West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Sccit on September 23, 2013, 11:08:06 AM
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Magic Johnson delivers again
By Jon Becker for the Daily News
Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2013 8:00 am
Basketball legend-turned business mogul Magic Johnson was in the area Friday to lend his considerable clout to Saginaw Promise, a scholarship program aimed at helping students in impoverished communities attend college.
Johnson, flashing his signature megawatt smile and displaying the charisma that allows him to easily capture a room, visited the Dow Corning Corp., where he talked about a variety of topics — including his Hall of Fame NBA career — with an audience of some 125 of the company’s employees and 20 students from the city of Saginaw. Not content to rest on his laurels, which include five NBA championships as the orchestrator of the Showtime Lakers of the 1980s and myriad business successes since his playing days ended, Johnson travels the country preaching the value of education and “putting people of color to work.” He hopes his own story can serve as inspiration to young people.
“I was just like you. Growing up poor doesn’t mean you have to have poor dreams,” said Johnson, who grew up in Lansing in a working class family with six sisters and three brothers. “I was the first to go to college. Education can change everything.”
Johnson, mindful of so many professional athletes who squandered their fortunes and were left ill-prepared for life after the limelight, was determined not to go that route. A fierce competitor who said he doesn’t like to lose at anything, he sought advice from accomplished businessmen and came up with a plan.
“The thing is, I’m a winner,” he said. “My whole thing is about winning. I wanted to create change in Urban America. I thought we needed more theaters, so I brought in Magic Johnson theaters. That’s how it (Magic Johnson Enterprises) all started.”
Yet before he became Magic, the revolutionary 6’9” point guard who would go on to win championships in high school, college and the NBA, Earvin Johnson was a kid with a reading problem. Even though by eighth grade he had already developed a reputation for his talents on the basketball floor, a counselor said young Earvin was in for a rude awakening.
“She told me I was a great basketball player but I was never going to college because I was in eighth grade reading at a fifth grade level,” Magic recounted. “I went to summer school and that was tough because other kids were going swimming and playing. My grades turned around, though, and when Michigan State came calling I was accepted. It was her pulling me aside and telling me I had a reading problem that saved me. It’s important that I give back because someone helped me.”
For those in attendance who wanted some sports talk mixed in with business acumen, Magic Johnson didn’t disappoint. When asked who would win a game of one-one between him and Michael Jordan, he didn’t hesitate.
“Michael would win. That’s not my game. My game is assisting, setting up my teammates. Michael’s the greatest one-on-one player. I couldn’t go out and drop 60 like him, but he couldn’t run a team like I could.”
Forever linked with Larry Bird dating back to the 1979 NCAA Championship game that saw Magic lead his MSU Spartans to victory over Bird’s Indiana State Sycamores, a rivalry the two carried over to the NBA, Johnson said, “Larry Bird and Michael Jordan were the two biggest trash talkers ever. But they could back it up. I knew Larry Bird was shooting 2,000 shots in the gym during the summer, so I shot 5,000. He made me a better player and better person.”
Johnson, part of a group who purchased the Los Angeles Dodgers in 2012, said he’d love to see a Dodgers-Detroit Tigers World Series.
“I was a huge Tigers fan growing up,” he said. “I can tell you all about Freehan, Cash, Kaline, Lolich, Gates Brown …”
He also said Detroit Pistons owner Tom Gores is doing a splendid job and, with off-season acquisitions and the development of young players like Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe, predicts the club will make the playoffs this season, as a seventh or eighth seed.
“They’ve got some high-flyers. They’re going to be an exciting team to watch.”
Like his rivalry with Larry Legend, Johnson said companies too can grow from their competitors.
“Your rival can make you a better company. Bird and Jordan made their teammates better. The thing today is you have to over-deliver to customers. That’s what we do and we’re the No. 1 brand in Urban America.”
Johnson promised to make a Great Lakes Loons game next season (“Will I get good seats?”) and implored students not to be deterred by trying circumstances.
“I was like you growing up poor in Lansing,” he said. “We had the peanut butter but we didn’t have the jelly. We had the Kool-Aid but we didn’t have the sugar. Make sure you understand that you’re going to face challenges. It’s how you react to those challenges that matters.”
In April Johnson donated $123,000 to Saginaw Promise. When Dow Corning became a corporate partner in the student scholarship program by donating $10,000, the former NBA MVP said he’d in turn speak to local students and employees of the company.
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dbj7n?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nba
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Elano likes these two because they both have gay, black sons.
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Elano likes these two because they both have gay, black sons.
mj has a gay son too? smh
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I mean in a sense that's fair to say. That underlined and bolded sentence says it all.
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in essence, he's saying he's the better overall player
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which is rather laughable
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lol u dont know shit about magic if u think thats laughable
this is a guy who scored 42 points as a rookie in a close-out finals game when starting at center for an injured kareem...he played center in high school and was always a natural scorer before even becoming a point guard... but because he became so good at running a team, he took a step back and became the greatest teammate in the history of the game... magic could score at will if he truly wanted to. only in 1987 was he finally asked to become a primary scorer..thats close to 10 years before he got his chance 2 showcase his true individual abilities.... his all-around game was lightyears ahead of michael's.
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magic is an all time great...top 5 for sure. but the only people on the planet that take him over MJ are you, magic himself and Jay Mohr. you don't need to tell me what he did in high school because t hat doesn't prove a thing lol
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magic is an all time great...top 5 for sure. but the only people on the planet that take him over MJ are you, magic himself and Jay Mohr. you don't need to tell me what he did in high school because t hat doesn't prove a thing lol
what i do need to tell u is that he had 5 titles, and only played about 3/5ths of his career.
woulda undeniably had more had he not contracted HIV
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and MJ retired early twice...wrong guy to argue against.
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and MJ retired early twice...wrong guy to argue against.
which in essence, helped him for the 2nd threepeat, considering it gave him a breather and a chance to return to the game refreshed, with less mileage on his legs than ur average player that age...
like i said, if u truly love basketball, do urself the favor and study more magic.
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gave him a breather? lmao
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gave him a breather? lmao
yea..that break was a chance for him to take a rest and come back re-energized...what the fuc is so funny?
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in essence, he's saying he's the better overall player
Pretty much a better distributor. Hence "my game is assisting".
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in essence, he's saying he's the better overall player
Pretty much a better distributor. Hence "my game is assisting".
better overall leader, extension of coach on the floor, etc....better at running a team in general.
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Elano likes these two because they both have gay, black sons.
I didn't know their sons were gay, but obviously you got a radar for the fags since you're one of them :loser:
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gave him a breather? lmao
yea..that break was a chance for him to take a rest and come back re-energized...what the fuc is so funny?
Michael wasen't tired physically, when he retired for the first time - he was rather "burned out", lost his love for the game itself and needed a step back.
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gave him a breather? lmao
yea..that break was a chance for him to take a rest and come back re-energized...what the fuc is so funny?
Michael wasen't tired physically, when he retired for the first time - he was rather "burned out", lost his love for the game itself and needed a step back.
Either way, the break helped him
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gave him a breather? lmao
yea..that break was a chance for him to take a rest and come back re-energized...what the fuc is so funny?
Michael wasen't tired physically, when he retired for the first time - he was rather "burned out", lost his love for the game itself and needed a step back.
Either way, the break helped him
Not quite. That's debatable - he retired in his prime and wasen't the same player coming back.
Have he not retired, the Bulls could've won 8 or maybe even 9 tittles in a row, had they not break-up in 1999. The truth is - we will never know, so let's stop it right there.
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Magic was 5-11 as a Coach, I fully realize that his record was only through 16 games, but it was a real bad 16 games. As an executive, what did he really do? He owned 5% of the Lakers. All direction came from Dr. Buss or Jerry West (later Mitch Kupchak) in terms of running the team.
Jordan has been terrible. He's made some very bad decisions as an Executive and Owner.
Both of them need to call Larry Bird up. He was a pretty good Coach and a good Executive, too.
As far as what would have happened had Magic never tested HIV Postive.. no one knows. What we do know is that the team hovered at or around .500 for the 3 years following Magic's retirement. They were bounced in the 1st round twice and missed the playoffs all together in 94. They were not that good.
In the year after Jordan retired the team was good enough to push the Knicks to 7 games in the 2nd round. The next season, Jordan played in 17 regular season games and was still getting his legs back after close to 2 years of not playing. They took the Magic to 6 games in the 2nd round.
Add a healthy Magic and a full season of Michael to those teams. I'll give the Lakers a shot at the WCF, but I don't know that they were good enough to beat those Blazers or Suns teams. In the 93-94 season, I don't think that Laker teams make it out of the first round. Those Bulls in 93-94 & 94-95 make it to the Finals, no doubt and according to Phil:
"Jackson agreed with the argument that the Rockets' championships were tainted because Michael Jordan was out of the league for the first of their title seasons and much of the next. 'Definitely,' Jackson said. 'Without a doubt. Clearly, if the Bulls were whole, we would have won. It's pretty much registered by now. When Michael played, we won the championship.'"
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Magic was 5-11 as a Coach, I fully realize that his record was only through 16 games, but it was a real bad 16 games. As an executive, what did he really do? He owned 5% of the Lakers. All direction came from Dr. Buss or Jerry West (later Mitch Kupchak) in terms of running the team.
Jordan has been terrible. He's made some very bad decisions as an Executive and Owner.
Both of them need to call Larry Bird up. He was a pretty good Coach and a good Executive, too.
As far as what would have happened had Magic never tested HIV Postive.. no one knows. What we do know is that the team hovered at or around .500 for the 3 years following Magic's retirement. They were bounced in the 1st round twice and missed the playoffs all together in 94. They were not that good.
In the year after Jordan retired the team was good enough to push the Knicks to 7 games in the 2nd round. The next season, Jordan played in 17 regular season games and was still getting his legs back after close to 2 years of not playing. They took the Magic to 6 games in the 2nd round.
Add a healthy Magic and a full season of Michael to those teams. I'll give the Lakers a shot at the WCF, but I don't know that they were good enough to beat those Blazers or Suns teams. In the 93-94 season, I don't think that Laker teams make it out of the first round. Those Bulls in 93-94 & 94-95 make it to the Finals, no doubt and according to Phil:
"Jackson agreed with the argument that the Rockets' championships were tainted because Michael Jordan was out of the league for the first of their title seasons and much of the next. 'Definitely,' Jackson said. 'Without a doubt. Clearly, if the Bulls were whole, we would have won. It's pretty much registered by now. When Michael played, we won the championship.'"
LOL I DONT THINK U GET WHAT HE MEANT BY RUNNING A TEAM
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gave him a breather? lmao
yea..that break was a chance for him to take a rest and come back re-energized...what the fuc is so funny?
Michael wasen't tired physically, when he retired for the first time - he was rather "burned out", lost his love for the game itself and needed a step back.
Either way, the break helped him
Not quite. That's debatable - he retired in his prime and wasen't the same player coming back.
Have he not retired, the Bulls could've won 8 or maybe even 9 tittles in a row, had they not break-up in 1999. The truth is - we will never know, so let's stop it right there.
I HIGHLY DOUBT IT...I THINK THE GENERAL CONSENSUS IS THAT THE BREAK WAS GOOD FOR MJ AND THAT IT HELPED HIM REMAIN A PRIME PLAYER UNTIL THE END OF HIS CAREER...BUT U COULD ARGUE THE OTHER WAY, TOO. IT'S JUST HIGHLY UNLIKELY, IMO.
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Bird is a "good" executive? He's turned Indiana into the second best team in the East...possibly the NBA. He's a God.
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gave him a breather? lmao
yea..that break was a chance for him to take a rest and come back re-energized...what the fuc is so funny?
Michael wasen't tired physically, when he retired for the first time - he was rather "burned out", lost his love for the game itself and needed a step back.
Either way, the break helped him
Not quite. That's debatable - he retired in his prime and wasen't the same player coming back.
Have he not retired, the Bulls could've won 8 or maybe even 9 tittles in a row, had they not break-up in 1999. The truth is - we will never know, so let's stop it right there.
I HIGHLY DOUBT IT...I THINK THE GENERAL CONSENSUS IS THAT THE BREAK WAS GOOD FOR MJ AND THAT IT HELPED HIM REMAIN A PRIME PLAYER UNTIL THE END OF HIS CAREER...BUT U COULD ARGUE THE OTHER WAY, TOO. IT'S JUST HIGHLY UNLIKELY, IMO.
I go with what Phil said - it would be a great battle between Chicago and Houston (would love to watch it). It could go both ways, but I do believe the Bulls could pull it off. I do agree, that when MJ came back in 1995, he had a fresh mindset and some of the media pressure from late 93 was off his back, tho.
Still, statistic-wise and career-wise - both of his retirements did more bad than good in my opinion.
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gave him a breather? lmao
yea..that break was a chance for him to take a rest and come back re-energized...what the fuc is so funny?
Michael wasen't tired physically, when he retired for the first time - he was rather "burned out", lost his love for the game itself and needed a step back.
Either way, the break helped him
Not quite. That's debatable - he retired in his prime and wasen't the same player coming back.
Have he not retired, the Bulls could've won 8 or maybe even 9 tittles in a row, had they not break-up in 1999. The truth is - we will never know, so let's stop it right there.
I HIGHLY DOUBT IT...I THINK THE GENERAL CONSENSUS IS THAT THE BREAK WAS GOOD FOR MJ AND THAT IT HELPED HIM REMAIN A PRIME PLAYER UNTIL THE END OF HIS CAREER...BUT U COULD ARGUE THE OTHER WAY, TOO. IT'S JUST HIGHLY UNLIKELY, IMO.
I go with what Phil said - it would be a great battle between Chicago and Houston (would love to watch it). It could go both ways, but I do believe the Bulls could pull it off. I do agree, that when MJ came back in 1995, he had a fresh mindset and some of the media pressure from late 93 was off his back, tho.
Still, statistic-wise and career-wise - both of his retirements did more bad than good in my opinion.
it can be debated, but at the end of the day, we dont know...what we do know is that he CHOSE to take a break.
with Magic, it's a lil different...he was FORCED to retire in his prime, at the age of 31, after a Finals appearance in the first season of Mike Dunleavy's coaching career....when Michael was 31, he only had 3 of his 6 titles. history would be a lot different if it wasn't for magic's forced retirement.
and the fact that the Lakers completely fell off the radar once Magic retired, while the Bulls were still contending when Michael retired, only further proves Magic's statement of him being much more important in terms of running a team. the Lakers suffered much more without Magic than the Bulls did without Michael.
Magic=GOAT....only Kobe winning 7 titles can change that.
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Magic=GOAT.
I thought there was ten GOATs who are all interchangeable?
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Magic=GOAT.
I thought there was ten GOATs who are all interchangeable?
Truedat
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Magic isn't even better than Larry Bird, how can he be the greatest?
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Magic isn't even better than Larry Bird, how can he be the greatest?
lmao magic started beating on larry in college and continued the tradition all throughout his career....
bird's up there, tho
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in essence, he's saying he's the better overall player
which is blasphemy. Jordan was better in every way. But Jordan didn't need to throw pussy assists when he could run down the lane 1-5 and just start dunking on niccaz!!
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in essence, he's saying he's the better overall player
which is blasphemy. Jordan was better in every way. But Jordan didn't need to throw pussy assists when he could run down the lane 1-5 and just start dunking on niccaz!!
lol hold up
magic was a far better team player who was much more versatile on offense.. a 6'9" guy that could rebound like a big man and bring it up the court/run the break better than any traditional point guard ever..and those "pussy assists" aka a bitchmade way of referring to magic's GOAT passing game was what made the Lakers the premier team in the 80's and what helped extend Kareem's legendary career for an extra 5 years, at least.
michael jordan was able to go 1-on-5, yes...but he was not able to make those around him better and run the show the way magic did, and thats another dimension of being great. so naah, it aint blasphemy, and if u followed magic's career, then u'd know that already.
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in essence, he's saying he's the better overall player
which is blasphemy. Jordan was better in every way. But Jordan didn't need to throw pussy assists when he could run down the lane 1-5 and just start dunking on niccaz!!
lol hold up
magic was a far better team player who was much more versatile on offense.. a 6'9" guy that could rebound like a big man and bring it up the court/run the break better than any traditional point guard ever..and those "pussy assists" aka a bitchmade way of referring to magic's GOAT passing game was what made the Lakers the premier team in the 80's and what helped extend Kareem's legendary career for an extra 5 years, at least.
michael jordan was able to go 1-on-5, yes...but he was not able to make those around him better and run the show the way magic did, and thats another dimension of being great. so naah, it aint blasphemy, and if u followed magic's career, then u'd know that already.
Come on homie... you were what, 2, 3 years old when Magic was doin his thing? So you can't tell me about following his career. At least I was old enough to catch the last couple years of his career as an active fan of the NBA. But bottom liine is niether of us were really old enough to know Magic's career that well...
And I still stand by my statement. I don't know another way to say it, but I will try. It's impossible to get an assist and score at the same time. You have to choose one or another. And a real-ass G is gonna go ahead and score and take the glory like a true G should.. while a pussy ass - chearleading nicca is gonna be like, "Yeaaah, go team, I will pass you the ball so everyone can touch it and we can all have fun and share in this joyful experience"... naw nicca, fuck that.. Jordan is taking that shit and scoring when Paxson and Longley and the rest of dem niccaz didn't have the balls to sieze da moment
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NIK was like 4 or 5 when Magic retired...clearly enough to be 100% sure about everything Magic/Jordan related :laugh:
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NIK was like 4 or 5 when Magic retired...clearly enough to be 100% sure about everything Magic/Jordan related :laugh:
Shit.. when I was 5 years old I remember the older heads on the block used to call me Danny Manning and my brother Michael Jordan. I used to argue with people that Danny Manning was better than Jordan and didn't even know the difference between NBA and College. I also thought the WWF was real and that Rocky Balboa was the real heavyweight boxing Champion.
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in essence, he's saying he's the better overall player
which is blasphemy. Jordan was better in every way. But Jordan didn't need to throw pussy assists when he could run down the lane 1-5 and just start dunking on niccaz!!
lol hold up
magic was a far better team player who was much more versatile on offense.. a 6'9" guy that could rebound like a big man and bring it up the court/run the break better than any traditional point guard ever..and those "pussy assists" aka a bitchmade way of referring to magic's GOAT passing game was what made the Lakers the premier team in the 80's and what helped extend Kareem's legendary career for an extra 5 years, at least.
michael jordan was able to go 1-on-5, yes...but he was not able to make those around him better and run the show the way magic did, and thats another dimension of being great. so naah, it aint blasphemy, and if u followed magic's career, then u'd know that already.
Come on homie... you were what, 2, 3 years old when Magic was doin his thing? So you can't tell me about following his career. At least I was old enough to catch the last couple years of his career as an active fan of the NBA. But bottom liine is niether of us were really old enough to know Magic's career that well...
And I still stand by my statement. I don't know another way to say it, but I will try. It's impossible to get an assist and score at the same time. You have to choose one or another. And a real-ass G is gonna go ahead and score and take the glory like a true G should.. while a pussy ass - chearleading nicca is gonna be like, "Yeaaah, go team, I will pass you the ball so everyone can touch it and we can all have fun and share in this joyful experience"... naw nicca, fuck that.. Jordan is taking that shit and scoring when Paxson and Longley and the rest of dem niccaz didn't have the balls to sieze da moment
lol that's great and all but I've followed magic through watchin old tapes, reading books, documentaries, etc... I'm sure u know more about Eldridge cleaver than I do, but that's from reading his shit. U didn't have to be alive at the time to understand his greatness.. And you, homie, do not understand the greatness of Magic Johnson
Thing is, magic could score AND pass... Its not like he was a pass only player. He just did what it took for his team to win, and that was fill every role based on what was needed. The Showtime Lakers would shit on the 90s Bulls wit the quickness.
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lol that's great and all but I've followed magic through watchin old tapes, reading books, documentaries, etc... I'm sure u know more about Eldridge cleaver than I do, but that's from reading his shit. U didn't have to be alive at the time to understand his greatness..
point taken (although I've also gone back and watched a lot of old film)
And you, homie, do not understand the greatness of Magic Johnson
I understand his greatness. And we can talk about his greatness all day as long as you leave Jordan out of it. I'm cool with Jordan, Magic, and Birds names being grouped together because that was my favorite era of all time... but it's blasphemy to start saying that Magic was equal or better than Jordan in any way.
Thing is, magic could score AND pass... Its not like he was a pass only player. He just did what it took for his team to win, and that was fill every role based on what was needed. The Showtime Lakers would shit on the 90s Bulls wit the quickness.
You mean like they shit on Jordan and the Bulls in the 91 Finals? In the words of Jordan, "Sorry Showtime"
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so basically you've learned about Magic from biased documentaries? makes sense Nikki
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lol that's great and all but I've followed magic through watchin old tapes, reading books, documentaries, etc... I'm sure u know more about Eldridge cleaver than I do, but that's from reading his shit. U didn't have to be alive at the time to understand his greatness..
point taken (although I've also gone back and watched a lot of old film)
And you, homie, do not understand the greatness of Magic Johnson
I understand his greatness. And we can talk about his greatness all day as long as you leave Jordan out of it. I'm cool with Jordan, Magic, and Birds names being grouped together because that was my favorite era of all time... but it's blasphemy to start saying that Magic was equal or better than Jordan in any way.
Thing is, magic could score AND pass... Its not like he was a pass only player. He just did what it took for his team to win, and that was fill every role based on what was needed. The Showtime Lakers would shit on the 90s Bulls wit the quickness.
You mean like they shit on Jordan and the Bulls in the 91 Finals? In the words of Jordan, "Sorry Showtime"
magic is the GOAT in my eyes, but i have no problem with jordan bein called GOAT either...and the only thing that's blasphemy is denying magic had better court-vision, passing game, was the better facilitator, rebounder, more efficient and was just more of an all-around player on offense than jordan. he did more for the lakers than mj did for the bulls...like i said, he single-handedly won the championship as a rookie, scoring 42 points when forced to replace kareem in the starting line-up..imagine if he was thrusted into a role like jordan's from day 1, where he was forced to be a score first player. he would be far more glorified as an individual...but the fact remains, magic did things on the court that couldn't be duplicated, by any1...as for 91 finals, Lakers won game 1 and were favorites to win the series. next thing u know, worthy got injured in game 1 and the rest was history...but still, that was post-showtime lakers....showtime lakers from the mid-80s with kareem woulda destroyed any bulls team, it wouldn't even be fair...trust me.
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so basically you've learned about Magic from biased documentaries? makes sense Nikki
what are u supposed 2 be, like a spectator or somethin?
either join the discussion or stfu godamn lmao
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which is blasphemy. Jordan was better in every way. But Jordan didn't need to throw pussy assists when he could run down the lane 1-5 and just start dunking on niccaz!!
Dude, chill the fuck out and show some respect to the Greatest Point Guard ever. Comparing Magic to Jordan makes no sense - they are different players with different style of play. These two along with Larry Bird are a part of NBA's "Holy Trinity" - if it wasen't for them, this league will be nowhere near where it is now. They made the game of basketball what it is today.
i have no problem with jordan bein called GOAT either...
It's funny you said that, after trying to downplay MJ's accomplishments in every thread possible around here :)
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which is blasphemy. Jordan was better in every way. But Jordan didn't need to throw pussy assists when he could run down the lane 1-5 and just start dunking on niccaz!!
Dude, chill the fuck out and show some respect to the Greatest Point Guard ever. Comparing Magic to Jordan makes no sense - they are different players with different style of play. These two along with Larry Bird are a part of NBA's "Holy Trinity" - if it wasen't for them, this league will be nowhere near where it is now. They made the game of basketball what it is today.
i have no problem with jordan bein called GOAT either...
It's funny you said that, after trying to downplay MJ's accomplishments in every thread possible around here :)
The only problem I have is that the marketting media has brainwashed the masses and got the sheeple thinkin Jordan is on a level of his own, when he's really just a great in a line of greats who were all the absolute best at what they did
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NIK would believe nazi propaganda if it somehow mentions Kobe and Magic are better than Jordan
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NIK would believe nazi propaganda if it somehow mentions Kobe and Magic are better than Jordan
lol u ever heard the outro to dubee's "my thang"? thats about u, brobro
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I think the most interesting part of where this quote goes & those who support Magic > MJ is...
Pretty much if you went through this thread & replaced "Magic" with LeBron & "MJ" with Kobe, it would be pretty much the same discussion. Just kind of a funny angle coming from NIK. The only difference is if you did replace those names, the ball-distribution & leadership, which makes "Magic better than MJ" is somehow, some way, wildly & awkwardly changed to "deferring". I don't plan on spending countless threads this 2014 season debating about LeBron's greatness, it's all but proven...I just don't understand the inconsistency of Magic's attributes (that Magic himself...and countless others...admits LeBron has) are all but negatives when you change the name to "James".
But in essence, from this thread & it's points, you can say LeBron > Kobe...and LeBron scores better than Magic & is a better defender...so let's just all accept the true GOAT. 8)
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I think the most interesting part of where this quote goes & those who support Magic > MJ is...
Pretty much if you went through this thread & replaced "Magic" with LeBron & "MJ" with Kobe, it would be pretty much the same discussion. Just kind of a funny angle coming from NIK. The only difference is if you did replace those names, the ball-distribution & leadership, which makes "Magic better than MJ" is somehow, some way, wildly & awkwardly changed to "deferring". I don't plan on spending countless threads this 2014 season debating about LeBron's greatness, it's all but proven...I just don't understand the inconsistency of Magic's attributes (that Magic himself...and countless others...admits LeBron has) are all but negatives when you change the name to "James".
But in essence, from this thread & it's points, you can say LeBron > Kobe...and LeBron scores better than Magic & is a better defender...so let's just all accept the true GOAT. 8)
yea...only magic has 5 rings in a shortened career, which can rival mj's count, while lebron still has 1 1/2
lebron's passing, facilitating, and overall leadership game is also NOWHERE near magic's.....nice try, tho
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You can't possibly say that. LeBron score ten more PPG, so the assist numbers balance out if you want to go statistically & as for "whose a better passer"...that's all subjective..."leadership & making others better"...pure ungradable intangible when comparing those two. How can you TRULY say whose better? Magic had WAY more help & WAY more of a complete team than LeBron does now....unless you're going to sink THAT low & say Bosh & Wade are better than Worthy & Kareem.
This is getting off topic anyway. I can understand those who aren't willing to say James has eclipsed Magic's accomplishments...but pure skill set it's identical...apparently enough to eclipse Jordan & those who played like him (Kobe).
Also the ring argument progressively is becoming more & more of a childish cop out to me. The fuck does it have to do with the skill set of player v. player & who has the better one? It's like saying Derek Fisher is a better shooter than Ray Allen because he has more rings. No one is asking whose accomplished more in the eyes of history...it's all about whose the better pure player.
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You can't possibly say that. LeBron score ten more PPG, so the assist numbers balance out if you want to go statistically & as for "whose a better passer"...that's all subjective..."leadership & making others better"...pure ungradable intangible when comparing those two. How can you TRULY say whose better? Magic had WAY more help & WAY more of a complete team than LeBron does now....unless you're going to sink THAT low & say Bosh & Wade are better than Worthy & Kareem.
This is getting off topic anyway. I can understand those who aren't willing to say James has eclipsed Magic's accomplishments...but pure skill set it's identical...apparently enough to eclipse Jordan & those who played like him (Kobe).
Also the ring argument progressively is becoming more & more of a childish cop out to me. The fuck does it have to do with the skill set of player v. player & who has the better one? It's like saying Derek Fisher is a better shooter than Ray Allen because he has more rings. No one is asking whose accomplished more in the eyes of history...it's all about whose the better pure player.
just stop
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The only problem I have is that the marketting media has brainwashed the masses and got the sheeple thinkin Jordan is on a level of his own, when he's really just a great in a line of greats who were all the absolute best at what they did
You can say the same thing about today's media brainwashing current viewers about Kobe, Lebron and other players being greater than Jordan, Shaq and stars of yesterday.
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It's true though. When it's clear you can't deny Bron's Hall of Fame skill, you just turn to rings.
Hence the example of Derek and Ray. It's like downplaying Allen's shooting ability by saying "yeah...but Fisher has more rings".
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The only problem I have is that the marketting media has brainwashed the masses and got the sheeple thinkin Jordan is on a level of his own, when he's really just a great in a line of greats who were all the absolute best at what they did
You can say the same thing about today's media brainwashing current viewers about Kobe, Lebron and other players being greater than Jordan, Shaq and stars of yesterday.
LEBRON, YES...KOBE, NO. KOBE IS ACTUALLY DOWNPLAYED BY THE MEDIA, AND IT'S BEEN LIKE THAT EVER SINCE THE RAPE CASE.
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It's true though. When it's clear you can't deny Bron's Hall of Fame skill, you just turn to rings.
Hence the example of Derek and Ray. It's like downplaying Allen's shooting ability by saying "yeah...but Fisher has more rings".
THERES A REASON I TOLD U TO STOP..AND IF U REALLY NEED ME TO BREAK IT DOWN FOR U, THEN HERE U GO:
THE REASON THAT ANALOGY IS COMPLETELY RETARDED IS BECAUSE WHEN UR A LEADER OF UR TEAM, WINNING RINGS MAKES OR BREAKS U...IT DEFINES UR LEGACY AND GREATNESS, NOT UR SKILLSET. SHOOTING IS A SKILLSET, WHICH HAS NOTHIN TO DO WITH UR WILL TO WIN AND ABILITY TO CARRY A TEAM TO THE PROMISE LAND. TO TOP IT OFF, DEREK FISHER IS A ROLE PLAYER..WINNING RINGS HAS PRETTY MUCH NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW GOOD A SHOOTER HE IS, AND BECAUSE THE LAKERS WERE NEVER HIS TEAM, THOSE RINGS DO NOT HELP ESTABLISH HIM AS A GREAT LEADER WHO TOOK IT UPON HIMSELF TO PUT HIS TEAM ON HIS BACK TO WIN IT ALL. WHAT ELSE?
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Again, I said it in my post above. It's not "legacy" I'm talking about. It's who is the better player. If you talk pure "legacy" and "greatness" then MJ is truly untouchable. Jordan's legacy is flawless. Even if Kobe and Bron both walk out with seven, MJ will have the greater "legacy". So it's a pretty silly way to look at things.
You always grade intangibles that you can't really prove. It's just a cop out. Like three straight Finals appearances, two wins, two Final MVPs and the favorite to do it again for a threepeat. What about that is a knock on his character? Let me guess...he "defers" and gets his teammates involved...the same as Magic. The same that makes Magic better overall than Jordan lol.
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Again, I said it in my post above. It's not "legacy" I'm talking about. It's who is the better player. If you talk pure "legacy" and "greatness" then MJ is truly untouchable. Jordan's legacy is flawless. Even if Kobe and Bron both walk out with seven, MJ will have the greater "legacy". So it's a pretty silly way to look at things.
You always grade intangibles that you can't really prove. It's just a cop out. Like three straight Finals appearances, two wins, two Final MVPs and the favorite to do it again for a threepeat. What about that is a knock on his character? Let me guess...he "defers" and gets his teammates involved...the same as Magic. The same that makes Magic better overall than Jordan lol.
BUT LEADING A TEAM TO THE PROMISE LAND DOES HAVE TO DO WITH HOW GOOD YOU ARE...FOR INSTANCE, IF LEBRON WAS BETTER, HE WOULDA WON WITH CLEVELAND. THERES NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THOSE 60+ WIN CAV TEAMS COULDA WON IT ALL..THEY WERE DEFENSIVE BEASTS AND FAVORITES TO WIN PRETTY MUCH ANY SERIES THEY WENT INTO...SO IF LEBRON WAS A STRONGER PLAYER IN THAT POINT IN HIS CAREER, HE'D HAVE MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS, HENCE WHY RINGS ARE TELLING OF HOW GREAT U ARE AS A PLAYER - WHEN UR THE LEADER OF UR TEAM, AS OPPOSED TO A ROLE PLAYER WHO ONLY PLAYS A MINOR ROLE IN WINNING THOSE RINGS. IT'S THE ULTIMATE GOAL IN PLAYING, AND THATS ALL THERE REALLY IS TO IT.
AND NOTHING IS REALLY PROVABLE...STATS ARE BASICALLY KEPT FOR IDIOTS WHO DONT UNDERSTAND WHATS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES - THE GAME. IT'S THE OBJECTIVE EYE + HOW MANY TIMES U WERE ABLE TO WIN IT ALL THAT TELL EXACTLY WHO U REALLY ARE IN THIS GAME.
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NIK, we all know that even if LeBron would finish his career with 10 straight rings, you would still said he's nowhere near Kobe's level :)
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Lol. Daniel Gibson. Anderson Varejao. Stop. Even today I'd take the cast Kobe had in both teams he made a run in the Finals with, MJ's Bulls and Magic's roster over the current Heat roster. But this levels the playing field of what he can do with a proper cast.
Very silly. Kidd better than Stockton? Dirk better than Malone? Can you really seeing yourself saying Chauncey Billups was better than Kyrie if he keeps improving, but fails to win in ten years?
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Lol. Daniel Gibson. Anderson Varejao. Stop. Even today I'd take the cast Kobe had in both teams he made a run in the Finals with, MJ's Bulls and Magic's roster over the current Heat roster. But this levels the playing field of what he can do with a proper cast.
Very silly. Kidd better than Stockton? Dirk better than Malone? Can you really seeing yourself saying Chauncey Billups was better than Kyrie if he keeps improving, but fails to win in ten years?
yes, lets make fun of anderson vareajo like he's not an all-defensive player who averaged 14 and 14 last year....good one. you seriously need to stop makin those cav teams out to be the kwame brown-smush parker laker teams, cuz it aint even close to bein the case. if they were as bad as u claim, they woulda never been favorites and atop espn's power rankings going into every season...they were built around defense, and their defense was excellent. fact of the matter is, those teams were nice and were always considered contenders, and had lebron been a top-tier goat at that point in his career, cleveland would have AT LEAST 1 champioship under its belt
+ kidd and dirk are not premier champions who did it time and time again... they won circumstantially, and though it does add to their resume, it doesnt elevate them to GOAT status....sorta like lebron with his 1 1/2.
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NIK, we all know that even if LeBron would finish his career with 10 straight rings, you would still said he's nowhere near Kobe's level :)
then i guess u dont really know after all, do ya?
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They were second favorites to Boston and only because the East was so weak those years. That team minus LeBron was awful...pretty sure you can look at the 2010-11 season to see what LeBron meant to that team. ::)
James is going down as a GOAT no matter how you feel like wording it.
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They were second favorites to Boston and only because the East was so weak those years. That team minus LeBron was awful...pretty sure you can look at the 2010-11 season to see what LeBron meant to that team. ::)
James is going down as a GOAT no matter how you feel like wording it.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html = best team in the L
and yea, he will.. just like julius erving- a 2nd tier GOAT. unless he keeps winning rings.