West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: C-Swift on March 09, 2005, 01:45:27 PM
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Consistency
Originality
Experimentation
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Integrity
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Experimentation
Experimentation my ass. No one in hip-hop experiments anymore. Most of you people have no idea what the definition of experimental music is.
What doesn't make him suck? Trying to do something that he can't and stick to it. Xzibit tried the mainstream west coast gangster stuff, and he started to suck. Talib Kweli tried to make radio friendly music, and it started to suck.
Same with other genres of music. Nirvana tried to make a Pixies record, and ended up making the worst album of their career (Nevermind). Metallica were good. Then suddenly, they released something like the Black Album (shit album) and they were terrible.
If you're good at one thing, do one thing only. If you're good at more, then please do more. (Like Madlib, or in rock music, Radiohead).
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HONOR --they lost that REALLY
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Experimentation
Experimentation my ass. No one in hip-hop experiments anymore. Most of you people have no idea what the definition of experimental music is.
What doesn't make him suck? Trying to do something that he can't and stick to it. Xzibit tried the mainstream west coast gangster stuff, and he started to suck. Talib Kweli tried to make radio friendly music, and it started to suck.
Same with other genres of music. Nirvana tried to make a Pixies record, and ended up making the worst album of their career (Nevermind). Metallica were good. Then suddenly, they released something like the Black Album (shit album) and they were terrible.
If you're good at one thing, do one thing only. If you're good at more, then please do more. (Like Madlib, or in rock music, Radiohead).
you´re good at simplifying drastically...You cannot predict exactly how good you´re gonna be at doing something. The main point in making an experimental record actually is that you do not now how it´s gonna turn out to be. An experimental record that has been done by somebody who knew what he was doing or going to do very well is a fucking paradox
Also, i would like to know what is so bad about Nevermind. Just cause Cobain admitted the Pixies were a source of inspiration for "Smells Like Teen Spirit", it doesn´t mean they "tried to make a Pixies record" and neither does it actually sound like one. So tell me about why this is such a terribly bad record (and please don´t base your opinion on the cliché of the-more-polished-the-worse, i can understand why people prefer "Bleach" for that reason, but then stick to calling it personal taste)...peace
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Nirvana tried to make a Pixies record, and ended up making the worst album of their career (Nevermind). Metallica were good. Then suddenly, they released something like the Black Album (shit album) and they were terrible.
lol you gotta be the dumbest person ive ever met.
Your trying to tell me that Nirvanas worst album was nevermind, and metallicas worst album was the black album?
Those were their greatest albums.
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WHAT DOESN'T MAKE A SENTENCE SOUND ANTI-AWKWARD
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Experimentation
Experimentation my ass. No one in hip-hop experiments anymore. Most of you people have no idea what the definition of experimental music is.
What doesn't make him suck? Trying to do something that he can't and stick to it. Xzibit tried the mainstream west coast gangster stuff, and he started to suck. Talib Kweli tried to make radio friendly music, and it started to suck.
Same with other genres of music. Nirvana tried to make a Pixies record, and ended up making the worst album of their career (Nevermind). Metallica were good. Then suddenly, they released something like the Black Album (shit album) and they were terrible.
If you're good at one thing, do one thing only. If you're good at more, then please do more. (Like Madlib, or in rock music, Radiohead).
you´re good at simplifying drastically...You cannot predict exactly how good you´re gonna be at doing something. The main point in making an experimental record actually is that you do not now how it´s gonna turn out to be. An experimental record that has been done by somebody who knew what he was doing or going to do very well is a fucking paradox
Also, i would like to know what is so bad about Nevermind. Just cause Cobain admitted the Pixies were a source of inspiration for "Smells Like Teen Spirit", it doesn´t mean they "tried to make a Pixies record" and neither does it actually sound like one. So tell me about why this is such a terribly bad record (and please don´t base your opinion on the cliché of the-more-polished-the-worse, i can understand why people prefer "Bleach" for that reason, but then stick to calling it personal taste)...peace
Experimental music is something no one has done before and something you wouldn't know how it would sound like after it's been done - people claim Kid A by Radiohead is experimental, but it's basically an Aphex Twin and Autechre rip-off. Talib Kweli didn't experiment, did he? Or did Xzibit for suddenly making Gangster Rap? Karlheinz Stockhausen, Cabaret Voltaire, Faust, Sun Ra, Paul Lansky, DJ Shadow, My Bloody Valentine, Sonic Youth, they all did stuff NO ONE did before. Thus, making it experimental. There's a difference between experimental and unique/creative.
I heard my share of experimental music.
About Nirvana.
It is partially - if not, the main - reason the production that made the album so bad. It doesn't suck, but it's so powerless. Besides, it's pretty bland. In Utero is without a fucking doubt 10 times the record Nevermind is. Oh and another thing, the Pixies were a source of inspiration for the whole record. Clean power punk with catchy hooks, power chords, bass lines that follow the guitar, etc. It's all Pixies. Their early stuff was Black Flag, Melvins, Black Sabbath, Beatles and Minor Threat (well, on Incesticide) influenced. Later on, Nirvana devolepped into a rather unique band.
Nirvana tried to make a Pixies record, and ended up making the worst album of their career (Nevermind). Metallica were good. Then suddenly, they released something like the Black Album (shit album) and they were terrible.
lol you gotta be the dumbest person ive ever met.
Your trying to tell me that Nirvanas worst album was nevermind, and metallicas worst album was the black album?
Those were their greatest albums.
Yes, because Rolling Stone magazine and MTV tells you to. The Black Album is the first album by Metallica that sucked, and a lot followed. Of course, someone who has no ear for metal whatsoever knows it better than I do - eventhough 2/5 of my band consists of metal heads, oh and guess what? I'm in a punk and metal hybrid band - and I'm wrong for noticing that Metallica progressed up untill ....And Justice For All (their songs got more structured with every release, yet kept it very "street"), suddenly, they had this overproduced pop record - yes, pop - produced by the same guy that produced Aerosmith. For Christ's sake, a guy like that working with a thrash metal band? Give me a fucking break. They became the prototype of shit bands like Korn. The Black Album is the "classic" the mainstream media tells you to like.
Nevermind is produced like a fucking Blink-182 record. It's so fucking clean, it took all of the power from the songs. If you are going to make distorted rock, don't fucking clean the distortion. Bleach however, was a great album. It had the feedback, the lo-fi sound - which Nirvana needed - and the Melvins influence which made Seattle rock so great (Green River, Soundgarden, Bikini Kill, etc). In Utero's their best work, though - and any real Nirvana fan that got passed his/her "omfgz li3k k3rt c0bane waz my id0l" phase would tell you that In Utero is their best. Nothing on Nevermind could possibly compare to songs like Radio Friendly Unit Shifter, Heart Shaped Box or Scentless Apprentice.
And if I'm the first person to tell you this, everyone you know has a shit taste in rock music.
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witha reply that fucking long i think yo might be in relations to kmk. but i agree with rampant those albums where fucking sick. and to answer the question , they are in love withthe benifets of being a rapper not the art of spitting. look at fiddy, jay-z cah money, snoop dogg, etc. damn
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Consistency
Originality
Experimentation
I assume when you say "fall off" you mean skill wise. Because 50 Cent has the best selling album of the year right now, and his skills have fallen off.
Anyway..
What makes a rapper keep his skills is if he stays hungry. Eminem for example, he had a 2nd and 3rd album that was better than his first. Why is this? This is because after his first album he stayed on the road, he never had anytime to get comfortable, he stayed on the road, and kept struggling to earn more support. He had a lot of songs biult up, and then came home at the end of his tour and knocked out the rest of the album with about 7 Dr. Dre produced tracks. Then, after the success of that album, Eminem was a public figure, his name was getting hated on in the media, 9-11 happened, so he had alot of material for a 3rd album still left in his repertoire. Then the movie gave him inspiration for a couple more classic songs, "8 Mile Road" and "Lose Yourself". Now he's had time to relax and contemplate his success. His no longer hungry, his rhymes are weak now, and he lacks subject matter that relates to his fans.
2pac is another rapper who had a 2nd and 3rd, and even a 4th and 5th album that were better than his first. Same reason, he never sat back, relaxed, and got comfortable, he stayed on the grind, and stayed hungry. He said he used to get a kick out of the fact that in the daytime he was making movies with Janet Jackson and at nightime he was partying with the same homies from the hood that he'd always partied with, at the same spot, he never left his people, or forgot about his people, he stayed the same. Infact, he even spent about a year in prison while his album was #1, and that experience made it even easier for him to relate to his people and come up with fresh material for another album.
So that's how rappers stay on top. They stay hungry. They don't get comfortable.
..... Also, experimentation can work as well, look at groups like Outkast, their sound is still fresh even after all these years.
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..... Also, experimentation can work as well, look at groups like Outkast, their sound is still fresh even after all these years.
Uhm, there is nothing experimental about Outkast.
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Staying broke
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Uhm, there is nothing experimental about Outkast.
Then how do you explain the fact that they have a new sound and new subject matter with every album?
Southernplayisticadallacmusic- Their first album they were a couple of young kids, bragging about being playa's and thuggin, they had tracks like "Players Ball" and "Call of Da Wild", granted, it was still very intelligence, but it was more high energy and rebellious then anything. Organized Noise produced tracks that sounded a little West Coast.
Atliens- The next album was space aged. Andre 3000 stared experimenting with his image and his persona, he was rockin Islamic turbans, women in "aTliens" even had viels on, and in a couple of their video's they were traveling through Pyramids. This time organized noise slowed the beats down, and they became took on a persona of hip-hop philosophers.
Aquemini- This album was more funk, Andre started dressing crazy, even dressin drag, the sound changed more then the message did, but they still showed progression, it earned 5 mics
Stankonia- Outkast really took off as producers on this album. They had their own sound, they no longer needed Organized Noise. Andre was going through a divorce, and he was questioning everything about himself and about his life, Big Boi went back to being a gansta. And they even experienced with Techno sounds (Bombs Over Bagdad was a huge success) and voice changes on the album.
Speaker Box/Love Below- Andre totally went all the way out to left field, started thinking he was Jimmy Hendrix or Lenny Kravitz or something, left hip-hop all together and made a rock record, and Big Boi had an all new sound as well, they didn't even come together much for this one, so they had to do two seperate cd's.
....... How in the world is that not classified as experimenting? State your case!
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Uhm, there is nothing experimental about Outkast.
Then how do you explain the fact that they have a new sound and new subject matter with every album?
Southernplayisticadallacmusic- Their first album they were a couple of young kids, bragging about being playa's and thuggin, they had tracks like "Players Ball" and "Call of Da Wild", granted, it was still very intelligence, but it was more high energy and rebellious then anything. Organized Noise produced tracks that sounded a little West Coast.
Atliens- The next album was space aged. Andre 3000 stared experimenting with his image and his persona, he was rockin Islamic turbans, women in "aTliens" even had viels on, and in a couple of their video's they were traveling through Pyramids. This time organized noise slowed the beats down, and they became took on a persona of hip-hop philosophers.
Aquemini- This album was more funk, Andre started dressing crazy, even dressin drag, the sound changed more then the message did, but they still showed progression, it earned 5 mics
Stankonia- Outkast really took off as producers on this album. They had their own sound, they no longer needed Organized Noise. Andre was going through a divorce, and he was questioning everything about himself and about his life, Big Boi went back to being a gansta. And they even experienced with Techno sounds (Bombs Over Bagdad was a huge success) and voice changes on the album.
Speaker Box/Love Below- Andre totally went all the way out to left field, started thinking he was Jimmy Hendrix or Lenny Kravitz or something, left hip-hop all together and made a rock record, and Big Boi had an all new sound as well, they didn't even come together much for this one, so they had to do two seperate cd's.
....... How in the world is that not classified as experimenting? State your case!
I agree....If anyone in hip-hop has experimented, it is Outkast. And look how long they have been around and STILL selling albums!
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staying true to who you are.
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Not becomming Snoop....
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Keep it original and loyal fans too coz niggaz keep it original and fans stop buying their music anyway...........
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Uhm, there is nothing experimental about Outkast.
Then how do you explain the fact that they have a new sound and new subject matter with every album?
They change their style. Jesus Christ. You people have no idea what experimental music is. Outkast, are not experimental.
Go listen to Paul Lansky's Mild Und Leise. Or My Bloody Valentine's To Here Knows When. Or Astro Black by Sun Ra. That's experimental music. Not Outkast, they simply change their style. All Alkaholiks albums have a different sound, but there is no way in hell they are experimental.
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Keep it original and loyal fans too coz niggaz keep it original and fans stop buying their music anyway...........
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Uhm, there is nothing experimental about Outkast.
Then how do you explain the fact that they have a new sound and new subject matter with every album?
They change their style. Jesus Christ. You people have no idea what experimental music is. Outkast, are not experimental.
Go listen to Paul Lansky's Mild Und Leise. Or My Bloody Valentine's To Here Knows When. Or Astro Black by Sun Ra. That's experimental music. Not Outkast, they simply change their style. All Alkaholiks albums have a different sound, but there is no way in hell they are experimental.
This topic was about rappers (hip-hop music). Name a few hip-hop artists/groups that have been more experimental from album to album then Outkast?
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and any real Nirvana fan that got passed his/her "omfgz li3k k3rt c0bane waz my id0l" phase would tell you that In Utero is their best
And if I'm the first person to tell you this, everyone you know has a shit taste in rock music.
get off that high horse of yours, you know some stuff about music, but this behavior is kinda annoying
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Uhm, there is nothing experimental about Outkast.
Then how do you explain the fact that they have a new sound and new subject matter with every album?
They change their style. Jesus Christ. You people have no idea what experimental music is. Outkast, are not experimental.
Go listen to Paul Lansky's Mild Und Leise. Or My Bloody Valentine's To Here Knows When. Or Astro Black by Sun Ra. That's experimental music. Not Outkast, they simply change their style. All Alkaholiks albums have a different sound, but there is no way in hell they are experimental.
This topic was about rappers (hip-hop music). Name a few hip-hop artists/groups that have been more experimental from album to album then Outkast?
DJ Shadow (used completely new sampling techniques), Grandwizard Theodore (invented the scratch), DJ Kool Herc (invented the form of music in which your recycle old music).
The thing that set hip-hop apart from other genres was generally the production style (take old music, chop it up, manipulate it, mix it, done), so the real experimentation was in the beats. And that's what they did.
Outkast didn't experiment. They aren't experimental, at all. They just evolved as artists. Big fucking deal.
and any real Nirvana fan that got passed his/her "omfgz li3k k3rt c0bane waz my id0l" phase would tell you that In Utero is their best
And if I'm the first person to tell you this, everyone you know has a shit taste in rock music.
get off that high horse of yours
Never.
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and any real Nirvana fan that got passed his/her "omfgz li3k k3rt c0bane waz my id0l" phase would tell you that In Utero is their best
And if I'm the first person to tell you this, everyone you know has a shit taste in rock music.
get off that high horse of yours
Never.
ok...so well, NEVERMIND IS BETTER THAN BLEACH, BEYATCH. I agree In Utero was their best though
btw, was the group in my sig experimental by your definition?
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consistency
not selling out
originality
are definate. 8) 8) 8)
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btw, was the group in my sig experimental by your definition?
I think they're on the border line. They were extremely creative, though. And they didn't do much some avant garde jazz artists did before.
I remember them making a secret message, though, on purpose. Which I think no one has ever done before.
But, I never cared much for Pink Floyd - great band, nonetheless, and I listen to them sometimes - so I don't know. If there's anything experimental they've done, I've yet to hear it.
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DJ Shadow (used completely new sampling techniques), Grandwizard Theodore (invented the scratch), DJ Kool Herc (invented the form of music in which your recycle old music).
The thing that set hip-hop apart from other genres was generally the production style (take old music, chop it up, manipulate it, mix it, done), so the real experimentation was in the beats. And that's what they did.
That's still not what this thread was about. The thread was about rappers who have longevity, and if experimentation helped them to remain relevant. You listed DJ's, not rappers, and it wasn't about just coming up with one sound, the thread was about having longevity in the game and experimenting from one sound, style, or image, to another one. Your way off topic, start a rock thread to talk about all this, so I will know not to enter the thread, except to say that Rock is nothing compared to hip-hop, and that hip-hop outsells rock 2 to 1, and that the only Rock music that is decent now, steals their concepts from hip-hop.
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experimentation is the exact reason i havent listened to outkast in 7-8 years.
i think theres only two rappers of a high caliber who have never fallen off. one of them is retired(masta ace), and the other one is kool g rap, who still outshines young cats like saigon, and could probably spit that way for 20 more years. the real goat 8)
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DJ Shadow (used completely new sampling techniques), Grandwizard Theodore (invented the scratch), DJ Kool Herc (invented the form of music in which your recycle old music).
The thing that set hip-hop apart from other genres was generally the production style (take old music, chop it up, manipulate it, mix it, done), so the real experimentation was in the beats. And that's what they did.
That's still not what this thread was about. The thread was about rappers who have longevity, and if experimentation helped them to remain relevant. You listed DJ's, not rappers, and it wasn't about just coming up with one sound, the thread was about having longevity in the game and experimenting from one sound, style, or image, to another one. Your way off topic, start a rock thread to talk about all this, so I will know not to enter the thread, except to say that Rock is nothing compared to hip-hop, and that hip-hop outsells rock 2 to 1, and that the only Rock music that is decent now, steals their concepts from hip-hop.
i fuckin hate you and your stupitidy, so the only good rock, that is out now, is the 1, that takes old classic hits, "samples" them, throws them in a loop, with some drum and bass, and throws lyrics glorifying violence, pimping, and other illegal acts... ??? thats wat your trying to say right? you dumb fuck
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DJ Shadow (used completely new sampling techniques), Grandwizard Theodore (invented the scratch), DJ Kool Herc (invented the form of music in which your recycle old music).
The thing that set hip-hop apart from other genres was generally the production style (take old music, chop it up, manipulate it, mix it, done), so the real experimentation was in the beats. And that's what they did.
That's still not what this thread was about. The thread was about rappers who have longevity, and if experimentation helped them to remain relevant. You listed DJ's, not rappers, and it wasn't about just coming up with one sound, the thread was about having longevity in the game and experimenting from one sound, style, or image, to another one. Your way off topic, start a rock thread to talk about all this, so I will know not to enter the thread, except to say that Rock is nothing compared to hip-hop, and that hip-hop outsells rock 2 to 1, and that the only Rock music that is decent now, steals their concepts from hip-hop.
Steal their concepts from hip-hop? It's the other fucking way around. You know nothing about rock music, nothing. Hip-hop started out as mixing various genres of music. Hip-hop DJs STOLE music from others, and made it their own - and I don't care how it's made, if it's good, it sounds good, so I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Your hero Dr Dre sampled a "No Doubt" song. But because of his record sales and the fact that he makes rap music, makes him oriniginal and experimental, right? Doesn't matter much anyway. Both No Doubt and Dr Dre bore the fuck out of me, anyway.
And if record sales are so fucking important, I guess artists like Slint suck and rappers like MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice are the greatest.
And as for now, rock music is a lot more creative than hip-hop. Godspeed You Black Emperor!, Opeth, Dillinger Escape Plan, Slint, Radiohead, etc. Are all more creative than anything in hip-hop right now. Besides maybe Madlib and Dalek. I love both genres as much, though.
And another thing. Outkast do not experiment, they make different music on every album, that's not experimenting, that's making other kinds of music, there is nothing experimental about it. The Love Below was not experimental. Just because he Andre was singing and used poppy - yes, I said poppy - melodies, does not mean he's experimental. He just made something different. If having a different sound on every album makes you experimental, I guess Britney Spears is experimental becaue "Toxic" sounds nothing like her first single.
Christ, when will people fucking understand. It's like talking to a brick wall.
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Geez, I almost forgot how fucking stupid Infinite was.
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Geez, I almost forgot how fucking stupid Infinite was.
yeah, but that reminder will do for the next 3 weeks