West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: acbaylove on September 25, 2005, 06:56:24 PM
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C'mon guys, we just need one!
There is no debate. Or is there?
"I traded for Jason Williams because we needed a starting point guard," Heat President Pat Riley said Friday.
That trade, of course, was back on Aug. 2, when Gary Payton still was perceived as a big-ticket item in free agency, one seemingly beyond the Heat's grasp.
Now Payton is here. And now the issue could be how Williams reacts to the latest in a career-long string of challenges.
During his final year with the Kings, Williams often lost out on meaningful late-game minutes to Bobby Jackson. Then, over the past three years in Memphis, those same crucial minutes often were spent on the bench in favor of Earl Watson.
Now a future Hall of Famer is waiting in the wings.
"I don't think your best players or most talented or most versatile players will necessarily start," Riley said the day after signing Payton.
While that might have worked with Riley's championship Lakers, when Kurt Rambis, clearly an inferior talent, started ahead of Bob McAdoo, this is a different era. Starters now are greeted by fireworks, lasers, video tributes, semi-naked dancers. Reserves are mumbled into action during stoppages.
While Williams, at 29, clearly has the younger legs, Payton, at 37, hardly enters Stan Van Gundy's training camp at a comparative disadvantage.
Last season, with both playing as starters, Payton averaged more points (11.3 to 10.1), rebounds (3.1-1.7), assists (6.1-5.6) and steals (1.14-1.06), shot far better from the field (.468-.413) and slightly better on 3-pointers (.326-.324). Granted Payton did it in an average of 33 minutes a game to 27.5 for Williams, but that also spoke to the confidence from their respective coaches in Boston and Memphis.
With Williams under contract for three more years at more than $24 million, and with Payton on a one-year deal at the $1.1 million minimum, there are far too many considerations for the front office to encourage open competition.
Riley said the right thing last week: "It's whatever Stan wants and whoever he sees is in the best interest."
But it's about more than that. It's about Riley, from the top of the organization, making it work with a rotation of those who have almost exclusively played as starters most of their careers, be it Payton, Antoine Walker, James Posey or even Alonzo Mourning.
Riley, in fact, sounded none too pleased to learn Walker recently told ESPN.com, "I've never come off the bench in my career, so I'm not even looking at that as a possible option."
"There's not going to be any issue about who starts, who plays at the end of the game," Riley said. "The less they talk about it, the better it will be."
Should Walker emerge as starting power forward, Udonis Haslem likely would thrive off the bench, a role from which he emerged two years ago as a rookie.
Should Walker start at small forward, Posey already has proved a capable reserve.
But the Williams situation is different. Too many games have been played in recent years with the former Gators guard looking over his shoulder. By not bringing back incumbent starter Damon Jones, the Heat seemingly defused that issue. Now, with Payton in place, a player who has not played as a reserve in more than a decade, how can a healthy debate not ensue?
"To me," Riley said, "Jason Williams is probably the guy we're going to start."
So, in essence, Williams' Heat tenure begins punctuated the same way his Grizzlies tenure ended -- with a question mark.
Apparently, among the reasons it took so long for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to be added as a coaching consultant by the Lakers was their concern that Shaquille O'Neal might not have appreciated such mentoring. "In the last 10 years, we did not have a group that would have been as receptive," General Manager Mitch Kupchak said. ...
Can't wait till the preseason starts! Shaq will be thrilled when he's not even past the halfcourt when Walker launches a fadeaway 3.
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wow laker fans are still bitter
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C'mon guys, we just need one!
There is no debate. Or is there?
"I traded for Jason Williams because we needed a starting point guard," Heat President Pat Riley said Friday.
That trade, of course, was back on Aug. 2, when Gary Payton still was perceived as a big-ticket item in free agency, one seemingly beyond the Heat's grasp.
Now Payton is here. And now the issue could be how Williams reacts to the latest in a career-long string of challenges.
During his final year with the Kings, Williams often lost out on meaningful late-game minutes to Bobby Jackson. Then, over the past three years in Memphis, those same crucial minutes often were spent on the bench in favor of Earl Watson.
Now a future Hall of Famer is waiting in the wings.
"I don't think your best players or most talented or most versatile players will necessarily start," Riley said the day after signing Payton.
While that might have worked with Riley's championship Lakers, when Kurt Rambis, clearly an inferior talent, started ahead of Bob McAdoo, this is a different era. Starters now are greeted by fireworks, lasers, video tributes, semi-naked dancers. Reserves are mumbled into action during stoppages.
While Williams, at 29, clearly has the younger legs, Payton, at 37, hardly enters Stan Van Gundy's training camp at a comparative disadvantage.
Last season, with both playing as starters, Payton averaged more points (11.3 to 10.1), rebounds (3.1-1.7), assists (6.1-5.6) and steals (1.14-1.06), shot far better from the field (.468-.413) and slightly better on 3-pointers (.326-.324). Granted Payton did it in an average of 33 minutes a game to 27.5 for Williams, but that also spoke to the confidence from their respective coaches in Boston and Memphis.
With Williams under contract for three more years at more than $24 million, and with Payton on a one-year deal at the $1.1 million minimum, there are far too many considerations for the front office to encourage open competition.
Riley said the right thing last week: "It's whatever Stan wants and whoever he sees is in the best interest."
But it's about more than that. It's about Riley, from the top of the organization, making it work with a rotation of those who have almost exclusively played as starters most of their careers, be it Payton, Antoine Walker, James Posey or even Alonzo Mourning.
Riley, in fact, sounded none too pleased to learn Walker recently told ESPN.com, "I've never come off the bench in my career, so I'm not even looking at that as a possible option."
"There's not going to be any issue about who starts, who plays at the end of the game," Riley said. "The less they talk about it, the better it will be."
Should Walker emerge as starting power forward, Udonis Haslem likely would thrive off the bench, a role from which he emerged two years ago as a rookie.
Should Walker start at small forward, Posey already has proved a capable reserve.
But the Williams situation is different. Too many games have been played in recent years with the former Gators guard looking over his shoulder. By not bringing back incumbent starter Damon Jones, the Heat seemingly defused that issue. Now, with Payton in place, a player who has not played as a reserve in more than a decade, how can a healthy debate not ensue?
"To me," Riley said, "Jason Williams is probably the guy we're going to start."
So, in essence, Williams' Heat tenure begins punctuated the same way his Grizzlies tenure ended -- with a question mark.
Apparently, among the reasons it took so long for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to be added as a coaching consultant by the Lakers was their concern that Shaquille O'Neal might not have appreciated such mentoring. "In the last 10 years, we did not have a group that would have been as receptive," General Manager Mitch Kupchak said. ...
Can't wait till the preseason starts! Shaq will be thrilled when he's not even past the halfcourt when Walker launches a fadeaway 3.
yeah, mixing all these players might be tough...but they will still be the favorites in the East.
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Ha!
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Heat will have no chemistry what so ever this year, its gonna be like that dallas team with walker a couple years ago
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You guys dickryde Shaq too much. It's just a topic to make fun of him and his fat ass.
wow laker fans are still bitter
I don't hate other people with no reasons. Shaq is the guy who's still dissing Buss and the Lakers like a child, because he got traded.
Shaq is the one promising a ring to his "new" fans, and he's the one being eliminated by a team who chosed not to double him.
Shaq is the guy who promised "another" (LMAO) ring this summer. And he's imo the one who'll be eliminated again, in the next post-season.
So i think it's not a problem if i make fun of him?
Yes, i've enjoyed watching the Heat collapse, and i'll enjoy watching Shaq being overplayed by Wallace again, and again.
But since i know some of you will not like it (Shaq is the anti-Laker, so you Laker haters simply love him now), i'll just use this topic for the whole season to make fun of them.
You can do the same with the Lakers, if you want to.
yeah, mixing all these players might be tough...but they will still be the favorites in the East.
Indiana > Detroit >>>>>>>>>> Heat
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yeah i hate the heat but if they wanted to win the championship they shouldve just tweaked the team and they wouldve been well off....they just overhauled and stacked it with talent....the thing that sucks is that they got a team fuill of cancers in payton, shaq, walker and williams.....even though i hate dwayne wade hes a pretty humble dude but thats just for now because he had his breakout season last year....wait in a few years...
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it's as simple as GP and Walker being on the same team, just having them on the roster will guarantee no championship, period.
just cuz they want the ball and so does Shaq and so does Wade and so does Williams........... and because they're good chemistry killers ;D
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Let's face facts. Heat have too many all-stars. Lakers have too few all-stars. Heat will be much better than the Lakers next season. Having too many all-stars is a luxery-problem.
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^ Man you should remember them Mavs, dont you?
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this heat team is no better than last year's team so what makes them the favorite in the east when they couldn't even beat detroit?
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LMAO...The Heat are doomed. I actually feel very sorry for Dwayne Wade. This shit could really fuck up his development. I forsee a drama filled season in Miami, with
"Hollywood" "Miami Beach" Shaq as the lead role... :-X
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^ Man you should remember them Mavs, dont you?
:'(
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Anyway let me go OT for once: congratulations to Dirk! He was been (FINALLY!) fantastic in the European Championship.
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For one, Wallace never outplayed Shaq ever, peeps keep sayin that but look at Shaq's numbers and look at Ben's numbers in the past two years they met, second, Shaq is a guy who isnt afraid to dish it off if hes double teamed, he'll share the ball, but normally hes playing against an inferior so he makes a move and scores, just because he averages 26 for his career doesnt mean hes a ball hog, its just the smart play to dump it into Shaq, Laker fans need to stop being bitter about Shaq leaving, life goes on
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^^^who's bitter? shaq's the one who's been acting like a bitter faggot all year..he's supposed to be a business man,but yet he's acting like a faggot when Dr.Buss made a business decision to trade his unmotivated ass
Ben Wallace>>>>>shaq ,,,shaq can't hang with Big Ben 8)
Ps
a big % of Laker fans wanted to keep kobe over shaq if it came down to who get's the money b/c shaq wasn't going to take a pay cut/bow down to the kid he treated like shit before phil got there,that would of ment shaq lost,if he did
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For one, Wallace never outplayed Shaq ever, peeps keep sayin that but look at Shaq's numbers and look at Ben's numbers in the past two years they met, second, Shaq is a guy who isnt afraid to dish it off if hes double teamed, he'll share the ball, but normally hes playing against an inferior so he makes a move and scores, just because he averages 26 for his career doesnt mean hes a ball hog, its just the smart play to dump it into Shaq, Laker fans need to stop being bitter about Shaq leaving, life goes on
For one, Wallace outrebounded Shaq and defended him 1 on 1 with no double teams. Second, like i said, it's Shaq who needs to stop being bitter, cause he's the only one who's still talking about the Lakers.
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FUCK THE HEAT & THEIR FAGGOT ASS FANS.
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^^^who's bitter? shaq's the one who's been acting like a bitter faggot all year..he's supposed to be a business man,but yet he's acting like a faggot when Dr.Buss made a business decision to trade his unmotivated ass
Ben Wallace>>>>>shaq ,,,shaq can't hang with Big Ben 8)
Ps
a big % of Laker fans wanted to keep kobe over shaq if it came down to who get's the money b/c shaq wasn't going to take a pay cut/bow down to the kid he treated like shit before phil got there,that would of ment shaq lost,if he did
umm...didnt shaq demand a trade???..lol....both the lakers and the heat will be better this year than last but the heat are still going somewhere while the lakers will probrably just be happy making the playoffs again.....dont mean to hate and all but shit when the lakers got stacked with Karl and everyone else...everyone was like oh shit for sure championship and so forth now those same people are saying the complete opposite about miami gettin stacked....i really see miami takin a championship before the lakers do at this moment....
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^^^who's bitter? shaq's the one who's been acting like a bitter faggot all year..he's supposed to be a business man,but yet he's acting like a faggot when Dr.Buss made a business decision to trade his unmotivated ass
Ben Wallace>>>>>shaq ,,,shaq can't hang with Big Ben 8)
Ps
a big % of Laker fans wanted to keep kobe over shaq if it came down to who get's the money b/c shaq wasn't going to take a pay cut/bow down to the kid he treated like shit before phil got there,that would of ment shaq lost,if he did
umm...didnt shaq demand a trade???..lol....both the lakers and the heat will be better this year than last but the heat are still going somewhere while the lakers will probrably just be happy making the playoffs again.....dont mean to hate and all but shit when the lakers got stacked with Karl and everyone else...everyone was like oh shit for sure championship and so forth now those same people are saying the complete opposite about miami gettin stacked....i really see miami takin a championship before the lakers do at this moment....
Maybe, but put the Lakers in the east and their chances would be higher...I believe in the Lakers, it's what being a fan is about...
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^^Fag^^
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a big % of Laker fans wanted to keep kobe over shaq if it came down to who get's the money b/c shaq wasn't going to take a pay cut/bow down to the kid he treated like shit before phil got there,that would of ment shaq lost,if he did
umm...didnt shaq demand a trade???..lol...
no,that was apart of the Spin,Shaq saying "i want to be traded,i want to get out of the sinking titanic" Dr.Buss had already made his disicion to trade him when he didn't except a contract extention in feburary,& mitch even said that shaq is tradeble 2 days after we lost to the Pistons & then the next day shaq spined it talking about "i want to be traded" shaq is a fucking moron,he got butthurt big time that kobe was now the franchise player and not him ;D ....so "Snaqs" :D had to make himself look good by saying some shit like that("i want to be traded,i want to get out of the sinking titanic")& shaq knows he can't get paid 30 mill $ a year and give kobe his big contract that he was going to finally get.
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Let's face facts. Heat have too many all-stars. Lakers have too few all-stars. Heat will be much better than the Lakers next season. Having too many all-stars is a luxery-problem.
Just because they have all those good players dosen't mean shit...do you remember when the blazers were stacked with talent years ago? look what happen to them...
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Let's face facts. Heat have too many all-stars. Lakers have too few all-stars. Heat will be much better than the Lakers next season. Having too many all-stars is a luxery-problem.
Just because they have all those good players dosen't mean shit...do you remember when the blazers were stacked with talent years ago? look what happen to them...
Yea, Yankees proved that you can't buy a championship. Still, saying that Lakers will have a better record next year is probably in the top 10 for most retarded comments ever on WCC.