West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: SGV on December 09, 2003, 08:44:13 PM
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Sometimes I wonder if people actually care if an artist is original and creative. I know it's about preference, but it boggles the mind sometimes. An artist like The Game will get props right and left, even though he sounds like every artist out, where as someone like Sick Jacken, who has street smart rhymes packed with political awareness and makes his own beats, gets slept on. Any thoughts on why that is?
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Haven't heard of either of those cats but I'll have to check for Sick Jacken if he's on real shit like that.
I think it's basically boils down to what Spice 1 said in his interview. The radio and the media has brainwashed people into think what good music is. When I talk to people, it's like they've been fooled into thinking garbage like Nelly, Ja Rule, 50 Cent and bullshit rap like that is the real shit and won't even give someone real a chance and we have the industry to thank for that. Paris dropped an incredible album that no one will hear but the industry will throw all their money and payola behind shit like Chingy and other related garbage. I've been prenty disgruntled about the state of hip hop lately and I'm only getting more disollusioned as time goes by.
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I dont know whats creative anymore. Everyone is saying the same shit thats already been said before. People who are supposivley "keeping it real" and "not selling out" are selling crack and killing people. Its just the way the game is right now. I mean, people critisize artits no matter what happens. Yall want an artist to be creative? JayZ comes out with the Black Album that has NO FEATURES on the whole thing, and has creative songs like "99 Problems", "December 4th" ect. and people on here give it 3/5... ???
Some people just set the standards to high and dont enjoy good music for what its worth.
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You need to understand that people listen to music differently.
Some people like Raw underground shit and like the idea of supporting an artist that not many people know about.
Others listen to the top 40 and the flavor of the moment. They don't really care about the content of the music, just if it sounds good and you can dance/sing along to it.
You can't go around changing what people like. Thats like going up to somebody and telling them that their opinions are wrong and they shouldn't think that way. People are gonna like what they wanna like. You can't change that. There's really no use in being mad about it. As long as you enjoy what you're listening to, why worry about what others think? I'm all for spreading the word, but theres no reason to be bitter that people like something and you like something else.
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Some people just set the standards to high and dont enjoy good music for what its worth.
i agree fully. an sometimes being originally an too creative isnt a good thing. sometimes your can tell its forced. sometimes people dont want to have to listen to a rapper an hafta analyze what he said. some people just feel like listening to something that bomps there head. another thing most people arent that smart. they dont want to listen to a rapper thats goin make them think. they want something nice an simple an there is nothing wrong with that. i dont understand that with u sgv. how come every1 has to have the same veiw on rap as you or else there not a real hip hop head or there a dickrider
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To answer your question, I don't really care if an artist is original or creative.
Is Bad boys 2 an original or creative movie? No. But it does action well so I like it.
Is the new WSC CD an origianl or creative album? Not really, but I like it cause I enjoy cube's, mack 10's and WC's style and flow.
Is Everybody loves raymond original or creative? Nope, but it's a funny sitcom so I enjoy watching it.
I'm not saying I don't enjoy stuff that breaks the mold, but I'm saying it's ok to like both.
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I dont know whats creative anymore. Everyone is saying the same shit thats already been said before. People who are supposivley "keeping it real" and "not selling out" are selling crack and killing people. Its just the way the game is right now. I mean, people critisize artits no matter what happens. Yall want an artist to be creative? JayZ comes out with the Black Album that has NO FEATURES on the whole thing, and has creative songs like "99 Problems", "December 4th" ect. and people on here give it 3/5... ???
Some people just set the standards to high and dont enjoy good music for what its worth.
just because jay is here and there creative dosnt mean the whole album is creative or a classic 4/5 to me
but you are right thats the way of the game
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If I feel the artist is being real to themselves, and they are original in the sense that I know that they are putting out work reflective of them, then I'll get it. Hell I never got a Jay-Z CD EVER, until Black Album because I felt Jigga finally was himself, and wasn't putting out an album to sell, except his single. Whatever I hear, if it's good, I'll peep it. I personally don't like all the underground shit anymore, 'cause all I hear is complants about being underground and shit. Come up with a more interesting topic to some, others have, and really really do well in terms of music. But if you want to sell, then there goes your music.
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yall just dunno THE GAME that I kno.........sure he sound like shyne.....but he's just somethin different...time will tell......
p.s imagine u start rappin 2day and in 2005, u get in XXL & everybody sayin U gone bring tha west back........krayzie
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yes & no
if an artist is makin dope music i'll listen to it regardless
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I think it's basically boils down to what Spice 1 said in his interview. The radio and the media has brainwashed people into think what good music is. When I talk to people, it's like they've been fooled into thinking garbage like Nelly, Ja Rule, 50 Cent and bullshit rap like that is the real shit and won't even give someone real a chance and we have the industry to thank for that. Paris dropped an incredible album that no one will hear but the industry will throw all their money and payola behind shit like Chingy and other related garbage. I've been prenty disgruntled about the state of hip hop lately and I'm only getting more disollusioned as time goes by.
^^ What he said, but then again I agree what Engelwood said, people listen to music differently, so if it has a good beat thats enough for them & they will like it. I guess we have to accept it.
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an sometimes being originally an too creative isnt a good thing. sometimes your can tell its forced.
I agree with that. Cee Lo Green's album and Outkast's 2nd and 3rd albums all sounded forced, TO ME. They were just trying to be different for the sake of being different.
sometimes people dont want to have to listen to a rapper an hafta analyze what he said. some people just feel like listening
to something that bomps there head. another thing most people arent that smart. they dont want to listen to a rapper thats goin make them think. they want something nice an simple an there is nothing wrong with that.
I under stand that, but I'm not even talking about the vocab rappers. I'm talking about artists like Defari, Aceyalone, etc. they keep it simple, but have a message. Every thing they say is clear, IMO.
i dont understand that with u sgv. how come every1 has to have the same veiw on rap as you or else there not a real hip hop head or there a dickrider
It's like this. I like ALL Hip Hop. From New Jersey to Alaska to Alabama, I bump it all. Not just Underground, I keep up with the commercial aspect of Hip Hop, too. In my collection you can find P.Diddy, Nelly, G-Unit(though, I don't listen to it), Jay-Z, Busdriver, Psycho Realm, Street Platon, Latino Velvet, David Banner, Crooked Lettaz, Kingpin Skinny Pimp, Bootleg, Dayton Family, Lil Raw, Snoop, Dre and a whole bunch more. I'm diverse. I'm a huge E-40 fan, but I don't go around calling each one of his albums classics, because I know they're not, except for In A Major Way. I don't need to dickride him, matter fact, I don't dickride any artist. I feel people who dickride, that's people who give nothing but props to an artist at all costs, are blind to everything else but that artist or artists. They don't check new material, etc. Another example is people who only bump stuff from certain regions. If you're only bumping Southern Cal Hip Hop, you're not a true West Coast head. You may be a Southern Cali Hip Hop Head, but not a West Coast head. And vice versa.
But, the purpose of this was not to call anyone dickriders, it was simply to know. DO YOU CARE IF AN ARTIST IS ORIGINAL AND CREATIVE?
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To make something sell,you shouldn't really be that creative because 'keeping it simple and stupid' appeals to the masses.
I personally like creativity and something original or something that's not exactly like what i'm used too. ( I guess that's why I love tracks like 'Stoplight' or 'When you see me' and people like Outkast or Jelly Roll.)
I don't have to let my friends listen to such music because they'll look at me like ??? and say 'that shit's wrong' or 'they must've been really high when they recorded that.'
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i havent read any replies, just the first post. but, i would like to hear some original material and some creativity. but, what is there to talk about nowadays? i know the creativity aspect of rap will be taken care of with detox...as far as beats are concerned, i doubt the lyrics will be original. but i think rap/hip-hop needs to go into a coma for about a decade, just to keep it from becoming what we dont want it to become....shit (trust me...its almost there). the next generation of rappers and producers will come up with some originality and creativity and hopefully not lead it into the direction it is in now.
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Fuck yea I care, thats why I dont hardly buy any music anymore. Its all the same ol generic shit. Beats and rhymes are all so boring nowdays, even people who 'try' to be creative are usually just being off-the-wall just to do it. Creativity shouldn't be forced, there's a real lack of musical talent out right now.
Oh yea, Jacken is the shit.
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if an artist is makin dope music i'll listen to it regardless
thats what it comes down to
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But, the purpose of this was not to call anyone dickriders, it was simply to know. DO YOU CARE IF AN ARTIST IS ORIGINAL AND CREATIVE?
Well i'mma quote Ice on this, from the recent interview he did with Lil Jay..
WC2K: Do you think it matters who writes the lyrics if its dope?
Ice Cube: I do, because Im from the Oldschool. I think you should write your shit. If I write songs for you to rap, thats what singers do, you know? (laughs). Thats why you like Rap, cause its creative with the lyrics. Thats just part of it for me. Havin a good voice aint gonna get you far, and it goes so far.
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I love creativity, and I think creativity is the only thing that can make me say "damn". Because most of the new releases are based on already-heard-before aspects. Without a doubt this releases could be good too, but I would never be nearly shocked by that stuff, because it's what all the artist do, just other beats, and another rapper.
For me Premier's former beats for example were very creatively, and Dre's beats are often very creatively, that's why I'm lookin' forward to "Detox". But in my opinion creativity is now-a-days mostly expressed in lyrics, because it's the only thing where you can do something new today. That's why I'm into lyrics more than back in the days, and listen to great lyricists like Canibus, Eminem, Immortal Technique, etc.
But unfortunately Morgoth is right by sayin':
To make something sell,you shouldn't really be that creative because 'keeping it simple and stupid' appeals to the masses...
/edit/ ^^ Ice Cube just confirmed my theorie: Thats why you like Rap, cause its creative with the lyrics.
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^^ so y'all wouldn't listen to a dre album ? he might be creative with the beats but he raps other people's lyrics
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^^ so y'all wouldn't listen to a dre album ? he might be creative with the beats but he raps other people's lyrics
People don't listen to Dre for lyrics, at least I hope they don't. I know when I hear Dre talk all this shit, I laugh, it's not even his words. I'd much rather hear DJ Quik, since he writes his own rhymes. I'd much rather hear RZA because he writes his own rhymes. Tell me all you want about Dre's flow. Fuck a flow. If you're not writing your own lyrics, you're not a rapper.
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^^ so y'all wouldn't listen to a dre album ? he might be creative with the beats but he raps other people's lyrics
I have the cd single of Hail Mary. It has the instrumental version in it. I love that song, Pac did a crazy work writing it, with all the references to the Bible, to Jesus Christ, etc.. It's just dope as fuck. I love it. Ok, now if i rap over the original beat using the original lyrics......... would you call me a rapper? Would you call my track a "classic" track? Or would you call me a singer with a dope flow who interpretated in a good way the product, the creativity and the lyrics of another man?
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Artist: Dr. Dre f/ Snoop Dogg
Album: Chronic 2001
Song: Still D.R.E.
Note: Written By Jay-Z
[Snoop]
Yeah nigga, I'm still fuckin with ya
Still waters run deep
Still Snoop Dogg and D-R-E, '99 Nigga (Guess who's back)
Still, still doing that shit, Andre?
[Dr. Dre]
Oh for sho', check me out
It's still Dre Day nigga, A.K. nigga
Though I've grown a lot, can't keep it home a lot
Cause when I frequent the spots that I'm known to rock
You hear the bass from the truck when I'm on the block
Ladies, they pay homage, but haters say Dre fell off
How nigga? My last album was "The Chronic" (nigga)
They want to know if he still got it
They say rap's changed, they want to know how I feel about it
[Snoop - singing]
If you ain't up on thangs
[Dr. Dre]
Dr. Dre is the name, I'm ahead of my game
Still, puffing my leafs, still fuck with the beats
Still not loving police (Uh huh)
Still rock my khakis with a cuff and a crease (fo sho)
Still got love for the streets, repping 213 (fo life)
Still the beats bang, still doing my thang
Since I left, ain't too much changed, still
Chorus:
[Snoop Dogg]
I'm representing for them gangstas all across the world
(Still) Hitting them corners on the low-low's girl
[Dr. Dre]
Still taking my time to perfect the beat
And I still got love for the streets, it's the D-R-E (Repeat 2x)
Since the last time you heard from me I lost some friends
Well, hell, me and Snoop, we dipping again
Kept my ear to the streets, signed Eminem
He's triple platinum, doing 50 a week
Still, I stay close to the heat
And even when I was close to defeat, I rose to my feet
My life's like a soundtrack I wrote to the beat
Treat my rap like Cali weed, I smoke til I sleep
Wake up in the A.M., compose a beat
I bring the fire til you're soaking in your seat
It's not a fluke, it's been tried, I'm the truth
It's "Turn Out the Lights" from the World Class Wreckin' Cru
I'm still at it, After-mathematics
In the home of drivebys and ak-matics
Swap meets, sticky green, and bad traffic
I dip through then I get skin, D-R-E
Chorus
It ain't nothing but more hot shit
Another classic CD for y'all to vibe with
Whether you're cooling on a corner with your fly bitch
Laid back in the shack, play this track
I'm representing for the gangstas all across the world
Still (Hitting them corners on the low-low's girl)
I'll break your neck, damn near put your face in your lap
Niggas try to be the king but the ace is back
[Snoop - singing]
So if you ain't up on thangs
[Dr. Dre]
Dr. Dre be the name still running the game
Still, got it wrapped like a mummy
Still ain't tripping, love to see young blacks get money
Spend time out the hood, take they moms out the hood
Hit my boys off with jobs, no more living hard
Barbeques every day, driving fancy cars
Still gon' get mine regardless
Chorus 3X
[Snoop]
Right back up in ya motherfucking ass
'95 plus four pennies!
Add that shit up, D-R-E right back up on top of thangs
Smoke some with your dog
No stress, no seeds, no stems, no sticks!
Some of that real sticky icky icky
Oooh wee! Put it in the air
Oh you's a fool D.R.
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Not to mention the fact that Jay-Z wrote phrases who a lil too "deep" for Dr. Dre, like "when I'm on the block", "Still not loving police", "Still got love for the streets", "Repping 213", "me and Snoop, we dipping again", "Kept my ear to the streets, signed Eminem", "I'm representing for the gangstas all across the world", "I'll break your neck", "Spend time out the hood"... But that's another story, and this topic aint about it!
;)
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Do you care if an artist is on Aftermath or somehow affiliated wit them?
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Do you care if an artist is on Aftermath or somehow affiliated wit them?
Honestly? I dont give a single fuck about the label. I have Ice Cube in my avatar, and he'll probably finish to sign to Aftermath, so hell no i dont hate on them. Somebody asked me about Dre. I replied about Dre. That's all.
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Do you care if an artist is on Aftermath or somehow affiliated wit them?
I liked King Tee, Hittman, Rakim, all when they were signed to Aftermath, and before. Right now, the roster is garbage. I don't like Eminem or 50. Stat Quo is aight. The Game is boring.
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^^^^^ I like king T and Hittman, but how are they original and creative? its the same old gangsta shit.
Yeah I like originality and creativity, but it doesn't always make something better. I'm not even sure what is creative and original these days. Personally I thought Jay Z's Black album was the most original album I heard in awhile.
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^^^^^ I like king T and Hittman, but how are they original and creative? its the same old gangsta shit.
Yeah I like originality and creativity, but it doesn't always make something better. I'm not even sure what is creative and original these days. Personally I thought Jay Z's Black album was the most original album I heard in awhile.
King Tee been out since the 80s. He was a pioneer of the style. Hittmat isn't exactly original, but he is creative. Lyrically, he has good concepts.
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^^ so y'all wouldn't listen to a dre album ? he might be creative with the beats but he raps other people's lyrics
In my post I only said that I love creative lyrics, I didn't say that the person who spits this lyrics has to be the owner of them. But I don't like rappers who pay their ghostwriters and don't even take a pen in their hands though. I usually listen to Doc Dre because of his genius productions and his flow; the lyrics are not the most important aspect for me while listenin' to Dre. But if he spit's some hot lyrics in one of his songs, I'll listen to the song again and again! Although I know he didn't write it, they can be dope anyway. And as long as the real writer of the lyrics doesn't spit them on a track, I don't have another chance to listen to them, but by listen' to Dre. Know what I'm sayin'?
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^^ so y'all wouldn't listen to a dre album ? he might be creative with the beats but he raps other people's lyrics
In my post I only said that I love creative lyrics, I didn't say that the person who spits this lyrics has to be the owner of them. But I don't like rappers who pay their ghostwriters and don't even take a pen in their hands though. I usually listen to Doc Dre because of his genius productions and his flow; the lyrics are not the most important aspect for me while listenin' to Dre. But if he spit's some hot lyrics in one of his songs, I'll listen to the song again and again! Although I know he didn't write it, they can be dope anyway. And as long as the real writer of the lyrics doesn't spit them on a track, I don't have another chance to listen to them, but by listen' to Dre. Know what I'm sayin'?
yeah, I pretty much agree. But still knowin I gotta give Jay-Z the props for writin the song when I listen to "Still Dre" feels different from what it would be like if dre had written it. but yeah, ima still bump his albums again and again, basically cuz of his incredible producin skillz...
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You need to understand that people listen to music differently.
Some people like Raw underground shit and like the idea of supporting an artist that not many people know about.
Others listen to the top 40 and the flavor of the moment. They don't really care about the content of the music, just if it sounds good and you can dance/sing along to it.
You can't go around changing what people like. Thats like going up to somebody and telling them that their opinions are wrong and they shouldn't think that way. People are gonna like what they wanna like. You can't change that. There's really no use in being mad about it. As long as you enjoy what you're listening to, why worry about what others think? I'm all for spreading the word, but theres no reason to be bitter that people like something and you like something else.
word. i'd like to add to this though - little kids be listenin to shit cuz the 'cool kids' are, and it fucks them up. they get influenced way too much by their surroundings in high school and many times it is a direct cause of the music. i live in brooklyn, and kids gettin shot every fuckin day out here over some goddam petty shit. and i'd be willing to bet that a large part of that is what they learn that from what they hear in the music. and in that case, the music is wrong, and people should watch what they say and how they defend it...overall, i think that the quote above is great, unless you can't think for yourself, like these high school kids who are influenced (moreso than almost anyone in the world) by their surroundings.