West Coast Connection Forum

DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite on March 26, 2005, 04:44:11 PM

Title: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: TraceOneInfinite on March 26, 2005, 04:44:11 PM
Ice Tea
Dre
Eazy
2pac
Ice Cube
Daz
Kurupt
Xzibit
Snoop


I know there's some more I forgot, I'm just getting this thread started... take it from there.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: ecrazy on March 26, 2005, 04:48:29 PM
THE LIVING LEGENDS!!!!!!!!

um,

Aceyalone
Pharcyde
Souls Of Mischief
Hieroglyphics
Snoop
NWA
Dr. Dre
Ice Cube
Cypress Hill
Digital Underground
Warren G
Nate Dogg
Kurupt (even though he fell off, like fell off the worlds tallest building fell off) & Daz
Tha Likz

Ice Tea

LMMFAO!! WANT SOME CRACKERS WITH THAT ICE TEA?!?!
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Spicemuthafuc*in1 on March 26, 2005, 04:57:34 PM
2pac
e-40
too short
spice 1
kurupt
snoop
daz
warren g
dr dre
yukmouth
c-bo
ice cube

Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Darksider on March 26, 2005, 06:11:21 PM
frost
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: LAZY on March 26, 2005, 06:18:49 PM
the main stream West Coast Legends are:

Dr. Dre
Ice Cube
Eazy-E
Snoop Dogg
2pac
Ice T

but theres alot more than that King Tee, Above The Law, Mix Master Spade & Toddy Tee, DJ Quik, etc becuase they all did there things and influenced the "mainstream"
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: M Dogg™ on March 26, 2005, 07:55:08 PM
People you can't deny are legends.

Eazy E
Dr. Dre
Ice Cube
E40
Ice T
King Tee
DJ Quik
2Pac
Snoop Dogg
Too $hort
Cypress Hill
Frost
MC Eiht
WC
Pharcyde
Nate Dogg (because he was the top hookman for about 10 years)

others that are like semi-legends to be debated.

MC Ren
Xzibit
Coolio
Lighter Shade of Brown
Yukmouth
Kurupt
Spice 1
Warren G
Jurassic 5
Aceyalone
Paris
Kam
Daz
Tha Liks
Digital Undergroud
Above the Law
Dilated Peoples
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: TraceOneInfinite on March 26, 2005, 08:47:24 PM
Yeah, I was reading some of the replies.. I want to add Too Short and Nate Dogg to my list.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: ColdManey on March 26, 2005, 09:01:46 PM
Rappers:

E-40

King Tee

Spice 1

Ice T

Mac Mall

Mac Dre (RIP)

Celly Cel

C-Bo

The DOC

Snoop

Pac

JT The Bigga Figga

Messy Marv

Every Member of NWA besides Yella

MC Eiht

DJ Quik

Seagram

11/5

Luniz

Brotha Lynch

San Quinn

RBL Posse

Too $hort

Daz & Kurupt (DPG, not the solos)

Producers:

Mike Mosely

Sam Bostic

Battlecat

Funk Daddy

Ant Banks

DJ Quik

JT The Bigga Figga

Dr Dre

TC

Rick Rock

Bosko
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: BigBDrugStores on March 26, 2005, 09:35:39 PM
e40 aint no legend, fuck you tallkin bout?
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: ColdManey on March 26, 2005, 09:49:05 PM
e40 aint no legend, fuck you tallkin bout?

You have lost your mind if you think different. You might could argue some of the other names on my list but not 40. He's responsible for some of the best shit in rap history, let alone just the West Coast. YADADIMEAN!
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: jpm on March 26, 2005, 10:16:20 PM
2Pac
C-Bo
Cypress Hill
Daz
DJ Quik
Dr. Dre
E-40
Ice Cube
Kurupt
Mac Dre
MC Eiht
Nate Dogg
Snoop Dogg
Spice 1
Too Short
Warren G
Yukmouth
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: TRAGNIEW on March 27, 2005, 01:03:16 AM
THE REAL LIST

1. DRE
2. ICE CUBE
3. SNOOP
4. MC EIHT
5. DJ QUIK
6. TOO SHORT
7. ICE T
8. E-40
9. W.C
10. DAZ DILLINGER
11. CELLY CEL
12. C-BO
13. BROTHA LYNCH HUNG
14. RAPPIN 4 TAY
15. SPICE 1
16. MC REN
17. EAZY E
18. 2 PAC
19. B-LEGIT
20. CYPRESS HILL
21. WARREN G
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: mauzip on March 27, 2005, 02:02:26 AM
e40 aint no legend, fuck you tallkin bout?

You have lost your mind if you think different. You might could argue some of the other names on my list but not 40. He's responsible for some of the best shit in rap history, let alone just the West Coast. YADADIMEAN!

lmao :loser:

and when I'd say TQ is a legend you'd probably call me crazy ::)


Dr. Dre
Ice Cube
Eazy-E
Snoop Dogg
2pac
Ice T

These names are on point. Nate Dogg of course too. I believe Nate Dogg has played a huge role for hip hop in general with his hooks.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: BigBDrugStores on March 27, 2005, 09:47:37 AM
tq aint a legend but he does good music, but e40 aint do anything good he aint a legend
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: mauzip on March 27, 2005, 10:42:30 AM
tq aint a legend but he does good music

that's what i'm saying... he does have a legendary song though
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: acbaylove on March 27, 2005, 10:47:45 AM
tq aint a legend but he does good music, but e40 aint do anything good he aint a legend

E-40 is no doubt a Bay Area legend, so it's not that dumb to add him somehow in a West Coast Hip-hop legends list, c'mon.
Too $hort, E-40, Spice 1, Yukmouth, C-BO, Mac Dre, 4Tay.. we can consider them all Bay Area legends for damn sure! No doubt about it.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: BigBDrugStores on March 27, 2005, 11:29:08 AM
tq aint a legend but he does good music

that's what i'm saying... he does have a legendary song though
but any word on gemini?
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: mauzip on March 27, 2005, 12:05:13 PM
the song Make Dat Money off his new mixtape is a Gemini cut :banana:
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Machiavelli on March 27, 2005, 01:22:37 PM
WestCoast Legends are people who are influential to WestCoast Hip-Hop

 2pac
 NWA - all including The DOC
 Snoop Doggy Dogg
 DJ Quik
 Ice-T
 Mix Master Spade & Toddy Tee
 King Tee
 Too $hort
 Above The Law
 E-40

 
 
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Makaveli R.I.P. on March 27, 2005, 01:32:06 PM
2Pac
Warren G
MC Ren
Eazy-E
Dr. Dre
E-40
Ice-T
DJ Quik
Snoop Dogg
Too $hort
Frost
MC Eiht
WC
Ice Cube
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Wild_Elmo on March 27, 2005, 01:35:49 PM
theres no point in people naming the same people over and over.....
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: ExZit on March 27, 2005, 02:32:36 PM
to keep the artists to a minimum i would say..

Ice-T (the first MC to get respct on the eastcoast)

NWA (the founders of gangsta rap)

Kid Frost (the godfather of chicano rap)

Too Short + E-40 (the godfathers of bay area rap)

2pac + Snoop (for bein the commercial symbols of gangsta rap thru the 90's)


then of course there are a few others that brought their 2 cents to the game, but IMO theese are the most important!
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Machiavelli on March 27, 2005, 02:38:18 PM
to keep the artists to a minimum i would say..

Ice-T (the first MC to get respct on the eastcoast)

NWA (the founders of gangsta rap)

Kid Frost (the godfather of chicano rap)

Too Short + E-40 (the godfathers of bay area rap)

2pac + Snoop (for bein the commercial symbols of gangsta rap thru the 90's)


then of course there are a few others that brought their 2 cents to the game, but IMO theese are the most important!

yeah thats a good list...But I would add DJ Quik. Hes a legend for being the first producer/rapper(well dre, but he doesnt write his own rythms and his first album came out in 1992 while quiks came out in early 91. Also, for basically pioneering the funky sound that the Westcoast and Deathrow is famous for...
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Juronimo on March 27, 2005, 05:55:16 PM
to keep the artists to a minimum i would say..

Ice-T (the first MC to get respct on the eastcoast)

NWA (the founders of gangsta rap)

Kid Frost (the godfather of chicano rap)

Too Short + E-40 (the godfathers of bay area rap)

2pac + Snoop (for bein the commercial symbols of gangsta rap thru the 90's)


then of course there are a few others that brought their 2 cents to the game, but IMO theese are the most important!

yeah thats a good list...But I would add DJ Quik. Hes a legend for being the first producer/rapper(well dre, but he doesnt write his own rythms and his first album came out in 1992 while quiks came out in early 91. Also, for basically pioneering the funky sound that the Westcoast and Deathrow is famous for...
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: ColdManey on March 27, 2005, 06:47:48 PM
tq aint a legend but he does good music, but e40 aint do anything good he aint a legend

You trippin for real, blood. He got so many classics I cant even name em all, plus he pioneered the independent game the way its run today. There were others before him but he changed the way it was done. Independent hustle tycoon. Plus he has contributed a plethora of slang and trends to the world (fasheezy and every variation of it, even snoop will tell you that, poppin collars, etc, etc, etc) Anyway, here is just a few of his unfuckwitable hits, you need to get on this hype.

1. Sprinkle Me
2. Million Dollar Spot
3. Doin Dirt Bad
4. Captain Save A Ho
5. Hurricane (The Click)
6. Rapper's Ball
7. Hope I Dont Go Back
8. Practice Lookin Hard
9. Da Bumble
10. Sidewayz
11. Doin The Fool
12. Rep Yo City
13. Til The Dawn
14. Nuttin Ass Nigga
15. Dusted & Disgusted
16. One Luv
17. Ring It
18. I Got 5 On It Remix
19. Circumstances
20. Nigga Shit
21. Sho Nuff
22. I Hope You Get This Kite
23. Show & Prove
24. Beware Of Those
25. Rollin 100's

And the list goes on and on. You aint gotta like him, but to not recognize him as a legend and a pioneer and a true innovator is ridiculous.

Oh yeah, and I need to add One Drop Scott and Tone Capone to my producers list.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: BigBDrugStores on March 27, 2005, 07:09:56 PM
no hes not a legend, hes nobody
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: ColdManey on March 27, 2005, 09:12:43 PM
no hes not a legend, hes nobody

If only he was doin it movin like those atlanta legends at big nest records. maybe one day if he grind hella hard he'll be as big as them.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: BigBDrugStores on March 27, 2005, 09:25:53 PM
why you hatin before the cd is even finnished. BIRDSNEST
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: mauzip on March 27, 2005, 11:47:08 PM
just because you dig an artist for several years, that doesn't make him a legend

e-40 is a veteran in the game, but he's not a legend...

legends are rare and the way you guys seem to make it look is like every single artist you're feeling is a legend :-\
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: acbaylove on March 28, 2005, 12:06:53 AM
I said he's a BAY AREA legend. Period.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: TRAGNIEW on March 28, 2005, 01:33:09 AM
WHO EVER SAID E-40 WASN'T A LEGEND IS STUPID AS HELL !! HES NOT JUST A WESTCOAST LEGEND HES A HIP HOP LEGEND PERIOD !!!  AND FOR THE DUDE WHO NAMED ALL HIS HITS YOU FORGOT ONE OF HIS BEST HITS ""WOLF TICKETS """"!!

WOLF TICKETS""" ALONE MAKES HIM A FUCKIN LEGEND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: ColdManey on March 28, 2005, 01:36:49 AM
WHO EVER SAID E-40 WASN'T A LEGEND IS STUPID AS HELL !! HES NOT JUST A WESTCOAST LEGEND HES A HIP HOP LEGEND PERIOD !!!  AND FOR THE DUDE WHO NAMED ALL HIS HITS YOU FORGOT ONE OF HIS BEST HITS ""WOLF TICKETS """"!!

WOLF TICKETS""" ALONE MAKES HIM A FUCKIN LEGEND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haha, like I said, i aint got time to name em all. The ones I listed was just off the top of my head. Too many slumpers.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: ColdManey on March 28, 2005, 01:41:13 AM
why you hatin before the cd is even finnished. BIRDSNEST

I aint hate on you at all. You the one that sayin E 40 aint shit. So if E 40 is nobody, then who the fuck is you? Maybe you got some fire, I dont know, but I can damn near guarantee that you aint gonna be the factor that 40 is and has been since 89 at no point in your career. Creativity and influence like his dont come around too often.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: mauzip on March 28, 2005, 01:42:14 AM
WHO EVER SAID E-40 WASN'T A LEGEND IS STUPID AS HELL !! HES NOT JUST A WESTCOAST LEGEND HES A HIP HOP LEGEND PERIOD !!! AND FOR THE DUDE WHO NAMED ALL HIS HITS YOU FORGOT ONE OF HIS BEST HITS ""WOLF TICKETS """"!!

WOLF TICKETS""" ALONE MAKES HIM A FUCKIN LEGEND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
::)

i'm sure if you ask someone in the mall "do you know Wolf Tickets?" that person would give a negative reply

i even dare to bet 90% of the visitors of this forum don't even know that track. what drugs are you on
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: ecrazy on March 28, 2005, 01:54:35 AM
To Say E-40 is not a legend is absurd. He made up half of most of the slang used in Rap today. I heard he was even writing a Slang book too. Wasnt there even a MTV special on how E-40 helped Lil Jon make up most of his songs phrases and stuff?
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Okka on March 28, 2005, 02:25:58 AM
Dr. Dre
Snoop Dogg
Ice Cube
DPG
Eazy-E
Nate Dogg
Warren G
Cypress Hill
Xzibit
2Pac

These people are legends to me...
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Native_Joe99 on March 28, 2005, 03:44:19 AM
To Say E-40 is not a legend is absurd. He made up half of most of the slang used in Rap today. I heard he was even writing a Slang book too. Wasnt there even a MTV special on how E-40 helped Lil Jon make up most of his songs phrases and stuff?
yup i agree with that, being underrated doesn't mean your not a legend, can't believe no one mentioned Mr. Flamboyant....
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: SHOTGUN on March 28, 2005, 07:10:18 AM
any nigga who don't put Eazy-E on they list know absolutley nuttin about west coast hip hop. If it wasnt for E yaall wouldnt even know bout Cube, Dre, SNoop or even 2pac.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Thirteen on March 28, 2005, 09:23:25 AM
To Say E-40 is not a legend is absurd. He made up half of most of the slang used in Rap today. I heard he was even writing a Slang book too. Wasnt there even a MTV special on how E-40 helped Lil Jon make up most of his songs phrases and stuff?

so E-40 came up with YEEEEEEEEEAH, WHAAAAT, OOOOOOOOOOOOK?
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: SlickPants on March 28, 2005, 09:49:01 AM
N.W.A., Shock G.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: biggt on March 28, 2005, 11:22:31 AM
THA DOGG POUND GANGSTAZ ALL U OTHER FOOLS WE CONSIDER SECONDARY
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: jpm on March 28, 2005, 03:33:16 PM
i would consider Mack 10 more of a legend than WC .... but he's not a legend .. anyway .. yet
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Machiavelli on March 28, 2005, 03:38:42 PM
Digital Underground might be considered legends but i dont think so even though they were the first to rap about pussy and shit...
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: acbaylove on March 28, 2005, 04:35:27 PM
Shit why you always gotta hate on Bay Area legends? Like i said, E-40 is a fucking BAY AREA LEGEND. Shit, E-40 & Too $hort are true legends for any fan of the Bay Area rap! Dont disrespect them. They aint as commercial as 2Pac, 50 Cent, Game, Eminem, etc.. but they still OG's. BAY AREA LEGENDS for damn sure, and if you try to neglect it then you a hater!
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Machiavelli on March 28, 2005, 05:02:54 PM
Shit why you always gotta hate on Bay Area legends? Like i said, E-40 is a fucking BAY AREA LEGEND. Shit, E-40 & Too $hort are true legends for any fan of the Bay Area rap! Dont disrespect them. They aint as commercial as 2Pac, 50 Cent, Game, Eminem, etc.. but they still OG's. BAY AREA LEGENDS for damn sure, and if you try to neglect it then you a hater!

E-40 and Too $hort are a definetly Westcoast Legends and if anybody disagrees their just plain ignorant.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: acbaylove on March 28, 2005, 05:05:47 PM
Shit why you always gotta hate on Bay Area legends? Like i said, E-40 is a fucking BAY AREA LEGEND. Shit, E-40 & Too $hort are true legends for any fan of the Bay Area rap! Dont disrespect them. They aint as commercial as 2Pac, 50 Cent, Game, Eminem, etc.. but they still OG's. BAY AREA LEGENDS for damn sure, and if you try to neglect it then you a hater!

E-40 and Too $hort are a definetly Westcoast Legends and if anybody disagrees their just plain ignorant.

Shit people is on Suga Free's dick now, but they forgot who started it in 1985..
Plus they probably use the same slang E-40 invented, dissing him saying he's a nobody.
Plain ignorant.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Hatesrats™ on March 29, 2005, 07:49:46 AM
I would consider Mack 10 more of a legend than WC .... but he's not a legend .. anyway .. yet

I kinda dissagree with that statement homie...
Dub's been part of three certified "Westcoast" classic group's:
"Low Profile" w/Dj Alladin
"WC & the Madd circle" w/Coolio & Dj Crazy Toons
"Westside Connection"
and Dub's solo work.

ImO, Dub's a figure in Westcoast rap, that is very underated..
but homies been doing it big since the late 80's early 90's.

defo got's them "never get tired of" track's...
defo bump's, shit!!! ImO he killed a couple of legend's on spot's he featured on  :-X
the only draw back is WC's old school shit is very hard to get at
(His Priority stuff is mostly out of print)
if you were not around during the golden age of Westcoast hip-hop.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Spicemuthafuc*in1 on March 29, 2005, 08:06:45 AM
This is ridicolous, i love the bay and la but on these forums if your a rapper from the bay i guess you cant be as great as a rapper from la.  people are always hating on the bay in these forums. dj quik,wc, cube are some of my fav artists but i dont understand how they got constant propz and attention while everyone else dismisses e-40, spice 1 or too short as being influental pioneers as well.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Hatesrats™ on March 29, 2005, 08:12:01 AM
Too $hort is a defo legend bar none....fuck only a Westcoast
Hip-Hop legend......

can not be disputed...
Hatesrats 2oo0V
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Spicemuthafuc*in1 on March 29, 2005, 08:15:45 AM
^^^^^^w/out question
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Diabolical on March 29, 2005, 08:22:07 AM
The word legend is being over used.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Spicemuthafuc*in1 on March 29, 2005, 08:24:01 AM
^^^agree but not when your talking about spcie 1,e-40 or too short
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: acbaylove on March 29, 2005, 08:36:49 AM
This is ridicolous, i love the bay and la but on these forums if your a rapper from the bay i guess you cant be as great as a rapper from la.  people are always hating on the bay in these forums. dj quik,wc, cube are some of my fav artists but i dont understand how they got constant propz and attention while everyone else dismisses e-40, spice 1 or too short as being influental pioneers as well.

Man most of those people didnt give a fuck about Game when he worked with JT.
Now that he's working with Dre, he's the GOAT. ::)
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Diabolical on March 29, 2005, 08:40:55 AM
I think its terrible that Quik is Game's DJ, he(game) isnt even good enough to wipe his(quik) arse.
Title: Re: Who Are The Legends Of West Coast Hip-Hop? ...let the debate begin
Post by: Makaveli R.I.P. on March 29, 2005, 09:39:02 AM
I think its terrible that Quik is Game's DJ, he(game) isnt even good enough to wipe his(quik) arse.
yeah man quik is a legend....