West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: coola on March 30, 2006, 01:53:43 AM
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i always just thought of them as amish... never actually knew what they do, or who they are ? i've seen orgasmo, thats as far as my understanding goes... i call a dude at work a mormon all the time, and i dont even know what it is..
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i always just thought of them as amish... never actually knew what they do, or who they are ? i've seen orgasmo, thats as far as my understanding goes... i call a dude at work a mormon all the time, and i dont even know what it is..
The Mormon religion is like a part of the Christian religion, sort of like the Protestants. The 'chosen' leaders are 12 men with with suits on.
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ask trauma
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TO FUCK HELLA WOMEN (WORMEN)
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They believe that a man named Joseph Smith in America talked with God and Jesus, and wrote a new book of the Bible.
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^ really ?
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^ really ?
Yes.
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what does their new bible teach ?
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what does their new bible teach ?
I'm not too familiar with it but it says that the first man and woman were in America, and that Jesus visited the US. I'm not an expert though.
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I'm gonna stoop down to the level of the retarded Polacks (Chief, RealGayPolack) on this one...
More than 40% of child sex abusers have family ties with their victims By Elizabeth Neff and Stephen Hunt
The Salt Lake Tribune http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Jun/06132004/utah/175002.asp
(Only 3% of the sexual crimes ever make it to court, mostly incest 43% of the time, 34% of the prison population are sexual perpetrators, the problem in Utah is extensive and epidemic.)
Where do Utah's child molesters lurk?
They can be found in homes up and down streets across the state. They are fathers, brothers, uncles and grandfathers.
While "stranger danger" cases make headlines, children are most often sexually abused by those they know and trust.
To the trauma of being molested, add betrayal by a loved one and the deep cultural and religious taboos surrounding incestuous sex, leading many families to try to cover up the abuse or handle it on their own.
Prosecutors, judges and defense attorneys say sex crimes involving family members are among the most difficult for the justice system.
A Salt Lake Tribune analysis of figures provided by the Department of Children and Family Services for the past five years shows perpetrators were classified as blood relatives, adoptive parents or stepparents 43 percent of the time. In an equal number of cases, the perpetrator, though unrelated, was known to the victim.
In contrast, police reports indicate strangers were perpetrators only 6.5 percent of the time, according to a Tribune analysis of state Bureau of Criminal Identification records from 2002.
If the crime is reported to police -- and many abuses are not -- the child's revelations may send the breadwinner to jail and an already fractured family can face economic instability.
"What's nasty about family sex abuse cases is the whole family is the victim," said Paul Parker, leader of the Salt Lake District Attorney's Office special victims unit.
Once the case lands in court, a victim's allegiance and resolve are put to the ultimate test.
Last September, a 13-year-old girl whose father had repeatedly fondled her was the one pleading his case. She told a 3rd District Court judge at his sentencing, "I just want to say that I love Jim very much, and I don't want him to go to prison."
Her mother called the defendant "a good man" and "a very, very important part of our family."
The judge -- noting the defendant was a repeat offender who had molested three other daughters two decades earlier -- sent him to prison for a term of three years to life.
A different judge at the 2002 sentencing of another father, ordered probation, treatment and a year in jail, even though he confessed performing sex acts on his daughter 265 times -- from the time she was 8 years old until she was 16.
Based on a psychological report that the man was amenable to treatment, the judge suspended potential five years to life prison terms.
The daughter, then 17, had written the judge characterizing her father as "a good guy with a very bad habit. I feel like this is an addiction or a mental illness that he was unable to control, but with the help from a lot of therapy he would be able to control it."
Tough to prosecute: More child sex-abuse cases end up being dismissed or end in plea bargains than other crimes, prosecutors say.
Committed in secret, there may be little evidence to corroborate a victim's story, said Assistant Salt Lake District Attorney Michael Postma.
Also, the very process intended to stop the abuse and punish the perpetrator can overwhelm young victims.
Child victims face an onslaught of strange and frightening experiences, from police interviews to medical examinations to confronting their abuser in court.
Their homes, meanwhile, may become pressure cookers of misplaced blame.
"Things are in turmoil. Things fall apart," Postma said.
Court orders almost always forbid contact with the victim, which forces the accused out of the home.
Paying double rent stresses an already anxious household. Brothers, sisters -- even mothers -- may take sides and point fingers. Guilt-ridden and confused, the child's resolve may falter.
"Worst-case scenario," Postma said, "the victim recants or starts giving inconsistent statements."
As for the small number of cases that go to trial -- 3 percent last year -- prosecutors say the challenge becomes getting the child to communicate meaningfully to a jury.
"You have a young witness talking about adult behavior in a completely artificial environment," Postma said.
Helping children through the process: Child sex-abuse prosecutors say they could not function without in-house counselors, who establish trust with child victims, go to court with them and sometimes sit with them on the witness stand.
Said JoAnn Zaharias, program director for the DA's counseling unit: "We try to be nonjudgmental; we validate their feelings."
Meanwhile, those who interview victims of child sex crimes are using new techniques, resulting in stronger cases for prosecutors.
First, the child is put at ease by asking them to describe something they are excited about, like a birthday, said Children's Justice Center program manager Susanne Mitchell. "You have to get them to trust you and to talk about something that they want to forget."
Interviewers stick to open-ended questions -- anatomical dolls are no longer used -- and the child is allowed to ask questions and take breaks.
"I think it has kind of resolved that myth that children are not reliable witnesses; they are," she said, adding: "We had to guide investigators in how to have a child tell their story, without messing it up."
Plea deals: Viewed with disdain by some for putting offenders back on the streets faster, plea deals spare child victims the trauma of a trial, ensure a conviction and force defendants to make admissions and obtain treatment.
A Tribune review found that last year, 78 percent of adult defendants charged in Utah with child sex crimes pleaded guilty in exchange for charge reductions, dismissal of some charges or sentencing recommendations.
Going to trial allows some children an opportunity to regain the control taken from them by a perpetrator, Zaharias said.
But hearing a defendant enter guilty pleas can also be empowering. "That plea lets [victims] know they were right and that what was happening was wrong," Postma said.
Defense attorney G. Fred Metos said many resolutions are driven by defendants who do not want to put their children "through the wringer" of a trial.
Metos added that child sex cases can be difficult to defend because children are such sympathetic figures in the eyes of jurors.
"If the claim is that the child fabricated the story, you've got to be careful about accusing the child," he said. "Trying to rip them apart [during cross-examination] is sometimes counterproductive."
Prosecutor Parker said he bargains for "as much consequences as possible." After that, it is up to a judge.
Judges weigh many factors: Sentencing judges are required by law to consider a list of factors, among them the defendant's acceptance of responsibility, sexual evaluations, prior criminal record and the egregiousness of the crime.
Before she was appointed to the bench in 1997, 3rd District Judge Ann Boyden prosecuted child sex crimes. Now she presides over several such cases each week.
Her first concern in sentencing, she explains, is protecting other children from being abused. That may or may not mean prison time.
"Some sort of plea answers a lot of things for the family and the perpetrators," she said. "As a judge, I encourage that to the extent it promotes the interest of justice."
Nevertheless, 34 percent of Utah prison inmates now serving time for first-degree felonies are child sex abusers, according to figures released this month.
Boyden said she relies heavily on evaluations of an abuser's potential for treatment and rehabilitation. She also listens to victims.
"I do not ever ignore input from a family member, particularly a victim, because if nothing else, I need to reassure them that they are not the reason [the defendants] are going to prison," she said.
Third District Judge Dennis Fuchs, who once dealt with convicted sex offenders as a member of the Board of Pardons, said being on the bench is the easier job.
He said judges are limited by sentencing guidelines. "On the [parole] board you had to deal with how much punishment is appropriate and whether they are rehabilitated."
Treatment, which usually begins with intensive group and individual therapy lasting 12 to 18 months, focuses on developing empathy for the victim and changing the thoughts and feelings behind a perpetrator's behavior.
Kathy Ockey, director of a sex-offender halfway house, said it is impossible to "cure" a child sex offender. But those who complete treatment can learn self-control, much as alcoholics do.
"All of us control our sexual urges every day, so we are not asking sex offenders to do anything different than anyone does every day," Ockey said. Online resources * The following Web sites offer more information on child sex abuse:
* Darkness to Light -- http://www.darkness2light.org
* Children's Justice Center -- http://www.cjcslc.org/index.html
* Stop It Now! -- http://www.stopitnow.com
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Mother decries sex abuse by son By Elizabeth Neff
The Salt Lake Tribune http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Jun/06132004/utah/175004.asp
What parent would want to consider the possibility that one of her own children might be a child sexual abuser?
Lillian Miller, 36, of South Weber, certainly didn't.
But she knows from two perspectives the heartbreak of child sexual abuse within a family: her teenage son sexually abused his sister and other relatives. Now Miller speaks out so other parents heed the warning signs she overlooked.
Miller says her son, David, was abused as a child while in day care before he himself became an abuser. When he was 15, he was caught abusing a stepsister. Miller's response was one of denial and anger.
"I thought it would never happen, there is no way," she said. "I am LDS. I grew up in a religious community and taught my kids right from wrong and thought I did everything I was supposed to do."
Her son went into a residential treatment program, where his abuse of his younger biological sister and cousins eventually came to light.
David, who recently turned 18 and is still in residential treatment, used Pokémon cards as a way to manipulate his victims. He said he chose family members because "they would always be available when I wanted to be sexual to them."
He tried to conceal the abuse by acting like he was watching TV or playing a game, and says he told his victims to "act like nothing happened."
"I portrayed myself to be this nice church boy that would never do anything like that," he said.
Looking back, Miller says the signs were there: Her daughter had chronic urinary tract infections, would sometimes sleep with her clothes on, and grew moody and unconcerned with her appearance.
She urges other parents to take precautions like not letting children play behind closed doors, being aware of their behavior and talking with them about abuse.
The potential for a juvenile to be a child sex offender is growing. The Children's Justice Center says 46 percent of their cases involve juvenile offenders, and 40 percent of those now involve perpetrators age 10 and younger. And while the numbers of prosecutions of juveniles for sex crimes are going up, the center says, the age of child perpetrators is going down.
Juvenile abusers within families pose a problem of where to place them during recovery, and if, when and how to integrate them back into families.
Cliff Mattson runs the treatment center where David lives. The youngest offenders come there at age 12 and may be there beyond their 18th birthdays.
The kids go to school on-site, beginning their day with a group therapy session, with more sessions during the week in the afternoons. They also are taught coping and anger management skills.
David says the hardest part about treatment is facing the people he has hurt.
"I feel that I can have close relationships with my family again, but it is also a matter [of] if my family wants to have a close relationship."
He worries about what might happen when he is older.
"It will always be a struggle throughout my life, but as long as I use all of the things I have learned in treatment, I will be able to do well," he says.
Mattson, 37, began working with child sex offenders in 1993. He says most of the children he sees have been abused in one way or another. In many cases they have been introduced to sexual behaviors or materials that were not appropriate for their age, something that can throw their development off track, he said.
"When I talk to groups, whether it be church or otherwise, there really is a lack of awareness of how much this is going on," he said. "This is more of an issue than people are aware of."
Mattson encourages parents not to make sex an off-limits topic in their home.
"One of the things that is very common when I talk to the kids about what the environment was at home around sexual issues, is that the climate was not conducive to being talked about, being asked about," he said. "You really have to work double time, overtime to create a climate in a home setting where those things can be talked about."
Miller says she wishes she had been more open about speaking with her son when the incident with his stepsister occurred.
"I reacted as a parent out of fear," she said. "That just shuts them down and they don't want to talk anymore."
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Victim blamed herself, not her By Elizabeth Neff The Salt Lake Tribune http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Jun/06132004/utah/175003.asp
At 31, Barbara Feaster is one of many adult victims of child sexual abuse still trying to heal.
Her father began molesting her when she was a small child, and the abuse continued into her teen years.
Like many victims, Feaster initially blamed herself, convincing herself she had only been dreaming her father crept into her room to accost her.
"It was really important for me to believe my dad loved me and that I was just a bad girl," she said. "If it was my fault, then I could do something to change it -- I could be a good girl and change and then my dad wouldn't have to hurt me anymore."
Her mother looked the other way, and Feaster told no one.
At the age of 14, she decided to steal a padlock to lock herself in her bedroom at night. That kept her safe until she was 16, when one night she forgot the lock and woke up to find herself being violated again.
"I jumped up and went to the bathroom and once again tried to convince myself that it was a dream and berated myself for having such horrible sick dreams about my father," she said.
Shortly after that incident, Feaster's father confessed the abuse to their family bishop, who ordered him to go to the police. He pleaded guilty, went to jail for 30 days and was placed on probation and the sex offender registry for 12 years.
Although many would consider his sentence a mere slap on the wrist, Feaster has mixed feelings about it.
"I definitely think that 30 days in jail is nothing compared to what he did because he molested me hundreds of times," Feaster said. "On the other side, there is this sense of loyalty and love you have for your parents. I know people who have recanted to save their parents from going to jail."
When her father was released, Feaser's mother told her -- not her husband -- to leave the home. In a foster care program, Feaster got counseling for the first time, an apartment of her own and help transitioning into a normal life.
Now Feaster has gathered a group of Utah women, uFOSTERsuccess, who have come forward to tell their stories in hopes of preventing child sexual abuse and promoting Utah's foster care system.
Married with children of her own, Feaster says she speaks with her parents now. Her father has agreed not to be alone with children and answers any questions she has about what took place during her childhood.
"I felt like I hated them for a long time and was really, really mad at them," she said. "Now it's different because they allow the relationship to be on my terms.
" There is a natural longing for people to want to be connected to their parents, to want to love their parents and have a good relationship with their parents, and I want that like everybody else wants it."
She tells her story in the hope that people will speak up about abuse to end its cycle. It also is part of her own healing process, which she says is ongoing.
"It's not a cure type of recovery," she said. "There are issues that will continue to come up your whole life, but if you work through them on a day-to-day basis you can be high-functioning and resilient."
Church official arrested in Internet sex sting
BUTTE, Mont. (AP) — An official in the LDS
Church was arrested in an Internet sex sting after
allegedly arranging to meet a 14-year-old girl in
Idaho.
Clayton R. Hildreth, stake president of the
Butte chapter of The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints, was taken into custody Wednesday at
a home in Boise.
Hildreth, 51, of Dillon was charged in federal
court with one felony count of using the Internet to
knowingly attempt to entice a minor to engage in
sexual activity. He was released on $50,000 bond after
a hearing Friday.
Over the past two months, police said, Hildreth
corresponded with Boise detectives posing as a
14-year-old girl in an online chat room and allegedly
sent explicit images of himself.
"We are disturbed by the allegations that our
local church leader may have engaged in improper
conduct," church officials said in a statement from
Salt Lake City. "Individuals found to be so involved
are released from ecclesiastical responsibilities."
Please note that Presiding Bishop Glen L. Pace reported that satanic, sex abuse of over 60 victims all individually testified that their perpetrators were leaders in the LDS church, Bishops, Stake Presidents, Tabernacle Choir members, and even higher positions.
http://www.mormon.citymax.com/page/page/55282.htm
The book "Paper Dolls", describes personal testimony of two affluent Utah neighborhoods involved in satanic, sexual abuse. One incident describes the adult daughter and son-in-law of an apostle as perpertrators in the abuse! Just as the Catholic Church has been exposed allowing sexual abuse and other atrocites, to be covered-up for generations, the LDS Church is also finally being exposed.
The LDS church and the Catholic church are implicated on pages 118-119 by Senator Byrd in Cathy O'Brien's book, "The Trance Formation of America" as both being in support of the CIA MKUltra mind control which involves the sexual abuse of children. These church leaders have allowed leadership positions of authority to justify the raping of the people; sexually, financially, and emotionally. (The secret temple blood oaths required of the LDS and the masons are satanic.)
Portland Archdiocese Filing Chapter 11
By AVIVA L. BRANDT, Associated Press Writer
PORTLAND, Ore. - The Portland Archdiocese said Tuesday that it will file for bankruptcy because it can't afford to pay the potential cost of sex abuse lawsuits, becoming the first Roman Catholic diocese in the nation to seek such court relief. The Chapter 11 bankruptcy action, planned for Tuesday afternoon, freezes the start of a priest abuse civil trial involving the late Rev. Maurice Grammond, who was accused of molesting more than 50 boys in the 1980s. Grammond died in 2002.
Plaintiffs in two lawsuits involving Grammond have sought a total of more than $160 million. The archdiocese and its insurers already have paid more than $53 million to settle more than 130 claims by people who say they were abused by priests.
Dozens of other claims are pending, and at Tuesday's news conference, church officials said they could not afford what the plaintiffs are asking.
"The pot of gold is pretty much empty right now," Archbishop John Vlazny said, who warned parishioners last year in a letter that the archdiocese might go bankrupt.
James Devereaux, one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit that had been scheduled to go to trial Tuesday, vowed that in spite of the announcement, "We will continue our fight to finally get the archdiocese to accept the sin of its crimes."
David Slader, a plaintiffs' attorney, said the church was simply trying to avoid the details of the lawsuit coming out in court. "The bishop hasn't begun to touch his pot. He is lying," Slader told reporters.
No other U.S. diocese has ever declared bankruptcy, according to Fred J. Naffziger, a business law professor at Indiana University.
Tom Stilley, the attorney handling the archdiocese's bankruptcy filing, also said it was the first such case, but added other dioceses are considering the same step.
Chapter 11 bankruptcy frees an organization from the threat of creditors' lawsuits while it reorganizes. However, it could also open church records to public scrutiny, and could require church leaders to cede some control to the courts.
The Archdiocese of Boston, which was flooded with civil lawsuits after the clergy sex abuse crisis erupted there, considered bankruptcy, but opted to sell church real estate worth millions to settle the claims. The Diocese of Tucson, Ariz., last month said it was considering filing for bankruptcy to resolve pending lawsuits.
In the 1990s, the Archdiocese of Santa Fe, N.M., was brought to the brink of bankruptcy, and had to borrow from parish savings accounts to pay millions of dollars in abuse cases.
Nationwide, abuse cases are known to have cost the church more than $650 million since 1950.
Only a handful of priest abuse lawsuits have actually gone to trial in the United States; most settle beforehand in an effort to avoid a public airing of testimony.
In the case involving Grammond, Vlazny said, the diocese made "every effort to settle the cases fairly. I am committed to just compensation. These (plaintiffs') demands go beyond compensation. With 60 other claims pending, I cannot in justice and prudence pay the demands of these two plaintiffs."
In a deposition taken before his death, Grammond said, "I'd say these children abused me. They'd dive in my lap to get sexual excitement."
This is an example of the perpetrator's extreme justification, taking NO responsibility for their perverse acts.
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ask trauma
Trauma isn't a mormon anymore. I know he became a Mormon a few years ago, but last time someone asked him a question he denied being a Mormon and said he had left the Church of Latter Day Saints.
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so is he still affiliated with a particular church?
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so is he still affiliated with a particular church?
I don't know if he is a Christian anymore or if he even goes to Church. All I know is that the last time someone asked about him being a Mormon, he denied it, and said that he had only been in it for a year or so, but that he recently left them all together.
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Theyre like islam for white people, an obscure group of kooky folks with odd beliefs and are often ridiculed by the mainstream because they are full of ish.
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^ lmfao
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To the trauma of being molested, add betrayal by a loved one and the deep cultural and religious taboos surrounding incestuous sex, leading many families to try to cover up the abuse or handle it on their own.
LMAO...Now I see where the name comes from.
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To the trauma of being molested, add betrayal by a loved one and the deep cultural and religious taboos surrounding incestuous sex, leading many families to try to cover up the abuse or handle it on their own.
LMAO...Now I see where the name comes from.
LOLLLL I didn't even notice that shit...
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what does their new bible teach ?
I'm not too familiar with it but it says that the first man and woman were in America, and that Jesus visited the US. I'm not an expert though.
crazy bastards..
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Theyre like islam for white people, an obscure group of kooky folks with odd beliefs and are often ridiculed by the mainstream because they are full of ish.
Ask a Marine stationed in Al Anbar how obscure Muslims are
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Mormons are collecting EVERY information they can about humanity, they have a big vault somewhere near salt lake city where they are collecting every book, website reportory, information about everybody on the earth, and they put that on microfilms. If you want,you can consulte these. They also baptise everybody on the earth by random calling them and telling them they are baptised in the mormon religion. When i was i college, one of my teacher told me they called him to tell him they had baptise him so he could go to heaven with them, dude is really catholic but he said aight and was happy whit that. I hope they'll call me one day.
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an obscure group of kooky folks with odd beliefs and are often ridiculed by the mainstream because they are full of ish.
Mormons aren't that different from mainstream Christians, I actually saw one of the heads of the Mormon Church in an interview and he said that the official stance of the LDS (Mormons) is that they stand behind all the desicions George Bush as made, and they supported him in all his wars, because they feel like he is a good Christian and so on and so forth. They even got rid of polygamy in their religion so that they could please the mainstream Christians.
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i'm catholic but i'm from quebec, so you know that comme sense come before religion in everything. Never mix politics and religion, in fact i would rather vote for a laďc candidate
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south park had a pretty good episode on it
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an obscure group of kooky folks with odd beliefs and are often ridiculed by the mainstream because they are full of ish.
Mormons aren't that different from mainstream Christians, I actually saw one of the heads of the Mormon Church in an interview and he said that the official stance of the LDS (Mormons) is that they stand behind all the desicions George Bush as made, and they supported him in all his wars, because they feel like he is a good Christian and so on and so forth. They even got rid of polygamy in their religion so that they could please the mainstream Christians.
They got rid of polygamy because the government wouldn't recognize them as a religious organization and tax them if they didn't get rid of it.
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Lot of ignorance here, I'll mention what I know. I'm not a mormon, but I did go to a mormon church for a year or so. I imagine that most of you would enjoy it, they are without a doubt the nicest people I've ever met in my life.
I'll also temper this by saying that every christian in the world believes that the earth was flooded, and a 600 year old man built a big boat, and put two of every animal in it, and then landed it on a mountain 40 days later.
ahem.
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Mormons basically believe that they are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They believe in the old testament, and the new testament. They believe that Adam, the first man, was a priest of God, and he passed the priesthood down through his lineage until basically John the Baptist was the only priest walking the earth... Jesus came to John the Baptist to be baptised by him, and was made a priest, on earth, by John the Baptist. Jesus then set his church up on earth, with his 12 apostles. They believe everything in both bibles.
They also believe that God forsaw that the earth would fall into darkness, the 'priesthood' would be lost from the earth, and that the church of christ would eventually be perverted. Mind you, this is basically what protestants believe. They believe that the catholic church perverted Christ's true, original church that he sat up on earth, and even changed the bible to suit their own beliefs. that's the whole reason the protestant churches were formed... to rebel from the Catholic church, which is the rubble that is left from the Church that Jesus Christ himself set up on earth when he was here around 33 A.D..
So Mormons believe, that seeing this, God sent one of the tribes of israel to the americas. He sailed here with his family, and set up on this continent, and wrote down what happened. Lots of wars, blah blah blah, time passes, Jesus visits the Americas after he's resurrected (He famously says he has other flocks to tend in the New Testament when he arises to heaven). Jesus comes to America to visit the tribe of Israel living here in 33 A.D. (or whatever year his death is). A few more years pass, and all of the tribe are eventually killed off, except for one man named Mormon. Mormon takes all of the stories this tribe has written over the centuries, and inscribes them on a bunch of gold plates in hyroglyphs. He gives them to his son, a great warrior named Moroni. Moroni protects the plates for years, until he's instructed to bury them on a hillside, he does, and dies soon after, the last priest of this lost tribe of Israel.
So Mormons believe that at this point, around 600 A.D., there is no true church of Christ left on the earth. The priests have all died in America, and in Israel all of the prophets have died or been murdered without having passed along the priesthood... the Catholic Church has fallen into corruption and changed the bible, changed the word of god, gotten political, etc.
A man named Joseph Smith in 1830 or so claims that he was walking in the woods, and a jesus and god appeared to him, and spoke with him. Later, an angel (Moroni) visited him, and told him where he buried the plates.
He digs the plates up, hardly anybody claims to have actually seen them, and he claims he's decyphering them. He produces the book of Mormon, which he claims is decyphered by the lord from the gold plates he found. He claims an angel took the plates back after the decyphering was finished.
Smith is accused of blasphemy, and after several bad business deals (he started a bank then went bankrupt), Smith is murdered by an angry mob in a jail cell.
His successor, Brigham Young, marches the mormons across the united states to Utah. Nearly half die on the march across the united states, they started too late in the fall.
When they arrive in Utah, many of the husbands have died, leaving dozens of women with nobody to take care of them, so Britgham Young (thinking that it's sinfull for a woman to live with a man that's not her husband or family) marries several women and gives them a place to stay. Most people feel that Young didn't have sexual relations with them, and it was generally an honest gesture of him trying to help take care of them.
Eventually, soon after, it gets perverted and many of the men are marrying several women with bad intentions.
The U.S. Government gets word of this, and sends the U.S. army to Utah with the instructions to murder all of the Mormons.
When they arrive in Utah, Young has ordered the foundations of their temple buried, and basically acts like they're all just settlers and they dont' know anything about polygamy, etc. So the army goes home. Young digs up the foundations of the Salt Lake Temple, and they're destroyed, they have to dig everyting up and start over again. Eventually, they build this:
(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WAAAAC8b4MKkbNclzJUyS68HZqZXQ4tNLYtFqrl9!UocBYB4MT9q47Io1JF1rYhDm97zoP1FS97CfDBOGf3ASzZ1!SMVVpGlCMbxe7trykzVLPu5GcPhTN7gqey4O4hgAAAAAAAAAAA/Salt%20Lake%20Temple.bmp?dc=4675486484366360511)
One of the most beautiful monuments to God the world has ever seen.
In a few more years, the United States passes a law saying that polygamy is illegal, the church immediately issues the same law saying that the lord has commanded them that they are to live peacefully and legally, and to obey the law of the land as well as the law of the lord. To this day, Mormons generally support any law, and of course they support wars that the United States is involved in.
In the tradition of Smith, the church has an elected (by the apostles) President, who's considered a prophet of God.
Some of the things they believe are that Christianity is the true religion, but all religions have merit and knowledge. They don't look down upon any religion and generally don't care if you join theirs or not. That doesn't mean they won't bug you about it until you die, though.
Mormons believe that nearly everyone will make it to heaven. Even suicide victims and murderers make it to heaven, they believe. The New Testament mentions 3 levels of heaven, Mormons take this literally as meaning that there are varying degrees of glory... i.e., Moses and Mother Theresa will almost assuredly reach the upper tier of heaven, whereas lowlifes like you and I aren't as glorious as Moses or Mother Theresa, so we may only reach the second level of heaven. Kind of like having Vanilla Ice Cream, or Vanilla Ice Cream with a Cherry on top of it.
They believe that since Christianity is the true religion, everyone would join it if they understood completely, but many people don't with faith believe in Christ. When you die, you'll immediately see that of COURSE Christ was the savior, etc... so you will be regretful that you weren't baptised. So Mormons spend countless hours baptising, in proxy, every single name they can find that has ever lived on the earth. Now that sounds weird, but their whole purpose of doing it is, they want everyone who's died to have the option of being baptised, so everyone can make it into heaven. Pretty noble goal, I can't hate them for that.
You'll also see that this allows them to sidestep one of the biggest problems with traditional christianity. Catholics believe that people are born with Sin, and without accepting Christ as your savior, you will die in sin and be thrown to hell.
The problem with that is, people born in Africa or Asia don't always hear about Christ. So they don't even have the opportunity to be saved, so according to catholics, Ghandi is going to burn in hell. That makes no sense.
Mormons believe that you're judged by your heart and your actions, and would assume that a man like Ghandi will be one of the greatest angels in heaven.
They get a lot of unfair criticism, mainly by other Christians. That's pretty sad, they're the nicest people I've ever met... and like I said, Catholics believe in Noah but can't believe somebody found a book buried somewhere.
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Oh, I forgot to mention in case you didn't catch it. The whole purpose of the 'book of mormon', is that it's an un PERVERTED record of what Christ said when he was ressurrected. It was buried all the time that the Catholic Church was destroying and perverting things, so when it was 'unearthed', it's supposed to be an accurate representation of what Christ's true words, as pervertedly twisted in the new testament, were. So you get a lot of things where Christ says one thing in the new testament, but in the book of mormon, he says something similar that's slightly different. So with the old testament, the new testament, and the book of mormon, you get three different stories that you can use to determine god's will and etc.
I'm not saying it's true or not, you'll have to read it and decide for yourself, just saying what the reasoning was behind it.
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You sound very enthusiastic about it, so why did you decide to quit being a Mormon?
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christian dont believe in noah, it's a just a beautiful legend like their are so many others in the old testament. The truth is in the new testament. Maybe it's true that a man found a book, but jesus himself was drinkin wine ( he changed water in wine remember). So why
mormons refuse alcohol? And the bible dont promulgate polygamy. But i dont care about them, i'm not very religious, just like to argue about this shit. And yo, they can baptise me whenever they want, but i dont want to reach that third level shit, i'd rather spend my time in heaven with biggie and 2pac than ghandi and mother theresa
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christian dont believe in noah, it's a just a beautiful legend like their are so many others in the old testament. The truth is in the new testament. Maybe it's true that a man found a book, but jesus himself was drinkin wine ( he changed water in wine remember). So why
mormons refuse alcohol? And the bible dont promulgate polygamy. But i dont care about them, i'm not very religious, just like to argue about this shit. And yo, they can baptise me whenever they want, but i dont want to reach that third level shit, i'd rather spend my time in heaven with biggie and 2pac than ghandi and mother theresa
lol 8) +1
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You sound very enthusiastic about it, so why did you decide to quit being a Mormon?
Wasn't for me, it wasn't how I was raised, and I didn't feel I was going there for the right reasons.
To the other guy, they don't believe that you can't drink wine. They just choose not to. It stems from a meeting that the mormon presidency had back in the 1830's where afterwards, Smith's wife was cleaning up the huge mess they had left at a dinner table. Alcohol everywhere spilt on the floors, tobacco juice all over everything, etc. so Smith prayed about it since his wife was so upset at the mess. He says that God told him that he should tell the people that a wise man would not drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, or drink tea, because all three are harmful to your body. So he released it as a 'word of wisdom' from the lord. Most mormons don't drink alcohol or tea, or smoke, because they see it as a simple enough thing to give up. At the time, when Smith said that, it wasn't common knowledge that tobacco was harmful to you, and it's still not common knowledge that tea is although there are mixed reports.
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christian dont believe in noah, it's a just a beautiful legend like their are so many others in the old testament. The truth is in the new testament. Maybe it's true that a man found a book, but jesus himself was drinkin wine ( he changed water in wine remember). So why
mormons refuse alcohol? And the bible dont promulgate polygamy. But i dont care about them, i'm not very religious, just like to argue about this shit. And yo, they can baptise me whenever they want, but i dont want to reach that third level shit, i'd rather spend my time in heaven with biggie and 2pac than ghandi and mother theresa
Oh, and about 'the truth is in the new testament'. In the new testament, Jesus bled from every pore in the garden of Gessamine... in the new testament, when Christ died, the skies went black for three days and there was a huge earthquake. In the new testament, Jesus fed an entire multitude of people with a small basket of food. He brought a girl, and a man, back to life. So there's tons of miracles and craziness that Christians believe but yet don't believe this. You're also incorrect about the old testament, evangelical Christians (baptists, etc.) believe the old testament is the literal word of what happened.
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christian dont believe in noah, it's a just a beautiful legend like their are so many others in the old testament. The truth is in the new testament. Maybe it's true that a man found a book, but jesus himself was drinkin wine ( he changed water in wine remember). So why
mormons refuse alcohol? And the bible dont promulgate polygamy. But i dont care about them, i'm not very religious, just like to argue about this shit. And yo, they can baptise me whenever they want, but i dont want to reach that third level shit, i'd rather spend my time in heaven with biggie and 2pac than ghandi and mother theresa
Oh, and about 'the truth is in the new testament'. In the new testament, Jesus bled from every pore in the garden of Gessamine... in the new testament, when Christ died, the skies went black for three days and there was a huge earthquake. In the new testament, Jesus fed an entire multitude of people with a small basket of food. He brought a girl, and a man, back to life. So there's tons of miracles and craziness that Christians believe but yet don't believe this. You're also incorrect about the old testament, evangelical Christians (baptists, etc.) believe the old testament is the literal word of what happened.
yeah but he's the son of god, and all his miracles make sense and teach the way of life
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i dont believe in the old testament because we got no proof of anything. it's the same book as the thora. And in the old testament, god is cruel, he is puting job in deep shit just for fun. I think god is love and only love.
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i dont believe in the old testament because we got no proof of anything. it's the same book as the thora. And in the old testament, god is cruel, he is puting job in deep shit just for fun. I think god is love and only love.
i also used to have a problem with the story of job.
these were my problems:
a) you are worried about job, what about his wife and kids? they died. and while job is extremely holy and close with god, are all his kids like that as well?
b) at the end job gets a new wife and family; but what about the psychological scars? all is not well if your first family died horrifically.
c) god is personified. watching, being questioned and doubted by satan...etc.
these are my solutions:
a) if the human body is temporary but the soul is eternal, then does it really matter what suffering the body/person goes through. the pain, the death...those things don't matter. especially if there is a greater reward in the end, but even without the reward. there is a saying that it is impossible to hurt another, it's only possible to hurt oneself. the notion being that the physical body is not the self, thus others cannot be harmed; but the aggression is sin, bad karma...etc.
b & c) the story is allegory and thus not perfect; but it doesn't need to be perfect. it's a poorly crafted story, but not meant to be taken literally. and not representative of something that god did, but of something someone thought god would do.
i do think there is an important message about suffering and death; that they are not things to fear..etc. very easy to say, much harder to accept. but without question elements of that story are flawed. but we seem to disagree about the flawed elements.