West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: NobodyButMe on February 02, 2004, 01:25:58 PM
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i got nothin against biggie, or anything he's said or done. i think that he was actually a pretty dope lyricist and made some pretty tite songs - i got all his albums and listen to them pretty often....but what i can't understand is the constant biggie dickriding that we always seem to encounter. people ride biggie and always talkin 'he was the greatest of all time'. i can't stand hearin that shit. he released ONE FUCKIN ALBUM before he died. and one album after he died that we're not even sure that that was what he wanted to be released. then another GARBAGE album full of guest spots. tell me, how the fuck can people make such huge claims off of one goddam album? sure, it's a good album, but you can't say that someone that made ONE album, ONE good album before he died is the GOAT. that defies all logic.
that's like a professional basketball player that took and made ONE shot during his whole career and died almost instantaneoulsy after his shot as being considered the GOAT because his field goal percentage was perfect. that's just retarded.
i'm sick of people comparin pac to big cuz we don't have anything to compare. we got two different people from (believe it or not) two different time periods, with two totally different styles, two totally different catalogues of music, and two totally different amounts of recorded material.
a GOAT is a proven entity. he's not a one hit wonder. he's not a rookie that hasn't had his chance to shine. the GOAT is someone that has consistently proven himself many times over, in different time periods with different styles. the GOAT transcends all barriers. the GOAT does not release one dope album. the GOAT does not spit one hot verse (remember canibis?). the GOAT is the GOAT. and because biggie never really got the chance to prove himself, he cannot and will never be the GOAT in my opinion.
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Biggie came out of nowhere. He didn't ride any coattails. He stomped into the game at the height of Wu Tang's popularity. He took their shine with one album and went straight to the forefront of the East. His skills(amazing flow and breathe control for a huge guy, great story telling, and very versatile content) set him apart from most. Though I do not think he's the GOAT, he is and was better than Pac.
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Biggie came out of nowhere. He didn't ride any coattails. He stomped into the game at the height of Wu Tang's popularity. He took their shine with one album and went straight to the forefront of the East. His skills(amazing flow and breathe control for a huge guy, great story telling, and very versatile content) set him apart from most. Though I do not think he's the GOAT, he is and was better than Pac.
lyrically, yeah, big was better than pac. but that's a whole nother argument. i think that there's more to a lyricist/poet/rapper/musician than his delivery and flow. i happen to think it's deeper than the surface criteria that BIG was a master at. and that's why i consider pac the GOAT. even though big was lyrically better than pac, you can't say that he had more 'heart and soul' than PAC. he couldn't make you believe like pac could make you believe. but then again, maybe BIG made you believe like pac made me believe.
the point of my post was to get people to understand they can't be logical by claiming GOAT status for someone that released ONE album. yeah, BIG outshone WU-TANG, but pac outshone big. i remember people was laughin at big. Big got the east jumpin, pac got the west jumpin. pac made the whole east coast look like a bunch of chumps - mobb deep, jigga, nas, chino xl, fugees, ll cool j, big, puff, junior mafia - he made a lot of people lose a lot of respect for those cats cuz they never came back at him. i just remember a few years ago on the west coast, PAC was the shit. and he rightfully deserved it cuz he proved himself.
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LOL at Pac making the whole east coast look like chumps, all he did was say fuck them, he didn't break down the reasons he was dissing them. I hardly think just saying Fuck Mobb Deep, Fuck Chino Xl, etc means that he made them look like chumps.
And you say Big can't make you believe like Pac made you believe, then listen to Juicy, if you believe that is actually how Biggie lived when he was growing up then he has made you believe something which isn't even true, cause he actually had a comfortable upbringing and went to a private school.
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LOL at Pac making the whole east coast look like chumps, all he did was say fuck them, he didn't break down the reasons he was dissing them. I hardly think just saying Fuck Mobb Deep, Fuck Chino Xl, etc means that he made them look like chumps.
And you say Big can't make you believe like Pac made you believe, then listen to Juicy, if you believe that is actually how Biggie lived when he was growing up then he has made you believe something which isn't even true, cause he actually had a comfortable upbringing and went to a private school.
just a question - did you live on the westcoast at that time? cuz i remember going to house parties and everybody - even the chicks - was yellin bout "fuck the east coast."
and as for the 'believing' thing - that's not what i'm trying to say. i'm sayin that pac made you believe things about the world, and society, and real things. whereas biggie rapped about stories. don't get me wrong, stories are dope to spit, but spittin about real life problems and real life politics and real life racism and fascism and capitalism and love and memories and blah blah blah means so much more to me than hearing a story. listenin to pac was like listenin to someone that measured every word and sentence he said - everything he said he said with heart. he was spittin stories, he was spittin his heart out. big was spittin stories. not his heart. but that's just my opinion. i don't care where big grew up if he's sayin something that's political or meaningful in terms of my life.
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LOL at Pac making the whole east coast look like chumps, all he did was say fuck them, he didn't break down the reasons he was dissing them. I hardly think just saying Fuck Mobb Deep, Fuck Chino Xl, etc means that he made them look like chumps.
plus - in rap music, if someone disses you and you don't diss them back - then you're a chump. none of those dudes (except maybe mobb and chino) dissed pac back. that's weak. if someone came out and straight out dissed someone claimin to be a hardcore gangsta and dude didn't do nothin, you might question if he really is hardcore. that's why he made them look like chumps.
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Of course they were yelling fuck the east coast at a house party on the west coast. At the same time peeps having a house party on the east coast were probably yelling fuck the west coast.
They didn't respond cause most of them didn't have shit to respond to. Pac died before the Nas diss came out, before the Jigga diss came out, before the Fugees diss came out. How were they supposed to respond when they didn't even know he was dissing them?
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Biggie = GOAT. I don't really give a fuck if you don't agree, it's the truth. Take Biggie's best song, take Pac's best song, Biggie's is better. That's my opinion, but hey, we all got one. Biggie didn't even show us 1 30th of what he could have done, he was still learning when he died. Raw fucking talent.
On pac's side, he was also talented, but he had a chance to hone that talent. Even after working on his shit for years, he was on Biggie's level. Not above, on his level.
In 1 album, Biggie did what Pac worked years to grow to. Imagine if Biggie would have released as many albums as Pac, he would have been unstoppable.
"The saddest words of tongue or pen, are the words 'what could have been' "
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Biggie = Better Rapper
2pac = Better Artist
That's the truth! Biggie was a much better rapper than pac because his flow and raw prescence on the mic was fucken rediculous, but pac was deep and always made you feel every verse he came with and he has a huge discography and is always praised by the public which made him more of an icon. Either way they were 2 of the greatest rappers ever.
R.I.P. 2pac and Biggie
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Biggie's not better than Pac, lyrically or anything else, but he was sick as fuck. He definitely deserves the praise he gets. Just think if he hadn't passed. Same with 'Pac, Pun, L, etc. However, greatest of all-time? Nah. He only gets that title cuz he's passed.
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Biggie came out of nowhere. He didn't ride any coattails. He stomped into the game at the height of Wu Tang's popularity. He took their shine with one album and went straight to the forefront of the East. His skills(amazing flow and breathe control for a huge guy, great story telling, and very versatile content) set him apart from most. Though I do not think he's the GOAT, he is and was better than Pac.
PREEACH!!!
'Nuff Said,
Props
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Oh yea. Let me add this.
Big Pun is better than all of them. Lyrically and overall.
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Biggie = GOAT. I don't really give a fuck if you don't agree, it's the truth. Take Biggie's best song, take Pac's best song, Biggie's is better. That's my opinion, but hey, we all got one. Biggie didn't even show us 1 30th of what he could have done, he was still learning when he died. Raw fucking talent.
On pac's side, he was also talented, but he had a chance to hone that talent. Even after working on his shit for years, he was on Biggie's level. Not above, on his level.
In 1 album, Biggie did what Pac worked years to grow to. Imagine if Biggie would have released as many albums as Pac, he would have been unstoppable.
"The saddest words of tongue or pen, are the words 'what could have been' "
i agree but also the same could have been send about snoop circa 95....who knew he'd be a shitty artist today with all that potential? 2pac at least showed that he was a consistant hit maker, you can't say that about biggie or big pun because it's all just speculation
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Biggie = GOAT. I don't really give a fuck if you don't agree, it's the truth. Take Biggie's best song, take Pac's best song, Biggie's is better. That's my opinion, but hey, we all got one. Biggie didn't even show us 1 30th of what he could have done, he was still learning when he died. Raw fucking talent.
On pac's side, he was also talented, but he had a chance to hone that talent. Even after working on his shit for years, he was on Biggie's level. Not above, on his level.
In 1 album, Biggie did what Pac worked years to grow to. Imagine if Biggie would have released as many albums as Pac, he would have been unstoppable.
"The saddest words of tongue or pen, are the words 'what could have been' "
sums up my thoughts
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Biggie = GOAT. I don't really give a fuck if you don't agree, it's the truth. Take Biggie's best song, take Pac's best song, Biggie's is better. That's my opinion, but hey, we all got one. Biggie didn't even show us 1 30th of what he could have done, he was still learning when he died. Raw fucking talent.
On pac's side, he was also talented, but he had a chance to hone that talent. Even after working on his shit for years, he was on Biggie's level. Not above, on his level.
In 1 album, Biggie did what Pac worked years to grow to. Imagine if Biggie would have released as many albums as Pac, he would have been unstoppable.
"The saddest words of tongue or pen, are the words 'what could have been'
i agree, i like pac, but, biggie is just better, his flow, lyrics, style, his topics,
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biggie was great
who cares if the best or second best or whatever
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Oh yea. Let me add this.
Big Pun is better than all of them. Lyrically and overall.
Lyrically...yes, I agree.
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Biggie = GOAT. I don't really give a fuck if you don't agree, it's the truth. Take Biggie's best song, take Pac's best song, Biggie's is better. That's my opinion, but hey, we all got one. Biggie didn't even show us 1 30th of what he could have done, he was still learning when he died. Raw fucking talent.
On pac's side, he was also talented, but he had a chance to hone that talent. Even after working on his shit for years, he was on Biggie's level. Not above, on his level.
In 1 album, Biggie did what Pac worked years to grow to. Imagine if Biggie would have released as many albums as Pac, he would have been unstoppable.
"The saddest words of tongue or pen, are the words 'what could have been' "
i agree but also the same could have been send about snoop circa 95....who knew he'd be a shitty artist today with all that potential? 2pac at least showed that he was a consistant hit maker, you can't say that about biggie or big pun because it's all just speculation
i agree - snoop came out straight fire and then fell the fuck off for years. nowadays, people don't even consider him in the top 20.
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To explain 2Pac's depth in lyrics. You don't have to agree 'Pac was better than Big. I personally put Nas over Big, and Rakim, and 'Pac, but that's about it. 'Pac to me is number one, but one, I lived on the westcoast when he was alive, read all his articles when they were released, and I guess you can say I grew a huge biased. Though I think that from 2Pacalypes Now to All Eyez On Me, 2Pac was the most artist rapper, but on Makaveli, he became the most lyrical, in depth rapper I ever heard in my life. Oh, and I'll throw our each others best adiss to each other. Because both their worst came out when they were alive, but their best not 'till each one was dead. We'll see straight up who people thinks is better. It's purely judgement.
2Pac: Bomb First (My Second Reply)
Allow me to introduce first {*gunshot fires*} Makaveli the Don
Hysterical, spiritual lyrics like the holy Qu'Ran
Niggaz get shook like 5-0
My forty-five gun's next to me when we ride, for survival
Money makin plans, pistol close at hand, swollen pockets
Let me introduce the topic, then we drop it
Expose snakes cause they breath freely, see me ride?
Located world wide like the art of graffiti
I think I'm tougher than Nitti, my attitude is shitty
Born on a dopefiend's titty.. huh
In every city you'll find me
Look for trouble right behind me
My Outlaw niggaz down to die for me, knahmean?
I hit the scene niggaz duckin from my guillotine stare
I'm right there; my every word, a fuckin nightmare
Get me high, let me see the sun rise and fall
This for my dogs down to die for yours
Extreme venom, no mercy when we all up in 'em
Cut 'em down.. to Hell is where we send 'em
My whole team, trained to explode ride or die
Murder motherfuckers lyrically, and I'm not gon' cry
Me - a born leader never leave the block without my heater
Two big pits, I call them my bitch nigga eaters
And not a whimper 'til I'm gone
Thug Life runnin through my veins so I'm strong (Ha ha ha)
Bye bye bye, let's get high and ride
Oh, how do we do these niggaz but I'm not gon' cry
I'm a Bad Boy killa, Jay-Z die too
Lookin out for Mobb Deep, nigga when I find you
Weak motherfuckers don't deserve to breathe
How many niggaz down to die for me? Yeahh-yeayy!
West coast ridah, comin right behind ya
Should've never fucked wit meeee
I want money hoes sex and weeeed
I wont rest till my road dawgs freeee, bomb first!
Notorious B.I.G.: Long Kiss Goodnight
I make yo' mouthpiece obese like Della Reese
When I release, you loose teeth like Lil' Cease
Nigga please, blood floods yo' Dungarees
And that's just the half on my warpath
Laugh now cry later, I rhyme greater
than the average playa hater, and spectators
buy my CD twice; they see me in the streets
They be like, "Yo he nice, but that's on the low doe"
Be the cats with no dough, tried to play me at my show
I pull out fo'-fo's, and go up in they clothes
Short-change niggaz, snort-caine niggaz
Extortion came quicker, bought the Range nigga
Ya still tickle me, I used to be as strong as Ripple be
til Lil' Cease crippled me
Now I play hard, like my girls nipples be
The game sour like like a pickle be, y'all know da rules
Move from BK to New Jeruz -- thinkin bout
all the planes we flew, bitches, we ran through
Now the year's new, I lay my game flat
I want my spot back, take two
Motherfuckers mad cause I blew, niggaz envious
Too many niggaz on my dick, shit strenuous
When my men bust, you just move wit such stamina
Slugs missed ya, I ain't mad at cha (we ain't mad at cha)
Blood rushin, concussions, ain't nothin
Catch cases, come out frontin, smokin somethin
Sippin White Russians, bitch in the Benz bumpin
I laced it wit the basic, six TV's a system
Knockin Mase shit, face it, we hard to hit
Guard ya shit, 'fore I stick you, for your re-up
Wipe the pee up, mixed shots, woke your seed up
Go in the ashtray, spark the weed up, LONG KISS
Uhh.. I'm flamin gats, aimin at, these fuckin
maniacs, put my name in raps, what part the
game is that? Like they hustle backwards
I smoke Blackwoods and Dutchies, ya can't touch me
Try to rush me, slugs go, touchy-touchy
You're bleedin lovely, wit'chyo, spirit above me
or beneath me, your whole life you live sneaky
Now you rest eternally, sleepy, you burn when you creep me
Rest where the worms and the weak be
My nine flies, baptize, rap guys
With the Holy Ghost, I put holes in most
You hold your toast shaky, slippin tryin to break me
Look what you made me do, brains blew
My team in the marine-blue, six Coupe
Skied it out, weeded out, cleanin out -- the block
for distances, givin long kisses BITCH
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well my view is
biggie - good rapper killer lyrics at times a crazy flow like notorius thugs
2pac - the greatest all round rapper to date he had it all
rip to both