West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Javier on May 11, 2005, 09:02:33 PM
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How about he took a team from last place into first place. He took them from last to first in the Western Conference, where the Suns had to compete with teams like San Antonio and Dallas. Not as easy to do that as it is to take a team from 4th or 5th in the East one year to first in the East like Shaq did. Most of the games the Suns lost were when Nash was out of the line up. He made evryone on that Suns' Team better. And he helped create the style of offence that the Suns currently run.
The award is called the MVP, meaning the most valuable player. The Suns wouldn't be anywhere near were they are now with out Nash.
Now give me one reason why he shouldn't be MVP? Let's see if you know what you're talking about when you say he didn't deserve the MVP.
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Look at how valueable Tim Duncan was to the Spurs in the On Court/ Off Court +,- numbers
Tim Duncan
On Court +15.1
Off Court -1.4
Total 16.5 plus
Steve Nash
On Court +12.4
Off Court -2.6
Total 15 plus, which should be higher since he is a PG and is the distributor of the team. (Kidd's rating is higher)
Also, Stoudamire only missed two games, so you couldnt be able to see the direct Win Loss Result of his absence since its a small sample size. 7 games missed from Nash is also a small sample size
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how about "let it go"?
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how about "let it go"?
how about not replying if u arent going to bring anything insightful to the arguement
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Let's be serious. Noone deserved it more. I don't even want to come up with good reasons because the reasons are obvious. Knowing that, I know that you don't regard them as good reasons, since you must know 'em. Therefore there's no need.
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just because Duncan didnt have the luxury to be a FA and move to a team with two superstars doesnt mean its a good reason for Nash. Stats dont lie...there were at least 4 more valueable players than Nash
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just because Duncan didnt have the luxury to be a FA and move to a team with two superstars doesnt mean its a good reason for Nash. Stats dont lie...there were at least 4 more valueable players than Nash
Duncan has 2 MVP titles. He doesn't need a third plus he's gonna win the NBA title. Why so much people discredit Nash ?. I give u three possibilities , u can choose : they are racist , they never watched a Suns game this year or simply they don't know shit about basketball and the predominant role of the point guard 8)
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just because Duncan didnt have the luxury to be a FA and move to a team with two superstars doesnt mean its a good reason for Nash. Stats dont lie...there were at least 4 more valueable players than Nash
Nash signed with the Suns who were the wrost team in the Western Conference last year. The only had 29 wins. The first losing streak the Suns went on when they lost 5 or 6 games in a row, Nash wasn't in any of them. Nash made a greater impact on his team more than anyone else. He got the Suns to a better record than the Spurs.
You obvisously didn't watch any Suns' game, or you don't like a PG winning the ward, or you don't like a white guy winning the award.
And if you fall under that last category, then you need some serious help.
Steve Nash won the MVP because he was the most valueable player to his team. He had he greatest impact on his team more than anyone else had on their own team.
Case Closed. There are no good reasons to argue that Nash didn't deserve the award.
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So what if Duncan has 2 MVp titles already, if you look at the roland ratings he was the most valueable to the team. His impact was felt the most when he wasnt on the court
You obvisously didn't watch any Suns' game, or you don't like a PG winning the ward, or you don't like a white guy winning the award.
Yeah i really dont like a white guy winning the award :-\ Come on.
if Nash was so deserving of this MVp, then Kidd was straight out robbed the year he joined the Nets. The On Court off court numbers is a better indicator how the team performs with that player is on and off the court than Wins and Losses, its such a small sample size. The whole look at the difference from last year to this year is bullshit. Its not what newcomer improved their team the most but who is the best in the NBA. Its not most valueble to the team but to the Leauge, so its the Best Player in the NBA for that season. and the three best players i nthe NBA is Duncan, Garnett and Shaq right now...its not even debateable
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i dont get it people are saying its racist? so that means that a black athlete MUST win the award each year. first of all tim duncans team was up there so his team didnt change. mvp means the most valuable player to his team. we already know how valuable tim duncan is to his team. thats why he won it! if there was no change then that means his value didnt change. shaq's numbers went down and u ccan tell in his play. he had dwayne wade by his side, with dwayne wayde spoon feeding his ass and when cant play right wade has to bail them out. he missed lots of games due to injury. some of those games the heat won. they play in the LEASTERN conference. Kg, do we even need to talk about him? steve nash won it because of the immediate impact he had on the team. as soon as he got injured u could see how the suns deteroriated losing 5 or 6 in a row!! and they won 60 games? even if amare didnt play in two what happened to the other ones. i remember they got blown out. its steve nash's jpb tp distribute the ball but the truth of the matter is that they won games!! who cares if thats his job they had the most wins he was their best player, he took them from last place to best in the league and in the WESTERN conference. if i said shaq did that u guys wouldnt argue. so maybe its about race for u guys but u just dont want to admit it.
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i dont think shaq deserved it either. Its Duncan and shaq behind him. Behind Nash, the Suns back up PGs suck..in fact their whole bench sucks...they only play what? 7 players regularly. So when nash was out, the replacement really sucked balls. Its not Duncans fault that his team is deeper, he deserves it
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He is the true meaning of a Point Guard.
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i dont think shaq deserved it either. Its Duncan and shaq behind him. Behind Nash, the Suns back up PGs suck..in fact their whole bench sucks...they only play what? 7 players regularly. So when nash was out, the replacement really sucked balls. Its not Duncans fault that his team is deeper, he deserves it
You still haven't given a good reason as to why Nash didn't deserve the MVP. You're giving arguements that don't make sense. The MVP is for the most valueable player to his team, not just the league. And without Nash the Suns are no where as good if he wasn't there, which was proven by the fact that they barely won a game this season when Nash was out of the line up.
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lol he contradicted himself on those two posts. first saying that shaq duncan and garnett were the best in the league then he made an argument for why nash deserved the award
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i dont think shaq deserved it either. Its Duncan and shaq behind him. Behind Nash, the Suns back up PGs suck..in fact their whole bench sucks...they only play what? 7 players regularly. So when nash was out, the replacement really sucked balls. Its not Duncans fault that his team is deeper, he deserves it
You still haven't given a good reason as to why Nash didn't deserve the MVP. You're giving arguements that don't make sense. The MVP is for the most valueable player to his team, not just the league. And without Nash the Suns are no where as good if he wasn't there, which was proven by the fact that they barely won a game this season when Nash was out of the line up.
the wins and losses is a bullshit arguement. Look at the On Court off court roland ratings
Tim Duncan
On Court +15.1
Off Court -1.4
Total 16.5 plus
Steve Nash
On Court +12.4
Off Court -2.6
Total 15 plus, which should be higher since he is a PG and is the distributor of the team. (Kidd's rating is higher)
These on court off court numbers prove that Duncan was more valueable to his team than Nash was to his. The wins and losses is a small sample size to be seen as an indicator of importance, these stats are season long. And its simple
lol he contradicted himself on those two posts. first saying that shaq duncan and garnett were the best in the league then he made an argument for why nash deserved the award
Typo, i think its very clear that I dont believe Nash deserves the MVP. If i did believe that than why the hell would i make this thread?
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my thoughts exactly...
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my thoughts exactly...
<sarcasm> plz dont reply if your not bringing anything insightful to the argument. thanks. ;)
PS: Javier let it go. nash is well deserving and he got it. big fuckin deal!
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my thoughts exactly...
<sarcasm> plz dont reply if your not bringing anything insightful to the argument. thanks. ;)
PS: Javier let it go. nash is well deserving and he got it. big fuckin deal!
he's a good player, and a good guy and all...but MVP? lol. Cmon. He's a good fit for the Suns. Damn near any point guard is gonna look unbelievable in that offense. He's like Tom Brady...a little better then average talent, running a good system. Brady gets compared to Joe Montana....(yeah right). Put Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Iverson, etc...etc....on a shitty team, theyd still be in the top 5-6 players in the league. Put Nash on a team as bad as say....Dallas (lol) and he isnt even the best player on the team. So....Nash, good player, solid point guard, good teammate.....MVP.... ::)
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hey i didnt have much HW this week for school, lol
i couldnt really get into the debate earlier in the week when it was announced. Ill let it go, but ijust believed the arguements for nash are pretty flawed and weak in my POV. What would be great for basketball is an actual new stat that puts a value for each player with the combination of everything involving the game and the effect teammates have on the each player, and how different lineups throughout the game affect the game and its players a much more detailed stat than lets say the raw stats like PPG, APG, RBG, etc etc
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oh mah bad javier ur right. i misread it. i saw u said shaq and duncan behind him. and by him i thought u meant steve nash.
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thats exactly what that system would be javier, too raw. stats dont measure heart. =) thats a lot of value on a team in my opinion. leadership is too. helps keep ur team together
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Dwane wade competed in the playoffs last year and shaq got their and just made them better....
the suns with amare stoudmire and marion and joe johnson lost 50 games and now they get nash and they have the best record in the nba and the west and their scoring avg went from 90 per game last year to 110 this year,that's incredible,...
the suns probably have a better offense then the showtime Lakers...and steve nash avg the most assist since 1994 when john stockton did it....
PS
FUCK SHAQ ,LAKERS 4 LIFE!!
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There are no good arguments as to why Nash didn't deserve the MVP. None
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There are no good arguments as to why Nash didn't deserve the MVP. None
LOL
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There are no good arguments as to why Nash didn't deserve the MVP. None
Yup. Nash is well deserving of the award..
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Come up with a reason why he shouldnt get it again next year....
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Game 4 and 5 against Dallas. Is it enough ? ;D
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Most impressive were the rebounds imo. We know damn well that he can score and assist, but those rebounds and the triple double in consequence really impressed me. Dirk made the All-NBA First Team. Hooray.
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Seriously...I don't see why anyone in their right mind would choose Shaq over Nash...Just look at how well the Heat are doing without Shaq...Fuck Shaq, he ain't shit...Not even the best player on his own fucking team...Shaq is on a speedy decline...Next year I predict that he'll average under 20 points a game. Now, remove Nash from the Suns and see if they'd still be up 3-2 over Dallas...I think not.
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watch nash' game today and watch duncan's last game, you know why nash is mvp and duncan is not. watch heat playing without shaq you know why shaq is not. haters.
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watch nash' game today and watch duncan's last game, you know why nash is mvp and duncan is not. watch heat playing without shaq you know why shaq is not. haters.
Duncan plays within the offense probably better then any superstar in the league. And he still puts up his consistent numbers every game. Even the last game against Seattle. His shooting was off, and still manage to put up his usual numbers cus he;s smart enough to find other ways to make him, and his teammates better. He got to the line and scored, when his shot wasnt going down. He's probably the smartest post player in the last 15 yrs in this leagie. He knows how to make u either foul him, or give up and easy shot. Nash is a good player, no doubt....but in NO way is he the MVP lol. Like i said before, Nash was nobody on a team as good as Dallas. Now, because he's on a team that fits damn near ANY point guards style he looks amazing. Put Nash on the Hawks, and he wont even make the all star team. Put Duncan, Iverson, KG.....etc....on ANY team, and theyd still be the best players in the league. This point is pretty obvious. If u know basketball, then u get it. If not...then youre arguing for Nash lol
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You're speaking non-sense man...I'm pretty sure Chucky Atkins wouldn't be shit if he was the starting point guard for the Suns this year...Nash is an excellent player, get over it...PeACe
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You're speaking non-sense man...I'm pretty sure Chucky Atkins wouldn't be shit if he was the starting point guard for the Suns this year...Nash is an excellent player, get over it...PeACe
he's good, i didnt argue that. But all of a sudden, he's the most valuable player in the league when he hasnt been shit the rest of his career? That doesnt seem odd to u? The best players are good year in and year out. Even when their teams suck, theyre good. Even if they go to a shitty team, theyre still good. Shit, u know i dont like Kobe too much...but his year IMO was better then Nash too, and he didnt have a great year this year. Id put at least 3 players above Nash and probably more. I dont think its a race thing at all, but i do kinda think its an image thing. The press shouldnt be involved in any of this shit, but it is. Nash is a good image for the league. he's a family man, he's a passer before scorer, and he plays on a team that is exciting to watch. Did stockton ever win MVP? No...and his worst year was better then Nash's 2004-2005 season, he just played on the Jazz lol. What do u think would happen if u switched Iverson and Nash with eachother? Imagine how SHITTY Philly would be lol. I dunno, he's good....but MVP of the NBA? Whatta joke...
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Most Valueble=Best Player There is no way around it. . The development of Stoudamire is natural so this was his first year of superstar status that you will see with Amare for years to come. Is it Garnett's fault that he was with a bad team? Duncans injury but still had an amaazing and better year than Nash, Dirk(there goes the its cuz of the white guy arguement out the window). All of these players were better than Nash.
You can not replace Nash with Atkins. You have to replace nash with somebody that posted up similiar numbers to him How about Luke Ridnour? Jason Kidd? not Atkinds
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Most Valueble=Best Player There is no way around it. . The development of Stoudamire is natural so this was his first year of superstar status that you will see with Amare for years to come. Is it Garnett's fault that he was with a bad team? Duncans injury but still had an amaazing and better year than Nash, Dirk(there goes the its cuz of the white guy arguement out the window). All of these players were better than Nash.
You can not replace Nash with Atkins. You have to replace nash with somebody that posted up similiar numbers to him How about Luke Ridnour? Jason Kidd? not Atkinds
So you think Luke Ridnour would be MVP if he was playing for the Suns? LMAO, come on now...I know that you know better than that.
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thats not even close to what i said.
You said "I'm pretty sure Chucky Atkins wouldn't be shit if he was the starting point guard for the Suns this year"
and i replied with "You have to replace nash with somebody that posted up similiar numbers to him How about Luke Ridnour? Jason Kidd? not Atkinds"
Nash was not the best player in the NBA. You cant argue that. 50 years from now people are going to be saying "What in the world were they thinking...Nash got the MVP over Duncan? Garnett? Shaq? Dirk? Even fucking Stoudamire?!"
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thats not even close to what i said.
You said "I'm pretty sure Chucky Atkins wouldn't be shit if he was the starting point guard for the Suns this year"
and i replied with "You have to replace nash with somebody that posted up similiar numbers to him How about Luke Ridnour? Jason Kidd? not Atkinds"
Nash was not the best player in the NBA. You cant argue that. 50 years from now people are going to be saying "What in the world were they thinking...Nash got the MVP over Duncan? Garnett? Shaq? Dirk? Even fucking Stoudamire?!"
LMAO@saying that Luke Ridnour posts up similar numbers to Steve Nash...Man, you don't know your shit...I once thought you did, but you don't...Steve Nash is the leader of his team...Steve Nash plays on one of the NBA's better teams...That makes Steve Nash one of the better players in the NBA...I don't know how you don't see him as an MVP contender, what he did for the Suns was awesome...He was posting up more assists than I've seen done in a while, and on top of that, he could score as well (The playoffs have been proof)...His smarts is what makes him such a good player...Even I'm willing to admit that he played a better season than Kobe, and who woulda' ever thought I would say something against Kobe while ToNe was doing the opposite...I don't like Steve Nash, he's not one of my favorite players...But I know the game of basketball, and I know he was well deserving of the MVP...Hell, if Garnett would have gotten the MVP this season, it would definitely cause a lot more controversey...And if Shaq got the MVP while playing the worst season of his career, it would be a clear indication that the NBA is on a decline...Duncan could have gotten the MVP, but how many times does the man need it?...Dirk? Mavs vs. Suns is all I have to say...Stoudamire? I like Stoudamire more than I like Nash, but it's so obvious that Nash is more valuable to the Suns...He's the teams backbone...He's an excellent player, end of story...Nash is an overall better player than Stockton, and Nash's season this year was better than any of Stockton's seasons...You guys must be blind...Why would Nash win it if he wasn't that good? Ya'll simply don't know your shit...
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Luke Ridnour's Assist ratio was 33.5
Nash's Assist Ratio was 41.6
As a PG they were close. Of course nash was better but i think if Ridnour or Kidd would be on the Suns they would still be in the same spot they are in right now. Also, im not saying Nash wasnt a MVP candidate but just that he didnt deserve it it. And it shouldnt matter if Duncan has one already because no matter what it should go to the best player. And you cant take a series to show who was the MVP of the season such a small sample size
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Luke Ridnour's Assist ratio was 33.5
Nash's Assist Ratio was 41.6
As a PG they were close. Of course nash was better but i think if Ridnour or Kidd would be on the Suns they would still be in the same spot they are in right now. Also, im not saying Nash wasnt a MVP candidate but just that he didnt deserve it it. And it shouldnt matter if Duncan has one already because no matter what it should go to the best player. And you cant take a series to show who was the MVP of the season such a small sample size
STFU with the ratios...Luke Ridnour averaged 5.9 assists while Steve Nash averaged 11.5...Yes, that's right, Ridnour averaged less assists than Kobe Bryant. How are you comparing him to Steve Nash in terms of point guards? Damn man, step up your b-ball knowledge...Luke Ridnour on the Suns would mean Spurs vs Mavs for the Western Conference Finals...PeACe
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ill stick with my ratios and more detailed stats. You dont need to insult me for just seeing it from another POV do you? The numbers that i follow now show a better representation for players, i could use more in detailed stats but nobody in the world would know what the fuck im talking about. The regular numbers are just too raw to represent the players value. It doesnt take into consideration the players around them, minutes played, and a whole lot of shit.
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ill stick with my ratios and more detailed stats. You dont need to insult me for just seeing it from another POV do you? The numbers that i follow now show a better representation for players, i could use more in detailed stats but nobody in the world would know what the fuck im talking about. The regular numbers are just too raw to represent the players value. It doesnt take into consideration the players around them, minutes played, and a whole lot of shit.
LOL...Honestly, I have nothing against you nor your opinion...I just think that it's dumb for you to believe Luke Ridnour and Steve Nash are comparable, but my bad if it seems like I had been insulting you...I just need to mellow out a little, but I realize that it's just your opinion, and though it may sound dumb to me, who's to say that it is?...I just hope you see that less people will agree with you, because the average basketball fan sees Nash as an excellent player...You can keep adjusting your numbers, but it won't change shit, because the majority of analysts and basketball heads think Nash is a valuable artribute to the NBA...PeACe
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Well again im not saying Nash is worthless just not the best player in the NBA. thats all
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cuz Shaq is a punk
- WestCoasta aka Los Angeles resident aka Laker fan aka suck my weener
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Get the fuck over this all ready!!!!! The right guy got the MVP. The award is for the player who is most valueable to his team, and no one was more valueable to his team than Steve Nash was to the Suns. It's not like this has been is only good season, the guy's been an all-star before with Dallas.
Nash deserved the award this season because he was the most valueable player and there are no agruements to prove otherwise.
He won it, he deserved it now shut the fuck up and get over it!!!!
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Get the fuck over this all ready!!!!! The right guy got the MVP. The award is for the player who is most valueable to his team, and no one was more valueable to his team than Steve Nash was to the Suns. It's not like this has been is only good season, the guy's been an all-star before with Dallas.
Nash deserved the award this season because he was the most valueable player and there are no agruements to prove otherwise.
He won it, he deserved it now shut the fuck up and get over it!!!!
jesus christ, calm the fuck down. ur the only one taking up the ass. ONly reason im replying is to counter with what i believe weak arguements. Plus, just because they elected him MVP doesnt mean its the truth. MVP=Best player if it was most valueble to his team than it would say that but it doesnt. You can honestly flat out say that Nash was the best player in the year 2005?
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Why would Nash win it if he wasn't that good? Ya'll simply don't know your shit...
Same reason Stockton and Malone won "co-MVP" at the all star game in Utah, politics lol
Like i said, he's no better then he has been the last few years in Dallas....and he wouldnt have been considered one of the top 30 players in the league then, and probably the third best player on THAT team. He's just in a better system now, where almost ANY point guard would succeed. Could u imagine what kinda numbers somebody like Kidd would put up in this offense. Shit, Tony Parker would put up crazy numbers in this offense...but that wouldnt make him the league MVP all of a sudden.
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Why would Nash win it if he wasn't that good? Ya'll simply don't know your shit...
Same reason Stockton and Malone won "co-MVP" at the all star game in Utah, politics lol
Like i said, he's no better then he has been the last few years in Dallas....and he wouldnt have been considered one of the top 30 players in the league then, and probably the third best player on THAT team. He's just in a better system now, where almost ANY point guard would succeed. Could u imagine what kinda numbers somebody like Kidd would put up in this offense. Shit, Tony Parker would put up crazy numbers in this offense...but that wouldnt make him the league MVP all of a sudden.
I honestly think Nash is doing a better job than Tony Parker or Jason Kidd would have done...He's averaging 11.5 assists, the most he has averaged in his career, and the most I've seen averaged in a while...PeACe
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Why would Nash win it if he wasn't that good? Ya'll simply don't know your shit...
Same reason Stockton and Malone won "co-MVP" at the all star game in Utah, politics lol
Like i said, he's no better then he has been the last few years in Dallas....and he wouldnt have been considered one of the top 30 players in the league then, and probably the third best player on THAT team. He's just in a better system now, where almost ANY point guard would succeed. Could u imagine what kinda numbers somebody like Kidd would put up in this offense. Shit, Tony Parker would put up crazy numbers in this offense...but that wouldnt make him the league MVP all of a sudden.
I honestly think Nash is doing a better job than Tony Parker or Jason Kidd would have done...He's averaging 11.5 assists, the most he has averaged in his career, and the most I've seen averaged in a while...PeACe
i agree to disagree lol. im gettin kinda tired of this topic anyways.