West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Woodrow on January 28, 2005, 12:41:32 AM
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The Israeli defence minister, Shaul Mofaz, warned yesterday that Iran will reach "the point of no return" within the next 12 months in its covert attempt to secure a nuclear weapons capability.
Tehran denies pursuing a nuclear weapons programme.
Speaking in London before a meeting today with Tony Blair, Lieutenant General Mofaz said Iran was the main long-term threat to the world and stressed that it will not be permitted to build a nuclear bomb. "None of the western countries can live with Iran having a nuclear capability," he told reporters.
Gen Mofaz, a hawk in the Israeli cabinet, who has said in the past that Israel has operational plans in place for a strike against Iranian nuclear facilities, refused to rule out military action.
Mr Blair, speaking in the Commons yesterday, said the Iranian issue was serious. Asked by a former Labour minister, Michael Meacher, to give an "unequivocal and categorical assurance" that Britain would not take part in any attack on Iran, Mr Blair said: "I know of no such contemplation by the United States of America."
In an interview with the Financial Times yesterday, Mr Blair refused to rule out the option of using military force.
With the US bogged down in the Iraq conflict, opening another front in Iran would be risky. Iran's Shebab-3 rockets are theoretically capable of hitting Israel.
The Israeli and US rhetoric has grown more strident in the last week and could be aimed at pushing Britain, France and Germany into taking a tougher diplomatic approach towards Iran.
The US vice-president, Dick Cheney, said last week that Israel might launch a pre-emptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, as it did against Iraq's nuclear reactor at Osirak in 1981.
Gen Mofaz indicated yesterday that he thought the US rather than Israel should do it: "It is the strongest power that can stop any nuclear power, especially in the hands of an extreme regime."
US officials have confirmed privately a report by the US reporter Seymour Hersh, in the New Yorker, that US special forces have already been in Iran scouting out its nuclear facilities.
Gen Mofaz, who was born in Iran but left for Israel while a child, said: "Iran is very close to the point of no return, which means the enrichment of uranium, and we believe that the leadership of the US, together with the European countries, should stop as soon as possible this military nuclear programme in Iran."
He added that this point of no return would be reached "in less than a year" and that it would only be "a matter of years" after that that it would assemble the bomb .
The Israeli intelligence assessment, shared by the US and Britain, is that Iran could have a bomb by 2007.
The foreign secretary, Jack Straw, flew with his German and French counterparts to Tehran late in 2003 to broker a deal with Iran to suspend its enrichment programme. The deal broke down last year when the troika accused Iran of reneging on the deal. A new round of negotiations is under way and expected to drag on for at least a few months.
Like the US, which is equally sceptical, Israel is pushing for the issue to be referred to the United Nations for the imposition of sanctions and deep inspections by UN staff of Iran's nuclear facilities.
Gen Mofaz's comment about "point of no return" echoed a private briefing by Meir Dagan, the head of the Israeli overseas intelligence service, Mossad, to members of the Knesset on Monday. Mr Dagan said Mr Cheney's remark that Israel might make a pre-emptive strike was aimed at pressing Europe to adopt the tougher US approach towards Iran.
Britain, France and Germany have switched to a harder approach towards Iran. A confidential EU document leaked to Reuters and confirmed independently said the troika had told Iran it would be "unacceptable" for Tehran to keep its uranium enrichment programme, even if, as it claims, it is solely for civil purposes.
The commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard ground forces, Brigadier General Mohammad Ali Jafari, said yesterday: "Iran will retaliate against any stupid moves by Israel."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1399378,00.html
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lmao "the point of no return" <--- that means we(israel) can't bully them any more ;D
When DOES the US invade iran?
israel will attack Iran first.
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LOL. There's so much I could say about this, but I'll just drop a "Good for them"
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LOL. There's so much I could say about this, but I'll just drop a "Good for them"
Good for who?
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Sounds familiar.
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Bush better send them some flowers and a Hallmark card.
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lol @ israeli intelligence, i didnt know that existed, i thought they just listened to whatever the CIA told them
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lol @ israeli intelligence, i didnt know that existed, i thought they just listened to whatever the CIA told them
read up about mossad fool
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i thought iran already had nukes.. now im confused.. i should really keep out of tot ;D
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Irans been jonesing for a nuke for a long time.
My whole response to this englewood, is so what?
What is the point here. Are you advocating military response in this situation? Doesnt it seem rather hypocritical, you dunce,
for three nuclear powers to tell Iran it cant have any? Considering that Israel is sitting on 100-200 nuclear warheads in the same region as Iran? (And as bad as Irans sins have been, they HAVENT been occupying an entire ethnic population for the last 60 years.
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Irans been jonesing for a nuke for a long time.
My whole response to this englewood, is so what?
What is the point here. Are you advocating military response in this situation? Doesnt it seem rather hypocritical, you dunce,
for three nuclear powers to tell Iran it cant have any? Considering that Israel is sitting on 100-200 nuclear warheads in the same region as Iran? (And as bad as Irans sins have been, they HAVENT been occupying an entire ethnic population for the last 60 years.
LOL at you comparing Israel having Nukes with Iran having nukes.
Israel having nukes is not a threat to our security. Iran having nukes is a threat to our security.
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^I'd rather have a country that hasnt started a war recently having nukes than a country that has started 2 wars during the past 4 years (and is about to start a 3rd one) having nukes.
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^I'd rather have a country that hasnt started a war recently having nukes than a country that has started 2 wars during the past 4 years (and is about to start a 3rd one) having nukes.
Right. Because the US is threat to stable democracies.
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Irans been jonesing for a nuke for a long time.
My whole response to this englewood, is so what?
What is the point here. Are you advocating military response in this situation? Doesnt it seem rather hypocritical, you dunce,
for three nuclear powers to tell Iran it cant have any? Considering that Israel is sitting on 100-200 nuclear warheads in the same region as Iran? (And as bad as Irans sins have been, they HAVENT been occupying an entire ethnic population for the last 60 years.
LOL at you comparing Israel having Nukes with Iran having nukes.
Israel having nukes is not a threat to our security. Iran having nukes is a threat to our security.
Bigotted republicans that start and support foolish wars with embarassing consquences are a threat to american security.
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Bigotted republicans that start and support foolish wars with embarassing consquences are a threat to american security.
Sorry, I don't know what that has to do with Iran having nukes in 12 months.
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Bigotted republicans that start and support foolish wars with embarassing consquences are a threat to american security.
Sorry, I don't know what that has to do with Iran having nukes in 12 months.
You suggested we should be concerned with Iran because they are a threat to american security. If you are really concerned about American security you would be more concerned with your bigotted support of the Iraqi war and an incompetent administration. But you are not concerned with those things, your concerned with supporting the party line. Thats probably why my statement confused you.
If we should be concerned with Iran having nukes because they are a threat to american security, which I agree we should. Then we should also be concerned with the incompetent manner in which the Bush Administration has managed the war on terror thus far, as well as their flawed ideology on how to approach the so-called war on terror. Additionaly, you should be concerned with your own bigotted support of a misguided ideology, as it to is a threat to american security and prosperity.
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^I'd rather have a country that hasnt started a war recently having nukes than a country that has started 2 wars during the past 4 years (and is about to start a 3rd one) having nukes.
Right. Because the US is threat to stable democracies.
Oh so now only countries who do something that is not regarded as good by the US are in danger.. ah that's good! Thank God there aren't any tremendous double standards involved.
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Oh so now only countries who do something that is not regarded as good by the US are in danger.. ah that's good! Thank God there aren't any tremendous double standards involved.
There is no sense having a serious discussion with people who don't recognize the difference between pluralistic democracies and tyrannical authoritarian regimes.
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Oh so now only countries who do something that is not regarded as good by the US are in danger.. ah that's good! Thank God there aren't any tremendous double standards involved.
There is no sense having a serious discussion with people who don't recognize the difference between pluralistic democracies and tyrannical authoritarian regimes.
What you are saying is that we shouldnt worry about the US having nukes because they only murder people in the middle east, which is no threat to us.
While Iran having nukes is bad, because they might murder people in the west.
All I can say to this is: WOW.
May I ask you, how was it bad that Nazis killed Jews, I mean, hell, we arent Jews right?
I said it before and I say it again: Only a retard would cry about Iran having nukes in 12 months when tyrant regimes like the US already have such a unfuckwitable force. Moreover, every non-retard should know that the US/Israel are just looking for excuses to fuck up Iran.
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Irans been jonesing for a nuke for a long time.
My whole response to this englewood, is so what?
What is the point here. Are you advocating military response in this situation? Doesnt it seem rather hypocritical, you dunce,
for three nuclear powers to tell Iran it cant have any? Considering that Israel is sitting on 100-200 nuclear warheads in the same region as Iran? (And as bad as Irans sins have been, they HAVENT been occupying an entire ethnic population for the last 60 years.
LOL at you comparing Israel having Nukes with Iran having nukes.
Israel having nukes is not a threat to our security. Iran having nukes is a threat to our security.
Yea, but Israel having nukes is a threat to other countries... unless of course you admit that the U.S. is selfish and doesn't give a shit about other people?
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Yea, but Israel having nukes is a threat to other countries... unless of course you admit that the U.S. is selfish and doesn't give a shit about other people?
Iran with the bomb is an enormous bad turn for mankind. Period. This isn't one of those issues that any dime-a-dozen liberal (ant, seven) can claim is shades of grey when it's starkly black and white.
The mullahs in Iran sit astride the world's largest oil producing area. That energy source is what drives the rest of the planet's economy right now. It's not an American issue, it's not an Israeli issue...it's a world issue. These are the same mullahs who gleefully export terrorism and support terrorists in their efforts.
Israel has HAD the bomb, by most credible accounts, for almost 30 years. This is the same Israel surrounded by countries pledged to their complete annihilation and from which rockets, bombs and suicide bombers visit Israel regularly. If the Israelis were 1% as bloodthirsty as some no-wits here paint them, the entire middle east would have gone up in a mushroom cloud ages ago. They've had the bomb and it ensures their existence. Iran doesn't require the bomb to ensure their existence. They want the bomb to balance out Israel's nuclear capability and to make them the pre-eminent force in the region.
THAT makes a conventional war in the Middle East a much larger possibility again. Iran is a repressive theocratic regime intolerant of anything or anyone that doesn't agree with fundamentalist Islam. Attention, lefties: like it or not that includes you.
The freedoms that we as individuals enjoy in the U.S. cannot be ascribed to international relations. In the U.S. if you don't like your neighbor, you rarely plot to obliterate his home, raze it to the ground, piss on the bodies and go right on with the neighborhood bake sales and PTA meetings. In international relations, we cannot afford to grant "equality" to regimes that are clearly NOT equal in human rights, due process, civil liberties etc...
The US and Iran are not equals at the table any more than Nazi Germany was the moral equal of England and France in 1938.
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Yea, but Israel having nukes is a threat to other countries... unless of course you admit that the U.S. is selfish and doesn't give a shit about other people?
Iran with the bomb is an enormous bad turn for mankind. Period. This isn't one of those issues that any dime-a-dozen liberal (ant, seven) can claim is shades of grey when it's starkly black and white.
The mullahs in Iran sit astride the world's largest oil producing area. That energy source is what drives the rest of the planet's economy right now. It's not an American issue, it's not an Israeli issue...it's a world issue. These are the same mullahs who gleefully export terrorism and support terrorists in their efforts.
Israel has HAD the bomb, by most credible accounts, for almost 30 years. This is the same Israel surrounded by countries pledged to their complete annihilation and from which rockets, bombs and suicide bombers visit Israel regularly. If the Israelis were 1% as bloodthirsty as some no-wits here paint them, the entire middle east would have gone up in a mushroom cloud ages ago. They've had the bomb and it ensures their existence. Iran doesn't require the bomb to ensure their existence. They want the bomb to balance out Israel's nuclear capability and to make them the pre-eminent force in the region.
THAT makes a conventional war in the Middle East a much larger possibility again. Iran is a repressive theocratic regime intolerant of anything or anyone that doesn't agree with fundamentalist Islam. Attention, lefties: like it or not that includes you.
The freedoms that we as individuals enjoy in the U.S. cannot be ascribed to international relations. In the U.S. if you don't like your neighbor, you rarely plot to obliterate his home, raze it to the ground, piss on the bodies and go right on with the neighborhood bake sales and PTA meetings. In international relations, we cannot afford to grant "equality" to regimes that are clearly NOT equal in human rights, due process, civil liberties etc...
The US and Iran are not equals at the table any more than Nazi Germany was the moral equal of England and France in 1938.
don't put us on the same line the french were pussy collaborators
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Yea, but Israel having nukes is a threat to other countries... unless of course you admit that the U.S. is selfish and doesn't give a shit about other people?
Iran with the bomb is an enormous bad turn for mankind. Period. This isn't one of those issues that any dime-a-dozen liberal (ant, seven) can claim is shades of grey when it's starkly black and white.
The mullahs in Iran sit astride the world's largest oil producing area. That energy source is what drives the rest of the planet's economy right now. It's not an American issue, it's not an Israeli issue...it's a world issue. These are the same mullahs who gleefully export terrorism and support terrorists in their efforts.
Israel has HAD the bomb, by most credible accounts, for almost 30 years. This is the same Israel surrounded by countries pledged to their complete annihilation and from which rockets, bombs and suicide bombers visit Israel regularly. If the Israelis were 1% as bloodthirsty as some no-wits here paint them, the entire middle east would have gone up in a mushroom cloud ages ago. They've had the bomb and it ensures their existence. Iran doesn't require the bomb to ensure their existence. They want the bomb to balance out Israel's nuclear capability and to make them the pre-eminent force in the region.
THAT makes a conventional war in the Middle East a much larger possibility again. Iran is a repressive theocratic regime intolerant of anything or anyone that doesn't agree with fundamentalist Islam. Attention, lefties: like it or not that includes you.
The freedoms that we as individuals enjoy in the U.S. cannot be ascribed to international relations. In the U.S. if you don't like your neighbor, you rarely plot to obliterate his home, raze it to the ground, piss on the bodies and go right on with the neighborhood bake sales and PTA meetings. In international relations, we cannot afford to grant "equality" to regimes that are clearly NOT equal in human rights, due process, civil liberties etc...
The US and Iran are not equals at the table any more than Nazi Germany was the moral equal of England and France in 1938.
Alright, nukes are not a good thing, but the way I see it is.... have ALL the countries in the Middle East get rid of 'em then... including Israel... then we won't have to worry about any of them using 'em... that's if any country should have to get rid of its program, then all countries should.... or we could have all countries hold on to 'em... the latter doesn't sound like a good choice though...
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Israel has HAD the bomb, by most credible accounts, for almost 30 years. This is the same Israel surrounded by countries pledged to their complete annihilation and from which rockets, bombs and suicide bombers visit Israel regularly. If the Israelis were 1% as bloodthirsty as some no-wits here paint them, the entire middle east would have gone up in a mushroom cloud ages ago. They've had the bomb and it ensures their existence.
we cannot afford to grant "equality" to regimes that are clearly NOT equal in human rights, due process, civil liberties etc...
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we cannot afford to grant "equality" to regimes that are clearly NOT equal in human rights, due process, civil liberties etc...
Wanna look at some UN Resolutions?
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Wanna look at some UN Resolutions?
The unbinding resolutions passed by the same countries who have been trying to destroy Israel for half a century?
Is that the UN where Libya chaired the human rights committee?
Same one that ordered its troops to stand aside and watch while the Hutu committed genocide against the Tutsi?
The same UN whose troops assisted Hizbollah terrorists in placing Katyusha rockets aimed at Israel along the Lebanese border?
Now, let's have the resolutions against the peaceful states of China, North Korea, Sudan, Congo etc... Not a lot, huh? Maybe because there aren't so many countries whose despots use anti-Semitism as a social glue, and doing all they can diplomatically, militarily and economically to destroy Israel.
Anyways, back to the nuke subject. Create another topic if you wanna talk about resolutions.
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The same UN whose resolutions the U.S. based its attack on Iraq on after finding realizing that the people would catch on to the WMD myth.... so why the double standard? Why ignore the UN resolutions for Israel and not Iraq?
The same UN that the U.S. helped create!
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Not to get off topic though.... my stance is that either both countries have 'em, or neither... that's fair, and I don't see how you can say it's not without pulling off a double standard... have the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST get rid of its nukes...
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Not to get off topic though.... my stance is that either both countries have 'em, or neither... that's fair, and I don't see how you can say it's not without pulling off a double standard... have the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST get rid of its nukes...
Why is it fair to hold two countires to the same standards when it's clear they aren't equal? I'll agree that the entire middle east would be better off w/o nuclear weapons, but that's not going to happen.
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Your point has no leg to stand on englewood
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Your point has no leg to stand on englewood
If you're not going to contribute to the discussion, why post?
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Your point has no leg to stand on englewood
If you're not going to contribute to the discussion, why post?
to let u know u aint sayin shit.....lol @ "discussion"
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Not to get off topic though.... my stance is that either both countries have 'em, or neither... that's fair, and I don't see how you can say it's not without pulling off a double standard... have the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST get rid of its nukes...
Why is it fair to hold two countires to the same standards when it's clear they aren't equal? I'll agree that the entire middle east would be better off w/o nuclear weapons, but that's not going to happen.
Our whole country is supposedly based on the foundation of equality, but when it comes to diplomatic/economic interests, then all of a sudden those values are thrown out the window? Why is Iran not equal to Israel? Israel is in violation of more UN resolutions. Israel is pushing a group of people into genocidal consensus. Just because Iran isn't a democratic puppet state, they're not "equal"? Fuck that. Being Muslim doesn't place Iranians under Israelis.
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Why is it fair to hold two countires to the same standards
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S WRONG WITH U.S. FOREIGN POLICY....DOUBLE STANDARDS
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Why is it fair to hold two countires to the same standards
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S WRONG WITH U.S. FOREIGN POLICY....DOUBLE STANDARDS
^I'd rather have a country that hasnt started a war recently having nukes than a country that has started 2 wars during the past 4 years (and is about to start a 3rd one) having nukes.
Right. Because the US is threat to stable democracies.
Oh so now only countries who do something that is not regarded as good by the US are in danger.. ah that's good! Thank God there aren't any tremendous double standards involved.
Damn, I should've kept my old name "Harbinger". Oh well. The new one fits too, whatever.
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LMAO. You consider yourself a mastermind just because your statement matches mine? If I'm being used to measure what is correct and what is wrong, then that makes me the real mastermind 8)
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By the way, the name "mastermind" doesn't seem fitting when you're getting VERBALLY MURDERED left & right in TOT....
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LMAO. You consider yourself a mastermind just because your statement matches mine? If I'm being used to measure what is correct and what is wrong, then that makes me the real mastermind 8)
Well my previous name was Harbinger and I said it way before you did.. :)
You seem to belong to the smarter ones in ToT, but then again I guess we both agree that isnt saying much.
By the way, the name "mastermind" doesn't seem fitting when you're getting VERBALLY MURDERED left & right in TOT....
If I was getting murdered verbally left and right here, it wouldnt really fit, yes. But that isnt the case, no matter how much yall haters wished it.
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You need to get off that "Me Against The World" shit... it's just the name of an album... there's no conspiracy against 7even, don't let paranoia blind you...
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=66584.0
Take your sonning like a man, or "boy" I should say.
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LMAO. You consider yourself a mastermind just because your statement matches mine? If I'm being used to measure what is correct and what is wrong, then that makes me the real mastermind 8)
Well my previous name was Harbinger and I said it way before you did.. :)
You seem to belong to the smarter ones in ToT, but then again I guess we both agree that isnt saying much.
Yeah, but you used my quote to show "Look, I was right... even JAMAL said it, so now I'm a mastermind."
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LMAO. You consider yourself a mastermind just because your statement matches mine? If I'm being used to measure what is correct and what is wrong, then that makes me the real mastermind 8)
Well my previous name was Harbinger and I said it way before you did.. :)
You seem to belong to the smarter ones in ToT, but then again I guess we both agree that isnt saying much.
Yeah, but you used my quote to show "Look, I was right... even JAMAL said it, so now I'm a mastermind."
LOOL.. no, that's just what your narcistic personality disorder ass assumes.
You need to get off that "Me Against The World" shit... it's just the name of an album... there's no conspiracy against 7even, don't let paranoia blind you...
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=66584.0
Take your sonning like a man, or "boy" I should say.
Right now, it is pretty much 7even vs. rest of WCC. Not vs. the world, but hey. 8)
I won't bother to comment on how I can't have been sonned cause there was nothing to son about just different opinions, and I always won't bother to dive through several pages in the ToT section to show you the 7even sonnings of Jamal, cause Im sure you remember each one of them as "The Day I found my master" - Part 1/2/3/4/5 etc. :)
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Our whole country is supposedly based on the foundation of equality, but when it comes to diplomatic/economic interests, then all of a sudden those values are thrown out the window? Why is Iran not equal to Israel? Israel is in violation of more UN resolutions. Israel is pushing a group of people into genocidal consensus. Just because Iran isn't a democratic puppet state, they're not "equal"? Fuck that. Being Muslim doesn't place Iranians under Israelis.
I said it before in this topic and I'll say it again.
There's no sense having a serious discussion with people who don't recognize the difference between pluralistic democracies and tyrannical authoritarian regimes.
Claiming that a nuclear Israel is no less a threat to the world than a nuclear Iran is about as logical as saying an armed police officer presents the same threat to society as an armed criminal.
Israel = Stable, democratic, tolerant, free society, synagogues, churches, mosques, etc., made up of Jews, Christians, Muslims. Productive, lots of Noble Prize winners, creates new technology regularly.
Iran = Islamic fascist dictatorship, not free, not tolerant, no Jews tolerated, only Islam is allowed, eyes gouged out by the state, children executed, no science created
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Our whole country is supposedly based on the foundation of equality, but when it comes to diplomatic/economic interests, then all of a sudden those values are thrown out the window? Why is Iran not equal to Israel? Israel is in violation of more UN resolutions. Israel is pushing a group of people into genocidal consensus. Just because Iran isn't a democratic puppet state, they're not "equal"? Fuck that. Being Muslim doesn't place Iranians under Israelis.
I said it before in this topic and I'll say it again.
There's no sense having a serious discussion with people who don't recognize the difference between pluralistic democracies and tyrannical authoritarian regimes.
Claiming that a nuclear Israel is no less a threat to the world than a nuclear Iran is about as logical as saying an armed police officer presents the same threat to society as an armed criminal.
Israel = Stable, democratic, tolerant, free society, synagogues, churches, mosques, etc., made up of Jews, Christians, Muslims. Productive, lots of Noble Prize winners, creates new technology regularly.
Iran = Islamic fascist dictatorship, not free, not tolerant, no Jews tolerated, only Islam is allowed, eyes gouged out by the state, children executed, no science created
would iran feal the need to have nukes if israel didn't have them?
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^ just a post a picture.. he doesnt read what you write anyway..
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would iran feal the need to have nukes if israel didn't have them?
Iran is simply trying to achieve parity with Israel? Why? It's not Israel's government that makes it the official line to eradication Persians. What works is what HAS been working for the past 30 years. Iran does not feel threatened by Israel. Claims on the contrary being obfuscation of their desire to possess nuclear weapons. It's an excuse, not a reason.
So, we have a conventionally stable area. There have been no conventional wars between nation-states for over 30 years and this was with Israel having the only nuclear arsenal. This is certainly proof that if Israel is NOT the aggressor in that they've held the military trump card all this time and never leveraged that into concessions or threats. Now Iran's possession of a similar aresenal addresses what inequity?
There was a balance. It's clear Iran does not desire a balance, but something else. Take a look at their rhetoric, and extrapolate how any result from that can be benign.
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israel has always been aggressive, ever since before independence it has been on the offense its the other states in the middle east went to the defence of their neighbouring palestinians but couldn't compete with the force of the israel and its western backers. even with this superiority in the region israel developed nukes with France's aid cementing itself as the most powerful state in the region, a state that refuses to talk to its neighbours over the palestinian issue, their right wing government supports unilateral action and only acts in their own interests disregarding almost every organisation or country that has real ethical concerns over what they do.
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israel has always been aggressive, ever since before independence it has been on the offense its the other states in the middle east went to the defence of their neighbouring palestinians but couldn't compete with the force of the israel and its western backers. even with this superiority in the region israel developed nukes with France's aid cementing itself as the most powerful state in the region, a state that refuses to talk to its neighbours over the palestinian issue, their right wing government supports unilateral action and only acts in their own interests disregarding almost every organisation or country that has real ethical concerns over what they do.
:stupid:
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Our whole country is supposedly based on the foundation of equality, but when it comes to diplomatic/economic interests, then all of a sudden those values are thrown out the window? Why is Iran not equal to Israel? Israel is in violation of more UN resolutions. Israel is pushing a group of people into genocidal consensus. Just because Iran isn't a democratic puppet state, they're not "equal"? Fuck that. Being Muslim doesn't place Iranians under Israelis.
I said it before in this topic and I'll say it again.
There's no sense having a serious discussion with people who don't recognize the difference between pluralistic democracies and tyrannical authoritarian regimes.
Claiming that a nuclear Israel is no less a threat to the world than a nuclear Iran is about as logical as saying an armed police officer presents the same threat to society as an armed criminal.
Israel = Stable, democratic, tolerant, free society, synagogues, churches, mosques, etc., made up of Jews, Christians, Muslims. Productive, lots of Noble Prize winners, creates new technology regularly.
Iran = Islamic fascist dictatorship, not free, not tolerant, no Jews tolerated, only Islam is allowed, eyes gouged out by the state, children executed, no science created
1. If you want to talk about children being executed, Israel is not the best example to show contrast.
2. What does "science, technology, Noble Prize winners, etc" have to do with a country being allowed to have nukes? As a matter of fact, what does any of that have anything to do with it. What if those countries say "hey, we feel that democracies with nukes are a threat." You can't tell a country what they can or can't do, if you do it yourself,,, just because their government isn't benefitting you as far as diplomacy or economics go.
3. So the only way a country can have nukes is if it's: not Islamic & democratic... and if it is Islamic, it has to be a secular puppet state.... and if it's not democratic, and is an authoritarian regime, then it better benefit us financially..... I love the morals and fairness in this.
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would iran feal the need to have nukes if israel didn't have them?
Iran is simply trying to achieve parity with Israel? Why? It's not Israel's government that makes it the official line to eradication Persians. What works is what HAS been working for the past 30 years. Iran does not feel threatened by Israel. Claims on the contrary being obfuscation of their desire to possess nuclear weapons. It's an excuse, not a reason.
So, we have a conventionally stable area. There have been no conventional wars between nation-states for over 30 years and this was with Israel having the only nuclear arsenal. This is certainly proof that if Israel is NOT the aggressor in that they've held the military trump card all this time and never leveraged that into concessions or threats. Now Iran's possession of a similar aresenal addresses what inequity?
There was a balance. It's clear Iran does not desire a balance, but something else. Take a look at their rhetoric, and extrapolate how any result from that can be benign.
Do u really believe this shit?
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You need to get off that "Me Against The World" shit... it's just the name of an album... there's no conspiracy against 7even, don't let paranoia blind you...
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=66584.0
Take your sonning like a man, or "boy" I should say.
dude anyone that talks all day about "sonning" people on dubcc is not intelligent. It's getting old reading threads where you announce the fact that you 'sonned' someone. I agree with you on occasion, but get off the ego trip. Arrogance doesn't reflect intelligence, it reflects the opposite. Compare the way you act to the way real intelligent people behave. You should notice a difference.
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You need to get off that "Me Against The World" shit... it's just the name of an album... there's no conspiracy against 7even, don't let paranoia blind you...
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=66584.0
Take your sonning like a man, or "boy" I should say.
dude anyone that talks all day about "sonning" people on dubcc is not intelligent. It's getting old reading threads where you announce the fact that you 'sonned' someone. I agree with you on occasion, but get off the ego trip. Arrogance doesn't reflect intelligence, it reflects the opposite. Compare the way you act to the way real intelligent people behave. You should notice a difference.
Watch it, or you might get sonned. 8) LOLLL
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You need to get off that "Me Against The World" shit... it's just the name of an album... there's no conspiracy against 7even, don't let paranoia blind you...
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=66584.0
Take your sonning like a man, or "boy" I should say.
dude anyone that talks all day about "sonning" people on dubcc is not intelligent. It's getting old reading threads where you announce the fact that you 'sonned' someone. I agree with you on occasion, but get off the ego trip. Arrogance doesn't reflect intelligence, it reflects the opposite. Compare the way you act to the way real intelligent people behave. You should notice a difference.
Watch it, or you might get sonned. 8) LOLLL
Sorry man just speakin the truth.
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Simple Question:
Which country is more of a threat to the world:
A country that has started 2 wars during the last 4 years ... with at least one of them being officially unjustified, controversial, unsuccessful.. add what you want.
Or
A country that hasnt started anything for that matter recently..
Do you honestly believe that you are the "better" country, because you invented American Football and the quarter pounder and are therefore allowed to attack other countries randomly and still remain the "good" one while peaceful countries arent even allowed to care about some defense?
The whole logic is complete nuts and based on double standards and racism (don't even try to come up with muslim isnt a race or middle eastern isnt a race cause we all know what's up.). I wonder how ANYONE with a decent brain can even be 'propagandanized' by something like that, especially after the war in Iraq and the lack of WMD there. Unbelieveable.
Iran having nukes is an obvious excuse to attack them, same goes for WMD in Iraq and we all saw that happened.
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Simple Question:
Which country is more of a threat to the world:
A country that has started 2 wars during the last 4 years ... with at least one of them being officially unjustified, controversial, unsuccessful.. add what you want.
Or
A country that hasnt started anything for that matter recently..
Once again: Please show me that the United States is a threat to stable democracies. They aren't. Do you know anything about Iran's government?
Do you honestly believe that you are the "better" country, because you invented American Football and the quarter pounder and are therefore allowed to attack other countries randomly and still remain the "good" one while peaceful countries arent even allowed to care about some defense?
I honestly believe America is better than Iran because they don't murder and suppress their own people. Do you know anything about Iran's government? You do realize that they've made it their official line to push Israel into the ocean don't you? You do realize that their parliament starts ever session with "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" Don't you? You do realize that they put people to death for speaking badly about a religion. You do realize that in Iran adultery is punishable by death. You do realize that they recently sentenced a mentally disabled girl to death for prostitution.
There is no doubt about it. America is a better country than Iran. You REALLY can't argue about it. If you know anything about what Iran's government does to its people, its past actions, you really wouldn’t be writing this garbage. You’re speaking from ignorance.
The whole logic is complete nuts and based on double standards and racism (don't even try to come up with muslim isnt a race or middle eastern isnt a race cause we all know what's up.). I wonder how ANYONE with a decent brain can even be 'propagandanized' by something like that, especially after the war in Iraq and the lack of WMD there. Unbelieveable.
Iran having nukes is an obvious excuse to attack them, same goes for WMD in Iraq and we all saw that happened.
Now you can't win an argument, so you resort to calling me racist? Islam is a religion, not a race of people. I'm the racist, who's the one grouping every person in the middle east together as one race?
You've been verbally abused by me and damn near everybody else on this board time and time again, but your ignorance and ego really won't let you see it. I think that mop on your head is making it hard for you to think. Visit a barber.
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I agree with Engel in that Iran can't be compared to the U.S. as far as being a "better" country (Assuming you're talking about liberties and freedom when saying "better"). However, Engel, you mentioned that the U.S. isn't a threat to stable democracies. Why is it that sometimes the U.S. considers non-democratic nations as "okay" and other times it doesn't? No, it has nothing to do with human rights violations because those other nations that we support(ed) are/were just as bad (Several Latin American nations + several nations in the Middle East). It has to do with economics. If a country benefits us financially, then in the U.S. government's eyes it's okay if that government oppresses its people. If that country nationalizes anything that would otherwise bring us great profits, then they all of a sudden become an evil dictatorship. Nicaragua, Guatemala, and if you want some Islamic countries... Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc. Why don't we speak out against these governments and their actions? Why Iran? Why Iraq? Think about it. In Saudi Arabia the same crimes are punished in the same way as in Iran. You steal, they cut your hands off. A woman sleeps with a man other than her husband, she's put to death. The list goes on and on. Let's be honest, our government doesn't give a shit. I'm Afghan, my parents grew up in Afghanistan and were there during part of the Soviet War. They were there when the Mujahideen were fighting the Soviets, with American support (guns, money, etc). You know what those guys did? Raid schools and burn teachers & students with acid. Why didn't our government say or do anything? Why did our government support the Taliban while they were committing all their crimes against humanity, so to speak? If you don't know, ask, and I'll tell you why. You see.... it has less to do with the fact that we care about human rights and more to do with $$$.
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Simple Question:
Which country is more of a threat to the world:
A country that has started 2 wars during the last 4 years ... with at least one of them being officially unjustified, controversial, unsuccessful.. add what you want.
Or
A country that hasnt started anything for that matter recently..
Once again: Please show me that the United States is a threat to stable democracies. They aren't. Do you know anything about Iran's government?
Once again: Show me how it is a criteria if a country is a stable democracy or not.. the US is a threat to certain countries without them attacking any other country and shit, which is already bad enough - stable democracy or not. By your retarded point of view democracies have the right to fuck up undemocratic countries. Wow.
Do you honestly believe that you are the "better" country, because you invented American Football and the quarter pounder and are therefore allowed to attack other countries randomly and still remain the "good" one while peaceful countries arent even allowed to care about some defense?
I honestly believe America is better than Iran because they don't murder and suppress their own people. Do you know anything about Iran's government? You do realize that they've made it their official line to push Israel into the ocean don't you? You do realize that their parliament starts ever session with "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" Don't you? You do realize that they put people to death for speaking badly about a religion. You do realize that in Iran adultery is punishable by death. You do realize that they recently sentenced a mentally disabled girl to death for prostitution.
There is no doubt about it. America is a better country than Iran. You REALLY can't argue about it. If you know anything about what Iran's government does to its people, its past actions, you really wouldn’t be writing this garbage. You’re speaking from ignorance.
Last time I checked the US still had the death penalty. Last time I checked Bush said retarded things on the regular basis. Last time I checked Saudi-Arabia was bad.. just like Iran is. However, the US doesnt give a shit. Wonder why that is. Im not an expert about Iran but I know what's up basically and I know god damn well that it doesn't justify war - hell it's not even the reason for the war, as you claim the reason is nukes. Soon as they don't find them they will change the reason however, like they did it a 100 times with Iraq lol. God damn how must soldiers feel when the reason for the war is changed like a billion times lol, but I digress. I you know anything about your own government you'd know it fucked up, but since you chose to bow down to blind patriotism and everything your country does, you're speaking from ignorance.
The whole logic is complete nuts and based on double standards and racism (don't even try to come up with muslim isnt a race or middle eastern isnt a race cause we all know what's up.). I wonder how ANYONE with a decent brain can even be 'propagandanized' by something like that, especially after the war in Iraq and the lack of WMD there. Unbelieveable.
Iran having nukes is an obvious excuse to attack them, same goes for WMD in Iraq and we all saw that happened.
Now you can't win an argument, so you resort to calling me racist? Islam is a religion, not a race of people. I'm the racist, who's the one grouping every person in the middle east together as one race?
You've been verbally abused by me and damn near everybody else on this board time and time again, but your ignorance and ego really won't let you see it. I think that mop on your head is making it hard for you to think. Visit a barber.
Learn how to read and don't come up with that race shit when I already clarified it in my post. I call it racist because that is a term nobody wants to be attributed to, while somehow anti-muslim/anti-arab/anti-iraqi or anti-"terrorist" as you like to say became acceptable. Good job lying, while I sonned your ass a lot recently. Good job part 2 making comments on my hairstyle you intolerant fuckwit, when you don't even have a pic of yours published on the internet. Shut up now.