West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite on July 11, 2025, 11:14:32 PM
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Thought this might be an interesting discussion/debate. Some similarities between the two projects.
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I need to revisit Doggfather before I vote
its grown on me over the years since it came out back in '96
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I need to revisit Doggfather before I vote
its grown on me over the years since it came out back in '96
I put a tie, it's so close to call, that's why I made the thread because there are so many similarities. Doggfather is just a bit darker to me with the Godfather look they were going for and the cloud over head with Pac dying and Suge getting locked up (not to mention my life at the time going from great to shit, but I don't wanna go on another rant)
Kurupt's album was more sloppy because he didn't have all the technical and label support that Snoop had with the Death Row Machine behind him in full gear. Yet; Kurupt's album was a bit brighter and more inspiring with "We Can Freak It" and linking back up with Dre was inspiring.
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Doggfather by a mile
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Doggfather by a mile
You took the words right out of my mouth.
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I put a tie, it's so close to call, that's why I made the thread because there are so many similarities. Doggfather is just a bit darker to me with the Godfather look they were going for and the cloud over head with Pac dying and Suge getting locked up (not to mention my life at the time going from great to shit, but I don't wanna go on another rant)
Kurupt's album was more sloppy because he didn't have all the technical and label support that Snoop had with the Death Row Machine behind him in full gear. Yet; Kurupt's album was a bit brighter and more inspiring with "We Can Freak It" and linking back up with Dre was inspiring.
I just listened to Doggfather...it is a dope album but a couple of things
a lot of the tracks you can barely hear what Snoop is saying...I don't know if his delivery was off or the mixing but it seems to me that its a combination of both
and why was the OG "Doggfather" changed?
this version was better imo and could have been a doper 1st single than "Snoops Upside Ya Head"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSEAux1G96g&list=RDVSEAux1G96g&start_radio=1
if you strictly put the West Coast Disc of "Kuruption!" vs "Tha Doggfather" it would be much closer I might even give the edge to Kurupt
I ultimately chose Tha Doggfather
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I just listened to Doggfather...it is a dope album but a couple of things
a lot of the tracks you can barely hear what Snoop is saying...I don't know if his delivery was off or the mixing but it seems to me that its a combination of both
and why was the OG "Doggfather" changed?
this version was better imo and could have been a doper 1st single than "Snoops Upside Ya Head"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSEAux1G96g&list=RDVSEAux1G96g&start_radio=1
if you strictly put the West Coast Disc of "Kuruption!" vs "Tha Doggfather" it would be much closer I might even give the edge to Kurupt
I ultimately chose Tha Doggfather
Doggfather was a single and the album cut was pretty solid and worthy intro he actually set the album off pretty well, it was just a little dark and of course he didn’t have a “Gin And Juice” type track to follow the intro,
in fact you could even argue he’s never made a track as good as “Gin and Juice” might be his magnum opus as a solo artist — it was a sensation — everyone from the nerds to the jocks to the cheerleaders, the suburbs the hoods was on the Snoop bandwagon when “Gin and Juice” dropped.
Can you believe they even had the entire 6th Grade at my school 🏫 go to the gymnasium for one of those big talks they used to do like when Magic got AIDS (which was lies, AIDS is a scamdemic like Coward-19) they sat us down and talked to us about AIDS well we had a big talk about “Parental Advisory” lyrics when “Gin and Juice” dropped
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Both albums were disappointing, but Kuruption was the better album. Doggfather was a huge drop off from Doggstyle with only a couple of good songs. As someone mentioned the mixing was awful and on some songs the vocal were way too low.
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Both albums were disappointing, but Kuruption was the better album. Doggfather was a huge drop off from Doggstyle with only a couple of good songs. As someone mentioned the mixing was awful and on some songs the vocal were way too low.
then vote homie you got to click the poll
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doggfather is a near classic
kuruption is a dope album
doggfather takes it
space boogie is more comparable to doggfather imo
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What are you crazy. Doggfather by far.
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Kurupt's verse on Up Jump the Boogie is better than anything on Kuruption.
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I just listened to Doggfather...it is a dope album but a couple of things
a lot of the tracks you can barely hear what Snoop is saying...I don't know if his delivery was off or the mixing but it seems to me that its a combination of both
and why was the OG "Doggfather" changed?
this version was better imo and could have been a doper 1st single than "Snoops Upside Ya Head"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSEAux1G96g&list=RDVSEAux1G96g&start_radio=1
if you strictly put the West Coast Disc of "Kuruption!" vs "Tha Doggfather" it would be much closer I might even give the edge to Kurupt
I ultimately chose Tha Doggfather
i like certain elements of this one better but the chorus gets a lil too crowded
the album version was more produced
i do like some of the sounds they took out for the final version tho
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Kurupt's verse on Up Jump the Boogie is better than anything on Kuruption.
as we used to say in the 1980's... Two-Shay! Good point, homie. Yeah, Kurupt was spitting flames on Doggfather.
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So I'm prolly one of the very few ones who rate Kuruption over Tha Doggfather, lol. Which is kinda crazy too considering the fact that Doggfather was like my 3rd or 4th rap album ever! Bought it back in '97... But I remember feeling like it was a huge letdown after I heard Doggystyle and All Eyez On Me over at friend's houses before, which made me wanna buy the newer album in the first place.
With Kuruption however I never really understood why ppl disliked it so much. Maybe it's because I enjoy my 90's East Coast just as much as I do the West Coast classics, but I also loved the whole concept and artwork. And even though the West Coast disc went way harder then the EC one, I still enjoyed the whole project overall. Of course Tha Streetz... is a far better album, but Kuruption is not bad at all. Definitely better than Doggfather imo.I just can't with Snoop's whisper flow on that album :kanyeshrug:
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So I'm prolly one of the very few ones who rate Kuruption over Tha Doggfather, lol. Which is kinda crazy too considering the fact that Doggfather was like my 3rd or 4th rap album ever! Bought it back in '97... But I remember feeling like it was a huge letdown after I heard Doggystyle and All Eyez On Me over at friend's houses before, which made me wanna buy the newer album in the first place.
With Kuruption however I never really understood why ppl disliked it so much. Maybe it's because I enjoy my 90's East Coast just as much as I do the West Coast classics, but I also loved the whole concept and artwork. And even though the West Coast disc went way harder then the EC one, I still enjoyed the whole project overall. Of course Tha Streetz... is a far better album, but Kuruption is not bad at all. Definitely better than Doggfather imo.I just can't with Snoop's whisper flow on that album :kanyeshrug:
good, another vote for Kuruption, I was hoping it would be more even, I'm still the only one who voted a tie.
And yeah, I agree with you about the artwork and theme, like I said before, I think Kurupt was really rockin with some good ideas still at the rhyme (time) those days, it was just a bit sloppy. Like the commercials on BET kept the same theme but if you remember them they were like overdone and sloppy.
...as for East and West disc being equal... it's your subjective opinion and it sounds like with your age there was some kind of sentimentality there, but wow, really... you put East and West disc out there as equals....smh.....ya buddy....I can go with you on "Tha Life" and that's it, when it comes to the East disc. Maybe the Nore remix, but that's about it, and I think the Nore mix just got haphazardly added but not in the official liner notes. I can do without all the tracks on the East Disc save for "The Life"
West Coast Disc = 7.5
East Coast Disc = 1.5
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i like certain elements of this one better but the chorus gets a lil too crowded
the album version was more produced
i do like some of the sounds they took out for the final version tho
I feel what you are saying...I just wish even the album version should have been released as the lead single rather than the 3rd...by that time the album had lost steam and "Doggfather" didn't really make much noise
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good, another vote for Kuruption, I was hoping it would be more even, I'm still the only one who voted a tie.
And yeah, I agree with you about the artwork and theme, like I said before, I think Kurupt was really rockin with some good ideas still at the rhyme (time) those days, it was just a bit sloppy. Like the commercials on BET kept the same theme but if you remember them they were like overdone and sloppy.
...as for East and West disc being equal... it's your subjective opinion and it sounds like with your age there was some kind of sentimentality there, but wow, really... you put East and West disc out there as equals....smh.....ya buddy....I can go with you on "Tha Life" and that's it, when it comes to the East disc. Maybe the Nore remix, but that's about it, and I think the Nore mix just got haphazardly added but not in the official liner notes. I can do without all the tracks on the East Disc save for "The Life"
West Coast Disc = 7.5
East Coast Disc = 1.5
yeah man Im pretty much in agreement tho Id rate them a little higher
I would probably give the West Coast disc a solid 8 and maybe a 3 on the East Coast Disc
the East Coast tracks I like
The Life - dope back and forth with Kurupt and El-Drex about their Philly days
Game - I really like the beat, reminds me of something AZ or Nas could spit over
We Can Freak it Out - just the fact that Nore is on it with Kurupt after the beef years earlier is dope as hell
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yeah man Im pretty much in agreement tho Id rate them a little higher
I would probably give the West Coast disc a solid 8 and maybe a 3 on the East Coast Disc
the East Coast tracks I like
The Life - dope back and forth with Kurupt and El-Drex about their Philly days
Game - I really like the beat, reminds me of something AZ or Nas could spit over
We Can Freak it Out - just the fact that Nore is on it with Kurupt after the beef years earlier is dope as hell
“The Life” - ya man such a beautiful song, the way Drex-El and him go back and forth reminiscing, maybe Kurupts best ever storytelling type of song. It reminds me of another track that came out about the same time was on BadAzz album called “The Last Time”. Remember rap albums in those days started putting like one of these sort of sentimental tracks on, like in 2001 Slim Calhoun had a similar track called “Worldly Ways” those have a lot of replay value.
“Game” - yeah dope beat and chorus, but Kurupt was sloppy on it
“We Can Freak It” - this was damn near a certified banger. Only complaint really is it wasn’t on the liner notes, it was added last minute, and also even the lyrics seem rushed, like they just got together and freestyled it. But yeah, I used to bump this one for sure.
“Who U Be” - I forgot to mention this one, it had a nice beat and chorus just a lil sloppy with the lyrics but I used to bump it
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Another thing wrong with the album was the opening track was so sloppy. If you’re gonna do that long as intro then at least make it a seperate track, I used to always have to fast forward to “This One’s 4 U” and then his lyrics needed to tighten up on the track as well, but good beat and chorus, concept okay as well
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Another thing wrong with the album was the opening track was so sloppy. If you’re gonna do that long as intro then at least make it a seperate track, I used to always have to fast forward to “This One’s 4 U” and then his lyrics needed to tighten up on the track as well, but good beat and chorus, concept okay as well
“The Life” - ya man such a beautiful song, the way Drex-El and him go back and forth reminiscing, maybe Kurupts best ever storytelling type of song. It reminds me of another track that came out about the same time was on BadAzz album called “The Last Time”. Remember rap albums in those days started putting like one of these sort of sentimental tracks on, like in 2001 Slim Calhoun had a similar track called “Worldly Ways” those have a lot of replay value.
“Game” - yeah dope beat and chorus, but Kurupt was sloppy on it
“We Can Freak It” - this was damn near a certified banger. Only complaint really is it wasn’t on the liner notes, it was added last minute, and also even the lyrics seem rushed, like they just got together and freestyled it. But yeah, I used to bump this one for sure.
“Who U Be” - I forgot to mention this one, it had a nice beat and chorus just a lil sloppy with the lyrics but I used to bump it
yeah alot of his verses are sloppy because this is around the time Kurupt got lazy and started freestyling on songs...I can count maybe on one hand the tracks which he actually sat down and wrote...one of the written ones is "Thats Gangsta" where he got introspective...tracks like "Its A Set Up" which had a great beat but he was just rambling through the track
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yeah alot of his verses are sloppy because this is around the time Kurupt got lazy and started freestyling on songs...I can count maybe on one hand the tracks which he actually sat down and wrote...one of the written ones is "Thats Gangsta" where he got introspective...tracks like "Its A Set Up" which had a great beat but he was just rambling through the track
I don't hear it on "That's Gangsta", what makes you think he took time to write that one?
It could have been the style he was going for, like he was going for like a more loose style, like sort of more about image than being a perfectionist, but definitely he forgot his mentor Rakim, because at Death Row you could hear a lot of the Rakim influence, like he was perfectionist.
Perfectionist Rakim Style Death Row Version of Kurupt
3. "Put That on Something"
12. "Ask Yourself a Question" (featuring Dr. Dre)
6. "Tha Life"
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I don't hear it on "That's Gangsta", what makes you think he took time to write that one?
It could have been the style he was going for, like he was going for like a more loose style, like sort of more about image than being a perfectionist, but definitely he forgot his mentor Rakim, because at Death Row you could hear a lot of the Rakim influence, like he was perfectionist.
Perfectionist Rakim Style Death Row Version of Kurupt
3. "Put That on Something"
12. "Ask Yourself a Question" (featuring Dr. Dre)
6. "Tha Life"
Well for example this part I think was written
“Life ain't complete without the heat to blast
You couldn't do a nigga without the extra clips to mash
You ain't blastin'?
Then you only learned a fraction
You only learned somethin'
The rest is closed-captioned
How could I make it over there where the light shine?
Home
Where a nigga's not alone
Cause everywhere where I seen or turn
It seems a nigga got a lot to learn
I pose like a poster
Pull the heat out the hollster
Blast, get ghost
and shake the whole coast”
also his flow appears to be on point throughout the whole song…a lot of the tracks that’s not really the case…I remember someone saying on the Bomb1st forum that he was drunk half the time during recording of the album, hence the freestyles
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Well for example this part I think was written
“Life ain't complete without the heat to blast
You couldn't do a nigga without the extra clips to mash
You ain't blastin'?
Then you only learned a fraction
You only learned somethin'
The rest is closed-captioned
How could I make it over there where the light shine?
Home
Where a nigga's not alone
Cause everywhere where I seen or turn
It seems a nigga got a lot to learn
I pose like a poster
Pull the heat out the hollster
Blast, get ghost
and shake the whole coast”
also his flow appears to be on point throughout the whole song…a lot of the tracks that’s not really the case…I remember someone saying on the Bomb1st forum that he was drunk half the time during recording of the album, hence the freestyles
I still don't really hear it.. for comparison let me just pull up a random Dogg Food verse
[Verse 3: Kurupt]
D.P.G. eliminates the whole area
Beyond the thought dismemberin', muthafuck surrenderin'!
Who? What? When? Let's tear shit the fuck up!
The homies coolin' while you and ya chest get fuckin' blew in
Provoke us, survey wit' the superior focus
I'm Dat Nigga like Daz, crooked as scoliosis
It's impossible to survive on my arrival
When I arrive, it's left to ya instinct of survival
Mashin', cashin' in chips, I gotta lick
Sadistic, sick minded I find it, I'm mentally sick
And badder, it doesn't matter when ya enterin'
Ya just entered in a war zone all alone
Wit' ya microphone unguarded
I just started — poetical poltergeist precise and cold-hearted
Empty! Tempt me? Simply ya get shot
Ya forgot I'm down to empty out my clip on ya block
Stop! Make the whole place evacuate
Wait until we face-to-face, then it escalates
Duck down! Kurupt clowns niggas daily, hoes can't play me
Observe — I serve those that betray me!
...if Kurupt would've done a side by side like this of his lyrics from Dogg Food vs. his lyrics from Kuruption! he would've realized he was fuccin up his first big solo oppurtunity.
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I still don't really hear it.. for comparison let me just pull up a random Dogg Food verse
[Verse 3: Kurupt]
D.P.G. eliminates the whole area
Beyond the thought dismemberin', muthafuck surrenderin'!
Who? What? When? Let's tear shit the fuck up!
The homies coolin' while you and ya chest get fuckin' blew in
Provoke us, survey wit' the superior focus
I'm Dat Nigga like Daz, crooked as scoliosis
It's impossible to survive on my arrival
When I arrive, it's left to ya instinct of survival
Mashin', cashin' in chips, I gotta lick
Sadistic, sick minded I find it, I'm mentally sick
And badder, it doesn't matter when ya enterin'
Ya just entered in a war zone all alone
Wit' ya microphone unguarded
I just started — poetical poltergeist precise and cold-hearted
Empty! Tempt me? Simply ya get shot
Ya forgot I'm down to empty out my clip on ya block
Stop! Make the whole place evacuate
Wait until we face-to-face, then it escalates
Duck down! Kurupt clowns niggas daily, hoes can't play me
Observe — I serve those that betray me!
...if Kurupt would've done a side by side like this of his lyrics from Dogg Food vs. his lyrics from Kuruption! he would've realized he was fuccin up his first big solo oppurtunity.
Yeah Kurupt was on another level on “A Doggz Day Afternoon”…really all of Dogg Food…I really think the alcohol started to take its toll by 97-98..even if you look at Streetz and Space Boogie which are both better albums his lyrics are never the highlight…the 3 best verses on Streetz are by Roscoe, Crooked I and Xzibit
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kurupt came back lyrically on tha streetz iz a mutha
still wasn't peak kurupt, but he was spitting
space boogie was back to the freestyle type raps, outside of on onsite, which he killed
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kurupt came back lyrically on tha streetz iz a mutha
still wasn't peak kurupt, but he was spitting
space boogie was back to the freestyle type raps, outside of on onsite, which he killed
He also has the ability to make dope music without really being super lyrical
If I had a choice I’d rather of course listen to Death Row Kurupt but I think the West Coast disc of Kuruption is on par with Streetz and Space Boogie
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He also has the ability to make dope music without really being super lyrical
If I had a choice I’d rather of course listen to Death Row Kurupt but I think the West Coast disc of Kuruption is on par with Streetz and Space Boogie
that's true, he can still ride a beat with a simple style on top tier production and that shit bangs
that's why space boogie is a near classic
1.streetz is a mutha
2.space boogie
3.kuruption
4.against the grain (OG release)
5.same day diff shit
6.against the grain (death row release)
7.streetlights
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that's true, he can still ride a beat with a simple style on top tier production and that shit bangs
that's why space boogie is a near classic
1.streetz is a mutha
2.space boogie
3.kuruption
4.against the grain (OG release)
5.same day diff shit
6.against the grain (death row release)
7.streetlights
exactly.. it's like a different style, where he rides the beat, and he did it on "We Can Freak It" which is a classic song to this day, and people loved it then and now. So he could still make dope music when he wasn't doing his Rakim style.
So that's why I break it down like Rakim style Kurupt, and then ridin' the beat sort of freestyle version of Kurupt. But when he's not focusing on the lyrics, he's relying very heavily on his homies and all that great production and industry connections that he has.
Like Fred Wreck made the Space Boogie album the successful album it was. That album damn near should've had Fred Wreck on the cover of it alongside Kurupt.
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exactly.. it's like a different style, where he rides the beat, and he did it on "We Can Freak It" which is a classic song to this day, and people loved it then and now. So he could still make dope music when he wasn't doing his Rakim style.
So that's why I break it down like Rakim style Kurupt, and then ridin' the beat sort of freestyle version of Kurupt. But when he's not focusing on the lyrics, he's relying very heavily on his homies and all that great production and industry connections that he has.
Like Fred Wreck made the Space Boogie album the successful album it was. That album damn near should've had Fred Wreck on the cover of it alongside Kurupt.
Fred did a great job copying Dre's 2001 sound ;D
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Fred did a great job copying Dre's 2001 sound ;D
Really? I thought the sound was pretty fresh on Space Boogie, I didn’t feel like it was a Dre sound—but god damn did that mutherfucker bang!! That was like one of those moments where you still remember where you were when you first heard a song or album it was my first day testing my speakers in my 99’ Camri that I got used in 2001.
It was funny because my previous Ford Tempo had Polk 6,9” (or 5’9”) front and back and some bad ass amp I think it was Clarion or Kenwood but it was banging and so they moved the equipment to my Camri and there was some shit they forgot to hook up and I didn’t even notice because the album banged so hard—it wasn’t until I put in another disc that I discovered their error.
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Really? I thought the sound was pretty fresh on Space Boogie, I didn’t feel like it was a Dre sound—but god damn did that mutherfucker bang!! That was like one of those moments where you still remember where you were when you first heard a song or album it was my first day testing my speakers in my 99’ Camri that I got used in 2001.
It was funny because my previous Ford Tempo had Polk 6,9” (or 5’9”) front and back and some bad ass amp I think it was Clarion or Kenwood but it was banging and so they moved the equipment to my Camri and there was some shit they forgot to hook up and I didn’t even notice because the album banged so hard—it wasn’t until I put in another disc that I discovered their error.
it was definitely a dre imitation sound lol
this shit is still one of the closest dre imitations i've ever heard
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FlMrjs6oEp4
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Really? I thought the sound was pretty fresh on Space Boogie, I didn’t feel like it was a Dre sound—but god damn did that mutherfucker bang!! That was like one of those moments where you still remember where you were when you first heard a song or album it was my first day testing my speakers in my 99’ Camri that I got used in 2001.
It was funny because my previous Ford Tempo had Polk 6,9” (or 5’9”) front and back and some bad ass amp I think it was Clarion or Kenwood but it was banging and so they moved the equipment to my Camri and there was some shit they forgot to hook up and I didn’t even notice because the album banged so hard—it wasn’t until I put in another disc that I discovered their error.
i heard you like your treble turned up and bass turned down
:ray:
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i heard you like your treble turned up and bass turned down
:ray:
Yeah I was a huge fan of that,
now I’m too broke in America to busy myself with such matters but when I was still a teenager and my legal dad was a computer programmer I was able to consider such things like what speakers to get and whether I wanted subwoofers 🔊 for bass or just a an amp to power up my 6 by 9’s and tweeters or whatever the fucc I don’t know..
I remember I had a little money in the Coward-19 couple of years I was back in America and tried to go fix up my speakers again but America had turned to shit and it was like two weeks just to get an appt and then they fucced it up anyway when and it barely sounded better than factory level speakers
But back in the late 90’s you had like circuit city, Best Buy, and a dozen other mom and pop shops with those guys just sitting around doing nothing just waiting to have someone to talk to about all the options for their car and hook them up, almost like a hobby…
… now you walk in those places and nobody wants to do shit, and most are closed anyway
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Yeah I was a huge fan of that,
now I’m too broke in America to busy myself with such matters but when I was still a teenager and my legal dad was a computer programmer I was able to consider such things like what speakers to get and whether I wanted subwoofers 🔊 for bass or just a an amp to power up my 6 by 9’s and tweeters or whatever the fucc I don’t know..
I remember I had a little money in the Coward-19 couple of years I was back in America and tried to go fix up my speakers again but America had turned to shit and it was like two weeks just to get an appt and then they fucced it up anyway when and it barely sounded better than factory level speakers
But back in the late 90’s you had like circuit city, Best Buy, and a dozen other mom and pop shops with those guys just sitting around doing nothing just waiting to have someone to talk to about all the options for their car and hook them up, almost like a hobby…
… now you walk in those places and nobody wants to do shit, and most are closed anyway
damn .. what do you have against bass?
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damn .. what do you have against bass?
The bass drowns out the lyrics and the other sounds, like people complained about Soul on Ice and Canibus first album, or Nas Lost Tapes—about the beats but they were fine for me—something really simple and you can focus on the lyrics.
I also like those highs and mids and high pitch sounds, it’s almost as if the bass is like a low sound that makes your mood feel low and the highs are like spring time giving rise like the birds chirping 🐦 in the morning
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The bass drowns out the lyrics and the other sounds, like people complained about Soul on Ice and Canibus first album, or Nas Lost Tapes—about the beats but they were fine for me—something really simple and you can focus on the lyrics.
I also like those highs and mids and high pitch sounds, it’s almost as if the bass is like a low sound that makes your mood feel low and the highs are like spring time giving rise like the birds chirping 🐦 in the morning
its like headphone or backpacker rap or boom bap...like Cubes 1st album with the Bomb Squad production
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The bass drowns out the lyrics and the other sounds, like people complained about Soul on Ice and Canibus first album, or Nas Lost Tapes—about the beats but they were fine for me—something really simple and you can focus on the lyrics.
I also like those highs and mids and high pitch sounds, it’s almost as if the bass is like a low sound that makes your mood feel low and the highs are like spring time giving rise like the birds chirping 🐦 in the morning
so you're a cerebral listener .. you don't let the vibrations of the music hit your soul? especially with west coast rap, you want to feel that shit in your spine when it's bangin
siavash was theorizing that it's a white thing
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so you're a cerebral listener .. you don't let the vibrations of the music hit your soul? especially with west coast rap, you want to feel that shit in your spine when it's bangin
siavash was theorizing that it's a white thing
actually Siavash might be onto something