West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: adi760 on December 17, 2013, 02:09:32 PM
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Hey guys, do you know who was a producer of All Out from Until the End of Time? Booklet sayin it's "Big Simon Says", but i don't think that Suge did it :P It sound like E.D.I. Mean's job.
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big hutch no?
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He produced When I Get Free and Balllad of a Dead Soulja and they don't sound like All Out :/
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It was produced by Assassin
(Damon Thomas, EDI, or Johnny J)[/s]
Edit
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"All Out" (Original)
(2Pac featuring Tha Outlawz)
(produced by : Damon Thomas)
(recorded at : Track Record Studios, North Hollywood)
(engineered by : Scott Guttierez)
"All Out" (Remix)
(2Pac featuring Tha Outlawz)
(produced by : Big Simon Sayz / Damon Thomas)
(guitar : Eric Jackson)
(mixed by : Claudio Cueni at Pacifique Studios, North Hollywood)
(recorded at Record One, Sherman Oaks)
The "All Out" RMX was recorded during the Still I Rise remix sessions.
Damon Thomas aka Big Simon aka Myrion, formerly inhouse producer at Track Record, produced three songs for 2Pac just before his death. Then, he was part of Death Row production team with several remixes included in Still I Rise, Chronic 2000 and Dead Man Walkin. He also remixed unreleased Dr Dre material for Chronic 2000 before Death Row deleted it from the final compilation, due to legal problems with Dre.
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EDIT: you're correct. On paper it credits Damon Thomas but his moniker at that time was Assassin - NOT to be confused with the DJ (like I just did) but a few producers fell under the "big Simon says" title
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"All Out" (Original)
(2Pac featuring Tha Outlawz)
(produced by : Damon Thomas)
(recorded at : Track Record Studios, North Hollywood)
(engineered by : Scott Guttierez)
"All Out" (Remix)
(2Pac featuring Tha Outlawz)
(produced by : Big Simon Sayz / Damon Thomas)
(guitar : Eric Jackson)
(mixed by : Claudio Cueni at Pacifique Studios, North Hollywood)
(recorded at Record One, Sherman Oaks)
The "All Out" RMX was recorded during the Still I Rise remix sessions.
Damon Thomas aka Big Simon aka Myrion, formerly inhouse producer at Track Record, produced three songs for 2Pac just before his death. Then, he was part of Death Row production team with several remixes included in Still I Rise, Chronic 2000 and Dead Man Walkin. He also remixed unreleased Dr Dre material for Chronic 2000 before Death Row deleted it from the final compilation, due to legal problems with Dre.
Which Dre tracks were used in Chronic 2000?
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Yeah this sound like his work, thx so much homie.
Do you know who produced K-9' Gangsta'd Out from Too Gangsta for Radio?
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Which Dre tracks were used in Chronic 2000?
Die MF Die Remix
(Dr Dre featuring YGD Tha Top Dogg)
(remixed by : Damon Thomas)
Hoe Hoppin Remix
(Dr Dre featuring YGD Tha Top Dogg)
(remixed by : Damon Thomas)
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
(Dr Dre featuring VK)
(remixed by : Damon Thomas)
This remixes weren't used for the release version of Chronic 2000. Finally, the only remix which appeared was O.G. To B.G. with Soopafly, Daz & Kurupt. But the first remix was Dre featuring Tha Realest, Daz & Kurupt. But Hoe Hoppin, Rat-A-Tat-Tat and Die MF Die were in the first final tracklist before they altered it, because of Dre.
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btw, here's an extended version of the remix with a longer outro
http://www33.zippyshare.com/v/51082688/file.html
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Which Dre tracks were used in Chronic 2000?
Die MF Die Remix
(Dr Dre featuring YGD Tha Top Dogg)
(remixed by : Damon Thomas)
Hoe Hoppin Remix
(Dr Dre featuring YGD Tha Top Dogg)
(remixed by : Damon Thomas)
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
(Dr Dre featuring VK)
(remixed by : Damon Thomas)
This remixes weren't used for the release version of Chronic 2000. Finally, the only remix which appeared was O.G. To B.G. with Soopafly, Daz & Kurupt. But the first remix was Dre featuring Tha Realest, Daz & Kurupt. But Hoe Hoppin, Rat-A-Tat-Tat and Die MF Die were in the first final tracklist before they altered it, because of Dre.
Thanks for that, I thought it meant that some of the beats on that album were Dre tracks but uncredited. Top Dogg, heh.
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Interscope also messed everything up with that compilation too. There was a posthumous video for Unconditional Love set to the be single for the Inside Out compilation. This was to be later shoved onto the reshaped Chronic 2000 compilation, but obviously there was conflicts with the Greatest Hits from Interscope/Amaru
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Man if Suge couldnt make any new star and rode only on Pac's fame it's his problem not Interscope.
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He was blackballed, and at a time the entire genre of Hip Hop was going through a transitional phase where it was becoming more corporately controlled and censored, which due to a lot of artists being phased out, and rap being "dumbed" down significantly, it was virtually impossible for a label like Death Row to coexist.
Suge could have changed and adhered to the change, as he had both Interscope A&R's, and industry seniors try to encourage him to bring out softer rap, or "pop" rap, but he decided to go against it, and stick to bringing out the rap everyone here appreciates.
The label gets criticized a lot for the 2Pac remix albums but fail to see the entire picture, or business sense behind it. Suge/Death Row actually handled 2Pac's unreleased recordings better than anyone else out there. I'm sure we all can see how they brought out the material before Amaru had an injunction on them. Starin Thru My Rearview, Late Night, Friends, Who Do U Believe In, and Thugs Nature all came out top notch, whereas Amaru were already "remixing" entire songs way different to their original counterpart from way back in 97.
Now, Death Row were only allowed to release 2Pac material that was already publicly released after Too Gangsta 4 radio dropped, which is why we got the much despised "remix" album. But to stay afloat, they had to release material that was already completed, as remixing wasn't costly, otherwise new projects from new artists and all the investment that went into them would have all been released onto a cold, unforgiving market that they were already blackballed in meaning that they would have been working at a loss the moment they dropped the albums -IE; "in debt". This is why we didn't see Crooked I being released and why a lot of 2nd gen rappers (with mad talent) were being 'held back'. We seen them being madly promoted on Hip Hop magazines, and on other projects. Hell, they were even on Murder Inc when that was at it's peak to try and reach out, hoping that the industry would open it's doors back open. Miramax studios also picked up a lot of the tab for the Dysfunctional Family soundtrack (and music video) which is why we were able to see that at all.
Death Row didn't have any issues getting talent. They managed to get Lisa 'Left Eye' Lopez on the label, and were even going to bring out a Ja Rule album under the Death Row imprint when he still had huge commercial appeal. Game before he signed with Aftermath. It wasn't Suge, or 2Pac's death being the death or Death Row, it was the industry blackballing it as punishment for not conforming to their orders to change into "pop" rap and how the rest of the industry eventually became.
Although Suge did try. He went on air to say that none of this records would no longer contain the word "bitch", but that still wasn't enough to please them. They wanted dumb n*gga rap
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Man I know all this and havebig respect for all what Suge did for music. But this doesn't change fact that he after 96' couldnt make next big star. N.I.n.A. was a big chance for him, but this company (which one lisa had some contract) blocked her album.
Ja and Suge were thinking about fusion of their companies and this would be just miracle for Row artists. Row would get a good ditributor and Ja would get great artists and producers.
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Assassin produced it
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Assassin produced it
uhm... no
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He was blackballed, and at a time the entire genre of Hip Hop was going through a transitional phase where it was becoming more corporately controlled and censored, which due to a lot of artists being phased out, and rap being "dumbed" down significantly, it was virtually impossible for a label like Death Row to coexist.
Nope. He was imprisoned. He was a powerful businessman but it's very hard to run a label successfully from a prison cell. He also lost his three biggest acts within a year and there was no plan in place to build stars off of that because nobody at the label was there to pull it altogether. It's the same reason Ruff Ryder albums stopped selling and getting spins when DMX, Eve, and The Lox played smaller roles or why D-12 albums would be difficult to sell if they didn't have Eminem on there. Bad Boy's follow-up album to "Life After Death" had essentially the same roster of guests and Puffy from a business POV had wisely inserted Mase into one of the album singles on Life After Death to try and generate some shine for Mase then the two of them can tour and do promotion with that song like it's their own single.
Death Row didn't have that. Dre's departure was a massive void but with Tupac's star power and acting as a mouthpiece (and also his appearance on the last big Dre single solidifying him as a credible equal or successor to Dre), Suge could build on that. He still had Snoop as well and with them doing appearances together and Suge playing a bigger public role with the company, they still had the momentum. Then Pac died. Then Suge went to prison. Snoop Dogg, Kurupt, and Nate all left the label. They now pretty much have Daz, Jewell, and Mi'chelle left. I mean, think of how long G-Unit would have lasted as a brand if after Game left, 50 went to prison, Buck left, and it was basically Tony Yayo running the label with Havoc from Mobb Deep as the head of production. Sales would plummet.
Suge could have changed and adhered to the change, as he had both Interscope A&R's, and industry seniors try to encourage him to bring out softer rap, or "pop" rap, but he decided to go against it, and stick to bringing out the rap everyone here appreciates.
Interscope was not distributing Death Row at the time so for their A&R's to discuss day-to-day business on that level would have constituted as illegal tampering. Interscope's only connection to the label was Pac who still owed them albums from his first contract. All their other projects were distributed by Priority. This isn't blackballing. Once again, a nearly identical scenario happened with G-Unit. 50 Cent and Young Buck still owed Interscope albums because of their sales figures but Lloyd Banks came out on EMI and they would not clear a companion soundtrack 50 was planning with new artists for the "Before I Self Destruct" movie. This isn't blackballing. This is how the industry works. Once your momentum cools down, they cut your promotional budget in half and give it to someone whose sales are on the rise. Let them work with it for five or so years and the same things happen. It happens to nearly every big-selling label.
The label gets criticized a lot for the 2Pac remix albums but fail to see the entire picture, or business sense behind it. Suge/Death Row actually handled 2Pac's unreleased recordings better than anyone else out there. I'm sure we all can see how they brought out the material before Amaru had an injunction on them. Starin Thru My Rearview, Late Night, Friends, Who Do U Believe In, and Thugs Nature all came out top notch, whereas Amaru were already "remixing" entire songs way different to their original counterpart from way back in 97.
This is just cherry-picking mixed with speculation. The first posthumous Pac album was "R U Still Down" which comparatively speaking has material that sounds closest to the original recordings. This was entirely an Amaru/Interscope release with no Death Row involvement at all. A lot of the production is updated to sound cleaner but for the most part, the majority of the beats are basically enhanced and upgraded versions of the originals. The second posthumous release which featured Death Row material and also had production that closely mirrored the original beat blueprints was put out by Interscope. The production templates didn't radically change until about 2001 when "Until The End of Time" came out.
Death Row didn't have any issues getting talent. They managed to get Lisa 'Left Eye' Lopez on the label, and were even going to bring out a Ja Rule album under the Death Row imprint when he still had huge commercial appeal. Game before he signed with Aftermath. It wasn't Suge, or 2Pac's death being the death or Death Row, it was the industry blackballing it as punishment for not conforming to their orders to change into "pop" rap and how the rest of the industry eventually became.
Yes, it was the "industry". All these record companies don't actually compete with each other. All these rich and powerful record company CEO's who are not making as much money as Jimmy Iovine are going to intentionally pass up on going into a profitable business venture that could put their own label ahead of Interscope and give them the top label in town, just so they can help their "competition" punish Suge Knight for keeping it real and not wanting to make pop music.
While "Left Eye" is a star. Her only sales track record was being part of TLC. When established artists from groups do solo records, it's almost the same promotion required as breaking a new act. Left Eye already had a solo album done before she even signed with Death Row and it never got put out in the States. Game before Aftermath? Not only was he not a star but Death Row actually turned him down. He didn't have a business relationship with them beyond the one he had with Bad Boy. He sent them a demo and they passed.
Although Suge did try. He went on air to say that none of this records would no longer contain the word "bitch", but that still wasn't enough to please them. They wanted dumb n*gga rap
What he actually said through his public statement before he was sentenced in February of 1997 was that he had made the decision that no album he would put out would have the word "nigger". Even if you, through some form of revisionist history wanted to claim it was "bitch". Both words are used repeatedly through out the records released after that statement. And the bottom line is why do the record companies care one way or another if he uses those words on his albums or not? Their agenda is to make money.
Interscope got out of their partnership because the civil lawsuits were starting to build and they saw the writing on the wall. Suge was getting into legal trouble and Jimmy Iovine did some calculating. He made a deal for Dr. Dre and gave him his own production company. Tupac was already contracted to Interscope. And once Suge went away, the label went into disarray. Interscope absolutely abandoned him and Death Row but Suge is an astute enough business man to know the industry is a hooker and you don't fall in love with it. People throw out the blackballing theory a lot but Suge himself has said in interviews that "As long as you're hot and you're making money, companies will fuck with you".