West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: CORREA on December 29, 2015, 03:52:08 PM
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Eminem has produced Loyal to the Game, the seventh Tupac Shakur album since the rapper was killed in a drive-by shooting in Las Vegas eight years ago. Due out December 14th, the album will feature sixteen tracks built around Shakur's previously unreleased raps. 50 Cent, Obie Trice, Jadakiss, Young Buck, Lloyd Banks and Ronald Isley also added guest vocals.
Eminem and Shakur's posthumous partnership began with "Runnin' (Dying to Live)," a track Eminem produced for last year's Tupac: Resurrection film. Eminem won over Tupac's mother, Afeni Shakur, who initially opposed the idea of him working on the track.
"[Dr.] Dre told me that Eminem wouldn't change anything," Afeni told Rolling Stone at the time. "My choice was to say to Dre, 'You don't know what you're talking about,' or take a chance. And I'm glad that I did, because when [Eminem] finished the song I could see his vision. It took me a while because I'm fifty-six-years-old and I'm not a hip-hop expert, so I didn't understand the genius of what was before me. When I did, me and my whole family were blown away."
in retrospect Dre knew exactly what he was talking about! it's interesting however that Dre would be in discussion when a Pac album was being produced. i don't think this has ever been discussed. what's your thoughts?
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I think that is just Afeni's bullshit to sell more records. It was the worst Pac's record period. Even if u put another rapper instead of Pac there, beats still were wack as fuck. I listened do this once and never again.
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Everything about that project was horrible. From the beats to Eminem adding his favorite artist to certain songs. "Dying 2 Live" was fuckin incredible - I don't know how he fell off so hard in between that song and this project.
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in retrospect Dre knew exactly what he was talking about! it's interesting however that Dre would be in discussion when a Pac album was being produced.
Interesting fact. Didn't know that.
It was the worst Pac's record period. Even if u put another rapper instead of Pac there, beats still were wack as fuck.
Exactly. Or how to break the legacy ? Oh, easy, release shitty projects like "Loyal To The Game" and "Pac's Life" worst 2PAC albums.
Everything about that project was horrible. From the beats to Eminem adding his favorite artist to certain songs. "Dying 2 Live" was fuckin incredible - I don't know how he fell off so hard in between that song and this project.
This Remix of "Runnin" was overrated. But the worst about "Loyal To The Game" is that the Bonus Tracks were good, especially the DJ Quik one wih Big Syke.
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Dyin' to Live was horrible, to my ears and mind at least. Perfect blueprint on how to mess up a classic song and make it wack and corny.
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Dyin' to Live was horrible, to my ears and mind at least. Perfect blueprint on how to mess up a classic song and make it wack and corny.
Exactly...Dying 2 Live was horrible.
Loyal 2 The Game was one of the worst albums ever made
Plus Afeni should not be the one who is in control about what to do with 2Pac albums with regards to the creative side.
Yes she was 2Pac's mother but thats as far as it goes...she has no history in music or hip hop. She was not involved in the
creative process for any of Pac's albums when he was alive...no wonder most of the solo Amaru stuff is shit.
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Eminem has produced Loyal to the Game, the seventh Tupac Shakur album since the rapper was killed in a drive-by shooting in Las Vegas eight years ago. Due out December 14th, the album will feature sixteen tracks built around Shakur's previously unreleased raps. 50 Cent, Obie Trice, Jadakiss, Young Buck, Lloyd Banks and Ronald Isley also added guest vocals.
Eminem and Shakur's posthumous partnership began with "Runnin' (Dying to Live)," a track Eminem produced for last year's Tupac: Resurrection film. Eminem won over Tupac's mother, Afeni Shakur, who initially opposed the idea of him working on the track.
"[Dr.] Dre told me that Eminem wouldn't change anything," Afeni told Rolling Stone at the time. "My choice was to say to Dre, 'You don't know what you're talking about,' or take a chance. And I'm glad that I did, because when [Eminem] finished the song I could see his vision. It took me a while because I'm fifty-six-years-old and I'm not a hip-hop expert, so I didn't understand the genius of what was before me. When I did, me and my whole family were blown away."
in retrospect Dre knew exactly what he was talking about! it's interesting however that Dre would be in discussion when a Pac album was being produced. i don't think this has ever been discussed. what's your thoughts?
this is a couple incidents now that Afeni has shown some love to Dre. She was in talks with Dre about this album, and she let Dre use the hologram. Meanwhile, she has probably been at odds with Suge
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Eminem has produced Loyal to the Game, the seventh Tupac Shakur album since the rapper was killed in a drive-by shooting in Las Vegas eight years ago. Due out December 14th, the album will feature sixteen tracks built around Shakur's previously unreleased raps. 50 Cent, Obie Trice, Jadakiss, Young Buck, Lloyd Banks and Ronald Isley also added guest vocals.
Eminem and Shakur's posthumous partnership began with "Runnin' (Dying to Live)," a track Eminem produced for last year's Tupac: Resurrection film. Eminem won over Tupac's mother, Afeni Shakur, who initially opposed the idea of him working on the track.
"[Dr.] Dre told me that Eminem wouldn't change anything," Afeni told Rolling Stone at the time. "My choice was to say to Dre, 'You don't know what you're talking about,' or take a chance. And I'm glad that I did, because when [Eminem] finished the song I could see his vision. It took me a while because I'm fifty-six-years-old and I'm not a hip-hop expert, so I didn't understand the genius of what was before me. When I did, me and my whole family were blown away."
in retrospect Dre knew exactly what he was talking about! it's interesting however that Dre would be in discussion when a Pac album was being produced. i don't think this has ever been discussed. what's your thoughts?
this is a couple incidents now that Afeni has shown some love to Dre. She was in talks with Dre about this album, and she let Dre use the hologram. Meanwhile, she has probably been at odds with Suge
So we can blame Dre for the worst 2Pac album ever released then lol? Id rather have Suge in control of Pac albums then Dre or Afeni
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Woulda been incredible if she let Dre produce it instead
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Woulda been incredible if she let Dre produce it instead
Yeah that would have been dope
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I still have never heard it. Matter of fact I was done after Until The End Of Time. I thought it was pretty good but I could tell that there wasn't much they could do with Pac's music after that. They already started getting new producers on some tracks that I wasn't thrilled about. Em likes to brag that he produced Lose Yourself but most of his tracks back then just weren't good just like his music. You could blame the music on the drugs but he just wasn't a good producer at all then period. I refuse to believe that the decision to get him on board was anything other than business. Dre couldn't have done it because there would have been a even greater backlash because everyone knew that Pac didn't like Dre.
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I still have never heard it. Matter of fact I was done after Until The End Of Time. I thought it was pretty good but I could tell that there wasn't much they could do with Pac's music after that. They already started getting new producers on some tracks that I wasn't thrilled about. Em likes to brag that he produced Lose Yourself but most of his tracks back then just weren't good just like his music. You could blame the music on the drugs but he just wasn't a good producer at all then period. I refuse to believe that the decision to get him on board was anything other than business. Dre couldn't have done it because there would have been a even greater backlash because everyone knew that Pac didn't like Dre.
I hear you. "Better Days" was the last good 2Pac album...like "Until The End Of Time" it had its good tracks and its bad tracks (mainly down to the remixed versions) but it was pretty decent compared to what we
got after
"Loyal 2 The Game" is not even worth listening to as it will just get any real 2Pac fan angry when you hear how Em changed some of Pacs words, changed the pitch of his voice
to fit the beats and how bad Em's productions are and how they are not suited to Pac. To me it just sounds like a full album of Pac rapping over different variations of the "Lose Yourself" beat
"Pacs Life" is absolute garbage but is worth buying just for the OG Version of "Soon As I Get Home" that is on there
"Loyal 2 The Game" was a good business move as it made the album popular on release only because it had Eminems name connected to it
but from a 2Pac stand point they may as well have just cocked over and shit all over the DAT tapes...that was the ultimate sell out album
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Eminem only had mere scraps to work with by the time Loyal to the Game came around. Also consider that Em did the album for free.
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I still have never heard it. Matter of fact I was done after Until The End Of Time. I thought it was pretty good but I could tell that there wasn't much they could do with Pac's music after that. They already started getting new producers on some tracks that I wasn't thrilled about. Em likes to brag that he produced Lose Yourself but most of his tracks back then just weren't good just like his music. You could blame the music on the drugs but he just wasn't a good producer at all then period. I refuse to believe that the decision to get him on board was anything other than business. Dre couldn't have done it because there would have been a even greater backlash because everyone knew that Pac didn't like Dre.
I hear you. "Better Days" was the last good 2Pac album...like "Until The End Of Time" it had its good tracks and its bad tracks (mainly down to the remixed versions) but it was pretty decent compared to what we
got after
"Loyal 2 The Game" is not even worth listening to as it will just get any real 2Pac fan angry when you hear how Em changed some of Pacs words, changed the pitch of his voice
to fit the beats and how bad Em's productions are and how they are not suited to Pac. To me it just sounds like a full album of Pac rapping over different variations of the "Lose Yourself" beat
"Pacs Life" is absolute garbage but is worth buying just for the OG Version of "Soon As I Get Home" that is on there
"Loyal 2 The Game" was a good business move as it made the album popular on release only because it had Eminems name connected to it
but from a 2Pac stand point they may as well have just cocked over and shit all over the DAT tapes...that was the ultimate sell out album
I had the og soon as I get home on Makavelli number five. Was this version better quality?
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I still have never heard it. Matter of fact I was done after Until The End Of Time. I thought it was pretty good but I could tell that there wasn't much they could do with Pac's music after that. They already started getting new producers on some tracks that I wasn't thrilled about. Em likes to brag that he produced Lose Yourself but most of his tracks back then just weren't good just like his music. You could blame the music on the drugs but he just wasn't a good producer at all then period. I refuse to believe that the decision to get him on board was anything other than business. Dre couldn't have done it because there would have been a even greater backlash because everyone knew that Pac didn't like Dre.
Eminem was actually on fire in terms of production around 2002-2003....he seemed to be learnin the ropes from Dre and even produced a majority of "the Eminem show" which was a classic album. He fell off faster than any produced I can remember and then pretty much gave up doin beats. But at one point, he was amongst the hottest in the game.
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I still have never heard it. Matter of fact I was done after Until The End Of Time. I thought it was pretty good but I could tell that there wasn't much they could do with Pac's music after that. They already started getting new producers on some tracks that I wasn't thrilled about. Em likes to brag that he produced Lose Yourself but most of his tracks back then just weren't good just like his music. You could blame the music on the drugs but he just wasn't a good producer at all then period. I refuse to believe that the decision to get him on board was anything other than business. Dre couldn't have done it because there would have been a even greater backlash because everyone knew that Pac didn't like Dre.
I hear you. "Better Days" was the last good 2Pac album...like "Until The End Of Time" it had its good tracks and its bad tracks (mainly down to the remixed versions) but it was pretty decent compared to what we
got after
"Loyal 2 The Game" is not even worth listening to as it will just get any real 2Pac fan angry when you hear how Em changed some of Pacs words, changed the pitch of his voice
to fit the beats and how bad Em's productions are and how they are not suited to Pac. To me it just sounds like a full album of Pac rapping over different variations of the "Lose Yourself" beat
"Pacs Life" is absolute garbage but is worth buying just for the OG Version of "Soon As I Get Home" that is on there
"Loyal 2 The Game" was a good business move as it made the album popular on release only because it had Eminems name connected to it
but from a 2Pac stand point they may as well have just cocked over and shit all over the DAT tapes...that was the ultimate sell out album
I had the og soon as I get home on Makavelli number five. Was this version better quality?
Yeah the quality is 100% on "Pacs Life"...it was a lot better then any previous bootleg version of the track that i have
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Eminem only had mere scraps to work with by the time Loyal to the Game came around. Also consider that Em did the album for free.
Its no excuse...the beats could have still be good if ihe was workig with scraps or no scraps,
and i should think he did it for free...it would be scandalous if he got paid for that shit haha
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I still have never heard it. Matter of fact I was done after Until The End Of Time. I thought it was pretty good but I could tell that there wasn't much they could do with Pac's music after that. They already started getting new producers on some tracks that I wasn't thrilled about. Em likes to brag that he produced Lose Yourself but most of his tracks back then just weren't good just like his music. You could blame the music on the drugs but he just wasn't a good producer at all then period. I refuse to believe that the decision to get him on board was anything other than business. Dre couldn't have done it because there would have been a even greater backlash because everyone knew that Pac didn't like Dre.
Eminem was actually on fire in terms of production around 2002-2003....he seemed to be learnin the ropes from Dre and even produced a majority of "the Eminem show" which was a classic album. He fell off faster than any produced I can remember and then pretty much gave up doin beats. But at one point, he was amongst the hottest in the game.
Their idea of production over there is getting a beat, making changes to it and then getting the production credit.
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I still have never heard it. Matter of fact I was done after Until The End Of Time. I thought it was pretty good but I could tell that there wasn't much they could do with Pac's music after that. They already started getting new producers on some tracks that I wasn't thrilled about. Em likes to brag that he produced Lose Yourself but most of his tracks back then just weren't good just like his music. You could blame the music on the drugs but he just wasn't a good producer at all then period. I refuse to believe that the decision to get him on board was anything other than business. Dre couldn't have done it because there would have been a even greater backlash because everyone knew that Pac didn't like Dre.
Eminem was actually on fire in terms of production around 2002-2003....he seemed to be learnin the ropes from Dre and even produced a majority of "the Eminem show" which was a classic album. He fell off faster than any produced I can remember and then pretty much gave up doin beats. But at one point, he was amongst the hottest in the game.
Their idea of production over there is getting a beat, making changes to it and then getting the production credit.
DRE THE GOAT
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Eminem was actually on fire in terms of production around 2002-2003....he seemed to be learnin the ropes from Dre and even produced a majority of "the Eminem show" which was a classic album. He fell off faster than any produced I can remember and then pretty much gave up doin beats. But at one point, he was amongst the hottest in the game.
yeah.. and Em was doing even more than that... he had a lot of stellar production on Devil's Night... and the two tracks he produced on 8 Mile, the title track and "Lose Yourself" are all time classics. I mean, "Lose Yourself" is on the level of "Dear Mama" and "G Thang" in terms of greatest hip-hop songs of all-time. And don't forget Em was even doing some outside production like "The Cross" on Nas' God's Son album was stellar, and I believe he even probably wrote and laid reference vocals for Nas on that track and all Nas had to do was just record his vocals, if you listen it really sounds like somethin Em wrote rather than Nas. I forget a lot of other outside tracks now, but no doubt he was on far with the production from 00' up until Encore came out and he started to fall off.
But part of the problem was I think Loyal to the Game came out in 04' which was around the time of Encore and the time Em started falling off. Had he done it when he was still in his prime a year or two earlier he could of made chicken salad out of chicken shit (the scraps he had to work with). The tracks he did for the Pac documentary soundtrack were done closer to his prime and they are superior to his work on Loyal to the Game
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Eminem was actually on fire in terms of production around 2002-2003....he seemed to be learnin the ropes from Dre and even produced a majority of "the Eminem show" which was a classic album. He fell off faster than any produced I can remember and then pretty much gave up doin beats. But at one point, he was amongst the hottest in the game.
But part of the problem was I think Loyal to the Game came out in 04' which was around the time of Encore and the time Em started falling off. Had he done it when he was still in his prime a year or two earlier he could of made chicken salad out of chicken shit (the scraps he had to work with). The tracks he did for the Pac documentary soundtrack were done closer to his prime and they are superior to his work on Loyal to the Game
No i dont agree with that. Em's "productions" all have the same sound, the same feel and the same concept behind them. They would never have suited Pac...ever!
The tracks he made for Resurrection were awful too...would sound ok with Em, D12 and all those guys on but never for Pac...all Eminems beats are like marching music. Never suited to Pac's
style.
Plus i dont get why you keep going on about the "scraps" like that is the only reason the album was bad? Thats got nothing to do with the beats or the fact he pitched up his vocals to fit the beats.
If Em was a good producer and not a one style wonder he could have made a dope 2Pac album with whatever they gave him
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Eminem was actually on fire in terms of production around 2002-2003....he seemed to be learnin the ropes from Dre and even produced a majority of "the Eminem show" which was a classic album. He fell off faster than any produced I can remember and then pretty much gave up doin beats. But at one point, he was amongst the hottest in the game.
But part of the problem was I think Loyal to the Game came out in 04' which was around the time of Encore and the time Em started falling off. Had he done it when he was still in his prime a year or two earlier he could of made chicken salad out of chicken shit (the scraps he had to work with). The tracks he did for the Pac documentary soundtrack were done closer to his prime and they are superior to his work on Loyal to the Game
No i dont agree with that. Em's "productions" all have the same sound, the same feel and the same concept behind them. They would never have suited Pac...ever!
The tracks he made for Resurrection were awful too...would sound ok with Em, D12 and all those guys on but never for Pac...all Eminems beats are like marching music. Never suited to Pac's
style.
Plus i dont get why you keep going on about the "scraps" like that is the only reason the album was bad? Thats got nothing to do with the beats or the fact he pitched up his vocals to fit the beats.
If Em was a good producer and not a one style wonder he could have made a dope 2Pac album with whatever they gave him
em had his own sound, no doubt.....but u could say the same about pretty much any other producer. whether they fit pac's style is debatable, but we never really got to heard em at his best producing a pac joint..the closest was "dyin 2 live" which was a moderate hit.
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em had his own sound, no doubt.....but u could say the same about pretty much any other producer. whether they fit pac's style is debatable, but we never really got to heard em at his best producing a pac joint..the closest was "dyin 2 live" which was a moderate hit.
Right.. every producer has their own style... and maybe Em's doesn't fit as well with Pac.. and it's not the same magic that Hutch and the others who worked on previous posthumous releases were able to pull off.
Em, more than any other rapper, has delved into a lot of the same themes as Pac. When it comes to expressing pain, anger, self-doubt, hopelessness, going Krazy—the pathos. But I can't picture Pac rappin over a track like "Soldier" or "Cleaning Out My Closet" or any of them joints.
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Em uses ghost producers.
Dre doesn't work with dead artists. He would never do a Pac or Eazy E album.
I thought the song Henessey wasn't bad. It was pretty lame to put dudes on Pac's tracks that he didn't even know. They coulda grabbed Spice 1, E-40, etc..
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Em uses ghost producers.
Who doesn't?
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I remember there were also rumors about Kanye producing tracks for that CD along Dre and Em - shit was terrible top to bottom tho.
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"Po Nigga Blues (Scott Storch Remix)" was great though. I love that song.
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em production sounds the same
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Eminem was actually on fire in terms of production around 2002-2003....he seemed to be learnin the ropes from Dre and even produced a majority of "the Eminem show" which was a classic album. He fell off faster than any produced I can remember and then pretty much gave up doin beats. But at one point, he was amongst the hottest in the game.
But part of the problem was I think Loyal to the Game came out in 04' which was around the time of Encore and the time Em started falling off. Had he done it when he was still in his prime a year or two earlier he could of made chicken salad out of chicken shit (the scraps he had to work with). The tracks he did for the Pac documentary soundtrack were done closer to his prime and they are superior to his work on Loyal to the Game
No i dont agree with that. Em's "productions" all have the same sound, the same feel and the same concept behind them. They would never have suited Pac...ever!
The tracks he made for Resurrection were awful too...would sound ok with Em, D12 and all those guys on but never for Pac...all Eminems beats are like marching music. Never suited to Pac's
style.
Plus i dont get why you keep going on about the "scraps" like that is the only reason the album was bad? Thats got nothing to do with the beats or the fact he pitched up his vocals to fit the beats.
If Em was a good producer and not a one style wonder he could have made a dope 2Pac album with whatever they gave him
em had his own sound, no doubt.....but u could say the same about pretty much any other producer. whether they fit pac's style is debatable, but we never really got to heard em at his best producing a pac joint..the closest was "dyin 2 live" which was a moderate hit.
Em did have his own sound but all his productions were virtually the same two or three tracks over and over again just changed a little bit.
As for producers having their own sound...the real producers dont, they can make 10 tracks and they all sound different.
The flash pan producers that are "here today, gone tomorrow" do have their own sound and thats why they dont have a long shelf life
because they cant make anything out side of that sound and it gets old quick. Thats why Em's productions were hot for a year or two
then they ran out of steam
Real producers keep going for 10, 20, 30 years
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Bullshit, the goat producers, Quik, Dre, battlecat, timbaland, khayree, premo etc all have a signature sound that you can recognize them by off top
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Bullshit, the goat producers, Quik, Dre, battlecat, timbaland, khayree, premo etc all have a signature sound that you can recognize them by off top
Im not sure if you totally understand my point.
If you dont know who Dre is and was given The Chronic to listen to, then 2001 then Compton you wouldnt think
they all sound the same and they were made by the same person. Dre has a certain sound for a whilst then changes it up and progresses and you
only have to listen to one track from each year he was around to see what i mean by that
Quik does the same as Dre. He has a lot of songs that dont sound like he has produced...he can change it up too. He uses a lot of real instruments so thats
why those in know may be able to recognise his sound but you dont listen to every Quik song and think they all sound
like other Quik songs.
I like battlecat but i wouldnt call him a goat
Timberland...ok yeah fair play he does has a signature sound you can instantly tell and has managed to keep it going for a long time.
Although his sound was only really huge for a few years
Same with Premo but thats mainly down to the scratching and samples used
Khayree a goat?? Really??
So yeah...the good producers can flip it up. They can produce stuff that sounds like them and stuff that sounds totally different.
The not so good ones cant and almost every song sounds the same!
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Bullshit, the goat producers, Quik, Dre, battlecat, timbaland, khayree, premo etc all have a signature sound that you can recognize them by off top
Im not sure if you totally understand my point.
If you dont know who Dre is and was given The Chronic to listen to, then 2001 then Compton you wouldnt think
they all sound the same and they were made by the same person. Dre has a certain sound for a whilst then changes it up and progresses and you
only have to listen to one track from each year he was around to see what i mean by that
Quik does the same as Dre. He has a lot of songs that dont sound like he has produced...he can change it up too. He uses a lot of real instruments so thats
why those in know may be able to recognise his sound but you dont listen to every Quik song and think they all sound
like other Quik songs.
I like battlecat but i wouldnt call him a goat
Timberland...ok yeah fair play he does has a signature sound you can instantly tell and has managed to keep it going for a long time.
Although his sound was only really huge for a few years
Same with Premo but thats mainly down to the scratching and samples used
Khayree a goat?? Really??
So yeah...the good producers can flip it up. They can produce stuff that sounds like them and stuff that sounds totally different.
The not so good ones cant and almost every song sounds the same!
yea, u talkin about 10 years in between albums....but early 90s dre beats all had a similarity. early 00s dre beats all had a similarity. eminem only really produced for a short period, so he never had chance at growth, as he never carried on with his focus on production...point is, eminem beats do not all sound the same any more than your general producer. does til i collapse sound like renegade? does lose yourself sound like cleanin out my closet? he had a signature sound, no doubt, but his beats were no more repetitive than your modern day mustard beat....
btw, yes, khayree is a legend..perhaps the GOAT bay area producer.
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Bullshit, the goat producers, Quik, Dre, battlecat, timbaland, khayree, premo etc all have a signature sound that you can recognize them by off top
Im not sure if you totally understand my point.
If you dont know who Dre is and was given The Chronic to listen to, then 2001 then Compton you wouldnt think
they all sound the same and they were made by the same person. Dre has a certain sound for a whilst then changes it up and progresses and you
only have to listen to one track from each year he was around to see what i mean by that
Quik does the same as Dre. He has a lot of songs that dont sound like he has produced...he can change it up too. He uses a lot of real instruments so thats
why those in know may be able to recognise his sound but you dont listen to every Quik song and think they all sound
like other Quik songs.
I like battlecat but i wouldnt call him a goat
Timberland...ok yeah fair play he does has a signature sound you can instantly tell and has managed to keep it going for a long time.
Although his sound was only really huge for a few years
Same with Premo but thats mainly down to the scratching and samples used
Khayree a goat?? Really??
So yeah...the good producers can flip it up. They can produce stuff that sounds like them and stuff that sounds totally different.
The not so good ones cant and almost every song sounds the same!
yea, u talkin about 10 years in between albums....but early 90s dre beats all had a similarity. early 00s dre beats all had a similarity. eminem only really produced for a short period, so he never had chance at growth, as he never carried on with his focus on production...point is, eminem beats do not all sound the same any more than your general producer. does til i collapse sound like renegade? does lose yourself sound like cleanin out my closet? he had a signature sound, no doubt, but his beats were no more repetitive than your modern day mustard beat....
btw, yes, khayree is a legend..perhaps the GOAT bay area producer.
Oh yeah ...i dont dispute what your saying here. But thats also what im trying to say.
Your average producer does the same thing over and over until they burn out and there are a hell of a lot of them.
The good ones ride a certain sound for a little whilst then change it up and progress
Its the "real" producers that can switch up their styles and can have long lasting careers as producers. Flash pan producers like Em are the
"here today and gone tomorrow" producers. They cant change their style so they dont last long...because really they are not good producers.
As for the Em tracks...its funny you should mention those tracks because i nearly wrote this in my last comment
about Em's productions having 2 or at a push maybe 3 different variations...the "Loose Yourself" beat and the "What I Am" beat.
All his beats are different takes on those two kind of sounds
Till i collapse sounds similar to loose yourself and renegade sounds similar to cleaning out my closet lol
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Bullshit, the goat producers, Quik, Dre, battlecat, timbaland, khayree, premo etc all have a signature sound that you can recognize them by off top
Im not sure if you totally understand my point.
If you dont know who Dre is and was given The Chronic to listen to, then 2001 then Compton you wouldnt think
they all sound the same and they were made by the same person. Dre has a certain sound for a whilst then changes it up and progresses and you
only have to listen to one track from each year he was around to see what i mean by that
Quik does the same as Dre. He has a lot of songs that dont sound like he has produced...he can change it up too. He uses a lot of real instruments so thats
why those in know may be able to recognise his sound but you dont listen to every Quik song and think they all sound
like other Quik songs.
I like battlecat but i wouldnt call him a goat
Timberland...ok yeah fair play he does has a signature sound you can instantly tell and has managed to keep it going for a long time.
Although his sound was only really huge for a few years
Same with Premo but thats mainly down to the scratching and samples used
Khayree a goat?? Really??
So yeah...the good producers can flip it up. They can produce stuff that sounds like them and stuff that sounds totally different.
The not so good ones cant and almost every song sounds the same!
yea, u talkin about 10 years in between albums....but early 90s dre beats all had a similarity. early 00s dre beats all had a similarity. eminem only really produced for a short period, so he never had chance at growth, as he never carried on with his focus on production...point is, eminem beats do not all sound the same any more than your general producer. does til i collapse sound like renegade? does lose yourself sound like cleanin out my closet? he had a signature sound, no doubt, but his beats were no more repetitive than your modern day mustard beat....
btw, yes, khayree is a legend..perhaps the GOAT bay area producer.
Oh yeah ...i dont dispute what your saying here. But thats also what im trying to say.
Your average producer does the same thing over and over until they burn out and there are a hell of a lot of them.
The good ones ride a certain sound for a little whilst then change it up and progress
Its the "real" producers that can switch up their styles and can have long lasting careers as producers. Flash pan producers like Em are the
"here today and gone tomorrow" producers. They cant change their style so they dont last long...because really they are not good producers.
As for the Em tracks...its funny you should mention those tracks because i nearly wrote this in my last comment
about Em's productions having 2 or at a push maybe 3 different variations...the "Loose Yourself" beat and the "What I Am" beat.
All his beats are different takes on those two kind of sounds
Till i collapse sounds similar to loose yourself and renegade sounds similar to cleaning out my closet lol
Till I collapse sounds nothing like lose yourself to me .. Cleaning out my closet sounds nothin like renegade to me, outside of a similar snare. I think you're selling Eminem short. Neptune beats from that era sounded a whole lot more similar than em beats typically did.
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What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:
Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.
Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.
While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:
Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show
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i remember when this first came out, some cats thought it was produced by dre
https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og
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What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:
Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.
Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.
While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:
Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show
True but you cant really give Em credit for the quality of the beats...thats dont to the guys who were actually producing and mixing them.
Em was like Puffy when it came to producing...he told the producers what he wanted it to sound like and they did it. Not sure if he was always like
that but that was how he did it in the early days when those beats where made.
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i remember when this first came out, some cats thought it was produced by dre
https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og
Naaa man...that beat stinks of Eminem. Its that typical Eminem sound..you can hear it a mile away.
As for Till I Collapse and Loose Yourself not sounding alike..they do. They both have the exact same structure.
Start off with the little guitar riff...vocals come in with guitar and "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bass...builds then the 4X4 drum loop
comes in with the rapping. Not identical to Loose Yourself but exactly the same template with little bits changed, different notes etc.
Same with Cleaning Out My Closet & Renegade..same template. Same trippy eerie diminished notes and keys. Just different instruments used and
a slightly different melody.
An you can do that will all Ems productions...there are around 3 different styles that he has. That Xzibit track "My Name" is the same...thats the
"Loose Yourself" beat again just slowed down. Plucky guitars and the "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bassline and 4x4 drum loop.,.the only difference
with that one is it has the Dre string stabs at the end of every bar.
Your right about Neptunes too...they were the same. Thats why they were only on top for a few years before fizzling out.
Same can be said for a lot of others who were on top for a little whilst...KLC, Mannie Fresh are another two off the top of head
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i remember when this first came out, some cats thought it was produced by dre
https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og
Naaa man...that beat stinks of Eminem. Its that typical Eminem sound..you can hear it a mile away.
As for Till I Collapse and Loose Yourself not sounding alike..they do. They both have the exact same structure.
Start off with the little guitar riff...vocals come in with guitar and "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bass...builds then the 4X4 drum loop
comes in with the rapping. Not identical to Loose Yourself but exactly the same template with little bits changed, different notes etc.
Same with Cleaning Out My Closet & Renegade..same template. Same trippy eerie diminished notes and keys. Just different instruments used and
a slightly different melody.
An you can do that will all Ems productions...there are around 3 different styles that he has. That Xzibit track "My Name" is the same...thats the
"Loose Yourself" beat again just slowed down. Plucky guitars and the "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bassline and 4x4 drum loop.,.the only difference
with that one is it has the Dre string stabs at the end of every bar.
Your right about Neptunes too...they were the same. Thats why they were only on top for a few years before fizzling out.
Same can be said for a lot of others who were on top for a little whilst...KLC, Mannie Fresh are another two off the top of head
yep it has that same o em sound
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i remember when this first came out, some cats thought it was produced by dre
https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og
Naaa man...that beat stinks of Eminem. Its that typical Eminem sound..you can hear it a mile away.
As for Till I Collapse and Loose Yourself not sounding alike..they do. They both have the exact same structure.
Start off with the little guitar riff...vocals come in with guitar and "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bass...builds then the 4X4 drum loop
comes in with the rapping. Not identical to Loose Yourself but exactly the same template with little bits changed, different notes etc.
Same with Cleaning Out My Closet & Renegade..same template. Same trippy eerie diminished notes and keys. Just different instruments used and
a slightly different melody.
An you can do that will all Ems productions...there are around 3 different styles that he has. That Xzibit track "My Name" is the same...thats the
"Loose Yourself" beat again just slowed down. Plucky guitars and the "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bassline and 4x4 drum loop.,.the only difference
with that one is it has the Dre string stabs at the end of every bar.
Your right about Neptunes too...they were the same. Thats why they were only on top for a few years before fizzling out.
Same can be said for a lot of others who were on top for a little whilst...KLC, Mannie Fresh are another two off the top of head
Same template with different outcome. Again, most producers use a similar template for a majority of their beats. This is nothing new..neptunes fizzled out? Lol pharell is bigger than ever, and his beats still got the same sound, give or take, so I duno where that came from.
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What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:
Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.
Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.
While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:
Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show
True but you cant really give Em credit for the quality of the beats...thats dont to the guys who were actually producing and mixing them.
Em was like Puffy when it came to producing...he told the producers what he wanted it to sound like and they did it. Not sure if he was always like
that but that was how he did it in the early days when those beats where made.
Yea... That's what producing is. Pretty sure he still gets credit, as even you said, you can tell an em beat from a mile a way. You can't really play both sides of the fence here.
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Em uses ghost producers.
Who doesn't?
necro
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Whos heard King Gordy's The Entity? that's a straight up horrorcore album and Eminem produced the whole thing. You can still tell its Eminem behind the boards but a lot of the production still has its twists.
I've always thought Eminem was best assisting other producers though. Take the SSLP which he assited Dre on, or "Not Afraid", "Many Men", the beats he was involved in on the Bad Meets Evil EP.
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Whos heard King Gordy's The Entity? that's a straight up horrorcore album and Eminem produced the whole thing. You can still tell its Eminem behind the boards but a lot of the production still has its twists.
I've always thought Eminem was best assisting other producers though. Take the SSLP which he assited Dre on, or "Not Afraid", "Many Men", the beats he was involved in on the Bad Meets Evil EP.
Eminem didn't produce all of The Entity, only like 4 or 5 songs, "Nightmares", "The Pain", "Pass Me A Lighter" and 1 or 2 others. Jeff and Mark Bass and Steve King did do some of the others and Eminem was the executive producer of it, The 45 King who did "Stan" also produced on it. To this day that's one of my favourite albums ever made tho', "Nightmares" is great.
I also really like that "All I Think About" joint he did with Royce on that soundtrack recently, Eminem produced that.
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What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:
Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.
Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.
While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:
Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show
True but you cant really give Em credit for the quality of the beats...thats dont to the guys who were actually producing and mixing them.
Em was like Puffy when it came to producing...he told the producers what he wanted it to sound like and they did it. Not sure if he was always like
that but that was how he did it in the early days when those beats where made.
Yea... That's what producing is. Pretty sure he still gets credit, as even you said, you can tell an em beat from a mile a way. You can't really play both sides of the fence here.
Yeah i know what you mean but its not like the old days when the orchestrator of the track is known as the producer and the ones who actually
make it are known as the engineers etc. These days you mainly just call the beat maker and the one doing all the work the producer...espeically with how easy it is to do in this day and age.
Yeah you can tell an Em beat stright away, the melodies the way they are constructed and sequenced etc. What i meant by that comment is you cant give Em credit for the
production quality of the beats..because thats down to the guys actually doing it. Finding the right sounds, mixing them in, Eqing, mastering etc..we know Em does none of that or at least
her didnt back then
As for the Neptunes...they did fizzle out. Yeah Pharrel carried on with a similar path but that old Neptues style and them as a group did not last long on top. Pharrel just
took it to another level and progressed the sound over the years. Then there was NERD too
But i see that you have a different opinion about Ems productions to me and thats cool! Everybody see's things a different way and hears things a different way
We both know our shit...just have a different opinion of some things!
-
What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:
Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.
Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.
While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:
Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show
True but you cant really give Em credit for the quality of the beats...thats dont to the guys who were actually producing and mixing them.
Em was like Puffy when it came to producing...he told the producers what he wanted it to sound like and they did it. Not sure if he was always like
that but that was how he did it in the early days when those beats where made.
Yea... That's what producing is. Pretty sure he still gets credit, as even you said, you can tell an em beat from a mile a way. You can't really play both sides of the fence here.
Yeah i know what you mean but its not like the old days when the orchestrator of the track is known as the producer and the ones who actually
make it are known as the engineers etc. These days you mainly just call the beat maker and the one doing all the work the producer...espeically with how easy it is to do in this day and age.
Yeah you can tell an Em beat stright away, the melodies the way they are constructed and sequenced etc. What i meant by that comment is you cant give Em credit for the
production quality of the beats..because thats down to the guys actually doing it. Finding the right sounds, mixing them in, Eqing, mastering etc..we know Em does none of that or at least
her didnt back then
As for the Neptunes...they did fizzle out. Yeah Pharrel carried on with a similar path but that old Neptues style and them as a group did not last long on top. Pharrel just
took it to another level and progressed the sound over the years. Then there was NERD too
But i see that you have a different opinion about Ems productions to me and thats cool! Everybody see's things a different way and hears things a different way
We both know our shit...just have a different opinion of some things!
EQing and mastering is part of post-production, not production.. That's what mixing is for. All great producers have assistance wit these things, some more than others, no doubt. But nothin should ever go against the man in charge wit the final sound (the producer) soley due to the fact that he has more resources. An Eminem beat is an Eminem beat. Period.. All that ghost producing talk is bs, people try sayin the same thing about Dre, that he doesn't produce his beats, when in actuality, he's the epitome of a producer. People who say that r usually the ones who don't understand, anyone can make a dope lil beat loop, construction and sound, that's what actually matters in terms of producing,
-
What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:
Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.
Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.
While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:
Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show
True but you cant really give Em credit for the quality of the beats...thats dont to the guys who were actually producing and mixing them.
Em was like Puffy when it came to producing...he told the producers what he wanted it to sound like and they did it. Not sure if he was always like
that but that was how he did it in the early days when those beats where made.
Yea... That's what producing is. Pretty sure he still gets credit, as even you said, you can tell an em beat from a mile a way. You can't really play both sides of the fence here.
Yeah i know what you mean but its not like the old days when the orchestrator of the track is known as the producer and the ones who actually
make it are known as the engineers etc. These days you mainly just call the beat maker and the one doing all the work the producer...espeically with how easy it is to do in this day and age.
Yeah you can tell an Em beat stright away, the melodies the way they are constructed and sequenced etc. What i meant by that comment is you cant give Em credit for the
production quality of the beats..because thats down to the guys actually doing it. Finding the right sounds, mixing them in, Eqing, mastering etc..we know Em does none of that or at least
her didnt back then
As for the Neptunes...they did fizzle out. Yeah Pharrel carried on with a similar path but that old Neptues style and them as a group did not last long on top. Pharrel just
took it to another level and progressed the sound over the years. Then there was NERD too
But i see that you have a different opinion about Ems productions to me and thats cool! Everybody see's things a different way and hears things a different way
We both know our shit...just have a different opinion of some things!
EQing and mastering is part of post-production, not production.. That's what mixing is for. All great producers have assistance wit these things, some more than others, no doubt. But nothin should ever go against the man in charge wit the final sound (the producer) soley due to the fact that he has more resources. An Eminem beat is an Eminem beat. Period.. All that ghost producing talk is bs, people try sayin the same thing about Dre, that he doesn't produce his beats, when in actuality, he's the epitome of a producer. People who say that r usually the ones who don't understand, anyone can make a dope lil beat loop, construction and sound, that's what actually matters in terms of producing,
Its totally different now though and has been for quite a whilst. Back in the days when it was all analogue studios it did take 3 or 4 people to make a track.
Now its easy to do it alone...you mix master and eq whilst you are going along creating the beat then at the end you do a post master and maybe a post mixdown again
if needed too.
Ive been a professional producer and engineer for 12 years now and that was even the case when i first started out.
Maybe at a push somebody may use an outside mastering engineer to master the sound but even mastering is easy to do yourself with the ease of access
we have to the tools needed.
These days the ghost producer thing is a big deal because its so easy to make a record if you put the time into learning the craft...its not like the old days
in the 80's & 90's when gear was expensive and the only way you could make a beat was by hiring a studio and it takes a room full of people to finish a track.
Ive built a full studio at home for just 3 grand...and that is spare change compared to what it used to be with analogue
The thing with the great producers is they come from the old days when they worked in a team to create music so if they still do that now
its prob because they feel more comfortable working with somebody else or they dont actually have the skils to do it all themselves.
Like with Dre...he is great at making music. But he most likely does not have the skills to do it all himslef and feels he works better when he has
the input of other people working alongside him
Em is more of a song writer..yeah id say producer too but thats in the old skool term of producing. He is not a producer by todays standards.
But he should not get full credit for how well the beats are produced (that wasnt him)
unless they are talking about how well the melodies and musical elements are written...if you knw what i mean