West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: MOBNigga06 on January 07, 2016, 10:45:07 PM
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I rarely listen to these two albums straight through, but I decided recently to play them in their entirety for the first time in a few years. Listening to them again left me with a few thoughts and questions:
1) Why is the sound quality and the mastering so bad on these albums? Many of Pac's unreleased tracks from this era sound cleaner than what was released. Representin' 93 is a dope song lyrically, but whoever engineered or mastered it should have been shot, it sounds so shitty.
2) Is Five Deadly Venoms the only song that Pac recorded with Treach? Strange that two guys who were so close recorded such little music together.
3) Stretch was a hit-or-miss producer who improved over time. The man made some classic beats - like Pain and It Hurtz the Most - but his early productions can be pretty lackluster and primitive.
4) I had almost forgot that Ice Cube was featured on Strictly 4 My Niggaz. It's weird how Tupac almost never talked about working with Ice Cube or being close with him. My guess is that they didn't really like each other, even before Pac spoke out against Bow Down. In fact, if you look at Pac's career overall, it seems he never really liked to work with rappers who were bigger stars than him. Most of the time he collaborated with virtual unknowns (Stretch, Outlawz, Nuttso, etc.) or relatively minor rappers (Richie Rich, E-40, MC Breed). And when he did work with rappers who were really on his level of superstardom, like Dr. Dre or Snoop Dogg, it always led to tension. Point being: Pac was the kind of guy who always needed to be the alpha male and the bigger nigga in a situation. He probably did not like feeling beneath Ice Cube when they collaborated in 93.
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2) Is Five Deadly Venoms the only song that Pac recorded with Treach? Strange that two guys who were so close recorded such little music together.
No, Thereīs One More: "Loyal To The Game OG" ft. Treach & Riddler Of DBGīz.Yeah Itīs Strange.Same Wit Yo-Yo
3) Stretch was a hit-or-miss producer who improved over time. The man made some classic beats - like Pain and It Hurtz the Most - but his early productions can be pretty lackluster and primitive.
Agree.Beats On 2N & S4MN Werenīt (That) Good, Except Few Ones
4) I had almost forgot that Ice Cube was featured on Strictly 4 My Niggaz. It's weird how Tupac almost never talked about working with Ice Cube or being close with him. My guess is that they didn't really like each other, even before Pac spoke out against Bow Down. In fact, if you look at Pac's career overall, it seems he never really liked to work with rappers who were bigger stars than him. Most of the time he collaborated with virtual unknowns (Stretch, Outlawz, Nuttso, etc.) or relatively minor rappers (Richie Rich, E-40, MC Breed). And when he did work with rappers who were really on his level of superstardom, like Dr. Dre or Snoop Dogg, it always led to tension. Point being: Pac was the kind of guy who always needed to be the alpha male and the bigger nigga in a situation. He probably did not like feeling beneath Ice Cube when they collaborated in 93.
Like Ice-T Said: Pac Didnīt Need Big Names To Make It, Ice-T & Cube Being On S4MN Was Straight Out Of Respect, He Wanted To Have OGīs On His Album, Ice-T Also Said: "You Can Make A Song With Your Gardener And Make It Hot".
NOW MY QUESTION: Why There Were No Death Row Artists Mentioned On "Repī93", Or On "Old School
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2pacalypse is a perfect album but needs to be remastered
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Id have to go with #3. I think Pac gets better with time and better beats. I listen to it and didnt like the beat. I never really listen to the lyrics which is what makes the song. It was actually a culture shock at first then when this 2nd n third album drip I became the biggest fan. It was really dope and worth the $$
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Ashes to Ashes is a rumored song that supposedly has Treach, if I remember correctly. Long rumored but never confirmed.
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Strictly i cant really listen to that anymore only couple songs same as 2Pacalypse Now beats too outdated
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Strictly i cant really listen to that anymore only couple songs same as 2Pacalypse Now beats too outdated
wack.
Ashes to Ashes is a rumored song that supposedly has Treach, if I remember correctly. Long rumored but never confirmed.
yep, supposedly a "iiconz" leftover, but never confirmed (someone get at treach),thatīs why i didnīt mention it.
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Treach was also featured on Loyal to the Game from the above the rim soundtrk. I would speculate also that Ashes to Ashes is Mourn till I Join you.
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I dont really listen to 2Pacalypse Now that much..i only like a few tracks on there. That album is far too dated and has not aged well.
I quite like Strictly 4 My Niggaz and listen to it quite often but again the beats and musical styles on that album are very dated.
The first two albums really capture that early 90s sound and to be fair that sound from the late 80s and early 90s has not aged well like music from 1994 - 2000 has.
Strictly is a pretty cool album though and is a big leap forward from 2Pacalype Now.
Speaking of mastering and mixdowns does anybody notice how "Keep Your Head Up" is much louder and cleaner sounding then all the other tracks on the album?
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I dont really listen to 2Pacalypse Now that much..i only like a few tracks on there. That album is far too dated and has not aged well.
I quite like Strictly 4 My Niggaz and listen to it quite often but again the beats and musical styles on that album are very dated.
The first two albums really capture that early 90s sound and to be fair that sound from the late 80s and early 90s has not aged well like music from 1994 - 2000 has.
Strictly is a pretty cool album though and is a big leap forward from 2Pacalype Now.
Speaking of mastering and mixdowns does anybody notice how "Keep Your Head Up" is much louder and cleaner sounding then all the other tracks on the album?
I noticed this about Keep Your Head Up. One of the annoying things about Strictly is how the songs seem almost all to be unequal in terms of loudness. Several times I had to adjust my speakers while playing it because one song will be quiet and the next will be much louder.
My impression is that both albums were cheaply mixed and mastered. Keep Your Head Up got special treatment cause they knew it would be a smash hit.
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I dont really listen to 2Pacalypse Now that much..i only like a few tracks on there. That album is far too dated and has not aged well.
I quite like Strictly 4 My Niggaz and listen to it quite often but again the beats and musical styles on that album are very dated.
The first two albums really capture that early 90s sound and to be fair that sound from the late 80s and early 90s has not aged well like music from 1994 - 2000 has.
Strictly is a pretty cool album though and is a big leap forward from 2Pacalype Now.
Speaking of mastering and mixdowns does anybody notice how "Keep Your Head Up" is much louder and cleaner sounding then all the other tracks on the album?
I noticed this about Keep Your Head Up. One of the annoying things about Strictly is how the songs seem almost all to be unequal in terms of loudness. Several times I had to adjust my speakers while playing it because one song will be quiet and the next will be much louder.
My impression is that both albums were cheaply mixed and mastered. Keep Your Head Up got special treatment cause they knew it would be a smash hit.
Yeah thats true..also the album as a whole was mastered very quietly. I remember back in the day when i used to make mix tapes i would avoid putting songs
from Strictly on them as the volume was a lot quieter then the other tracks i was putting on them
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I dont really listen to 2Pacalypse Now that much..i only like a few tracks on there. That album is far too dated and has not aged well.
I quite like Strictly 4 My Niggaz and listen to it quite often but again the beats and musical styles on that album are very dated.
The first two albums really capture that early 90s sound and to be fair that sound from the late 80s and early 90s has not aged well like music from 1994 - 2000 has.
Strictly is a pretty cool album though and is a big leap forward from 2Pacalype Now.
Speaking of mastering and mixdowns does anybody notice how "Keep Your Head Up" is much louder and cleaner sounding then all the other tracks on the album?
I noticed this about Keep Your Head Up. One of the annoying things about Strictly is how the songs seem almost all to be unequal in terms of loudness. Several times I had to adjust my speakers while playing it because one song will be quiet and the next will be much louder.
My impression is that both albums were cheaply mixed and mastered. Keep Your Head Up got special treatment cause they knew it would be a smash hit.
Early copies of SFMN has a different master of Keep Ya Head Up. There's a few more synths during the chorus on the original album version. The single version is much better and cleaner sounding and I think they inserted that version in future pressings of SFMN, which probably explains why it sounds like it is mastered differently.
I agree 2Pacalypse Now is starting to sound dated, but SFMN is Raw and the lyrics are crazy. Lots of songs about shooting cops and uprising and stuff. Not so political as his first album, but more like taking the streets back. I like that version of Pac. That period from SFMN and Thug Life has some great songs. The unreleased stuff around that time is great too, with so much stuff getting banned from the record labels
The Holler If Ya Hear Me OG is incredible, good beat, dope lyrics...talking about shooting and killing all the cops who beat Rodney King. Insane when you think about it, a song like that today would never get made. That's what's missing in rap these days. Everyone has gone soft.
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I dont really listen to 2Pacalypse Now that much..i only like a few tracks on there. That album is far too dated and has not aged well.
I quite like Strictly 4 My Niggaz and listen to it quite often but again the beats and musical styles on that album are very dated.
The first two albums really capture that early 90s sound and to be fair that sound from the late 80s and early 90s has not aged well like music from 1994 - 2000 has.
Strictly is a pretty cool album though and is a big leap forward from 2Pacalype Now.
Speaking of mastering and mixdowns does anybody notice how "Keep Your Head Up" is much louder and cleaner sounding then all the other tracks on the album?
I noticed this about Keep Your Head Up. One of the annoying things about Strictly is how the songs seem almost all to be unequal in terms of loudness. Several times I had to adjust my speakers while playing it because one song will be quiet and the next will be much louder.
My impression is that both albums were cheaply mixed and mastered. Keep Your Head Up got special treatment cause they knew it would be a smash hit.
Early copies of SFMN has a different master of Keep Ya Head Up. There's a few more synths during the chorus on the original album version. The single version is much better and cleaner sounding and I think they inserted that version in future pressings of SFMN, which probably explains why it sounds like it is mastered differently.
I agree 2Pacalypse Now is starting to sound dated, but SFMN is Raw and the lyrics are crazy. Lots of songs about shooting cops and uprising and stuff. Not so political as his first album, but more like taking the streets back. I like that version of Pac. That period from SFMN and Thug Life has some great songs. The unreleased stuff around that time is great too, with so much stuff getting banned from the record labels
The Holler If Ya Hear Me OG is incredible, good beat, dope lyrics...talking about shooting and killing all the cops who beat Rodney King. Insane when you think about it, a song like that today would never get made. That's what's missing in rap these days. Everyone has gone soft.
Ahh ok cool, i must have one of the later pressings of the album. I think i got it around 1995 so that explains why Kepp Your Head Up sounds better then the rest of the album.
But i agree with you about SFMN...i still enjoy listening to it.
I love tracks like Something 2 Die 4, Peep Game, Representin 93, Souljahs Revenge
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I rarely listen to these two albums straight through, but I decided recently to play them in their entirety for the first time in a few years. Listening to them again left me with a few thoughts and questions:
1) Why is the sound quality and the mastering so bad on these albums? Many of Pac's unreleased tracks from this era sound cleaner than what was released. Representin' 93 is a dope song lyrically, but whoever engineered or mastered it should have been shot, it sounds so shitty.
2) Is Five Deadly Venoms the only song that Pac recorded with Treach? Strange that two guys who were so close recorded such little music together.
3) Stretch was a hit-or-miss producer who improved over time. The man made some classic beats - like Pain and It Hurtz the Most - but his early productions can be pretty lackluster and primitive.
4) I had almost forgot that Ice Cube was featured on Strictly 4 My Niggaz. It's weird how Tupac almost never talked about working with Ice Cube or being close with him. My guess is that they didn't really like each other, even before Pac spoke out against Bow Down. In fact, if you look at Pac's career overall, it seems he never really liked to work with rappers who were bigger stars than him. Most of the time he collaborated with virtual unknowns (Stretch, Outlawz, Nuttso, etc.) or relatively minor rappers (Richie Rich, E-40, MC Breed). And when he did work with rappers who were really on his level of superstardom, like Dr. Dre or Snoop Dogg, it always led to tension. Point being: Pac was the kind of guy who always needed to be the alpha male and the bigger nigga in a situation. He probably did not like feeling beneath Ice Cube when they collaborated in 93.
Honestly believe it had to do with the fact He didn't record these albums in state of the art Facilities and he wasn't no where near the level of super stardom at that point in his career, at that point Tupac was just another rapper from Oakland. The thing with films like Tupac Resurrection or any of his docs is it gets skewed that when he got released he wasn't this huge major star in the west from the get go, that wasn't the case. Yeah he started in Juice and was doing movies, but it wasn't until Me Against The World that he really got big. Before that all the scrutiny he faced was no different then what all the other artist was going through, and his sells were basically the same, but now everyone is trying to rewrite history and make him the martyr and act like he was super big before 95.
The main thing I think is because when he died in 96 he really was the center of rap at that time, he just released what was and still is the biggest death row project, a double album that was on the fast track to reach Diamond Status the first for a real hardcore album, His was the center of the West/East beef which was and still is considered the biggest rap beef in the game.
But that was all later, in 93 it was all about Snoop Dogg, he was the biggest thing coming out in the west, but the thing is N.W.A in there solo forms still dominated the scene, and yes you had a few other Major acts (Cypress Hill for example), but Tupac wasn't on there level at that time. IMO the reason Thug Life was mixed so good is because he was already a established artist who formed his brand in the game by that point, he had connected with a bunch of people by that point.
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A lot of albums of that era have that muddy sound when it comes to the mastering, if you think Pacs albums was bad you obviously didn't cop the Wu's debut album :P
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A lot of albums of that era have that muddy sound when it comes to the mastering, if you think Pacs albums was bad you obviously didn't cop the Wu's debut album :P
Yeah thats true!
Wasnt the Wu's albums made like that on purpose though? Im sure i saw an interview with RZA back in the mid 90's
where he was explaining what he does to make the Wu tracks sounds gimey and dirty
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A lot of albums of that era have that muddy sound when it comes to the mastering, if you think Pacs albums was bad you obviously didn't cop the Wu's debut album :P
Yeah thats true!
Wasnt the Wu's albums made like that on purpose though? Im sure i saw an interview with RZA back in the mid 90's
where he was explaining what he does to make the Wu tracks sounds gimey and dirty
It was an NY thing due to the equipment they all used back then, stuff like the SP12 and Ensoniq along with the compression techniques they used. Whereas the West, either due to no old school technological allegiances, the surfeit of talented engineers that used to earn their bread mastering live groups/instruments and now turned to rap for a cheque or the fact that muddy sound = cold/grimey and crisp = hot/sunny, product of their environment thing.
Being raised on West Coast stuff all my life it was a huge change when I started listening to NY artists I was like "have these fools got wool in their ears? Wheres the separation and mixing? What no fidelity?". Compare Ice Ts Iceberg album to EPMDs debut and the difference is obvious.
Strange thing is if they went back and gave those old albums a thorough remaster (and not just a bass boost brickwalling) you wouldn't be able to listen to them as you're so used to hearing it the old way that new tracks would feel plain and strange as compressing the shit out of the tracking and mushing it all together filled in all the gaps/rough chops in the samples/bits where they didn't line it up right.
On the other hand the raw stems for Representing 93 when mixed down correctly sound beautiful, the track takes on a whole nother vibe as the sample is so nicely used and helped out with the drum break. Stuff like S4MN on the other hand sounds off as the distortion was part of the allure of the track.
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a dj on t.n dropped
2Pacalypse Now & Strictly 4 My Niggaz remasters
he did a really good job
https://www.sendspace.com/file/1aigg2
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I dont really listen to 2Pacalypse Now that much..i only like a few tracks on there. That album is far too dated and has not aged well.
I quite like Strictly 4 My Niggaz and listen to it quite often but again the beats and musical styles on that album are very dated.
The first two albums really capture that early 90s sound and to be fair that sound from the late 80s and early 90s has not aged well like music from 1994 - 2000 has.
Strictly is a pretty cool album though and is a big leap forward from 2Pacalype Now.
Speaking of mastering and mixdowns does anybody notice how "Keep Your Head Up" is much louder and cleaner sounding then all the other tracks on the album?
I noticed this about Keep Your Head Up. One of the annoying things about Strictly is how the songs seem almost all to be unequal in terms of loudness. Several times I had to adjust my speakers while playing it because one song will be quiet and the next will be much louder.
My impression is that both albums were cheaply mixed and mastered. Keep Your Head Up got special treatment cause they knew it would be a smash hit.
Early copies of SFMN has a different master of Keep Ya Head Up. There's a few more synths during the chorus on the original album version. The single version is much better and cleaner sounding and I think they inserted that version in future pressings of SFMN, which probably explains why it sounds like it is mastered differently.
I agree 2Pacalypse Now is starting to sound dated, but SFMN is Raw and the lyrics are crazy. Lots of songs about shooting cops and uprising and stuff. Not so political as his first album, but more like taking the streets back. I like that version of Pac. That period from SFMN and Thug Life has some great songs. The unreleased stuff around that time is great too, with so much stuff getting banned from the record labels
The Holler If Ya Hear Me OG is incredible, good beat, dope lyrics...talking about shooting and killing all the cops who beat Rodney King. Insane when you think about it, a song like that today would never get made. That's what's missing in rap these days. Everyone has gone soft.
All the talk of cop killing was one of the things that stood out most when I relistened to 2Pacalypse Now & Strictly 4 My Nigga. It seems to have been Pac's obsession during those years. It gets kinda repetitive. How many songs about killing cops do we need to hear? Pac became a better artist when he started to embrace the fun and lighthearted themes of G-Funk inspired music in 94. The Thug Life album gave us a hint of the direction he was moving in, and then Me Against the World changed the game forever and cemented Pac's position as the greatest rapper of his era.
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2N & S4MN Was More About The Message, You Know Pac Was On Some P.E.-S**t Back Then, The Real Pac Started From Thug Life Album.
Why He Didnīt Shout-Out Death Row On Reppin 93?
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VN0hzbzCVTo
Loyal 2 the game. 2-Pac, Treach & Mopreme..... Above the rim ost
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN0hzbzCVTo
Loyal 2 the game. 2-Pac, Treach & Mopreme..... Above the rim ost
thatīs riddler of dbgīz.
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the ORIGINAL loyal to the game song was pac and syke
then somehow riddler remixed it and treach got added too, syke removed
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I dont really listen to 2Pacalypse Now that much..i only like a few tracks on there. That album is far too dated and has not aged well.
I quite like Strictly 4 My Niggaz and listen to it quite often but again the beats and musical styles on that album are very dated.
The first two albums really capture that early 90s sound and to be fair that sound from the late 80s and early 90s has not aged well like music from 1994 - 2000 has.
Strictly is a pretty cool album though and is a big leap forward from 2Pacalype Now.
Speaking of mastering and mixdowns does anybody notice how "Keep Your Head Up" is much louder and cleaner sounding then all the other tracks on the album?
I noticed this about Keep Your Head Up. One of the annoying things about Strictly is how the songs seem almost all to be unequal in terms of loudness. Several times I had to adjust my speakers while playing it because one song will be quiet and the next will be much louder.
My impression is that both albums were cheaply mixed and mastered. Keep Your Head Up got special treatment cause they knew it would be a smash hit.
Early copies of SFMN has a different master of Keep Ya Head Up. There's a few more synths during the chorus on the original album version. The single version is much better and cleaner sounding and I think they inserted that version in future pressings of SFMN, which probably explains why it sounds like it is mastered differently.
I agree 2Pacalypse Now is starting to sound dated, but SFMN is Raw and the lyrics are crazy. Lots of songs about shooting cops and uprising and stuff. Not so political as his first album, but more like taking the streets back. I like that version of Pac. That period from SFMN and Thug Life has some great songs. The unreleased stuff around that time is great too, with so much stuff getting banned from the record labels
The Holler If Ya Hear Me OG is incredible, good beat, dope lyrics...talking about shooting and killing all the cops who beat Rodney King. Insane when you think about it, a song like that today would never get made. That's what's missing in rap these days. Everyone has gone soft.
All the talk of cop killing was one of the things that stood out most when I relistened to 2Pacalypse Now & Strictly 4 My Nigga. It seems to have been Pac's obsession during those years. It gets kinda repetitive. How many songs about killing cops do we need to hear? Pac became a better artist when he started to embrace the fun and lighthearted themes of G-Funk inspired music in 94. The Thug Life album gave us a hint of the direction he was moving in, and then Me Against the World changed the game forever and cemented Pac's position as the greatest rapper of his era.
That was during the Era he was comiing outta Oakland and had his ass beat by the Police and when he shot the 2 off duty cops, so it makes sense. Honestly wish we had more Cop Killing/Fuck Tha Police type of anthems. Sorely missed today, despite the Riots and police brutality, the cities (like Baltimore for example) all used the original Westcoast albums (like Predator/N.W.A) for there soundtracks, none have produced anything antiestablishment. Funny enough last "cop killer" track I heard was from The Game (westcoast) , and that was for the shawn bell incident, and even then the lyrics weren't 100% on point, nor was the beat really aggresive.
for all the shit New York artist talk about the conscious side of rap being the elite with the G shit being ignorant and detrimental to the genre, there bitch asses haven't produced content no where near that political, and even they ended up degenerating into wannabe Mafia raps, which is seriously no different in terms what G-Rap was saying except in atheistic
It was also during that Era they tried to blame Ice T, N.W.A and 2pac for 3 different instances of cop killings, each instant is alleged that the killer had there respective albums on em when they did the shooting (each was during a traffic stop apparently also). Before you get all conspiracy on me, the incidents were in 3 different states, during different years, and yes all 3 were basically the governments attempt at using there songs to ban rap, which was a real issue at the time.
Favorite from the first album was "Violent"
Favorite from the Second, is way harder to choose, because all the songs were pretty much equal, except for the "I Get around" which was put on there to help sell the record.
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The Holler If Ya Hear Me OG is incredible, good beat, dope lyrics...talking about shooting and killing all the cops who beat Rodney King. Insane when you think about it, a song like that today would never get made. That's what's missing in rap these days. Everyone has gone soft.
ACTUALLY SONGS LIKE THAT GET MADE ALL THE TIME......PARIS JUS DID 1 ON HIS NEW ALBUM CALLED "NIGHT OF THE LONG KNIVES".
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The Holler If Ya Hear Me OG is incredible, good beat, dope lyrics...talking about shooting and killing all the cops who beat Rodney King. Insane when you think about it, a song like that today would never get made. That's what's missing in rap these days. Everyone has gone soft.
ACTUALLY SONGS LIKE THAT GET MADE ALL THE TIME......PARIS JUS DID 1 ON HIS NEW ALBUM CALLED "NIGHT OF THE LONG KNIVES".
WHO??????????
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The Holler If Ya Hear Me OG is incredible, good beat, dope lyrics...talking about shooting and killing all the cops who beat Rodney King. Insane when you think about it, a song like that today would never get made. That's what's missing in rap these days. Everyone has gone soft.
ACTUALLY SONGS LIKE THAT GET MADE ALL THE TIME......PARIS JUS DID 1 ON HIS NEW ALBUM CALLED "NIGHT OF THE LONG KNIVES".
WHO??????????
U HAVENT HEARD OF PARIS?? THAT MIGHT CALL FOR ANOTHER BANNING.
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The Holler If Ya Hear Me OG is incredible, good beat, dope lyrics...talking about shooting and killing all the cops who beat Rodney King. Insane when you think about it, a song like that today would never get made. That's what's missing in rap these days. Everyone has gone soft.
ACTUALLY SONGS LIKE THAT GET MADE ALL THE TIME......PARIS JUS DID 1 ON HIS NEW ALBUM CALLED "NIGHT OF THE LONG KNIVES".
WHO??????????
U HAVENT HEARD OF PARIS?? THAT MIGHT CALL FOR ANOTHER BANNING.
lol firm but fair.