West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on April 16, 2006, 06:35:11 AM
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by Abdul Muhammad
"The Easter Service–considered the most sacred observance of the year––focuses the Christian community on the miracle of His resurrection much like Christmas focuses it on His birth.
"But on a day that is considered so sacred, people worship with bunny rabbits, hot cross buns and colored eggs. What do these things have to do with worshiping Jesus Christ or commemorating His resur-rection? Moreover, why didn’t anyone observe Easter in the Bible?"
Calling it "The oldest feast of the Christian Church," the writers notice that "... the apostolic fathers do not mention it" and that when we first heard of it, principally through the Controversy of the Quartodecimans, is purely accidental.
"That’s right: The word Easter is never even mentioned in the Bible. Although ‘Easter’ is found once in the King James translation, scholars today agree that the Greek word translated ‘Easter’ (pascha) in Acts 12:4 should be translated ‘Passover.’" The English term (Easter) ... relates to Estre, a Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring ... the Babylonian name for this goddess was Ishtar. The Phoenician name was Astarte, the wife of the sun god, Baal, the worship of whom is continually denounced in the Bible as the most abominable of all pagan idolatry (I Kings 22:53; Jer. 32:35).
"This goddess is actually ancient Semiramis, the mother and wife of Nimrod, the mighty warrior who rebelled against God (Gen. 10:8-9).
"A controversy calling for the annual Sunday observance of ‘Easter’ continues for almost 200 years, until Easter was officially adopted by the church at Rome at the time of Constantine in A.D. 325.
"At the time of Jesus Christ and the apostles, no one had ever kept Lent–the 40 days of abstinence preceding Easter. Much like Easter, it has pagan origins: It was "directly borrowed from the worshipers of the Babylonian goddess," says Alexander Hislop in his book "THE TWO BABYLONS." "Such a Lent of 40 days, in the Spring of the year, is still observed by the Yezidis or pagan devil worshipers of Kurdistan, who have inherited it from their early masters, the Babylonians."
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I like the day off on Monday.
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happy easter
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happy easter
Easter is a hoax.
The holidays in America are promoted by big business advertisers, and they are a successful marketing tool.
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^^^ I don't know exactly if you wish us a Happy Easter or you are trying to show that we celebrate a day that isn't mentioned in the Bible. To my shame...i never read the Bible, but if you say so it may be true. It's sumthin sacred you know, even if it is or not mentioned in the Bible, every Christian knows that Jesus really resurrected and about red eggs it says in the Bible about'em. When Virgin Maria went to Jesus who was on the cross she had a basket of eggs and Jesus' blood pour on them...About bunnys and shit like that it's all media and merchandise man. Did you know that Santa Clause is not dress in red and white?! I didn't but in the ancient stories he is described as wearing blue and white(he;s a crip not a blood) ;D Anyways...the red santa is just a result of marketing especially Coca-Cola...
Happy Easter to everyone on DubCC !
Dubz up !
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happy easter
Easter is a hoax.
The holidays in America are promoted by big business advertisers, and they are a successful marketing tool.
infnite.. this post proves once and for all what a CUNT you are.. and a stupid one at that.
even IF america's capitalism has distorted it.. easter was being celebrated in europe before america was even discovered. nearly all america's culture is 'borrowed'.
what you posted is LIES. its easy to find references to easter going back to 1000 years before america was discovered.
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infnite.. this post proves once and for all what a CUNT you are.. and a stupid one at that.
even IF america's capitalism has distorted it.. easter was being celebrated in europe before america was even discovered. nearly all america's culture is 'borrowed'.
what you posted is LIES. its easy to find references to easter going back to 1000 years before america was discovered.
^^Try actually reading my post before you begin slandering me. I never said America invented Easter.
If you read what I posted you would see that it mentions that Easter was established during the rule of Constantine 300 years after Jesus.
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Give it up you bigot.
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Happy Ressurection(cant spell it) Day
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be happy with the day off infinite, like the rest of the world
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by Abdul Muhammad
"The Easter Service–considered the most sacred observance of the year––focuses the Christian community on the miracle of His resurrection much like Christmas focuses it on His birth.
"But on a day that is considered so sacred, people worship with bunny rabbits, hot cross buns and colored eggs. What do these things have to do with worshiping Jesus Christ or commemorating His resur-rection? Moreover, why didn’t anyone observe Easter in the Bible?"
Calling it "The oldest feast of the Christian Church," the writers notice that "... the apostolic fathers do not mention it" and that when we first heard of it, principally through the Controversy of the Quartodecimans, is purely accidental.
"That’s right: The word Easter is never even mentioned in the Bible. Although ‘Easter’ is found once in the King James translation, scholars today agree that the Greek word translated ‘Easter’ (pascha) in Acts 12:4 should be translated ‘Passover.’" The English term (Easter) ... relates to Estre, a Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring ... the Babylonian name for this goddess was Ishtar. The Phoenician name was Astarte, the wife of the sun god, Baal, the worship of whom is continually denounced in the Bible as the most abominable of all pagan idolatry (I Kings 22:53; Jer. 32:35).
"This goddess is actually ancient Semiramis, the mother and wife of Nimrod, the mighty warrior who rebelled against God (Gen. 10:8-9).
"A controversy calling for the annual Sunday observance of ‘Easter’ continues for almost 200 years, until Easter was officially adopted by the church at Rome at the time of Constantine in A.D. 325.
"At the time of Jesus Christ and the apostles, no one had ever kept Lent–the 40 days of abstinence preceding Easter. Much like Easter, it has pagan origins: It was "directly borrowed from the worshipers of the Babylonian goddess," says Alexander Hislop in his book "THE TWO BABYLONS." "Such a Lent of 40 days, in the Spring of the year, is still observed by the Yezidis or pagan devil worshipers of Kurdistan, who have inherited it from their early masters, the Babylonians."
Even if its mentioned in the bible or not it makes no difference Easter is a holy holiday for christians because we remember Jesus being resurected. Marketing has taken over a bit to get the children involved and make some $$$, just like christmas some people forget the real reason behind these events. I don't know why your trying to discredit them, we all have are own ways of celebrating Jesus, in my opinion if your religious it doesn't matter how follow the religion as long as you do it in a way which fits your beliefs and not trying to use your religion against others, so you will be comfortable when the time comes to meet God.
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this reminds me of a dude that was slandering christmas, because its so commercialised... well it still brings a smile to a childs face, and it brings everyone together, dont diss it..
so you would prefer easter to be just another day ?
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infnite.. this post proves once and for all what a CUNT you are.. and a stupid one at that.
even IF america's capitalism has distorted it.. easter was being celebrated in europe before america was even discovered. nearly all america's culture is 'borrowed'.
what you posted is LIES. its easy to find references to easter going back to 1000 years before america was discovered.
^^Try actually reading my post before you begin slandering me. I never said America invented Easter.
If you read what I posted you would see that it mentions that Easter was established during the rule of Constantine 300 years after Jesus.
happy easter
Easter is a hoax.
The holidays in America are promoted by big business advertisers, and they are a successful marketing tool.
slander? ask yourself what kind of nasty vile person posts up something like this? you gotta be a heartless cold empty soul to post this kind of thing. you're a worthless person with no compassion or value to society.
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when seer gets mad... damn the boy gets mad. ;D
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slander? ask yourself what kind of nasty vile person posts up something like this? you gotta be a heartless cold empty soul to post this kind of thing. you're a worthless person with no compassion or value to society.
lol
Easter is the most Holy of days for Christians as we celebrate Christ's suffereing and dying on the cross as well as his ressurection to save us from sin and bring us everlasting life. the term itself "easter" im not sure but may just be made up but the actual significance of the event is huge.
this is obviously something mentioned continuously in the Bible as the whole Christian faith revovles around it. the Easter with the bunnies and hot cross buns and egg hunts is just a marketing tool that appeals to kids and makes them all warm and fuzzy inside ;D.
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lol @ u easter bunnies catchin feelins
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happy easter
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Easter is the most widely celebrated, oldest and most important event in Christian history. In most every Christian country, Easter is more important than Christmas. This is the day Yeshua Ben Yosef resurrected, and was witnessed by his disiples and then other people. Of course they didn't celebrat it in the Bible, the Bible, every Christian was still Jewish, "Jesus" was a rabbi, and the Christian Church was still finding its self. Now, 2000 years later, of course we have traditional celebrations, the church has evolved for better or for worst, English speaking people know Yeshua Ben Yosef as Jesus Christ (which is Greek), and instead of being dark Middle Eastern man with feet of bronze and hair of wool, his a white guy who could be mistaken for French. But it does not change the message, it does not change the spirital meaning of who he is, and what happened 2000 years ago, and it does not change the fact that he is the son of God to many people, including myself. Easter is not a hoex, it's a celebration for one of the greatest events, if not the greatest event in Christian history. Most of the New Testiment is dedicated to this day, this is the day that brought hope to the people of that era, because it proved to them that the son of God walked with them, and it proved to many that God does indeed exist.
Now from the true meaning of Easter, to the American meaning of Easter... Happy Easter ya'all
(http://www.easterbunnys.net/bunny6.gif)
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Easter is the most widely celebrated, oldest and most important event in Christian history. In most every Christian country, Easter is more important than Christmas. This is the day Yeshua Ben Yosef resurrected, and was witnessed by his disiples and then other people. Of course they didn't celebrat it in the Bible, the Bible, every Christian was still Jewish, "Jesus" was a rabbi, and the Christian Church was still finding its self. Now, 2000 years later, of course we have traditional celebrations, the church has evolved for better or for worst, English speaking people know Yeshua Ben Yosef as Jesus Christ (which is Greek), and instead of being dark Middle Eastern man with feet of bronze and hair of wool, his a white guy who could be mistaken for French. But it does not change the message, it does not change the spirital meaning of who he is, and what happened 2000 years ago, and it does not change the fact that he is the son of God to many people, including myself. Easter is not a hoex, it's a celebration for one of the greatest events, if not the greatest event in Christian history. Most of the New Testiment is dedicated to this day, this is the day that brought hope to the people of that era, because it proved to them that the son of God walked with them, and it proved to many that God does indeed exist.
Now from the true meaning of Easter, to the American meaning of Easter... Happy Easter ya'all
(http://www.easterbunnys.net/bunny6.gif)
word
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Happy Easter everyone.
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Why does it bother you if Christians celebrate Easter? I'm agnostic but it doesn't bother me in the least bit if people celebrate easter, hanukkah (i'm sure i butchered the spelling), ramadan, whatever. This day doesn't hold significance to me at all, but it does to others. So on a day that some people do find happiness, why does that bother you?
If you're so secure in your religion, why are you always worried about what the next man is doing? Ever heard of live and let live? I'm sure on your holy days, you feel really good or whatever. So who gives a fuck? If you're so all knowing and really at peace as you repeatedly claim, you wouldn't be tortured by these things as you are.
I honestly think you are one of the more deeply confused individuals on these boards.
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Why does it bother you if Christians celebrate Easter? I'm agnostic but it doesn't bother me in the least bit if people celebrate easter, hanukkah (i'm sure i butchered the spelling), ramadan, whatever. This day doesn't hold significance to me at all, but it does to others. So on a day that some people do find happiness, why does that bother you?
most christian holidays do have pagan origins, so asking people their opinions on these holidays isn't necessarily an intolerant question. the catholic church hijacked and redefined many pagan holidays as a way of attracting christian converts.
there are several christian sects that do not support these holidays. jehovah's witnesses do not celebrate easter. seventh day adventists (i attended this church as a youth) acknowledge the pagan origins, but see no real harm in celebrating christmas or easter...etc. even if it is a pagan holiday that has adapted pagan symbolism; it's not like they start worshipping the pagan gods.
i don't see the harm in questioning the holiday, or asking people why they celebrate it. down in mexico they took the week off and were going to church everyday. that can't be a bad thing.
why isn't the effect to which the catholic church shaped the current direction of christianity, and the motivation behind those actions a valid question? the catholic influence represents an interesing shift in focus, as many of the early christians largely focused on understanding and following christ's teachings; yet the catholic church shifted that focus to a celebration of christ, and to a lesser extent mary. the easter holiday is a direct reflection of this.
i don't see this as an issue of intolerance.
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Why does it bother you if Christians celebrate Easter? I'm agnostic but it doesn't bother me in the least bit if people celebrate easter, hanukkah (i'm sure i butchered the spelling), ramadan, whatever. This day doesn't hold significance to me at all, but it does to others. So on a day that some people do find happiness, why does that bother you?
most christian holidays do have pagan origins, so asking people their opinions on these holidays isn't necessarily an intolerant question. the catholic church hijacked and redefined many pagan holidays as a way of attracting christian converts.
there are several christian sects that do not support these holidays. jehovah's witnesses do not celebrate easter. seventh day adventists (i attended this church as a youth) acknowledge the pagan origins, but see no real harm in celebrating christmas or easter...etc. even if it is a pagan holiday that has adapted pagan symbolism; it's not like they start worshipping the pagan gods.
i don't see the harm in questioning the holiday, or asking people why they celebrate it. down in mexico they took the week off and were going to church everyday. that can't be a bad thing.
why isn't the effect to which the catholic church shaped the current direction of christianity, and the motivation behind those actions a valid question? the catholic influence represents an interesing shift in focus, as many of the early christians largely focused on understanding and following christ's teachings; yet the catholic church shifted that focus to a celebration of christ, and to a lesser extent mary. the easter holiday is a direct reflection of this.
i don't see this as an issue of intolerance.
You were raised an adventist? When did you coonvert and why? (just wondering)
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You were raised an adventist? When did you convert and why? (just wondering)
i was never baptised into the adventist church, so technically i never left the adventist church, i simply stopped attending.
i had never found the bible satisfying, at the time the old testament represented laws of a god that seemed too personified and too whimsical with his wishes. if god created everyone, why then does he have a chosen people; and chooses to destroy others? why does he nitpick and punish his prophets (moses) for seemingly trivial reasons?
i was also dissatisfied with the new testaments portrayal of christ. why is it that the apostles and early disciples that interacted with christ directly, had family members raised directly, enjoyed christ's direct presence and miracles; yet his later followers have nothing but faith in the older stories to go on. that dichotomy disturbed me. if christ were god; how could anyone in his direct presence deny him? witnessing miracles directly is far greater evidence than having faith in a story. there is a significant difference between the original apostles and disciples, and his current followers, with the advantage being to the former
the old testament does little more than scare people with the ill-tempered whimsical god. the new testament provides the perfect arguments to subjugate people to oppressive governments as all the world is evil, is controlled by evil, and the world is falling apart as evil nations will rise up to dominate and persecute the true believers. but this bleak outlook doesn't matter as the physical world is meaningless.
both messages seemed unsatisfactory to me.
in contrast, studying the qu'ran has caused me to have a greater appreciation for both the old and new testament.
in terms of the old testament:
the nature of god is not whimsical, and his desire is not to force man to obey laws robotically. rather, the nature of god is unappreciable, "god's will" or the natural order of things is one that favors peace, harmony, and for man to recognize it's true nature and worship his creator.
god does not have a chosen people; god's people are actually those people that recognize that there is one creator and worship that creator. prophets and messengers have visited different people throught time with the sole intention of disseminating knowledge and restoring that natural order.
in terms of the new testament:
this life is important for more than simply preparing for the afterlife. this life should be enjoyed, and as this life is a test; part of that test is acting to preserve the natural order of things by standing up to oppression and injustice. in this sense, islam is empowering for the oppressed. as christ (in the qu'ran) is a prophet; and not a god to be worshipped: one need not obsess over whether or not miracles of christ can be proven. that is largely irrelevant. rather, pay attention to what christ taught and what he said. even if all the miracles attributed to christ were false, his message and the example of his life are still true.
people continue to accuse islam of being intolerant towards other religions; yet studying the qu'ran reveals the exact opposite; as god has sent various messengers to different peoples and several prophets as well; if one were to inspect other religions (beside the major three) for the key principles of monotheism, prayers, charity, final judgement for this life...etc; one would have to respect those principles as true, even if the framing is slightly different. just as the qu'ran states that islam existed before the qu'ran was delivered to the prophet muhammad; one would have to conclude that other people's across the world have had some enlightened messenger that would have conveyed these principles.
to conclude, the teachings in the adventist church were unsatisfactory for me; and the qu'ran provides me a greater understanding and appreciation for the bible, religion and life.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So when did all this start happening for you? How old were you and how were you introduced to Islam and the Quran?
P.S. I never felt the Gospel was a way to stay oppressed it just states you shouldn't commit evil to fight evil, but that no one can really be perfect so just make sure you are sorry when you do wrong and try harder to keep from doing it the next time.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So when did all this start happening for you? How old were you and how were you introduced to Islam and the Quran?
infinite sent me a copy of the qu'ran in january, and i began studying it.
P.S. I never felt the Gospel was a way to stay oppressed it just states you shouldn't commit evil to fight evil, but that no one can really be perfect so just make sure you are sorry when you do wrong and try harder to keep from doing it the next time.
i agree that there are other ways to interpret the gospel; but the gospel has been used as a tool of oppression; and the emphasis on the afterlife has been used as a mechanism to subjugate conquered peoples.
i was in monterrey mexico last week (business \w a client based in mexico), i visited a couple local museums and was able to see some of the exhibits on the aztecs and other native cultures. it's one things to hear the story of how religion was theoretically used to subjugate peoples; it's extremely powerful to be able to see the actual tools that were used. they artifacts of crosses with an image representing the face of jesus blended along with other symbols of the native religions. indicating that "our god has dominated your gods"; and also tricking people to embrace and worship jesus along with the native customs. they also had artifacts of mary with the baby jesus and the back drop of native symbols and images. the usurping of the symbols of those native religions very closely parallels the catholic churches policy of adopting pagan holidays and reinterpretting them within christianity.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So when did all this start happening for you? How old were you and how were you introduced to Islam and the Quran?
infinite sent me a copy of the qu'ran in january, and i began studying it.
P.S. I never felt the Gospel was a way to stay oppressed it just states you shouldn't commit evil to fight evil, but that no one can really be perfect so just make sure you are sorry when you do wrong and try harder to keep from doing it the next time.
i agree that there are other ways to interpret the gospel; but the gospel has been used as a tool of oppression; and the emphasis on the afterlife has been used as a mechanism to subjugate conquered peoples.
i was in monterrey mexico last week (business \w a client based in mexico), i visited a couple local museums and was able to see some of the exhibits on the aztecs and other native cultures. it's one things to hear the story of how religion was theoretically used to subjugate peoples; it's extremely powerful to be able to see the actual tools that were used. they artifacts of crosses with an image representing the face of jesus blended along with other symbols of the native religions. indicating that "our god has dominated your gods"; and also tricking people to embrace and worship jesus along with the native customs. they also had artifacts of mary with the baby jesus and the back drop of native symbols and images. the usurping of the symbols of those native religions very closely parallels the catholic churches policy of adopting pagan holidays and reinterpretting them within christianity.
So you've only been Muslim since January?
And who cares what people use in the name of a religion and what that has to do with a religion. The Turks used Islam to take over and oppress my ancestors for 400 years, and then used it kill 1.5 million Armenians in a holocaust, and whatever Greek they found, then sent all the Greeks in Turkey into Greece in hopes of there being more people than resources to take care of them. I never held Islam at fault because some jackass in Turkey enslaved my great great great great Grandfather and told him "you know if you were Muslim we couldn't enslave you", a nice little trick I'm sure that got many slaves to convert just to get out of bondage.
For the record I'm Orthodox Christian and the Cathloic Churches decision don't have much affect on me or how I believe. Even the Easter Eggs stem from a story that Mary Magdelene turned white eggs into red eggs infront of Caesar. I can read up on how Islam was created from the paganism in the area. The moon God Al ilah of the old Pagan arabs seems to some little connections to to aspects of Islamic beliefs.
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many muslims nowadays use their religion as an excuse to commit horrific crimes just like some blinded Christians misused the name of Christ as an excuse for other crimes like the Crusades. there r always a few castaways that have no real knowledge or understanding of their religion and just use it as an excuse to pursue thier individual desire.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So when did all this start happening for you? How old were you and how were you introduced to Islam and the Quran?
infinite sent me a copy of the qu'ran in january, and i began studying it.
P.S. I never felt the Gospel was a way to stay oppressed it just states you shouldn't commit evil to fight evil, but that no one can really be perfect so just make sure you are sorry when you do wrong and try harder to keep from doing it the next time.
i agree that there are other ways to interpret the gospel; but the gospel has been used as a tool of oppression; and the emphasis on the afterlife has been used as a mechanism to subjugate conquered peoples.
i was in monterrey mexico last week (business \w a client based in mexico), i visited a couple local museums and was able to see some of the exhibits on the aztecs and other native cultures. it's one things to hear the story of how religion was theoretically used to subjugate peoples; it's extremely powerful to be able to see the actual tools that were used. they artifacts of crosses with an image representing the face of jesus blended along with other symbols of the native religions. indicating that "our god has dominated your gods"; and also tricking people to embrace and worship jesus along with the native customs. they also had artifacts of mary with the baby jesus and the back drop of native symbols and images. the usurping of the symbols of those native religions very closely parallels the catholic churches policy of adopting pagan holidays and reinterpretting them within christianity.
So you've only been Muslim since January?
And who cares what people use in the name of a religion and what that has to do with a religion. The Turks used Islam to take over and oppress my ancestors for 400 years, and then used it kill 1.5 million Armenians in a holocaust, and whatever Greek they found, then sent all the Greeks in Turkey into Greece in hopes of there being more people than resources to take care of them. I never held Islam at fault because some jackass in Turkey enslaved my great great great great Grandfather and told him "you know if you were Muslim we couldn't enslave you", a nice little trick I'm sure that got many slaves to convert just to get out of bondage.
For the record I'm Orthodox Christian and the Cathloic Churches decision don't have much affect on me or how I believe. Even the Easter Eggs stem from a story that Mary Magdelene turned white eggs into red eggs infront of Caesar. I can read up on how Islam was created from the paganism in the area. The moon God Al ilah of the old Pagan arabs seems to some little connections to to aspects of Islamic beliefs.
your wrong here ,the moon god was called hubal .but in arabic when we say gods we say illah so ,before islam there was more the one god so hubal was called illah hubal and he was the moon god. islam doesn't have to do anything with the moon ,then when the ottamon khalifa started they took their one emblem and put it in every mosque ,to show their control over the region. so in arabic illah means one of the gods .allah means the god .thats like in english you call the hindu deties gods ,but call jesus god. so illah----gods allah----the god(one--no partner)
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So you've only been Muslim since January?
february.
And who cares what people use in the name of a religion and what that has to do with a religion.
i agree with you. you could see the hypocrisy in the actions of cortez who was espousing the teachings of christ and at the same time obsessed with the gold and wealth of the aztecs. his actions had no real correlation to the teachings of christ.
the point that i was making was that one reason i had interpretted the message of the new testament as one that subjugated was because of how it had been used to subjugate. how it had been interpretted as a message to accept oppression and look towards the afterlife.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So when did all this start happening for you? How old were you and how were you introduced to Islam and the Quran?
infinite sent me a copy of the qu'ran in january, and i began studying it.
P.S. I never felt the Gospel was a way to stay oppressed it just states you shouldn't commit evil to fight evil, but that no one can really be perfect so just make sure you are sorry when you do wrong and try harder to keep from doing it the next time.
i agree that there are other ways to interpret the gospel; but the gospel has been used as a tool of oppression; and the emphasis on the afterlife has been used as a mechanism to subjugate conquered peoples.
i was in monterrey mexico last week (business \w a client based in mexico), i visited a couple local museums and was able to see some of the exhibits on the aztecs and other native cultures. it's one things to hear the story of how religion was theoretically used to subjugate peoples; it's extremely powerful to be able to see the actual tools that were used. they artifacts of crosses with an image representing the face of jesus blended along with other symbols of the native religions. indicating that "our god has dominated your gods"; and also tricking people to embrace and worship jesus along with the native customs. they also had artifacts of mary with the baby jesus and the back drop of native symbols and images. the usurping of the symbols of those native religions very closely parallels the catholic churches policy of adopting pagan holidays and reinterpretting them within christianity.
So you've only been Muslim since January?
And who cares what people use in the name of a religion and what that has to do with a religion. The Turks used Islam to take over and oppress my ancestors for 400 years, and then used it kill 1.5 million Armenians in a holocaust, and whatever Greek they found, then sent all the Greeks in Turkey into Greece in hopes of there being more people than resources to take care of them. I never held Islam at fault because some jackass in Turkey enslaved my great great great great Grandfather and told him "you know if you were Muslim we couldn't enslave you", a nice little trick I'm sure that got many slaves to convert just to get out of bondage.
For the record I'm Orthodox Christian and the Cathloic Churches decision don't have much affect on me or how I believe. Even the Easter Eggs stem from a story that Mary Magdelene turned white eggs into red eggs infront of Caesar. I can read up on how Islam was created from the paganism in the area. The moon God Al ilah of the old Pagan arabs seems to some little connections to to aspects of Islamic beliefs.
your wrong here ,the moon god was called hubal .but in arabic when we say gods we say illah so ,before islam there was more the one god so hubal was called illah hubal and he was the moon god. islam doesn't have to do anything with the moon ,then when the ottamon khalifa started they took their one emblem and put it in every mosque ,to show their control over the region. so in arabic illah means one of the gods .allah means the god .thats like in english you call the hindu deties gods ,but call jesus god. so illah----gods allah----the god(one--no partner)
I meant it as a counter point to the claims that Christianity had been paganized. I didn't mean that Islam was founded on the moon God. I'm just saying there are muslims that "this" about Christianity, and chrsitians that say "that" about Islam. And athiests that think both are nuts. I think the two different sides of finger pointing is just one trying to justify their beliefs over another. I don't need justifivation. I belive what I feel is right and see no point in trying to prove religion since I know that elder monks and imams have spent lifetimes of prayer, faith and wisdom and still can't convince the other.
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I think the two different sides of finger pointing is just one trying to justify their beliefs over another.
let's clarify this: i wasn't finger pointing; i was illustrating how christianity had been used to both oppress people and then subjugate them to the laws of their oppressors. the adoption of the symbolism of the native religions were a part of this. we both agree that this has nothing to do with christianity. but a perversion used by individuals for their own gain. this returns to the original question of why do christians continue to embrace these holidays with the pagan roots, as originally they had nothing to do with christianity.
it isn't an attack on christianity but on traditions that have their roots in deception and oppression.
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lol @ u easter bunnies catchin feelins
u catch the same feelings when someone talks shit about islam
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Why does it bother you if Christians celebrate Easter? I'm agnostic but it doesn't bother me in the least bit if people celebrate easter, hanukkah (i'm sure i butchered the spelling), ramadan, whatever. This day doesn't hold significance to me at all, but it does to others. So on a day that some people do find happiness, why does that bother you?
most christian holidays do have pagan origins, so asking people their opinions on these holidays isn't necessarily an intolerant question. the catholic church hijacked and redefined many pagan holidays as a way of attracting christian converts.
there are several christian sects that do not support these holidays. jehovah's witnesses do not celebrate easter. seventh day adventists (i attended this church as a youth) acknowledge the pagan origins, but see no real harm in celebrating christmas or easter...etc. even if it is a pagan holiday that has adapted pagan symbolism; it's not like they start worshipping the pagan gods.
i don't see the harm in questioning the holiday, or asking people why they celebrate it. down in mexico they took the week off and were going to church everyday. that can't be a bad thing.
why isn't the effect to which the catholic church shaped the current direction of christianity, and the motivation behind those actions a valid question? the catholic influence represents an interesing shift in focus, as many of the early christians largely focused on understanding and following christ's teachings; yet the catholic church shifted that focus to a celebration of christ, and to a lesser extent mary. the easter holiday is a direct reflection of this.
i don't see this as an issue of intolerance.
PAGANS! Pagans
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So I guess it's a hoax so these big American companies can make money off easter eggs and lil bunnies right? pshhhhhh.... Look, alot of Christian activities doesn't make sense to the modern man just like Islam. The day however shouldn't be slandered because it doesn't make sense to you, it promotes remembrance and brings families together which is a great and positive thing to do. In the middle east days like this aren't CELEBRATED, they are MOURNED with negative energy. I have personally experienced both sides. That's the only difference.
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Easter > sucks
Islam > gay
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happy easter
Easter is a hoax.
The holidays in America are promoted by big business advertisers, and they are a successful marketing tool.
So?
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I think the two different sides of finger pointing is just one trying to justify their beliefs over another.
let's clarify this: i wasn't finger pointing; i was illustrating how christianity had been used to both oppress people and then subjugate them to the laws of their oppressors. the adoption of the symbolism of the native religions were a part of this. we both agree that this has nothing to do with christianity. but a perversion used by individuals for their own gain. this returns to the original question of why do christians continue to embrace these holidays with the pagan roots, as originally they had nothing to do with christianity.
it isn't an attack on christianity but on traditions that have their roots in deception and oppression.
I never meant to impy I was talking about you. I was just saying what I htink people in general are doing, Christian and Muslim, when they spend so much time trying to disprove the validity of the other religion.
As for your question on why Christians embrace the holidays; It's not the date of the year or the little customs that go along with the days but the meaning behind them. Christmas ultimately represents the birth of Christ for Christians and whether he was born on that day or not isn't the point. The point is that they want to express devotion to the one thay call their saviour. The same for Easter and celebrating what they believe Jesus did. Are the days a main part of the religion or essential in order to fully be Christian? Not as far as I'm concerned, but I don't see anything wrong with celebrating on those days. I would go out on Haloween as a kid and it had no religious significance to me. It was just a day to have some fun.
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Basically, what I'm seeing in this thread is that people don't really care if the holiday is fake because they say "it's all about fun, family, and having a good time!"
Well, that sounds nice, but if Americans are so much about family and having a good time, then why are they among the world leaders in suicide rates, anti-depression drug use, and broken, dysfunctional families?
...the reason why is America is the best at selling you a fantasy. Everybody thinks they are going to grow up and be rich and famous and fall in love and have all the women and go on a great adventure; basically they think life is like the movies because most Americans spend their lives watching Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks movies. Many people chase after that fantasy and when they don't find anything on the other end they become frustrated.
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Basically, what I'm seeing in this thread is that people don't really care if the holiday is fake because they say "it's all about fun, family, and having a good time!"
That's because not everyone here is Christain, therfore not everyone takes it seriously. Since American has this thing called freedom of religon, Easter can't be designated as a religious holiday.
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That's because not everyone here is Christain, therfore not everyone takes it seriously. Since American has this thing called freedom of religon, Easter can't be designated as a religious holiday.
If Americans are having so much fun with all your fake holidays then why are ya'll on so many anti-depression drugs?
Americans act like your supposed to live in a constant state of euphoria. There's always a new movie, a new album, another holiday, another weekend, another reason to party, so on and so forth.
It's like Imam Jamil Al Amin says on drug use:
"This society arouses within you desires and passions that make you seek to escape reality by being high. Everything is geared toward keeping you in a state of euphoria. One holiday follows the next: Christmas to New Years, to Easter, to Mothers Day, to Fathers Day, to the NBA playoffs, to the Superbowl, to the Championship fights, to Olympics. Everything keeps you high. Everything is geared towards keeping you away from encountering reality, everything is geared to keep you from remembering God. The problem is not so much crack and cocaine, but that we live in a system that can infect, that develops within you an appetite to divorce yourself from reality. Therefore when intoxicants are introduced to you as a physical experience, you have already been conditioned spiritually and mentally. A condition has been created where you begin to oppress yourself in a state that is unnatural."
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^^^
stop hating asshole, just cuz you lack testosterone doesnt mean you have to envy/hate/desire american life because our stereotype is alpha. i know where ur whole fucked up psyche comes from its transparent.
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That's because not everyone here is Christain, therfore not everyone takes it seriously. Since American has this thing called freedom of religon, Easter can't be designated as a religious holiday.
If Americans are having so much fun with all your fake holidays then why are ya'll on so many anti-depression drugs?
Americans act like your supposed to live in a constant state of euphoria. There's always a new movie, a new album, another holiday, another weekend, another reason to party, so on and so forth.
It's like Imam Jamil Al Amin says on drug use:
"This society arouses within you desires and passions that make you seek to escape reality by being high. Everything is geared toward keeping you in a state of euphoria. One holiday follows the next: Christmas to New Years, to Easter, to Mothers Day, to Fathers Day, to the NBA playoffs, to the Superbowl, to the Championship fights, to Olympics. Everything keeps you high. Everything is geared towards keeping you away from encountering reality, everything is geared to keep you from remembering God. The problem is not so much crack and cocaine, but that we live in a system that can infect, that develops within you an appetite to divorce yourself from reality. Therefore when intoxicants are introduced to you as a physical experience, you have already been conditioned spiritually and mentally. A condition has been created where you begin to oppress yourself in a state that is unnatural."
Why do you speak in second person plural? You seem to forget that you are American too, therfore you will suffer the same problems as me or any other American. How does that feel? But wait since you're Muslim you are not like the rest of Americans. Your religous discrimination sickens me like only a white man's discrimination can.
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Every time I think your started to grow up brian you show your true colors and show what a piece of shit you really are. And no im not catching feelings over this, not im not getting offended b/c im not religious at all. Im just stating the obvious, your a piece of shit brian.
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I hope you enjoyed having the day off on our fake holiday.
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happy easter
Easter is a hoax.
The holidays in America are promoted by big business advertisers, and they are a successful marketing tool.
infnite.. this post proves once and for all what a CUNT you are.. and a stupid one at that.
even IF america's capitalism has distorted it.. easter was being celebrated in europe before america was even discovered. nearly all america's culture is 'borrowed'.
what you posted is LIES. its easy to find references to easter going back to 1000 years before america was discovered.
nice
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what the fuck is he talking about ??? The word easter is in the bible, i dont know in english but i read the bible and the word Pâques is in it. And The eggs and the chocolate are just to celebrate, i know muslims like to celebrate with ak-47 bullets in the sky and shit, but christians enjoy relaxing not going to work and eat chocolate
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i think it's important to respect traditions, wheter it's religious or not, it shows were we come from and if we forget traditions we mostly forget who we are
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That's because not everyone here is Christain, therfore not everyone takes it seriously. Since American has this thing called freedom of religon, Easter can't be designated as a religious holiday.
If Americans are having so much fun with all your fake holidays then why are ya'll on so many anti-depression drugs?
Americans act like your supposed to live in a constant state of euphoria. There's always a new movie, a new album, another holiday, another weekend, another reason to party, so on and so forth.
It's like Imam Jamil Al Amin says on drug use:
"This society arouses within you desires and passions that make you seek to escape reality by being high. Everything is geared toward keeping you in a state of euphoria. One holiday follows the next: Christmas to New Years, to Easter, to Mothers Day, to Fathers Day, to the NBA playoffs, to the Superbowl, to the Championship fights, to Olympics. Everything keeps you high. Everything is geared towards keeping you away from encountering reality, everything is geared to keep you from remembering God. The problem is not so much crack and cocaine, but that we live in a system that can infect, that develops within you an appetite to divorce yourself from reality. Therefore when intoxicants are introduced to you as a physical experience, you have already been conditioned spiritually and mentally. A condition has been created where you begin to oppress yourself in a state that is unnatural."
your familiy must be ashamed of you, you're totaly brainwashed and you are trying to fool us all. Life is short, that's why we enjoy it. You should go live in a cave or deep in the woods
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Basically, what I'm seeing in this thread is that people don't really care if the holiday is fake because they say "it's all about fun, family, and having a good time!"
Well, that sounds nice, but if Americans are so much about family and having a good time, then why are they among the world leaders in suicide rates, anti-depression drug use, and broken, dysfunctional families?
...the reason why is America is the best at selling you a fantasy. Everybody thinks they are going to grow up and be rich and famous and fall in love and have all the women and go on a great adventure; basically they think life is like the movies because most Americans spend their lives watching Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks movies. Many people chase after that fantasy and when they don't find anything on the other end they become frustrated.
yeah, and when they dont get what they want, they turn to islam and start talking crazy shit.
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That's because not everyone here is Christain, therfore not everyone takes it seriously. Since American has this thing called freedom of religon, Easter can't be designated as a religious holiday.
If Americans are having so much fun with all your fake holidays then why are ya'll on so many anti-depression drugs?
Americans act like your supposed to live in a constant state of euphoria. There's always a new movie, a new album, another holiday, another weekend, another reason to party, so on and so forth.
It's like Imam Jamil Al Amin says on drug use:
"This society arouses within you desires and passions that make you seek to escape reality by being high. Everything is geared toward keeping you in a state of euphoria. One holiday follows the next: Christmas to New Years, to Easter, to Mothers Day, to Fathers Day, to the NBA playoffs, to the Superbowl, to the Championship fights, to Olympics. Everything keeps you high. Everything is geared towards keeping you away from encountering reality, everything is geared to keep you from remembering God. The problem is not so much crack and cocaine, but that we live in a system that can infect, that develops within you an appetite to divorce yourself from reality. Therefore when intoxicants are introduced to you as a physical experience, you have already been conditioned spiritually and mentally. A condition has been created where you begin to oppress yourself in a state that is unnatural."
man, you understand nothing about society.
so you want us all to just sit in prayer ? do nothing but pray our whole life ?
to survive you need a goal, something to look forward to, something to strive for. otherwise what is the point in living ? why would God put us here, if he just wanted us to worship him 24/7 ?
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Wow
:D
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Why do you speak in second person plural? You seem to forget that you are American too, therfore you will suffer the same problems as me or any other American. How does that feel? But wait since you're Muslim you are not like the rest of Americans. Your religous discrimination sickens me like only a white man's discrimination can.
Islam is not a religion in the Western sense of the word; Islam is a way of life. Christians go to church on Sunday, and then on Monday they go back to work as Americans. However, a Muslim is a Muslim 24-7.
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man, you understand nothing about society.
so you want us all to just sit in prayer ? do nothing but pray our whole life ?
to survive you need a goal, something to look forward to, something to strive for. otherwise what is the point in living ? why would God put us here, if he just wanted us to worship him 24/7 ?
No, Islam is not that kind of religion. You don't have to be in off in a cave making prayer and meditation, it is a practical religion; and it doesn't prevent you from seeking economic prosperity or enjoying yourself pleasureable activities; although Allah has mentioned certain acts which are forbidden in our religion. Like alcohol for example.... But I guess from your perspective not being able to drink alcohol would ruin almost all the holidays...
Christmas- drinking holiday
St. Patricks Day- drinking holiday
Halloween- drinking holiday
4th of July- drinking holiday
etc.
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^^^
if i pay for your surgery and skin dying, would you become black?
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or how bout this. maybe if you had spent more time as a teen finding out about your own people and not "muslim" blackness, you wouldnt be such a disturbed kook. youre white, embrace it
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man, you understand nothing about society.
so you want us all to just sit in prayer ? do nothing but pray our whole life ?
to survive you need a goal, something to look forward to, something to strive for. otherwise what is the point in living ? why would God put us here, if he just wanted us to worship him 24/7 ?
No, Islam is not that kind of religion. You don't have to be in off in a cave making prayer and meditation, it is a practical religion; and it doesn't prevent you from seeking economic prosperity or enjoying yourself pleasureable activities; although Allah has mentioned certain acts which are forbidden in our religion. Like alcohol for example.... But I guess from your perspective not being able to drink alcohol would ruin almost all the holidays...
Christmas- drinking holiday
St. Patricks Day- drinking holiday
Halloween- drinking holiday
4th of July- drinking holiday
etc.
yeah man, i like to drink.. and what ?
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Why do you speak in second person plural? You seem to forget that you are American too, therfore you will suffer the same problems as me or any other American. How does that feel? But wait since you're Muslim you are not like the rest of Americans. Your religous discrimination sickens me like only a white man's discrimination can.
Islam is not a religion in the Western sense of the word; Islam is a way of life. Christians go to church on Sunday, and then on Monday they go back to work as Americans. However, a Muslim is a Muslim 24-7.
Oh, I get it. So Muslims spend 24-7 in there churches praying. They don't eat sleep or procreate because they're Muslims 24-7. Christains on the other hand are only Christains on Sunday according to you.
So if a Christain is only a Christain when he's at church/praying, and Muslims are Muslims 24-7 then that means they spend 24-7 praying/worshiping. They don't eat, sleep, procreate, or do anything like that because a Muslim is a Muslim 24-7. :P
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or how bout this. maybe if you had spent more time as a teen finding out about your own people and not "muslim" blackness, you wouldnt be such a disturbed kook. youre white, embrace it
You think he gave a rat's ass about Black people or Islam when he was a teen? He converted to Islam like 4 years ago and now he thinks he is the ultimate teacher, and we are all miserable Americans (except him and every other Muslim in America of course).
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Oh, I get it. So Muslims spend 24-7 in there churches praying. They don't eat sleep or procreate because they're Muslims 24-7. Christains on the other hand are only Christains on Sunday according to you.
So if a Christain is only a Christain when he's at church/praying, and Muslims are Muslims 24-7 then that means they spend 24-7 praying/worshiping. They don't eat, sleep, procreate, or do anything like that because a Muslim is a Muslim 24-7. :P
No, not exactly.
You see, Islam means "submission to the Creator". So it's a state of mind and a state of being. Even going to work becomes an act of worship, because we go to work for the sake of Allah; and we don't forget to remember him even when at work. There is giudance in the Qu'ran for how a Muslim should conduct his business. It's like that in all things; it's spending your whole life in submission to Allah. Even sex is an act of worship. The Prophet Muhammad (saws) was asked by his companions "How is it, that Allah rewards us for having sexual relations with our wife?" The Prophet Muhammad replied, "If you were out in the world engaging in unlawful activities Allah would punish you correct? Well, likewise; Allah rewards when you engage in what is permissable".
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Why do you guys take Infinite so seriously? He's obviously joking. You can tell by his writing that he isn't as completely stupid as he pretends to be. He's just trying to get people riled up. Just like he did when he said 2Pac deserves his own religion and Dr. Dre has more musical talent Ludwig Von Beethoven.
I no longer take any offense to what he says. He's no Muslim. He's just some kid white kid in the suburbs with a computer and a lot of free time. There is no doubt that he knows about Islam and studied it but he follows it about as much as CWalker follows Christianity, (I realize Cordell Walker could just be a gimmick too). I'm a Christian and I know it. I don't even go to Church in the traditional sense because Christianity is about a lot more than that. I'm not perfect but I don't pretend to be, and nothing ol' Brian here can say will ever make me doubt my faith or lifestyle. You guys shouldn't waste valuable typing time on the guy. If you really want to piss him off just don't respond to any of his posts at all from now on. I'm going to try it. Let's see how long before he snaps.
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Oh, I get it. So Muslims spend 24-7 in there churches praying. They don't eat sleep or procreate because they're Muslims 24-7. Christains on the other hand are only Christains on Sunday according to you.
So if a Christain is only a Christain when he's at church/praying, and Muslims are Muslims 24-7 then that means they spend 24-7 praying/worshiping. They don't eat, sleep, procreate, or do anything like that because a Muslim is a Muslim 24-7. :P
No, not exactly.
You see, Islam means "submission to the Creator". So it's a state of mind and a state of being. Even going to work becomes an act of worship, because we go to work for the sake of Allah; and we don't forget to remember him even when at work. There is giudance in the Qu'ran for how a Muslim should conduct his business. It's like that in all things; it's spending your whole life in submission to Allah. Even sex is an act of worship. The Prophet Muhammad (saws) was asked by his companions "How is it, that Allah rewards us for having sexual relations with our wife?" The Prophet Muhammad replied, "If you were out in the world engaging in unlawful activities Allah would punish you correct? Well, likewise; Allah rewards when you engage in what is permissable".
And what makes you think Christianty doesn't have the same belief?
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Why do you speak in second person plural? You seem to forget that you are American too, therfore you will suffer the same problems as me or any other American. How does that feel? But wait since you're Muslim you are not like the rest of Americans. Your religous discrimination sickens me like only a white man's discrimination can.
there's an interesting psychological/philosophical debate that you are touching on there. the basic notion is that you are what you identify with. i touched on this with shallow about how american blacks identify with a race; whereas jamaicans and africans identify with nations. (africans also identify with tribes within their nations); europeans identify with their nations, and even many white americans still identify with their european nations of origin.
if you look at a religion like hinduism, it states that all of these identities are false; illusions that people believe which only serves to divide them.
in a similar manner, the qu'ran states in several places that all people are the same, created from the same pair. thus, the only identification one should have is with other muslims. the qu'ran states that peaceful and amicable relations should be maintained with everyone, but the only identification one should make is with other muslims; as that is the only identification that matters.
so while you challenge infinite and criticize him for denying "who he is"; why shouldn't infinite be allowed to define who he is on his own?
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And what makes you think Christianty doesn't have the same belief?
the qu'ran asserts that the followers of christ's teachings do believe the same; unless they have distorted the teachings of christ.
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Why do you speak in second person plural? You seem to forget that you are American too, therfore you will suffer the same problems as me or any other American. How does that feel? But wait since you're Muslim you are not like the rest of Americans. Your religous discrimination sickens me like only a white man's discrimination can.
there's an interesting psychological/philosophical debate that you are touching on there. the basic notion is that you are what you identify with. i touched on this with shallow about how american blacks identify with a race; whereas jamaicans and africans identify with nations. (africans also identify with tribes within their nations); europeans identify with their nations, and even many white americans still identify with their european nations of origin.
if you look at a religion like hinduism, it states that all of these identities are false; illusions that people believe which only serves to divide them.
in a similar manner, the qu'ran states in several places that all people are the same, created from the same pair. thus, the only identification one should have is with other muslims. the qu'ran states that peaceful and amicable relations should be maintained with everyone, but the only identification one should make is with other muslims; as that is the only identification that matters.
so while you challenge infinite and criticize him for denying "who he is"; why shouldn't infinite be allowed to define who he is on his own?
Because who he is and what he is is 2 diffrent things.
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Because who he is and what he is is 2 diffrent things.
is he left handed or right handed?
is he tall or short?
is he healthy or sick? happy or sad? noodles or rice? chicken or steak? boxers or briefs?
what he is is alot of things, none that he has denied. yet you focus on one; and attribute more importance to one then all the rest. why is that? why can't infinite decide what is important to him?
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But he HAS idenified himself with America. But it seems a lot of the times when he wants to bash America he changes his mind as says you americans. Then he'll turn around an idenify himself with Arabs, Blacks etc.
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Because who he is and what he is is 2 diffrent things.
is he left handed or right handed?
is he tall or short?
is he healthy or sick? happy or sad? noodles or rice? chicken or steak? boxers or briefs?
what he is is alot of things, none that he has denied. yet you focus on one; and attribute more importance to one then all the rest. why is that? why can't infinite decide what is important to him?
Who you are is your choice. What you are is a combination of many factors. If you are born white can you change that? It's not what you idenify with, it's what you are. If you are born American can you vhange that? No. It's what you are. He will say Americns are living a lie, but then say he isn't. It's a contradiction.
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Who you are is your choice. What you are is a combination of many factors. If you are born white can you change that? It's not what you idenify with, it's what you are. If you are born American can you vhange that? No. It's what you are.
how relevant is it, if it isn't relavent to him? he hasn't denied his race, he simply has not defined himself by that.
He will say Americns are living a lie, but then say he isn't. It's a contradiction.
if he doesn't view himself as an american, than it makes sense. in some legal sense, sure; it's a contradiction; he is an american citizen. however, he isn't filing a legal brief. if he does not identify with americans; he can exclude himself freely.
what i'm getting at is this; you aren't arguing his point that americans are living a lie; you are arguing the semantics of what it means to be american.
why argue the semantics of some ancillary issue and ignore the meat of his argument which is that [most] americans are living a lie.
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if he doesn't view himself as an american, than it makes sense.
I'm your average white American citizen
if he doesn't view himself as an american, than it makes sense. in some legal sense, sure; it's a contradiction; he is an american citizen. however, he isn't filing a legal brief. if he does not identify with americans; he can exclude himself freely.
what i'm getting at is this; you aren't arguing his point that americans are living a lie; you are arguing the semantics of what it means to be american.
why argue the semantics of some ancillary issue and ignore the meat of his argument which is that [most] americans are living a lie.
1st you misunderstand what I am argueing about (that may be my fault for not making it clear enough). I'm not argueing whether Americans are living a lie or not (although you can probably figure out where I stand on that). I'm trying to show the contradiction in his thought process.
2nd of all he dosen't say most Americans are living a lie. He says Americans are living a lie.
3rd he say he isn't living a lie.
4th he contradcts himself because he is American he's even said so himself.
I'm your average white American citizen
What I'm argueing is he contradictes himself in saying he is American, says Americans are living a lie, then thinks he isn't living a lie despite the fact that he is American.
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What I'm argueing is he contradictes himself in saying he is American, says Americans are living a lie, then thinks he isn't living a lie despite the fact that he is American.
isn't his contradiction proof that americans are living a lie? :P
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What I'm argueing is he contradictes himself in saying he is American, says Americans are living a lie, then thinks he isn't living a lie despite the fact that he is American.
isn't his contradiction proof that americans are living a lie? :P
LOL. Touché. It's not proof, but it is some damn good evidence.
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Basically, what I'm seeing in this thread is that people don't really care if the holiday is fake because they say "it's all about fun, family, and having a good time!"
Well, that sounds nice, but if Americans are so much about family and having a good time, then why are they among the world leaders in suicide rates, anti-depression drug use, and broken, dysfunctional families?
...the reason why is America is the best at selling you a fantasy. Everybody thinks they are going to grow up and be rich and famous and fall in love and have all the women and go on a great adventure; basically they think life is like the movies because most Americans spend their lives watching Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks movies. Many people chase after that fantasy and when they don't find anything on the other end they become frustrated.
Where do I start? The reason why the Holiday IS important isn't because Americans are ALL about family....It's actually the quite opposite, we don't spend enough time with family out here, our society pushes us not to. We all have too much going on, so something as simple as Easter gets people together, which is a good thing. Now is everyone sitting there talking about Jesus on the cross? NO, but it's JESUS who brings them together. Is everyone in Christmas talking about how Jesus was born? NO, they get gifts for each other and at least THINK about each other once a year and you get reminded who your true people are, and JESUS is what brought them together. Fake or not, it's a good thing. It's a GODLY thing. Now you want to go ahead and bring Muslims in, they also have holidays exactly like these. But instead of celebrating life, they mourn it. In the Middle East muthafucaz parade around BEATING THEMSELVES when holidays like these come around EVERY FUCKIN YEAR, it never ends. So it isn't because Americans are ABOUT family, it is because they are NOT! And I don't side with Americans, I side with pure logic.
And in the great words of my older uncle, when you fake it before you make it, you have a greater chance of making it, why? Because you're already studying the ways of the people who have made it without knowing it. You say America sells us all a fantasy? Yea they do, and it is the EXACT reason why we have the most successful people out of the whole world on this land. Why? Because they were all sold a fantasy when they were kids and were raised on having dreams and freedom of expressing it. This does not happen in other parts of the world. Therefore, they have very much less chance of expressing and following on their dreams. Do they have less talent than us? NO, they just don't have the opportunities that we have. And more importantly, they don't have no support, their souls have no courage to encourage them to follow on their dreams, their society doesn't make them feel as though they will be successful when they grow up. But this society does, and it is a positive thing to sell fantasies to kids when they're young, because it will make them strive for the better. Now ofcourse there's the smaller percentage of kids who turned spoiled or just fuck up, period. They get lost in fantasy. That's a whole different issue.
Also, you're exposed and brain-washed by all the Anti-Americans, I don't agree with alot of the bullshit in America either, but I do side with logic and logic says that the percentage of people who are on hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine is MUCH higher in the Middle East, a mostly Muslim region. So don't stereotype, be real about your shit. Have you ever been to the ghettos of Middle East and seen muthafucaz play with needles every other hour like its cigarrets? These are the same people who pray 5 times a day. Does that make the religion of Islam a bad thing? No, the principles are beautiful.
It is not the religion, it's the heart of the man. Remember that.
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^^ if that doesnt answer the ? im not sure what is.
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^^ if that doesnt answer the ? im not sure what will
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It is not the religion, it's the heart of the man. Remember that.
THANK YOU!
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I'm your average white American citizen
What I'm argueing is he contradictes himself in saying he is American, says Americans are living a lie, then thinks he isn't living a lie despite the fact that he is American.
^^^ You purposely quoted me out of context. I was clearing up the confusion because before people know me at the forum, they automatically think I'm from somewhere else, or that I'm African American, because there is a stereotype out there that white people in America are not Muslims. So I have to clear up the stereotype by explaining first that I have an average white American background; then I follow up by explaining the influence Islam has had on my life and how it changed me.
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But instead of celebrating life, they mourn it. In the Middle East muthafucaz parade around BEATING THEMSELVES when holidays like these come around EVERY FUCKIN YEAR, it never ends. So it isn't because Americans are ABOUT family, it is because they are NOT! And I don't side with Americans, I side with pure logic.
Also, you're exposed and brain-washed by all the Anti-Americans, I don't agree with alot of the bullshit in America either, but I do side with logic and logic says that the percentage of people who are on hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine is MUCH higher in the Middle East, a mostly Muslim region. So don't stereotype, be real about your shit. Have you ever been to the ghettos of Middle East and seen muthafucaz play with needles every other hour like its cigarrets? These are the same people who pray 5 times a day. Does that make the religion of Islam a bad thing? No, the principles are beautiful.
Rod, you shouldn't speak on behalf of the Muslim world because #1. you aren't a Muslim. Secondly, that practice you talk about of "BEATING THEMSELVES" is a practice that is not mentioned in the Qu'ran and was never done by the Prophet Muhammad (saws); it was actually a practice developed by a small percentage of Muslims to commemorate the assasination of the grandchildren of the Prophet Muhammad Hassan and Hussien (rahmatullah alaiy). Less than 10% of the Muslim world participates in that practice.
Also, Iran may have a drug problem, but that does not mean that the rest of the Muslim world does. 60% of Africa is Muslim, and the Muslim countries in Africa do not have drug problems. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world and they do not have a drug problem anywhere near the magnitude of the United States. etc., etc., etc.
Now, in your post you are measuring success and happiness in terms of wealth. America has proven itself to be excellent at accumulating wealth (nevermind for now that the wealth is hoarded by the top 1%, who has more wealth than the bottom 99%, or nevermind the fact that America has spent the last 50 years sabatoging the Iranian economy). However, America's wealth has nothing to do with Christianity, Western culture only became wealthy after they seperated from the church as a result of the renaissance. Islam experienced a millenium of economic prosperity while the Europe was in the dark ages. Islam does not discourage bussiness and trade as long as it is done in fairness. Infact, take Friday prayer for example (Friday is the most religious day of the week for Muslims), Allah does not tell Muslims to take the whole day off to pray, but rather he says to enjoin the midday prayer in congregation and then gives permission to go out and seek the bouties of the Lord in trade and commerce.
The whole fake it till you make it thing is not cool with me. I don't believe in being fake, I believe in keeping it real. I have different priorities then you. It's not worth it for me to be fake.
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Why does it bother you if Christians celebrate Easter? I'm agnostic but it doesn't bother me in the least bit if people celebrate easter, hanukkah (i'm sure i butchered the spelling), ramadan, whatever. This day doesn't hold significance to me at all, but it does to others. So on a day that some people do find happiness, why does that bother you?
most christian holidays do have pagan origins, so asking people their opinions on these holidays isn't necessarily an intolerant question. the catholic church hijacked and redefined many pagan holidays as a way of attracting christian converts.
there are several christian sects that do not support these holidays. jehovah's witnesses do not celebrate easter. seventh day adventists (i attended this church as a youth) acknowledge the pagan origins, but see no real harm in celebrating christmas or easter...etc. even if it is a pagan holiday that has adapted pagan symbolism; it's not like they start worshipping the pagan gods.
i don't see the harm in questioning the holiday, or asking people why they celebrate it. down in mexico they took the week off and were going to church everyday. that can't be a bad thing.
why isn't the effect to which the catholic church shaped the current direction of christianity, and the motivation behind those actions a valid question? the catholic influence represents an interesing shift in focus, as many of the early christians largely focused on understanding and following christ's teachings; yet the catholic church shifted that focus to a celebration of christ, and to a lesser extent mary. the easter holiday is a direct reflection of this.
i don't see this as an issue of intolerance.
PAGAN
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damn I love America, so sweet how we're #1
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Rod, you shouldn't speak on behalf of the Muslim world because #1. you aren't a Muslim. Secondly, that practice you talk about of "BEATING THEMSELVES" is a practice that is not mentioned in the Qu'ran and was never done by the Prophet Muhammad (saws); it was actually a practice developed by a small percentage of Muslims to commemorate the assasination of the grandchildren of the Prophet Muhammad Hassan and Hussien (rahmatullah alaiy). Less than 10% of the Muslim world participates in that practice.
Also, Iran may have a drug problem, but that does not mean that the rest of the Muslim world does. 60% of Africa is Muslim, and the Muslim countries in Africa do not have drug problems. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world and they do not have a drug problem anywhere near the magnitude of the United States. etc., etc., etc.
Now, in your post you are measuring success and happiness in terms of wealth. America has proven itself to be excellent at accumulating wealth (nevermind for now that the wealth is hoarded by the top 1%, who has more wealth than the bottom 99%, or nevermind the fact that America has spent the last 50 years sabatoging the Iranian economy). However, America's wealth has nothing to do with Christianity, Western culture only became wealthy after they seperated from the church as a result of the renaissance. Islam experienced a millenium of economic prosperity while the Europe was in the dark ages. Islam does not discourage bussiness and trade as long as it is done in fairness. Infact, take Friday prayer for example (Friday is the most religious day of the week for Muslims), Allah does not tell Muslims to take the whole day off to pray, but rather he says to enjoin the midday prayer in congregation and then gives permission to go out and seek the bouties of the Lord in trade and commerce.
The whole fake it till you make it thing is not cool with me. I don't believe in being fake, I believe in keeping it real. I have different priorities then you. It's not worth it for me to be fake.
I wasn't speaking on behalf of Muslims. You just love pointing out how I'm not a Muslim even though I'm Middle Eastern, like it matters to me. It's true, I don't practice Islam, so why should I label myself a Muslim since I'm Middle Eastern? All you see is extreme Muslims in your lil mosque and actually believe they represent majority of "Muslims". Well, here's the big secret....Most Muslims don't practice Islam. "Muslim" is just what they grew up as and usually they stay that way. When they say there are 1 billion Muslims in the world, they are measuring who is born into what. You act like Muslims are these superior non-sinning angels which they are not. And before you start talking shit about my family or people I hang out with, let me tell you that I've been to 11 different countries, lived in 4, from the slums to suburbs to murder capitals. I've analyzed all kinds of people, you have no clue what my life has been like, trust I know what I'm talking about. What's the point of a fake Muslim? It's non-sense. How can you do drugs, drink, party all night, fuck bitches, beat people up, commit all kinds of sins and then call yourself a Muslim because you pray to Allah 5 times a day and fast for 30 days? Maybe TECH or the majority of Muslims in my life can answer this for me, but then again, their answer won't make sense. If you aren't doing EXACTLY what Allah wants you to do, then you can't be a follower. So why label yourself a follower? A person like me truely believes that I won't go to hell for drinking, smokin and having relations with females. I truely believe I will go to heaven because I have a good heart and have been to places where I could have turned into a psycho just like the people I was riding with, but it was my good heart that turned me around after making so many mistakes. Does that make sense? I think it's a dis-respect to that religion or way of living to label myself something I don't follow or believe in. It's simple as that. Now if you wanna suck TECH's balls just because he labels himself a Muslim, be my guest. But just know that he represents over 80% of Muslims who pretty much follow this hypocracy. And I'm not exagerrating one bit. I've been to MANY churches, in some cases Christians are worse because they will lie their ass off infront of the cross in Church while they're fuckin everyone at that church. It's unbelivable. Although I have nothing against Tech, I'm sure me and him would get along just fine. I'm just making the point that we all know but choose to ignore.
Now let's see.... 60% of Africa might be Muslim, but more than 60% are also in Poverty, and they don't have access to drugs like they do in other parts of the world. Trust if they had access to that escape, they'd participate in it with all the hardships that they go through. Islam wouldn't get in the way of it for the majority of them. Even the most dedicated are human. And Indonesia? have you ever been there? I have, drugs are rare there also, plus it is a land of poverty for the most part. People in general aren't concerned with it in those areas. In both the Middle East and America, drugs are EVERYWHERE, word of mouth travels, money is being made, the governement has hands in it, therefore people have more access to it. And the problem isn't just in Iran LMAO... As a matter of fact they don't even like to see it as a problem in places like Afghanastan, Jordan, Sudan etc. Drugs abuse is normal just like female abuse out there. My whole point is, it isn't the religion. It's the heart of man and the society he's in.
And really, you're what I call a TRY-HARD. Most of your posts contain hate towards Christians, sometimes hidden but obvious, but at the same time you try to promote Islam. Well let me be the 1st to tell you how that does not work and never will.
Also, when I say "fake it till you make it", it isn't meant to be taken literally. It is all in the mind. I was only trying to show you how 'selling fantasies' to kids is actually a good thing and a confidence builder. But nevermind....I have no time to explain. I'm sure the people that want to understand will understand what I meant in my previous post.
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^^^ best post ever, dude nailed it
You act like Muslims are these superior non-sinning angels which they are not.....
What's the point of a fake Muslim? It's non-sense. How can you do drugs, drink, party all night, fuck bitches, beat people up, commit all kinds of sins and then call yourself a Muslim because you pray to Allah 5 times a day and fast for 30 days? If you aren't doing EXACTLY what Allah wants you to do, then you can't be a follower. So why label yourself a follower?
yep, just like these fuckin terrorists, they claim to be the best muslims and the ones committing violence in the name of the muslim god
yet they go against all that shit that they learn..... it's just like some weirdo who fuckin kills people and then thinks cause he believes in God that he's on the good side, and ONLY because he's religious and loves God.... that's why I hate fuckin religion
EVERY RELIGION is contradicting and full of bullshit losers who are bitter about some shit
religious freaks are just lost souls, they lost their minds and they think pledging to God will get them to where they need to be and make everything great
sounds like this clown Amir Allah Dickhead posting here, probably got tired of bein a faggot lil white boy being made fun of so he got all anti-America and anti-people and fuck everyone mentality, and so he found some religious bullshit that he bought and now he knows all whats up with the world.... bitch I know what's up with the world, get at me
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And really, you're what I call a TRY-HARD. Most of your posts contain hate towards Christians, sometimes hidden but obvious, but at the same time you try to promote Islam. Well let me be the 1st to tell you how that does not work and never will.
The bottom line is all the stuff your talking means absolutely zero to me when it comes to me striving to be a better person. Because, I've already lived with your mentality before I was Muslim. What matters to me is that when I was 18 years old and I was lost and devoid of giudance, there was a Muslim, from a Muslim country, who did care about following the Qu'ran, and who did show me that there was a better way of life out there than the one I was living. That meant something to me.
(Now that I think about it, we did have an Iranian immigrant at my jr. high and high school who was like you, my only impression of her was that she wanted to be like us Americans. I never paid any attention to her)
You only follow your desires, there is nothing impressive about that, a bird can do that. A bird follows it's instincts, works to feed itself, has offspring, and teaches it's offspring how to feed itself. However, I believe that as men we do have to provide for ourselves and families, and every man is inclined towards sex; but we also have a higher purpose and that purpose is to worship our Creator.
You may say that there are many Muslims who don't follow Islam, but there are also many millions that do, I see them everyday. Some may have shortcomings but as long as they make repentence to their Creator for their sins, then Allah can forgive because he created the condition of sin and he created the condition of forgiveness. We came from our Creator, and we will return to our Creator, I believe we should spend our lives worshipping him as well.
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And really, you're what I call a TRY-HARD. Most of your posts contain hate towards Christians, sometimes hidden but obvious, but at the same time you try to promote Islam. Well let me be the 1st to tell you how that does not work and never will.
Rod, your good at explaining yourself, and that's cool; you can go ahead and explain it to yourself. But all of that means zero to me. Your nothing new under the son. I have no doubt that there are thousands of people out there like you who don't care about following the Qu'ran or submitting to God, and just want to fullfill their desires. I'm totally aware of that. How do you think I grew up? What do you think I used to do back in the day?
But the bottom line is all the stuff your talking means absolutely zero to me. I've already lived with that mentality. What matters to me is that when I was 18 years old and I was lost and devoid of giudance, there was a Muslim, from a Muslim country, who did care about following the Qu'ran, and who did show me that there was a better way of life out there than the one I was living. I went to the masjid and found a whole community of people, everyone of them was more impressive than anyone I'd met previously in my life, I went to Hajj in Mekkah and found people from all over the striving to be better people and acting to please their Creator. So after you've seen and experienced that, why would I care about what your saying? Why would I be impressed with you? I know there are other people out there like you who come from Muslim countries and don't care about Islam. However, my focus is upon those who do, because they are a benefit to me and others.
And as far as Tech goes, he's way different than you. He is a Muslim. He identifies himself as a Muslim, and he makes repetence to his Creator for his sins.
You only follow your desires, there is nothing impressive about that, a bird can do that. A bird follows it's instincts, works to feed itself, has offspring, and teaches it's offspring how to feed itself. However, I believe that as men we do have to provide for ourselves and families, and every man is inclined towards sex; but we also have a higher purpose and that purpose is to worship our Creator.
You may say that there are many Muslims who don't follow Islam, but there are also many millions that do, I see them everyday.
::) Dude your a fuckin lame. You don't care what Rod is saying because you went to Hajj in Mekkah and saw others as brainwashed as you? And if you haven't noticed its YOU who people don't take serious here.
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Rod, your good at explaining yourself, and that's cool; you can go ahead and explain it to yourself. But all of that means zero to me.
Fallow your own advice. The funny thing is YOU started this topic and you are always starting topics about Muslims and what not and now that Rod Has come up with a good, well written arguement, you want him to keep it to himslef and it means zero to you.
But the bottom line is all the stuff your talking means absolutely zero to me.
It must mean something, becasue you post about Muslims all the time. Why does this Muslim issues mean nothing to you now?
Also, Iran may have a drug problem, but that does not mean that the rest of the Muslim world does. 60% of Africa is Muslim, and the Muslim countries in Africa do not have drug problems. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world and they do not have a drug problem anywhere near the magnitude of the United States. etc., etc., etc.
Yet another lie told by Infinte. Africa is 40% Muslim (same with Christianity) and both are spreading at a great rate. In fact there is great debate over which one is growing faster. The most populous country in Africa (Nigeria) is majority Christain and dosen't have a major drug problem.
I went to the masjid and found a whole community of people, everyone of them was more impressive than anyone I'd met previously in my life, I went to Hajj in Mekkah and found people from all over the striving to be better people and acting to please their Creator. So after you've seen and experienced that, why would I care about what your saying? Why would I be impressed with you?[/i]
I've been to a church IN LOS ANGELES when I was a kid (about 10 years old I think) and I saw women crying because they were so moved by worshiping and by the presence of God. Most of these people will think about the Lord in life as much as you any Muslim will think about Allah. So I ask you "So after you've seen and experienced that, why would I care about what your saying? Why would I be impressed with you?"
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haha, Infinite providing more reasons why he's a loser
his last post proved my previous post to be correct... he's just some lost confused bastard who got pissed at life and thinks to make it better he shall worship the almighty creator, and a better life awaits him
ey man, whatever turns you on, have fun wasting ur life, and I'll have fun wasting mine in your eyes
:firedevil: Satan is THA man
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how many times has Infinite been owned and proven wrong on this board?
I'm kinda curious
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how many times has Infinite been owned and proven wrong on this board?
I'm kinda curious
Shits uncountable
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And really, you're what I call a TRY-HARD. Most of your posts contain hate towards Christians, sometimes hidden but obvious, but at the same time you try to promote Islam. Well let me be the 1st to tell you how that does not work and never will.
All you gotta do is look at history to figure that out.
You don't have to agree with other's religions or beliefs, but at least RESPECT them. It's not that I'm scared or a pussy, I just do it out of respect. I still respect the ideas and purpose of the religion even if I don't believe in it. I don't agree with lots of the ideas and practices of Islam, but you'll never see me come up in here and tell you how I believe the religion is bogus. Never have, never will. You can't point it out because it doesn't exist. As long as a religion have positive teachings, I'm all for it.
That's one thing about most major religions I don't like: they don't teach tolerance towards other people. This goes for Muslims and Christians. Until Christians and Muslims can understand that they can't change eachother's minds (willingly or forcefully) then things will never change.
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All you see is extreme Muslims in your lil mosque and actually believe they represent majority of "Muslims". Well, here's the big secret....Most Muslims don't practice Islam. "Muslim" is just what they grew up as and usually they stay that way. When they say there are 1 billion Muslims in the world, they are measuring who is born into what.
zilla, you say things that are both insightful and yet also contradictory.
the world as a whole seems to be in a state of spiritual and conscious decline, as people across the world are living in impractical and unnatural communities and arrangements.
look first at your argument for the benefits for easter: you argued along the lines of strengthening the family bond. religion as an excuse to strengthen the family. you conceded that society pushes people away from spending time together, and now religion was having the effect of repairing that.
your argument is a condemnation of society; and an illustration of how a holiday with questionable origins has further lost it's religious value. a religious holiday that serves a function other than something religious or spiritual? to use your words...what's the point? isn't that what thanksgiving is for? any holiday can do that.
additionally, religion across cultures has acted to establish and repair a communal identity, the notion that all people were equal before god and should love each other...etc. religion serves to broaden ones identity beyond the boundaries of the family. now you argue that the value of religion is in repairing the family identity. this is yet another condemnation at how self-centered and selfish society and the human consciousness have become. if people use religion to focus on the family, when do they actually focus on their spirituality? surely all bases need to be covered. this is a problem that your argument identifies.
there is some contradiction in your statements as you have identified and acknowledged several problems, but at the same time you adorn america with praise. it's that mindset of the american dream, of capitalism and competition; that largely contributes to the selfish individualistic perspective and destroys that sense of community that religion characterizes. you can praise america for it's wealth, but to praise american values in a thread about christian holidays seems contradictory as american values are almost inherently anti-christian. they are mutually exclusive.
you touched on an interesting point with your example of muslims "raised as muslims without an appreciation for islam". there is a sense of irony there as qu'ran states directly "do not follow the traditions of your parents blindly without questioning it"; while those were passages ultimately comdemning the practice of idolatry, the same principles would apply to whatever belief system; mechanically following one's parents without a genuine appreciation for those beliefs and their purpose is of questionable value. the qu'ran also suggests it isn't until a person is mature (40 years old) that they can really be expected to appreciate life, purpose...etc. so the very arguments and situations you discuss are supported and predicted within the qu'ran as well.
at the same time, as you hinted this same condemnation applies to christianity. you could easily make the same arguments against individuals growing up in christian households, having an idea of "right and wrong" as expressed by the faith; but still lacking a genuine appreciation for it. and just as you ask: "what's the point of a fake muslim?" what's the point of a fake christian or fake religious holidays? it's like an iced out jesus piece in many ways; maybe it looks nice; but it's function bears no resemblence to the origin of it's purpose and symbolism.
infinite identified a problem, used easter as an example of this problem; and proposed a solution (islam)
you have assaulted his solution but in many ways conceded the existance of the problem. your comments seem more of a condemnation of society than a ringing endorsement of the easter holiday.
If you aren't doing EXACTLY what Allah wants you to do, then you can't be a follower. So why label yourself a follower?
i don't know that that is a fair assessment. no religion expects it's followers to be without sin. the qu'ran mentions a similar debate over whether to use the term muslim vs mu'men.
sura 49:14
The Arabs of the desert say, `We believe.' Say, `You have not truly believed yet, but rather say, `We have submitted, for true faith has not yet entered into your hearts.' But if you obey ALLAH and HIS Messenger, HE will not detract anything from your deeds. Surely, ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
but i don't think your point was the labels people apply or associate themselves with, but what good simply associating oneself with such a label actually does.
A person like me truely believes that I won't go to hell for drinking, smokin and having relations with females. I truely believe I will go to heaven because I have a good heart and have been to places where I could have turned into a psycho just like the people I was riding with, but it was my good heart that turned me around after making so many mistakes. Does that make sense?
one problem with religion is the strictness and absoluteness in the portrayal of punishment and reward. i am more inclined to believe that life and existence is a progression. similarly the qu'ran states that there are varying levels of reward; which also implies progression and graduation. greater reward reflects being closer to god. also; the idea of varying degrees of reward should dissuade all from questioning how sincere a muslim or christian or whatever is. each will be rewarded or punished what they deserve.
now, you state that you believe in heaven; yet you get to make up the criteria for heaven on your own? that's a very convenient arrangement. your conjecture could be correct; it's also possible that you are incorrect, and the requirements for heaven are a little more strict than you think. who knows? another purpose of religion is to provide a little guidance in resolving issues like that. which is why i find the notion of a religious holiday with no religious function to be a little amusing. heaven itself is a largely religious/spiritual idea; the notion that you could determine the rules on your own without guidance sounds very similar to the heroin addicts you describe thinking they are okay because they pray five times a day. maybe they are, maybe they aren't. i agree with your theory that it is what is in a person's heart that matters most; at the same time surely they would still benefit from appropriate guidance.
your argument as a whole is slightly contradictory as you excuse easter because people do get some good out of it (outside of religion); then you turn around and identify people who don't take religion seriously enough and suggest they suffer as a result...so which way is it? should people take religion seriously or not?
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That's one thing about most major religions I don't like: they don't teach tolerance towards other people. This goes for Muslims and Christians. Until Christians and Muslims can understand that they can't change eachother's minds (willingly or forcefully) then things will never change.
the qu'ran teaches tolerance.
sura 42:13-16
He decreed for you the same religion decreed for Noah, and what we inspired to you, and what we decreed for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: "You shall uphold this one religion, and do not divide it." The idol worshipers will greatly resent what you invite them to do. GOD redeems to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself only those who totally submit.
Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts.
This is what you shall preach, and steadfastly maintain what you are commanded to do, and do not follow their wishes. And proclaim: "I believe in all the scriptures sent down by GOD. I was commanded to judge among you equitably. GOD is our Lord and your Lord. We have our deeds and you have your deeds. There is no argument between us and you. GOD will gather us all together; to Him is the ultimate destiny."
Those who argue about GOD, after receiving His message, their argument is nullified at their Lord. They have incurred condemnation, and have deserved a severe retribution.
that sounds like tolerance.
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i've got to say this is one of those rare times that i agree 100% with what rod's saying
i just want to say a few things in DEFENSE of christianity of my beliefs here and what infinite has said to denigrate them, to make him and his religion look better
first i just want to say infinite you're living a lie. it's like rod said "you think that every muslum is going around acting like perfect angels" ....don't deny this because that is infact what you're thinking. You ALSO think that Christians are just these hypocrits that only go to church on sunday's then go back to being "evil devils" through out the week. Again i'm going to site Rod here....YOU DO RELIZE THAT A TRUE CHRISTIAN CAN FLIP IT AROUND ON MUSLUMS RIGHT? like rod i've travled around . i havn't LIVED in any other country but i've seen what i've seen and it's enough to make an educated statement.....not every muslum who claims to follow the muslum faith is as devoted to the teaching of the quaran. Many muslums around the world are as commited to the muslum beliefs as these "Evil Christian Americans" you speak and slander .......you want to hear the stories of some real christians
my mom (probably the most religious person i know, hell all my friends call her pastor Pam, and my friend chris even joked that if jesus is going to be seated at the right hand of the father, my mom would be seated at the left hand side)
My mom is the ONLY person i've ever known, who has gone into debt because she gave too much. my mom runs her own business , her own day care center and literally takes people (strangers) into our home from this daycare who are struggling help them out with bills , pays their rent, car payment, buy grocieries for them , ect. and expect NOTHING in return.....and every time when she is asked "why do you do this " she always tells them, "beacause it's waht god would have me do" . My mom was actually even given the monthly award her in Bakersfield for Person of the Month....and declined to accept it because she said "I do what i do to please God and to help people, i don't do it for myself, accepting this award would send the wrong message" ......then she said the same thing when she was nominated for person of the year.....
now lets talk about prayer and church. My mom beleives that Church is for fellowship and it should be reserved for sundays and holidays and that it should be something that you should be apart of daily...and by church she's not talking about some building you go to sit and kneel and read out of a prayer book some prayer you don't know what you're talking about and sing and listen to some dude talk....by church my mom means having fellowship with other TRUE BELIEVERS on a daily basis. Discussing god , what he's done, what he would have us do in a certain cituation ect. basically a support.my mom quotes this from the bible all the time "darkness corrupts good light" meaning that the secular world around us corrupts us from being the good god obeying followers we are and her thing is Light should engage with light to make it stronger to get rid of the darkness, and that's my mom's philosophy on church. now as far praying i don't know many people that do this ...but my mom gets up EVERY day at 2;00 am to pray until her first day care child arives some where around seven, then during nap time she has a bible study for an hour and half then when the kids leave around 6 pm her and my cousin Karen pray for another 2 to 3 to 4 or until they feel they're all prayerd out (lol) and this is just monday through friday ...lol in essence my mom spends a total of 9 hours a day praying or talking to god or doing something that involves her beliefs. and i'm sure if she didn't have to work or do daily chores and shit she'd pray all day which she basically does all week end. and my mom has friends that do this too so it's not like my mom is just some special case . I've met christians who are more in depth than this and i've met christians that is swear must be half angel or something cuz they're just PERFECT....they follow the bibles to the tee.
so infiinite not every christian is what you have in your mind from what your mom and dad are....or what you say rod is ......there are christians who ARE what they preach and then some. not every one of them is apart of this Secular systm that is America,many reject the secularism of it aswell..... I'm suprised you havn't encountered them. There's these tapes my mom always tries to get me to watch called "hells bells the dangers of rock n roll" and it's basically this christian company that makes documentaries about how morally wrong secular (mostly pop music) is wrong and derives people away from god the one my mom has tried....well actually made me watch was made in the 80's and yeah there are some groups in there that are Obvious Like Venom , Coven , and Slayer and Merciful Fate that are obviously satanic but then they launch into even artists that say they are christian and expose how they're not true to chritianity. and these are tapes that have are in circulation in the tens of millions in america , so again this isn't a small portion of america who is actually practicing what's in the bible there's alot more than what you see with your eyes
i'm not going to sit here and banter off about how christianity is the way (it's what I personally believe is the right way ) but i'm not going to sit here and denigrate Islam, or Buddism , or Judaism , just cuz some wolves in sheeps clothing from those religions go around saying they're of these faiths and committ hypocracies
i'm not going to judge Islam because 9 out of 1 billion muslums killed 3,000 innocent people because "allah" told them they were going to fuck some virgins in heaven if they did that
i'm not going to judge Islam because of the rapes, beatings, and killings that go on to this DAY in the name of Allah
because like you'll say "those only represent a perecentage of so called muslums" "they're not really muslums because they're not following alllah's word" .....and i'll agree with that
so brian......the next time you come into a thread or make one trying to generalize christians from a percentage of misguided wolves in sheeps clothing.....think of how easily it can be reciprocated back to your faith. Also you need to think to what your god has said about doing the things in which you are doing.....
....to paraphrase a teaching in the bible .....broad is the road to destruction and narrow is the road to salvation , many who believe and who are perceived to be servers of the one god, shall fall down this road of destruction, only a few who truley serve the one god will live in eternity with him.
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That's one thing about most major religions I don't like: they don't teach tolerance towards other people. This goes for Muslims and Christians. Until Christians and Muslims can understand that they can't change eachother's minds (willingly or forcefully) then things will never change.
the qu'ran teaches tolerance.
Of course it does, so does almost any other religon. The problem is that it is never fully practiced. People say that their religon is one of tolerance, and it is easy to provide evidence/proof of that. But then to got religious people on all ends killing, destroying, etc for their religon/beliefs. Is taking over a forgien counrty tolerance? Is killing that 7 year old kid by hijacking a plane tolerance?
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Of course it does, so does almost any other religon. The problem is that it is never fully practiced. People say that their religon is one of tolerance, and it is easy to provide evidence/proof of that. But then to got religious people on all ends killing, destroying, etc for their religon/beliefs. Is taking over a forgien counrty tolerance? Is killing that 7 year old kid by hijacking a plane tolerance?
you, shallow and rod are saying the same thing, this very point has been touched on throughout this thread; and i am not disagreeing. the only disagreement is that some people use the faults and hypocrisy of those that associate themselves with a religion as a condemnation of that religion. i myself had the wrong idea about christianity because i only saw the hypocrisy and deception, and not the truth.
also, the logical conclusion here is that if people sincerely appreciated religion the world would be a better place.
the only thing i am challenging is this notion that is fair to dismiss religion as some have corrupted it. religion is what you make it; and not necessarily what others tell you it needs to be.
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Evil Heathen PAGANS
Sun God Followers.
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I wasn't speaking on behalf of Muslims. You just love pointing out how I'm not a Muslim even though I'm Middle Eastern, like it matters to me. It's true, I don't practice Islam, so why should I label myself a Muslim since I'm Middle Eastern? All you see is extreme Muslims in your lil mosque and actually believe they represent majority of "Muslims". Well, here's the big secret....Most Muslims don't practice Islam. "Muslim" is just what they grew up as and usually they stay that way. When they say there are 1 billion Muslims in the world, they are measuring who is born into what. You act like Muslims are these superior non-sinning angels which they are not.
Nibs made many excellent points in his response to Rod, it made me want to add something to my previous response... Rod, I want to ask you, what would be the point of worship if it were only a matter of being born in a particular region?
The truth is that Islam is the religion of submission to the Creator, it is not attatched to any person, place, or thing in the creation. Being born in Mekkah does not gaurantee you will be a submitter. There were people who lived next to the Prophets, Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, etc.(pbut), and they still chose to go astray. Every individual from a human perspective is given freedom of choice, but ultimately Allah knows what desicion we are going to make.
That's why it was so impressive to me (back when I was living in that ignorant mindstate) to meet a young Muslim at work, who came from West Africa to America all by himself at age 23, without any family influence, and inspite of the environment around him and all the oppurtunities to go astray in this country; he was still righteously maintaining his Islam everyday. It had a profound effect on me, and penetrated so deep into my own little world that I found myself changed and liberated from frustrating grasps of phychological and spiritual bondage that had previously been afflicting me.
This life is a testing ground, we will be tested regardless of where we are born. Allah did not create Earth as a paradise, this is not the place for trying live as long as we can and fullfill all of our desires; rather, we have a very short period in this life to worship Allah and achieve a righteous state of being (submission).
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That's one thing about most major religions I don't like: they don't teach tolerance towards other people. This goes for Muslims and Christians. Until Christians and Muslims can understand that they can't change eachother's minds (willingly or forcefully) then things will never change.
the qu'ran teaches tolerance.
Of course it does, so does almost any other religon. The problem is that it is never fully practiced. People say that their religon is one of tolerance, and it is easy to provide evidence/proof of that. But then to got religious people on all ends killing, destroying, etc for their religon/beliefs. Is taking over a forgien counrty tolerance? Is killing that 7 year old kid by hijacking a plane tolerance?
Exactly. It's tolerance to an extent. No religions says anything along the lines of "respect another's beliefs" or "live and let live". That's why everythings fucked up.
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Exactly. It's tolerance to an extent. No religions says anything along the lines of "respect another's beliefs" or "live and let live". That's why everythings fucked up.
actually sikhism says exactly that, and hinduism also strongly suggests that as well.
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Exactly. It's tolerance to an extent. No religions says anything along the lines of "respect another's beliefs" or "live and let live". That's why everythings fucked up.
actually sikhism says exactly that, and hinduism also strongly suggests that as well.
You're right. I only had Christianity and Islam on my mind when I wrote that. My bad.
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Exactly. It's tolerance to an extent. No religions says anything along the lines of "respect another's beliefs" or "live and let live". That's why everythings fucked up.
Qu'ran- Chapter 109: "Disbelievers" (English Translation of whole chapter is as follows)
"Say O disbelievers
I do not worship what you worship
Nor do you worship whom I worship
I shall never worship what you worship
Neither will you worship whom I worship.
You have your path and I have mine."
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but we also have a higher purpose and that purpose is to worship our Creator.
dude how is that a higher purpose, thats like the man that stays home with his mom till he's 30 because he loves her so much, it sounds sweet, but its retarded and a little :camp: if there's a higher purpose then creating successful offspring in your mind, fine, but dont shove your stunted emotional development bullshit down our throats and tell us were evil.
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LM :cow:AO! ^^^
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LM :cow:AO! ^^^
Stop wasting your time.
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lol wtf??
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but we also have a higher purpose and that purpose is to worship our Creator.
dude how is that a higher purpose, thats like the man that stays home with his mom till he's 30 because he loves her so much, it sounds sweet, but its retarded and a little :camp: if there's a higher purpose then creating successful offspring in your mind, fine, but dont shove your stunted emotional development bullshit down our throats and tell us were evil.
the qu'ran states specifically "do not become a hermit". the qu'ran encourages people to have families, enjoy this world; but to also pray regularly, worship regularly and prepare for the afterlife as well.
you suggest an idea of imbalance, solely focusing on worship alone 24/7. the qu'ran focuses on balance; states that the world was created for a purpose and not to be ignored, thus people should engage and enjoy anything that is not specifically prohibited to them. living in accordance with god's order is a form of worship, and showing appreciation for life.
you and the qu'ran agree 100% on this issue.
sura 57:27
Subsequent to them, we sent our messengers. We sent Jesus the son of Mary, and we gave him the Injeel (Gospel), and we placed in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy. But they invented hermitism which we never decreed for them. All we asked them to do was to uphold the commandments approved by GOD. But they did not uphold the message as they should have. Consequently, we gave those who believed among them their recompense, while many of them were wicked.
other translations say "monasticism" as in living as monks: separate, celibate...etc.
sura 5:87
O ye who believe! make not unlawful the good things which God hath made lawful for you, but commit no excess: for God loveth not those given to excess.
sura 7:32-33
Say, "Who prohibited the nice things GOD has created for His creatures, and the good provisions?" Say, "Such provisions are to be enjoyed in this life by those who believe. Moreover, the good provisions will be exclusively theirs on the Day of Resurrection." We thus explain the revelations for people who know.
Say, "My Lord prohibits only evil deeds, be they obvious or hidden, and sins, and unjustifiable aggression, and to set up beside GOD powerless idols, and to say about GOD what you do not know."
the qu'ran promotes the balance you suggest.
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LM :cow:AO! ^^^
Stop wasting your time.
wtf? What are you? Some emotionally stunted child?
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LM :cow:AO! ^^^
Stop wasting your time.
wtf? What are you? Some emotionally stunted child?
Thats you LESBIAN.