West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: MOBNigga06 on January 20, 2015, 10:44:02 PM
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Just bumped the OG version of the Makaveli album and really starting to appreciate its superiority over the released version. The track selection makes it much more coherent, it's the perfect reflection of Pac's state of mind when he was at war.
It occurred to me this time that the main difference between the OG Makaveli and the released Makaveli is that the OG version is the product of essentially three producers, not two: Hurt Em Badd, Darryl Harper, and QD3.
On the OG, QD3 produced roughly 1/3 of the tracks: Friendz, Lost Souls, Niggaz Nature, and To Live N Die In LA.
It makes you wonder if the person who posthumously selected the songs to be released for the Makaveli album had some kind of grudge against QD3 (yet recognized that the single 2 Live N Die In LA could not be cut). Anyone know who was responsible for altering the track selection from what Pac wanted to what was released?
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That's an interesting question. I always thought that 2Pac was solely responsible for the tracklisting on the album, and that he chose it that way before he was killed. When was the album meant to drop anyway? Presumably it was brought forward following 2Pac's death to capitalise off the attention?
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Wasn't it problem with mastering, they just hadn't time?
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it was said that the beats qd3 gave pac was originally meant for snoop. tbh qd3 shoulda produced the whole makaveli album.
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it was said that the beats qd3 gave pac was originally meant for snoop. tbh qd3 shoulda produced the whole makaveli album.
I think Pac's original vision was best. Three dope producers with three different sounds: QD3, Darryl Harper, Hurt Em Badd.
The only outlier on the OG Makaveli album is When Thugz Cry, produced by Johnny J. Makes you wonder if that track was really on the OG Makaveli, or if someone added it there along with the "hidden track" of Pac screaming the Outlawz names and shit.
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it was said that the beats qd3 gave pac was originally meant for snoop. tbh qd3 shoulda produced the whole makaveli album.
you moron, Hail Mary would never have been released then ::)
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I recall reading a long time ago that the beat for 'Letter To The President' was given to Snoop Dogg first but he passed up on it. I can't imagine him on that beat at all.
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it was said that the beats qd3 gave pac was originally meant for snoop. tbh qd3 shoulda produced the whole makaveli album.
you moron, Hail Mary would never have been released then ::)
so the fuck what u fucktard. how do you know that a better hail mary wouldn't have been made bein' produced by qdIII ? btw lost souls > hail mary.
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There seem to be different perceptions on this from people around that time. Hurt-em-bad said QDIII basically did the whole album before him and Darryl got involved, then they ended up handling the bulk of the production as Pac started to like more and more of their stuff. But as QDIII tells it, Pac only wanted 2-3 of his Beats for Makaveli and the rest he wanted to use later on. He mentioned "Letter to the President" and "You Don't Have to Worry" as two that were done during Makaveli but weren't actually intended for the album.
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it was said that the beats qd3 gave pac was originally meant for snoop. tbh qd3 shoulda produced the whole makaveli album.
you moron, Hail Mary would never have been released then ::)
so the fuck what u fucktard. how do you know that a better hail mary wouldn't have been made bein' produced by qdIII ? btw lost souls > hail mary.
(https://i.imgur.com/I8CZKh.jpg)
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the album is perfect as is
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the album is perfect as is
lol @ having dumbasses on here actually wishing hail mary, bomb first and well over half the album didn't make the cut :laugh:
album is already the undisputed best album ever
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the album is perfect as is
The album is pretty damn good, don't get me wrong. The only really weak song on the released version is Toss It Up. The album would be improved if that track were replaced with almost any of others (Friendz, Niggaz Nature, Watch Ya Mouth, etc.)
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There seem to be different perceptions on this from people around that time. Hurt-em-bad said QDIII basically did the whole album before him and Darryl got involved, then they ended up handling the bulk of the production as Pac started to like more and more of their stuff. But as QDIII tells it, Pac only wanted 2-3 of his Beats for Makaveli and the rest he wanted to use later on. He mentioned "Letter to the President" and "You Don't Have to Worry" as two that were done during Makaveli but weren't actually intended for the album.
That's pretty interesting to hear. The way I'd make sense of their conflicting understandings is by guessing that Pac probably envisioned a few different Makaveli albums at the time. Clearly a bunch of QD3 tracks were intended for Makaveli projects, Kiluminatti being the most obvious one.
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The Makaveli album is perfect the way it is. I strongly believe Suge did the right thing in regards to this album, and he was even in an interview with MTV right after Pac died (a classic interview, btw) and he was saying that Pac did make up with Nas at the Awards but that since Pac had died he had to leave the album as it was, because he didn't have the right to go in and change it without Pac being there. So I firmly believe the form that the album was released in is the way Pac meant for it to be.
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you can't take off TOSS IT UP but you could shorten it to just be those 2 verses
that 2nd verse let the whole world know on record what a phony Dre was and Pac even dropped a subliminal line that Dre was a child molester in that verse
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There seem to be different perceptions on this from people around that time. Hurt-em-bad said QDIII basically did the whole album before him and Darryl got involved, then they ended up handling the bulk of the production as Pac started to like more and more of their stuff. But as QDIII tells it, Pac only wanted 2-3 of his Beats for Makaveli and the rest he wanted to use later on. He mentioned "Letter to the President" and "You Don't Have to Worry" as two that were done during Makaveli but weren't actually intended for the album.
That's pretty interesting to hear. The way I'd make sense of their conflicting understandings is by guessing that Pac probably envisioned a few different Makaveli albums at the time. Clearly a bunch of QD3 tracks were intended for Makaveli projects, Kiluminatti being the most obvious one.
Also remember that part of the reason for the handful of tracklist revisions were due to the shift in the marketing approach of the album. Remember that at first, Pac wanted it to be really, really gritty, almost as if it were intended to be sold through swap meets and mom-and-pop stores... almost somewhat underground, to an extent... the overly simplistic album layout like the booklet and tray liner reflect that. The earlier tracklists do give that feel, musically. But you figure as time progressed, they wanted to market it as a full-blown album and needed to throw in a club joint like Toss It Up, even though it's ironic that To Live & Die in L.A. was a much, much bigger hit.
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There seem to be different perceptions on this from people around that time. Hurt-em-bad said QDIII basically did the whole album before him and Darryl got involved, then they ended up handling the bulk of the production as Pac started to like more and more of their stuff. But as QDIII tells it, Pac only wanted 2-3 of his Beats for Makaveli and the rest he wanted to use later on. He mentioned "Letter to the President" and "You Don't Have to Worry" as two that were done during Makaveli but weren't actually intended for the album.
That's pretty interesting to hear. The way I'd make sense of their conflicting understandings is by guessing that Pac probably envisioned a few different Makaveli albums at the time. Clearly a bunch of QD3 tracks were intended for Makaveli projects, Kiluminatti being the most obvious one.
Also remember that part of the reason for the handful of tracklist revisions were due to the shift in the marketing approach of the album. Remember that at first, Pac wanted it to be really, really gritty, almost as if it were intended to be sold through swap meets and mom-and-pop stores... almost somewhat underground, to an extent... the overly simplistic album layout like the booklet and tray liner reflect that. The earlier tracklists do give that feel, musically. But you figure as time progressed, they wanted to market it as a full-blown album and needed to throw in a club joint like Toss It Up, even though it's ironic that To Live & Die in L.A. was a much, much bigger hit.
Toss It Up would have been a major hit if it had 3 pac verses with brief vocals from the RnB singers. As it is, the track is borderline unlistenable because of the three minutes of mediocre singing separating two dope Pac verses.
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The Makaveli album is perfect the way it is. I strongly believe Suge did the right thing in regards to this album, and he was even in an interview with MTV right after Pac died (a classic interview, btw) and he was saying that Pac did make up with Nas at the Awards but that since Pac had died he had to leave the album as it was, because he didn't have the right to go in and change it without Pac being there. So I firmly believe the form that the album was released in is the way Pac meant for it to be.
But when you listen to the OG version, it's clear that the released album cannot really be "the way Pac meant for it to be." In particular, the skits and intros are completely fucked up on the released version. The rationale behind them is clear in the OG, however.
A similar flaw in the released version, discussed earlier on this forum, is the title of the album, which reflects someone's clear misunderstanding of what Pac intended. Makaveli the Don (artist) - Kiluminatti (album title). Not Makaveli (artist) - The Don Kiluminatii (album title).
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The Makaveli album is perfect the way it is. I strongly believe Suge did the right thing in regards to this album, and he was even in an interview with MTV right after Pac died (a classic interview, btw) and he was saying that Pac did make up with Nas at the Awards but that since Pac had died he had to leave the album as it was, because he didn't have the right to go in and change it without Pac being there. So I firmly believe the form that the album was released in is the way Pac meant for it to be.
But when you listen to the OG version, it's clear that the released album cannot really be "the way Pac meant for it to be." In particular, the skits and intros are completely fucked up on the released version. The rationale behind them is clear in the OG, however.
A similar flaw in the released version, discussed earlier on this forum, is the title of the album, which reflects someone's clear misunderstanding of what Pac intended. Makaveli the Don (artist) - Kiluminatti (album title). Not Makaveli (artist) - The Don Kiluminatii (album title).
or "Don Makaveli"
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the only problem as i stated with makaveli is that it could have had an extra 2 songs mixed into it.
i would have to choose Friends and Watch Ya Mouth but i can see people wanting Lost Souls, Niggas Nature and Black Jesus.
imagine if they released a Makaveli re-release with a bonus EP of those 5 original songs plus something unheard 8)
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Toss It Up would have been a major hit if it had 3 pac verses with brief vocals from the RnB singers. As it is, the track is borderline unlistenable because of the three minutes of mediocre singing separating two dope Pac verses.
I disagree, because three verses versus two would not have made the difference. We know the connection between the beats of Toss It Up and No Diggity... they both had pretty much the same vibe but No Diggity also had two rap verses (one by Dre, hardly a rapper, and another by Queen Pen, who wasn't great even among the female emcees) and even more R&B singing that really wasn't much better either, yet it was ten times the hit that Toss It Up was.
Don't get me wrong... I personally would have liked three Pac verses instead.
But when you listen to the OG version, it's clear that the released album cannot really be "the way Pac meant for it to be." In particular, the skits and intros are completely fucked up on the released version. The rationale behind them is clear in the OG, however.
I agree with this. I never thought about it much, but when the OG leaked, it made a lot more sense, particularly the Street Science intro leading into Watch Ya Mouth instead of To Live & Die in L.A.
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but the "toss it up" intro was originally used on KRazy which makes no sense. Krazy doesn't have a dark beat at all so the intro leading into it shouldn't be dark.
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There seem to be different perceptions on this from people around that time. Hurt-em-bad said QDIII basically did the whole album before him and Darryl got involved, then they ended up handling the bulk of the production as Pac started to like more and more of their stuff. But as QDIII tells it, Pac only wanted 2-3 of his Beats for Makaveli and the rest he wanted to use later on. He mentioned "Letter to the President" and "You Don't Have to Worry" as two that were done during Makaveli but weren't actually intended for the album.
I dont think letter was done around the same time as Makaveli. When The Makaveli era was happening, Big Syke was already gone, and Noble was not on this song. Letter was most likely done around the AEOM sessions, with soon as I get home.
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but the "toss it up" intro was originally used on KRazy which makes no sense. Krazy doesn't have a dark beat at all so the intro leading into it shouldn't be dark.
Technically it's the outro to Hail Mary, which is why it always followed that song even though it was on a separate track... it was described as such in the XXL Making of Makaveli.
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There seem to be different perceptions on this from people around that time. Hurt-em-bad said QDIII basically did the whole album before him and Darryl got involved, then they ended up handling the bulk of the production as Pac started to like more and more of their stuff. But as QDIII tells it, Pac only wanted 2-3 of his Beats for Makaveli and the rest he wanted to use later on. He mentioned "Letter to the President" and "You Don't Have to Worry" as two that were done during Makaveli but weren't actually intended for the album.
I dont think letter was done around the same time as Makaveli. When The Makaveli era was happening, Big Syke was already gone, and Noble was not on this song. Letter was most likely done around the AEOM sessions, with soon as I get home.
Here's what QDIII said (also mentions "Soon as I get Home"):
"In regards to Makaveli, i did Lost Souls, Friends, Soon as i get home, Letter To The President, Tear drops & Closed Caskets, for Makaveli, Pac wanted to save them for his next solo album so they were put aside, he wanted Makaveli to have a rougher, harder sound and some of those tracks were more like his regular style."
And later...
" A lot of the commercial songs that i did for makaveli came out later on other albums. Such as Lost Souls even Friends and Letter to The Prez."
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but the "toss it up" intro was originally used on KRazy which makes no sense. Krazy doesn't have a dark beat at all so the intro leading into it shouldn't be dark.
Technically it's the outro to Hail Mary, which is why it always followed that song even though it was on a separate track... it was described as such in the XXL Making of Makaveli.
Actually, the rationale behind the outro to Hail Mary leading to Krazy is clear: he's talking about how Snoop Dogg "and his niggaz" represent his allies on Death Row, which then leads to a song collaborating with Bad Azz "representing the LBC crew."
Again, the OG track ordering reveals the sense behind the words. But when an outro about Snoop Dogg leads to Toss It Up, it makes no sense at all...
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There seem to be different perceptions on this from people around that time. Hurt-em-bad said QDIII basically did the whole album before him and Darryl got involved, then they ended up handling the bulk of the production as Pac started to like more and more of their stuff. But as QDIII tells it, Pac only wanted 2-3 of his Beats for Makaveli and the rest he wanted to use later on. He mentioned "Letter to the President" and "You Don't Have to Worry" as two that were done during Makaveli but weren't actually intended for the album.
I dont think letter was done around the same time as Makaveli. When The Makaveli era was happening, Big Syke was already gone, and Noble was not on this song. Letter was most likely done around the AEOM sessions, with soon as I get home.
Here's what QDIII said (also mentions "Soon as I get Home"):
"In regards to Makaveli, i did Lost Souls, Friends, Soon as i get home, Letter To The President, Tear drops & Closed Caskets, for Makaveli, Pac wanted to save them for his next solo album so they were put aside, he wanted Makaveli to have a rougher, harder sound and some of those tracks were more like his regular style."
And later...
" A lot of the commercial songs that i did for makaveli came out later on other albums. Such as Lost Souls even Friends and Letter to The Prez."
Personally I think QD3 is grouping other songs that he produced with Makaveli songs.
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There seem to be different perceptions on this from people around that time. Hurt-em-bad said QDIII basically did the whole album before him and Darryl got involved, then they ended up handling the bulk of the production as Pac started to like more and more of their stuff. But as QDIII tells it, Pac only wanted 2-3 of his Beats for Makaveli and the rest he wanted to use later on. He mentioned "Letter to the President" and "You Don't Have to Worry" as two that were done during Makaveli but weren't actually intended for the album.
I dont think letter was done around the same time as Makaveli. When The Makaveli era was happening, Big Syke was already gone, and Noble was not on this song. Letter was most likely done around the AEOM sessions, with soon as I get home.
Here's what QDIII said (also mentions "Soon as I get Home"):
"In regards to Makaveli, i did Lost Souls, Friends, Soon as i get home, Letter To The President, Tear drops & Closed Caskets, for Makaveli, Pac wanted to save them for his next solo album so they were put aside, he wanted Makaveli to have a rougher, harder sound and some of those tracks were more like his regular style."
And later...
" A lot of the commercial songs that i did for makaveli came out later on other albums. Such as Lost Souls even Friends and Letter to The Prez."
Personally I think QD3 is grouping other songs that he produced with Makaveli songs.
I would guess that QD3 didn't too many different sessions with Pac. Probably he recorded with him a few times for AEOM (generating Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find and a couple other tracks) and then he recorded with him a few times several months later (circa May/June 1996) during which time he did Friendz, Lost Soulz, etc. QD3 seems to think of the sessions he did with Pac in terms of AEOM sessions vs. Makaveli sessions.
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but the "toss it up" intro was originally used on KRazy which makes no sense. Krazy doesn't have a dark beat at all so the intro leading into it shouldn't be dark.
Technically it's the outro to Hail Mary, which is why it always followed that song even though it was on a separate track... it was described as such in the XXL Making of Makaveli.
that's interesting, never knew that
almost wish they made it it's own separate skit
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Yeah, I used to hate listening to it when trying to hear Toss It Up back in 1996.
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The first time I ever heard the retail the night it came out, I remember wanting to hear a DARK song like hollywood bank robbery even though it wasn't out yet but something along those lines. Death Row had the potential to be on another level.