West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Connection => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite on August 23, 2024, 11:17:50 AM
-
I talked about this shit before but the economics of the music business is strange. And what's even more strange than that is that Snoop doesn't even know any more about it than we or I do. If you look at my poston here I was ranting about the 90's made sense because you had benchmarks—you knew like if they sold 100,000 Independent they made profit, and 300,000 on a major meant they made money, and platinum then you were rich. It all made sense.
Now Snoop is saying the exact same shit I said, and I'm just a fuccin fan and yet he don't know any more than I do and he's got his own label and shit like that!!
But I kept fuccin saying on here, aside from doing shows, how does any artist actually make any money? And now, even Snoop is saying the same shit. You would think Snoop's music is streamed all day long all over the world he has fans and classics and hits he's one of the top artists of all time of any genre.
Yet even he is saying he ain't gettin paid off streaming. Even he is saying he don't even know how to get paid off streaming !! He is even saying he doesn't know how many streams he is even getting !!
This shit is nutz..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rfeRyN6hOQ
-
I talked about this shit before but the economics of the music business is strange. And what's even more strange than that is that Snoop doesn't even know any more about it than we or I do. If you look at my poston here I was ranting about the 90's made sense because you had benchmarks—you knew like if they sold 100,000 Independent they made profit, and 300,000 on a major meant they made money, and platinum then you were rich. It all made sense.
Now Snoop is saying the exact same shit I said, and I'm just a fuccin fan and yet he don't know any more than I do and he's got his own label and shit like that!!
But I kept fuccin saying on here, aside from doing shows, how does any artist actually make any money? And now, even Snoop is saying the same shit. You would think Snoop's music is streamed all day long all over the world he has fans and classics and hits he's one of the top artists of all time of any genre.
Yet even he is saying he ain't gettin paid off streaming. Even he is saying he don't even know how to get paid off streaming !! He is even saying he doesn't know how many streams he is even getting !!
This shit is nutz..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rfeRyN6hOQ
He just doesn't know the numbers as far as how many streams equates to how much money. That information is googable and he can do the math himself. I don't see what's not to understand about it. I get he feels he should be paid more but that doesn't have anything to do with there actually being a system in place to determine the amount or even how that system came about.
I would have to know who he's contractually obligated to in order to know if he's getting what he's suppose to. If you are signed to a label, that's under another label, that's under another label, you sampled, had ghostwriters etc. you could expect less money than someone who's indie and wrote/produced their own music. Their billion stream dollar amount would look different from his.
You would have to elaborate on the benchmarks. By they do you mean the artist or the labels?
You're conflating not making money from streams to not making money from music. Music is used everywhere, not just streamed online. Look into Donald Trump being sued for using Issac Haye's music. Nothing to do with streaming or touring but it's money generated. Not merch either for the record.
-
He just doesn't know the numbers as far as how many streams equates to how much money. That information is googable and he can do the math himself. I don't see what's not to understand about it. I get he feels he should be paid more but that doesn't have anything to do with there actually being a system in place to determine the amount or even how that system came about.
I would have to know who he's contractually obligated to in order to know if he's getting what he's suppose to. If you are signed to a label, that's under another label, that's under another label, you sampled, had ghostwriters etc. you could expect less money than someone who's indie and wrote/produced their own music. Their billion stream dollar amount would look different from his.
You would have to elaborate on the benchmarks. By they do you mean the artist or the labels?
You're conflating not making money from streams to not making money from music. Music is used everywhere, not just streamed online. Look into Donald Trump being sued for using Issac Haye's music. Nothing to do with streaming or touring but it's money generated. Not merch either for the record.
Well if you are saying that Snoop just isn't bright enough to look in it and figure it out then that's a different argument. But it sounds to me he's saying he doesn't even know how many streams he's getting first of all. He should know that, especially as a label owner, and even as just an artist he should have access to that.
As far as Benchmarks I was just talking about how everything made sense in the 90's because you sort of had these benchmarks for everything that aren't really used anymore...
100,000 for an Independent album you was making bread
300,000 on a Major Label you were at least turning profit
Platinum you were rich
To use an analogy in 90's sports...
MLB
.300 you were a good hitter
100 RBI's
20 plus homers
NFL
1,000 yards Rushing was a good season
100 yard game was a good game rushing
1,000 yard receiving was a good season
100 yards in a game was a good game for a receiver
you get my point. That was the 90's. Those benchmarks have all been messed up. And that's sort of what Snoop is saying. He was saying he knew in the 90's what was a sucessful album and what was making money and what wasn't. And he says now none of the shit makes sense.
-
Well if you are saying that Snoop just isn't bright enough to look in it and figure it out then that's a different argument. But it sounds to me he's saying he doesn't even know how many streams he's getting first of all. He should know that, especially as a label owner, and even as just an artist he should have access to that.
As far as Benchmarks I was just talking about how everything made sense in the 90's because you sort of had these benchmarks for everything that aren't really used anymore...
100,000 for an Independent album you was making bread
300,000 on a Major Label you were at least turning profit
Platinum you were rich
To use an analogy in 90's sports...
MLB
.300 you were a good hitter
100 RBI's
20 plus homers
NFL
1,000 yards Rushing was a good season
100 yard game was a good game rushing
1,000 yard receiving was a good season
100 yards in a game was a good game for a receiver
you get my point. That was the 90's. Those benchmarks have all been messed up. And that's sort of what Snoop is saying. He was saying he knew in the 90's what was a sucessful album and what was making money and what wasn't. And he says now none of the shit makes sense.
As to the first portion of your reply, he should know how this works. The information is out there. If he doesn't then that's on him.
I understand what you meant as far as benchmark, I just don't know from who's perspective you were speaking from. From an artist standpoint or the labels standpoint.
100,000 Independent they made profit
This is probably true for the artist and indie label.
and 300,000 on a major meant they made money
This probably isn't true for an artist and might not not be true for the label.
and platinum then you were rich
This simply isn't true for an artist and a label may not have turned a profit either. If the artist were getting seven cents per album sold, which is on the higher end of pay for artist, that is only seventy thousand dollars for the artist. Alot of artist never got anything for their albums. You hear that often. Then and now.
-
Method Man said the same on hiphopdx a few days ago.
-
streaming is great for the fans, not so great for artists
you could argue that if someone hears enough music from a certain artist they will go and purchase some of their material
but then again who these days actually purchases physical copies and who has an outlet to listen to them
I still have my CD boom box from the early 2000s where I can listen to CDs
plus you cant beat their sound quality
-
The amounts I said before might be wrong. I'm not sure, do your own homework. It might not be .07 cents it may be .70 in the scenario I posed. If so, that would mean more money for the artist. The thing is, there are people here who could answer this but choose not to.
streaming is great for the fans, not so great for artists
you could argue that if someone hears enough music from a certain artist they will go and purchase some of their material
but then again who these days actually purchases physical copies and who has an outlet to listen to them
I still have my CD boom box from the early 2000s where I can listen to CDs
plus you cant beat their sound quality
I've been meaning to ask you, did you work with Game? Are you in the industry?
-
The amounts I said before might be wrong. I'm not sure, do your own homework. It might not be .07 cents it may be .70 in the scenario I posed. If so, that would mean more money for the artist. The thing is, there are people here who could answer this but choose not to.
I've been meaning to ask you, did you work with Game? Are you in the industry?
I may be wrong but wasn't it like a $1.00 for every CD sold in the 90's?
no never met Game and not in the industry
just a long time west coast hip hop fan from Queens NY
-
I may be wrong but wasn't it like a $1.00 for every CD sold in the 90's?
no never met Game and not in the industry
just a long time west coast hip hop fan from Queens NY
If you were lucky and/or a proven name, you could get $1 per sale. Most musicians were not at that level
-
but then again who these days actually purchases physical copies and who has an outlet to listen to them
I do.
I have.
-
I do.
I have.
so do I
the point is we are the minority not the majority unfortunately
-
Still worth to release hard copys.
Stay on the westcoast:
Daz, evidence, bossolo, planet asia, dj muggs, g malone etc...
They all release cds.
Dont think they do for charity.
Dont think they are bad at bussiness.
So it has to worth to them!
-
Still worth to release hard copys.
Stay on the westcoast:
Daz, evidence, bossolo, planet asia, dj muggs, g malone etc...
They all release cds.
Dont think they do for charity.
Dont think they are bad at bussiness.
So it has to worth to them!
plus the sound quality cant be beat
and you own a physical copy of the music, with streaming you really dont own anything
if you purchase through Itunes you do but whats the point I rather just buy the CD
-
As to the first portion of your reply, he should know how this works. The information is out there. If he doesn't then that's on him.
I understand what you meant as far as benchmark, I just don't know from who's perspective you were speaking from. From an artist standpoint or the labels standpoint.
100,000 Independent they made profit
This is probably true for the artist and indie label.
and 300,000 on a major meant they made money
This probably isn't true for an artist and might not not be true for the label.
and platinum then you were rich
This simply isn't true for an artist and a label may not have turned a profit either. If the artist were getting seven cents per album sold, which is on the higher end of pay for artist, that is only seventy thousand dollars for the artist. Alot of artist never got anything for their albums. You hear that often. Then and now.
The benchmarks are kind of just in general. Obviously there are exceptions; like my favorite 90’s band is Goo Goo Dolls. Their first album had the hit “Name” and went platinum but they got screwed by the label and didn’t make money but still you can bet somebody on the label was really happy and making money. And I bet any rapper in the game if he saw news his shit was going platinum in the 90’s they was poppin bottles like “we rich!!”
Just like you could have a .300 hitter in MLB and maybe all he is hitting is singles and doesn’t walk much — and the Brad Pitt - Money Ball analytics kind of changed the perception of those 90’s benchmarks - to use an analogy - like the way MP3’s and Streaming changed the game on our old 90’s benchmarks in music.
-
The benchmarks are kind of just in general. Obviously there are exceptions; like my favorite 90’s band is Goo Goo Dolls. Their first album had the hit “Name” and went platinum but they got screwed by the label and didn’t make money but still you can bet somebody on the label was really happy and making money. And I bet any rapper in the game if he saw news his shit was going platinum in the 90’s they was poppin bottles like “we rich!!”
Just like you could have a .300 hitter in MLB and maybe all he is hitting is singles and doesn’t walk much — and the Brad Pitt - Money Ball analytics kind of changed the perception of those 90’s benchmarks - to use an analogy - like the way MP3’s and Streaming changed the game on our old 90’s benchmarks in music.
yeah you got someone now like Arraez winning consecutive batting titles and being on 3 different teams in 3 years
that would have never happened back in the day with Tony Gwynn for instance
-
Still worth to release hard copys.
Stay on the westcoast:
Daz, evidence, bossolo, planet asia, dj muggs, g malone etc...
They all release cds.
Dont think they do for charity.
Dont think they are bad at bussiness.
So it has to worth to them!
I keep trying to tell them dis. They keep saying it's not much money in physicals, which might be true... Streams aren't much money either. Merch might not be much money etc. But all of those hustles start to add up. You have to get creative with your brand these days in order to make some real money but it can be done. It's being done. I bought the limited edition Nipsey Hussle record that Walmart was selling a few years back with the hope that it will be a collector's item. I'm not a fan of his music at all.
-
I haven't bought a CD in a while
but I do know the other day that I popped in my Doggfather CD from '96 to listen to some joints I like on that album and it sounded 100x better than the digital files I had on my old computer
I mean the vocals were low on some songs but thats just how it was mixed not anything to do with the CD
-
yeah you got someone now like Arraez winning consecutive batting titles and being on 3 different teams in 3 years
that would have never happened back in the day with Tony Gwynn for instance
I'm back into MLB again this year, because the Royals are good again, which doesn't happen often.
I like the new pitch clock. I thought I'd hate it but it wasn't that bad. I went to a game in KC in July and it flowed pretty well with the pitch clock.
Gaurdians and Royals are in a heated division race right now. Bobbie Witt became a star since the second half of last season and the Royals locked him up to a lock term contract, I mean he is a shortstop who hits .350 with power and speed, what could be more valuable then that? He's still behind Judge in the MVP.
The Guardians got a closer that might be the most imposing closer I've ever seen. He throws hard and with bad intentions, if Mike Tyson was a MLB pitcher he would be this guy.
Not sure what is going on in the rest of the league because I only really follow the Royals. I saw Alrodis Chapman is pitching 104 MPH these days which is insane. Royals had him last year and we were able to trade him for an All-Star starter Cole Ragans in a sweet deal. I know out your way on the East Coast that Baltimore and the Yankees are really good they still kick the shit out of the Royals this year even with the Royals playing great ball.
We picked up Erceg, Lorenz, and a third basemen with pop Dejong at the trade deadline and we actually took over first place for one day this week !
-
streaming is great for the fans, not so great for artists
you could argue that if someone hears enough music from a certain artist they will go and purchase some of their material
but then again who these days actually purchases physical copies and who has an outlet to listen to them
I still have my CD boom box from the early 2000s where I can listen to CDs
plus you cant beat their sound quality
I wouldn't even say it's great for the fans. It's great for the casual listeners, but for the fan, what real fan is cool with leasing music? Any real fan would want to own their music (even if it's digital copies) . Streaming just leaves everything in the label's hands so when they decide to remove songs or sometimes whole albums and we have to accept it. And for the artists, they're really at the mercy of the label and/or streaming services. Snoop's right, how would he know the actual numbers? It's basically what label and/or streaming services say it is as it's no physical numbers to back up the data (like soundscan would be for the "old days). Then every streaming services pays differently as fas as royalties (no universal scale) then on top of that, 1500 streams equal one sale which is highway robery. Like how many albums are we going to listen to 1500 times when it's first released. You might stream strong for a good week until the new stuff drops the next week. At least when its purchased, a sale is a sale regardless how many times you listen to it. It's just all fucked up the things they are trying to force us to accept as a fan or as an artist.
-
I'm back into MLB again this year, because the Royals are good again, which doesn't happen often.
I like the new pitch clock. I thought I'd hate it but it wasn't that bad. I went to a game in KC in July and it flowed pretty well with the pitch clock.
Gaurdians and Royals are in a heated division race right now. Bobbie Witt became a star since the second half of last season and the Royals locked him up to a lock term contract, I mean he is a shortstop who hits .350 with power and speed, what could be more valuable then that? He's still behind Judge in the MVP.
The Guardians got a closer that might be the most imposing closer I've ever seen. He throws hard and with bad intentions, if Mike Tyson was a MLB pitcher he would be this guy.
Not sure what is going on in the rest of the league because I only really follow the Royals. I saw Alrodis Chapman is pitching 104 MPH these days which is insane. Royals had him last year and we were able to trade him for an All-Star starter Cole Ragans in a sweet deal. I know out your way on the East Coast that Baltimore and the Yankees are really good they still kick the shit out of the Royals this year even with the Royals playing great ball.
We picked up Erceg, Lorenz, and a third basemen with pop Dejong at the trade deadline and we actually took over first place for one day this week !
I saw Cole Ragans pitch against the Mets earlier this season, he is definitely the truth
Bobby Witt Jr looks like he is the best SS in MLB and pretty soon might be the face of the league
Also Lugo who was a reliever with the Mets finally got his shot to start and has been having a great year
Royals have a good young team, if not this year in coming years they seem poised to win another World Series
-
I wouldn't even say it's great for the fans. It's great for the casual listeners, but for the fan, what real fan is cool with leasing music? Any real fan would want to own their music (even if it's digital copies) . Streaming just leaves everything in the label's hands so when they decide to remove songs or sometimes whole albums and we have to accept it. And for the artists, they're really at the mercy of the label and/or streaming services. Snoop's right, how would he know the actual numbers? It's basically what label and/or streaming services say it is as it's no physical numbers to back up the data (like soundscan would be for the "old days). Then every streaming services pays differently as fas as royalties (no universal scale) then on top of that, 1500 streams equal one sale which is highway robery. Like how many albums are we going to listen to 1500 times when it's first released. You might stream strong for a good week until the new stuff drops the next week. At least when its purchased, a sale is a sale regardless how many times you listen to it. It's just all fucked up the things they are trying to force us to accept as a fan or as an artist.
I agree with everything you said
The problem is most of the young generation music fans are casuals, they have no attention span, prefer 2 minute songs and jump to the next hot artist after they get tired of their favorites
My nephew is like this, it drives me crazy
-
Streaming is never going to be massively profitable if you don't have a great cut on the deal to begin with. As far as I know, Snoop only has the Death Row name leased to him, so won't be making much from his own Death Row music streaming, but could likely create 'new' music under the DR name, but wouldn't be sought after anywhere near as the reputable songs like Gin & Juice.
It would be interesting to hear how much someone like Daz gets on his
-
I saw Cole Ragans pitch against the Mets earlier this season, he is definitely the truth
Bobby Witt Jr looks like he is the best SS in MLB and pretty soon might be the face of the league
Also Lugo who was a reliever with the Mets finally got his shot to start and has been having a great year
Royals have a good young team, if not this year in coming years they seem poised to win another World Series
Lugo was practically the best pitcher in baseball first half of the year. But like you said, he's been a reliever most of his career. So I am afraid his arm is not used to these kind of innings, there's even some concern he might have dead arm, but they keep sending him out there. Hope he is okay.
I think Royals actually got to go for it this year. After we beat the Mets in the 2015 World series (remember that?) the idea was not to go for it all but to maintain continued success. They traded away Wade Davis (the best reliever in baseball) for Jorge Soler to plan for the future. What happened? Jorge had one good year where he hit like 30 homeruns for a 100 loss team.
So my point is just that expecting "continued and sustained success" hasn't happened for the Royals since the days of George Brett.
-
Lugo was practically the best pitcher in baseball first half of the year. But like you said, he's been a reliever most of his career. So I am afraid his arm is not used to these kind of innings, there's even some concern he might have dead arm, but they keep sending him out there. Hope he is okay.
I think Royals actually got to go for it this year. After we beat the Mets in the 2015 World series (remember that?) the idea was not to go for it all but to maintain continued success. They traded away Wade Davis (the best reliever in baseball) for Jorge Soler to plan for the future. What happened? Jorge had one good year where he hit like 30 homeruns for a 100 loss team.
So my point is just that expecting "continued and sustained success" hasn't happened for the Royals since the days of George Brett.
yeah I remember when Lugo was with the Mets he always wanted to be a starter but the Mets had capable starters that time and he never got a chance to show what he is now
I think he's pitched to most innings so far in the league like 170 something so you are right he might be a little fatigued
I wouldn't mind seeing the Royals in the World Series this year... even though they beat us in 2015 they were never a team I hated like the Yankees or our division rivals the Braves...and I know we are not making it even thought we do have a shot at the Wild Card
-
yeah I remember when Lugo was with the Mets he always wanted to be a starter but the Mets had capable starters that time and he never got a chance to show what he is now
I think he's pitched to most innings so far in the league like 170 something so you are right he might be a little fatigued
I wouldn't mind seeing the Royals in the World Series this year... even though they beat us in 2015 they were never a team I hated like the Yankees or our division rivals the Braves...and I know we are not making it even thought we do have a shot at the Wild Card
What do you remember from that 2015 series? I remember everything from the Royals side. But for the Mets side, I just remember there were a couple games that could have gone either way. Your closer blew one game and then there was another game where there was some incident with the starter like he didn't want to come out of the game or something and they ended up losing.
-
What do you remember from that 2015 series? I remember everything from the Royals side. But for the Mets side, I just remember there were a couple games that could have gone either way. Your closer blew one game and then there was another game where there was some incident with the starter like he didn't want to come out of the game or something and they ended up losing.
yeah Game 1 is when our closer blew the game and the series went downhill from that
Game 5 is when Harvey refused to come out of the game and our manager left him in and blew the game as well
The Royals were definitely the better team, our strength was our pitching but it was only average in the series
and the funny thing is we thought it was the start of a great pitching staff for years to come but none of these dudes amounted to anything except for Degrom who won 2 Cy Youngs in later years
-
yeah Game 1 is when our closer blew the game and the series went downhill from that
Game 5 is when Harvey refused to come out of the game and our manager left him in and blew the game as well
The Royals were definitely the better team, our strength was our pitching but it was only average in the series
and the funny thing is we thought it was the start of a great pitching staff for years to come but none of these dudes amounted to anything except for Degrom who won 2 Cy Youngs in later years
Sometimes teams don't recover well after losing in the Championship. It seems like it either galvanizes them and they come back stronger the next year determined to win, or they sort of fall apart. I remember the Mets being good, I still think the series could have gone either way. I mean Game 1 is just so pivotal and they had it in the bag, I think that's the game Gordon hit that 9th inning homer; and really Gordon was never that great of an offensive player. Your closer should have been able to finish that one.
But ultimately when it's a 4-1 series its a decisive win for the Royals.
-
Sometimes teams don't recover well after losing in the Championship. It seems like it either galvanizes them and they come back stronger the next year determined to win, or they sort of fall apart. I remember the Mets being good, I still think the series could have gone either way. I mean Game 1 is just so pivotal and they had it in the bag, I think that's the game Gordon hit that 9th inning homer; and really Gordon was never that great of an offensive player. Your closer should have been able to finish that one.
But ultimately when it's a 4-1 series its a decisive win for the Royals.
about our closer, I agree 100%
Familia was great all season but gave it up in the biggest game of the year...definitely changed the series...not saying the Mets would have won but it would have been longer
mightve even gone 7 games who knows
-
Still worth to release hard copys.
Stay on the westcoast:
Daz, evidence, bossolo, planet asia, dj muggs, g malone etc...
They all release cds.
Dont think they do for charity.
Dont think they are bad at bussiness.
So it has to worth to them!
yea.. releasing cds makes money. like a few thousand dollars at most. but it’s mostly done to keep the brand afloat and poppin for shows etc….. because the money made off CD sales goes right back into the promo and marketing and then some.
-
yea.. releasing cds makes money. like a few thousand dollars at most. but it’s mostly done to keep the brand afloat and poppin for shows etc….. because the money made off CD sales goes right back into the promo and marketing and then some.
but it has to be more than streaming does because the artists are getting basically nothing when it comes to that right?
-
but it has to be more than streaming does because the artists are getting basically nothing when it comes to that right?
Streaming seems like such a hard way to make money to me. Like was it Suge, or Snoop, or someone was saying something like how accurate are the figures anyway? And how would you even verify that shit? I mean, of course back in the good old days it usually seemed accurate like, if everyone was rolling around bumpin the new Silk the Shocker album then I'd check the charts and sure enough that shit was hitting #1. Obviously some shit was regional, like Warren G second album actually was really popular in my suburb of KC and had to be selling out West so I just kind of thought, "well maybe he didn't sell shit (other than HighEyeCue) on the East Coast and that's why he's not platinum."
as for nowadays streaming vs. CD sales.. I would think YouTube is probably the best but Sccit obviously knows more about it than me. But even I can get thousands of views on youtube like I watch some old school basketball and find a sort of rare Rodman or Jordan clip I can post it and get views in the thousands. Of course to get money you need subscribers in the thousands, but if you are a known artist you could get 1,000 subs and start making money on music videos, interviews, and other exclusives I would think
-
but it has to be more than streaming does because the artists are getting basically nothing when it comes to that right?
exactly