West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on August 09, 2005, 12:55:42 AM
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Lakers definitely haven't made any huge improvements roster-wise from last season (other than the coach change, of course), but it's not how the roster looks that counts, it's how the roster comes together under its coach to play. I believe the Lakers will shock everyone with a huge improvement and even a high spot in the playoff seeding at the end of this coming season...People saying the Lakers need another superstar, or some more "impact players"...But if you look at the starting 5 line-up, it seems like it could definitely work:
Kobe Bryant….Sasha Vujacic/Tierre Brown
Devean George...Smush Parker/Tony Bobbit/Von Wafer
Lamar Odom…..Jumain Jones/Luke Walton/Laron Profit
Kwame Brown…..Brian Grant/Brian Cook/Slava Medvadenko/Ronny Turiaf
Chris Mihm…..Andrew Bynum
That's easily a better starting 5 than what the Lakers had last season...You see, what the Lakers really need is to MOST OF ALL streghnthen their bench. Then maybe add a point guard who can play and improve on the center position...The center position is already being worked on, as ya'll see the Lakers have some big-men potential in Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown, and Andrew Bynum, who are all being developed. So you can put that one aside. Now all the Lakers need is to replace some of the bums on their bench with some hard working athletes who want to win. Then maybe add a point guard, like, lets say Derek Fisher. Now, add the fact that the team's being coached by Phil Jackson, and you've got yourself some serious contenders...I really believe the potential is being overlooked and that some magic is about to happen in LA...But only time will tell.
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Turiaf is out. By the way Tex Winter is back with Phil 8). About results I think we can make the playoffs but a spot above the 6th doesn't seem realistic for me regarding the roster. Though the season is far from the beginnin, plus like you said some players (Mihm for example) can improve with Phil
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Last year it was been one of them season where nothing worked. I doubt the Lakers can make a worse season than the last one, for real. We played with no defence at all, allowing opponents to score almost 102 points per game, a scandalous statistic (in the last 10 games, where we collapsed, opponents scored almost 113 points per game!!!!!). With Phil back, obviously we will not see those stats again, so that's enought to make us a better team. We can def reach at least the #8 spot, i'm sure about it. But we have to work a lot, and we need to make other trades. But i'm pretty optimistic next year we will do better. Not that it's so hard anyway.
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Last year it was been one of them season where nothing worked. I doubt the Lakers can make a worse season than the last one, for real. We played with no defence at all, allowing opponents to score almost 102 points per game, a scandalous statistic (in the last 10 games, where we collapsed, opponents scored almost 113 points per game!!!!!). With Phil back, obviously we will not see those stats again, so that's enought to make us a better team. We can def reach at least the #8 spot, i'm sure about it. But we have to work a lot, and we need to make other trades. But i'm pretty optimistic next year we will do better. Not that it's so hard anyway.
about tradin we absolutely need a PG
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^ We still have a MLE and a LLE, so i aint worried about it.
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I couldn't resist laughin when I looked at that bench. Luke Walton is the best player on there, and that is saying a lot. You also lack a real point guard. And if Brown isn't the next Jermaine O'Neal, but a complete bust, Lakers are really fucked. I'm sorry but I really don't see how this team will go anywhere, it's almost like Orlando back in the day when McGrady was the only man in the roster who could play basketball.
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I couldn't resist laughin when I looked at that bench. Luke Walton is the best player on there, and that is saying a lot. You also lack a real point guard. And if Brown isn't the next Jermaine O'Neal, but a complete bust, Lakers are really fucked. I'm sorry but I really don't see how this team will go anywhere, it's almost like Orlando back in the day when McGrady was the only man in the roster who could play basketball.
You can hate the Lakers all day but Lakers history>>>>>> your favorite team one
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^^^^ That's what fallen ones always have to rely on. History.
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^^^^ That's what fallen ones always have to rely on. History.
Great teams never die. We'll back on top as always
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^^^^ That's what fallen ones always have to rely on. History.
Great teams never die. We'll back on top as always
Yeah, but you'll have to endure more bad/mediocore seasons than just 1. Look at the Celtics, they are even greater than the Lakers, but how long is it that they where contenders for a championship?
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^^^^ That's what fallen ones always have to rely on. History.
Great teams never die. We'll back on top as always
Yeah, but you'll have to endure more bad/mediocore seasons than just 1. Look at the Celtics, they are even greater than the Lakers, but how long is it that they where contenders for a championship?
I've already known we won't be contenders til 2007-2008 (if we wouls sign major players). Anyway I still support them though they have no chance to win. I ain't one of these fake fans who only supports a franchise when she wins. If I can wait Detox for seven years , sure I can do it for the Lakers lol. About the Celtics you right , their old fans must be fed up of waiting for (if i'm right since 86)
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Look at the Celtics, they are even greater than the Lakers
:-X :-X :-X
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I couldn't resist laughin when I looked at that bench.
Like I said, the starting 5 looks fine, it's mostly the bench that needs some filling in...I mean, Brian Grant, Jumain Jones, Luke Walton, Briank Cook, Slava Medvadenko etc. are somewhat decent players, but we need some players on the bench who can REALLY step up and add some depth to the team...And yes, we might need another point guard, but Kobe can play the point and has done so for a good portion of his career...But an addition like Derek Fisher would move Devean George to the bench and Kobe Bryant to the shooting guard position, which would add depth to the bench and improve on the point guard postion. A great way to kill 2 birds with 1 stone...I have faith in this team, they have A LOT to work with...PeACe
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you gotta love this lil faggots jumping about & down b/c the Lakers had 1 bad season & the thought that they may suck for a while
this were the same fags mad that we were winning championships.
And the celtics are not a better franchice then the Lakers..the celtics did all their damege in the 50's 60's & even 70's i think
80's-- Lakers won more then the celtics 5 to 3 & like 9 final apperences
90's-Lakers
2 g's-Lakers 3 championships 4 final apperences..got/had 2 best players in NBA shaq & kobe
i don't care if the celtics do have 2 more trophys then us..we still the best & been to the finals 28 times ,celtics 19
back to the topic
just havin phil will make us better....kobe is going to have an mvp season..but fuckin lamar better learn the triangle offence..i know that shit is hard to pick up but we need him to step it up...Lamar will over power anny SF in the nba if he could just learn the triangle offence.
And the bench is not the best but i like...j.jones,walton,b.grant is a big question mark.
the Lakers didn't struggle scoring points Last season it was just that fuckin defence...kobe alone could win a gang of games..phil just needs to concetrate on coming up with defence of schemes
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i think the key element is how phil jackson wants his team to play bball is it Kobe dominant or down in the paint with odom, mihm and brown..cause apparently kobe couldnt do it by himself last year
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Devean George won't be starting...he's still likely to be traded with Slava to Indiana for Bender....and the Lakers are looking to sign Derek Anderson....so the starting lineup would look something like this....
Derek Anderson
Kobe Bryant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm
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Like i said before, it's all about defence. To score was never been a problem, in L.A.! It's the defence who can turn a team from average to good. Phil is one of the best in the NBA to teach defence, so i'm sure that's where he should focus his energy. Turiaf was a great defensive player (too bad he's injured for the whole season), and Bynum has long arms so he can backup Mihm (a pretty good defensive center) for a couple of minutes. Plus Brown. He's not a great defender, but he's better than Odom, as a PF. So it's an improvement. And if we sign Derek Anderson or Derek Fisher instead of Atkins then you have a good defensive PG instead of the worse defensive PG in the NBA. That alone makes our team better. Then obviously we need to make a couple of trades to be considered a "good" team, and we gotta start to play some real defence. But i'm positive we could do it. We will see.
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LMFAO @ Any laker fan thinking kwame is going be a impact player.
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^ I think none in this board has ever said it so stop it already.
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nik pretty much has said without actually saying it in those words
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Devean George won't be starting...he's still likely to be traded with Slava to Indiana for Bender....and the Lakers are looking to sign Derek Anderson....so the starting lineup would look something like this....
Derek Anderson
Kobe Bryant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm
ouch derek anderson at point? he's more of a sg
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^ He def can play the point, expecially in a triangle system.
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nik pretty much has said without actually saying it in those words
NIK was saying what? Are you stupid? I'm one of the people who didn't like the trade for Kwame AT ALL, and I've stated it numerous times...I don't think he can be an impact player, I said I HOPE he can play some good basketball for the Lakers, that's all, you dumbass...If he can average 12 points and 8 rebounds, that would be excellent for the Lakers...PeACe
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Devean George won't be starting...he's still likely to be traded with Slava to Indiana for Bender....and the Lakers are looking to sign Derek Anderson....so the starting lineup would look something like this....
Derek Anderson
Kobe Bryant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm
That trade was a bullshit rumor...Lakers don't even need Bender anymore, they got Kwame...I would have prefered the George & Slava for Bender & draft pick trade to the Butler & Atkins for Kwame & Profit trade, but that one never went down...And the Lakers didn't seem to be too impressed with Derek Anderson when he worked out for them. All Derek A. wants is 5 mill a year for 2 years and the Lakers can easily afford that after dropping Brian Grant, but Derek A. is injury prone and plays more SG anyways...The Lakers should go with Marko Jaric, who they were said to be interested in eariler this month...He would be a perfect fit for the triangle offense. He's an excellent passer, a consistant scorer, and a good defender as well...Reminds me a lot of Steve Nash. If the Lakers can pick him up, that would be perfect. Then again, there's Derek Fisher, who would also be a good fit and already knows the triangle...So if the Lakers pick up one of those three players, they'd have a nice line-up and an improved bench...Check it out:
Marko Jaric (option 1), Derek Fisher (option 2), Derek Anderson (option 3)….Sasha Vujacic/Tierre Brown
Kobe Bryant...Smush Parker/Tony Bobbit/Von Wafer
Lamar Odom…..Devean George/Jumain Jones/Luke Walton/Laron Profit
Kwame Brown…..Brian Cook/Slava Medvadenko/Ronny Turiaf*
Chris Mihm…..Andrew Bynum
* - Out for season.
Tell me that doesn't look nice?...One more addition to the bench, and you have yourself a serious team ready to contend...I'm looking forward to the season...We'll see what goes down. 8)
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^ He def can play the point, expecially in a triangle system.
Very true.
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i think the Lakers can make the playoffs (im not saying they WILL, im saying they can). But, i seriously doubt theyll be a high seed. No higher then 7th...
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trades and signing players are not over.
when its all said and done next yrs lakers will look like the 90's bulls.
The Championship is coming back to LA my niggas.
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trades and signing players are not over.
when its all said and done next yrs lakers will look like the 90's bulls.
The Championship is coming back to LA my niggas.
lol@ this guy...
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trades and signing players are not over.
when its all said and done next yrs lakers will look like the 90's bulls.
The Championship is coming back to LA my niggas.
:sign_werd: when it comes to basketball knowledge
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No higher then 7th...
Lets bet...I have this quote marked.
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No higher then 7th...
Lets bet...I have this quote marked.
I bet not above 6th ;)
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6-3...With some better acquisations, possibly as high as 2nd or 1st...PeACe
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Looks like Dan Dickau, Jalen Rose, and Tyrone Lue are said to be some more options for the Lakers to fill in the point guard position...Personally, I'd hate Dan Dickau on the Lakers...Tyrone Lue would be quite decent, he's loved down here in LA...But Jalen Rose would be fuckin awesome...That would automatically make the Lakers contenders in my opinion...A backcourt of Rose & Kobe and a frontcourt of Odom & Kwame...But who knows what move the Lakers will make...Jalen Rose in purple and gold just sounds sweet.
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lakers would have the tallest starting 5 if Jalen signed.
Jalen Rose - 6'8"
Kobe Bryant - 6'6"
Lamar Odom - 6'10
Kwame Brown - 7"
Chris Mihm - 7"
that would give us so much size. something we lacked last yr since lamar odom and chris mihm were the only players taller than 6'10"
that starting 5 can do serious damage under Phil Jackson. i just think they're soft in the center position. Chris Mihm is a solid back up but not quite a starter on a Contender team.
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Looks like Dan Dickau, Jalen Rose, and Tyrone Lue are said to be some more options for the Lakers to fill in the point guard position...Personally, I'd hate Dan Dickau on the Lakers...Tyrone Lue would be quite decent, he's loved down here in LA...But Jalen Rose would be fuckin awesome...That would automatically make the Lakers contenders in my opinion...A backcourt of Rose & Kobe and a frontcourt of Odom & Kwame...But who knows what move the Lakers will make...Jalen Rose in purple and gold just sounds sweet.
I whouldnt go as far as considering them contenders. I like Rose too, he should fit very well in the triangle system. But c'mon, contenders? A play-off team for sure, tho.
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Rose would be good. Lue and Dickau suck so damn hard. Lue can not shoot the 3 for shit.
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Rose would be good. Lue and Dickau suck so damn hard. Lue can not shoot the 3 for shit.
Lue can't shoot the 3 for shit? You're fuckin nuts, Lue had a very good shot and a high percentage 3 ball, especially from what I remember when he played for the Lakers...And he's improved his game a lot since then, I think he's another player with lots of potential...He's very quick and he can play on both ends of the floor...I don't know about Dickau, I think maybe one day he can be an effective point guard, but that day hasn't come yet, so the Lakers shouldn't acquire him...The choice right now should be between Dererk Fisher, Nick Van Exel, Derek Anderson, Tyronn Lue, and JALEN ROSE...Rose would be amazing, but anyone from that list would be good...PeACe
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Lue can not shoot the 3 for shit.
He shot .355 % from 3pts. It's not a wonderful percentage, but no shit it's better than Lebron's .351 %, just to make an example. So Lebron can not shoot the 3 for shit, too? ;D
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Lue can not shoot the 3 for shit.
He shot .355 % from 3pts. It's not a wonderful percentage, but no shit it's better than Lebron's .351 %, just to make an example. So Lebron can not shoot the 3 for shit, too? ;D
::) You can't just take them stats and be done with it statsboy. It's not only about the percentage, or would you say that Shaq is an amazing 3pt Shooter if he takes 1 3pt shot next season and makes it, leaving him with 1.000 at the end of the season? lol. Lue takes way less 3pt shots than your average guard. For a reason. He basically only tries to shoot when he's open, and still misses a lot lol. He is a remarkably bad 3pt shooter for his size and position. Well and Dickau didnt even really make it to the bench of Dallas. He should be your starting 5 director? Good luck with that. A point guard needs brains, or the whole team is dragged down.
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The thing i hate about you is when you wanna insist on something you know is wrong. Give it up. You're keep saying Lue can't shoot, but you know you made a mistake because you havent seen him playing last year, so shut up. He shot .451 from 2pts (better than Lebron's first year and than Lebron's career average), 0.861 from FT (hella better than Lebron, in the top 15 of the NBA) and .355 from 3pts (better than Lebron). He CAN shoot. And please consider he put those numbers in Atlanta, with a wack ass team where nobody was doubled and where he had to create them shots by himself. In L.A. there are Kobe, Odom and Brown who can create him some good shots from the middle-long range, so he'll shoots even better if he'll sign with the Lakers. Now i dont want to compare the player Lue to the player James, cause obviously James is 10x better. I'm just saying he CAN shoot, and he CAN defend. And that's why Lakers should sign him IMO. Plus Phil Jackson loves him, he's a Lue fan (he said it by himself) so i dunno why we shouldnt sign him.
P.S. "He is a remarkably bad 3pt shooter for his size and position"? Good luck with Larry Hughes and his .282 % from 3pts.
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::) I didnt talk about his shooting in general, quit making up stuff. And yes, Hughes is a terrible 3pt Shooter, unlike Laker fans, I don't try to make things better than they are.. In addition to that, lmao, since you like to compare to James so much, I have to assure you that his %age is at least way better than Kobe's 8). Anyways, it's not really worthy a debate, Lue sucks so hard, Bob Sura was way better than him LMAO.. and he won't even play for the Lakers next year. Rose is better, but also not really fitting the Lakers at all, cause all he does is scoring, which is what Kobe wants to be left to him.. ah well I can see the day comin when Laker-fans aka let-us-hate-on-every-player-who-leaves-the-team-dudes realize how aight Atkins actually was.. pz
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::) I didnt talk about his shooting in general, quit making up stuff. And yes, Hughes is a terrible 3pt Shooter, unlike Laker fans, I don't try to make things better than they are.. In addition to that, lmao, since you like to compare to James so much, I have to assure you that his %age is at least way better than Kobe's 8). Anyways, it's not really worthy a debate, Lue sucks so hard, Bob Sura was way better than him LMAO.. and he won't even play for the Lakers next year. Rose is better, but also not really fitting the Lakers at all, cause all he does is scoring, which is what Kobe wants to be left to him.. ah well I can see the day comin when Laker-fans aka let-us-hate-on-every-player-who-leaves-the-team-dudes realize how aight Atkins actually was.. pz
Lue sucks so hard he was able to defend against Iverson in 2001 NBA Finals ::). He's a way better defender than Atkins. James better than Kobe at his age ?. It's easier to put good numbers when u are one of the only good players in your team. Kobe could do James number if he played for Atlanta at 20. Plus Kobe = 3 titles, James= none playoffs so ......
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I didnt talk about defense either. LOL... All I said that he's a bad 3pt shooter, maybe he's good at defense, or free throws, or a good family man.. I DONT CARE.. all I said is that he sucks at shooting the 3, he's a lot worse than Atkins at it. LeBron not better than Kobe? You gotta be kiddin me. Kobe WAS on a bad team, where he was allowed to do everything, and still had worse numbers at 26 than Lebron at 20. The 3 titles come from SHAQ.. without Shaq, he didnt make the playoffs either.. you see both arguments don't work.. LeBron > Kobe, this year was still argueable, but next year will ultimately show Bron > Kobe, pz.
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Man give it up, please. It aint funny to ridiculize you that way everytime. Like i said, you've already lost this argument a couple of posts ago. 55/155, .355% from 3pts without having a dominant center inside who creates you the shoots is not a bad stat, and you're a moron if you continue to write he can't shoot from 3pts. Matter of fact NONE in the Cavs roster has done better (shooting at least 100x, i mean), so if you put him in the Cavs, he'll be the best 3pts shooter of your team. Like i said, Larry Hughes is horrible from 3pts, not Lue. Lue can teach Hughes how to shoot from 3pts and how to defend. Shit Lue made more assists too, and he made better % from FT and from 2pts. If we sign Lue, we'll do it for the LLE or for half the MLE. Your fav team overpaid Hughes tons of billions. Talking about overpaying someone... Give it up! Lue is a pretty good player, who already proved he can play in the NBA Play Offs (i mean NBA Finals) defending against the (real) MVP of "that" season.. You're so desperate that you're trying to make Atkins a great PG, lmao! For real, it's embarassing. You've lost.
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My fav team aint the Cavs, for a start. Hughes is way more of a player than Lue. You are so desperate that you try to make every player who is considered to sign with the Lakers a good player. It's embarrassing what Laker-Fans have become anyway. From arrogant, always winning fans of a team feared by everyone to guys who dream about signing somebody like Tyron Lue for their Starting 5. LOL..
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Just to shut you down for the last time, my first and only post in this topic before you lied about Lue was this one.
Looks like Dan Dickau, Jalen Rose, and Tyrone Lue are said to be some more options for the Lakers to fill in the point guard position...Personally, I'd hate Dan Dickau on the Lakers...Tyrone Lue would be quite decent, he's loved down here in LA...But Jalen Rose would be fuckin awesome...That would automatically make the Lakers contenders in my opinion...A backcourt of Rose & Kobe and a frontcourt of Odom & Kwame...But who knows what move the Lakers will make...Jalen Rose in purple and gold just sounds sweet.
I whouldnt go as far as considering them contenders. I like Rose too, he should fit very well in the triangle system. But c'mon, contenders? A play-off team for sure, tho.
Once i've said it, let me add i dont consider Lue a starter, but a bench player, a great role player. And i'm not making it any better than he is, he has already proven it in purple&gold, in the NBA Finals. It was been Phil Jackson who said he's a fan of Lue. Jackson himself. Jackson wants Lue or Pargo (yes, Pargo) to be our backup PG, cause he loves them. Stop lying, i aint saying he's the best PG in the league. I dunno why i shouldnt consider him a good fit for the Lakers if Laker's coach said he wants him to be our backup PG. Shit, if i say so i'm arrogant? Give it up fool.
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Don't get shit twisted about 'arrogant'. >:(
LOL@"before you lied about Lue"
:)
Considering how horrifying your bench is, I agree, Lue would improve your bench.
LMAO@Pargo
Anyways let's see how this all turns out. And Lue is still not a good 3pt shooter.
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7 heaven has to be a fuckin retard if he thinks "lebronze" is better then kobe!...how is that different from people saying kobe is better then jordan?...that fool has yet to score a point/play a minute in the playoffs!
go suck a dick faggot...
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LeBron better than Kobe? Atkins a good point guard for the Lakers? Lue can't shoot? What's next... 7even's really a guy?
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He just doesnt know shit about bball. That's it. But for real, it's embarassing to chat with him cause he thinks he's a talent scout or something, while he just doesnt knows shit.
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Yea I know how everyone thought I was talkin shit when I said Clippers will have a better season than Lakers last year while Lakers wont make the playoffs and look who was right again ::)
Atkins isnt a great player, but better than Lue or Dickau for sure. That is right.
LeBron is better than Kobe, without a doubt. It's so damn obvious lol, there isnt 1 single reason why it wouldnt be like that, except that LeBron has never proved himself in big games. Well unless you think he's a choker, there's no way you could ever think Kobe is better.. LOL@even TRYING to compare Kobe to Jordan. That's an insult. Kobe is lightyears closer to McGrady and Iverson than he ever was to Jordan. 3 Championships? There are like 15 guards who wouldve won 3 titles in 6 years with Shaq during his prime. Doesn't take a Jordan to pull that off. LeBron shitted on Kobe in nearly every aspect this season. Wins, FG%, Steals, Rebounds, Assists - and points are equal. While Kobe has already played 6 more seasons and a lot more experience. How someone in his right mind can have the nerve to say ppl who consider LeBron better are retarded, is beyond me. This forum is so full of Kobe-Stans, it's not even funny.
Anyway, next year when Lakers again struggle to make the playoffs and LeBron and his Cavs shine, I'll be the one who was right at the end of the day, like always.
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^^^^shut the fuck up!!.& you're a fuckin hater
kobe 3 straight championships & has come through in the clutch millions of times...& last year kobe had his worst year b/c of rudy t's great system ::)..& no,not anny guard would of won championships w/ shaq...penny 0..nick van axel & ediie jones 0...d wade 0..enough said bitch..it's amazing how the haters just want to forget all the clutch shots/great games/big 4rth quarters kobe had in the championship years & will have again under phil jax & the triangle.
"lebronze" 0 championships,no playoff games playd,has yet to prove himself in the big stage,no playoff minutes playd :laugh: no points in playoffs :laugh:!!!!!!!
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Yea I know how everyone thought I was talkin shit when I said Clippers will have a better season than Lakers last year while Lakers wont make the playoffs and look who was right again ::)
Atkins isnt a great player, but better than Lue or Dickau for sure. That is right.
LeBron is better than Kobe, without a doubt. It's so damn obvious lol, there isnt 1 single reason why it wouldnt be like that, except that LeBron has never proved himself in big games. Well unless you think he's a choker, there's no way you could ever think Kobe is better.. LOL@even TRYING to compare Kobe to Jordan. That's an insult. Kobe is lightyears closer to McGrady and Iverson than he ever was to Jordan. 3 Championships? There are like 15 guards who wouldve won 3 titles in 6 years with Shaq during his prime. Doesn't take a Jordan to pull that off. LeBron shitted on Kobe in nearly every aspect this season. Wins, FG%, Steals, Rebounds, Assists - and points are equal. While Kobe has already played 6 more seasons and a lot more experience. How someone in his right mind can have the nerve to say ppl who consider LeBron better are retarded, is beyond me. This forum is so full of Kobe-Stans, it's not even funny.
Anyway, next year when Lakers again struggle to make the playoffs and LeBron and his Cavs shine, I'll be the one who was right at the end of the day, like always.
See, the thing you fail to realize is you're 100% wrong. You don't understand the game of basketball...LeBron couldn't do half the shit Kobe has done...Stats don't mean shit, McGrady and Vince Carter have had amazing stats with their teams when their teams have SUCKED...Same with LeBron...But basketball is about a lot more than that...It's about the special things you see, like Kobe scoring 40+ points in almost 15 games in a row, or Kobe hitting that last shot at the buzzer to win the series or clinch the pacific division, and Kobe coming straight off a plane from his court trial in Denver to put up 50 points 10 rebounds and 8 assists in an important playoff game, or even something like Kobe's last game against Jordan where he amazingly put up 60 points in a HALF before sitting on the bench most of the second half...See, LeBron doesn't have these artributes under his belt...Kobe is way closer to Jordan than LeBron is to Kobe...And Lue or Dickau haven't even reached their prime yet, they're both players with a nice amount of potential...They would fit into a Laker roster way better than Atkins, who reached his full potential, but still couldn't play for shit (especially on the defensive end)...It'll be a while before you really start to comprehend the game of basketball, but you've said some dumb things in this thread...PeACe
PS...In 15 years when the Lakers have 5+ more championships under their belt and the Cavs have 0, the slow people will see why what 7even is saying is complete bullshit...Just stop the madness.
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^^^^^^^exactly man..kobe has done/will do things that Lebonze never will...he has a chance but we have yet to see lebronze do what kobe has done in his great career 8)
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No higher then 7th...
Lets bet...I have this quote marked.
i wouldnt bet yet anyways until the season started. Signings can still be made. but when its all said an done, i still doubt theyll be above a 7 seed. San Antonio will probably be the favorite in the west. Dallas will still be a good regular season team. Houston will still be in the middle of the pack as far as playoff seeds. Phoenix will still be a strong regular season team. Seattle wont be as good as they were, but i still see them finishing above LA. Sac will more then likely finish above LA. Minnesota i BELIEVE will bounce back from last year shitty season. Denver was off the chain the second half of last season. I think theyll still be a solid team. Theres 8 teams who can, and maybe will all finish above LA. Theyd have to find a slot to fit in there....and id say they can maybe....MAYBE finish above two of those teams without some MAJOR signing.
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PS...In 15 years when the Lakers have 5+ more championships under their belt and the Cavs have 0, the slow people will see why what 7even is saying is complete bullshit...Just stop the madness.
Steve Kerr is a FAR better player then Sir Charles, Malone, Wilkens....even Kobe....lol
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someone ban that faggot.
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someone ban that faggot.
i dunno if youre talkin about my post or not lil homie...but im going on the logic that Kobe is a better player then Lebron based on his championship rings won with Shaq. If people wanna argue that Kobe is better then Lebron, thats fine. But dont base it on his rings when he hasnt done SHIT without Shaq and Lebron has basically nobody with him to help him. I dont think Lebron is a "better" player then Kobe right now anyways. But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe. I think his future is brighter then Kobe's from this point on. Kobe IMO has had his spotlight already and i dont think his game is gonna raise any after those 3 championships.
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
at least one half of your statement is correct ;D
honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
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It's hard to make game winning shots when your team isnt winning..
just thought I'd leave a deep thought .. everybody can interpret it anyway he or she wants.
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That's true. Cleveland ain't good enought for LeBron to prove if he's a winner or a looser, he needs some help. But this year it's a must to reach at least the 1st round of the Play Offs, cause 3 straight years with no post-season looks very unhappealing.
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Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
YOU'RE A MORON
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Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
YOU'RE A MORON
besides u being just a blind fan...what is there to prove that im wrong? Kobe's unbelievable year last year? I was partially just fukin with NIK...but at the same time, Kobe doesnt have a many more years. He is still kinda young, but i dont see his game improving. If anything its stayed the same. Last year he didnt step it up. This year will probably be the same. He might improve SLIGHTLY but that will be a result of the team around him improving and Phil being there. Its for sure, he'll never win another championship unless he gets some MAJOR....MAJOR help. If he couldnt even get his team into the playoffs last year....in the prime of his career...with what NIK called at the beginning of the season a decent supporting cast....what would make people think he will win a championship in the second half of his career without some serious help?
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Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
YOU'RE A MORON
besides u being just a blind fan...what is there to prove that im wrong? Kobe's unbelievable year last year? I was partially just fukin with NIK...but at the same time, Kobe doesnt have a many more years. He is still kinda young, but i dont see his game improving. If anything its stayed the same. Last year he didnt step it up. This year will probably be the same. He might improve SLIGHTLY but that will be a result of the team around him improving and Phil being there. Its for sure, he'll never win another championship unless he gets some MAJOR....MAJOR help. If he couldnt even get his team into the playoffs last year....in the prime of his career...with what NIK called at the beginning of the season a decent supporting cast....what would make people think he will win a championship in the second half of his career without some serious help?
you're still a moron
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Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
YOU'RE A MORON
besides u being just a blind fan...what is there to prove that im wrong? Kobe's unbelievable year last year? I was partially just fukin with NIK...but at the same time, Kobe doesnt have a many more years. He is still kinda young, but i dont see his game improving. If anything its stayed the same. Last year he didnt step it up. This year will probably be the same. He might improve SLIGHTLY but that will be a result of the team around him improving and Phil being there. Its for sure, he'll never win another championship unless he gets some MAJOR....MAJOR help. If he couldnt even get his team into the playoffs last year....in the prime of his career...with what NIK called at the beginning of the season a decent supporting cast....what would make people think he will win a championship in the second half of his career without some serious help?
you're still a moron
typical Laker fan response... :loser:
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^^^you don't deserve a real response :P
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
at least one half of your statement is correct ;D
honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
Half of my statement? It's a fact...They had a poll in the beginning of last season. They asked all the GMs which player in the NBA they'd choose to build their team around. All 30 picked Kobeas. You're stupid for saying Kobe is going downhill from here...Jordan was just beginning at Kobe's age. Kobe is still young, there is no way he's reached his full potential...Unless he gets seriously injured or something like that, but Kobe is the type of player who works every off-season to better himself...He will amaze...PeACe
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Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
YOU'RE A MORON
besides u being just a blind fan...what is there to prove that im wrong? Kobe's unbelievable year last year? I was partially just fukin with NIK...but at the same time, Kobe doesnt have a many more years. He is still kinda young, but i dont see his game improving. If anything its stayed the same. Last year he didnt step it up. This year will probably be the same. He might improve SLIGHTLY but that will be a result of the team around him improving and Phil being there. Its for sure, he'll never win another championship unless he gets some MAJOR....MAJOR help. If he couldnt even get his team into the playoffs last year....in the prime of his career...with what NIK called at the beginning of the season a decent supporting cast....what would make people think he will win a championship in the second half of his career without some serious help?
you're still a moron
typical Laker fan response... :loser:
WTF are you saying, shithead, I always provide a full, lengthy response...
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
at least one half of your statement is correct ;D
honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
Half of my statement? It's a fact...They had a poll in the beginning of last season. They asked all the GMs which player in the NBA they'd choose to build their team around. All 30 picked Kobeas. You're stupid for saying Kobe is going downhill from here...Jordan was just beginning at Kobe's age. Kobe is still young, there is no way he's reached his full potential...Unless he gets seriously injured or something like that, but Kobe is the type of player who works every off-season to better himself...He will amaze...PeACe
If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful. As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno?
when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
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Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
YOU'RE A MORON
besides u being just a blind fan...what is there to prove that im wrong? Kobe's unbelievable year last year? I was partially just fukin with NIK...but at the same time, Kobe doesnt have a many more years. He is still kinda young, but i dont see his game improving. If anything its stayed the same. Last year he didnt step it up. This year will probably be the same. He might improve SLIGHTLY but that will be a result of the team around him improving and Phil being there. Its for sure, he'll never win another championship unless he gets some MAJOR....MAJOR help. If he couldnt even get his team into the playoffs last year....in the prime of his career...with what NIK called at the beginning of the season a decent supporting cast....what would make people think he will win a championship in the second half of his career without some serious help?
you're still a moron
typical Laker fan response... :loser:
WTF are you saying, shithead, I always provide a full, lengthy response...
lol *hands NIK a tissue*. I didnt mean to hurt your feelings man. Hope this doesnt send u into some spiriling depression ;D Naw, u usually give a real response. But u cant deny that youve givin your share of "youre a moron" responses in the past. And a lot of these Laker fans tend to get real sensitive and emotional when u diss Kobe lol. Like he's their lover....
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If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful.
Are we judging the whole 9 years old career of Kobe or just his last disappointing season? If you look at the whole thing, Kobe has been a fantastic player, averaging 22.4 pts, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.45 spg, plus he was been named 7 times an All-Star, and he has averaged even better stats in 119 NBA PlayOff games. In a contender team, sharing the ball with Shaq. Those numbers alone will have as a consequence that the n.8 Lakers jersey will be retired, one day. Add 3 rings and a half in the mix, and you have a great player, no discussion. I dunno if he's on the same level of Magic, Jordan and Bird, who knows? But for sure he's the best SG in the league right now, and he was been the best one in the last couple of years. Plus he's still 27, so how is it possible to write something like "he has already reached its pinnacle"? Jordan won his first one at 28. C'mon now. C'mon now. Last year it was been a wasted one in Kobe's career, because of a lot of injuries (Kobe has missed 16 games, Odom 18, Grant 13, Divac 67, George 67, not to mention Rudy T), of troubles finding a good coach, and because of the team allowing opponents to score more than 110pts, embarassing. Next year it's the "real" one, with Phil back in L.A., with Bynum and Brown added in the mix, without Atkins, and with less pressure on the team. We will see. But let's wait to judge Kobe's career and let's stop saying he aint a "winner".
As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno? when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
If we need to wait more on Kobe's career to judge it, LeBron's one still has to start!
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If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful.
Are we judging the whole 9 years old career of Kobe or just his last disappointing season? If you look at the whole thing, Kobe has been a fantastic player, averaging 22.4 pts, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.45 spg, plus he was been named 7 times an All-Star, and he has averaged even better stats in 119 NBA PlayOff games. In a contender team, sharing the ball with Shaq. Those numbers alone will have as a consequence that the n.8 Lakers jersey will be retired, one day. Add 3 rings and a half in the mix, and you have a great player, no discussion. I dunno if he's on the same level of Magic, Jordan and Bird, who knows? But for sure he's the best SG in the league right now, and he was been the best one in the last couple of years. Plus he's still 27, so how is it possible to write something like "he has already reached its pinnacle"? Jordan won his first one at 28. C'mon now. C'mon now. Last year it was been a wasted one in Kobe's career, because of a lot of injuries (Kobe has missed 16 games, Odom 18, Grant 13, Divac 67, George 67, not to mention Rudy T), of troubles finding a good coach, and because of the team allowing opponents to score more than 110pts, embarassing. Next year it's the "real" one, with Phil back in L.A., with Bynum and Brown added in the mix, without Atkins, and with less pressure on the team. We will see. But let's wait to judge Kobe's career and let's stop saying he aint a "winner".
As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno? when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
If we need to wait more on Kobe's career to judge it, LeBron's one still has to start!
first off...me saying Kobe's career has reached its pinnacle is based on my assessment of Kobe. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Im not saying that ANYone at 27-28 has already reached or passed their prime. Im saying, i dont see Kobe getting BETTER. He hasnt shown the type of attitude that would allow him to. He's a big fuckin baby. It takes a mature, humble man to understand that theyll have to change their game completely at some point to stay at a top level (for a player who relies so much on athletism). Jordan understood that...i dont see Kobe that way. Yeah, Kobe has been a good player. He has been one of the better players in the league during the last 5 years or so, one of the best....as was Larry Johnson for the first half of his career. How many of you guys even know who the fuck he is now? lol. Yeah he has half a career left ahead of him. But we've had people on here comparing him to Jordan...and saying he is on the same level for a career. If those Laker....i mean, Kobe fans can make a judgement like THAT (insane) on only half a career...then i can say that i dont think he'll improve after this point. He will probably have a better year then last year. But he will never be the winner he was with Shaq...unless they bring him some BIG help like i said. The man just isnt a winner. He's a scorer...and thats it.
As for your Lebron statement. Im not even a Lebron fan. Im just saying i would take a player like Lebron over Kobe anyday to start my team with. Lebrons biggest problem coming into the league was being TOO unselfish. A problem Kobe has never had i guarentee lol. Lebron's game will improve more then likely from this point on. Kobe's probably wont (as he is half done). NIK was arguing it, so i just put up a quote from the most respected Laker of all time.
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first off...me saying Kobe's career has reached its pinnacle is based on my assessment of Kobe. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Im not saying that ANYone at 27-28 has already reached or passed their prime. Im saying, i dont see Kobe getting BETTER. He hasnt shown the type of attitude that would allow him to. He's a big fuckin baby. It takes a mature, humble man to understand that theyll have to change their game completely at some point to stay at a top level (for a player who relies so much on athletism). Jordan understood that...i dont see Kobe that way. Yeah, Kobe has been a good player. He has been one of the better players in the league during the last 5 years or so, one of the best....as was Larry Johnson for the first half of his career. How many of you guys even know who the fuck he is now? lol. Yeah he has half a career left ahead of him. But we've had people on here comparing him to Jordan...and saying he is on the same level for a career. If those Laker....i mean, Kobe fans can make a judgement like THAT (insane) on only half a career...then i can say that i dont think he'll improve after this point. He will probably have a better year then last year. But he will never be the winner he was with Shaq...unless they bring him some BIG help like i said. The man just isnt a winner. He's a scorer...and thats it.
Man i'm a die-hard Laker fan but, seriously speaking, i'll never put Kobe on the same planet of Magic, just to give you an example. Magic was "Magic" since his NCAA days. He was the leader of every team he has played in, even when he plays pool or poker or chess, he's the leader. Them Lakers were totally built around the MAN Magic and the PLAYER Magic. He was the reason why them Lakers will be remembered forever as the "Showtime" team. Once i've said that, well.. i will say the same about Jordan. Jordan was insane. Too much for the 27-years old Kobe. But i aint Nostradamus: i dont know if Kobe has reached his full potential yet, i'm curious to see that. I will see that. For sure. I wanna know if he's got the Magic in him, like my avatar says. But i aint judging his career from 1 year. Last year the first half of Kobe's career (the Shaq-era with 3 rings and a half) ended, and a new one (the let's rebuilt a contender team around Kobe) started. It's too early to judge the 2nd one. And it's obvious that the 2nd one will determine if he's got the Magic in him.
As for your Lebron statement. Im not even a Lebron fan. Im just saying i would take a player like Lebron over Kobe anyday to start my team with. Lebrons biggest problem coming into the league was being TOO unselfish. A problem Kobe has never had i guarentee lol. Lebron's game will improve more then likely from this point on. Kobe's probably wont (as he is half done). NIK was arguing it, so i just put up a quote from the most respected Laker of all time.
Magic didnt say LeBron is right now better than Kobe, or that he'd rather select LeBron over Kobe to start a franchise. Just to be precise. He said LeBron entered the League being already a "real" NBA player, with an NBA body, with an NBA mentality, with the charisma a champion needs to be respected by the media. He's special, i do agree. But i'd take Kobe over him all day all night, cause i'm a Laker fan, and cause i think Kobe is a better SG who already proved in the first half of his career he's a winner.
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And a lot of these Laker fans tend to get real sensitive and emotional when u diss Kobe lol. Like he's their lover....
that's b/c you're a moron/hater & give these cliche rips on kobe "he doesn't pass the ball".."kobe is selfish" man,shut the fuck up..he's a 3 time champion & you're drinking that haterrade..stop acting like a bitch..& kobe & jordan have won 3 straight championships..so i think is cool to mention him with jordan
And it's just like a kobe hater to judge him on what happend Last season..that's a bitch move...
It's hard to make ....chucky atkins,chris migm & all those other losers better...every team needs talent to win...some thing the lakers don't have do to the salary cap & we never sign anny young talent b/c of shaqs salary..so we just got to wait until the lakers have some money to spend to get talented players
Right now we could only depend on a coach coaching the lakers the right way (phil jax)...& players improving...& hopefully lamar will play better now that he's moving back to SF & some help from phil
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first off...me saying Kobe's career has reached its pinnacle is based on my assessment of Kobe. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Im not saying that ANYone at 27-28 has already reached or passed their prime. Im saying, i dont see Kobe getting BETTER. He hasnt shown the type of attitude that would allow him to. He's a big fuckin baby. It takes a mature, humble man to understand that theyll have to change their game completely at some point to stay at a top level (for a player who relies so much on athletism). Jordan understood that...i dont see Kobe that way. Yeah, Kobe has been a good player. He has been one of the better players in the league during the last 5 years or so, one of the best....as was Larry Johnson for the first half of his career. How many of you guys even know who the fuck he is now? lol. Yeah he has half a career left ahead of him. But we've had people on here comparing him to Jordan...and saying he is on the same level for a career. If those Laker....i mean, Kobe fans can make a judgement like THAT (insane) on only half a career...then i can say that i dont think he'll improve after this point. He will probably have a better year then last year. But he will never be the winner he was with Shaq...unless they bring him some BIG help like i said. The man just isnt a winner. He's a scorer...and thats it.
Man i'm a die-hard Laker fan but, seriously speaking, i'll never put Kobe on the same planet of Magic, just to give you an example. Magic was "Magic" since his NCAA days. He was the leader of every team he has played in, even when he plays pool or poker or chess, he's the leader. Them Lakers were totally built around the MAN Magic and the PLAYER Magic. He was the reason why them Lakers will be remembered forever as the "Showtime" team. Once i've said that, well.. i will say the same about Jordan. Jordan was insane. Too much for the 27-years old Kobe. But i aint Nostradamus: i dont know if Kobe has reached his full potential yet, i'm curious to see that. I will see that. For sure. I wanna know if he's got the Magic in him, like my avatar says. But i aint judging his career from 1 year. Last year the first half of Kobe's career (the Shaq-era with 3 rings and a half) ended, and a new one (the let's rebuilt a contender team around Kobe) started. It's too early to judge the 2nd one. And it's obvious that the 2nd one will determine if he's got the Magic in him.
As for your Lebron statement. Im not even a Lebron fan. Im just saying i would take a player like Lebron over Kobe anyday to start my team with. Lebrons biggest problem coming into the league was being TOO unselfish. A problem Kobe has never had i guarentee lol. Lebron's game will improve more then likely from this point on. Kobe's probably wont (as he is half done). NIK was arguing it, so i just put up a quote from the most respected Laker of all time.
Magic didnt say LeBron is right now better than Kobe, or that he'd rather select LeBron over Kobe to start a franchise. Just to be precise. He said LeBron entered the League being already a "real" NBA player, with an NBA body, with an NBA mentality, with the charisma a champion needs to be respected by the media. He's special, i do agree. But i'd take Kobe over him all day all night, cause i'm a Laker fan, and cause i think Kobe is a better SG who already proved in the first half of his career he's a winner.
no, Magic didnt say he was better right NOW. But he is also like 8 yrs younger and was a contender for MVP last year. Kobe in his first two years looked like a high school kid playing in the NBA.
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And a lot of these Laker fans tend to get real sensitive and emotional when u diss Kobe lol. Like he's their lover....
that's b/c you're a moron/hater & give these cliche rips on kobe "he doesn't pass the ball".."kobe is selfish" man,shut the fuck up..he's a 3 time champion & you're drinking that haterrade..stop acting like a bitch..& kobe & jordan have won 3 straight championships..so i think is cool to mention him with jordan
And it's just like a kobe hater to judge him on what happend Last season..that's a bitch move...
It's hard to make ....chucky atkins,chris migm & all those other losers better...every team needs talent to win...some thing the lakers don't have do to the salary cap & we never sign anny young talent b/c of shaqs salary..so we just got to wait until the lakers have some money to spend to get talented players
Right now we could only depend on a coach coaching the lakers the right way (phil jax)...& players improving...& hopefully lamar will play better now that he's moving back to SF & some help from phil
you know how long ive been on here saying the same things about Kobe? Im not some newbie on here just going with the flow. Ive been saying these same things about Kobe for years and NIK or Jake could tell u that. Im not a "kobe hater". I actually like his game. Its his attitude that will hold him back from EVER being at a Jordan/Magic or any other level like that. You guys can be really fuckin retarded sometimes. Just like that ComptonCyco guy with his Eiht shit. I dont say Kobe is a bad player. I dont even pretend that he isnt one of the top players in the league. But you dickriders cant admit ANYthing that is wrong with him. Like he's perfect lol. Cmon, get off his nuts. At least NIK has at times critisized the Lakers for shit...not often, but he has done it. It would help your dickriding image if youd be honest about this shit too...
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first off...me saying Kobe's career has reached its pinnacle is based on my assessment of Kobe. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Im not saying that ANYone at 27-28 has already reached or passed their prime. Im saying, i dont see Kobe getting BETTER. He hasnt shown the type of attitude that would allow him to. He's a big fuckin baby. It takes a mature, humble man to understand that theyll have to change their game completely at some point to stay at a top level (for a player who relies so much on athletism). Jordan understood that...i dont see Kobe that way. Yeah, Kobe has been a good player. He has been one of the better players in the league during the last 5 years or so, one of the best....as was Larry Johnson for the first half of his career. How many of you guys even know who the fuck he is now? lol. Yeah he has half a career left ahead of him. But we've had people on here comparing him to Jordan...and saying he is on the same level for a career. If those Laker....i mean, Kobe fans can make a judgement like THAT (insane) on only half a career...then i can say that i dont think he'll improve after this point. He will probably have a better year then last year. But he will never be the winner he was with Shaq...unless they bring him some BIG help like i said. The man just isnt a winner. He's a scorer...and thats it.
Man i'm a die-hard Laker fan but, seriously speaking, i'll never put Kobe on the same planet of Magic, just to give you an example. Magic was "Magic" since his NCAA days. He was the leader of every team he has played in, even when he plays pool or poker or chess, he's the leader. Them Lakers were totally built around the MAN Magic and the PLAYER Magic. He was the reason why them Lakers will be remembered forever as the "Showtime" team. Once i've said that, well.. i will say the same about Jordan. Jordan was insane. Too much for the 27-years old Kobe. But i aint Nostradamus: i dont know if Kobe has reached his full potential yet, i'm curious to see that. I will see that. For sure. I wanna know if he's got the Magic in him, like my avatar says. But i aint judging his career from 1 year. Last year the first half of Kobe's career (the Shaq-era with 3 rings and a half) ended, and a new one (the let's rebuilt a contender team around Kobe) started. It's too early to judge the 2nd one. And it's obvious that the 2nd one will determine if he's got the Magic in him.
As for your Lebron statement. Im not even a Lebron fan. Im just saying i would take a player like Lebron over Kobe anyday to start my team with. Lebrons biggest problem coming into the league was being TOO unselfish. A problem Kobe has never had i guarentee lol. Lebron's game will improve more then likely from this point on. Kobe's probably wont (as he is half done). NIK was arguing it, so i just put up a quote from the most respected Laker of all time.
Magic didnt say LeBron is right now better than Kobe, or that he'd rather select LeBron over Kobe to start a franchise. Just to be precise. He said LeBron entered the League being already a "real" NBA player, with an NBA body, with an NBA mentality, with the charisma a champion needs to be respected by the media. He's special, i do agree. But i'd take Kobe over him all day all night, cause i'm a Laker fan, and cause i think Kobe is a better SG who already proved in the first half of his career he's a winner.
I'm a die hard Laker fan as well and I agree with ACB's post 100%.
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[ Its his attitude that will hold him back from EVER being at a Jordan/Magic or any other level like that.
kobe sacrifice his game for the better of the team when we were wining championships..wich is why he's a 3 time champion...
He passed the ball Last season like he always does & avg a career high in assist...he should of avg more but his teammates suck ass...
All this cliche rips on kobe are so fucking retarded....kobe wants to be the best ever..& he's not going to allowed his "attitude" to stop that
you people are fucking retarded
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
at least one half of your statement is correct ;D
honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
Half of my statement? It's a fact...They had a poll in the beginning of last season. They asked all the GMs which player in the NBA they'd choose to build their team around. All 30 picked Kobeas. You're stupid for saying Kobe is going downhill from here...Jordan was just beginning at Kobe's age. Kobe is still young, there is no way he's reached his full potential...Unless he gets seriously injured or something like that, but Kobe is the type of player who works every off-season to better himself...He will amaze...PeACe
If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful. As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno?
when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
No kidding, dumbass. It's obvious that LeBron developed at an earlier age than Kobe, that's all Magic was saying...How many fucking times have we heard Magic saying Kobe is the best player in the league by far, and praising Kobe as one of the greatests...So if you wanna bring Magic into this, you've just killed your whole argument by yourself...LeBron is just special as in he got to an all-star level right off the bat (being pushed on an extremely whack team, of course), but Kobe hss still accomplished so much more and is on a whole other level...Anyone who knows anything will tell you the same.
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If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful.
Are we judging the whole 9 years old career of Kobe or just his last disappointing season? If you look at the whole thing, Kobe has been a fantastic player, averaging 22.4 pts, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.45 spg, plus he was been named 7 times an All-Star, and he has averaged even better stats in 119 NBA PlayOff games. In a contender team, sharing the ball with Shaq. Those numbers alone will have as a consequence that the n.8 Lakers jersey will be retired, one day. Add 3 rings and a half in the mix, and you have a great player, no discussion. I dunno if he's on the same level of Magic, Jordan and Bird, who knows? But for sure he's the best SG in the league right now, and he was been the best one in the last couple of years. Plus he's still 27, so how is it possible to write something like "he has already reached its pinnacle"? Jordan won his first one at 28. C'mon now. C'mon now. Last year it was been a wasted one in Kobe's career, because of a lot of injuries (Kobe has missed 16 games, Odom 18, Grant 13, Divac 67, George 67, not to mention Rudy T), of troubles finding a good coach, and because of the team allowing opponents to score more than 110pts, embarassing. Next year it's the "real" one, with Phil back in L.A., with Bynum and Brown added in the mix, without Atkins, and with less pressure on the team. We will see. But let's wait to judge Kobe's career and let's stop saying he aint a "winner".
As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno? when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
If we need to wait more on Kobe's career to judge it, LeBron's one still has to start!
first off...me saying Kobe's career has reached its pinnacle is based on my assessment of Kobe. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Im not saying that ANYone at 27-28 has already reached or passed their prime. Im saying, i dont see Kobe getting BETTER. He hasnt shown the type of attitude that would allow him to. He's a big fuckin baby. It takes a mature, humble man to understand that theyll have to change their game completely at some point to stay at a top level (for a player who relies so much on athletism). Jordan understood that...i dont see Kobe that way. Yeah, Kobe has been a good player. He has been one of the better players in the league during the last 5 years or so, one of the best....as was Larry Johnson for the first half of his career. How many of you guys even know who the fuck he is now? lol. Yeah he has half a career left ahead of him. But we've had people on here comparing him to Jordan...and saying he is on the same level for a career. If those Laker....i mean, Kobe fans can make a judgement like THAT (insane) on only half a career...then i can say that i dont think he'll improve after this point. He will probably have a better year then last year. But he will never be the winner he was with Shaq...unless they bring him some BIG help like i said. The man just isnt a winner. He's a scorer...and thats it.
As for your Lebron statement. Im not even a Lebron fan. Im just saying i would take a player like Lebron over Kobe anyday to start my team with. Lebrons biggest problem coming into the league was being TOO unselfish. A problem Kobe has never had i guarentee lol. Lebron's game will improve more then likely from this point on. Kobe's probably wont (as he is half done). NIK was arguing it, so i just put up a quote from the most respected Laker of all time.
LMAO, you don't make sense...First of all, stop comparing Kobe Bryant to Larry Johnson like an idiotic moron. Second of all, you act like you know Kobe's attitude so well. You don't. He's only shown improvement throughout the years, and every year he's worked to better himself in a drastic way during the off-season. Your statements hold no evidence, you have nothing to back what you say. Just stop making dumb predictions. :-X
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How the LAKERS have improved in many different areas during the offseason…
Point Guard: Aaron McKie is easily an improvement over Chucky Atkins. McKie is actually a nice fit for the offense and can provide defense as well, something Atkins couldn’t do.
Shooting Guard: Kobe Bryant will improve his game, as have the players/system around him.
Small Forward: Lamar Odom is an improvement at the small forward position. Caron Butler had a nice season with the Lakers, but Odom is just closer to an all-star and is more of an impact player.
Power Forward: Kwame Brown might not be a better player than Lamar Odom, but this is definitely an improvement at the power forward position for the Lakers, seeing as Odom was playing out of his natural position and Kwame Brown is a natural power forward/center.
Center: Chris Mihm is the same center as last year, but whos to say he will be the same player under Phil Jackson? Remember, Phil is said to like Mihm’s game and potential…And let's not forget Kareem is up in the mix…
Coach: It’s as simple as 2 words…Phil Jackson.
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^^^Are Center position is garbage..let's cross are fingers A.Bynum makes the impact A.Stoudmire made in his rookie season
And K.Brown Aint shit right now but it's cool to have a 6'11 Athletic PF & hopefully phil jax could coach him up
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^^^Are Center position is garbage..let's cross are fingers A.Bynum makes the impact A.Stoudmire made in his rookie season
And K.Brown Aint shit right now but it's cool to have a 6'11 PF & hopefully phil jax could coach him up
Also remember that Divac can still sign with the Lakers...And Kwame Brown will be switching from power forward to center from time to time to balance things out...The Lakers center position, while not one of the stronger in the league, will be able to compete. Remember, Luc Longley and Will Perdue. ;)
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no, Magic didnt say he was better right NOW. But he is also like 8 yrs younger and was a contender for MVP last year. Kobe in his first two years looked like a high school kid playing in the NBA.
He was. Expecially since he started as a backup SG/SF. You gotta understand that one thing is to be selected with the #1 pick, with Nike already giving you billions before the NBA season begins, with the media loving you, and with Cleveland ready to completely build their team around you, making you "the King", and a totally different thing is to enter the NBA the way Kobe did, being selected with the #13 pick, then being traded to the Lakers, starting as a backup SG with Eddie Jones, the fan fav player, as the starter, and with the team completely built around Shaq. They are two completely different scenario's, you can't compare them. Kobe started to have good minutage only after Lakers traded Eddie Jones for Rice! How can you compare that scenario with LeBron's one where he was the most publicized player in the NBA...... before he joined the NBA? For sure LeBron is "special", i do agree with Magic. But he had the red carpet ready when he entered the NBA, and he still gotta prove he's a leader.
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first off...me saying Kobe's career has reached its pinnacle is based on my assessment of Kobe. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Im not saying that ANYone at 27-28 has already reached or passed their prime. Im saying, i dont see Kobe getting BETTER. He hasnt shown the type of attitude that would allow him to. He's a big fuckin baby. It takes a mature, humble man to understand that theyll have to change their game completely at some point to stay at a top level (for a player who relies so much on athletism). Jordan understood that...i dont see Kobe that way. Yeah, Kobe has been a good player. He has been one of the better players in the league during the last 5 years or so, one of the best....as was Larry Johnson for the first half of his career. How many of you guys even know who the fuck he is now? lol. Yeah he has half a career left ahead of him. But we've had people on here comparing him to Jordan...and saying he is on the same level for a career. If those Laker....i mean, Kobe fans can make a judgement like THAT (insane) on only half a career...then i can say that i dont think he'll improve after this point. He will probably have a better year then last year. But he will never be the winner he was with Shaq...unless they bring him some BIG help like i said. The man just isnt a winner. He's a scorer...and thats it.
Man i'm a die-hard Laker fan but, seriously speaking, i'll never put Kobe on the same planet of Magic, just to give you an example. Magic was "Magic" since his NCAA days. He was the leader of every team he has played in, even when he plays pool or poker or chess, he's the leader. Them Lakers were totally built around the MAN Magic and the PLAYER Magic. He was the reason why them Lakers will be remembered forever as the "Showtime" team. Once i've said that, well.. i will say the same about Jordan. Jordan was insane. Too much for the 27-years old Kobe. But i aint Nostradamus: i dont know if Kobe has reached his full potential yet, i'm curious to see that. I will see that. For sure. I wanna know if he's got the Magic in him, like my avatar says. But i aint judging his career from 1 year. Last year the first half of Kobe's career (the Shaq-era with 3 rings and a half) ended, and a new one (the let's rebuilt a contender team around Kobe) started. It's too early to judge the 2nd one. And it's obvious that the 2nd one will determine if he's got the Magic in him.
As for your Lebron statement. Im not even a Lebron fan. Im just saying i would take a player like Lebron over Kobe anyday to start my team with. Lebrons biggest problem coming into the league was being TOO unselfish. A problem Kobe has never had i guarentee lol. Lebron's game will improve more then likely from this point on. Kobe's probably wont (as he is half done). NIK was arguing it, so i just put up a quote from the most respected Laker of all time.
Magic didnt say LeBron is right now better than Kobe, or that he'd rather select LeBron over Kobe to start a franchise. Just to be precise. He said LeBron entered the League being already a "real" NBA player, with an NBA body, with an NBA mentality, with the charisma a champion needs to be respected by the media. He's special, i do agree. But i'd take Kobe over him all day all night, cause i'm a Laker fan, and cause i think Kobe is a better SG who already proved in the first half of his career he's a winner.
I'm a die hard Laker fan as well and I agree with ACB's post 100%.
lol funny. Because if you saw the show that i saw when Magic said what he said...."just to be precise" he didnt even go in depth like that on the subject. So why would ACB put words in his mouth and at the same time say "just to be precise"? All he said was that players, even Kobe and Garnett arent ready to enter the league from high school as players OR men. Then said, "except Lebron, he's special...". That was it.
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[ Its his attitude that will hold him back from EVER being at a Jordan/Magic or any other level like that.
kobe sacrifice his game for the better of the team when we were wining championships..wich is why he's a 3 time champion...
He passed the ball Last season like he always does & avg a career high in assist...he should of avg more but his teammates suck ass...
All this cliche rips on kobe are so fucking retarded....kobe wants to be the best ever..& he's not going to allowed his "attitude" to stop that
you people are fucking retarded
another stupid Laker fan. i didnt even mention his passing, and youre already trying to defend it. In order for you to immediatly bring that up, means you know its a problem lol. How much basketball have you actually played in your life? lol. Numbers mean absolutely shit when it comes to being a leader. Kobe scoring a lot of points, and getting assists doest mean if he cant motivate his teammates to win. Ive played with and against a million players that score a lot, and even rack up a lot of assists...look like all-stars themselves, then lose. That meant that they were a good player, with average players around them, and who didnt understand how to push their team over the top. Its deeper then just "uhhh....Kobe has assists...." lol. Figure it out man...
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
at least one half of your statement is correct ;D
honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
Half of my statement? It's a fact...They had a poll in the beginning of last season. They asked all the GMs which player in the NBA they'd choose to build their team around. All 30 picked Kobeas. You're stupid for saying Kobe is going downhill from here...Jordan was just beginning at Kobe's age. Kobe is still young, there is no way he's reached his full potential...Unless he gets seriously injured or something like that, but Kobe is the type of player who works every off-season to better himself...He will amaze...PeACe
If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful. As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno?
when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
No kidding, dumbass. It's obvious that LeBron developed at an earlier age than Kobe, that's all Magic was saying...How many fucking times have we heard Magic saying Kobe is the best player in the league by far, and praising Kobe as one of the greatests...So if you wanna bring Magic into this, you've just killed your whole argument by yourself...LeBron is just special as in he got to an all-star level right off the bat (being pushed on an extremely whack team, of course), but Kobe hss still accomplished so much more and is on a whole other level...Anyone who knows anything will tell you the same.
Magic is a Laker...i think you know that. Magic will support his player first. So its a much bigger deal for Magic to put someone on a higher platform once, then it would be for him to put Kobe on it 100 times. If Kobe was traded tomorrow for Lebron, Magic would turn around and say Lebron is the best player in the league. Its common sense. Lebron got "pushed" to an all star level how? You cant deny how good he is. Kobe was on just as wack a team, so it shoulda been easy for him to shine also. Lebron gets a lot of attention because in a league that seems to embrace the selfish, flashy, ballhog players....Lebron shined while being unselfish. Kobe could learn from him....
like i said, im not even a Lebron fan...also, as far as what Kobe has accomplished....not that much without Shaq.
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If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful.
Are we judging the whole 9 years old career of Kobe or just his last disappointing season? If you look at the whole thing, Kobe has been a fantastic player, averaging 22.4 pts, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.45 spg, plus he was been named 7 times an All-Star, and he has averaged even better stats in 119 NBA PlayOff games. In a contender team, sharing the ball with Shaq. Those numbers alone will have as a consequence that the n.8 Lakers jersey will be retired, one day. Add 3 rings and a half in the mix, and you have a great player, no discussion. I dunno if he's on the same level of Magic, Jordan and Bird, who knows? But for sure he's the best SG in the league right now, and he was been the best one in the last couple of years. Plus he's still 27, so how is it possible to write something like "he has already reached its pinnacle"? Jordan won his first one at 28. C'mon now. C'mon now. Last year it was been a wasted one in Kobe's career, because of a lot of injuries (Kobe has missed 16 games, Odom 18, Grant 13, Divac 67, George 67, not to mention Rudy T), of troubles finding a good coach, and because of the team allowing opponents to score more than 110pts, embarassing. Next year it's the "real" one, with Phil back in L.A., with Bynum and Brown added in the mix, without Atkins, and with less pressure on the team. We will see. But let's wait to judge Kobe's career and let's stop saying he aint a "winner".
As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno? when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
If we need to wait more on Kobe's career to judge it, LeBron's one still has to start!
first off...me saying Kobe's career has reached its pinnacle is based on my assessment of Kobe. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Im not saying that ANYone at 27-28 has already reached or passed their prime. Im saying, i dont see Kobe getting BETTER. He hasnt shown the type of attitude that would allow him to. He's a big fuckin baby. It takes a mature, humble man to understand that theyll have to change their game completely at some point to stay at a top level (for a player who relies so much on athletism). Jordan understood that...i dont see Kobe that way. Yeah, Kobe has been a good player. He has been one of the better players in the league during the last 5 years or so, one of the best....as was Larry Johnson for the first half of his career. How many of you guys even know who the fuck he is now? lol. Yeah he has half a career left ahead of him. But we've had people on here comparing him to Jordan...and saying he is on the same level for a career. If those Laker....i mean, Kobe fans can make a judgement like THAT (insane) on only half a career...then i can say that i dont think he'll improve after this point. He will probably have a better year then last year. But he will never be the winner he was with Shaq...unless they bring him some BIG help like i said. The man just isnt a winner. He's a scorer...and thats it.
As for your Lebron statement. Im not even a Lebron fan. Im just saying i would take a player like Lebron over Kobe anyday to start my team with. Lebrons biggest problem coming into the league was being TOO unselfish. A problem Kobe has never had i guarentee lol. Lebron's game will improve more then likely from this point on. Kobe's probably wont (as he is half done). NIK was arguing it, so i just put up a quote from the most respected Laker of all time.
LMAO, you don't make sense...First of all, stop comparing Kobe Bryant to Larry Johnson like an idiotic moron. Second of all, you act like you know Kobe's attitude so well. You don't. He's only shown improvement throughout the years, and every year he's worked to better himself in a drastic way during the off-season. Your statements hold no evidence, you have nothing to back what you say. Just stop making dumb predictions. :-X
comparing him to Larry Johnson because you guys tell me i cant predict that Kobe will fall off later in his career, but you can predict that he'll be as great as Jordan by the end of his career. Hypocrits. Another example of your guys hypocracy...i only claim to know his attitude as much as you guys do, only in the opposite. You guys always claim he is this unselfish team player who wants to win first, shine second. Which is obviously an assessment of his attitude. Then when i say he is a selfish, non team player who wants to shine first, win second....you say that i cant possibly know his attitude lol. If you guys wanna call me a Kobe hater, thats fine...but at least admit how much of a Kobe dickrider you guys are lol
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no, Magic didnt say he was better right NOW. But he is also like 8 yrs younger and was a contender for MVP last year. Kobe in his first two years looked like a high school kid playing in the NBA.
He was. Expecially since he started as a backup SG/SF. You gotta understand that one thing is to be selected with the #1 pick, with Nike already giving you billions before the NBA season begins, with the media loving you, and with Cleveland ready to completely build their team around you, making you "the King", and a totally different thing is to enter the NBA the way Kobe did, being selected with the #13 pick, then being traded to the Lakers, starting as a backup SG with Eddie Jones, the fan fav player, as the starter, and with the team completely built around Shaq. They are two completely different scenario's, you can't compare them. Kobe started to have good minutage only after Lakers traded Eddie Jones for Rice! How can you compare that scenario with LeBron's one where he was the most publicized player in the NBA...... before he joined the NBA? For sure LeBron is "special", i do agree with Magic. But he had the red carpet ready when he entered the NBA, and he still gotta prove he's a leader.
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes? I dont think he would have been ready in anyway. He wasnt mature enough. To me he has always been just that spoiled little kid thats been handed everything. Youre only showing the possitives for Lebron and negatives for Kobe to support your argument. Not showing how much more pressure Lebron was under to perform then Kobe. If Kobe was a bust, then like u said....he was only a #13 pick and a backup behind a fan favorite anyways. If Lebron failed, it would be Clevelands immediate future out the window. Alot of pressure for a young kid to step into the NBA and instantly be the leader of a team. Kobe could hardly handle that last year lol. Let alone his rookie year.
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[/unbiased Basketball fan ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
I don't know. I mean i'm a Laker fan, and i only watch Lakers games, so i can't say a lot about LeBron, cause i've seen him just a pair of times in full games. But i know Kobe. I do since i'm Italian and my father used to be a referee in our italian league. He knew Kobe's father (OT: good luck coaching the Sparks), and he knew Kobe too, not as a player, but as a little kid. He was involved in the Kobe's-father-buying-the-Milan-basketball-team operation 3-4 years ago, so he's still in contact with him. Somehow Kobe is special to me. My father tells me about when he was in Reggio Emilia being the referee of a local match (Kobe's father played for Reggio Emilia), and Kobe, who was just a kid, used to hit 3pts during half time, making the crowd jump off their seats screaming his name. He was like the mascotte of the team. He looked 15 years old, lol, but he was like 6-7. That's why i've always liked Kobe, since his first day in the NBA. Add the fact that he speaks fluent in Italian, and you have my "hero". But honestly i dont think he was ready to play in the NBA. He was like Sasha Vujacic, another guard i know who grew up in Italy. He had skills, but he didnt have an NBA mentality and he wasnt a "basketball" player enought to be ready for a contender team. Just like Sasha. Personally i think Kobe gotta thank a lot of people: Tex Winter, who made him an impact SG player, Eddie Jones, who helped him in his early years, Ron Harper and Brian Shaw, who were like fathers for him (expecially when he wasnt on good terms with his real one), Jerry West, for trading Eddie Jones and giving Kobe the needed spootlight, Fisher, Fox, Horry... all those player who are real men first, then great players later. You know what i mean? He wasnt ready for the NBA yet, but those players plus Phil Jackson made him what he is today. They changed him from Tracy McGrady to 3 and a half titles. LeBron? LeBron looks like he's 30. Not only phisical, but also because he looks to be a mature man, who doesnt need all the players/men who helped Kobe. It's like if LeBron has seen a VHS of Kobe's career, and he already knows what to do and how to do it. He's Kobe when he finished his developing process. That's where i do agree with Magic. Kobe wasnt ready, LeBron is. But Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker, something Lebron will probably never have. And Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker when the Lakers were missing him to be a contender team. Lebron i dont know if he'll be in a team as strong as the 3peat Lakers. That's why people will always remember Kobe for the 3 rings. That's why i still prefeer Kobe. That's why Kobe is a champion, and LeBron is still a "baby". Cause no matter what, it's all about them rings. And Kobe, helped by all those people surrounding him, was been the main reason why the Lakers won 3 rings (no Kobe no rings! Somebody should remember it to Shaq!).
Youre only showing the possitives for Lebron and negatives for Kobe to support your argument. Not showing how much more pressure Lebron was under to perform then Kobe. If Kobe was a bust, then like u said....he was only a #13 pick and a backup behind a fan favorite anyways. If Lebron failed, it would be Clevelands immediate future out the window. Alot of pressure for a young kid to step into the NBA and instantly be the leader of a team. Kobe could hardly handle that last year lol. Let alone his rookie year.
Yeah LeBron is coming out pretty well, i can't deny it. I dont hate on him, I'm simply a Laker fan who supports Kobe more, obviously.
[unbiased Basketball fan OFF]
[/Laker fan mode ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
First of all let me say that Kobe averaged 15.5 mins in his first NBA season, and 26.0 in his second.
Let's make a comparision between Kobe and Lebron, by calculating their rookie stats per 40 mins.
Kobe Bryant, 18 years old, averaged 19.5 points, 4.8 rebs, 3.3 assists and 1.8 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 19 years old, averaged 21.2 points, 5.5 rebs, 6.0 assists and 1.7 steals in 40 minutes.
Honestly, they aint "so" different, considering Kobe was a kid in a contender team, while LeBron was the Cavs. And that Kobe was 18 years old in a period where there were probably just like 3-4 other players "that" young in the league. Now it's all about HS players, you know, it's a totally different scenario!
Btw it's even closer in their second years..
Kobe Bryant, 19 years old, averaged 23.7 points, 4.7 rebs, 3.9 assists and 1.4 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 20 years old, averaged 25.7 points, 6.9 rebs, 6.8 assists and 2.1 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron's stats are better, but that's partially because he didnt have Shaq to share the ball with.
Kobe took his time to blow in the league as the best SG in the game. Something LeBron still has to do. 8)
[/Laker fan mode OFF]
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[/unbiased Basketball fan ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
I don't know. I mean i'm a Laker fan, and i only watch Lakers games, so i can't say a lot about LeBron, cause i've seen him just a pair of times in full games. But i know Kobe. I do since i'm Italian and my father used to be a referee in our italian league. He knew Kobe's father (OT: good luck coaching the Sparks), and he knew Kobe too, not as a player, but as a little kid. He was involved in the Kobe's-father-buying-the-Milan-basketball-team operation 3-4 years ago, so he's still in contact with him. Somehow Kobe is special to me. My father tells me about when he was in Reggio Emilia being the referee of a local match (Kobe's father played for Reggio Emilia), and Kobe, who was just a kid, used to hit 3pts during half time, making the crowd jump off their seats screaming his name. He was like the mascotte of the team. He looked 15 years old, lol, but he was like 6-7. That's why i've always liked Kobe, since his first day in the NBA. Add the fact that he speaks fluent in Italian, and you have my "hero". But honestly i dont think he was ready to play in the NBA. He was like Sasha Vujacic, another guard i know who grew up in Italy. He had skills, but he didnt have an NBA mentality and he wasnt a "basketball" player enought to be ready for a contender team. Just like Sasha. Personally i think Kobe gotta thank a lot of people: Tex Winter, who made him an impact SG player, Eddie Jones, who helped him in his early years, Ron Harper and Brian Shaw, who were like fathers for him (expecially when he wasnt on good terms with his real one), Jerry West, for trading Eddie Jones and giving Kobe the needed spootlight, Fisher, Fox, Horry... all those player who are real men first, then great players later. You know what i mean? He wasnt ready for the NBA yet, but those players plus Phil Jackson made him what he is today. They changed him from Tracy McGrady to 3 and a half titles. LeBron? LeBron looks like he's 30. Not only phisical, but also because he looks to be a mature man, who doesnt need all the players/men who helped Kobe. It's like if LeBron has seen a VHS of Kobe's career, and he already knows what to do and how to do it. He's Kobe when he finished his developing process. That's where i do agree with Magic. Kobe wasnt ready, LeBron is. But Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker, something Lebron will probably never have. And Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker when the Lakers were missing him to be a contender team. Lebron i dont know if he'll be in a team as strong as the 3peat Lakers. That's why people will always remember Kobe for the 3 rings. That's why i still prefeer Kobe. That's why Kobe is a champion, and LeBron is still a "baby". Cause no matter what, it's all about them rings. And Kobe, helped by all those people surrounding him, was been the main reason why the Lakers won 3 rings (no Kobe no rings! Somebody should remember it to Shaq!).
Youre only showing the possitives for Lebron and negatives for Kobe to support your argument. Not showing how much more pressure Lebron was under to perform then Kobe. If Kobe was a bust, then like u said....he was only a #13 pick and a backup behind a fan favorite anyways. If Lebron failed, it would be Clevelands immediate future out the window. Alot of pressure for a young kid to step into the NBA and instantly be the leader of a team. Kobe could hardly handle that last year lol. Let alone his rookie year.
Yeah LeBron is coming out pretty well, i can't deny it. I dont hate on him, I'm simply a Laker fan who supports Kobe more, obviously.
[unbiased Basketball fan OFF]
[/Laker fan mode ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
First of all let me say that Kobe averaged 15.5 mins in his first NBA season, and 26.0 in his second.
Let's make a comparision between Kobe and Lebron, by calculating their rookie stats per 40 mins.
Kobe Bryant, 18 years old, averaged 19.5 points, 4.8 rebs, 3.3 assists and 1.8 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 19 years old, averaged 21.2 points, 5.5 rebs, 6.0 assists and 1.7 steals in 40 minutes.
Honestly, they aint "so" different, considering Kobe was a kid in a contender team, while LeBron was the Cavs. And that Kobe was 18 years old in a period where there were probably just like 3-4 other players "that" young in the league. Now it's all about HS players, you know, it's a totally different scenario!
Btw it's even closer in their second years..
Kobe Bryant, 19 years old, averaged 23.7 points, 4.7 rebs, 3.9 assists and 1.4 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 20 years old, averaged 25.7 points, 6.9 rebs, 6.8 assists and 2.1 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron's stats are better, but that's partially because he didnt have Shaq to share the ball with.
Kobe took his time to blow in the league as the best SG in the game. Something LeBron still has to do. 8)
[/Laker fan mode OFF]
for the first half of your post....you might be right, no Kobe...no rings. But at the same time, no Shaq...no playoffs.
for the second half, this is where the problem comes into play when i argue with all these Laker fans. Somewhere along the line they seem to have gotten the idea that stats make u great. they dont. leading your team makes u great. if stats are how we judge greatness...then Magic is only the second greatest passer ever. Id put him at first, but the stats say Stockton. stats are great for basketball cards and ESPN "Did you knows" but they dont show who is really great or who is a real leader for their team. What im saying about Kobe is that he couldnt have made Cleveland a legitimate team like Lebron did this fast in his career. Kobe during his first couple years showed talent, but definetely....DEFINETELY not the ability to lead. And last year, after how many years in the league...things were the same. He didnt lead. He got his stats...and thats it. Thats not greatness. Lebron honestly IMO did a better job LEADING his team last year then Kobe did his. And Lebron still has some work to do on his leadership skills. So where does that leave Kobe? This whole argument was about who u would take to start your franchise from this point on. I said id take Lebron cus his upside is FAR higher then Kobe's....from THIS point on. Lebron still has a ton of room to improve and he was an MVP candidate last year. Its rare that many players improve during the second half of their career and typically its big men if anything. So other then being a Kobe fan, how do people not see that he falls into the same category. Yeah, he COULD improve. Im not saying its impossible. Im saying i dont think his improvement (if any) would be so drastic that theyll win another championship without some SERIOUS help. Like it or not, he won those rings WITH Shaq. Shaq has gone to the finals with the Lakers and the Magic and Miami was in good position to last year. Kobe still has to prove he can even make the playoffs without Shaq. To think that Kobe, on the perimeter was somehow helping Shaq on the inside more then the other way around only shows a lack of basketball knowledge. Any coach in this league would take a dominant big man in the middle over a dominant perimeter player. Theres so many more matchup problems a dominant big man can create as well as setting up all his perimeter players. Kobe's game, like it or not, was drastically helped by Shaqs presence. Anyways, fuckit this is getting boring lol Me, Scittles and Jake have gone back and forth since the beginning of time on this and nothing ever changes. Ive always admitted that i like Kobe's game. But the Kobe fans cant seem to get it outta their heads that he isnt perfect, and he definetely isnt Jordan lol. He's good, but his little spoiled brat "give me all the spotlight" attitude will always give him this kind of negative attention.
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damn that is a lot to read.. props guys.. I'll read it when I have time
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I think we can all agree that TeeRaySix9Teen is a moron. :-*
And to say everything was handed to kobe it's retarded...he had to work for everything he has you moron..
And again ..you're just one of these little bitches jumping up & down kobe had 1 so called bad season..wich he didn't..but kobe is such @ a high level that if he has a season like last season it's cosidered a bad season..but if you know annything about b-ball you would know that Rudy T is a bad fucking coach..look @ his rocket teams the last 4 seasons..
And obviously your stupid ass don't listen to Sports Radio b/c all these faggots that host the show & call always say "kobe doesn't pass the ball"..that shit is so stupid & you're saying the same thing when you say "kobe is selfish he could learn something from lebronze"..you're stupid...
And @ the end of the day Lebron wants to be kobe..Lebron has yet to do 20% of what kobe has/will do in his career ;)
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
at least one half of your statement is correct ;D
honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
Half of my statement? It's a fact...They had a poll in the beginning of last season. They asked all the GMs which player in the NBA they'd choose to build their team around. All 30 picked Kobeas. You're stupid for saying Kobe is going downhill from here...Jordan was just beginning at Kobe's age. Kobe is still young, there is no way he's reached his full potential...Unless he gets seriously injured or something like that, but Kobe is the type of player who works every off-season to better himself...He will amaze...PeACe
If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful. As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno?
when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
No kidding, dumbass. It's obvious that LeBron developed at an earlier age than Kobe, that's all Magic was saying...How many fucking times have we heard Magic saying Kobe is the best player in the league by far, and praising Kobe as one of the greatests...So if you wanna bring Magic into this, you've just killed your whole argument by yourself...LeBron is just special as in he got to an all-star level right off the bat (being pushed on an extremely whack team, of course), but Kobe hss still accomplished so much more and is on a whole other level...Anyone who knows anything will tell you the same.
Magic is a Laker...i think you know that. Magic will support his player first. So its a much bigger deal for Magic to put someone on a higher platform once, then it would be for him to put Kobe on it 100 times. If Kobe was traded tomorrow for Lebron, Magic would turn around and say Lebron is the best player in the league. Its common sense. Lebron got "pushed" to an all star level how? You cant deny how good he is. Kobe was on just as wack a team, so it shoulda been easy for him to shine also. Lebron gets a lot of attention because in a league that seems to embrace the selfish, flashy, ballhog players....Lebron shined while being unselfish. Kobe could learn from him....
like i said, im not even a Lebron fan...also, as far as what Kobe has accomplished....not that much without Shaq.
What has Jordan accomplish without Pippen and Phil? LOL...You're a joke, you make no sense. You bring what Magic says into this, and then when I use that to prove you wrong, you try flipping everything. LeBron is still tryna' learn off players like Kobe, so what's even going through your mind when you're saying shit like "Kobe could learn from him"...LeBron came into the league HOPING to be the next Kobe. He was drafted by a team where he was the main source of offense and basically was the head of everything on the team. Yes, he was athletic enough to shine like a star, but he couldn't take his team anywhere not 1, but 2 seasons in a row. If Kareem Rush was drafted by the Cavs with the first pick, got all the media attention in the NBA, and pushed the same way LeBron was pushed, he'd be looking like a superstar too. It's all about the position you're placed in. Kobe came in the league backing up the star shooting guard of the team (Eddie Jones). Kareem Rush came in the league backing up the star shooting guard as well (Kobe)...It's all about where you are placed and how you handle it. LeBron is an excellent player, but he's no where NEAR Kobe's level. If you honestly believe that, go ahead...Kobe has proven greatness, it doesn't take a genius to see that...PeACe
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If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful.
Are we judging the whole 9 years old career of Kobe or just his last disappointing season? If you look at the whole thing, Kobe has been a fantastic player, averaging 22.4 pts, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.45 spg, plus he was been named 7 times an All-Star, and he has averaged even better stats in 119 NBA PlayOff games. In a contender team, sharing the ball with Shaq. Those numbers alone will have as a consequence that the n.8 Lakers jersey will be retired, one day. Add 3 rings and a half in the mix, and you have a great player, no discussion. I dunno if he's on the same level of Magic, Jordan and Bird, who knows? But for sure he's the best SG in the league right now, and he was been the best one in the last couple of years. Plus he's still 27, so how is it possible to write something like "he has already reached its pinnacle"? Jordan won his first one at 28. C'mon now. C'mon now. Last year it was been a wasted one in Kobe's career, because of a lot of injuries (Kobe has missed 16 games, Odom 18, Grant 13, Divac 67, George 67, not to mention Rudy T), of troubles finding a good coach, and because of the team allowing opponents to score more than 110pts, embarassing. Next year it's the "real" one, with Phil back in L.A., with Bynum and Brown added in the mix, without Atkins, and with less pressure on the team. We will see. But let's wait to judge Kobe's career and let's stop saying he aint a "winner".
As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno? when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
If we need to wait more on Kobe's career to judge it, LeBron's one still has to start!
first off...me saying Kobe's career has reached its pinnacle is based on my assessment of Kobe. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Im not saying that ANYone at 27-28 has already reached or passed their prime. Im saying, i dont see Kobe getting BETTER. He hasnt shown the type of attitude that would allow him to. He's a big fuckin baby. It takes a mature, humble man to understand that theyll have to change their game completely at some point to stay at a top level (for a player who relies so much on athletism). Jordan understood that...i dont see Kobe that way. Yeah, Kobe has been a good player. He has been one of the better players in the league during the last 5 years or so, one of the best....as was Larry Johnson for the first half of his career. How many of you guys even know who the fuck he is now? lol. Yeah he has half a career left ahead of him. But we've had people on here comparing him to Jordan...and saying he is on the same level for a career. If those Laker....i mean, Kobe fans can make a judgement like THAT (insane) on only half a career...then i can say that i dont think he'll improve after this point. He will probably have a better year then last year. But he will never be the winner he was with Shaq...unless they bring him some BIG help like i said. The man just isnt a winner. He's a scorer...and thats it.
As for your Lebron statement. Im not even a Lebron fan. Im just saying i would take a player like Lebron over Kobe anyday to start my team with. Lebrons biggest problem coming into the league was being TOO unselfish. A problem Kobe has never had i guarentee lol. Lebron's game will improve more then likely from this point on. Kobe's probably wont (as he is half done). NIK was arguing it, so i just put up a quote from the most respected Laker of all time.
LMAO, you don't make sense...First of all, stop comparing Kobe Bryant to Larry Johnson like an idiotic moron. Second of all, you act like you know Kobe's attitude so well. You don't. He's only shown improvement throughout the years, and every year he's worked to better himself in a drastic way during the off-season. Your statements hold no evidence, you have nothing to back what you say. Just stop making dumb predictions. :-X
comparing him to Larry Johnson because you guys tell me i cant predict that Kobe will fall off later in his career, but you can predict that he'll be as great as Jordan by the end of his career. Hypocrits. Another example of your guys hypocracy...i only claim to know his attitude as much as you guys do, only in the opposite. You guys always claim he is this unselfish team player who wants to win first, shine second. Which is obviously an assessment of his attitude. Then when i say he is a selfish, non team player who wants to shine first, win second....you say that i cant possibly know his attitude lol. If you guys wanna call me a Kobe hater, thats fine...but at least admit how much of a Kobe dickrider you guys are lol
If he wants to shine first why would he agree to play alongside 3 hall of famers in a quest for an NBA championship?...Your mentality is fucked, you keep coming up with factless theories which don't make sense. Nobody claims Kobe will be greater than Jordan yet, lots of people just see it as a possibility. Kobe is closer to greatness than he is to Larry Johnson status, and if you don't know that, I feel bad for anyone who discusses basketball with you. I'm not a Kobe dickrider either, because this is honestly my opinion, which many NBA experts and analysts share...
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no, Magic didnt say he was better right NOW. But he is also like 8 yrs younger and was a contender for MVP last year. Kobe in his first two years looked like a high school kid playing in the NBA.
He was. Expecially since he started as a backup SG/SF. You gotta understand that one thing is to be selected with the #1 pick, with Nike already giving you billions before the NBA season begins, with the media loving you, and with Cleveland ready to completely build their team around you, making you "the King", and a totally different thing is to enter the NBA the way Kobe did, being selected with the #13 pick, then being traded to the Lakers, starting as a backup SG with Eddie Jones, the fan fav player, as the starter, and with the team completely built around Shaq. They are two completely different scenario's, you can't compare them. Kobe started to have good minutage only after Lakers traded Eddie Jones for Rice! How can you compare that scenario with LeBron's one where he was the most publicized player in the NBA...... before he joined the NBA? For sure LeBron is "special", i do agree with Magic. But he had the red carpet ready when he entered the NBA, and he still gotta prove he's a leader.
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes? I dont think he would have been ready in anyway. He wasnt mature enough. To me he has always been just that spoiled little kid thats been handed everything. Youre only showing the possitives for Lebron and negatives for Kobe to support your argument. Not showing how much more pressure Lebron was under to perform then Kobe. If Kobe was a bust, then like u said....he was only a #13 pick and a backup behind a fan favorite anyways. If Lebron failed, it would be Clevelands immediate future out the window. Alot of pressure for a young kid to step into the NBA and instantly be the leader of a team. Kobe could hardly handle that last year lol. Let alone his rookie year.
Kobe was handed everything? LMFAOOOOOOO...Kobe made a name for himself OUT OF NOWHERE. People thought, at the most, he'd reach all-star level...No one saw him as a possible candidate for one of the greatests EVER. He's worked to accomplish everything he's done. You're blinded, you don't even realize your own hatred for Kobe. I think if Kobe was placed on a team like Cleveland and pushed like LeBron was, he'd easily put up 25 points a game, but if it was Kobe, Cleveland woulda' made the playoffs in their second year... ::)
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[/unbiased Basketball fan ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
I don't know. I mean i'm a Laker fan, and i only watch Lakers games, so i can't say a lot about LeBron, cause i've seen him just a pair of times in full games. But i know Kobe. I do since i'm Italian and my father used to be a referee in our italian league. He knew Kobe's father (OT: good luck coaching the Sparks), and he knew Kobe too, not as a player, but as a little kid. He was involved in the Kobe's-father-buying-the-Milan-basketball-team operation 3-4 years ago, so he's still in contact with him. Somehow Kobe is special to me. My father tells me about when he was in Reggio Emilia being the referee of a local match (Kobe's father played for Reggio Emilia), and Kobe, who was just a kid, used to hit 3pts during half time, making the crowd jump off their seats screaming his name. He was like the mascotte of the team. He looked 15 years old, lol, but he was like 6-7. That's why i've always liked Kobe, since his first day in the NBA. Add the fact that he speaks fluent in Italian, and you have my "hero". But honestly i dont think he was ready to play in the NBA. He was like Sasha Vujacic, another guard i know who grew up in Italy. He had skills, but he didnt have an NBA mentality and he wasnt a "basketball" player enought to be ready for a contender team. Just like Sasha. Personally i think Kobe gotta thank a lot of people: Tex Winter, who made him an impact SG player, Eddie Jones, who helped him in his early years, Ron Harper and Brian Shaw, who were like fathers for him (expecially when he wasnt on good terms with his real one), Jerry West, for trading Eddie Jones and giving Kobe the needed spootlight, Fisher, Fox, Horry... all those player who are real men first, then great players later. You know what i mean? He wasnt ready for the NBA yet, but those players plus Phil Jackson made him what he is today. They changed him from Tracy McGrady to 3 and a half titles. LeBron? LeBron looks like he's 30. Not only phisical, but also because he looks to be a mature man, who doesnt need all the players/men who helped Kobe. It's like if LeBron has seen a VHS of Kobe's career, and he already knows what to do and how to do it. He's Kobe when he finished his developing process. That's where i do agree with Magic. Kobe wasnt ready, LeBron is. But Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker, something Lebron will probably never have. And Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker when the Lakers were missing him to be a contender team. Lebron i dont know if he'll be in a team as strong as the 3peat Lakers. That's why people will always remember Kobe for the 3 rings. That's why i still prefeer Kobe. That's why Kobe is a champion, and LeBron is still a "baby". Cause no matter what, it's all about them rings. And Kobe, helped by all those people surrounding him, was been the main reason why the Lakers won 3 rings (no Kobe no rings! Somebody should remember it to Shaq!).
Youre only showing the possitives for Lebron and negatives for Kobe to support your argument. Not showing how much more pressure Lebron was under to perform then Kobe. If Kobe was a bust, then like u said....he was only a #13 pick and a backup behind a fan favorite anyways. If Lebron failed, it would be Clevelands immediate future out the window. Alot of pressure for a young kid to step into the NBA and instantly be the leader of a team. Kobe could hardly handle that last year lol. Let alone his rookie year.
Yeah LeBron is coming out pretty well, i can't deny it. I dont hate on him, I'm simply a Laker fan who supports Kobe more, obviously.
[unbiased Basketball fan OFF]
[/Laker fan mode ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
First of all let me say that Kobe averaged 15.5 mins in his first NBA season, and 26.0 in his second.
Let's make a comparision between Kobe and Lebron, by calculating their rookie stats per 40 mins.
Kobe Bryant, 18 years old, averaged 19.5 points, 4.8 rebs, 3.3 assists and 1.8 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 19 years old, averaged 21.2 points, 5.5 rebs, 6.0 assists and 1.7 steals in 40 minutes.
Honestly, they aint "so" different, considering Kobe was a kid in a contender team, while LeBron was the Cavs. And that Kobe was 18 years old in a period where there were probably just like 3-4 other players "that" young in the league. Now it's all about HS players, you know, it's a totally different scenario!
Btw it's even closer in their second years..
Kobe Bryant, 19 years old, averaged 23.7 points, 4.7 rebs, 3.9 assists and 1.4 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 20 years old, averaged 25.7 points, 6.9 rebs, 6.8 assists and 2.1 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron's stats are better, but that's partially because he didnt have Shaq to share the ball with.
Kobe took his time to blow in the league as the best SG in the game. Something LeBron still has to do. 8)
[/Laker fan mode OFF]
for the first half of your post....you might be right, no Kobe...no rings. But at the same time, no Shaq...no playoffs.
for the second half, this is where the problem comes into play when i argue with all these Laker fans. Somewhere along the line they seem to have gotten the idea that stats make u great. they dont. leading your team makes u great. if stats are how we judge greatness...then Magic is only the second greatest passer ever. Id put him at first, but the stats say Stockton. stats are great for basketball cards and ESPN "Did you knows" but they dont show who is really great or who is a real leader for their team. What im saying about Kobe is that he couldnt have made Cleveland a legitimate team like Lebron did this fast in his career. Kobe during his first couple years showed talent, but definetely....DEFINETELY not the ability to lead. And last year, after how many years in the league...things were the same. He didnt lead. He got his stats...and thats it. Thats not greatness. Lebron honestly IMO did a better job LEADING his team last year then Kobe did his. And Lebron still has some work to do on his leadership skills. So where does that leave Kobe? This whole argument was about who u would take to start your franchise from this point on. I said id take Lebron cus his upside is FAR higher then Kobe's....from THIS point on. Lebron still has a ton of room to improve and he was an MVP candidate last year. Its rare that many players improve during the second half of their career and typically its big men if anything. So other then being a Kobe fan, how do people not see that he falls into the same category. Yeah, he COULD improve. Im not saying its impossible. Im saying i dont think his improvement (if any) would be so drastic that theyll win another championship without some SERIOUS help. Like it or not, he won those rings WITH Shaq. Shaq has gone to the finals with the Lakers and the Magic and Miami was in good position to last year. Kobe still has to prove he can even make the playoffs without Shaq. To think that Kobe, on the perimeter was somehow helping Shaq on the inside more then the other way around only shows a lack of basketball knowledge. Any coach in this league would take a dominant big man in the middle over a dominant perimeter player. Theres so many more matchup problems a dominant big man can create as well as setting up all his perimeter players. Kobe's game, like it or not, was drastically helped by Shaqs presence. Anyways, fuckit this is getting boring lol Me, Scittles and Jake have gone back and forth since the beginning of time on this and nothing ever changes. Ive always admitted that i like Kobe's game. But the Kobe fans cant seem to get it outta their heads that he isnt perfect, and he definetely isnt Jordan lol. He's good, but his little spoiled brat "give me all the spotlight" attitude will always give him this kind of negative attention.
You honestly don't think that the 3peat Lakers minus Shaq wouldn't make the playoffs? LOL...The team that didn't make the playoffs last year was an expansion team with Kobe. Kobe STILL showed leadership skills and STILL helped every player on the team improve their game, from Chucky Atkins, to Chris Mihm. From Tierre Brown, to Caron Butler... Through injury, coaching changes, and basically a plagued team, Kobe still pulled through, still played like a superstar (without Shaq), and still mentored the new Laker players...The fact that the season plan went down the drain halfway through is not in Kobe's hands...LeBron did a better job leading? LMFAO. LeBron couldn't make the playoffs in the EAST with and all-star center by his side and a nice supporting cast who've been together enough to build chemistry. That's why you got players like Jeff McInnis leaving Cleveland, because they know they can shine better on other team...Shaq has gone to the playoffs with NBA superstars to guide him, like Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, and Dwayne Wade. Shaq hasn't proven any more than Kobe has. You said you'd take LeBron to start your franchise. 30 GM's + I said Kobe was the man we'd take to start our franchise. Who has more to back them? 8)
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.but if you know annything about b-ball you would know that Rudy T is a bad fucking coach..look @ his rocket teams the last 4 seasons..
And even with Rudy-T, the Lakers were in the playoffs...They were playing decent and were climbing up the ladder. Everything went downhill when Rudy-T resigned, it became a catashtrophe.
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I think we can all agree that TeeRaySix9Teen is a moron. :-*
And to say everything was handed to kobe it's retarded...he had to work for everything he has you moron..
And again ..you're just one of these little bitches jumping up & down kobe had 1 so called bad season..wich he didn't..but kobe is such @ a high level that if he has a season like last season it's cosidered a bad season..but if you know annything about b-ball you would know that Rudy T is a bad fucking coach..look @ his rocket teams the last 4 seasons..
And obviously your stupid ass don't listen to Sports Radio b/c all these faggots that host the show & call always say "kobe doesn't pass the ball"..that shit is so stupid & you're saying the same thing when you say "kobe is selfish he could learn something from lebronze"..you're stupid...
And @ the end of the day Lebron wants to be kobe..Lebron has yet to do 20% of what kobe has/will do in his career ;)
first off, you and NIK already lost this argument. Its obvious when you guys are losing....because all u do is hop in the thread and try to talk shit and call names rather then make ANY real points. NIK, even though acting like a bitch in this thread has a little bit of my respect when it comes to this basketball shit because of our past arguments. And regardless of how sensitive he's getting now he knows how much i know basketball also. We just disagree on this subject and always will until Kobe is a distant memory lol.
You, on the other hand...are nobody. You havent made ONE point. Youve only proven your status as a dickrider even further by arguing. A fan would make valid points and respect the others opinion. A simple dickrider like yourself would only get emotional when someone else says anything negative about their idol. There are differences between fans...and dickriders....you just havent figured out which one you are even though its obvious to any non Laker fan.
What does Sports Radio have to do with any of this? lol. Stick to the topic if youre going to argue. Like i said, unless youve been here since ive been here and seen me saying the same shit about Kobe when they were WINning championships...then dont speak on it. Im done responding to your posts after this one. Youre a strait basketball retard when it comes to this subject so your opinion just doesnt matter.
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Shaq has gone to the playoffs with NBA superstars to guide him, like Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, and Dwayne Wade. Shaq hasn't proven any more than Kobe has.
I forgot about that argument...you can't judge kobe on 1 year..last season was his 1rst season by himself & the 2nd best player on the team was playing out of position..
And i'm not saying lamar is a Superstar & that he's going to become one but @ least now he's moving back to the SF position where he could over power SF's & he's been coach by phil jax.Lets see what happens
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
at least one half of your statement is correct ;D
honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
Half of my statement? It's a fact...They had a poll in the beginning of last season. They asked all the GMs which player in the NBA they'd choose to build their team around. All 30 picked Kobeas. You're stupid for saying Kobe is going downhill from here...Jordan was just beginning at Kobe's age. Kobe is still young, there is no way he's reached his full potential...Unless he gets seriously injured or something like that, but Kobe is the type of player who works every off-season to better himself...He will amaze...PeACe
If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful. As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno?
when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
No kidding, dumbass. It's obvious that LeBron developed at an earlier age than Kobe, that's all Magic was saying...How many fucking times have we heard Magic saying Kobe is the best player in the league by far, and praising Kobe as one of the greatests...So if you wanna bring Magic into this, you've just killed your whole argument by yourself...LeBron is just special as in he got to an all-star level right off the bat (being pushed on an extremely whack team, of course), but Kobe hss still accomplished so much more and is on a whole other level...Anyone who knows anything will tell you the same.
Magic is a Laker...i think you know that. Magic will support his player first. So its a much bigger deal for Magic to put someone on a higher platform once, then it would be for him to put Kobe on it 100 times. If Kobe was traded tomorrow for Lebron, Magic would turn around and say Lebron is the best player in the league. Its common sense. Lebron got "pushed" to an all star level how? You cant deny how good he is. Kobe was on just as wack a team, so it shoulda been easy for him to shine also. Lebron gets a lot of attention because in a league that seems to embrace the selfish, flashy, ballhog players....Lebron shined while being unselfish. Kobe could learn from him....
like i said, im not even a Lebron fan...also, as far as what Kobe has accomplished....not that much without Shaq.
What has Jordan accomplish without Pippen and Phil? LOL...You're a joke, you make no sense. You bring what Magic says into this, and then when I use that to prove you wrong, you try flipping everything. LeBron is still tryna' learn off players like Kobe, so what's even going through your mind when you're saying shit like "Kobe could learn from him"...LeBron came into the league HOPING to be the next Kobe. He was drafted by a team where he was the main source of offense and basically was the head of everything on the team. Yes, he was athletic enough to shine like a star, but he couldn't take his team anywhere not 1, but 2 seasons in a row. If Kareem Rush was drafted by the Cavs with the first pick, got all the media attention in the NBA, and pushed the same way LeBron was pushed, he'd be looking like a superstar too. It's all about the position you're placed in. Kobe came in the league backing up the star shooting guard of the team (Eddie Jones). Kareem Rush came in the league backing up the star shooting guard as well (Kobe)...It's all about where you are placed and how you handle it. LeBron is an excellent player, but he's no where NEAR Kobe's level. If you honestly believe that, go ahead...Kobe has proven greatness, it doesn't take a genius to see that...PeACe
how did you prove me wrong on the Magic issue? I gave you a QUOTE strait from him. And you argued it. Plain and simple. You cant prove me wrong on it, without saying that Magic was lying through his teeth.
As far as Kobe learning from him...cmon man, i know youre young...but youre not THAT young lol. EVERYone, i mean EVERYone can learn from somebody. Rookie....Veteran....it doesnt matter. There are veterans who might learn from Kobe even from time to time. I didnt say Kobe should pattern his whole entire game after Lebron. Im saying he could learn from Lebrons unselfishness. Obviously, neither of us are in their locker rooms. But i guarentee you (and if you actually played ball like u said u did, then you agree) that Lebrons teammates are happier playing with a player like him...then Kobe's would, playing with a player like him. Role players like playing with a star, who can carry them, but will allow others to shine also. As far as comparing the two at the beginning of their career....once again, the Magic quote. I only use it because i agree with it. Argue with me.....argue with Magic the Laker God. lol. If you think im wrong, then go ahead and say it NIK....Magic is a fuckin idiot.
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Youre a strait basketball retard when it comes to this subject so your opinion just doesnt matter.
And yours does?..stop drinking that heterrade bitch...
you're the one who's the retard..really think about what you're saying...How the fuck you going to talk shit about a 3 time champion? you.....are....a...moron
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[/unbiased Basketball fan ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
I don't know. I mean i'm a Laker fan, and i only watch Lakers games, so i can't say a lot about LeBron, cause i've seen him just a pair of times in full games. But i know Kobe. I do since i'm Italian and my father used to be a referee in our italian league. He knew Kobe's father (OT: good luck coaching the Sparks), and he knew Kobe too, not as a player, but as a little kid. He was involved in the Kobe's-father-buying-the-Milan-basketball-team operation 3-4 years ago, so he's still in contact with him. Somehow Kobe is special to me. My father tells me about when he was in Reggio Emilia being the referee of a local match (Kobe's father played for Reggio Emilia), and Kobe, who was just a kid, used to hit 3pts during half time, making the crowd jump off their seats screaming his name. He was like the mascotte of the team. He looked 15 years old, lol, but he was like 6-7. That's why i've always liked Kobe, since his first day in the NBA. Add the fact that he speaks fluent in Italian, and you have my "hero". But honestly i dont think he was ready to play in the NBA. He was like Sasha Vujacic, another guard i know who grew up in Italy. He had skills, but he didnt have an NBA mentality and he wasnt a "basketball" player enought to be ready for a contender team. Just like Sasha. Personally i think Kobe gotta thank a lot of people: Tex Winter, who made him an impact SG player, Eddie Jones, who helped him in his early years, Ron Harper and Brian Shaw, who were like fathers for him (expecially when he wasnt on good terms with his real one), Jerry West, for trading Eddie Jones and giving Kobe the needed spootlight, Fisher, Fox, Horry... all those player who are real men first, then great players later. You know what i mean? He wasnt ready for the NBA yet, but those players plus Phil Jackson made him what he is today. They changed him from Tracy McGrady to 3 and a half titles. LeBron? LeBron looks like he's 30. Not only phisical, but also because he looks to be a mature man, who doesnt need all the players/men who helped Kobe. It's like if LeBron has seen a VHS of Kobe's career, and he already knows what to do and how to do it. He's Kobe when he finished his developing process. That's where i do agree with Magic. Kobe wasnt ready, LeBron is. But Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker, something Lebron will probably never have. And Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker when the Lakers were missing him to be a contender team. Lebron i dont know if he'll be in a team as strong as the 3peat Lakers. That's why people will always remember Kobe for the 3 rings. That's why i still prefeer Kobe. That's why Kobe is a champion, and LeBron is still a "baby". Cause no matter what, it's all about them rings. And Kobe, helped by all those people surrounding him, was been the main reason why the Lakers won 3 rings (no Kobe no rings! Somebody should remember it to Shaq!).
Youre only showing the possitives for Lebron and negatives for Kobe to support your argument. Not showing how much more pressure Lebron was under to perform then Kobe. If Kobe was a bust, then like u said....he was only a #13 pick and a backup behind a fan favorite anyways. If Lebron failed, it would be Clevelands immediate future out the window. Alot of pressure for a young kid to step into the NBA and instantly be the leader of a team. Kobe could hardly handle that last year lol. Let alone his rookie year.
Yeah LeBron is coming out pretty well, i can't deny it. I dont hate on him, I'm simply a Laker fan who supports Kobe more, obviously.
[unbiased Basketball fan OFF]
[/Laker fan mode ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
First of all let me say that Kobe averaged 15.5 mins in his first NBA season, and 26.0 in his second.
Let's make a comparision between Kobe and Lebron, by calculating their rookie stats per 40 mins.
Kobe Bryant, 18 years old, averaged 19.5 points, 4.8 rebs, 3.3 assists and 1.8 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 19 years old, averaged 21.2 points, 5.5 rebs, 6.0 assists and 1.7 steals in 40 minutes.
Honestly, they aint "so" different, considering Kobe was a kid in a contender team, while LeBron was the Cavs. And that Kobe was 18 years old in a period where there were probably just like 3-4 other players "that" young in the league. Now it's all about HS players, you know, it's a totally different scenario!
Btw it's even closer in their second years..
Kobe Bryant, 19 years old, averaged 23.7 points, 4.7 rebs, 3.9 assists and 1.4 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 20 years old, averaged 25.7 points, 6.9 rebs, 6.8 assists and 2.1 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron's stats are better, but that's partially because he didnt have Shaq to share the ball with.
Kobe took his time to blow in the league as the best SG in the game. Something LeBron still has to do. 8)
[/Laker fan mode OFF]
for the first half of your post....you might be right, no Kobe...no rings. But at the same time, no Shaq...no playoffs.
for the second half, this is where the problem comes into play when i argue with all these Laker fans. Somewhere along the line they seem to have gotten the idea that stats make u great. they dont. leading your team makes u great. if stats are how we judge greatness...then Magic is only the second greatest passer ever. Id put him at first, but the stats say Stockton. stats are great for basketball cards and ESPN "Did you knows" but they dont show who is really great or who is a real leader for their team. What im saying about Kobe is that he couldnt have made Cleveland a legitimate team like Lebron did this fast in his career. Kobe during his first couple years showed talent, but definetely....DEFINETELY not the ability to lead. And last year, after how many years in the league...things were the same. He didnt lead. He got his stats...and thats it. Thats not greatness. Lebron honestly IMO did a better job LEADING his team last year then Kobe did his. And Lebron still has some work to do on his leadership skills. So where does that leave Kobe? This whole argument was about who u would take to start your franchise from this point on. I said id take Lebron cus his upside is FAR higher then Kobe's....from THIS point on. Lebron still has a ton of room to improve and he was an MVP candidate last year. Its rare that many players improve during the second half of their career and typically its big men if anything. So other then being a Kobe fan, how do people not see that he falls into the same category. Yeah, he COULD improve. Im not saying its impossible. Im saying i dont think his improvement (if any) would be so drastic that theyll win another championship without some SERIOUS help. Like it or not, he won those rings WITH Shaq. Shaq has gone to the finals with the Lakers and the Magic and Miami was in good position to last year. Kobe still has to prove he can even make the playoffs without Shaq. To think that Kobe, on the perimeter was somehow helping Shaq on the inside more then the other way around only shows a lack of basketball knowledge. Any coach in this league would take a dominant big man in the middle over a dominant perimeter player. Theres so many more matchup problems a dominant big man can create as well as setting up all his perimeter players. Kobe's game, like it or not, was drastically helped by Shaqs presence. Anyways, fuckit this is getting boring lol Me, Scittles and Jake have gone back and forth since the beginning of time on this and nothing ever changes. Ive always admitted that i like Kobe's game. But the Kobe fans cant seem to get it outta their heads that he isnt perfect, and he definetely isnt Jordan lol. He's good, but his little spoiled brat "give me all the spotlight" attitude will always give him this kind of negative attention.
You honestly don't think that the 3peat Lakers minus Shaq wouldn't make the playoffs? LOL...The team that didn't make the playoffs last year was an expansion team with Kobe. Kobe STILL showed leadership skills and STILL helped every player on the team improve their game, from Chucky Atkins, to Chris Mihm. From Tierre Brown, to Caron Butler... Through injury, coaching changes, and basically a plagued team, Kobe still pulled through, still played like a superstar (without Shaq), and still mentored the new Laker players...The fact that the season plan went down the drain halfway through is not in Kobe's hands...LeBron did a better job leading? LMFAO. LeBron couldn't make the playoffs in the EAST with and all-star center by his side and a nice supporting cast who've been together enough to build chemistry. That's why you got players like Jeff McInnis leaving Cleveland, because they know they can shine better on other team...Shaq has gone to the playoffs with NBA superstars to guide him, like Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, and Dwayne Wade. Shaq hasn't proven any more than Kobe has. You said you'd take LeBron to start your franchise. 30 GM's + I said Kobe was the man we'd take to start our franchise. Who has more to back them? 8)
the 3peat lakers minus Shaq....might have still made the playoffs. But take Kobe off the team, and the team still had a chance to make the finals.
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if 30 other GM's had to start with a franchise player i dont think all of em would pick kobe i can see some of em going with james or kg
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Youre a strait basketball retard when it comes to this subject so your opinion just doesnt matter.
And yours does?..stop drinking that heterrade bitch...
you're the one who's the retard..really think about what you're saying...How the fuck you going to talk shit about a 3 time champion? you.....are....a...moron
:loser:
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if 30 other GM's had to start with a franchise player i dont think all of em would pick kobe i can see some of em going with james or kg
kg...duncan...james....etc....etc....
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Youre a strait basketball retard when it comes to this subject so your opinion just doesnt matter.
And yours does?..stop drinking that heterrade bitch...
you're the one who's the retard..really think about what you're saying...How the fuck you going to talk shit about a 3 time champion? you.....are....a...moron
:loser:
:loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loco:
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for the first half of your post....you might be right, no Kobe...no rings. But at the same time, no Shaq...no playoffs.
That's an horrible statement, from every point of view. First of all Jerry West traded everybody included their mama to sign Shaq. So he gave Shaq the keys of the team, and he did it for good. But, just to make you an example, the 1997-98 team had 3 players who went in the All Star Game other than Shaq: Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel and Kobe. It was the only team in the league with no 30+ years old players in the roster. It was a great team, who just had to develop into the 3peat one. I wouldnt go as far as saying no Shaq no playoffs: matter of fact the 1995-96 team, the one before Shaq, had a 53-wins record and the 2nd place in the Pacific Division spot. So no Shaq = 52 wins.
for the second half, this is where the problem comes into play when i argue with all these Laker fans. Somewhere along the line they seem to have gotten the idea that stats make u great. they dont. leading your team makes u great. if stats are how we judge greatness...then Magic is only the second greatest passer ever. Id put him at first, but the stats say Stockton. stats are great for basketball cards and ESPN "Did you knows" but they dont show who is really great or who is a real leader for their team. What im saying about Kobe is that he couldnt have made Cleveland a legitimate team like Lebron did this fast in his career.
A legitimate team? You mean LeBron made Cleveland a legitimate team by didnt reaching the Play Offs in the Eastern Conference for 2 straight years? Didn't know the real definition of "legitimate team" and the real meaning of "being the leader of a team". Now i do. Thank you LeBron!
Kobe during his first couple years showed talent, but definetely....DEFINETELY not the ability to lead.
He didnt have to. He was a rookie in a contender team runned by Shaq. He was the SG of the Lakers. Don't even compare it with the hopeless Cavs who signed LeBron to save them from being considered a total failure.
And last year, after how many years in the league...things were the same. He didnt lead. He got his stats...and thats it. Thats not greatness. Lebron honestly IMO did a better job LEADING his team last year then Kobe did his. And Lebron still has some work to do on his leadership skills. So where does that leave Kobe? This whole argument was about who u would take to start your franchise from this point on. I said id take Lebron cus his upside is FAR higher then Kobe's....from THIS point on. Lebron still has a ton of room to improve and he was an MVP candidate last year. Its rare that many players improve during the second half of their career and typically its big men if anything. So other then being a Kobe fan, how do people not see that he falls into the same category. Yeah, he COULD improve. Im not saying its impossible. Im saying i dont think his improvement (if any) would be so drastic that theyll win another championship without some SERIOUS help. Like it or not, he won those rings WITH Shaq. Shaq has gone to the finals with the Lakers and the Magic and Miami was in good position to last year. Kobe still has to prove he can even make the playoffs without Shaq.
Matter of fact LeBron too.
To think that Kobe, on the perimeter was somehow helping Shaq on the inside more then the other way around only shows a lack of basketball knowledge. Any coach in this league would take a dominant big man in the middle over a dominant perimeter player. Theres so many more matchup problems a dominant big man can create as well as setting up all his perimeter players. Kobe's game, like it or not, was drastically helped by Shaqs presence. Anyways, fuckit this is getting boring lol Me, Scittles and Jake have gone back and forth since the beginning of time on this and nothing ever changes. Ive always admitted that i like Kobe's game. But the Kobe fans cant seem to get it outta their heads that he isnt perfect, and he definetely isnt Jordan lol. He's good, but his little spoiled brat "give me all the spotlight" attitude will always give him this kind of negative attention.
What about the new commercial of Nike about Kobe? That attitude is never described by the media, uh?
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
at least one half of your statement is correct ;D
honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
Half of my statement? It's a fact...They had a poll in the beginning of last season. They asked all the GMs which player in the NBA they'd choose to build their team around. All 30 picked Kobeas. You're stupid for saying Kobe is going downhill from here...Jordan was just beginning at Kobe's age. Kobe is still young, there is no way he's reached his full potential...Unless he gets seriously injured or something like that, but Kobe is the type of player who works every off-season to better himself...He will amaze...PeACe
If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful. As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno?
when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
No kidding, dumbass. It's obvious that LeBron developed at an earlier age than Kobe, that's all Magic was saying...How many fucking times have we heard Magic saying Kobe is the best player in the league by far, and praising Kobe as one of the greatests...So if you wanna bring Magic into this, you've just killed your whole argument by yourself...LeBron is just special as in he got to an all-star level right off the bat (being pushed on an extremely whack team, of course), but Kobe hss still accomplished so much more and is on a whole other level...Anyone who knows anything will tell you the same.
Magic is a Laker...i think you know that. Magic will support his player first. So its a much bigger deal for Magic to put someone on a higher platform once, then it would be for him to put Kobe on it 100 times. If Kobe was traded tomorrow for Lebron, Magic would turn around and say Lebron is the best player in the league. Its common sense. Lebron got "pushed" to an all star level how? You cant deny how good he is. Kobe was on just as wack a team, so it shoulda been easy for him to shine also. Lebron gets a lot of attention because in a league that seems to embrace the selfish, flashy, ballhog players....Lebron shined while being unselfish. Kobe could learn from him....
like i said, im not even a Lebron fan...also, as far as what Kobe has accomplished....not that much without Shaq.
What has Jordan accomplish without Pippen and Phil? LOL...You're a joke, you make no sense. You bring what Magic says into this, and then when I use that to prove you wrong, you try flipping everything. LeBron is still tryna' learn off players like Kobe, so what's even going through your mind when you're saying shit like "Kobe could learn from him"...LeBron came into the league HOPING to be the next Kobe. He was drafted by a team where he was the main source of offense and basically was the head of everything on the team. Yes, he was athletic enough to shine like a star, but he couldn't take his team anywhere not 1, but 2 seasons in a row. If Kareem Rush was drafted by the Cavs with the first pick, got all the media attention in the NBA, and pushed the same way LeBron was pushed, he'd be looking like a superstar too. It's all about the position you're placed in. Kobe came in the league backing up the star shooting guard of the team (Eddie Jones). Kareem Rush came in the league backing up the star shooting guard as well (Kobe)...It's all about where you are placed and how you handle it. LeBron is an excellent player, but he's no where NEAR Kobe's level. If you honestly believe that, go ahead...Kobe has proven greatness, it doesn't take a genius to see that...PeACe
how did you prove me wrong on the Magic issue? I gave you a QUOTE strait from him. And you argued it. Plain and simple. You cant prove me wrong on it, without saying that Magic was lying through his teeth.
As far as Kobe learning from him...cmon man, i know youre young...but youre not THAT young lol. EVERYone, i mean EVERYone can learn from somebody. Rookie....Veteran....it doesnt matter. There are veterans who might learn from Kobe even from time to time. I didnt say Kobe should pattern his whole entire game after Lebron. Im saying he could learn from Lebrons unselfishness. Obviously, neither of us are in their locker rooms. But i guarentee you (and if you actually played ball like u said u did, then you agree) that Lebrons teammates are happier playing with a player like him...then Kobe's would, playing with a player like him. Role players like playing with a star, who can carry them, but will allow others to shine also. As far as comparing the two at the beginning of their career....once again, the Magic quote. I only use it because i agree with it. Argue with me.....argue with Magic the Laker God. lol. If you think im wrong, then go ahead and say it NIK....Magic is a fuckin idiot.
LOL. I shot down every one of your arguments one by one, and this is all you have? I'm not arguing with Magic, I agree with him. LeBron is special as in he developed the quickest straight out of high school...He STILL is nowhere near Kobe. You think LeBron would like to be playing on the same team as Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, or Tracy McGrady right now? Hell no. What's your point, no superstar guard would like to play on the same team as another superstar who plays the same position. That doesn't equal winning, that equals heads clashing. LeBron has had everything to himself in Cleveland, he hasn't been put to the test yet. Remember that clean cut image Kobe had back in 2001? Everyone loved him, pretty much like everyone loves LeBron now...See, the point is that you don't base a player on their public image (LeBron is mature, LeBron is unselfish, etc.), you base them on their game and their accomplishments...Kobe has so much more to his name than LeBron. LeBron probably still looks up to Kobe like when he did in high school. He still probably watches Kobe tapes on replay from when LeBron was 14. Again, if you wanna go by what Magic says, Kobe is _____by far____ the best in the league... 8)PEACE
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[/unbiased Basketball fan ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
I don't know. I mean i'm a Laker fan, and i only watch Lakers games, so i can't say a lot about LeBron, cause i've seen him just a pair of times in full games. But i know Kobe. I do since i'm Italian and my father used to be a referee in our italian league. He knew Kobe's father (OT: good luck coaching the Sparks), and he knew Kobe too, not as a player, but as a little kid. He was involved in the Kobe's-father-buying-the-Milan-basketball-team operation 3-4 years ago, so he's still in contact with him. Somehow Kobe is special to me. My father tells me about when he was in Reggio Emilia being the referee of a local match (Kobe's father played for Reggio Emilia), and Kobe, who was just a kid, used to hit 3pts during half time, making the crowd jump off their seats screaming his name. He was like the mascotte of the team. He looked 15 years old, lol, but he was like 6-7. That's why i've always liked Kobe, since his first day in the NBA. Add the fact that he speaks fluent in Italian, and you have my "hero". But honestly i dont think he was ready to play in the NBA. He was like Sasha Vujacic, another guard i know who grew up in Italy. He had skills, but he didnt have an NBA mentality and he wasnt a "basketball" player enought to be ready for a contender team. Just like Sasha. Personally i think Kobe gotta thank a lot of people: Tex Winter, who made him an impact SG player, Eddie Jones, who helped him in his early years, Ron Harper and Brian Shaw, who were like fathers for him (expecially when he wasnt on good terms with his real one), Jerry West, for trading Eddie Jones and giving Kobe the needed spootlight, Fisher, Fox, Horry... all those player who are real men first, then great players later. You know what i mean? He wasnt ready for the NBA yet, but those players plus Phil Jackson made him what he is today. They changed him from Tracy McGrady to 3 and a half titles. LeBron? LeBron looks like he's 30. Not only phisical, but also because he looks to be a mature man, who doesnt need all the players/men who helped Kobe. It's like if LeBron has seen a VHS of Kobe's career, and he already knows what to do and how to do it. He's Kobe when he finished his developing process. That's where i do agree with Magic. Kobe wasnt ready, LeBron is. But Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker, something Lebron will probably never have. And Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker when the Lakers were missing him to be a contender team. Lebron i dont know if he'll be in a team as strong as the 3peat Lakers. That's why people will always remember Kobe for the 3 rings. That's why i still prefeer Kobe. That's why Kobe is a champion, and LeBron is still a "baby". Cause no matter what, it's all about them rings. And Kobe, helped by all those people surrounding him, was been the main reason why the Lakers won 3 rings (no Kobe no rings! Somebody should remember it to Shaq!).
Youre only showing the possitives for Lebron and negatives for Kobe to support your argument. Not showing how much more pressure Lebron was under to perform then Kobe. If Kobe was a bust, then like u said....he was only a #13 pick and a backup behind a fan favorite anyways. If Lebron failed, it would be Clevelands immediate future out the window. Alot of pressure for a young kid to step into the NBA and instantly be the leader of a team. Kobe could hardly handle that last year lol. Let alone his rookie year.
Yeah LeBron is coming out pretty well, i can't deny it. I dont hate on him, I'm simply a Laker fan who supports Kobe more, obviously.
[unbiased Basketball fan OFF]
[/Laker fan mode ON]
its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
First of all let me say that Kobe averaged 15.5 mins in his first NBA season, and 26.0 in his second.
Let's make a comparision between Kobe and Lebron, by calculating their rookie stats per 40 mins.
Kobe Bryant, 18 years old, averaged 19.5 points, 4.8 rebs, 3.3 assists and 1.8 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 19 years old, averaged 21.2 points, 5.5 rebs, 6.0 assists and 1.7 steals in 40 minutes.
Honestly, they aint "so" different, considering Kobe was a kid in a contender team, while LeBron was the Cavs. And that Kobe was 18 years old in a period where there were probably just like 3-4 other players "that" young in the league. Now it's all about HS players, you know, it's a totally different scenario!
Btw it's even closer in their second years..
Kobe Bryant, 19 years old, averaged 23.7 points, 4.7 rebs, 3.9 assists and 1.4 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 20 years old, averaged 25.7 points, 6.9 rebs, 6.8 assists and 2.1 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron's stats are better, but that's partially because he didnt have Shaq to share the ball with.
Kobe took his time to blow in the league as the best SG in the game. Something LeBron still has to do. 8)
[/Laker fan mode OFF]
for the first half of your post....you might be right, no Kobe...no rings. But at the same time, no Shaq...no playoffs.
for the second half, this is where the problem comes into play when i argue with all these Laker fans. Somewhere along the line they seem to have gotten the idea that stats make u great. they dont. leading your team makes u great. if stats are how we judge greatness...then Magic is only the second greatest passer ever. Id put him at first, but the stats say Stockton. stats are great for basketball cards and ESPN "Did you knows" but they dont show who is really great or who is a real leader for their team. What im saying about Kobe is that he couldnt have made Cleveland a legitimate team like Lebron did this fast in his career. Kobe during his first couple years showed talent, but definetely....DEFINETELY not the ability to lead. And last year, after how many years in the league...things were the same. He didnt lead. He got his stats...and thats it. Thats not greatness. Lebron honestly IMO did a better job LEADING his team last year then Kobe did his. And Lebron still has some work to do on his leadership skills. So where does that leave Kobe? This whole argument was about who u would take to start your franchise from this point on. I said id take Lebron cus his upside is FAR higher then Kobe's....from THIS point on. Lebron still has a ton of room to improve and he was an MVP candidate last year. Its rare that many players improve during the second half of their career and typically its big men if anything. So other then being a Kobe fan, how do people not see that he falls into the same category. Yeah, he COULD improve. Im not saying its impossible. Im saying i dont think his improvement (if any) would be so drastic that theyll win another championship without some SERIOUS help. Like it or not, he won those rings WITH Shaq. Shaq has gone to the finals with the Lakers and the Magic and Miami was in good position to last year. Kobe still has to prove he can even make the playoffs without Shaq. To think that Kobe, on the perimeter was somehow helping Shaq on the inside more then the other way around only shows a lack of basketball knowledge. Any coach in this league would take a dominant big man in the middle over a dominant perimeter player. Theres so many more matchup problems a dominant big man can create as well as setting up all his perimeter players. Kobe's game, like it or not, was drastically helped by Shaqs presence. Anyways, fuckit this is getting boring lol Me, Scittles and Jake have gone back and forth since the beginning of time on this and nothing ever changes. Ive always admitted that i like Kobe's game. But the Kobe fans cant seem to get it outta their heads that he isnt perfect, and he definetely isnt Jordan lol. He's good, but his little spoiled brat "give me all the spotlight" attitude will always give him this kind of negative attention.
You honestly don't think that the 3peat Lakers minus Shaq wouldn't make the playoffs? LOL...The team that didn't make the playoffs last year was an expansion team with Kobe. Kobe STILL showed leadership skills and STILL helped every player on the team improve their game, from Chucky Atkins, to Chris Mihm. From Tierre Brown, to Caron Butler... Through injury, coaching changes, and basically a plagued team, Kobe still pulled through, still played like a superstar (without Shaq), and still mentored the new Laker players...The fact that the season plan went down the drain halfway through is not in Kobe's hands...LeBron did a better job leading? LMFAO. LeBron couldn't make the playoffs in the EAST with and all-star center by his side and a nice supporting cast who've been together enough to build chemistry. That's why you got players like Jeff McInnis leaving Cleveland, because they know they can shine better on other team...Shaq has gone to the playoffs with NBA superstars to guide him, like Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, and Dwayne Wade. Shaq hasn't proven any more than Kobe has. You said you'd take LeBron to start your franchise. 30 GM's + I said Kobe was the man we'd take to start our franchise. Who has more to back them? 8)
the 3peat lakers minus Shaq....might have still made the playoffs. But take Kobe off the team, and the team still had a chance to make the finals.
LOL...This is where the stupidity kicks in. 1995 Orlando Magic >>> 3peat Lakers minus Kobe.
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if 30 other GM's had to start with a franchise player i dont think all of em would pick kobe i can see some of em going with james or kg
Welll, I didn't make it up...It was a poll they had last year with all the GM's. All 30 said they'd pick Kobe to start their franchise.
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for the first half of your post....you might be right, no Kobe...no rings. But at the same time, no Shaq...no playoffs.
That's an horrible statement, from every point of view. First of all Jerry West traded everybody included their mama to sign Shaq. So he gave Shaq the keys of the team, and he did it for good. But, just to make you an example, the 1997-98 team had 3 players who went in the All Star Game other than Shaq: Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel and Kobe. It was the only team in the league with no 30+ years old players in the roster. It was a great team, who just had to develop into the 3peat one. I wouldnt go as far as saying no Shaq no playoffs: matter of fact the 1995-96 team, the one before Shaq, had a 53-wins record and the 2nd place in the Pacific Division spot. So no Shaq = 52 wins.
for the second half, this is where the problem comes into play when i argue with all these Laker fans. Somewhere along the line they seem to have gotten the idea that stats make u great. they dont. leading your team makes u great. if stats are how we judge greatness...then Magic is only the second greatest passer ever. Id put him at first, but the stats say Stockton. stats are great for basketball cards and ESPN "Did you knows" but they dont show who is really great or who is a real leader for their team. What im saying about Kobe is that he couldnt have made Cleveland a legitimate team like Lebron did this fast in his career.
A legitimate team? You mean LeBron made Cleveland a legitimate team by didnt reaching the Play Offs in the Eastern Conference for 2 straight years? Didn't know the real definition of "legitimate team" and the real meaning of "being the leader of a team". Now i do. Thank you LeBron!
Kobe during his first couple years showed talent, but definetely....DEFINETELY not the ability to lead.
He didnt have to. He was a rookie in a contender team runned by Shaq. He was the SG of the Lakers. Don't even compare it with the hopeless Cavs who signed LeBron to save them from being considered a total failure.
And last year, after how many years in the league...things were the same. He didnt lead. He got his stats...and thats it. Thats not greatness. Lebron honestly IMO did a better job LEADING his team last year then Kobe did his. And Lebron still has some work to do on his leadership skills. So where does that leave Kobe? This whole argument was about who u would take to start your franchise from this point on. I said id take Lebron cus his upside is FAR higher then Kobe's....from THIS point on. Lebron still has a ton of room to improve and he was an MVP candidate last year. Its rare that many players improve during the second half of their career and typically its big men if anything. So other then being a Kobe fan, how do people not see that he falls into the same category. Yeah, he COULD improve. Im not saying its impossible. Im saying i dont think his improvement (if any) would be so drastic that theyll win another championship without some SERIOUS help. Like it or not, he won those rings WITH Shaq. Shaq has gone to the finals with the Lakers and the Magic and Miami was in good position to last year. Kobe still has to prove he can even make the playoffs without Shaq.
Matter of fact LeBron too.
To think that Kobe, on the perimeter was somehow helping Shaq on the inside more then the other way around only shows a lack of basketball knowledge. Any coach in this league would take a dominant big man in the middle over a dominant perimeter player. Theres so many more matchup problems a dominant big man can create as well as setting up all his perimeter players. Kobe's game, like it or not, was drastically helped by Shaqs presence. Anyways, fuckit this is getting boring lol Me, Scittles and Jake have gone back and forth since the beginning of time on this and nothing ever changes. Ive always admitted that i like Kobe's game. But the Kobe fans cant seem to get it outta their heads that he isnt perfect, and he definetely isnt Jordan lol. He's good, but his little spoiled brat "give me all the spotlight" attitude will always give him this kind of negative attention.
What about the new commercial of Nike about Kobe? That attitude is never described by the media, uh?
first, i was talking about last year. Remember, one of these people im arguing with here is NIK who at the beginning of last year went on and on about how the Lakers would still be good because Kobe had good role players around him like Odom. Then, now....to defend Kobe says how he had no help.
second, where was cleveland the year before Lebron. at least they are contending now, even if it is only to get in the playoffs. and theyll for sure make it in next year where LA still might not.
Yeah, Kobe didnt HAVE to be a leader on the Lakers when he came in. But even the biggest Kobe dickrider on earth couldnt say that he had the mentality to be able to lead an NBA team his rookie...or even sophomore year. Not one person on EARTH who knows basketball would say that. That is my point.
Lebron too? Makes no sense. Neither Lebron or Kobe had help last year. Kobe is a veteran in this league....Lebron is still a kid. This argument on who is a better leader shouldnt even be able to be made. But it is, because of Kobe's lack of leadership skills and Lebrons maturity.
Like i said before, this argument is getting really boring. Its like arguing with some of these crazy religious fanatics about their religion. kobe is obviously your guys God lol. Sad...but true. During this argument ive even admitted i like his game, but there are negatives to him that made him and his team unsuccessful last year. You guys keep blaming everybody BUT him for any failures he has. Thats the definition of a dickrider...not a fan. As a fan, you see all aspects....positive AND negatives to whoever youre a fan of. Not ONE of you guys has admitted that there is ANYthing wrong with Kobe. He is perfect in your eyes. You gotta be kidding me...no matter how many points i prove, it wont matter. Christians cant prove the theory's of the Bible...but theyll always believe it no matter how many facts are against them. Oh well....keep worshipping u guys lol
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first, i was talking about last year. Remember, one of these people im arguing with here is NIK who at the beginning of last year went on and on about how the Lakers would still be good because Kobe had good role players around him like Odom. Then, now....to defend Kobe says how he had no help.
It's exactly the same excuse LeBron fans are saying to defend Cavs failure to reach the Play Offs for 2 straight years.
second, where was cleveland the year before Lebron. at least they are contending now, even if it is only to get in the playoffs. and theyll for sure make it in next year where LA still might not.
The team before LeBron didnt reached the Play Offs for 5 straight years. The team after LeBron havent reached them yet after 2 years. I see no differences at all. Now the only difference is that they have the most publicized player in the League and Cavs, once one of the worse NBA team in the League, is one of the most appealing because they always go to National TV and because LeBron is a media-star. But it's 7 years and running with no Play Offs. I'll listen to people talking about how a leader LeBron is the very first day he'll play a minute in the Play Offs.
Yeah, Kobe didnt HAVE to be a leader on the Lakers when he came in. But even the biggest Kobe dickrider on earth couldnt say that he had the mentality to be able to lead an NBA team his rookie...or even sophomore year. Not one person on EARTH who knows basketball would say that. That is my point.
Not an interesting one. Expecially since 10 years ago a rookie from High School was something "wrong" for the NBA. Something so strange that Kobe was like an alien, like a kid in a grown men's world. Now it's all about HS players, so they're more prepared, and the teams/the media/the teammates are more prepared. Kobe 10 years ago was like a non-American player in the NBA: something "strange" that people wasnt prepared for. He was like Tony Kukoc. People just refused to give him enought props because he was European, they always repeated "who's this European kid? He can't play like we do" to themselves. Even Jordan had problems accepting him. Kobe was like that: people refused to give him props and attention just because he was 18 years old. But no matter what he forced West to trade Eddie Jones, the fan fav player on the team, to reach a better minutage. Shit man now Bynum and Gerrard Green are receiving love and it looks like the most "normal" thing in the world that they was selected being 17-18. So to compare the two situations is not a good thing. Kobe entered the league 10 YEARS AGO. It was a totally different game/scenario. Plus he joined the Lakers, a contender team runned by Shaq. So he didnt have to be a leader from the first moment, since that wasnt "his" team. LeBron had to be the leader since day 1. Cause Cavs is "his" team. To compare the two scenarios is just stupid.
Lebron too? Makes no sense. Neither Lebron or Kobe had help last year. Kobe is a veteran in this league....Lebron is still a kid. This argument on who is a better leader shouldnt even be able to be made. But it is, because of Kobe's lack of leadership skills and Lebrons maturity.
That's just your opinion. 30 GM's + Nik and I thinks Kobe is the best player to build a team around.
Like i said before, this argument is getting really boring. Its like arguing with some of these crazy religious fanatics about their religion. kobe is obviously your guys God lol. Sad...but true. During this argument ive even admitted i like his game, but there are negatives to him that made him and his team unsuccessful last year. You guys keep blaming everybody BUT him for any failures he has. Thats the definition of a dickrider...not a fan. As a fan, you see all aspects....positive AND negatives to whoever youre a fan of. Not ONE of you guys has admitted that there is ANYthing wrong with Kobe. He is perfect in your eyes. You gotta be kidding me...no matter how many points i prove, it wont matter. Christians cant prove the theory's of the Bible...but theyll always believe it no matter how many facts are against them. Oh well....keep worshipping u guys lol
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if 30 other GM's had to start with a franchise player i dont think all of em would pick kobe i can see some of em going with james or kg
Welll, I didn't make it up...It was a poll they had last year with all the GM's. All 30 said they'd pick Kobe to start their franchise.
well, take the same poll this year and see what the results are lol. Btw...only one GM actually GOT to build their franchise around Kobe last year...maybe theyll sneak into the playoffs this year...lol
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But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.
30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)
at least one half of your statement is correct ;D
honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy :P
Half of my statement? It's a fact...They had a poll in the beginning of last season. They asked all the GMs which player in the NBA they'd choose to build their team around. All 30 picked Kobeas. You're stupid for saying Kobe is going downhill from here...Jordan was just beginning at Kobe's age. Kobe is still young, there is no way he's reached his full potential...Unless he gets seriously injured or something like that, but Kobe is the type of player who works every off-season to better himself...He will amaze...PeACe
If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful. As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno?
when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...". Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
No kidding, dumbass. It's obvious that LeBron developed at an earlier age than Kobe, that's all Magic was saying...How many fucking times have we heard Magic saying Kobe is the best player in the league by far, and praising Kobe as one of the greatests...So if you wanna bring Magic into this, you've just killed your whole argument by yourself...LeBron is just special as in he got to an all-star level right off the bat (being pushed on an extremely whack team, of course), but Kobe hss still accomplished so much more and is on a whole other level...Anyone who knows anything will tell you the same.
Magic is a Laker...i think you know that. Magic will support his player first. So its a much bigger deal for Magic to put someone on a higher platform once, then it would be for him to put Kobe on it 100 times. If Kobe was traded tomorrow for Lebron, Magic would turn around and say Lebron is the best player in the league. Its common sense. Lebron got "pushed" to an all star level how? You cant deny how good he is. Kobe was on just as wack a team, so it shoulda been easy for him to shine also. Lebron gets a lot of attention because in a league that seems to embrace the selfish, flashy, ballhog players....Lebron shined while being unselfish. Kobe could learn from him....
like i said, im not even a Lebron fan...also, as far as what Kobe has accomplished....not that much without Shaq.
What has Jordan accomplish without Pippen and Phil? LOL...You're a joke, you make no sense. You bring what Magic says into this, and then when I use that to prove you wrong, you try flipping everything. LeBron is still tryna' learn off players like Kobe, so what's even going through your mind when you're saying shit like "Kobe could learn from him"...LeBron came into the league HOPING to be the next Kobe. He was drafted by a team where he was the main source of offense and basically was the head of everything on the team. Yes, he was athletic enough to shine like a star, but he couldn't take his team anywhere not 1, but 2 seasons in a row. If Kareem Rush was drafted by the Cavs with the first pick, got all the media attention in the NBA, and pushed the same way LeBron was pushed, he'd be looking like a superstar too. It's all about the position you're placed in. Kobe came in the league backing up the star shooting guard of the team (Eddie Jones). Kareem Rush came in the league backing up the star shooting guard as well (Kobe)...It's all about where you are placed and how you handle it. LeBron is an excellent player, but he's no where NEAR Kobe's level. If you honestly believe that, go ahead...Kobe has proven greatness, it doesn't take a genius to see that...PeACe
how did you prove me wrong on the Magic issue? I gave you a QUOTE strait from him. And you argued it. Plain and simple. You cant prove me wrong on it, without saying that Magic was lying through his teeth.
As far as Kobe learning from him...cmon man, i know youre young...but youre not THAT young lol. EVERYone, i mean EVERYone can learn from somebody. Rookie....Veteran....it doesnt matter. There are veterans who might learn from Kobe even from time to time. I didnt say Kobe should pattern his whole entire game after Lebron. Im saying he could learn from Lebrons unselfishness. Obviously, neither of us are in their locker rooms. But i guarentee you (and if you actually played ball like u said u did, then you agree) that Lebrons teammates are happier playing with a player like him...then Kobe's would, playing with a player like him. Role players like playing with a star, who can carry them, but will allow others to shine also. As far as comparing the two at the beginning of their career....once again, the Magic quote. I only use it because i agree with it. Argue with me.....argue with Magic the Laker God. lol. If you think im wrong, then go ahead and say it NIK....Magic is a fuckin idiot.
LOL. I shot down every one of your arguments one by one, and this is all you have? I'm not arguing with Magic, I agree with him. LeBron is special as in he developed the quickest straight out of high school...He STILL is nowhere near Kobe. You think LeBron would like to be playing on the same team as Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, or Tracy McGrady right now? Hell no. What's your point, no superstar guard would like to play on the same team as another superstar who plays the same position. That doesn't equal winning, that equals heads clashing. LeBron has had everything to himself in Cleveland, he hasn't been put to the test yet. Remember that clean cut image Kobe had back in 2001? Everyone loved him, pretty much like everyone loves LeBron now...See, the point is that you don't base a player on their public image (LeBron is mature, LeBron is unselfish, etc.), you base them on their game and their accomplishments...Kobe has so much more to his name than LeBron. LeBron probably still looks up to Kobe like when he did in high school. He still probably watches Kobe tapes on replay from when LeBron was 14. Again, if you wanna go by what Magic says, Kobe is _____by far____ the best in the league... 8)PEACE
blah blah blah....blah blah lol. Jesus NIK...you disappoint me. Youre arguments always seem to look the same on this board. No matter who youre arguing with (which is basically everyone lol). You've only shot down as many points as youve had shot down yourself. This is a habit saying of yours over your 15 yrs here lol. You like to make yourself feel better by pretending youre winning an argument. We're arguing opinions here man, not facts. This argument is about who you would take to start your team with. I said id take Lebron over Kobe. You know im not a Lebron fan as it is, he wouldnt be my first pick and Im sure you know who that would be. My opinion of Kobe has stayed the same over the last 4-5 yrs or so and you know that. This isnt his "public image" lol. I dont give a shit if he rapes women...kills people...or whatever on his days off. I dont give a SHIT. Its his basketball maturity that i question, just like a lot of people....analysts included (since i KNOW you value their opinion more then your own). Yeah, it wouldnt be good for Lebron to be on a team with Wade, Bryant, T-Mac....etc right now. But the thing is, if he were....the coach (whoever it was) would MAKE it work. The starting lineup would be shuffled around until it worked. Someone would be changing positions to allow both to start. The Laker lineup wasnt shuffled around to let a rookie Kobe start. Not to mention, you said superstar. I liked Eddie Jones on those Laker squads....he was actually my favorite player on those teams. But....superstar? If you wanna put Eddie Jones in the same category with Kobe, T-Mac, and Wade.....then go ahead lol. You saying Lebron hasnt been put to the test? They basically placed the future of their franchise on a teenage kid! Kobe didnt have those pressures. All he had to do was sit and learn, and try not to fuck up when he got in the game his first 2 yrs. It wasnt put on his shoulders to resurrect a dying franchise or anything. Im not even really trying to argue that Lebron is such a better player then Kobe right now. Lebron is still new to the NBA really. But im arguing, and there is no way to argue this for u...that his upside is larger then Kobe's. If you dont agree with that, then youre saying that players improve more during the second half of their career....then they do during the first half of their career. lol. There is a reason the middle of your career is USUALLY referred to as your prime. Kobe has reached his prime, Lebron still has 2-3 yrs to reach his and Lebron was an MVP candidate last year. Yeah, Kobe has accomplished more...duh. But that wasnt what the argument was. If our argument is about the most "accomplished" ball players, then go ahead and agree with me that Duncan is more valuable then Kobe. But like i said, that wasnt our argument.
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first, i was talking about last year. Remember, one of these people im arguing with here is NIK who at the beginning of last year went on and on about how the Lakers would still be good because Kobe had good role players around him like Odom. Then, now....to defend Kobe says how he had no help.
It's exactly the same excuse LeBron fans are saying to defend Cavs failure to reach the Play Offs for 2 straight years.
second, where was cleveland the year before Lebron. at least they are contending now, even if it is only to get in the playoffs. and theyll for sure make it in next year where LA still might not.
The team before LeBron didnt reached the Play Offs for 5 straight years. The team after LeBron havent reached them yet after 2 years. I see no differences at all. Now the only difference is that they have the most publicized player in the League and Cavs, once one of the worse NBA team in the League, is one of the most appealing because they always go to National TV and because LeBron is a media-star. But it's 7 years and running with no Play Offs. I'll listen to people talking about how a leader LeBron is the very first day he'll play a minute in the Play Offs.
Yeah, Kobe didnt HAVE to be a leader on the Lakers when he came in. But even the biggest Kobe dickrider on earth couldnt say that he had the mentality to be able to lead an NBA team his rookie...or even sophomore year. Not one person on EARTH who knows basketball would say that. That is my point.
Not an interesting one. Expecially since 10 years ago a rookie from High School was something "wrong" for the NBA. Something so strange that Kobe was like an alien, like a kid in a grown men's world. Now it's all about HS players, so they're more prepared, and the teams/the media/the teammates are more prepared. Kobe 10 years ago was like a non-American player in the NBA: something "strange" that people wasnt prepared for. He was like Tony Kukoc. People just refused to give him enought props because he was European, they always repeated "who's this European kid? He can't play like we do" to themselves. Even Jordan had problems accepting him. Kobe was like that: people refused to give him props and attention just because he was 18 years old. But no matter what he forced West to trade Eddie Jones, the fan fav player on the team, to reach a better minutage. Shit man now Bynum and Gerrard Green are receiving love and it looks like the most "normal" thing in the world that they was selected being 17-18. So to compare the two situations is not a good thing. Kobe entered the league 10 YEARS AGO. It was a totally different game/scenario. Plus he joined the Lakers, a contender team runned by Shaq. So he didnt have to be a leader from the first moment, since that wasnt "his" team. LeBron had to be the leader since day 1. Cause Cavs is "his" team. To compare the two scenarios is just stupid.
Lebron too? Makes no sense. Neither Lebron or Kobe had help last year. Kobe is a veteran in this league....Lebron is still a kid. This argument on who is a better leader shouldnt even be able to be made. But it is, because of Kobe's lack of leadership skills and Lebrons maturity.
That's just your opinion. 30 GM's + Nik and I thinks Kobe is the best player to build a team around.
Like i said before, this argument is getting really boring. Its like arguing with some of these crazy religious fanatics about their religion. kobe is obviously your guys God lol. Sad...but true. During this argument ive even admitted i like his game, but there are negatives to him that made him and his team unsuccessful last year. You guys keep blaming everybody BUT him for any failures he has. Thats the definition of a dickrider...not a fan. As a fan, you see all aspects....positive AND negatives to whoever youre a fan of. Not ONE of you guys has admitted that there is ANYthing wrong with Kobe. He is perfect in your eyes. You gotta be kidding me...no matter how many points i prove, it wont matter. Christians cant prove the theory's of the Bible...but theyll always believe it no matter how many facts are against them. Oh well....keep worshipping u guys lol
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1. Yeah, but im not a Lebron fan. I wasnt pumping up the squad at the beginning...only to dog them in the end. That's NIKs game...
2. Reaching the playoffs is a big deal, as is winning a championship. But improvement is what youre looking for in a team. You cant say that the Cavs arent a more respected team now then they were 3 yrs ago. More then likely they will make the playoffs next year. You have to remember tho, this is a historically bad franchise. With the Lakers, Kobe can just try and "hold on" until he eventually gets some real help. Who knows if the Cavs will ever get Lebron any.
3. Kobe wasnt the first player strait out of highschool....newsflash!
4. Well, like i said to NIK...one GM who had Kobe on their franchise....as well as you and NIK i guess had a pretty disappointing year last year. As for that poll, i dont remember it. If you have a link NIK post it up man.
4. Yeah, this argument IS getting boring. You guys are pretty blind homie. Ive admitted Kobe can play. Ive even admitted he is one of the better players in the league. But you guys are so busy being cheerleaders for the guy that u dont see ANY of his faults lol. If the guy was perfect, they would have at LEAST reached the playoffs last year.
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Kobe is the best SG in the league, plain and simple. He's not "perfect", nobody is. Last year the Lakers had a lot of problems:
1- Odom was forced to play PF. He can play some nice offence from the post, but he doesnt have the ability to be a defensive stopper from that position, and he cant stop the penetrations of the guards, since he aint a good shot blocker. That created a defensive hole.
2- Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown (not to mention Sasha Vujacic) are in the Top 10 list of the worse defensive PG last season. Plain and simple, they just wasnt able to defend. Everybody and their moma made season-high games against them. It's a fact. They let everybody penetrate, and without a good intidimator inside, it was like Heaven for the opponents. Another great defensive hole.
3- Kobe Bryant had to take care of the whole attack, so he had to waste a lot of energy in offence. He needed some help from other people in defence, since usually he had Horry and Shaq inside who made his defence better. With Odom and Mihm didnt feel comfortable in defence, since nobody doubled his player, and nobody really was an intimidator inside. Another defensive hole.
4- Rudy T. doesnt know the definition of "defence". Plain and simple. The biggest defensive hole.
5- We had B.Cook, Medvedenko and Luke Walton as our best bench players. C'mon now! They cant even defend themselves during pratice.
LAKERS MISSED A GOOD DEFENSIVE-MINDED COACH, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PF, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PG, AND, IN GENERAL, THEY MISSED SOME CREDIBILITY.
Now they have a pretty good defensive-minded PF in Brown (i aint a fan of him, but he's better than Odom as a defensive factor in the PF spot), two backup Centers in Bynum and Divac (ok, they aint superstars, but it's better than Medvedenko, isnt it?), two defensive-minded SF in George and Jumaine Jones, two defensive-minded PG in McKie and Smush Parker, and the best coach in the League. Judge Kobe from the next season. And in 2007, when Lakers will be contenders.
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Kobe is the best SG in the league, plain and simple. He's not "perfect", nobody is. Last year the Lakers had a lot of problems:
1- Odom was forced to play PF. He can play some nice offence from the post, but he doesnt have the ability to be a defensive stopper from that position, and he cant stop the penetrations of the guards, since he aint a good shot blocker. That created a defensive hole.
2- Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown (not to mention Sasha Vujacic) are in the Top 10 list of the worse defensive PG last season. Plain and simple, they just wasnt able to defend. Everybody and their moma made season-high games against them. It's a fact. They let everybody penetrate, and without a good intidimator inside, it was like Heaven for the opponents. Another great defensive hole.
3- Kobe Bryant had to take care of the whole attack, so he had to waste a lot of energy in offence. He needed some help from other people in defence, since usually he had Horry and Shaq inside who made his defence better. With Odom and Mihm didnt feel comfortable in defence, since nobody doubled his player, and nobody really was an intimidator inside. Another defensive hole.
4- Rudy T. doesnt know the definition of "defence". Plain and simple. The biggest defensive hole.
5- We had B.Cook, Medvedenko and Luke Walton as our best bench players. C'mon now! They cant even defend themselves during pratice.
LAKERS MISSED A GOOD DEFENSIVE-MINDED COACH, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PF, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PG, AND, IN GENERAL, THEY MISSED SOME CREDIBILITY.
Now they have a pretty good defensive-minded PF in Brown (i aint a fan of him, but he's better than Odom as a defensive factor in the PF spot), two backup Centers in Bynum and Divac (ok, they aint superstars, but it's better than Medvedenko, isnt it?), two defensive-minded SF in George and Jumaine Jones, two defensive-minded PG in McKie and Smush Parker, and the best coach in the League. Judge Kobe from the next season. And in 2007, when Lakers will be contenders.
im pretty much done with this argument. its getting silly and just back and forth bullshit that isnt going anywhere. bottom line, IMO you guys seem to be more Kobe fans....then Laker fans. Thats cool if thats the case, but just be real about it. You guys always make excuses as to why the team sucked last year other then say that MAYBE....just MAYBE Kobe didnt do all he should have as the teams leader. its always somebody else. my argument about THAT, is based on NIK...aswell as a lot of Laker fans who at the beginning of last year defended their team saying their supporting cast was good. They had a potential All-Star in Odom...and other positions were filled. Your guys' opinions seem to completely mirror whatever the Laker front office's opinions are. Then, after the season...turn around to say "Kobe had no one all year". Yeah, im not doubting the team had problems. But i didnt see that Kobe was perfect all year either. There are things he can do to improve himself. If you guys dont agree, then you ARE saying he's perfect. Like i said before, this isnt based on last year alone. This is based on what ive ALWAYS thought of Kobe. He rode Shaq, period. Teams doubled Shaq his whole career...the whole time he is on the floor. It was rare teams played him strait up. Yes, Kobe is one of the best perimeter players in the league. Combine his skill, with the open looks and wide open lanes that Shaq was creating with the double teams...and you have a perimeter player that can look unstoppable. Kobe needs to learn how to play as the main focus now. Like it or not, with Shaq there...Kobe was NOT the main focus for defenses. Your main focus is gonna be the 7 ft, 300 somethin pound guy 3 feet from the basket....not the guy 20 feet from the basket. Why i put Lebron where i do in this argument. Lebron is young, barring injury probably has a long career ahead of him. You cant deny how good he is at such a young age. An MVP candidate in only his second year...and on his team, he is the man. He is the main guy. Its his team...win or lose, its on his shoulders. Kobe...experienced this for the first time last year, halfway through his career. So they are both learning the same thing as far as being the main focus on their teams. They are both learning it....and Lebron is only in his second year. Obviously, Kobe is the veteran. He obviously has been through things in the league that Lebron hasnt yet. But Lebron will go through those things, and will already have been through this process of learning to lead his team when he does. Is Kobe a stronger player right NOW, probably so. Will Lebron be stronger within 2 years, i think so.
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^^^you're so damn right.
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first, i was talking about last year. Remember, one of these people im arguing with here is NIK who at the beginning of last year went on and on about how the Lakers would still be good because Kobe had good role players around him like Odom. Then, now....to defend Kobe says how he had no help.
See, you need to step your game up. I can demolish you just from the opening lines. I said Lakers would be a playoff team if everything went as planned. If Rudy-T could get the players to build chemistry and play together as a team. First half of the year, Lakers remained in the playoffs for months. Then they just begin building chemistry. Rudy-T suddenly steps down, everything goes down hill. Kobe's injured, Odom's injured, Vlade doesn't play, Malone bitches and doesn't sign, Grants playing gimpy, basically, nothing went according to plan. In the beginning of last season, yes, I said Lakers were a playoff team. After all the bs the team had went through, I made a thread (around March or April) stating that I don't believe the Lakers will reach the playoffs in their current state...I am real as they come, everything I speak is real. Anyone saying LeBron is on Kobe's level doesn't know their shit...That's all there is to it...LOL
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Kobe is the best SG in the league, plain and simple. He's not "perfect", nobody is. Last year the Lakers had a lot of problems:
1- Odom was forced to play PF. He can play some nice offence from the post, but he doesnt have the ability to be a defensive stopper from that position, and he cant stop the penetrations of the guards, since he aint a good shot blocker. That created a defensive hole.
2- Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown (not to mention Sasha Vujacic) are in the Top 10 list of the worse defensive PG last season. Plain and simple, they just wasnt able to defend. Everybody and their moma made season-high games against them. It's a fact. They let everybody penetrate, and without a good intidimator inside, it was like Heaven for the opponents. Another great defensive hole.
3- Kobe Bryant had to take care of the whole attack, so he had to waste a lot of energy in offence. He needed some help from other people in defence, since usually he had Horry and Shaq inside who made his defence better. With Odom and Mihm didnt feel comfortable in defence, since nobody doubled his player, and nobody really was an intimidator inside. Another defensive hole.
4- Rudy T. doesnt know the definition of "defence". Plain and simple. The biggest defensive hole.
5- We had B.Cook, Medvedenko and Luke Walton as our best bench players. C'mon now! They cant even defend themselves during pratice.
LAKERS MISSED A GOOD DEFENSIVE-MINDED COACH, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PF, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PG, AND, IN GENERAL, THEY MISSED SOME CREDIBILITY.
Now they have a pretty good defensive-minded PF in Brown (i aint a fan of him, but he's better than Odom as a defensive factor in the PF spot), two backup Centers in Bynum and Divac (ok, they aint superstars, but it's better than Medvedenko, isnt it?), two defensive-minded SF in George and Jumaine Jones, two defensive-minded PG in McKie and Smush Parker, and the best coach in the League. Judge Kobe from the next season. And in 2007, when Lakers will be contenders.
im pretty much done with this argument. its getting silly and just back and forth bullshit that isnt going anywhere. bottom line, IMO you guys seem to be more Kobe fans....then Laker fans. Thats cool if thats the case, but just be real about it. You guys always make excuses as to why the team sucked last year other then say that MAYBE....just MAYBE Kobe didnt do all he should have as the teams leader. its always somebody else. my argument about THAT, is based on NIK...aswell as a lot of Laker fans who at the beginning of last year defended their team saying their supporting cast was good. They had a potential All-Star in Odom...and other positions were filled. Your guys' opinions seem to completely mirror whatever the Laker front office's opinions are. Then, after the season...turn around to say "Kobe had no one all year". Yeah, im not doubting the team had problems. But i didnt see that Kobe was perfect all year either. There are things he can do to improve himself. If you guys dont agree, then you ARE saying he's perfect. Like i said before, this isnt based on last year alone. This is based on what ive ALWAYS thought of Kobe. He rode Shaq, period. Teams doubled Shaq his whole career...the whole time he is on the floor. It was rare teams played him strait up. Yes, Kobe is one of the best perimeter players in the league. Combine his skill, with the open looks and wide open lanes that Shaq was creating with the double teams...and you have a perimeter player that can look unstoppable. Kobe needs to learn how to play as the main focus now. Like it or not, with Shaq there...Kobe was NOT the main focus for defenses. Your main focus is gonna be the 7 ft, 300 somethin pound guy 3 feet from the basket....not the guy 20 feet from the basket. Why i put Lebron where i do in this argument. Lebron is young, barring injury probably has a long career ahead of him. You cant deny how good he is at such a young age. An MVP candidate in only his second year...and on his team, he is the man. He is the main guy. Its his team...win or lose, its on his shoulders. Kobe...experienced this for the first time last year, halfway through his career. So they are both learning the same thing as far as being the main focus on their teams. They are both learning it....and Lebron is only in his second year. Obviously, Kobe is the veteran. He obviously has been through things in the league that Lebron hasnt yet. But Lebron will go through those things, and will already have been through this process of learning to lead his team when he does. Is Kobe a stronger player right NOW, probably so. Will Lebron be stronger within 2 years, i think so.
I'm more of a Kobe fan than a Laker fan? You just lost all the fuckin' credibility you had, I was down with the Lake Show from the day I was born. Bottom line is, by the end of Kobe's career, he will be a top 10, maybe top 5 player. Hell, analysts have argued he could end up the greatest, and I agree there's a chance. LeBron? He'll be lucky to get into the top 50 greatest players by the end of his career. I don't see him winning a ring without a top notch supporting cast, which will most likely be never...Kobe, I believe he still has it in him to win rings, and the Lakers have a history of always coming out on top...Kobe has more to his name than LeBron, Kobe's worth more than LeBron, Kobe DOES have more of an upside to him...At this age, Jordan was just beginning his legacy. Kobe's already a proven winner, a proven great, he resists the pressure, he's been through that shit...If he's still on his way up, which he should be since he's only 27, then LeBron doesn't have a chance...PeACe