West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: pappy on June 13, 2004, 09:05:21 PM
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Kobe had two horrible games in a row on the biggest stage in basketball. granted jordan has had bad games. But i cant remember a time when jordan had 2 shitty games in a row on a stage like this. an please dont bring up jordans last days with the wizards either. OK im done *waits for nik to come into thread an call me a fuckin idiot*
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yeah we should end the comparisons, cause kobe is better.
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ok maybe some of you 12 year olds who never saw jordan in his pre wizards days might think that....jordan never had horrible games like that in the finals...jordan had great players defending him and still scorched them every time...when jordan scored 30 apposing teams where thrilled and it was considered an off night...and some fools think when kobe scores 30 that they can compare him...again kobe is VERY SIMILAR to PENNY HARDAWAY....just wait and see what happens when he leaves shaqs side...no more open shots and free lanes to drive to the hoop(because of shaq)...his game will drop of dramatically...i cant even believe some idiots even think this...kobe shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence as mj 8)
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Kobe had two awful games I second that. God he sucked lol.
He ruined the Lakers. If he wasnt that pathetic, he would have just passed the ball to the only great Laker on the field instead of taking and missing crazy shots.
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Jordan never had off games in the finals? Wow, you guys must only know Jordan by the highlights you see on ESPN...Jordan HAS had off games in the finals...And look at the fuckin situation Kobe is in man...People are surprised that he's even able to play with everything that's going on...But you guys will never understand that...If you don't wanna listen to me, listen to Isaiah Thomas, who said Kobe is right up there with Jordan, and can possibly surpass him when his career is over. Isaiah Thomas KNOWS Jordan...He played against Jordan back in Jordan's glory days...And if you don't wanna listen to Isaiah, listen to a former teamate of Jordans, who said, "I've never seen someone like Kobe in the clutch" after his miraculous shot in game 2...I'm sorry, but you guys have a lot to learn...Shaq had 14 points and 7 rebounds the other night...I guess he's not one of the greatest centers of all time ::)
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Zeke and Jordan also hated each other, so I take anything said about Jordan out of his mouth with a grain of salt. I don't agree with the comparisons. Kobe needs to keep doing this for another 6 or 7 years before the real comparisons start.
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Jordan never had off games in the finals? Wow, you guys must only know Jordan by the highlights you see on ESPN...Jordan HAS had off games in the finals...And look at the fuckin situation Kobe is in man...People are surprised that he's even able to play with everything that's going on...But you guys will never understand that...If you don't wanna listen to me, listen to Isaiah Thomas, who said Kobe is right up there with Jordan, and can possibly surpass him when his career is over. Isaiah Thomas KNOWS Jordan...He played against Jordan back in Jordan's glory days...And if you don't wanna listen to Isaiah, listen to a former teamate of Jordans, who said, "I've never seen someone like Kobe in the clutch" after his miraculous shot in game 2...I'm sorry, but you guys have a lot to learn...Shaq had 14 points and 7 rebounds the other night...I guess he's not one of the greatest centers of all time ::)
please nik dont give me that i have a lot to learn bull shit considering the fact i schooled you on b-ball countless times. Find me a finals series where jordan had back to back shitty games like kobe did. Jordan is the greatest player in NBA finals history. And not to take anything away from kobe who i think is the best clutch player currently in the NBA. An i dont kno if i should feel sorry for kobe about how hes playin with a lot of pressure on him cuz of this rape case. for all we kno he could of araped her. anways he bought this upon himself he should of never been fuckin around on his wife in the first place. an who was this former team mate of jordans that said he had never seen a player like that in the clutch like kobe. Is this the same source that said the nba has better ratings than major league baseball???
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Zeke and Jordan also hated each other, so I take anything said about Jordan out of his mouth with a grain of salt. I don't agree with the comparisons. Kobe needs to keep doing this for another 6 or 7 years before the real comparisons start.
yup. another thing.... these analyist are told to say shit like this. To get people talking an plus the fact the NBA is still looking for that superstat like jordan. So if you keep talkin about how great an jordan like a player is people are goin believe it.
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Jordan never had off games in the finals? Wow, you guys must only know Jordan by the highlights you see on ESPN...Jordan HAS had off games in the finals...And look at the fuckin situation Kobe is in man...People are surprised that he's even able to play with everything that's going on...But you guys will never understand that...If you don't wanna listen to me, listen to Isaiah Thomas, who said Kobe is right up there with Jordan, and can possibly surpass him when his career is over. Isaiah Thomas KNOWS Jordan...He played against Jordan back in Jordan's glory days...And if you don't wanna listen to Isaiah, listen to a former teamate of Jordans, who said, "I've never seen someone like Kobe in the clutch" after his miraculous shot in game 2...I'm sorry, but you guys have a lot to learn...Shaq had 14 points and 7 rebounds the other night...I guess he's not one of the greatest centers of all time ::)
please nik dont give me that i have a lot to learn bull shit considering the fact i schooled you on b-ball countless times. Find me a finals series where jordan had back to back shitty games like kobe did. Jordan is the greatest player in NBA finals history. And not to take anything away from kobe who i think is the best clutch player currently in the NBA. An i dont kno if i should feel sorry for kobe about how hes playin with a lot of pressure on him cuz of this rape case. for all we kno he could of araped her. anways he bought this upon himself he should of never been fuckin around on his wife in the first place. an who was this former team mate of jordans that said he had never seen a player like that in the clutch like kobe. Is this the same source that said the nba has better ratings than major league baseball???
You're right, you can't compare them yet, because Kobe hasn't even played half his career yet...But at the rate Kobe is going, he will MOST DEFINITELY be up there, and you can't say no...Most players would have taken the year off with all the shit Kobe has been through...This guy is simply amazing, he comes back from Colorado right before tipoff from a court case that barely ended, and scores 42 points in the game...Jordan never did that...By the end of Kobe's career, we will all be able to compare...Just watch.
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How old are these fucking idiots saying Kobe is even close to as good as Jordan? What we are seeing in the finals is that it IS Shaq who is the best Laker, Kobe has been horrible in the finals (despite hitting some very difficult shots).
And Nik, as for Jordan having off games in the finals, just know Jordan played in six finals, got MVP six times mutherfucker! After this series, Kobe will have played four finals and have zero finals mvps. Is that a good enough comparsison for you or do we need to explain it better?
True, if Kobe dominates the next three games and the Lakers do win, then and only then can you start the Kobe/Jordan comparisons. Until then, its a bit premature. Sure, Kobe is a GREAT player at a very young age, but he still has a long way to go. I think he will sign elsewhere after this year and try to find HIS OWN team, where he doesnn't have to defer to Shaq. Then we will see if Kobe can win one being the main player....
as for Isaih saying Kobe>Jordan, know that it was isaih who froze out jordan in the first all star game, and it was isaih who led his team off the court with out shaking hands when they lost to the bulls after the pistons two titles. So NIK, get your shit straight.............Nik, it is probably you who only knows of Jordna from the highlights, and that is the reason you cant comprehend how good and how clutch he was..........peace
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And NIK, you just say dumber and dumber shit. Jordan never came from a court case and scored 42 because he never raped a 19 year old girl, end of story......most people lost more respect over this case Kobe has caught, but others listen to the NBA hype machine and have become even more enthralled with Kobe. Get your own fucking mind buddy........
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an who was this former team mate of jordans that said he had never seen a player like that in the clutch like kobe. Is this the same source that said the nba has better ratings than major league baseball???
Straight from the L.A. Times (Thursday June 10, 2004 in the Sports section):
"An NBA player called me Wednesday morning to gush about Bryant's shot in Game 2, to say he'd never seen anyone like him in the clutch. The guy was a former teamate of Michael Jordan."
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How old are these fucking idiots saying Kobe is even close to as good as Jordan? What we are seeing in the finals is that it IS Shaq who is the best Laker, Kobe has been horrible in the finals (despite hitting some very difficult shots).
And Nik, as for Jordan having off games in the finals, just know Jordan played in six finals, got MVP six times mutherfucker! After this series, Kobe will have played four finals and have zero finals mvps. Is that a good enough comparsison for you or do we need to explain it better?
True, if Kobe dominates the next three games and the Lakers do win, then and only then can you start the Kobe/Jordan comparisons. Until then, its a bit premature. Sure, Kobe is a GREAT player at a very young age, but he still has a long way to go. I think he will sign elsewhere after this year and try to find HIS OWN team, where he doesnn't have to defer to Shaq. Then we will see if Kobe can win one being the main player....
as for Isaih saying Kobe>Jordan, know that it was isaih who froze out jordan in the first all star game, and it was isaih who led his team off the court with out shaking hands when they lost to the bulls after the pistons two titles. So NIK, get your shit straight.............Nik, it is probably you who only knows of Jordna from the highlights, and that is the reason you cant comprehend how good and how clutch he was..........peace
Yea, but how long did it take Jordan to get to that first ring? That's right bitch...You can call me an idiot, but then you'll just be calling 75% of NBA analysts idiots as well...If you're dismissing Kobe that quickly (before he's even halfway through his career), then I think YOU'RE the idiot... ::)
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And NIK, you just say dumber and dumber shit. Jordan never came from a court case and scored 42 because he never raped a 19 year old girl, end of story......most people lost more respect over this case Kobe has caught, but others listen to the NBA hype machine and have become even more enthralled with Kobe. Get your own fucking mind buddy........
Kobe raped her? Oh yea, I forgot, guilty until proven innocent, right? Especially when it's some dumb bitch who tried comitting suicide twice, and had sex the day after she got "raped"...Damn, how much dumber can you get.
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I think the title of the topic is right on point... the comparisons should stop... for now. Until we can see all of the accomplishments that Kobe will achieve, it's not fair to compare him to somebody who is already retired. The boy is simply amazing though... and just when you think you've seen all he can do, he comes up with something more spectacular. Love him or hate him, you have to give him his props.
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yo man, you miss my fucking point, this is why everyone thinks you are a fucking idiot. You say jordan never came from a court date to score forty, who gives a fuck. While jordan wasnt a model citizen, he never caught a case so he was never in the situation!!! is that to hard to understand?
and NIK, do you even read my post, cuz you dont actually respond to any point i make man......i do acknowledge Kobe has a long career left, and its hard to say if he will be better without shaq next year or if he is better with Shaq. I know he will have a great career, he already has..........its just premature to compare, because he has YET to put his name on even one MVP. Its not to say Shaq won that shit by himself, but he was the MVP, not Kobe. Just like Jordan at this age, people did not think MJ was as good as Magic or Bird............
I have always said Kobe could end up being better than MJ, but so far its not even close man. IF he takes this series over and the LAkers win another title, that would be a start.....
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So you're basically agreeing with what I'm saying, yet calling me an idiot at the same time...I said you can't count Kobe out, because his career isn't even close to finished, and by the end of his career, he WILL be up there with Jordan...And you say I didn't read YOUR posts?
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if Kobe leaves the Lakers now and goes to a team that doesnt have an amazing player in it, like the clippers, then we will see what he can do. as long as he has the most dominant player in his team it's just not possible.
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i agree that we need to wait until kobe has finished his career. but saying that the scoring of the two players makes them better players is wrong. how many other dominant players were in chicago. pippen was consitent but jordan had priority over him. kobe does not have that comfort shaq gets the ball more than kobe does. so the scoring is spread around a lot more on the lakers team when compared to the bulls team. if kobe was in that bulls team i think he would be putting up numbers like jordan. the bulls never had a dominant center
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yeah we should end the comparisons, cause kobe is better.
Better at raping chicks...Jordan just promises them 5 million dollars ;D
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kobe is the next penny hardaway...wait and see once their is no shaq
no i saw every finals game jordan played in and never did he play anywhere near as bad as kobe did
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How old are these fucking idiots saying Kobe is even close to as good as Jordan? What we are seeing in the finals is that it IS Shaq who is the best Laker, Kobe has been horrible in the finals (despite hitting some very difficult shots).
And Nik, as for Jordan having off games in the finals, just know Jordan played in six finals, got MVP six times mutherfucker! After this series, Kobe will have played four finals and have zero finals mvps. Is that a good enough comparsison for you or do we need to explain it better?
True, if Kobe dominates the next three games and the Lakers do win, then and only then can you start the Kobe/Jordan comparisons. Until then, its a bit premature. Sure, Kobe is a GREAT player at a very young age, but he still has a long way to go. I think he will sign elsewhere after this year and try to find HIS OWN team, where he doesnn't have to defer to Shaq. Then we will see if Kobe can win one being the main player....
as for Isaih saying Kobe>Jordan, know that it was isaih who froze out jordan in the first all star game, and it was isaih who led his team off the court with out shaking hands when they lost to the bulls after the pistons two titles. So NIK, get your shit straight.............Nik, it is probably you who only knows of Jordna from the highlights, and that is the reason you cant comprehend how good and how clutch he was..........peace
Yea, but how long did it take Jordan to get to that first ring? That's right bitch...You can call me an idiot, but then you'll just be calling 75% of NBA analysts idiots as well...If you're dismissing Kobe that quickly (before he's even halfway through his career), then I think YOU'RE the idiot... ::)
Do you really think Kobe would have even made it near the finals if Shaq wasn't on the team? You can replace Kobe with like ten other guys out there and Shaq will still win championships with them.
You wanna compare Kobe to someone, compare him to Pippen. They're both great supplementary player who need a leader to take them to the finals.
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ok you guys are forgetting how good kobe really is. of course without shaq he couldnt get to the finals. because even michael jordan needed a good team to get to the championship. You honestly think that if it was jordan, and 4 horrible players they would have won all the championships? hell no.
kobe AND shaq play a part in the championship games.
god i swear he plays 2 bad games and suddenly hes a mediocre player.
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The Bulls without Jordan were not the Clippers...so please dont say if Kobe joins the clippers we will see how they really match up.
The only fucken possible way u can see the difference if Kobe goes back in time and live in Jordans shoes when Phil Jackson comes in and brings the triangle offense and gives him the talk of distributing the ball to his teammates.
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yeah we should end the comparisons, cause kobe is better.
:o that was unbelievably retarded lol
u have to measure a player for what theyve done their entire career. Kobe's had so many up n down moments, never has been as consistent as Jordan was...especially during playoff time. Maybe by the end of Kobe's career u could make a comparison, but u have to wait and see what he does from here on out. Its like Ken Griffey Jr. He was on pace to break damn near every single slugging record out there, and maybe be one of, if not the best hitters of all time. 8-9 yrs ago, people were saying he was a better player then Willy Mays and a better slugger then Hank Aaron...and now, he's just barely gettin back into the spotlight. So u gotta let a career play all the way out before u compare someone...especially to somebody like Jordan.
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i dont get people who compare kobe and jordan...for example people talk about how kobe got 3 rings so early it took jordan for ever to get his or whatever......well of course your going to do that when you have shaq and a good team at your side.....jordan didnt have that.....but then the whole kobe scores less and does less than jordan cause jordan had a kinda weak team and he did everything....wtf is that all about stick to one thing....its like shaq is on the team so he cant score......kobe has 3 rings way earlier than jordan he is better.....well its cause he had shaq too....i dont know if you see what im trying to say...but its stupid....its like back and forth at first its good to have shaq and then its bad to have shaq......jordan was great regardless and no one has even come close to what he has done for the league and how he has influenced and changed the league.....kobe has a long trip before i can even mention them in the same league....
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The Bulls without Jordan were not the Clippers...so please dont say if Kobe joins the clippers we will see how they really match up.
The only fucken possible way u can see the difference if Kobe goes back in time and live in Jordans shoes when Phil Jackson comes in and brings the triangle offense and gives him the talk of distributing the ball to his teammates.
the bulls b4 pippen and the first year into his career were a lot worse than the current clippers.
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ok you guys are forgetting how good kobe really is. of course without shaq he couldnt get to the finals. because even michael jordan needed a good team to get to the championship. You honestly think that if it was jordan, and 4 horrible players they would have won all the championships? hell no.
kobe AND shaq play a part in the championship games.
god i swear he plays 2 bad games and suddenly hes a mediocre player.
What I am trying to say here is Kobe can be replaced. If you put him on another big team between '99 and 2001 his team would still lose to the Lakers, aslong as they had someone half descent to replace him.
With Jordan this isn't the case. To say he could go on any team in the mid '90s and win the championship is absurd, but what is for sure is if he left the Bulls, the Bulls would not win. Now if Jordan had joined the Pistons, Spurs, Knicks, Suns, Magic, Jazz or even the Lakers, any one of those teams would have been champs. If Kobe left and joined the top contenders, the only team you could make a case for is Sacramento or San Antonio.
The bottom line is; one is a legend the other is just a really good ball player.
Jordan can be argued as being the best ever. Russel, Wilt, Larry, Magic, Isaiah, hell even Duncan are all way more important for a team than Kobe will ever be. You can quote me on that one.
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^^You are one fuckin' idiot for saying Kobe is more comparable to Pippen...Shawn Marion is comparable to Pippen, not Kobe, you fuckin moron. ::)
You will all see in the near future- quote me on that
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^^You are one fuckin' idiot for saying Kobe is more comparable to Pippen...Shawn Marion is comparable to Pippen, not Kobe, you fuckin moron. ::)
You will all see in the near future- quote me on that
I just wanna say this has nothing to do with what happened last night, I always thought Kobe was great but never legendary. He will never carry a team to the championship as the marquee guy, and time will prove this.
And don't put down Pippen, he was a very important aspect to the Bulls (much like Kobe was with LA), he just wasn't the key to their victories. You can call me a "fuckin moron" all you want but if you seriously think that Shaq was not the main reason LA won those three championships then you need help.
If Kobe's the reason LA won those championships, then Dwight Clark's the reason the 49ers beat the Cowboys in '81, and that Joe Montana guy is just the one that threw the ball to him. Or better yet Robert Parrish is the only reason Larry Bird ever won anything.
How long have even been watching sports?
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you guys are so fucking stupid.
you honestly think kobe has no part in the lakers????
him and shaq are 50/50 in the reasons lakers win. have you guys ever watched a lakers game? he doesnt usually do that bad. usually hes awesome. dont judge him by just the finals series.
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^^You are one fuckin' idiot for saying Kobe is more comparable to Pippen...Shawn Marion is comparable to Pippen, not Kobe, you fuckin moron. ::)
You will all see in the near future- quote me on that
I just wanna say this has nothing to do with what happened last night, I always thought Kobe was great but never legendary. He will never carry a team to the championship as the marquee guy, and time will prove this.
And don't put down Pippen, he was a very important aspect to the Bulls (much like Kobe was with LA), he just wasn't the key to their victories. You can call me a "fuckin moron" all you want but if you seriously think that Shaq was not the main reason LA won those three championships then you need help.
If Kobe's the reason LA won those championships, then Dwight Clark's the reason the 49ers beat the Cowboys in '81, and that Joe Montana guy is just the one that threw the ball to him. Or better yet Robert Parrish is the only reason Larry Bird ever won anything.
How long have even been watching sports?
Without Shaq the Lakers wouldn't have won, but without Kobe the Lakers wouldn't have won either...So check yourself, man.
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^^You are one fuckin' idiot for saying Kobe is more comparable to Pippen...Shawn Marion is comparable to Pippen, not Kobe, you fuckin moron. ::)
You will all see in the near future- quote me on that
GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE... MARION.... PLEASE.... NIK PLEASE DONT EVER EVER EVER EVEVEVEVEVEVEVEERERERERERERER SPEAK ON BASKETBALL AGAIN B/C YOU ARE THE FUCKIN MORON HERE. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT SAY BACK IN PIPPENS HEYDAY HE WAS THE SECOND BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE BEHIND MJ. NIK PLEASE JUST STFU RIGHT NOW. MARION IS A GOOD PLAYER BUT HE AINT EVEN TOP 10 IN THE LEAGUE HE AINT EVEN TOP 15 AN YOU COMPARE HIM TO PIPPEN. PIPPEN IS A 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME. NIK PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT BASKETBALL AGAIN.
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^^You are one fuckin' idiot for saying Kobe is more comparable to Pippen...Shawn Marion is comparable to Pippen, not Kobe, you fuckin moron. ::)
You will all see in the near future- quote me on that
GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE... MARION.... PLEASE.... NIK PLEASE DONT EVER EVER EVER EVEVEVEVEVEVEVEERERERERERERER SPEAK ON BASKETBALL AGAIN B/C YOU ARE THE FUCKIN MORON HERE. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT SAY BACK IN PIPPENS HEYDAY HE WAS THE SECOND BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE BEHIND MJ. NIK PLEASE JUST STFU RIGHT NOW. MARION IS A GOOD PLAYER BUT HE AINT EVEN TOP 10 IN THE LEAGUE HE AINT EVEN TOP 15 AN YOU COMPARE HIM TO PIPPEN. PIPPEN IS A 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME. NIK PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT BASKETBALL AGAIN.
LMAO, you're retarded, go watch baseball...Anyone remember what happened to the Bulls when Jordan retired the first time? Yea, I remember it quite well...Put Pippen in his prime on the Suns instead of Shawn Marion, and see if there would be any difference...I highly doubt it. Pippen was the most overrated player of all time back in the Bulls glory days, anyone who knows basketball will tell you that... ::)
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^^You are one fuckin' idiot for saying Kobe is more comparable to Pippen...Shawn Marion is comparable to Pippen, not Kobe, you fuckin moron. ::)
You will all see in the near future- quote me on that
GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE... MARION.... PLEASE.... NIK PLEASE DONT EVER EVER EVER EVEVEVEVEVEVEVEERERERERERERER SPEAK ON BASKETBALL AGAIN B/C YOU ARE THE FUCKIN MORON HERE. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT SAY BACK IN PIPPENS HEYDAY HE WAS THE SECOND BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE BEHIND MJ. NIK PLEASE JUST STFU RIGHT NOW. MARION IS A GOOD PLAYER BUT HE AINT EVEN TOP 10 IN THE LEAGUE HE AINT EVEN TOP 15 AN YOU COMPARE HIM TO PIPPEN. PIPPEN IS A 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME. NIK PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT BASKETBALL AGAIN.
LMAO, you're retarded, go watch baseball...Anyone remember what happened to the Bulls when Jordan retired the first time? Yea, I remember it quite well...Put Pippen in his prime on the Suns instead of Shawn Marion, and see if there would be any difference...I highly doubt it. Pippen was the most overrated player of all time back in the Bulls glory days, anyone who knows basketball will tell you that... ::)
yea i do remember what happened when jordan left the bulls. On a weak team pippen single handly took them to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Only to lose a game 7 to the knicks. Yea i rememeber. an what people that kno basketball will say pippen was overatted. OK you think he is overatted but you said people that know basketball so there goes ur opinion on the matter. And he must of dont something right to be in the 50 greatest players of all time. NIK please stop it now.
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Tom, isn't it baseball season? Get out of here...
Scottie Pippen:
Year Team Mins FG% 3P% FT% Reb APG SPG BPG TO PPG
87-88 CHI 20.9 .463 .174 .576 3.80 2.1 1.15 .66 1.66 7.9
88-89 CHI 33.1 .476 .273 .668 6.10 3.5 1.90 .84 2.73 14.4
89-90 CHI 38.4 .489 .250 .675 6.70 5.4 2.57 1.23 3.39 16.5
90-91 CHI 36.8 .520 .309 .706 7.30 6.2 2.35 1.13 2.83 17.8
91-92 CHI 38.6 .506 .200 .760 7.70 7.0 1.89 1.13 3.09 21.0
92-93 CHI 38.6 .473 .237 .663 7.70 6.3 2.14 .90 3.04 18.6
93-94 CHI 38.3 .491 .320 .660 8.70 5.6 2.93 .81 3.22 22.0
94-95 CHI 38.2 .480 .345 .716 8.10 5.2 2.94 1.13 3.43 21.4
95-96 CHI 36.7 .463 .374 .679 6.40 5.9 1.73 .74 2.69 19.4
96-97 CHI 37.7 .474 .368 .701 6.50 5.7 1.88 .55 2.61 20.2
97-98 CHI 37.5 .447 .318 .777 5.20 5.8 1.80 .98 2.48 19.1
Shawn Marion:
Year Team Mins FG% 3P% FT% Reb APG SPG BPG TO PPG
99-00 PHO 24.7 .471 .182 .847 6.5 1.4 .75 1.04 1.00 10.2
00-01 PHO 36.2 .480 .256 .810 10.7 2.0 1.67 1.37 1.63 17.3
01-02 PHO 38.4 .469 .393 .845 9.9 2.0 1.84 1.06 1.78 19.1
02-03 PHO 41.6 .452 .387 .851 9.5 2.4 2.28 1.17 1.94 21.2
03-04 PHO 40.7 .440 .340 .851 9.3 2.7 2.11 1.32 1.97 19.0
How can you even say they don't compare? Exit this thread immediately... 8)
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nik why do u keep sayin its baseball season when is chooled you plently of times on basketball while you still tryin 2. get the fuck outta here
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nik why do u keep sayin its baseball season when is chooled you plently of times on basketball while you still tryin 2. get the fuck outta here
How did you school me? LMAO...I just posted up stats that are EASILY comparable, and that's the response you come up with? Get the fuck out of here, you don't know shit.
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i think jordan is better but i do think if kobe can do taht good even when hes going through that court trial he can do better when hes not and he will get as big and good as jordan and they will be on the same ladder...
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Well Kobe isnt on the level of SHaq, i DO thinks its safe to say he IS better than Pippen was (someone was saying otherwise)......it will be interesting to see how kobe does without shaq- more shots, but also more double teams. Cant wait to see, i'm thinking he'll lead the league in scoring for sure.
NIK, as for comparing Pippen wioth Marion, its not even close as of now. YOu cant just look only at numbers and compare people. If you werent old enough to watch pippen or jordan, you likely have no idea how good they really were in their prime. Numbers do not mean everything. Besides, they play different types of games- pippen was a point forward.Pippen did so many little things on the court, he was a great all around player. Of course, i think marion is the shit and if you put him with kobe that would be incredible. Kobe is gonna have to find some very unselfish but talented teammates if he wants to do what jordan did.....the reason pippen was so good is he knew his role. He wasnt trying to be the man all the time, he understood his talents and played a very all around game.
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Another thing is, Kobe is averaging LESS assists, rebounds, and points than CHAUNCEY BILLUPS.
How the fuck is Kobe only averaging 2 rebounds? Say what you want about kobe's scoring, but 2 rebounds doesnt cut it............he is playing horrible, and the refs are not keeping him from playing well, he just is sucking
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NIK, as for comparing Pippen wioth Marion, its not even close as of now. YOu cant just look only at numbers and compare people. If you werent old enough to watch pippen or jordan, you likely have no idea how good they really were in their prime. Numbers do not mean everything. Besides, they play different types of games- pippen was a point forward.Pippen did so many little things on the court, he was a great all around player. Of course, i think marion is the shit and if you put him with kobe that would be incredible. Kobe is gonna have to find some very unselfish but talented teammates if he wants to do what jordan did.....the reason pippen was so good is he knew his role. He wasnt trying to be the man all the time, he understood his talents and played a very all around game.
Thing is, I've watched Pippen and Jordan in their prime...I've basically been watching basketball since I was born...Don't get me wrong, Pippen was an outstanding player, but definitely not on the level of Kobe...Kobe has a few off games, and all of a sudden, he's just a good player...I'm sure no one was saying he was "just a good player" when he scored that 3 over Hamilton to send it to overtime, or any other one of his tremendous game winning shots he's had in the past...Whatever, we'll see when it's all said and done...PeACe
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come on NIK...your shaun marion and pippen comparisons are a joke...pippen was no kobe...but he was damn close...he was top 10 nba player in his prime
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come on NIK...your shaun marion and pippen comparisons are a joke...pippen was no kobe...but he was damn close...he was top 10 nba player in his prime
Shawn Marion is closer to Pipped than Kobe is...That's all I got to say about that...PeACe
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Ya, the marion and pippen comparison is a joke, anyone can see that.
As for Pippen vs. Kobe, i admit Kobe is much more capable of being the main guy on his team, or at least i think he is. We will see next year.......I DO think Kobe is an amazing player, one of the best in the game. WHo said he is merely good or average NIK? He definitely looks average in the finals so far, shooting 40 percent and doing nothing but shooting wild shots, but im sure everyone knows he is great. WHoever said his career will go like Penny's after this year is trippin.........
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Kobe is one of the best players in the game right now, but I'm gonna let you guys in on a little secret; THE GAME SUCKS RIGHT NOW.
All you got is a bunch of street ballers who think the high light reel is more important than the score board. If Kobe was playing in the 80s, and wasn't on Philly, Boston, or LA, he never would have even come close to taking a team to the finals. Shaq very well could have, and probably won, at least once.
Shaq and Kobe is 50/50, if Kobe leaves, will they win as much? No, but they can still go far in the play offs. If Shaq leaves I'd wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even make thwe play offs. I remember the beginning of the Season (I think last year), Shaq was out for the first few weeks. Kobe had a near a triple double every game, and shined like a star, but the team went 3 for 12.
Like Red Auerbach strongly believed, personal stats don't mean shit if you're not winning the game. Kobe can impress all he wants, but he's gotta win. When he finally is alone and he loses pitifully, I'll be back to celebrate my prophecy.
Look at the game now, they let zone defense in because the guys suck at defense so much now they figured they'd cut them a break. Can you imagine Zone defense with Bird's Celtics? They would have won 3 more championships. There is a reason the ratings get lower every year, it's because smart Basket Ball took a back seat to showmanship and egos. The quality just isn't as high as it used to be. Maybe in individual skills it's higher, but teams win, not players.
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lol@ how this thread has turned from a Jordan/Kobe comparison...to a Kobe/Pippen comparison. I guess its safe to say that Kobe is not on the same level as Mike. lol.
Oh, and as for the whole Pippen/Kobe argument...its kind of bogus. Pippen was obviously on another level then Marion. To me, he was almost more of a T-Mac kind of player. And yes, Jordan did make those around him better. But they were two VERY different teams (lakers and bulls). When u have a dominant center (shaq), it sets up the rest of the floor. Big men, set up outside players. Its been that way since basketball was invented. Obviously there are times where u have a Magic, or a Stockton where things flip flop. Neither the Lakers or the Bulls have a Magic or a Stockton...in the times we're talkin about. Pippen played on a team with a dominant 2 guard. Even though Jordan could set up other players, if u play basketball...u know its not exactly the same. Players swarm to Shaq...two, sometimes three at a time. Making things VERY simple for perimeter players. A simple pass out of the double team to a cutting player and a lay-up/dunk. A simple pass out of the double team, and a second pass to an outside shooter for an open three. Good bigmen, set the offense up. Look how great the Rockets looked during their championship runs. Just having Hakeem in the middle, made their outside shooters look like allstars...when half of u couldnt name any of them if u didnt look it up on ESPN lol. Jordan was a score first, pass second kind of player. At the 2 guard. Which means he controlled the ball a majority of the game. A lot of times more then the point. Its not as easy to double team a perimeter player as it is a big man. U cant always send 2, or three people out to the three point line to guard somebody lol. So he was getting a lot of strait up matchups...which meant, he was takin it to the rim...and scoring. So Pippen was basically a clean up man. When Jordan left, Pippen did play good. I mean, look at the team he had. Not exactly a team full of All Stars...and he lead them to a successfull season (even if it wasnt a championship). If u took Shaq off the Lakers right now...i dont think LA would have even made it to the second round. And thats with Payton and Malone on the team with him.
Im not sayin Pippen is better then Kobe at all. Im just sayin, u cant compare them regardless.
Better scorer=Kobe
Better defender=Pippen
Better rebounds=Pippen
Better clutch player=Kobe
Better floor leader=Toss up (remember Pippen played with MJ)
Better team player=Pippen, obviously
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Kobe is one of the best players in the game right now, but I'm gonna let you guys in on a little secret; THE GAME SUCKS RIGHT NOW.
All you got is a bunch of street ballers who think the high light reel is more important than the score board. If Kobe was playing in the 80s, and wasn't on Philly, Boston, or LA, he never would have even come close to taking a team to the finals. Shaq very well could have, and probably won, at least once.
Shaq and Kobe is 50/50, if Kobe leaves, will they win as much? No, but they can still go far in the play offs. If Shaq leaves I'd wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even make thwe play offs. I remember the beginning of the Season (I think last year), Shaq was out for the first few weeks. Kobe had a near a triple double every game, and shined like a star, but the team went 3 for 12.
Like Red Auerbach strongly believed, personal stats don't mean shit if you're not winning the game. Kobe can impress all he wants, but he's gotta win. When he finally is alone and he loses pitifully, I'll be back to celebrate my prophecy.
Look at the game now, they let zone defense in because the guys suck at defense so much now they figured they'd cut them a break. Can you imagine Zone defense with Bird's Celtics? They would have won 3 more championships. There is a reason the ratings get lower every year, it's because smart Basket Ball took a back seat to showmanship and egos. The quality just isn't as high as it used to be. Maybe in individual skills it's higher, but teams win, not players.
First of all, playoffs and basketball are both one word...Second off, the Final's ratings have doubled from last season...Third of all, that crap you said about the Lakers going 3 for 12 with Kobe getting tripple doubles is a load of bullshit...Lakers have never lost when Kobe had a tripple double... ::)
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lol@ how this thread has turned from a Jordan/Kobe comparison...to a Kobe/Pippen comparison. I guess its safe to say that Kobe is not on the same level as Mike. lol.
Oh, and as for the whole Pippen/Kobe argument...its kind of bogus. Pippen was obviously on another level then Marion. To me, he was almost more of a T-Mac kind of player. And yes, Jordan did make those around him better. But they were two VERY different teams (lakers and bulls). When u have a dominant center (shaq), it sets up the rest of the floor. Big men, set up outside players. Its been that way since basketball was invented. Obviously there are times where u have a Magic, or a Stockton where things flip flop. Neither the Lakers or the Bulls have a Magic or a Stockton...in the times we're talkin about. Pippen played on a team with a dominant 2 guard. Even though Jordan could set up other players, if u play basketball...u know its not exactly the same. Players swarm to Shaq...two, sometimes three at a time. Making things VERY simple for perimeter players. A simple pass out of the double team to a cutting player and a lay-up/dunk. A simple pass out of the double team, and a second pass to an outside shooter for an open three. Good bigmen, set the offense up. Look how great the Rockets looked during their championship runs. Just having Hakeem in the middle, made their outside shooters look like allstars...when half of u couldnt name any of them if u didnt look it up on ESPN lol. Jordan was a score first, pass second kind of player. At the 2 guard. Which means he controlled the ball a majority of the game. A lot of times more then the point. Its not as easy to double team a perimeter player as it is a big man. U cant always send 2, or three people out to the three point line to guard somebody lol. So he was getting a lot of strait up matchups...which meant, he was takin it to the rim...and scoring. So Pippen was basically a clean up man. When Jordan left, Pippen did play good. I mean, look at the team he had. Not exactly a team full of All Stars...and he lead them to a successfull season (even if it wasnt a championship). If u took Shaq off the Lakers right now...i dont think LA would have even made it to the second round. And thats with Payton and Malone on the team with him.
Im not sayin Pippen is better then Kobe at all. Im just sayin, u cant compare them regardless.
Better scorer=Kobe
Better defender=Pippen
Better rebounds=Pippen
Better clutch player=Kobe
Better floor leader=Toss up (remember Pippen played with MJ)
Better team player=Pippen, obviously
Pippen a better defender than Kobe? I don't think so...And of course he's gunna get more rebounds, he's a forward...Kobe is easily the better all around/complete player...It's safe to say that Kobe is closer to Jordan than he is to Pippen...PeACe
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Anyone read the paper today? They were basically writing on how the pre '91 Jordan would be the most criticized person during the Eastern Conference Finals, because he would never pass the ball, but when he would make a good shot, he would be glorified as the best, and the writer in the end put "sounds familiar?"...
It's time to get off Jordans nuts, and realize there can one day be someone greater, and by the end of Kobe's career, he most likely will be the chosen one...PeACe
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And Tone's talking that "dominant center" crap, and how Bulls didnt have one...But thats why the TRIANGLE OFFENSE was perfect for the Bulls...Before the triangle offense, Jordan would always get smoked by the Pistons...Basically, before Phil Jackson, Jordan would carry his team to the Eastern Conference Finals, and he would always have a tough time shooting againts Detroit, because they would SMASH Jordan...one night he had a 5/15 shooting, next night he scored 19 points...I wish you people were a little more educated on the game... ::)
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Kobe is one of the best players in the game right now, but I'm gonna let you guys in on a little secret; THE GAME SUCKS RIGHT NOW.
All you got is a bunch of street ballers who think the high light reel is more important than the score board. If Kobe was playing in the 80s, and wasn't on Philly, Boston, or LA, he never would have even come close to taking a team to the finals. Shaq very well could have, and probably won, at least once.
Shaq and Kobe is 50/50, if Kobe leaves, will they win as much? No, but they can still go far in the play offs. If Shaq leaves I'd wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even make thwe play offs. I remember the beginning of the Season (I think last year), Shaq was out for the first few weeks. Kobe had a near a triple double every game, and shined like a star, but the team went 3 for 12.
Like Red Auerbach strongly believed, personal stats don't mean shit if you're not winning the game. Kobe can impress all he wants, but he's gotta win. When he finally is alone and he loses pitifully, I'll be back to celebrate my prophecy.
Look at the game now, they let zone defense in because the guys suck at defense so much now they figured they'd cut them a break. Can you imagine Zone defense with Bird's Celtics? They would have won 3 more championships. There is a reason the ratings get lower every year, it's because smart Basket Ball took a back seat to showmanship and egos. The quality just isn't as high as it used to be. Maybe in individual skills it's higher, but teams win, not players.
First of all, playoffs and basketball are both one word...Second off, the Final's ratings have doubled from last season...Third of all, that crap you said about the Lakers going 3 for 12 with Kobe getting tripple doubles is a load of bullshit...Lakers have never lost when Kobe had a tripple double... ::)
Your paragraph lacks parallelism. It contains no periods yet it has complete sentences. This a forum not an English class, and besides I don't think playoffs or play offs are even actual words. Furthermore, when I said the game sucks I didn't mean TV ratings, even though they are nowhere near the ratings they got in the glory days, (who care what they were last year? THe game has sucked since the late '90s.). Finally, I didn't say he got triple doubles, I said he almost got triple doubles. This means double doubles with a third stat being 8 or 9. In closing I would like to say that the greatest player of all time is Bill Russel, 11 championships in 13 years, and the greatest young player of all time is Larry Bird, if you saw what he did with the Celts his first year in you'd understand. So lets put all this Jordan vs. Kobe stuff to rest. Time will tell. I just don't think Kobe will be seen as better, ever, but I could be wrong.
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I dont think Bill Russell is the greatest of all time, but he IS likely the best leader and the best winner basketball has ever seen. Still, if MJ wouldn't have retired, bulls woulda won 8 in a row likely....
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And putting Bird over Magic is just off...
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The comparison is OFFICIALLY stopped as of tonight..... peace
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The comparison is OFFICIALLY stopped as of tonight..... peace
Oh, I didn't know Jordan won championships in all of his seasons...Thanks for enlightening me...
Like I said, how do you not remember the pre '91 Jordan being shut down in the Eastern Conference Finals by this same team? I'll say it one more time, you guys only know Jordan by highlights, and it's quite obvious...
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The comparison is OFFICIALLY stopped as of tonight..... peace
Oh, I didn't know Jordan won championships in all of his seasons...Thanks for enlightening me...
Like I said, how do you not remember the pre '91 Jordan being shut down in the Eastern Conference Finals by this same team? I'll say it one more time, you guys only know Jordan by highlights, and it's quite obvious...
an nik how old were you in 89 when the pistions beat the bulls.... 3. yea you remember
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Nik, just for curiosity, how old were you in 89? I was 10 man, i WAS watching that shit, but i wasnt a bulls fan and i NEVER have been. See, i am not a jordan groupie, i just recognize how incredible he was. I dont give a fuck about highlights, in fact i always hated jordan as i used to like the LAKERS with magic. BUt you have to recognize the greatest player ever....When Jordan was shut down by the pistons, his team was horrible. It woulda been the equivalent of these lakers but without shaq!!! Jordan was the only option that year, yet he did a lot more than kobe did in this series, and shot alot better percentage for the series overall, and also contributed in other areas. Kobe didnt pass well, didnt rebound, and didnt even barely defend..........
And NIK, i thought alot more of Kobe b4 this series, enough to bet 50 bucks on the series because i thought Kobe was gonna rip it up and get MVP. Instead, he did nothing, and looked quite mortal, which is something i NEVER saw in Jordan, especially not when he was 25. When Jordan was 25, he was ATTACKING the basket, blocking shots, stealing the ball, REBOUNDING, and above all you could see it really pained him to lose.....i can't say the same for kobe....
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Let me sum up this thread:
Jordan >>>>>>>> Kobe
No doubt in my mind about that
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Nik, just for curiosity, how old were you in 89? I was 10 man, i WAS watching that shit, but i wasnt a bulls fan and i NEVER have been. See, i am not a jordan groupie, i just recognize how incredible he was. I dont give a fuck about highlights, in fact i always hated jordan as i used to like the LAKERS with magic. BUt you have to recognize the greatest player ever....When Jordan was shut down by the pistons, his team was horrible. It woulda been the equivalent of these lakers but without shaq!!! Jordan was the only option that year, yet he did a lot more than kobe did in this series, and shot alot better percentage for the series overall, and also contributed in other areas. Kobe didnt pass well, didnt rebound, and didnt even barely defend..........
And NIK, i thought alot more of Kobe b4 this series, enough to bet 50 bucks on the series because i thought Kobe was gonna rip it up and get MVP. Instead, he did nothing, and looked quite mortal, which is something i NEVER saw in Jordan, especially not when he was 25. When Jordan was 25, he was ATTACKING the basket, blocking shots, stealing the ball, REBOUNDING, and above all you could see it really pained him to lose.....i can't say the same for kobe....
You're wrong...When Jordan was 25, he was criticized for being a selfish ball-hog even more so than Kobe...And to say that losing doesn't pain Kobe is ridiculous...Kobe has HEART...Maybe he didn't play to his full potential, but look at all the pressure and stress he's had on him mentally...Kobe cried last year when Lakers got eliminated...Ye sou'raying he was never pained to lose?...Please man, stop making Jordan out to be a basketball God...By the end of Kobe's career, you will all eat your words...PeACe
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Kobe does have heart. It would be dumb to say that he doesn't. Struggling in games doesn't necessarily mean that a player doesn't have heart. Maybe at the time, that's what he was capable of. Who knows what other bullshit he goes through besides the risk of being locked up. To say Kobe has no heart, or that he doesn't care about losing/winning would be a dumb thing to say, but it would also be dumb to try and compare Kobe to Jordan at this moment. Right now Kobe can't be compared to him. Jordan is a legend. Kobe has a long way to go. He could fall off, or he could become the best player ever. Nobody can say for certain at this moment; however, right now, if one was to actually try to compare the 2, it would be no matchup. Jordan carried his team on his shoulders, he took control of games, especially in critical ones, he made things happen when they needed to happen, etc. ( I won't even mention achievements )
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You obviously can't compare Jordan's whole career to Kobe's up 'til now...But you can easily compare them both at 25...Kobe still has a long way to go, and if he continues doing what he does, he will be on the Jordan level...The fact that he even played with all the legal issues this season is just amazing...PeACe
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And putting Bird over Magic is just off...
The Celtics were one of the worst teams in '79 (29-53). When Larry came in '80 they went to first place (61-21) and all the way to the conference finals. This was before McHale and Parrish. They were ahead of Magic's Lakers, a team that was having winning records and only got Magic from trading for a draft pick. Magic's good, but so were the Lakers. The Celtics sucked, but Larry was great.
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some quickies i'll throw out.... about this years pistons thumping jordan.... ::) jordan had to eventually get thrrough detroits original bad boy team wich was stronger than this years team....
the ONLY reason i'd take magic over bird is cause he was a 6'9 point gaurd
please after kobe's performance no more comparisons mj
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96-97 LAL 71 6 15.5 .417 .375 .819 .70 1.20 1.90 1.3 .69 .32 1.58 1.40 7.6
97-98 LAL 79 1 26.0 .428 .341 .794 1.00 2.10 3.10 2.5 .94 .51 1.99 2.30 15.4
98-99 LAL 50 50 37.9 .465 .267 .839 1.10 4.20 5.30 3.8 1.44 1.00 3.14 3.10 19.9
99-00 LAL 66 62 38.2 .468 .319 .821 1.60 4.70 6.30 4.9 1.61 .94 2.76 3.30 22.5
00-01 LAL 68 68 40.9 .464 .305 .853 1.50 4.30 5.90 5.0 1.68 .63 3.24 3.30 28.5
01-02 LAL 80 80 38.3 .469 .250 .829 1.40 4.10 5.50 5.5 1.48 .44 2.79 2.90 25.2
02-03 LAL 82 82 41.5 .451 .383 .843 1.30 5.60 6.90 5.9 2.21 .82 3.51 2.70 30.0
03-04 LAL 65 64 37.6 .438 .327 .852 1.60 3.90 5.50 5.1 1.72 .43 2.63 2.70 24.0
84-85 CHI 82 82 38.3 .515 .173 .845 2.00 4.50 6.50 5.9 2.39 .84 3.55 3.50 28.2
85-86 CHI 18 7 25.1 .457 .167 .840 1.30 2.30 3.60 2.9 2.06 1.17 2.50 2.60 22.7
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.00 3.20 5.20 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.70 3.80 5.50 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.80 6.20 8.00 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.70 5.10 6.90 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
90-91 CHI 82 82 37.0 .539 .312 .851 1.40 4.60 6.00 5.5 2.72 1.01 2.46 2.80 31.5
91-92 CHI 80 80 38.8 .519 .270 .832 1.10 5.30 6.40 6.1 2.28 .94 2.50 2.50 30.1
First 8 seasons each.
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^^And you think Kobe wouldn't be putting up those stats without having to share points with Shaq?...Anyone remember when Shaq was out last season, Kobe had that stretch of 10 straight games with 40 or more...Damn man, horrible way to compare.
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Nik, just for curiosity, how old were you in 89? I was 10 man, i WAS watching that shit, but i wasnt a bulls fan and i NEVER have been. See, i am not a jordan groupie, i just recognize how incredible he was. I dont give a fuck about highlights, in fact i always hated jordan as i used to like the LAKERS with magic. BUt you have to recognize the greatest player ever....When Jordan was shut down by the pistons, his team was horrible. It woulda been the equivalent of these lakers but without shaq!!! Jordan was the only option that year, yet he did a lot more than kobe did in this series, and shot alot better percentage for the series overall, and also contributed in other areas. Kobe didnt pass well, didnt rebound, and didnt even barely defend..........
And NIK, i thought alot more of Kobe b4 this series, enough to bet 50 bucks on the series because i thought Kobe was gonna rip it up and get MVP. Instead, he did nothing, and looked quite mortal, which is something i NEVER saw in Jordan, especially not when he was 25. When Jordan was 25, he was ATTACKING the basket, blocking shots, stealing the ball, REBOUNDING, and above all you could see it really pained him to lose.....i can't say the same for kobe....
You're wrong...When Jordan was 25, he was criticized for being a selfish ball-hog even more so than Kobe...And to say that losing doesn't pain Kobe is ridiculous...Kobe has HEART...Maybe he didn't play to his full potential, but look at all the pressure and stress he's had on him mentally...Kobe cried last year when Lakers got eliminated...Ye sou'raying he was never pained to lose?...Please man, stop making Jordan out to be a basketball God...By the end of Kobe's career, you will all eat your words...PeACe
lol youre the same guy that has been known to say after Laker losses....that they didnt really want to win the game. That they werent really trying to win. LOL funny shit
And yah, that "dominant center crap" i was saying...is what basketball is. If u dont understand what i was saying, then u know absolutely nothing about the game of basketball...other then what u read from Jack Haley every week lol.
And as for Jordan only reaching the conference finals before Phil. i suppose youre saying this because of all those great moments Kobe had during his first few years lol. I can still remember those airballs in the playoffs now. lol.
And yes, Pippen was a FAR better defender then Kobe. Far better. One on one he was a better defender, and in the TEAM game (which kobe still hasnt figured out), he was WAY better as a defender. And as for Pippen getting more rebounds only cus he's a forward. He's only 1 inch taller then Kobe, and more often then not worked outside the circle, sometimes running the point. Its not like he was power forward. Come on Nik, show me some knowledge just once lol. Something other then pasting up numbers u did a search for on the internet. lol. Kobe is definetely, without a doubt, hands down, not on the same level as Jordan. Like i said, he's got career of him...and maybe will reach that status. But as of now, he's now where close. And that isnt necessarily talent wise...its in his mentality, his leadership. He still from time to time, seems like the Kobe we saw his first 2 yrs in the league. NOT knowing when to shoot, NOT knowing when to get his team involved, NOT giving everything on D, NOT motivating his teammated. All parts of Jordans game, that Kobe still doesnt have. He shows flashes of it, and thats it. Then back to the immature ballhog.
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lol youre the same guy that has been known to say after Laker losses....that they didnt really want to win the game. That they werent really trying to win. LOL funny shit
When the fuck have I ever said that? You are an idiot, and a liar...
And yah, that "dominant center crap" i was saying...is what basketball is. If u dont understand what i was saying, then u know absolutely nothing about the game of basketball...other then what u read from Jack Haley every week lol.
I understand what a dominant center is...You obviously are to stupid to understand my point...Also, Jack Haley doesn't write.
And as for Jordan only reaching the conference finals before Phil. i suppose youre saying this because of all those great moments Kobe had during his first few years lol. I can still remember those airballs in the playoffs now. lol.
Kobe wasn't considered a star his rookie season (that's when he shot the airballs in the playoffs)...
And yes, Pippen was a FAR better defender then Kobe. Far better. One on one he was a better defender, and in the TEAM game (which kobe still hasnt figured out), he was WAY better as a defender. And as for Pippen getting more rebounds only cus he's a forward. He's only 1 inch taller then Kobe, and more often then not worked outside the circle, sometimes running the point. Its not like he was power forward. Come on Nik, show me some knowledge just once lol. Something other then pasting up numbers u did a search for on the internet. lol. Kobe is definetely, without a doubt, hands down, not on the same level as Jordan. Like i said, he's got career of him...and maybe will reach that status. But as of now, he's now where close. And that isnt necessarily talent wise...its in his mentality, his leadership. He still from time to time, seems like the Kobe we saw his first 2 yrs in the league. NOT knowing when to shoot, NOT knowing when to get his team involved, NOT giving everything on D, NOT motivating his teammated. All parts of Jordans game, that Kobe still doesnt have. He shows flashes of it, and thats it. Then back to the immature ballhog.
Like anyone who knows basketball will tell you, you CAN'T compare Kobe and Pippen, so just stop now...They are two different types of players, and on two completely different levels...You can't just post up stats and say the player with the better stats is better, just like I proved when I posted Shawn Marion's stats and compared them to Pippen's...If we were going by stats, Marion is the better player...PeACe
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^^And you think Kobe wouldn't be putting up those stats without having to share points with Shaq?...Anyone remember when Shaq was out last season, Kobe had that stretch of 10 straight games with 40 or more...Damn man, horrible way to compare.
Like I said before in this thread, you cant compare as long Kobe and Shaq play in the same team.
But hey, maybe this wont be the case anymore in a few weeks.
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Kobe proved in this series that he isn't the next Jordan because Kobe sucked in this series. Shaq was all the Lakers had and it sure as hell wasn't enough against a team that puts the team ahead of personal goals. Kobe also isn't a team player, he thinks it's all about him.
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some quickies i'll throw out.... about this years pistons thumping jordan.... ::) jordan had to eventually get thrrough detroits original bad boy team wich was stronger than this years team....
the ONLY reason i'd take magic over bird is cause he was a 6'9 point gaurd
please after kobe's performance no more comparisons mj
Bird could do anything Magic could do. Bird would run the point if needed be. The diffeerence is Bird proved he could take second rate teams to the championship. Magic's entire career, (College included) he's been with great teams. Bird made teams great. Not to take anything away Magic, if Bird is better it's only by very very very very small margin.
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Kobe proved in this series that he isn't the next Jordan because Kobe sucked in this series. Shaq was all the Lakers had and it sure as hell wasn't enough against a team that puts the team ahead of personal goals. Kobe also isn't a team player, he thinks it's all about him.
The fact that he even played with all the pressure and issues he was facing actually brings him closer to Jordan...He didn't wanna let the team down, he didn't take the year off like most players would have done...Just face it, Bryant is a great player, and will go down in history as one of the bests...
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with bird an magic i think them 2 its a matter of preference
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with bird an magic i think them 2 its a matter of preference
You're right. With Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, Jordan, and a couple others (Dr.J, West, Oscar), there is a plateau that there on where you can easily argue one over the other. Will any of today's players reach that plateau? Yeah sure. Guys like Shaq, and Duncan are almost there, but Kobe's got years to go.
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Duncan? no, Duncan has so much support, it might not seem like it but that team is very similar to the sacramento kings, their made up of very good players who are just below all star level and run deep in the bench. Duncan is very overatted IMO.
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Kobe>>>>>>>>Duncan
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Kobe>>>>>>>>Duncan
How do you figure? The Spurs can't win without Duncan. The Lakers can win without Kobe.
Easier for Lakers to rebuild around Shaq, than it is to build around Kobe.
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Spurs can win without Shaq...The games they won against the Lakers, he didn't even score in the second half... ::)
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Spurs can win without Shaq...The games they won against the Lakers, he didn't even score in the second half... ::)
I'm gonna let you and a couple others in on a little secret; just because a player doesn't score doesn't mean he isn't significant. I remember the '84 finals (at least I think it was '84), Lakers vs Celts. Maxwell shone like a star in the final game and Bird looked like he wasn't doing shit. The reason was the guy covering Maxwell was so worried about what Bird was doing he forgot about Maxwell. Bird's very presence was a key component to the win. The same can be said for Duncan and Shaq. I hope Shaq leaves and Kobe stays on the Lakers, cause I'll be waiting with a big "I told you so".
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Thing is, Duncan was like 0-10 from the field...Quit with the excuses, they're getting ridiculous...
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The problem is the only number in the NBA that really counts has a "W" next to it. Tim Duncan wins. If he leaves that team then San Antonio will not win. I don't give a fuck how many times he scores or how many times he's on the highlight reel, as long as he's winning he's a top ball player. Fans now a days care too much about the bullshit. If the Ws are there then leave it alone. San Antonio lose Robinson and still go pretty far in the play offs, or playoffs (what ever you wish), and next year they're gonna go even further.
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What's your point...You think if the Spurs would have replaced Duncan with Kobe, they wouldn't have gone far?...Lemme tell ya something, they would...As a matter of fact, they would go even further...PeACe
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What's your point...You think if the Spurs would have replaced Duncan with Kobe, they wouldn't have gone far?...Lemme tell ya something, they would...As a matter of fact, they would go even further...PeACe
If San Antonio loses Duncan there goes there big man, ass hole. Kobe iis not a replacement. Now if he were to join the spurs with DDuncan still there then you'd see them go further because Duncan could use a bitch at his side like Shaq has had all these years. Remember, next year will prove it, Kobe is a numbers player but not a winner.
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Shaq's back, but Lakers are less than invincible
BY ROBBI PICKERAL
Pioneer Press
There's a good reason why O'Neal's return at Staples Center on Nov. 22 was accompanied by the "Rocky" and "Superman" theme songs. Despite two triple-doubles and three 40-point outings from teammate Bryant, the Lakers still had their worst start in 36 years. They set a franchise record for fewest points in a game, when they scored 70 in a loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers. They averaged only 89.2 points and shot only 38.7 percent without O'Neal.
Two triple doubles, and three 40 point games, and only 3 for 9. Once Shaq returned it all turned around. I wish Kobe did leave this season, Shaq would've gotten more shots and the Lakers could have won.
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Nothing turned around, you missed the whole point of that article...It said even though Shaq came back, the Lakers were still "less than invincible"...The whole year was bad for the Lakers in the 2002-2003 season...You obviously haven't followed them, because Shaq wasn't the only one injured last season...Now go to sleep, you piece of shit...Stop trying so hard to discredit what so many analysts have called the best player of the new millennium...As far as Kobe not being able to replace Duncan, because the Spurs need a big man, LMAO...Ever heard of the Chicago Bulls?...Damn man, you're trying too hard to sound intelligent in your posts, and it shows. 8)
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The Chicago Bulls had Michael Jordan, but I guess that takes us back to square one. San Antonio was built around big men, changing everything around isn't gonna fly.
Just because you buy into the hype created by the media doesn't mean I'm going to. Let me guess Tyson's the greatest puncher of all time, right? Jay Z's the greatest rapper, correct? How about Titanic being the greatest movie in the last 15 years? Or maybe Kill Bill is the greatest work of art in the new millenium. Is Arod better than Babe Ruth?
You stupid kids pay so much attention to the new you automatically forget about the old. Kids like you think that someone playing now automatically makes him better then someone playing then. Like the human body has evolved in the past 50 years. A star is a star and a star wins. Shaq is a star, Kobe is not. Larry Bird was a star, Peirce is not. Bill Russel was a star, K.C. Jones was not.
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Were Paul Pierce or KC Jones ever considered the next Michael Jordan, let alone the best player in the NBA? I don't think so buddy...I doubt you even watch basketball... ::)
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Were Paul Pierce or KC Jones ever considered the next Michael Jordan, let alone the best player in the NBA? I don't think so buddy...I doubt you even watch basketball... ::)
Okay I'm going to stop arguing now because for one, you are missing the points of my posts (The media claims that he is the next Jordan because they need more stars to sell the game, and despite what you think ratings are not at their peak), and two, we are arguing what only time can prove. Next year when Kobe is alone one of us will have a big "I told you so" for the other.
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Were Paul Pierce or KC Jones ever considered the next Michael Jordan, let alone the best player in the NBA? I don't think so buddy...I doubt you even watch basketball... ::)
First of all, NIK do have like a homosexual crush on Kobe because everytime someone gives you facts of how Kobe isn't that great you defend him like he's your lover or something. Not that there's anything wrong with.
If Vince Carter could at one point be considered the next Michael Jordanthan Kobe could be too because Vince and Kobe are similar in that they much rather take a bunch of stupid shots than pass the ball off to someone who's wide open.
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LMAO@comparing Kobe to Vince...LOL, Vince doesn't play defense, that's why he'll never be the next Jordan...And I'm sorry, but no one can "give me facts of how Kobe isn't that great," because that all has to do with opinion, not facts... ::)
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LMAO@comparing Kobe to Vince...LOL, Vince doesn't play defense, that's why he'll never be the next Jordan...And I'm sorry, but no one can "give me facts of how Kobe isn't that great," because that all has to do with opinion, not facts... ::)
Fact: Kobe takes dumb shots
Fact: Kobe sometimes cares more about stats than winning
Guess what there was a time when Vince was considered the next Micheal Jordan dumbass.
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LMAO, YEA PEOPLE THOUGHT VINCE WOULD BE THE BEXT JORDAN WHEN HE WAS A ROOKIE, CUZ PEOPLE THOUGHT HE WOULD PROGRESS...JORDAN TOOK DUMB SHOTS TOO, EVERY PLAYER DOES...BUT TELL ME, YOU PIECE OF SHIT, HOW DO YOU KNOW KOBE CARES MORE ABOUT STATS? DID HE TELL YOU THIS?...OH, LET ME GUESS, YOU'RE GOD AND YOU KNOW EVERYTHING! JUST SHUTTTTT THE FUCK UP, CUZ YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW SHIT...