West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: hector on August 07, 2004, 08:24:14 PM
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rap imo was the best in the 90's, particularly up until 97. Back when Deathrow was running shit. the bay and sic wid it records had shit on lockdown. Everyone putting out albums on the westcoast was dropping such hot shit. Albums that I have heard hundreds of times over and over and still don't even get remotely tired of. Songs I could put on repeat for 20 times in a row and not get sick of. Albums that came out 10+ years ago and still sound fresh.
Me, personally, I think the music industry is ruined for good. I think the internet and business ruined music and there is nothing but downhill from here out. Nothing ever really sounds that good anymore. I get so bored with new albums so easily these days. Since 2000 I don't think there is one album thats dropped that I would give a 10/10 rating to. I mean there is good shit, but it sure doesn't have the replay value of the older stuff.
So what do you guys think? You think rap will ever be on the same level it was back in the early to mid 90's? and what are your reasons.
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I don't think it'll ever be as good as it was. Most music I hear now sounds so simple & boring. Sadly, this is the direction damn near everyone seems to be going. I ain't just talkin' about Rap, but music in general.
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of course it will be back. It's still there, just not as much, and it's harder to find.
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of course it will be back. It's still there, just not as much, and it's harder to find.
no its not. I get so much rap music. none of it is close to what it used to be. of course thats all due to opinon. Just curious, what would you consider the music that is still there? What albums do you consider so good that you will be able to bump 10 years from now such as Doggystyle, Chronic, Dogg Food, Regulate, Safe + Sound, Hemp Museum, In a Major Way, Killa Kali, Makaveli, Game Related, 187 Its On, etc.
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Rap has died a slow painful death, and has been dead for years. All the creativity and genius has left it, it's not as groundbreaking and new as it once was, and in my opinion in it's current state doesn't have the legs to survive much longer as any credible main stream music. They'll always be underground stuff, but then again there's also still bands doing disco and hair metal.
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All types of Music eventually die out..
Disco
New Wave
Heavy Metal
ect....
Well rap is alot more popular then it was back then beacuse of 50 cent, emimen, Nelly and all those fags but its not nearlly as good.
"Real" Rap is dead. Hip-hop is now POP
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It's hard for me to say rap is dying a slow death when Jadakiss just came out with some shit, Kanye West came out as the next great producer, Talib is coming out to some great music, dirty south I think is starting to fade as it's not one my radio all the time. I still got love for the south though, it's an important region for hip-hop growth, and the west, as it always comes down too, if Xzibit can ever get his shit right, he can carry the west to the next level with Game and other west artist. For the first time in many years, rap seems to be coming back. In 2002, it was only Eminem and Nas putting out shit that was creative, now you have Talib, Kanye, Jadakiss, Twista is back, Nas is coming back soon, Xzibit is coming back soon, Game should be doing his westcoast thing, the south is still stronge, hip-hop just seems to be getting stronger for the first time in a long time.
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In 2002, it was only Eminem and Nas putting out shit that was creative, now you have Talib, Kanye, Jadakiss, Twista is back, Nas is coming back soon, Xzibit is coming back soon, Game should be doing his westcoast thing, the south is still stronge, hip-hop just seems to be getting stronger for the first time in a long time.
What about 2003?
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It's hard for me to say rap is dying a slow death when Jadakiss just came out with some shit, Kanye West came out as the next great producer, Talib is coming out to some great music, dirty south I think is starting to fade as it's not one my radio all the time. I still got love for the south though, it's an important region for hip-hop growth, and the west, as it always comes down too, if Xzibit can ever get his shit right, he can carry the west to the next level with Game and other west artist. For the first time in many years, rap seems to be coming back. In 2002, it was only Eminem and Nas putting out shit that was creative, now you have Talib, Kanye, Jadakiss, Twista is back, Nas is coming back soon, Xzibit is coming back soon, Game should be doing his westcoast thing, the south is still stronge, hip-hop just seems to be getting stronger for the first time in a long time.
Twista's album Adrenaline Rush was wayyyyy better than his new album. again opinon comes into effect. the south imo sucks balls. game is weak and as avg as you can get. Kayne is just another producer, only poplular because of kids. He ain't no dr. dre, dj quik, battlecat, warren g, rhythm d, rick rock, bosko, mike mosely, khayree, etc. You can't judge him like that at all. He's barely been around. nas ain't gonna ever top his past work. jadakiss album is the same old shit. Talib is cool and new, but nothing that gets me excited. Xzibit is dope, but don't think he'll break any ground.
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i dont know rap really doesnt suck, its just that there are alot of bullshit artists that fuck up the game, u just gotta go thru the garabage, and there are some gems out there! its just that everyone is getting into the formula of club joint, than the girl joint, and then the street joint,,,,,,people really dont make whole good albums anymore,,,,,the west fell off big time and so did the east, u just gotta open your mind to shit right now............
the best albums that dropped this year doe that r close 2 classics are: IMO
Kanye West- College Dropout
Ghostface- The Pretty Toney Lp
ill be bumpin those joints in 5 years from now!
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of course it will be back. It's still there, just not as much, and it's harder to find.
no its not. I get so much rap music. none of it is close to what it used to be. of course thats all due to opinon. Just curious, what would you consider the music that is still there? What albums do you consider so good that you will be able to bump 10 years from now such as Doggystyle, Chronic, Dogg Food, Regulate, Safe + Sound, Hemp Museum, In a Major Way, Killa Kali, Makaveli, Game Related, 187 Its On, etc.
yeah you got me. lol. From 92-97 hip hop was at it's best IMO. After that, rap kinda changed it's style. nobody even flows like they did back then.
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It's a matter of taste. In 5 years the teenagers of '04 will probably say J-Kwon's album is classic.
No, wait. I take my words back. Spice 1 is from before my time, but at the moment I listen to him more than to any other rapper.
Hell no, rap will never be as good anymore as it used to be. Of course there will be albums in the future that will get a 10/10, but they will be rare, just like it is now.
Warren G and Nate Dogg said it on point:
NOBODY DOES IT BETTER
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I hope that rap will one day go bk to how it woz chances of dat tho r gettin lesser everyday we need a major label like death row that'll put these shitty pop rappers bk in their place they r fuckin it up for every1
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so many bad albums coming out now, i really hope game will suprise me, also im waitin to hear new eminem&xzibit. but i dont think it will b as good as it was early 90s. this year i would give college dropout 9,5/10, best album so far this year.
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Rap is dead.. Thats y 7 outta 10 of the top ten billboard artists are rap. They may not be good artists but as I see it rap keeps growing. Some people refuse to believe that because they are stuck in the past. I understand if you only like westcoast music because it was in its peak in the early-mid 90's.
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Rap is dead.. Thats y 7 outta 10 of the top ten billboard artists are rap. They may not be good artists but as I see it rap keeps growing. Some people refuse to believe that because they are stuck in the past. I understand if you only like westcoast music because it was in its peak in the early-mid 90's.
That's true. If you asked any hardcore rap fan in the early 90's they'd tell you rap is dead because people like Dre and Eazy are just commercial rappers, and Dr. Dre ain't no Jam Master Jay, Coolio and Ice Cube were sell outs, and 2Pac was ruining rap with his Thug Life. In the mid-90's rap died with Biggie and 'Pac dying, and Puffy selling out and Ma$e wearing flashy suits. In the late 80's early 90's, rap died with M.C. Hammer and Vanilla Ice, and 3rd Bass and all that. Hell, some people will tell you rap has been dead since 1988 and a bit of hope in 1994 and 1999. To you guys now, rap doesn't mean as much to you, it's a fad that when you're 35 you'll look back, see your kids listening to music you don't like, and say, I remember when my parents got pissed off I listen to rap music. My dad said the same thing when I liked Snoop when I was 13, and I was rapping his lyrics and he just said, well my dad didn't like the Beatles... lol. So if to you, rap isn't as good as it used to be, and you can't see the growth, and the fact that it's reached hights that the old school could only dream of, then rap is not your music. But if you can see the growth, see people like KRS-One who said you need the commercial part of rap to spread the culture, see that BREAKDANCERS ENTERED THE VATICAN TO PERFORM FOR THE FREAKIN' POPE!!! How much bigger can you get than to perform for a conservative religious leader. Hip-Hop, thanks to commercial has spread, and you see people like Jadakiss, like Talib Kweli, like a Nas keep a message in the music, and don't clown Kanye West. That man is soulful, and his right, his the new age Pete Rock. He took traditional hip-hop sped up samples, and put a more modern sound to it. No one said shit when Dr. Dre made Chronic 2001, when he took westcoast sound to the next level, so don't hate on Kanye for doing the same thing. To you, hip-hop is dying, to you hip-hop is not as good. But rap music and hip-hop is growing, and artist are still putting out good music, coming out with new sound, or modernizing old sounds like Kanye does, like Dre did. I've been a hardcore rap listener since I heard South Central Cartel on the radio with You Gotta Deal Wit' It and N2Deep has Back to the Hotel, and Hi-C had Sittin' in the Park all in regular rotation. Some of you guys would wet yourselves to hear that, but at the time people were talking about Eric B. and Rakim, Run DMC and Kool Moe Dee. You'll never make everybody happy. But if you truly love the art form, then you can see it's growth. If you can't then stop listening.
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Rap has died a slow painful death, and has been dead for years. All the creativity and genius has left it, it's not as groundbreaking and new as it once was, and in my opinion in it's current state doesn't have the legs to survive much longer as any credible main stream music. They'll always be underground stuff, but then again there's also still bands doing disco and hair metal.
an example of someone who rap was only a fad to them. IMO Kanye, Nas, Ghostface Killa and some others have plenty of creativity. More than in the early 90's when the only creativity was how big of a gangsta you were. Really listen to the lyrics back then, and see no one was saying shit. Just, I'm a gangsta, I can kill you, I'm a gangsta, you a pranksta, nigga I pull my trigga. That was it back then. Some had flashes, like 'Pac and they'll forever be remembered. But I ask you to name more than 10 artist in regular rotation in the early 90's that can be considered legendary. I can name a few, but not 10. Just like now I can name a few, but not 10. Same old shit, just a different day.
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Twista's album Adrenaline Rush was wayyyyy better than his new album.
agreed, but Illmatic is the best album Nas ever did, and that was 10 years ago. Does that mean Stillmatic and God's Son sucked balls
again opinon comes into effect. the south imo sucks balls.
The region is has the largest black population in the nation. In case you haven't noticed blacks play an important part of rap music. The southern region is very important for the growth and direction of rap music, for better or worst in your opinion, the south is too important to ignore in rap's growth
game is weak and as avg as you can get.
I'd put good money that Game would beat most old school westcoast rappers in a battle. Plus his a real gangsta, how much more can you ask for when you are talking about westcoast rap. Personally, I don't think too much of him, but if you wanna take it back to 1993, his the perfect rapper because his still there.
Kayne is just another producer, only poplular because of kids. He ain't no dr. dre, dj quik, battlecat, warren g, rhythm d, rick rock, bosko, mike mosely, khayree, etc. You can't judge him like that at all. He's barely been around.
His soulful, the main producer for a classic album called Blueprint, put out a few radio hits, and works with people like Talib Kweli, Dilated Peoples and Slum Village to help them emerge from the underground, well trying to put out his own conscience rappers, and he keeps it old school in his sound. I can't think of a better producer, because his sound is something I wished I came up with first... lol. When I was in high school I wanted to produce exactly like that. Stop hating give him his due.
nas ain't gonna ever top his past work. jadakiss album is the same old shit. Talib is cool and new, but nothing that gets me excited. Xzibit is dope, but don't think he'll break any ground.
Rakim never topped Paid In Full, Dre never topped Chronic, Jay-Z never topped Reasonable Doubt, but they all grew and put out the 18th Letter, 20001, Blueprint, and all of those albums where still good. Hell Nas said all artist should come out with a classic and that that hurts the game when artist can't start like that. I agree. Each artist needs to show their best to get regonized, not just a hot single.
Jadakiss's album is better than his first because of the growth. His on the news now, getting attention for rap as a political outlet, the first rapper to do so since Ice T, and Kiss the Game Goodbye was the same old shit, Kiss of Death is his maturity as a parent, and someone who care about more things than drug dealing and streets.
Talib is the next great rapper coming out. Listen to his music, listen to is close and try to argue. His the best out right now. Immortal Technique is too underground to be mentioned, but Talib is breaking out and will follow Rakim and Nas as the best lyrist of his generation.
Xzibit, has been expected to break ground for 4 years now. The moment he does, he'll finally take the westcoast crown that's been waiting for him. With Pimp My Ride, and his album called Weapons of Mass Distruction, I have hope he will. The build up to finally break ground gives him no choice but to do it.
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To alot of heads older than me (im 24), the golden age of rap was 88-92, with Big daddy kane, kool g rap, P.E., Slick Rick etc. I see there point, there was an amazing amount of classics made in those years, but its true that 92-96 or 97 were the best years (at least most of our favourites- i feel sorry for people who are like 16 now that missed out).........
Its crazy, there were so many dope albums dropping, it was impossible to hear everything back then without internet, so im always still catching up on the old shit, this new music will never be the same (although i definitely feel a couple new albums every once in a while)
Rap will NEVER be as good as it was, it hasnt evolved at all in the past 7 years, only taken steps backwards. Look at the difference from 86 to 90, or from 90 to 96, shit sounds totally different but still very dope. Now look at 97 compared to today, shit sounds the same still, but with worse lyrics, worse hooks, and more generic beats. No growth at all. Someone has to come with some new shit, and i dont mean this horrible crunk music.
Maybe Usher is right, popular rap is and always has been dependant on r&b and soul, and because of te horrible state of the r&b music scene, rap is sounding more redundant than ever. ANd really, are these rappers gonna sample these same 70's soul records for the next hundred years? Id say its likely, because thats all most new r7b singers do nowadays too.
Like it or not, music and melody are a huge part of rap and always haev been........what rap needs is an amazingly talented individual to step into the rap game and CREATE an original sound..........i respect people like Dre and Kanye obviously, but trut be told they cannot fuck with true musicians. Rap needs more true musicians, until then it is stuck where it is.........
and guys, i wouldnt really worry, if you look at all music today it is at perhaps the lowest point music has ever been in. Country has gone pop, rock all sounds like nickelback, and r&b just samples off old records mainly.........no music genre today is in any better state than rap, it is music as a whole
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im too lazy to read everyones post, but i think rap is dying, but good records are still coming out, 2003 was a great year, maybe for me, cause im not the biggest fan of westcoast rap,.. but exept for the faxct that quality doesnt sell but bullshit pop rap sells, thats my only problem with rap now,.. but eventully i think fans will get tired of the same rap, and underground rappers will get their chance
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I think rap is just fine right now. Maybe I think that way cause I'm not exposed to all the bullshit. I don't have MTV or BET and I don't listen to the radio so I'm just not as mad as other people that bullshit is selliing. I've never heard J-Kwon rap, I haven't heard one song from Da Band, Mase is back and I wouldn't have even known if it wasn't for the internet.
I think we're going to end the year with almost twenty good albums, that's a really good number in my books.
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Sooner or later, people will get tired of the flossing and shit. There will be a point in time where real hip hop will be on top, its just a matter of time. But I agree with M Dogg, you guys have to just realize that hip hop is evolving.
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sounds like yur talkin mostly about westcoast rap. Im sure if u ask someone from Down South theyd say rap is better now then ever lol. As for us, there's still really really good rap out there. Its just not gettin the exposure it did before. Most of the mainstream rappers, well...at least the VERY mainstream have been putting out bullllllshit. The underground rappers are puttin out far better shit. But unless u from the same town, u might not even know it.
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quik keeps rap fresh
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I don't think it'll ever be as good as it was.
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i can understand some of your points but i dont that shit so negative
there were so many dope records from kurupt, tha eastsidaz, warren g, dre etc
you only take the best 10 cds from that time and say whoa ...but forget that this were about the only recods that came out
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yeah the thang is like somone here said that noone is makin good ALBUMS..jsut good songs..thats sad
devin the dude is an exception tho IMO..thats the reason to mah sig...his first album is just as good as his last....and the one in the middle too ;)
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1986-1996: 100 classics
1997-2007: probable 10 classics
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1986-1996: 100 classics
1997-2007: probable 10 classics
are you talking albums or songs?
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The only years with tons of classics are 1988 and maybe 1994, though I can only think of Ready to Die and Illmatic. Go through each year, and you'll see at most, except for 1988, you'll get 4 classics. 2001 produced 2 with Blueprint and Stillmatic, 2002 produced 2 with The Fix and the Eminem Show, we can go on and on. 1991 really only produced a like 3 classics, including AmeriKKKa'z Most Wanted, 1992 The Chronic, 1993, 36 Chambers and Doggystyle. Now I'm talking classics, top of the line shit. 2004 has produced the College Cropout. Yeah, I'm calling it classic right now. It's classic, 5 mics, XXL, whatever you want to call it. So what if Kanye can't rap that well, he did better than Dre on Chronic, and his lyrics meant more than most songs on the Chronic. Take out 1988, and you really don't have many hip-hop classics. The old school gets remembered as classic because we all want to remember it like that. But true classics, I don't consider any Coolio album classic, I like them, but they ain't classic. Ruthless only produced 3 classics, we'd like to think everything Ruthless was classic, but only Straight Outta Compton, Eazy Does It (both 1988) and No One Can Do It Better (1989) were classics. Death Row, only 4 classics, The Chronic (1992), Doggystyle (1993), All Eyez On Me and Makaveli (both 1996) were classics. Classic is a very hard word to throw around.
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So M Dogg ,u say classic is a hard word to throw around, yet you call The Eminem Show a classic??? His worst album a classic? Man, you'd take that over tribe's first two, fugees score, dogg food.............and another thing, the fix was nice but it didnt even get close to touching the diary.......i agree with you on kanye (i think, too early to tell right now)
while i do acknowledge eminem has some great songs, he doesnt have ANY classics, and most people will admit this. If anything, his MMLP or Slim shady were closest........i could possibly see them as classics. But Eminem show? most considered that his worst album........
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it never will be like back in the 9o's
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imo it could be as good as it was in the 90´s...if all the right artists would hook up together in one studio (dre, daz, warren g, quik etc)...sharing their talent to bring us and the west something groundbreaking new.
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So M Dogg ,u say classic is a hard word to throw around, yet you call The Eminem Show a classic??? His worst album a classic? Man, you'd take that over tribe's first two, fugees score, dogg food.............and another thing, the fix was nice but it didnt even get close to touching the diary.......i agree with you on kanye (i think, too early to tell right now)
while i do acknowledge eminem has some great songs, he doesnt have ANY classics, and most people will admit this. If anything, his MMLP or Slim shady were closest........i could possibly see them as classics. But Eminem show? most considered that his worst album........
ah shit... i forgot about Tribe's first too. I didn't get into 1995, but only the Fugee's was a classic, Dogg Food was a good solid album, but not a classic. New York New York was a classic song, and a couple other tracks, but the album as a whole, not a classic.
I think Eminem Show was his best album, in that he showed growth, and maturity. Marshall Mathers LP was the best produced album by far, but the shock rap was annoying, and the Slim Shady LP was the closest I'd say, but replay value lacked more than the other CDs. The Eminem Show was his most personal album. I mean Sing For the Moment, and Square Dance, and Till I Collaps, I'd say the Eminem Show is his best album. Now I don't know if I'd take it over the Fugees, or Tribe, but I will say I thought it was closer to classic than Dogg Food.
Now you guys are thinking westcoast, and that's cool, this is a westcoast board, and I'd take a good westcoast era over anyother era. Give me the early 90's, when Dre, Eazy, Cube, Snoop, 2Pac, 4-Tay, Too $hort, Quik, Eiht, 2nd II None, Digital Underground, Coolio, and the rest of the west like Ahmad and Skee-Lo were dropping westcoast hits. But to say rap is not as good is not fair. The south right now is the main region. Back in the day it was the east, then the west, then the east again, now the south, in a while it'll be the east again, and then who knows, the mid-west? back to the west? back to the south? Rap is starting to do cycles, which happens to every culture. So we'll see where it takes us. But to say rap is not as good is not fair. Maybe rap is not as good on the radio to you guys, but then again, rap was never great on the radio unless you get a really good station. Radio is not as good, it's not a reflection on rap, that's a reflection on radio. Always has been, always will be. we'll see what comes out, right now people don't like laid back westcoast. I played some Knoc-Turn'al and some Shade Sheist at a dance, and people got mad. I played some unheard Lil' Jon at the time, and they got all happy, and asked how I got the new songs. (I was a college radio DJ, we had shit like 3 months before it was ever heard on the radio) so it's the people that want southern music, so it's not rap, it's not the artist, it's the people. I thought at the time Money Owners would get shit poppin', and Bad Intentions would get some noise, but the only ones that like that were the weed smokers. The rest wanted Lil' Jon. So,don't knock the art, knock what the people buy.
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All you need is one guy to change the game like Dre did and it can be as good as it used to be. I wish Quik became more popular cause he could have done a lot more than he did. These days not many people try to change the game and bring it to another level, most just try to make money. peace.
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I think the subject should be changed to "Do you believe west coast rap will ever be as good as it used to be?"
M Dogg said a lot of what I would have said. It is very true that fans from the 80s saw rap as bein dead in 93-96 which is when younger fans like me thought it was at a peak. Now it's just a coming of age for us. If you went down south, people definitely would not have anything negative to say about rap. Many of them really do think it is at it's peak right now, and for what they like and what they grew up on, you can't really be mad. I just think many people on this board are frustrated with how things have been going, and it's giving them a negative additude on rap. Personally, I think the west definitely has potential to be as good as it used to, and also, I think rap is still strong despite all the BS goin on in it. It would be an insult to many east coast rap fans to say that there haven't been any classic albums since the 90s. For people who aren't west coast fans, many believe that Blueprint, Get rich or die trying, the love below, any one of Em's albums, Scarface, Kanye, and many more albums are classic; and many believe these albums are better than everything that we consider classic.
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I believe great things are always compared to its counterpart from the past. This howver is unfair and often hard to judge because of the context in which the literature was written/performed in, differs to that of today.
Lets just say, some things change for the better....and some....dont.
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One Word: No.