West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: LyRiCaL_G on January 11, 2006, 06:18:55 AM
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i mean c'mon y'all gotta admit, warren g is a low bugdet sounding washed up 2D producer......i mean he a legend, i got luv for warren, but he cant make hits no mo............sha money xl and jelly roll twice as good as he is now,lol....i mean they may never make a hit as big as warren did back in the day, but warren didnt evolve......now i aint sayin cats like sha money and jelly are sick or anything, but i was just thinking of 2 producers, who aint really known well but are up to date with their sounds..
eastcoast got nuff producers.....and they got the superproducer who produces for most ppl.........southcoast got nice some producers and they got the superproducer in lil jon to who producers for nuff cats, like he aint hard to get, as with the neptunes or kanye on the east...
but now westcoast got a supersuper producer in dr dre, who i mean done everything in the game, so he only produces for some cats, take twice as long, cuy he sound varies for each artist and it usually ends up huge.......but his real hard to get at.......even for his own stable...and then after dre who is their?.........fredwreck will make a couple of joints on a album, but he needs some real club bangers to get really started and he aint got that.....have a party is not all that.....and dj quik.......but is he gonna make u big hits...quik a guy u need to get on when u making a certain type of album or someone to make joints which are sick but may not always get released........so whos left? nobody.......daz aint shit, warren g aint shit.....jelly roll noone knows what gonna be next from him.......
everycoast got producers who are with the times and able to make real club hits or even simply hard beats which are sick, with the times..........but on the leftcoast, they either washed up or still tryna perfect dres 2001 style...shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
plus westcoast imo needs a neptunes, liljon, kanye type figure, whos mash out hits for joke and easy to access......someone whos new but sick
just my 2 cents
peace
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I completley agree,especially about Warren G.I think that this Neptunes,Kanye style producers are Dj Khalil and J.Wells.
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I agree ..... warren need to give somethin new. I still believe in daz: he gave us some great song as a producer but he should work in less project and keep the best things for a single project.
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its not the producers... ITS THE RECORD LABELS
u want somebody to blow up , but the record labels are the machines behind everything they want the South to blow up its not the wests turn. there have been plenty of records out on the west that could've blown up, look at that sly boogie record its nuthin produced by scott storch, only play that got was on the west coast for example.
right now the south is in #1 spot , even daz said it himself its hard to get a record label to believe in you nowadays
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Don't tell me Get You Down wasn't good production. Although I have to admit Warren's stuff lately isn't what it used to be, I still say he can bring it. Just not as consistently as he used to. In my personal opinion Daz isn't coming off as good today as Warren G is. And Daz got one major problem as I can see it: he's doing way too many projects at the same time. When you do it like he's doing it - producing what, ten tracks a day, without really perfecting them - you get a bunch of mediocre shit.
Quik - the only negative thing about Quik is the fact that rappers just don't get him to do production. He can deliver whatever flavour you want for your record and make some classic shit, but muthafuckas just don't get at him. I was positively pleased when Jigga got him for the Black Album. Seriously, sometimes I think industry fools are straight up dumb for not getting at DJ Quik.
Jelly Roll tight? Man, he ain't all that to me. He's made a couple cool tracks, but usually his stuff weirds me the fuck out. Like for example - the track he's got on the new Biggie album and the shit he had on D.O.C.'s "Deuce" album are the type of tracks I like. But his shit like "Saturday Night Live" just makes me push the skip button on my stereo. And Sha Money... Pfff... Mediocre at best.
I see what you're saying though, other areas seem to have more those "easy access, mash out hits" type of dudes as L_G put it. But at the same time I feel that dudes from the West aren't using all the production resources that's available to them. Soopafly, Battlecat, Fredwreck, Quik, Warren... There's actually quite a lot of quality dudes from the West that can produce you that bomb ass record. They just need to be holla'd at. I mean, somebody like Soopafly could probably bring a fresh breath of air to music right now, when the Neptunes and Scott Storch are on everybody's record. "Bangin' Westcoast" was something I'd like to hear on the charts now too, not the same ol' same ol' you got right now. Not that most of the A-list dudes are bad as such, I mean I enjoy Kanye's stuff and all, but you catch my drift, right?
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That's why I had that thread a few months ago, askin if the West Coast needs to revolutionize it's sound.
I only know of a few LA producers who have a sound that could probably appeal to the nation, one is named Golden Eye and he is a bit known in LA but not much outside. Most producers in LA seem to sample a lot and try to sound like Kanye but with a lot less success, and some tend to have a sound that is too stereotypically west coast. As far as the Bay, a LOT of their music sounds like it could be straight from the south, especially from Tampa Bay. With them, if the record companies decided to push that, I am sure their sound would hit everybody. I think Rick Rock is the best overall producer on the west as far as makin commercial and club type of shit.
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I completley agree,especially about Warren G.I think that this Neptunes,Kanye style producers are Dj Khalil and J.Wells.
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The problem is rappers today grew up on rap and dont really have an ear for MUSIC, they have an ear and a mind for lyrics, but are lost when it comes to the actual music aspect of it. Couple that with the fact that damn near every body is some low budget rapper using off brand beats from their local bedroom fruity loop beat man because they either cant or wont pay for quality and there you have it. Seriously, how can Dre and Rick Rock be the only Cali producers capable of making hits? Cali is the most populated state in the country and you mean to tell me only 2 guys have any talent? I dont think so.
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I disagree. Producers such as quik and battlecat have constantly been improving the west coast sound. We don't have a hit becuz of the labels. It's all about the labels...if we could get major labels...I believe we would have a hit in an instant. For an example quik's album Trauma...imagine if he was on a major label...I have little doubts he would have blown up. I think people are underestimatin the importance of havin major labels behind us. We been improvin our sound, been havin new rappers come out wit lyrical skills...it's just the MAJOR LABELS.
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^^exactly
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I don't listen to westcoast music for no gangbanging bullshit stories, I listen to westcoast music for the production. Period.
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its not the producers... ITS THE RECORD LABELS
u want somebody to blow up , but the record labels are the machines behind everything they want the South to blow up its not the wests turn. there have been plenty of records out on the west that could've blown up, look at that sly boogie record its nuthin produced by scott storch, only play that got was on the west coast for example.
right now the south is in #1 spot , even daz said it himself its hard to get a record label to believe in you nowadays
I've got to agree abot sly,man.I haven't had the chance ti listen to his shit thouroughly,but its nuthin, thats my name (both Storch produced and storch has really outdone himself with those two if you ask me) and a couple of other tracks were very good.
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Terrace Martin Is on his way to the top, this dude is very talented, and he's a cool dude, You cant really describe his style though, because he's versatile, he can give u somethin a la "Battlecat" (LaToiya Williams' Happy) or something strictly for the clubs ( Tiffany Foxx Shake That Shit)
and its fact That The West Coast sounds Needs to change, because when people Think about the west, they think about the claps, they think about the hands in the air, they think about the whistle, in other words they think about The past, and Its also sad that they associate Gangbanging To West Coast music, because in my opinion west coast music aint only about that, U have people strugglin and they talk about real life situations, some real stuff that people can relate to.
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Fans -> Emcees/Producers
The emcee's and Producers aren't changing up cuz the fans aren't changing up. Look at Dubcc, the moment something G-Funk comes about, people go nuts. Anything different is described as "Wack," "East Coast," or get's no attention. The South isn't making Bass Music no more and you don't see fans hanging on to that. You don't see the East Coast making Boom Bap, nor do you see their fans hanging on it. The West Coast fans need to mature and realize that G-Funk died years ago. It's not coming back.
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Its true though everytime someone is coming up with sumthin new the Fans are hating
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I disagree. Producers such as quik and battlecat have constantly been improving the west coast sound. We don't have a hit becuz of the labels. It's all about the labels...if we could get major labels...I believe we would have a hit in an instant. For an example quik's album Trauma...imagine if he was on a major label...I have little doubts he would have blown up. I think people are underestimatin the importance of havin major labels behind us. We been improvin our sound, been havin new rappers come out wit lyrical skills...it's just the MAJOR LABELS.
How did Battlecat improve?His beats are the same for the past few years.
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The problem is rappers today grew up on rap and dont really have an ear for MUSIC, they have an ear and a mind for lyrics, but are lost when it comes to the actual music aspect of it. Couple that with the fact that damn near every body is some low budget rapper using off brand beats from their local bedroom fruity loop beat man because they either cant or wont pay for quality and there you have it. Seriously, how can Dre and Rick Rock be the only Cali producers capable of making hits? Cali is the most populated state in the country and you mean to tell me only 2 guys have any talent? I dont think so.
Gotta agre with this post.
if we could get major labels...I believe we would have a hit in an instant. For an example quik's album Trauma...imagine if he was on a major label...I have little doubts he would have blown up. I think people are underestimatin the importance of havin major labels behind us. We been improvin our sound, been havin new rappers come out wit lyrical skills...it's just the MAJOR LABELS.
I agree with you on the major labels statements, but that can't be all of it. If it was then how do you explain Mack 10's last album flopping?
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If I was a label exec I couldve got Quik a plaque for Trauma
its all in the labels hands...but that doesnt absolve the west coast rap industry
i think the biggest problem with the west that the west themselves can deal with is HUSTLE
motherfuckers still think its the 90s where South Central Cartel could go gold off one video
hustle hustle hustle
travel, tour, promote, collaborate, push ya product, etc etc
the systems against u. so work the system to your favour
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Fans -> Emcees/Producers
The emcee's and Producers aren't changing up cuz the fans aren't changing up. Look at Dubcc, the moment something G-Funk comes about, people go nuts. Anything different is described as "Wack," "East Coast," or get's no attention. The South isn't making Bass Music no more and you don't see fans hanging on to that. You don't see the East Coast making Boom Bap, nor do you see their fans hanging on it. The West Coast fans need to mature and realize that G-Funk died years ago. It's not coming back.
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I think Rick Rock is the best overall producer on the west as far as makin commercial and club type of shit.
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I've always said the problem with the West Coast is that too many producers have yet to change up their game - G-Funk has been the West Coast sound for almost 15 years now, and it's barely changed. What's ironic is that when Dre and Quik changed up their styles, a lotta cats I know were pissed at them. The West is still living in the past - muthafuckas need to deal with the fact that the G-Funk era is over and move on.
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If I was a label exec I couldve got Quik a plaque for Trauma
its all in the labels hands...but that doesnt absolve the west coast rap industry
i think the biggest problem with the west that the west themselves can deal with is HUSTLE
motherfuckers still think its the 90s where South Central Cartel could go gold off one video
hustle hustle hustle
travel, tour, promote, collaborate, push ya product, etc etc
the systems against u. so work the system to your favour
Exactly. On point. Cats think if they can just put out as many mixtapes/albums as they can people will notice. It dosen't work like that in the west.
"Where's your hustle nigga? Cause I don't respect rappers, I respect hustlers. Every nigga can rap, a lot of homies can rap homie a lot of niggaz got talent that can rap homie. It's your hutsle. Where your hustle at?"
-Glasses Malone
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Man, people still want the same ol bullshit! and as one of the few, (If only) indi westcoast rappers who has sold records & toured abroad,been in damn neaar every major publication in the states and abroad (Hip Hop Connection, Blues & soul, URB, The Source) that shit is not hittin no where else, and aint nobody checking for it! i get criticized for my sound because it's not "Gangsta enough" fuck that! Im really to the point where i dont even listen to muphucas opinion out here, because it doesnt matter really, because they have not accomplished anything outside of there neighborhood! ive done shows in Ireland, All over The Uk, and Im headed to france on the 23rd, (for the 2nd time) The point Im tryna make is THE BULLSHIT IS NOT A FACTOR OUTSIDE THE REGION!
I love the coast, but it's time for some new shit, and people gotta be willing to embrace change! and these Lazy muphucas need to get off they ass and go see the world, They whole perspective will change once they do that. and ur right anybody can rap, but who's willing to make they're own movement crack?
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Dayum...even though there have been several threads like this, it's always hard to come up with a consensus. I think we gotta agree that most of us will NEVER agree, and that there are definitely two sides to the argument that both hold a lotta substance, and I have caught myself arguin for both sides at different times.
I'll act as two opposing sides, using the views I always see, and some things I've noticed myself.
Side 1:
"The west is dead because our sound hasn't evolved at all, and because people aren't willing for it to change. The South, East, Midwest have all evolved a whole lot since the 90s, and that's why they are still big. West coast fans only seem to want one type of sound, and we gotta admit that it was great while it lasted but it's time to move on. We can't hate on cats for attemptin to bring a new sound."
Side 2:
"Just as most things in the business world, it's never about the quality or how good somethin actually is, but how it is promoted and marketed. Therefore, if the companies chose to promote the west coast sound, it would still be seen as hot. The sound of the west coast has definitely evolved from the 90s, and you can't diss the G-Funk sound because our sound should still have a similar vibe to it. Yeah the east has evolved since the 90s, but the same way they were heavily sample based then, they still are...they just use samples in a different way. The same way the south had energy in the 90s with Miami Bass sound, they still have energy, but it's morphed into the crunk sound. So it's not fair to knock the west coast for havin a funk influenced sound, because if our music that was hot the last few years was played on BET and all else, people around the nation would still love it and check for it. We shouldn't really try to change our sound, because that's not us, and it's not gonna appeal to people if we are just makin music that sounds like them. Whether it's because The West was blackballed because of Biggie, or because the east coast and south just have a larger market of consumers, our sound is only hated on because it's not heard enough. It's proof that our sound could still appeal, because Jay-Z has had songs like "Change the Game", Lil Jon had "Play no games", and TI had "My life" which were huge in the east and south, but definitely had a modernized west coast g-funk sound and vibe to it."
So with that.....I feel that both sides have strong points, and it's really a hard call to make. True, people around the country aren't checkin for our sound and feel it is washed up, but many of them are biased, and it's proven when they end up likin songs that are from their own artists but sound west coast, and when west coast songs actually do get pumped hard. I remember when "How we do" first came out on the net in September or October 05...I would take it to parties down here in Florida, and people would be like "what is this shit? This is west coast, turn it off"...but 3 months later, after it's #1 on 106 and Park, EVERYBODY down here was lovin the hell out of it!! People from the south were actin like it was their own song, and would drive around playin it loud as hell. So that there makes it seem as if marketing is the main reason that west coast music gets hated on.
As far as fans on the west, there are two different sides, at least speakin for black people in LA. To me, the 23 and under crowd seem to be much more influenced by the east and south, and the younger, the worst their influence is. People my age have much more west coast pride than younger cats, but even at that, it's only a select few of us who were usually raised by older cousins or people in the neighborhood who played west coast music. People who are younger tend to not like much of anything west coast that is new, and many of them don't really appreciate the older rap. I got 18 year old homeboys who don't think Kam is a legend, and say that they have NEVER heard any Kam songs, even though I am sure they would remember one or two if I played em. As far as 23+, it seems like the older the person is, the more they like older west coast music. Bad thing is, it's hard to find balance because the older cats are only checkin for west coast music that sounds old, and the younger cats are primarily checkin for whatever is hot on radio, which is usually south and east coast music. With that, the exact same thing happens for many producers and rappers in LA. Most younger cats ALL sound east coast as hell, and most older cats ALL sound 90s as hell and don't sound modern at all.
So if I could say anything...I would say it is a combination of what goes on on both sides. Personally, if I was DJ Quik, I woulda used my own money to help promote my album, because the return woulda been much better. Look at how Kanye paid a million to get that Jesus Walks video finished, and look at the effect that one video had for his career. For the Bay, it does seem like they are finally startin to make moves in the mainstream. But if I could advise anything, I would advise them to pump their shit and promote it in the south and east, and do what they can to get radio play and all else around there if it's attainable. Even though I am from LA, I have to admit The Bay deserves to have their sound pumped nationwide a lot more than LA does right now. The Bay sound is definitely radio ready, and all it needs is promotion. LA needs a few more years to find our own style...everybody wants to be NY right now.
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I think the main problem is the hustle and grind. We can sit here and blame the executives at the top labels all day but that doesnt accomplish anything. Look at the south, they are the poster boys for hustling, some have gone gold and plat on the indie hustle with no major backing or distribution. How can they do it but west coast artists cant?
Even when they get signed and backed by majors nothing seems to change...look at crooked, look at e-40, look at spider loc, nobody is dropping their records because they dont have that hustle to promote themselves
A mixtape every year wont do shit for you, untill you back yourself 100%....there is not a label that will take a gamble on your record like that
Too many artists on the west just sit back and try to live off the back of that 1 hit record they had 10 years ago instead of trying to build.
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agreed
Warren G is almost wack now
Dre hasn't fukked with the west in yearss (except Game)
Quik doesn't produce for any big rappers
Daz is trying to sound like a south producer and ends up comming out with wack shit
all the other west producers will never have a song that will appeal to people outside the west
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Of course its the labels
If the radio and TV push a song no matter how shit it sounds people will buy it
Look at Black Eyed Peas - My Humps
It's fuckin sad
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Dayum...even though there have been several threads like this, it's always hard to come up with a consensus. I think we gotta agree that most of us will NEVER agree, and that there are definitely two sides to the argument that both hold a lotta substance, and I have caught myself arguin for both sides at different times.
I'll act as two opposing sides, using the views I always see, and some things I've noticed myself.
Side 1:
"The west is dead because our sound hasn't evolved at all, and because people aren't willing for it to change. The South, East, Midwest have all evolved a whole lot since the 90s, and that's why they are still big. West coast fans only seem to want one type of sound, and we gotta admit that it was great while it lasted but it's time to move on. We can't hate on cats for attemptin to bring a new sound."
Side 2:
"Just as most things in the business world, it's never about the quality or how good somethin actually is, but how it is promoted and marketed. Therefore, if the companies chose to promote the west coast sound, it would still be seen as hot. The sound of the west coast has definitely evolved from the 90s, and you can't diss the G-Funk sound because our sound should still have a similar vibe to it. Yeah the east has evolved since the 90s, but the same way they were heavily sample based then, they still are...they just use samples in a different way. The same way the south had energy in the 90s with Miami Bass sound, they still have energy, but it's morphed into the crunk sound. So it's not fair to knock the west coast for havin a funk influenced sound, because if our music that was hot the last few years was played on BET and all else, people around the nation would still love it and check for it. We shouldn't really try to change our sound, because that's not us, and it's not gonna appeal to people if we are just makin music that sounds like them. Whether it's because The West was blackballed because of Biggie, or because the east coast and south just have a larger market of consumers, our sound is only hated on because it's not heard enough. It's proof that our sound could still appeal, because Jay-Z has had songs like "Change the Game", Lil Jon had "Play no games", and TI had "My life" which were huge in the east and south, but definitely had a modernized west coast g-funk sound and vibe to it."
So with that.....I feel that both sides have strong points, and it's really a hard call to make. True, people around the country aren't checkin for our sound and feel it is washed up, but many of them are biased, and it's proven when they end up likin songs that are from their own artists but sound west coast, and when west coast songs actually do get pumped hard. I remember when "How we do" first came out on the net in September or October 05...I would take it to parties down here in Florida, and people would be like "what is this shit? This is west coast, turn it off"...but 3 months later, after it's #1 on 106 and Park, EVERYBODY down here was lovin the hell out of it!! People from the south were actin like it was their own song, and would drive around playin it loud as hell. So that there makes it seem as if marketing is the main reason that west coast music gets hated on.
As far as fans on the west, there are two different sides, at least speakin for black people in LA. To me, the 23 and under crowd seem to be much more influenced by the east and south, and the younger, the worst their influence is. People my age have much more west coast pride than younger cats, but even at that, it's only a select few of us who were usually raised by older cousins or people in the neighborhood who played west coast music. People who are younger tend to not like much of anything west coast that is new, and many of them don't really appreciate the older rap. I got 18 year old homeboys who don't think Kam is a legend, and say that they have NEVER heard any Kam songs, even though I am sure they would remember one or two if I played em. As far as 23+, it seems like the older the person is, the more they like older west coast music. Bad thing is, it's hard to find balance because the older cats are only checkin for west coast music that sounds old, and the younger cats are primarily checkin for whatever is hot on radio, which is usually south and east coast music. With that, the exact same thing happens for many producers and rappers in LA. Most younger cats ALL sound east coast as hell, and most older cats ALL sound 90s as hell and don't sound modern at all.
So if I could say anything...I would say it is a combination of what goes on on both sides. Personally, if I was DJ Quik, I woulda used my own money to help promote my album, because the return woulda been much better. Look at how Kanye paid a million to get that Jesus Walks video finished, and look at the effect that one video had for his career. For the Bay, it does seem like they are finally startin to make moves in the mainstream. But if I could advise anything, I would advise them to pump their shit and promote it in the south and east, and do what they can to get radio play and all else around there if it's attainable. Even though I am from LA, I have to admit The Bay deserves to have their sound pumped nationwide a lot more than LA does right now. The Bay sound is definitely radio ready, and all it needs is promotion. LA needs a few more years to find our own style...everybody wants to be NY right now.
good shit my equal i'm in total agreement yell
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i didnt read your post but... i completely disagree...
you got quik, dre, battlecat from the west... then you got big saccs, j steez, ant banks and warren g... it's the played out raps thats letting shit down.
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R-TIS MADE VALID POINTS,BUT IT'S ALSO THE FANS MUTHAFUCCAS NEED TO LOOK FOR something else then just the same ol same ol,like cats shit on my humps by bep all day,yet thats THE ORIGINAL CALI SOUND, do yo history,and first funk came from blacc f olk on the east yell