West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Hack Wilson - real on June 20, 2013, 08:43:27 PM
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“It’s not very difficult for me. I’d go Magic, Jordan, Bird, Russell and Jabbar."
makes sense to me
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“It’s not very difficult for me. I’d go Magic, Jordan, Bird, Russell and Jabbar."
makes sense to me
Good picks indeed - still, I would change Russell for Olajuwon and Kareem for Wilt 8)
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yeah a straight forward all time team,
but when it comes to chemistry and how their talents and strengths come together as a team is another thing. and i mean an all time team that perfectly compliments each other.
but of course that team can excel, magic running point, micheal just weaving inside or posting up, bird on that weakside spotting up for 3's, kareem rolling around high post and russell anchroing down low.
but i rather have kobe :)
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good picks all around
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You can't knock it. Magic and Michael are obviously the greatest guards ever. The forwards, I always change, but Kobe cheated and put Russell as a forward. Makes sense, in today's league Russell would be a PF as he was 6'9", which is perfect PF size. Bird, well I hate to have two Celtics on that team, but Kareem anchoring the middle to make a second Laker, I'll accept it. LOL
One thing is for sure, no one scores on that team.
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i could replace Kareem with HAkeem 8)
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i could replace Kareem with HAkeem 8)
Even head to head when Kareem was washed up, he SCHOOLED Hakeem, back when Hakeem was still Akeem. It wasn't even close. People forget how great Kareem was. I mean, he was all time great, maybe better than Jordan, but I digress because that's comparing apples and oranges.
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i have no problems with anyone claimin kareem as the GOAT
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i have no problems with anyone claimin kareem as the GOAT
I know people HATE calling a center a GOAT, but when you think about it, he can average 30-34 ppg and 14-16 rpg in his prime, and on top of that he was one of, if not THE GOAT in college basketball, and his production carried to the NBA, where he was the dominate force in the 70's, he dominate an older Wilt when he was young, and a young Hakeem when he was old, and in his prime there was no one comparable. He is easily the best big man ever, and that's without question. Too bad Russell retired at the end of the '69 season, when Kareem was a senior at UCLA, because that would have really made him the bridge between the old guard big men of the 60's, and the stronger big men of the 80's. Kareem in the 70's really worked with a Laker team that had NOTHING, but the Lakers still dominated the Pacific Division and made the playoffs every year. He doesn't get his due at all.
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if Kareem played 10 years earlier he'd just be another great player who couldn't get passed Bill Russell the GOAT
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if Kareem played 10 years earlier he'd just be another great player who couldn't get passed Bill Russell the GOAT
if kareem played 10 years earlier, russell would be lucky to have 5 rings, foreal
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if Kareem played 10 years earlier he'd just be another great player who couldn't get passed Bill Russell the GOAT
if kareem played 10 years earlier, russell would be lucky to have 5 rings, foreal
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m239/floyda/HAHAHAHA.jpg)
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if Kareem played 10 years earlier he'd just be another great player who couldn't get passed Bill Russell the GOAT
Could Russell have stopped the skyhook?
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prime-Wilt versus prime-Kareem would be the ultimate match for the "greatest center in basketball history" to watch 8)
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if Kareem played 10 years earlier he'd just be another great player who couldn't get passed Bill Russell the GOAT
Could Russell have stopped the skyhook?
hakeem did, why not Bill?
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if Kareem played 10 years earlier he'd just be another great player who couldn't get passed Bill Russell the GOAT
Could Russell have stopped the skyhook?
hakeem did, why not Bill?
One, Hakeem never did; two Bill was at least 3 inches shorter than Hakeem.
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if Kareem played 10 years earlier he'd just be another great player who couldn't get passed Bill Russell the GOAT
Could Russell have stopped the skyhook?
hakeem did, why not Bill?
One, Hakeem never did; two Bill was at least 3 inches shorter than Hakeem.
Bill had mad hops
and Hakeem did and Wilt did as well. And Bill Willoughby.
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hack, serious question: does it make u mad when people regard kareem as the goat center?
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hack, serious question: does it make u mad when people regard kareem as the goat center?
i don't see many do that but i can't see how he was better than Russell or Wilt (unless you argue him over Wilt via championships and not pure physical capabilities and dominance). and personally I'll take Hakeem...Hakeem would have scored even more had he played with Magic and Oscar Robertson and that's a scary thought just knowing how damn good a scorer Hakeem was.
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Since you like head to head with Kobe/LeBron, here is head to head with Kareem vs. Hakeem. Up until Kareem's last two seasons, Kareem DOMINATED Hakeem. It wasn't even close. And he was an old man by then. There is no reason for Hakeem not to do well against that old of a player. But this goes to show that Kareem at his best could have beat Hakeem. There is no question, Kareem GOAT center.
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Since you like head to head with Kobe/LeBron, here is head to head with Kareem vs. Hakeem. Up until Kareem's last two seasons, Kareem DOMINATED Hakeem. It wasn't even close. And he was an old man by then. There is no reason for Hakeem not to do well against that old of a player. But this goes to show that Kareem at his best could have beat Hakeem. There is no question, Kareem GOAT center.
are you going to casually ignore the ass whooping Hakeem put down on Kareem in the playoffs? he was dropping 31, 11 rebounds and 4 blocks per game on the Lakers.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/1986.html
stick to arguing NIK lol
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Head to head, every game from 1985-1986 season. Remember, Kareem WAS FUCKIN' 38 YEARS OLD! Hakeem was 23. Kareem was 15 years older than Hakeem, and fading. He should have put up Shaq numbers at 38, when he averaged 9ppg, 5rpg and 1apg. Instead, against a rising center who was young and hungry, this is what Kareem did!
Game 1
Kareem 35p, 7r, 2a, 1b
Hakeem 29p, 12r, 1a, 1b
Game 2
Kareem 46p, 11r, 4a, 0b
Hakeem 18p, 14r, 0a, 0b
Game 3
Kareem 43p, 7r, 3a, 1b
Hakeem 21p, 10r, 2a, 2b
Game 4
Kareem 18p, 7r, 1a, 3b
Hakeem 25p, 11r, 0a, 4b
Game 5
Kareem 23p, 6r, 6a, 2b
Hakeem 34p, 8r, 5a, 2b
Playoffs
Game 1
Kareem 31p, 6r, 3a, 3b
Hakeem 28p, 16r, 3a, 4b
Game 2
Kareem 21p, 4r, 2a, 1b
Hakeem 22p, 13r, 2, 6b
Game 3
Kareem 33p, 4r, 6a, 5b
Hakeem 40p, 12r, 3a, 2b
Game 4
Kareem 24p, 7r, 3a, 2b
Hakeem 35p, 8r, 1a, 4b
Game 5
Kareem 26p, 13r, 3a, 1b
Hakeem 30p, 7r, 1a, 4b
So basically, at the beginning of the year, Kareem continued to dominate Hakeem, and somewhere in there Kareem started to get the upper hand on the old man. The point is that Kareem was FUCKIN' OLD! 38 Years old. At 38 years old, Kareem was averaging 12ppg, 7.5rpg, 1apg, 1.5bpg. Those are good stats for old Hakeem, but Kareem was a fuckin' beast going against one of the greatest young centers in league history. Kareem was dominating and then as he faded hanging with the best young centers in the league. And it's NOT like the 80's was a different league, Kareem was taking out the likes of Ewing, Hakeem, Moses Malone before Hakeem took over as center in Houston, Robert Parish. Kareem came in against Wilt and FUCKIN' DOMINATED.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/355765-reasons-why-i-think-wilt-chamberlain-is-better-than-kareem-abdul-jabbar
This was against an old Wilt, so we'll take that in consideration. But by that logic, Hakeem should have came in and DOMINATED Kareem. But he didn't. Kareem came out on top until he hit 38 and faded enough for Hakeem to go point for point with Kareem. Think of it. Kareem went to outscore Wilt 201-70 in 5 games, who does that? Kareem was the man.
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Hakeem averaged more points, rebounds and blocks in the playoffs against him that year and considering Hakeem didn't have vintage MAGIC JOHNSON passing him the ball it's obviously possible for old man Kareem to still score pretty easily. Kareem wasn't even pulling 7 rebounds a game in that series ::)
You are better off arguing that the 86 Lakers were simply scared of being embarrassed by the Celtics in the finals...that was a lethal Celtics team. Best one they had under the Bird era. I bet if Kareem had to face 1990's Hakeem he'd be begging for mercy.
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Hakeem averaged more points, rebounds and blocks in the playoffs against him that year and considering Hakeem didn't have vintage MAGIC JOHNSON passing him the ball it's obviously possible for old man Kareem to still score pretty easily. Kareem wasn't even pulling 7 rebounds a game in that series ::)
You are better off arguing that the 86 Lakers were simply scared of being embarrassed by the Celtics in the finals...that was a lethal Celtics team. Best one they had under the Bird era. I bet if Kareem had to face 1990's Hakeem he'd be begging for mercy.
If 1986 Kareem played against 1994 Hakeem, sure, but if 1975 Kareem was playing against 1994 Hakeem, I'd put all my money on Kareem. Kareem was washed up and still taking Hakeem to school That series, you have to remember, Kareem was 38 and he was hanging with Hakeem. He didn't have to be better than someone 15 years younger, he just had to keep up.
Plus remember, the Rockets had 6 players in double digit scoring that year. It wasn't like it was Kareem vs. the Lakers. Back then basketball was full of superteams, or what we'd call super teams. So it's a bit different than it is now. You can't argue weaker teammates, though Magic does help. Kareem was still killing it pre-Magic.
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hack, serious question: does it make u mad when people regard kareem as the goat center?
i don't see many do that but i can't see how he was better than Russell or Wilt (unless you argue him over Wilt via championships and not pure physical capabilities and dominance). and personally I'll take Hakeem...Hakeem would have scored even more had he played with Magic and Oscar Robertson and that's a scary thought just knowing how damn good a scorer Hakeem was.
http://www.hoopsmanifesto.com/articles/basketball/top-10-nba-centers-of-all-time.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestCenters
http://www.ranker.com/list/top-25-greatest-centers-of-all-time/hardtack
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1250943-nba-centers-the-top-10-of-all-time/page/12
http://www.syracuse.com/poliquin/index.ssf/2013/02/poliquin_the_top_5_nba_centers.html
now find me some that list hakeem as GOAT center...lol
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again NIK is all about his "lists"
are you not confident in your Laker agenda that you can't argue without a "list" by some "super duper expert" aka laker homer?
any list that argues against Russell being the best is silly...you don't get 11 rings and 5 MVP awards for no reason. That's more rings than Wilt and Kareem together.
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6 rings in kareems era=at least 12 in bill russell's
face it...no credible source will ever say hakeem>kareem, cuz thats just retarded
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now find me some that list hakeem as GOAT center...lol
Actually, there's plenty of dudes who consider Hakeem the best center ever - he's offensive arsenal of moves was just ridiculous, plus he had a footwork of a shooting guard/small forward. Shaq, Jordan and Reggie Miller all picked-up "The Dream" as the best big men, so it's def a conversation.
Anyone who picks the GOAT center from Russell/Wilt/Kareem/Hakeem/Shaq has a point in my opinion - they were all great players, but personally I think "The Dream" was the most underrated one of all those 5..
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now find me some that list hakeem as GOAT center...lol
Actually, there's plenty of dudes who consider Hakeem the best center ever - he's offensive arsenal of moves was just ridiculous, plus he had a footwork of a shooting guard/small forward. Shaq, Jordan and Reggie Miller all picked-up "The Dream" as the best big men, so it's def a conversation.
Anyone who picks the GOAT center from Russell/Wilt/Kareem/Hakeem/Shaq has a point in my opinion - they were all great players, but personally I think "The Dream" was the most underrated one of all those 5..
i have no problem with hakeem, he is indeed one of the GOATs....but if u check ANY top 10 center list, ull be hard pressed finding one with hakeem as the greatest ever. lists with kareem as the GOAT center are the most common, though.
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now find me some that list hakeem as GOAT center...lol
Actually, there's plenty of dudes who consider Hakeem the best center ever - he's offensive arsenal of moves was just ridiculous, plus he had a footwork of a shooting guard/small forward. Shaq, Jordan and Reggie Miller all picked-up "The Dream" as the best big men, so it's def a conversation.
Anyone who picks the GOAT center from Russell/Wilt/Kareem/Hakeem/Shaq has a point in my opinion - they were all great players, but personally I think "The Dream" was the most underrated one of all those 5..
i have no problem with hakeem, he is indeed one of the GOATs....but if u check ANY top 10 center list, ull be hard pressed finding one with hakeem as the greatest ever. lists with kareem as the GOAT center are the most common, though.
That's because Kareem's #1 on all-time scoring list and has 6 rings - that gives him the edge over other centers even tho, I still think Wilt was the better scorer and Russell was a better defender than Kareem.
As far as Hakeem goes, I think h was the most unique one of them all - dude had crazy mid-range game, can shoot fadeaway jumpers left and right and was by far the best big men defender ever (#1 in blocks and #8 in steals all-time).
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kareem in his prime was a much better scorer, rebounder, and was no slouch on d either (11 time nba all-defense).
as for wilt vs kareem, wilt had the 50 ppg season in 1962, but he shot 50% from the field, compared to kareem's 35 ppg season in 1972 on 57%, which i'd say is equally impressive, eras and efficiency considered.
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kareem in his prime was a much better scorer, rebounder, and was no slouch on d either (11 time nba all-defense).
as for wilt vs kareem, wilt had the 50 ppg season in 1962, but he shot 50% from the field, compared to kareem's 35 ppg season in 1972 on 57%, which i'd say is equally impressive, eras and efficiency considered.
Like I said, watching prime-Wilt going against prime-Kareem would be the ultimate battle for "The Greatest Center Of All-Time" spot. It's funny that you mentioned FG% in this argument in favor of Kareem, yet when it comes to Kobe-Jordan efficiency you immediately decline that stuff :)
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kareem in his prime was a much better scorer, rebounder, and was no slouch on d either (11 time nba all-defense).
as for wilt vs kareem, wilt had the 50 ppg season in 1962, but he shot 50% from the field, compared to kareem's 35 ppg season in 1972 on 57%, which i'd say is equally impressive, eras and efficiency considered.
Like I said, watching prime-Wilt going against prime-Kareem would be the ultimate battle for "The Greatest Center Of All-Time" spot. It's funny that you mentioned FG% in this argument in favor of Kareem, yet when it comes to Kobe-Jordan efficiency you immediately decline that stuff :)
kobe jordan is different...kobe shot more threes cuz he had better range, which automatically lowers overall efficiency. kareem actually had more range than wilt, which should make his efficiency lower, but it didn't. kareem was the ultimate scoring center....could hit free throws, too.
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kareem in his prime was a much better scorer, rebounder, and was no slouch on d either (11 time nba all-defense).
as for wilt vs kareem, wilt had the 50 ppg season in 1962, but he shot 50% from the field, compared to kareem's 35 ppg season in 1972 on 57%, which i'd say is equally impressive, eras and efficiency considered.
Like I said, watching prime-Wilt going against prime-Kareem would be the ultimate battle for "The Greatest Center Of All-Time" spot. It's funny that you mentioned FG% in this argument in favor of Kareem, yet when it comes to Kobe-Jordan efficiency you immediately decline that stuff :)
kobe jordan is different...kobe shot more threes cuz he had better range, which automatically lowers overall efficiency. kareem actually had more range than wilt, which should make his efficiency lower, but it didn't. kareem was the ultimate scoring center....could hit free throws, too.
Exactly - so you can't blame everything on range in every debate, that's my point. Range is one thing - shot selection and efficiency is another thing.
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kareem in his prime was a much better scorer, rebounder, and was no slouch on d either (11 time nba all-defense).
as for wilt vs kareem, wilt had the 50 ppg season in 1962, but he shot 50% from the field, compared to kareem's 35 ppg season in 1972 on 57%, which i'd say is equally impressive, eras and efficiency considered.
Like I said, watching prime-Wilt going against prime-Kareem would be the ultimate battle for "The Greatest Center Of All-Time" spot. It's funny that you mentioned FG% in this argument in favor of Kareem, yet when it comes to Kobe-Jordan efficiency you immediately decline that stuff :)
kobe jordan is different...kobe shot more threes cuz he had better range, which automatically lowers overall efficiency. kareem actually had more range than wilt, which should make his efficiency lower, but it didn't. kareem was the ultimate scoring center....could hit free throws, too.
Exactly - so you can't blame everything on range in every debate, that's my point. Range is one thing - shot selection and efficiency is another thing.
no, u cant....but when some1 shoots twice as many threes, it's safe to say their percentage will naturally be lower.
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6 rings in kareems era=at least 12 in bill russell's
in bill russell's what?
Russell owns 11 titles. Kareem won 6 despite playing with a HOF point guard for all his finals appearances...those two HOF PG's were both better than Cousy BTW.
where do you base these equations from? don't they cheapen the titles of the Mikan era Lakers? Is Kareem punished by never winning a title without Robertson or Magic? Those guys are both better than Bob Cousy.
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6 rings in kareems era=at least 12 in bill russell's
in bill russell's what?
Russell owns 11 titles. Kareem won 6 despite playing with a HOF point guard for all his finals appearances...those two HOF PG's were both better than Cousy BTW.
where do you base these equations from? don't they cheapen the titles of the Mikan era Lakers? Is Kareem punished by never winning a title without Robertson or Magic? Those guys are both better than Bob Cousy.
but in terms of era, cousy was head-and-shoulders above most the other guards in the league....thats why i said if u factor in eras, russell won when there was less team and less competition. either way, prime for prime, kareem shits on russell.
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that's a joke...Cousy only won 6 of 11 titles playing with Russell. Russell won 3 straight titles the years after Cousy left the team and 5 out of the last 6. Russell's career alone without Cousy equals as many rings as Magic or Kareem :D
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doesnt matter he always had a great cast, but it's the era that made them so great. less teams, less talent....the showtime lakers woulda swept those celtic teams 10/10 times.
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Dreams stock increases when you compare him against his contemporaries. He was the best center in the league during a time when the league was at its height with talented bigs.
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Dreams stock increases when you compare him against his contemporaries. He was the best center in the league during a time when the league was at its height with talented bigs.
Problem is that Kareem played head to head with Hakeem and it was to close to say Hakeem was better in his youth than Kareem in his late 30's. Kareem also played in the 80's, also in the height of the league, and he dominated as an old man.
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Dreams stock increases when you compare him against his contemporaries. He was the best center in the league during a time when the league was at its height with talented bigs.
Problem is that Kareem played head to head with Hakeem and it was to close to say Hakeem was better in his youth than Kareem in his late 30's. Kareem also played in the 80's, also in the height of the league, and he dominated as an old man.
Kareem was a shell of his self by the time Dream, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, Mutombo, Smits, Divac were rounding out. Hell, Sabonis came in a bit to late but had success.
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Sabonis came to the NBA after his prime sadly, i think because of political reasons. he was great.
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Sabonis came to the NBA after his prime sadly, i think because of political reasons. he was great.
America was robbed of Sabonis in his prime. Dude was a beast in international play. I didn't know the Blazers drafted him in 1986?!? He didn't play until 1995 in the US. Can you imagine Sabonis and Drexler vs. Jordan and Pippen in 1992. That would have been one of the best finals ever. Oh well. Sabonis is the wrench in it all.
Dreams stock increases when you compare him against his contemporaries. He was the best center in the league during a time when the league was at its height with talented bigs.
Problem is that Kareem played head to head with Hakeem and it was to close to say Hakeem was better in his youth than Kareem in his late 30's. Kareem also played in the 80's, also in the height of the league, and he dominated as an old man.
Kareem was a shell of his self by the time Dream, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, Mutombo, Smits, Divac were rounding out. Hell, Sabonis came in a bit to late but had success.
And yet, Kareem was averaging 17.5 ppg and 6.7 apg in 1986-1987, when Dream, Ewing, Laimbeer, The Chief and Moses Malone all played. "Cap" was the king of all centers, even in the 80's. And doing what he did, and being a "shell of himself" was still a great feat. The 1987-1988 and 88-89 seasons, he was 40 and 41 years old, and averaged 14 and 6, and 10 and 4, well only getting 28 and 20 minutes a game respectively. Yet Kareem was still banging and even scored 24 points and grapped 13 rebounds in the NBA Finals against Laimbeer in the game Magic Johnson got hurt in. It was in a losing effort, but he was 41 years old, playing for an NBA title and still hanging with the young guys, and going all out to lead the Lakers to a close game with their season on the line. Had Kareem been 31 instead of 41, there is no question the Lakers win that game and pull back into the series.
We act like Kareem was this ancient player, who was washed up in the 80's already. But he was so consistent that he still had great game in the 80's and was able to continue to play at a high level. With many players, we ask, what would happen if they played against each other, but Kareem did play against the greats of the 80's, and still dominated. Even Hakeen for a year and a half. That's why he's the GOAT. If he dominated Hakeem as an old man, imagine in his prime.
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=abdulka01
Kareem was dominant the first two years of Hakeems career. Then the stats turn, just about the time Sampson left Houston.
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=abdulka01
Kareem was dominant the first two years of Hakeems career. Then the stats turn, just about the time Sampson left Houston.
but u dont honestly believe hakeem was better than kareem, do u?
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=abdulka01
Kareem was dominant the first two years of Hakeems career. Then the stats turn, just about the time Sampson left Houston.
Also about the time Kareem turned 39. Amazing how that worked out.
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=abdulka01
Kareem was dominant the first two years of Hakeems career. Then the stats turn, just about the time Sampson left Houston.
Also about the time Kareem turned 39. Amazing how that worked out.
My original point is that Dream played in the leagues deepest talent for the center position. Kareem was only around for the genesis.
Now back to NIK, no I don't think that Dream is better than Kareem. Kareem's career both collegiate and professional is tops.