West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: K A I N on March 26, 2006, 07:44:18 AM
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:catfight:
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damn..i voted false, i didn't understand the question...no because all relligions are correct, so there doesn't exist ONE better than the others
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They all have the evil pasts, secrets, and they've are all used in a way top control people. I'm speaking about the organizations of things.
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i voted false but i believe judiasm, christianity and islam all tie together. the reason i voted false was becaus i believe islam is the perfected and final word of god.
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you know my attitude
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Christianity is the only true religion....
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thats true... but christianity is the closest thing to it.
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No religion is correct.
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No religion is correct.
except islam :P
(and dont try to misquote me fuckers :nawty:)
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No religion is correct.
except islam :P
(and dont try to misquote me fuckers :nawty:)
yup, do ur research, islam has been found to be the most truest religion in all senses of the word...
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No religion is correct.
except islam :P
(and dont try to misquote me fuckers :nawty:)
yup, do ur research, islam has been found to be the most truest religion in all senses of the word...
haha, what the fuck is that supposed to mean?
I voted true, i feel feel that all organized religions are detrimental to us
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idk why islam gets such a bad wrap, prob becaus of the terrorists that say they are carrying out god's message, but any reasonable person would know these guys are bullshit.
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People who voted false are just brainwashed. Whether you are Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Scientologist, etc. etc. etc., religion has done alot of bad things to humanity. Killing in the name of their religions, the organizations using people's faith for monetary gain, hatred towards groups (i.e. homosexuals)......the list goes on.
Now, I'm not saying the doctrine and the philosophy of the religions are bad. They're all great and uplifting to people, depending on the context at which people take it they can be really great. It's just when people get together in organizations, bad things happen. What do all organizations do? generate money. Some to line their own pockets and some to help out others......that's where things get tricky. Since the hearts of men is corrupt, they take advantage of the religion & doctrines and make them say what they want it to say.
Just look throughout history, all religions are incorrect. This is coming from a dude that's grown up in a Christian houehold all his life, but I can't deny the evils of Christianity's past.
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People who voted false are just brainwashed. Whether you are Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Scientologist, etc. etc. etc., religion has done alot of bad things to humanity. Killing in the name of their religions, the organizations using people's faith for monetary gain, hatred towards groups (i.e. homosexuals)......the list goes on.
Now, I'm not saying the doctrine and the philosophy of the religions are bad. They're all great and uplifting to people, depending on the context at which people take it they can be really great.
is it that you have a problem with the organizations and not the religions?
you can take a beautiful woman or an innocent young girl and turn her into a hooker. you could fill a birthday balloon with poison gas. anything can be corrupted.
the fact that religions have been corrupted is not a problem with religion, but with man. this isn't a question of what religion has been corrupted and abused the least. this is a question of what are these religions about? what answers and solutions do they provide? how accurate are they?
if you study the teachings of christ; if you study the quran; if you study buddhist philosophy or hindu philosophy/religion...you have not studied anything evil.
have you ever seen the movie "american pie"?? look what they did to the pie! man has corrupted apple pie! ofcourse man will corrupt religion, if he has corrupted pie.
the problem is not with religion, but with man.
i was very skeptical of religion because it is continually used as a tool to oppress and exploit man and people across the world. but if you can separate the evil that man does from the religions themselves, then you can evaluate the religions on their merit; and not on the deeds of their followers.
explain to me the nature of man, the nature of existence, the purpose of life. i'd like to hear your positions on those issues. these are problems that science cannot solve, questions that cannot be answered without religion; without something to fill in the gaps. some people don't care to fill in the gaps, and that's fine. others like to have questions answered. some religions/philosophies provide pretty good answers, imho.
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have you ever seen the movie "american pie"?? look what they did to the pie! man has corrupted apple pie! ofcourse man will corrupt religion, if he has corrupted pie.
LOL
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religion is the reason why we are at war
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is it that you have a problem with the organizations and not the religions?
you can take a beautiful woman or an innocent young girl and turn her into a hooker. you could fill a birthday balloon with poison gas. anything can be corrupted.
the fact that religions have been corrupted is not a problem with religion, but with man. this isn't a question of what religion has been corrupted and abused the least. this is a question of what are these religions about? what answers and solutions do they provide? how accurate are they?
if you study the teachings of christ; if you study the quran; if you study buddhist philosophy or hindu philosophy/religion...you have not studied anything evil.
have you ever seen the movie "american pie"?? look what they did to the pie! man has corrupted apple pie! ofcourse man will corrupt religion, if he has corrupted pie.
the problem is not with religion, but with man.
i was very skeptical of religion because it is continually used as a tool to oppress and exploit man and people across the world. but if you can separate the evil that man does from the religions themselves, then you can evaluate the religions on their merit; and not on the deeds of their followers.
Hey you're basically expanding on what I was trying to say. The purpose of all religions is to be a guideline in people's lives. I got no problem with religious text with the exception of a few things. I've studied pretty much all of the major religions -- Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Judaism -- and they are all inspirational pieces of literature whether you look at them from a religious standpoint or philosophically.
As far as man being the problem and not religion...well, religion has been recorded by man leaving the opportunity for them to corrupt or change the religious ideals in order to benefit their church or organizaton. This is why I say no religion can possibly be 100% correct because of man's involvement. The fact that religions don't teach tolerance towards other people's beliefs is another problem I have with most religions. If religions taught that then the conflicts in the Middle East, Ireland, and other religious conflicts probably wouldn't even be problems today.
explain to me the nature of man, the nature of existence, the purpose of life. i'd like to hear your positions on those issues. these are problems that science cannot solve, questions that cannot be answered without religion; without something to fill in the gaps. some people don't care to fill in the gaps, and that's fine. others like to have questions answered. some religions/philosophies provide pretty good answers, imho.
What do I think the nature of man is? The response I learned from church is that we're all sinners and we need Christ as our Savior. My opinion is a little more complex than that. We all have qualities that are seen as bad to the majority of people, greed, lust, pride, and so on. Since I go by the belief that ANYTHING done in excess is bad for you, then anyone who is too greedy, lustful, prideful is doing a disservice to themself. Without these qualities, however, we would probably lack the drive to do anything productive in life and society. So my answer....both. We all have the urge to do good, but we all have the ability to screw up and sin. I don't think you can be either one entirely.
The purpose of life according to the doctrine I grew up with was that we were suppose to witness and minister to as many people as possible. I could go with the scientific explanation and say our purpose is to reproduce, but I don't feel that's all we're here for either. This question kind of stumped me. To be honest, I don't know yet. I'm still young, I'm trying to figure it out myself.
If you haven't noticed, I've become very skeptical towards religion in general. I was one of those die hard dudes that walked the walk and talked the talk until I stopped being a follower and decided to search for some answers without being bias. Now I really don't know what to think, I'm still trying to figure some things out. I believe there's a supreme being, I'm trying to figure out if God really has the attributes of the Christian God I've followed my entire life. As far as philosophy & doctrine are concerned, alot of the things I got outta Christianity I still use because they make alot of sense to me and I feel they work best for me. I find that a little harder to do with other aspects.
I know alot fo what I'm saying may or may not make sense, that's because I'm still trying to figure it all out lol. When I've discussed this to people in person, they all tell me I'm lost and that I need to follow (fill in the religion) because that's the one true way. Now, I just find it hard to believe that this pre-packaged belief is completely correct or right for me personally, no matter which of the major religions that may be.
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As far as philosophy & doctrine are concerned, alot of the things I got outta Christianity I still use because they make alot of sense to me and I feel they work best for me. I find that a little harder to do with other aspects.
What other apsects? Just wondering.
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There is no correct religion. All religions are different paths to God.
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religion is the reason why we are at war
no, finances are
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Talking about religion is just a huge waste of time. We can spend all day comparing Fairytale 1 and Fairytale 2, but why would we bother? There are WAY more important matters to discuss.
But you really wanna hear what I think? I doubt it, but Imma give it to ya anyway:
TRUTH: I exist.
OBSERVATIONS: Existence is concrete. Human consciousness is the result of chemical and electrical activities in the brain. Abnormal things are reported, but are to be taken with a grain of salt as most people are just plain stupid. Laws and morality were created by man and should be celebrated as a human achievement. A deity (as far as been shown) had nothing to do with it. A deity probably doesn't exist. If it does, it is probably unconscious OR it is a "universal consciousness" type of deal. Laws are relative, but should be treated as concrete. Chaos is the death of humanity.
CONCLUSION: Humans are responsible only to themselves, to others, and the world in which we live in. The God theory is outdated and largely irrelevant. Man is a product of evolution.
And that's all she wrote.
Now its time to disagree and start quoting verses out of the Bible or Quran. Know what I'm going to hear? BLA BLA BLA BLA.
LETS GET IT ON!!!
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Talking about religion is just a huge waste of time. We can spend all day comparing Fairytale 1 and Fairytale 2, but why would we bother? There are WAY more important matters to discuss.
But you really wanna hear what I think? I doubt it, but Imma give it to ya anyway:
TRUTH: I exist.
OBSERVATIONS: Existence is concrete. Human consciousness is the result of chemical and electrical activities in the brain. Abnormal things are reported, but are to be taken with a grain of salt as most people are just plain stupid. Laws and morality were created by man and should be celebrated as a human achievement. A deity (as far as been shown) had nothing to do with it. A deity probably doesn't exist. If it does, it is probably unconscious OR it is a "universal consciousness" type of deal. Laws are relative, but should be treated as concrete. Chaos is the death of humanity.
CONCLUSION: Humans are responsible only to themselves, to others, and the world in which we live in. The God theory is outdated and largely irrelevant. Man is a product of evolution.
And that's all she wrote.
Now its time to disagree and start quoting verses out of the Bible or Quran. Know what I'm going to hear? BLA BLA BLA BLA.
LETS GET IT ON!!!
Morality most likely came into existence through feeelings and emotions and who or what created emotions or feelings can't be answered for certain.
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we'll find out when we die....or we wont find out at all, anything else is just speculation and hope
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Talking about religion is just a huge waste of time. We can spend all day comparing Fairytale 1 and Fairytale 2, but why would we bother? There are WAY more important matters to discuss.
There is no fairytale in worshipping the Creator of the universe. The only fairytale is when you get involved in supernatural events and worshipping human beings, idols, and other created things. Islam at it's core is a practical religion, and the Qu'ran is a practical book.
But you really wanna hear what I think? I doubt it, but Imma give it to ya anyway:
I'm interested in hearing what you think. You expressed yourself politely, and you explained how you feel; it can be a healthy discussion.
TRUTH: I exist.
Yes, you exist, so why not worship the one that created you? So then you may say "so I should worship my mom?" No, I'm talking about before your mom, and then before that, go all the way back until you can't go back any further, and worship that. That is who Allah is. Allah is the first, the last, the eternal absolute.
OBSERVATIONS: Existence is concrete. Human consciousness is the result of chemical and electrical activities in the brain. Abnormal things are reported, but are to be taken with a grain of salt as most people are just plain stupid. Laws and morality were created by man and should be celebrated as a human achievement. A deity (as far as been shown) had nothing to do with it. A deity probably doesn't exist. If it does, it is probably unconscious OR it is a "universal consciousness" type of deal. Laws are relative, but should be treated as concrete. Chaos is the death of humanity.
But who is it that keeps the chemical and electical activity in our brain going? And who is it that keeps our hearts beating without us even thinking about it? Ask yourself who is sustaining you? Because the power that is sustaining us is the only power truly worthy of worship. The Arabic word for this is Allah, but in English they say God.
CONCLUSION: Humans are responsible only to themselves, to others, and the world in which we live in. The God theory is outdated and largely irrelevant. Man is a product of evolution.
You have a responsability to the one that created you. Who would be more worthy of our devotion than the Creator of the universe?
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^^^ the one that that always had my mind puzzled about islam was the view of evolution. there is an abundance of evidence stating evolution existed. personally i don't believe it because of my faith, but it does make an interesting argument.
Your thoughts?
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^^^ the one that that always had my mind puzzled about islam was the view of evolution. there is an abundance of evidence stating evolution existed. personally i don't believe it because of my faith, but it does make an interesting argument.
Your thoughts?
I guess it would depend on how you define evolution. The Qu'ran details a devinely controlled evolution.
The Qu'ran is a logical and practical book. It is compatible with science, check these verses from Qu'ran, keeping in mind this book was revealed to man 1400 years ago.
Earth is egg shaped (10:24, 39:5, 79:30), earth is not standing still; it moves constantly (27:88), sun is source of light while moon reflects it (10:5, 25:61, 71:16), proportion of oxygen diminishes as we climb towards the sky (6:125), Even the Big-Bang Theory is confirmed in Qu'ran (21:30) The Expansion of the Universe is confirmed (51:47) The universe started out as a gaseous mass (41:11) Evolution is a devinely giuded process (21:30, 24:45, 32:7-9, 18:37, 15:28-29, 7:11, 71:13-14. The man's seminal fluid decides the baby's gender (53:45-46). Life began in water: "From water we initiated all living things." (21:30, 24:45)
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^^^ the one that that always had my mind puzzled about islam was the view of evolution. there is an abundance of evidence stating evolution existed. personally i don't believe it because of my faith, but it does make an interesting argument.
Your thoughts?
I guess it would depend on how you define evolution. The Qu'ran details a devinely controlled evolution.
The Qu'ran is a logical and practical book. It is compatible with science, check these verses from Qu'ran, keeping in mind this book was revealed to man 1400 years ago.
Earth is egg shaped (10:24, 39:5, 79:30), earth is not standing still; it moves constantly (27:88), sun is source of light while moon reflects it (10:5, 25:61, 71:16), proportion of oxygen diminishes as we climb towards the sky (6:125), Even the Big-Bang Theory is confirmed in Qu'ran (21:30) The Expansion of the Universe is confirmed (51:47) The universe started out as a gaseous mass (41:11) Evolution is a devinely giuded process (21:30, 24:45, 32:7-9, 18:37, 15:28-29, 7:11, 71:13-14. The man's seminal fluid decides the baby's gender (53:45-46). Life began in water: "From water we initiated all living things." (21:30, 24:45)
i actually learned most of those statements made in the qu'ran not too long ago. the one about evolution tho said somethin about being 3 or so different stages in the process of creating man.
"And [mention] when your Lord said to the angels, 'Truly, I will create a man from clay. So when I have completed him, and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down prostrate to him.' And the angels prostrated, one and all. Save for Satan, who was too proud to, and disbelieved. He said to him, 'O Satan, what prevented you from prostrating to what I have created with My two hands? Are you arrogant, or too exalted?' He said,'I am better than he; You created me from fire and created him from clay'" (Qur'an 38:71-76).
but my question was really (sorry to not specify) the evolution of man from ape. is there something that pertains to that? becaus i was unsuccessful in my research
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but my question was really (sorry to not specify) the evolution of man from ape. is there something that pertains to that? becaus i was unsuccessful in my research
There's a few things that might pertain to that, but I actually have to do more research on it myself before I start just posting anything.
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we definitely evolved out of apes. the DNA is nearly the same, and some apes are smart as fuck. it's actually almost terrifying. they even recognize themselves in the mirror and put stickers off their body they happen to see there and shit. they can even construct things to reach bananas and shit. nuts.
(http://www.primates.com/orangutans/orangutantree.jpg)
(http://www.primates.com/orangutans/orangutanteeth.jpg)
(http://www.primates.com/orangutans/orangutansfaces.jpg)
just look that little fella in the eyes and you know he knows what's up. they can't talk because of the way their head is shaped and constructed, not because they are too dumb. they could def learn how to talk if they were able to physically.
truly amazing
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Hey you're basically expanding on what I was trying to say. The purpose of all religions is to be a guideline in people's lives. I got no problem with religious text with the exception of a few things. I've studied pretty much all of the major religions -- Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Judaism -- and they are all inspirational pieces of literature whether you look at them from a religious standpoint or philosophically.
i think the logical follow-up question is: do you think that religion is merely the creation of man; or that there is an underlying truth there? without question these religions all provide inspirational and practical wisdom, but do you believe that there is some level of truth to them; or that it is no more than sage advice?
What do I think the nature of man is? The response I learned from church is that we're all sinners and we need Christ as our Savior. My opinion is a little more complex than that. We all have qualities that are seen as bad to the majority of people, greed, lust, pride, and so on. Since I go by the belief that ANYTHING done in excess is bad for you, then anyone who is too greedy, lustful, prideful is doing a disservice to themself. Without these qualities, however, we would probably lack the drive to do anything productive in life and society. So my answer....both. We all have the urge to do good, but we all have the ability to screw up and sin. I don't think you can be either one entirely.
i mostly agree with your ideas here. humans inherently has a sense of community and kinship with their fellow people. while the temptation towards selfish behavior is always present, this sense of community is always there to counter it to some extent; and ultimately this represents the basic struggle of man.
one issue is how and where man defines and identifies with his fellow people. people tend to have this notion of family -> community -> race/religion -> nation -> etc; and that sense of community tends to diminish outwards; depending on the individual. that's why you have people that don't care about war and collateral damage in some foreign country as long as their country remains #1.
but to get back to religion:
The purpose of life according to the doctrine I grew up with was that we were suppose to witness and minister to as many people as possible. I could go with the scientific explanation and say our purpose is to reproduce, but I don't feel that's all we're here for either. This question kind of stumped me. To be honest, I don't know yet. I'm still young, I'm trying to figure it out myself.
well, it is a question that most people are either trying to solve, or have given up on. this is why i asked if you beleive religions are based around truth, or if it was practical conjecture.
most religions paint the basic idea that for whatever reason man is now apart from god. in addition the human form is a false identity that man has assumed. in the qu'ran & the bible, man was decieved by satan, and angels rebelled against god. in hinduism, the soul (which is divine) is capable of recognizing it's true spiritual nature, or associating itself with the material world and assuming a false identity, the material body; and thus apart from god.
the bottom line is that all religions try to represent the path back to enlightenment, recognizing the true spiritual nature of man, and escaping the physical world for good.
i think the most interesting aspect of the purpose of life is ultimately the notion that escaping the physical world and returning to god & the spiritual identity is literally a choice. completely optional. with the sole caveat that the physical world is one suffering and subjigation to karma. some religions have adopted a position of denying this choice (eternal hell), and others embrace the notion of choice (reincarnation); but the bottom line is that religions represent a way out. this also suggests that people that don't want a way out, and are happy with their current state of existence are in many ways free to continue to do so (although most religions provide incentives to not do so); ultimately the fate of an individual is determinied by their actions.
these fundamental ideas of religion are in many ways beyond the corruptions of man. this is why i have to disagree about the notion that there is no correct religion, religion in many ways is what you make of it.
If you haven't noticed, I've become very skeptical towards religion in general. I was one of those die hard dudes that walked the walk and talked the talk until I stopped being a follower and decided to search for some answers without being bias. Now I really don't know what to think, I'm still trying to figure some things out. I believe there's a supreme being, I'm trying to figure out if God really has the attributes of the Christian God I've followed my entire life. As far as philosophy & doctrine are concerned, alot of the things I got outta Christianity I still use because they make alot of sense to me and I feel they work best for me. I find that a little harder to do with other aspects.
i agree with you 100%, and i also question the constant portrayal of a god with human characteristics and temperment. however in a metaphorical sense those ideas make more sense.
I know alot fo what I'm saying may or may not make sense, that's because I'm still trying to figure it all out lol. When I've discussed this to people in person, they all tell me I'm lost and that I need to follow (fill in the religion) because that's the one true way. Now, I just find it hard to believe that this pre-packaged belief is completely correct or right for me personally, no matter which of the major religions that may be.
i again agree with you that the notion of a pre-packaged religion is wrong. religion, both the philosophy and rituals are supposed to provide a foundation of insight and enlightenment for a person, and not just commands on what to do. i also don't think that religions are mutually exclusive. alot of the ideas work together very well, and trying to resolve contradictions for me provides a mechanism for better understanding.
personally, i like the quran and islam because it strongly emphasizes worship of the creator, prayer, charity...and i think these are fundamentally important questions. the quran doesn't try to answer everything, it focuses on what is important. someone once told me there were seven layers of understanding the quran, so i try to understand and interpret it's message in different ways.
i also like hinduism, (the upanishads in particular), because they provide insight into both understanding the nature of existence and also insight into how to look at and appreciate things.
we agree on alot of these points, we only disagree on whether the harm that organized religions and pre-packaged rituals and ideas have done qualify as a conmdemnation of "religion" as a concept.
specifically, your interpretation of the bible is in many ways just as valid as any organizations. after-all it was written by neither of you, and unless the authors step forward...it's open for informed debate. organizations have somehow stolen religion from the people; but religion isn't about an organization; it's about people and their nature.
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Talking about religion is just a huge waste of time. We can spend all day comparing Fairytale 1 and Fairytale 2, but why would we bother? There are WAY more important matters to discuss.
i think it's easy to argue that there is nothing more important.
But you really wanna hear what I think? I doubt it, but Imma give it to ya anyway:
TRUTH: I exist.
you do exist, but what is the nature of your existence? are you nothing more than your physical body? do you have an eternal soul or are you a soulless being?
OBSERVATIONS: Existence is concrete. Human consciousness is the result of chemical and electrical activities in the brain.
concrete is fabricated from elements; sand, water...breaks down and is destroyed; some of those elements are reused, others discarded/lost. in many ways concrete is similar to human existence in a religious/spiritual context. concrete is not permanent.
i'm not debating the electro-chemical nature of the human body. that is how the physical form works. what i'm asking is: is that all that is there?
Laws and morality were created by man and should be celebrated as a human achievement.
many laws should be dismissed as human failure, the product of hubris. a trait humankind is not unfamiliar with.
A deity (as far as been shown) had nothing to do with it. A deity probably doesn't exist. If it does, it is probably unconscious OR it is a "universal consciousness" type of deal.
i am also skeptical of the human-like notion of a deity. not that powerful, divine, human-like creatures don't exist; whether or not they do that is most likely not the nature of god.
at the same time, there are religions and systems of belief that directly support your broader more abstract notion of "a universal consciousness". the idea that the true form of god is both unpresentable and incomprehensible to moses is present. your idea is not far-fetched within the context of religion. so why condemn them all if not all disagree with your position.
CONCLUSION: Humans are responsible only to themselves, to others, and the world in which we live in. The God theory is outdated and largely irrelevant. Man is a product of evolution.
i would suggest that without god (a higher power) there is little basis for the notion of responsibility to others. what is the benefit of order, peace and harmony if in the end nothing matters? you basically acknowledge that there is a higher power; you simply deny the nature of that higher power as has been presented to you. if it's possible that a higher power exists and life has a more specific purpose; then it's possible that someone somehow became enlightened about that notion down, and that it is recorded somewhere is some religion.
if such a truth does exist, are you looking for it? and if not, why not?
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If there was a higher power, no way in hell would it centre around humans. Humans aint shit.
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If there was a higher power, no way in hell would it centre around humans. Humans aint shit.
i believe there is a higher power, and i agree with you that in no way does that higher power center around humans. god does not worship man.
if humans realized their true nature they would center their existence around the higher power through worship; realize their true nature; and possibly attain higher and more significant forms of existence.
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We're an alien ant farm.
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RELIGION :monkey_piss:
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aw well all i know is that i believe in a higher power but i´m not religious at all(now some people say it don´t make sense but whatever). i don´t live my life after any rules other then what i personally think is right and wrong. i´ve taken some time out to think over some things that all religions has deemed as bein "wrong" but some of those things are "right" IMO and that´s why i don´t believe in any religion but i believe in God. i wouldn´t even bother to argue about this with anyone coz my beliefs aren´t gonna change coz of that and i wouldn´t be able to change anyone´s beliefs neither(not that i would want to in the first place). and who am i to say what´s good and what´s evil or what´s right or wrong? and i was raised as a catholic and lets just say that most of my family aren´t too happy about my views on God and religion and my grandma actually prays that i won´t go to hell because i´m not a catholic lol. and my family is part of the reason why i looked at religion as something crooked for a long time, my family other then my mom+my brothers are the biggest hypocrits in the world.
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^^^ same shit with me man... exactly, couldnt have said it better (except for the family part)
you get props