West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on May 05, 2005, 02:33:34 PM
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Did the Chinese discover America?
Wednesday 04 May 2005, 5:43 Makka Time, 2:43 GMT
Few history theories stir as much controversy as Gavin Menzies' idea that a legendary Chinese admiral discovered America, seven decades before European explorer Christopher Columbus.
Although many historians dismiss the former British naval officer's theory, including some from China, the predominantly ethnic Chinese city-state of Singapore may give it a new sheen of respectability during a three-month exhibition beginning in June.
Menzies, author of the bestseller 1421: the Year China Discovered America, says Admiral Zheng He led a fleet of 30,000 men on board 300 ships to the American continent in the 15th century to expand China's influence during the Ming dynasty.
Zheng, says Menzies, drew up maps later used by Columbus to reach America in 1492 while searching for a new route to India.
Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan also sailed with the help of Chinese-drawn maps in the 16th century, he adds.
Outdoing Columbus
"None of the great explorers discovered anything new. They all had master maps that were charted by the Chinese," said Menzies, a 67-year-old former British submarine commander who spent about 15 years researching his 490-page book.
The government-funded Singapore Tourism Board is one of several groups backing the 10 June to 11 September outdoor exhibit at the Marina Promenade, which organisers say will unveil "new information and evidence" in support of the theory that Zheng landed in America before anyone else.
The 1421 Exhibition, organised partly by Menzies himself, will also include details of a naval base which Zheng is believed to have established in Canada at a geographical site known as Nova Cataia or New Cathay, said one organiser.
Pico Art International of Singapore will also stage celebrations this year marking the 600th anniversary of Zheng's maiden voyage through Southeast Asia, when he arrived in the port of Malacca, on the west coast of modern-day Malaysia, as the Chinese emperor's envoy.
The festivities will pay tribute to a man renowned in Chinese history as the country's greatest naval commander.
Rewriting history
But whether Zheng - a Muslim eunuch known to have sailed as far as southern Africa - beat Columbus to America by a comfortable 71 years is bitterly debated.
If true, it would rewrite history books and could cause deep soul-searching in American schools.
"It's rubbish," said Geoff Wade, a senior fellow at the Asia Research Institute of the National University of Singapore. "There is no evidence to back it up."
Historical records show that from 1405 to 1433, Zheng, under the orders of Ming Emperor Zhu Di, led China's imperial Star Fleet on seven epic voyages.
Along with its 30,000 men, the fleet, the biggest of its time, carried the hopes of an ambitious emperor seeking to expand China's influence.
Historical records show that Zheng, on one trip, returned from Africa with a captive giraffe as a gift to the emperor.
According to Menzies, he accomplished far more. Menzies says Zheng also took his fleet to America and around the globe.
"There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Zheng He's fleet did indeed reach both the Atlantic and Pacific coast of North and South America," he said.
Some scholars, including Chinese academics, reject the idea as hopeful fiction. "I would be very delighted if his theory is true but his work has got nothing to do with scholarship," a Chinese historian with a Singapore university said.
"There is no methodology in his research and no support for his arguments. He makes conjectures and suddenly they become facts."
Chinese maps
Menzies, who joined the British navy at 16, admits he is no academic but insists on the authenticity of his work.
Given China's formidable naval power in the 15th century, when some historians say China boasted the world's biggest maritime fleets, only the Chinese could have charted the master maps that led European explorers around the world, said Menzies.
Historical records show Zheng He's largest wooden junk was 130m long and 60m wide, powered by nine masts of sail and manned by at least 500 men.
That makes it nearly four times bigger than Columbus's biggest ship, the Santa Maria.
Menzies cites research which he says shows the DNA of native Americans is closer to that of Chinese than Europeans or Africans. This, he says, supports his theory that some members of Zheng's fleet stayed behind in America and started families.
"The people who live today in places where the Europeans found Chinese people in North America, those people have essential Chinese DNA in their blood," said Menzies.
"The whole world owes Zheng He a huge debt."
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LOL
Fuck you and your revisionist history.
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Oh so this must be proof of Allahs uhhh omnipresence in the human spirit or some shit huh? and uhh, another reason why more white people should feel guilty like you, cuz they are so wrong in their presumptions of the world unlike enlightened muslims huh? or uh, how maybe the vikings who discovered it first didnt actually discover it first but killed off the chinese poulation there and covered it up for centuries while they ascended power in the American political structure, ultimately reinforcing the age old truth that white people are inherintly conspiring barbarians and they are the reason all the other races of the world fuck up, huh? or am I totally wrong and this is a non biased non islam influenced fun fact?
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there is other evidence for around the same time from other places too..
rosslyn chapel in scotland built before columbus has maize carved in the architecture.. which is a north american crop... it was build by the knights templar..
there is also evidence norsemen found it long before...
of course.. natives were already there.. so who _really_ was there first?
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Ya'll need to chill out... not one word was my own, I just posted the article. Like Overseer said, how can you "discover" something when people are already there?
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fuck christopher columbus
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LOL
Fuck you and your revisionist history.
i agree
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lmao. does someone really care?
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i guess all us americans should thank allah that they sent a noble muslim to discover land that people already lived on... oh allah, the highest one, blessed be you
or should we thank the Norse gods...
oh Odin....blessed be you
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it really shows how people think of Native Americans. This land basically didnt exist until a whiteman "discovered" it.
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it really shows how people think of Native Americans. This land basically didnt exist until a whiteman "discovered" it.
Good Point, i was thinking something along those lines as well
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Ya'll need to chill out... not one word was my own, I just posted the article. Like Overseer said, how can you "discover" something when people are already there?
If you don't know that something exists and then you find it, that is making a discovery.
It doesn't matter that Indians were living there, he found something that he didn't know existed. People on both sides of the Atlantic didn't know about each other, so Columbus made a discovery. Is it really that difficult to understand?
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Who cares? They aren't gonna change history books cause of the discovery.
They should, they won't
who cares, let's smoke 8)
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This was allready known.
Anyways, Columbus will allways get credited because he was the one that discovered America for the western world.
There's no account for native Americans or Chinese in that context. Vikings are western but were a isolated part of the western world at the time,so don't really count.
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This was allready known.
Anyways, Columbus will allways get credited because he was the one that discovered America for the western world.
There's no account for native Americans or Chinese in that context. Vikings are western but were a isolated part of the western world at the time,so don't really count.
I hadn't heard anything about the Chinese getting to America first, but around 6th grade or so, they were finally teaching us that Leif Garrett (or however you spell it) was here first. It wasn't in any of our books though. Our teacher had to go out of his way to tell us.
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I hadn't heard anything about the Chinese getting to America first, but around 6th grade or so, they were finally teaching us that Leif Garrett (or however you spell it) was here first. It wasn't in any of our books though. Our teacher had to go out of his way to tell us.
(http://www.stuckinthe70s.com/images/LEIF2.JPG)
lol
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Ya'll need to chill out... not one word was my own, I just posted the article. Like Overseer said, how can you "discover" something when people are already there?
If you don't know that something exists and then you find it, that is making a discovery.
It doesn't matter that Indians were living there, he found something that he didn't know existed. People on both sides of the Atlantic didn't know about each other, so Columbus made a discovery. Is it really that difficult to understand?
Do u think if a group of Native Americans...1 day before Columbus "discovered" America..."discovered" Europe...anyone would know their names?
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I hadn't heard anything about the Chinese getting to America first, but around 6th grade or so, they were finally teaching us that Leif Garrett (or however you spell it) was here first. It wasn't in any of our books though. Our teacher had to go out of his way to tell us.
(http://www.stuckinthe70s.com/images/LEIF2.JPG)
lol
I figured as much. Obviously not Leif Garrett. :-[
Leif whatever the fuck his name is. You know what I meant. Fuck yall. I'm gonna go hide my face in shame now.
BTW, dude should have been beaten for looking like that.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Leif Erickson or something to that effect. Damn I'm slow today.
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The Vikings were the first people to discover America.
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I hadn't heard anything about the Chinese getting to America first, but around 6th grade or so, they were finally teaching us that Leif Garrett (or however you spell it) was here first. It wasn't in any of our books though. Our teacher had to go out of his way to tell us.
(http://www.stuckinthe70s.com/images/LEIF2.JPG)
lol
I figured as much. Obviously not Leif Garrett. :-[
Leif whatever the fuck his name is. You know what I meant. Fuck yall. I'm gonna go hide my face in shame now.
BTW, dude should have been beaten for looking like that.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Leif Erickson or something to that effect. Damn I'm slow today.
leif ericson, son of eric the red..lol good picture hahhahahah leif garrett
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I always thought the native Americans discovered America.
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who gives a fuck who discovered america?
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saying that someone discovered america is like saying i walked down the street and discovered a 7-11. it was there before but i discovered it for myself. i didn't know about it so i discovered it.
but i don't really care what people think about this subject