West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Real American on September 08, 2003, 05:55:05 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96739,00.html
Driver's Licenses for Illegals Spark Security Concerns
Monday , September 08, 2003
LOS ANGELES — Though several immigration issues simmer in California, Democratic Gov. Gray Davis' (search) signature Friday on a bill allowing illegal aliens to obtain a legal California driver's license has sparked considerable controversy.
Aside from the political debate, and the oxymoron it creates — that it is now legal to be illegal — police have major security concerns.
One such concern is the sale of fraudulent identification forms. Under the new law, illegals must present two forms of identification to the state's Department of Motor Vehicles.
Places like Los Angeles' MacArthur Park (search) have become a marketplace for fake IDs, including foreign birth certificates and the matricula consular (search) card, the card issued by the Mexican consulate. Spurred on by the Mexican government, dozens of American cities now accept the matricula consular cards as legitimate identification.
Fox News sent a buyer out who easily purchased a card for $90. Come January, experts say, it will be no problem to use the card to get a legitimate California license.
Advocates of the new law downplay the potential for fraud and say the bill makes roads safer by requiring illegals to take a driving test. Critics say the roads may be safer, but the county is not.
"In California, you can now obtain a gun, explosives, jobs in secure areas — even at a nuclear power plant" — with a driver's license, an undercover officer who is a document fraud expert told Fox News.
Some lawmakers say even if Mexicans aren't a terror threat to the United States, foreigners from hostile countries could try to pass themselves off as Mexican to get the documents they need to legally enter U.S. society. Rep. Elton Gallegly, R-Calif., said he doesn't understand why U.S cities are even accepting matricula consular cards as eligible ID.
"What about Syria? What about Iran? Where do we draw the line?" Gallegly asked. "Are we going to say it's OK this country does it? The bottom line is, the only people that need this are people that have no legal right to be here to begin with."
In the past, matricula consular cards were only given to legal residents in the United States. Mexico changed that last year, giving them to any Mexican national — legal or not — who requested one. Mexican officials say the question of whether the U.S. should accept them is a debate for the U.S. politicians, not the Mexican government.
"That is not my problem, it is the problem of the United States. Our problem is to protect the Mexicans. The obligation, the task of all the consulates, 47 consulates around the country, is to protect the Mexicans who live here," said Agustin Pradillo, a diplomat at the Mexican consulate in Los Angeles.
The U.S. Congress may step in and work on legislation that says the only acceptable foreign identification is a passport. Because of security concerns, some states may also decide not to accept California driver's licenses as ID, saying the new law there sends the message that immigration rules are meaningless.
Fox News' William La Jeunesse contributed to this report.
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I'm happy for these poor people. They deserve it. 8)
*Observes CWalker and Trauma getting infuriated with this*
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I think it's silly that he rejected this twice before.
When his job comes into jeporady, look what happens. Pandering for votes IMO
It's the security concerns that worry me the most about this law...
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I would like to know what was the fucken difference for a terrorist to harm the United States with or without this law....if these guys can make bombs ...im pretty sure they had connections int makig fake Drivers Licenses. This is really helping everybody...even citizens. And please stop with the breaking the law shit...40% of caucasians in the U.S come from undocumented people.
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"In California, you can now obtain a gun, explosives, jobs in secure areas — even at a nuclear power plant" — with a driver's license
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"In California, you can now obtain a gun, explosives, jobs in secure areas — even at a nuclear power plant" — with a driver's license
Undocumented people still wont be able to get a job cuz of Social Security. Not only that but if they can...anybody cant just get a job in a nuclear power plant. ANd what about Michigan? You can just get a gun there in a gun show. or is it in all of America? Yea America is already nuts for guns because of fear.
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So I guess that undercover police officer who is a document fraud expert just dosen't know what he's talking about...
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So I guess that undercover police officer who is a document fraud expert just dosen't know what he's talking about...
please counter my points. And by the way...that article is from FOX...and FOX and News are :-\
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Counter your points?
There's a quote from a police officer backing up my points. I guess you know more about fraud and the law than he does?
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Counter your points?
There's a quote from a police officer backing up my points. I guess you know more about fraud and the law than he does?
ok...u really feel you are in danger? with this law. I think the odds are pretty much the same. Again if you can easily purchase a gun in a michiganauto show with no problem...why arent people focusing in that ?
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im still waiting for the counterpoints...cuz i gues that guy is not familiar with the whole social security situation
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Counter your points?
There's a quote from a police officer backing up my points. I guess you know more about fraud and the law than he does?
ok...u really feel you are in danger? with this law. I think the odds are pretty much the same. Again if you can easily purchase a gun in a michiganauto show with no problem...why arent people focusing in that ?
Sigh...
I haven't given any counter points becuase you haven't provded me with any points backed up by facts.
I don't really care what your points are if they can't be backed up by facts.
I have a police officer backing up my points. What do you have? Your thoughts.
We aren't talking about michagan because the title of this topic is "California Is Going To Give Illegal Immigrants Drivers Licenses"
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Counter your points?
There's a quote from a police officer backing up my points. I guess you know more about fraud and the law than he does?
ok...u really feel you are in danger? with this law. I think the odds are pretty much the same. Again if you can easily purchase a gun in a michiganauto show with no problem...why arent people focusing in that ?
Sigh...
I haven't given any counter points becuase you haven't provded me with any points backed up by facts.
I don't really care what your points are if they can't be backed up by facts.
I have a police officer backing up my points. What do you have? Your thoughts.
We aren't talking about michagan because the title of this topic is "California Is Going To Give Illegal Immigrants Drivers Licenses"
let me rephrase...can you get a FUCKEN JOB with no social security card?
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One such concern is the sale of fraudulent identification forms. Under the new law, illegals must present two forms of identification to the state's Department of Motor Vehicles.
Places like Los Angeles' MacArthur Park (search) have become a marketplace for fake IDs, including foreign birth certificates and the matricula consular (search) card, the card issued by the Mexican consulate. Spurred on by the Mexican government, dozens of American cities now accept the matricula consular cards as legitimate identification.
Fox News sent a buyer out who easily purchased a card for $90. Come January, experts say, it will be no problem to use the card to get a legitimate California license.
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To Apply for a Social Security Number--
Download the form to apply for a Social Security card; or
Visit any Social Security office to apply for a number; and
Provide original documents showing your age, identity and lawful alien status (including your permission to work in the U.S.).
i doubt a nuclear powerplant will accept any body who wants to apply there with no background check and no social security number.
and I thought the topic was SECURITY. thatswhy I brought up michigan.
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i doubt a nuclear powerplant will accept any body who wants to apply there with no background check and no social security number.
Here we go again with "I think that" and "I doubt"
Perhpas you didn't understand the Quote that I just posted. I'll explain it to you. If you can get a fake ID and other Fake cards so easily, whats going to stop somebody from getting a fake Social Security card?
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i doubt a nuclear powerplant will accept any body who wants to apply there with no background check and no social security number.
Here we go again with "I think that" and "I doubt"
Perhpas you didn't understand the Quote that I just posted. I'll explain it to you. If you can get a fake ID and other Fake cards so easily, whats going to stop somebody from getting a fake Social Security card?
A Social Security card has numbers. those numbers are looked up by every where u want to get a job...and there is a background check. So no undocumented person will work in a nuclear power plant. andsince ur saying anybody can get a fake ID...why are you complaining about undocumented people gettng Driver licenses?
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This is a perfect example of why govt. shouldn't be liberal. Look at the unbelievable shit they do. These people are breaking the law, isn't that priority #1? If I was an immigrant living in Cali, I'd be fucking PISSED that I busted my ass to get here, and became a citizen, etc. and then these assholes just get the priviledges by running across the border. Fuck that, it's lazy.
There are no pros to this. The only people that will even fucking GET the liscense are terrorists looking for an I.D. so they can bomb our shit without being pestered by cops when they don't have an I.D.
Do you honestly think a fucking illegal immigrant is going to walk in the D.M.V. and get a liscense? Shit, they can't speak english! If they did, why don't they just go become a citizen? They're not going to tell a fucking state-run organization where they live and shit, and tell them they're an illegal immigrant. They're going to just keep doing what they're already doing, the LAST place I'd be caught dead if I was running from INS would be in some damn government building.
The only people this benefits (because they're the only ones who will use it!) are terrorists.
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i doubt a nuclear powerplant will accept any body who wants to apply there with no background check and no social security number.
Here we go again with "I think that" and "I doubt"
Perhpas you didn't understand the Quote that I just posted. I'll explain it to you. If you can get a fake ID and other Fake cards so easily, whats going to stop somebody from getting a fake Social Security card?
A Social Security card has numbers. those numbers are looked up by every where u want to get a job...and there is a background check. So no undocumented person will work in a nuclear power plant. andsince ur saying anybody can get a fake ID...why are you complaining about undocumented people gettng Driver licenses?
They don't look up your social security number, dumbass. All they do is get it so they know who to pay taxes for to the government. What, you think there's some big "Call me with a social security number and I'll tell you everything about the guy!!!!" hotline somewhere? Hell no, they just get your social security number, so they can print it on your tax forms. I know, because I've used fake ones before. I've also been a manager in charge of hiring people, and we didn't check shit. Nuclear power plant (hopefully!) might be a different story, though.
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Gyeaa...I agree wit Trauma for a change...especially his 1st paragraph...
It's bullshit...
I agree wit U too Javier, there isn't a BIG threat...BUT it will make it just that much easier for terrorists 2 their thing AND makes tha legal immigrants look stupid...all dat work & stress they went thru for nothing...
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This is a perfect example of why govt. shouldn't be liberal. Look at the unbelievable shit they do. These people are breaking the law, isn't that priority #1? If I was an immigrant living in Cali, I'd be fucking PISSED that I busted my ass to get here, and became a citizen, etc. and then these assholes just get the priviledges by running across the border. Fuck that, it's lazy.
There are no pros to this. The only people that will even fucking GET the liscense are terrorists looking for an I.D. so they can bomb our shit without being pestered by cops when they don't have an I.D.
Do you honestly think a fucking illegal immigrant is going to walk in the D.M.V. and get a liscense?
My friend is an illegal immigrant who just turned 18. He didnt break the law...he moved to California when he was less than a year old. He speaks english. And the test for thedrivers licenses are in several different languages. How was my friend going to get to work? This will give him better options to move around.
my dad was an illegal immigrant...he came here he got his papers, he learned english while working in the Los Angeles Flower Market. He worked very hard for 18 years and then he got his papers and then his lady boss moved herbusiness but told the people in theLos Angeles Flwer Market that my dad was smart and that he can easily run a good business in the market so he got the lucky break and now he has a business. He never got the chance of driving because he coudlnt since he was an illegal immigrant so he alwys had to ride the bus...and still does. He doesnt have time to go learn how to drive, take the test...snc he is always busy with his business. Hes very happy about this law because he thinks of people that are in his situation 20 years ago. And now people will get their licenses
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Javier, why doesn't your friend just go get his citizenship? He's welcome here, what is he hiding from? If he moved here when he was 1, why doesn't he just go get his papers? There's no excuse for that. It's simple.
Here, here's a link for the forms he needs to be a U.S. citizen.
http://www.bcis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/index.htm
If he doesn't want to fill out the forms, report his ass and lets get him deported the fuck out of here. Here's the Cali deportation office:
Service Processing Center
1115 North Imperial Avenue
El Centro, CA 92243
(760) 353-2170
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If I was an immigrant living in Cali, I'd be fucking PISSED that I busted my ass to get here, and became a citizen, etc. and then these assholes just get the priviledges by running across the border. Fuck that, it's lazy.
If you were an immigrant? Busted your ass to get here? You think these people just calmly walk across the border, waive to the border patrol, sip some coronas with them, and stroll over here? They bust their ass. I know because I knew a guy who got deported twice and he had to pay thousands of dollars to get here. Assholes? Why are they assholes? Fuckin racist. They are just poor people coming here to work and make a living for their families. Lazy? LOL. In fact, LMAO at you even making a statement where you place yourself in the shoes of an immigrant busting his ass to become a citizen. That has got to be the funniest/dumbest thing ever.
There are no pros to this. The only people that will even fucking GET the liscense are terrorists looking for an I.D. so they can bomb our shit without being pestered by cops when they don't have an I.D.
And you know for a fact that the only people that will get the license are terrorists? Stop talking out of your ass. I know Mexicans who are delighted about this new law. Why do you not want them to have the opportunity for a better living? Your ancestors had it easy, they just came and took what they could. Times have changed, but people still want to come to this country and earn a living. Give them a chance you racist.
Do you honestly think a fucking illegal immigrant is going to walk in the D.M.V. and get a liscense? Shit, they can't speak english! If they did, why don't they just go become a citizen?
I guess you have no idea how long it takes to become a citizen these days. We don't have an Ellis Island any longer where they greet you with a citizenship. It takes many years. Imagine waiting 10 years for a driver's license, a social security card, a work permit, etc. What the fuck are you supposed to do throughout that time? Take the bus to a job where you get paid below minimum wage, which is what most of these illegal immigrants are doing. They would love to be citizens, but it's not as easy as you think.
The only people this benefits (because they're the only ones who will use it!) are terrorists.
Don't use your Ms. Cleo notions and provide some facts. Oh no, you can't since you're just making assumptions. CUT THE BULLSHIT.
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Javier, why doesn't your friend just go get his citizenship? He's welcome here, what is he hiding from? If he moved here when he was 1, why doesn't he just go get his papers? There's no excuse for that. It's simple.
well it takes forever to get your papers. unless he marries a U.S citizen. My mom got her papers through my dad in 6 years. So its not simple.
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Javier, why doesn't your friend just go get his citizenship? He's welcome here, what is he hiding from? If he moved here when he was 1, why doesn't he just go get his papers? There's no excuse for that. It's simple.
well it takes forever to get your papers. unless he marries a U.S citizen. My mom got her papers through my dad in 6 years. So its not simple.
Don't try explaining it to him, he won't understand.
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so far
65% dont want it at all
30% approve
this was a poll taken
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Whats wrong with letting them get a driving licence? From reading all the above, maybe the simple answer is to give them all these benefits once they take the first steps to become a citizen. I know it takes ages, I have friends looking who applyed for an irish passport when we were 12 and it still hasnt come through. They should be treated as equals imo. I think most of it was said well by the guy who has arnie in his avatar
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Its not that easy to just get your citizenship and a lot of people came here when they were kids (obviously it wasnt their decision to come here) it is not as easy as simply filling out a form & it costs money. how they supposed to pay all that money if they can't work? At least now they can get their license for some kind of identification so people like my friend who somehow has a tax i.d. # that she gives to employers as a social security # and can work and now drive without worrying about getting pulled over.
OH Yeah and guns....not hard to get.. all you need to buy those on the streets is MONEY
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Thanks for clarifying my point. Maybe now Trauma will begin to understand that becoming a citizen isn't just a matter of filling out a form and sending it. There are requirements, such as having worked in the country and paid taxes. How can you work with no work permit? Oh yes, illegally. But then how do you pay taxes? You don't. Then no citizenship for these people I guess. So what do they do? Same thing they have been for years, just keep working illegally. Then people like you complain about this shit. With laws like this it will satisfy them as well as selfish people like yourself.