West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on July 10, 2006, 01:43:50 PM
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some observations I want to make to get the discussion started...
-First off, how did T.I. sell 500,000 the first week? That's the only example of a hip-hop artist who has done really well this year. His record was wack, his singles were bullshit, he's an average artist at best. The only thing I can think of is that movie he was in helped him sell all those records.
-Downloading, bootlegging have messed up the game. Seems like only women, or mostly 14 year old girls, are the only ones still buying cd's.
-What really stood out to me, was the fact that Busta Rhymes and Young Joc aren't even selling that well. Busta Rhymes had a big-budget, blockbuster, Aftermath, style record, and Busta was already a big name, he had two singles blowing up on the radio, and still he only managed 200,000. That really shocked me. Then you got Young Joc (who I think is horrible personally) has that song "It's Goin Down" that is blowing up everywhere! That single is HUGE, it's a people's favorite, and the hood gave it a thumbs up, and Suge Knight says once the hood gives you the thumbs up everybody will be buying your stuff... but in this case, Joc is selling even less than Busta. wtf?
-Ya'll think Game, Nas, Young Buck, can sell? I think they will struggle to go platinum.
-It's interesting, because in the golden age of hip-hop, which for me is 93-96, artists used to only sell gold and platinum, and Death Row artists could sell multi-platinum. But now, it seems like it's going back to that, where artists are selling gold and platinum, and only a couple big names sell multi-platinum. With the reduced cd prices, and the big budgets for these albums, gold and platinum isn't generating as much profits. It used to be back in 96' when Crucial Conflict sold 500,000 it was a big deal for them, everybody got paid, and the album was a huge success.
....anyway, what ya'll think.
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i'm waiting for a special edition of the busta.. great album.. but i always get stiffed buying shit i like when it comes out.. for a special edition to then come and be there for "johnny come lately" fans...
IMO busta's is a great album
downloading etc is a poor excuse.. quality isnt always there.. and this is the poorest time of year for retail
you're touching on the right kinda shit with the gold+plat thing.. you have to be doing it REALLY big to hit those numbers.. some artists are really only expected to reach 50K units.. but their budget etc reflects that.. rappers talking it big to get 100,000s of budget money end up in debt when they don't sell as well as they can big themselves up.
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In 4,5 years gold will be GREAT.
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Maybe someone needs to put out there 1st single as a different song, something with style, instead of following the formulas that everyone is getting sick off.
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times change.
formulas make albums all "samey"...
in the 60s.. the time of greatest (retail) musical innovation the single was king and LPs were unheard of...
singles would go diamond on their own..
(edit.. just posted this and phillyboy said exactly what i said about formulas!)
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well yeah, bootleggers are hurting sales, thats a given. but i'd like to place a little blame on the industry itself and the artists too. if we were shown better product, we might be inclined to shell out 15-20 bucks. but right now, an hour and twenty minutes of club rhymes over a techno pop synth isnt gonna convince anyone besides dj's and radio companies that the album is worth copping. that i put on the artist, fuck you niggas for killing hip hop and still demanding our money. Then there's the business of selling music. when it used to be a major industry, corporations decided they could take less chances and still make money if they had A&R firms find artists who would bring in the most dollars, regardless of lyrical talent. this started the decline because if a rapper wanted to make money, he'd have to kiss the A&R firms ass just to get a shot a record deal, then whatever A list producer was in the house, the A&R guy in the house, and the guy from the label are all standing over dude in the studio like, lets make dough. sooner or later there is no art, just manufactured noise that will get drunk ppl who have no artistic sense at all dancing in a bar. anyways, i'm rambling cuz i have a lot of hate for major media, but yeah, case in point. if you want to sell big, which is what all poor black niggas want, you have to sacrifice artistic control which in turn alienates you from real fans, which in turn means declining sales. is there an end in sight to this? i dont know. i for one will continue to bootleg the shit out of every new album i want until they start either PUTTING OUT GOOD ALBUMS, or LOWERING THE PRICE TO BELOW 10 DOLLARS. simple as that.
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10 dollars..lol.. its over double that in the UK/europe.. now wonder why sales are down?
10 years ago i would walk to back to work with my buddy and we'd have a CD each nearly EVERY DAY!
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i'm waiting for a special edition of the busta.. great album.. but i always get stiffed buying shit i like when it comes out.. for a special edition to then come and be there for "johnny come lately" fans...
IMO busta's is a great album
downloading etc is a poor excuse.. quality isnt always there.. and this is the poorest time of year for retail
... but yet you haven't bought busta's great album. NOT a poor excuse, a dead-on excuse. Downloading has probably halfed hiphop record sales. JUST MY OPINION, I could be wrong although it's never... EVER happened before.
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yup.. i will buy it when theres a special edition.. or if it doesnt come.. i'll get it cheaper... i win both ways :D
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i only buy old cds before 2000 like outkast, nas, snoop , nwa, mobb deep etc when i see some, only new albums i bought last year are trauma and in the midnite hour
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Maybe someone needs to put out there 1st single as a different song, something with style, instead of following the formulas that everyone is getting sick off.
In the end it is all about creativity. There is too much formulaic rap out there that causes people to lose intrest eventually. Busta put out a good first single that was different and created a buzz. Interscope fucked up by delyaing his album, and a terrible second single.
-First off, how did T.I. sell 500,000 the first week? That's the only example of a hip-hop artist who has done really well this year. His record was wack, his singles were bullshit, he's an average artist at best. The only thing I can think of is that movie he was in helped him sell all those records.
I have to disagree. T.I. has slowed down since Trap Muzik, but he is still a good rapper. As far as him selling 500K his firsy week he had buzz going on with no competetion for airplay for his first single, a good single at that, and a new movie coming out. Plus he's from the South so he's almost garunteed good airplay/sales.
-Downloading, bootlegging have messed up the game. Seems like only women, or mostly 14 year old girls, are the only ones still buying cd's.
That is part of it, but that can't be a the factor, becuase it is still entirely possible to sell a lot. If bootleggins stopped though, it would make selling a lot easier.
-Ya'll think Game, Nas, Young Buck, can sell? I think they will struggle to go platinum.
Only groupies think they have no problem in selling. In reality, your right, they will struggle. But I think each one of them have a good chance of selling well.
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some observations I want to make to get the discussion started...
-First off, how did T.I. sell 500,000 the first week? That's the only example of a hip-hop artist who has done really well this year. His record was wack, his singles were bullshit, he's an average artist at best. The only thing I can think of is that movie he was in helped him sell all those records.
TI's first single "What you Know" was fuckin HUGE man.....were you hiding under a rock or something? that track was off the hook! TI has a huge fan base aswell, with all of the south behind him, he also is respected by the east, west and north....
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I'm glad record sales are down. Hopefully this will result in better quality music because it proves that "formulas" won't always work but quality music will always go gold ie. Common - Be.
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times change, i think hiphop is over its top.
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yup.. i will buy it when theres a special edition.. or if it doesnt come.. i'll get it cheaper... i win both ways :D
What I'm saying is, though, that you have the benefit of hearing the album, because of downloading, without paying. If you weren't able to download it, you likely would have bought it hearing the buzz about how dope it is... so whether it's right or wrong, or you'll buy eventually, or whatever... downloading in this instance clearly hurt album sales. Now maybe for decades album sales were inflated and they NEVER should have sold what they were in the first place, and maybe NOW album sales are at an equilibrium and where they should be (where only big fans of certain artists buy their albums)... but anyway you look at it, downloading clearly hurts artists sales numbers, and the industry is built so as to give most artists almost no money unless they sell huge, overinflated amounts (which is almost impossible with downloading).
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only new albums i bought last year are trauma and in the midnite hour
And I thank you for it, it gives me the money to afford this internet connection. True fans like you are what make this music thing possible, thank you again.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway. Not sure what it's like in the major US record stores but all the HMVs (the big music chain here) in Toronto used to have quality guarantees. If you didn't like the album you could return it for a full refund (I abused the shit out of that when I got a burner before they were popular). Since the burners became common HMV has retracted that policy. The point is you could return the album if you didn't like it, just like most people probably delete it after they download it, if it sucks.
Back in the early to mid 90s when a new album came out only a few people in the projects by my house would actually buy an album. They would then pass the tape around and everyone would end up dubbing. We didn't have great sound systems and the tape was inferior sound anyway so the difference in quality wasn't all that noticeable. Even with out downloading it would just get passed around and burned as a CD. Sometimes 5 or 6 of us would pitch in and buy the album then split it. Music sharing is nothing new. In fact when the tape was introduce the industry worried sales would plummet, well thanks to Reagan and the Yuppies sales hit an all time high in mid to late 80s when this cassette was supposed to hurt sales. They did the same shit with the CD burner and artists still broke records like Shania did with Come on Over for a female solo act and 36 million records sold or Alanis just a couple years before that did with 34 million worldwide. Mariah, Whitney, Boyz 2 Men all had huge selling albums. Snoop went like 6 platinum off mainly tapes, and I know that album was dubbed to death and burned to death. If the album is good and has more than just the singles to carry it people will buy it.
Radiohead's Kid A was one of the highest downloaded albums on Napster a month before it came out. The record company almost pulled it because they thought it would fail miserably. Radiohead was at best a mildly successful and never broke the top 20 on the charts (OK Computer went 2x platinum but it had taken years to get there). Kid A was released and debuted at #1 with no big MTV or radio play but it had all the downloader (over 1 million downloads) hyped up because most loved the album. Most bought and it went platinum in a few short months. If it went Gold (even before the Napster ordeal) it would have been considered a big success. Platinum was higher than any could imagine, and they owe it all to downloading.
The current Hip Hop sucks, and is boring, and the US economy is down. That's why the sales suck. If the economy was booming right away you'd see an increase and if the music was fresh you'd see and even bigger increase. Most of the people that download and don't buy probably wouldn't buy anyway. They'd find someone to borrow the album from and if they loved it they'd probably buy it and if they hated it they wouldn't. Simple as that. These cry baby artists need to shut their mouths and make good music.
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I still buy music, not EVERYTHING, but I still buy a lot of cd's
I probably bought like 20 cd's so far this year, some new releases too
but still I download a ton of shit.... but like J Bananas said, if they would fill up an album with all bangers, I'd spend the money
I just select wisely, buy the cd's I know I want
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A couple of months ago I realized how much money I spent on music I never even really paid attention to. I've sold a bunch of albums because they were only collecting dust. Right now I'm at a point that I only buy an album if it doesn't have 7 tracks that could have been left off, if you know what I mean. If it fits in my collection that's fine too.
If Busta's album wouldn't have tracks like the ones with Will.I.Am and Missy Elliot, I would have bought it. It has 6-7 tracks that I don't like and a couple of joints that I fucking love, but those 6-7 tracks are too much! Fuck buying an album if that means I have to support bullshit like I Love My Bitch.
The last new album I bought was either Mack 10's latest album or Warren G's latest album and the next new album I'm gonna buy is Rhymefest's. Why? Because they're good albums. Mack 10's album has one song I don't like, Warren G's 2 songs and Rhymefest's 0.
Bottom line:
These cry baby artists need to shut their mouths and make good music.
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Nelly, Eminem, Jay-Z and plenty of other artist have all seen their sales stay the same during the downloading era. The reason album sales are down is because the industry has taken Hip-Hop, and gutted it for the commercial appeal. People are eventually going to get sick of it, which I think is happening, and they are going to stop buying. Busta is just a sad side effect. I have yet to buy the album myself, though I will very soon. For me, it's money. Need more money.
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Nelly, Eminem, Jay-Z and plenty of other artist have all seen their sales stay the same during the downloading era. The reason album sales are down is because the industry has taken Hip-Hop, and gutted it for the commercial appeal. People are eventually going to get sick of it, which I think is happening, and they are going to stop buying. Busta is just a sad side effect. I have yet to buy the album myself, though I will very soon. For me, it's money. Need more money.
Hip Hop was going to die out as the number 1 genre of popular music in America no matter how good it was quality wise. The new generation never wants to listen to the same stuff the the old one did. The children of hair metal became the teens of Grunge, and the children of Grunge became the teens of boy/girl band bubble gum. N Synch is clearly inferior to Pearl Jam musically but the teen girls that bought "Ten" had little sisters that grew up to buy "No Strings Attached".
I can't wait for Hip Hop to fall from the main stream. It'll mean that industry snakes will leave it alone and rappers won't be pressured to fit the mold, and they'll start making creative music again, hopefully.
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Nelly, Eminem, Jay-Z and plenty of other artist have all seen their sales stay the same during the downloading era. The reason album sales are down is because the industry has taken Hip-Hop, and gutted it for the commercial appeal. People are eventually going to get sick of it, which I think is happening, and they are going to stop buying. Busta is just a sad side effect. I have yet to buy the album myself, though I will very soon. For me, it's money. Need more money.
Hip Hop was going to die out as the number 1 genre of popular music in America no matter how good it was quality wise. The new generation never wants to listen to the same stuff the the old one did. The children of hair metal became the teens of Grunge, and the children of Grunge became the teens of boy/girl band bubble gum. N Synch is clearly inferior to Pearl Jam musically but the teen girls that bought "Ten" had little sisters that grew up to buy "No Strings Attached".
I can't wait for Hip Hop to fall from the main stream. It'll mean that industry snakes will leave it alone and rappers won't be pressured to fit the mold, and they'll start making creative music again, hopefully.
actually, that's a very bad thing. Hip-Hop needs balence, even KRS admits that. There needs to be the party aspect of it, and there needs to be the commercial side of it. What was Run DMC, what was Sugar Hill Gang, Kurtis Blow, sure there was Melle Mel, but Caz was the one that wrote Rappers Delight talking about Superman and shit. Hip-Hop was commerical in the early 90's, and it was just as creative. What you want is Hip-Hop to become underground, that's not good, as every single Hip-Hop founder will tell you they want to see Hip-Hop in the mainstream. The difference is we need labels that are independent once again. The mergers on the late 90's hurt everything, but if artist can sell using pure Hip-Hop, then that's better. Columbia left Nas alone after Stillmatic, because they knew he'd sell no matter what. Interscope let Jada have his Kiss of Death because they knew political controversy will see during an election year. The only problem is, not many artist are willing to take a chance. Hip-Hop needs balence, ask any old school Hip-Hop founder.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I? I can just download it. I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years. I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off. I'll download plenty, though.
Now. I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now. Can you STILL deny that it's a problem? I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do. If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are.
Here, how many ways can I say this. Lets see.
1. I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4. Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5. I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it". I was really close that time, too.
Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales". come on man. Man up. Take responsibility. Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against.
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I think lots of you guys are on point. To me, the bottom line is that for numerous reasons the creativity, artistry, and individualism are much more difficult to find, ESPECIALLY in the mainstream. The majority of shit they pass off as music today seems far too contrived and manufactured.
People thinking that the only way to sell a record is to hype and promote the shit out of it. They cram that bullshit down your throat with no alternative. The media is an oligopoly simple and plain. Assholes in suit and ties have gone overboard making music into an assembly line product, with the same fucking formula everytime.
I'd estimate I have prolly around 600 CD's. There were times in my life that as soon as I got paid, the first thing I did was go pick up a few cd's. I did that pretty much every week for years - and it was mostly new shit coming out. I've bought very few CD's on their release date in the last couple of years. I'm now mostly going and copping albums from way back that I never had initally bought.
The positive thing is this though: It's pretty much common knowledge that the recording industry as a whole has really taken some significant hits. Lables are folding, prices are dropping, and people are losing their jobs. Now normally this wouldn't be a good thing, but in this case, if things don't change the game will go down the drain. This is good because it shows that the general public isn't as ignorant as these major labels think they are. Hopefully more artists will go the independant route and release the music that they want, and not have to do bullshit that some exec is telling them to do. It's like they say, going indie and pushing 100,000 is like going platinum on a major. So let them keep putting out bullshit. It's really starting to catch up with them, and if they don't switch it up it's gonna end up fucking them.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I? I can just download it. I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years. I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off. I'll download plenty, though.
Now. I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now. Can you STILL deny that it's a problem? I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do. If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are.
Here, how many ways can I say this. Lets see.
1. I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4. Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5. I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it". I was really close that time, too.
Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales". come on man. Man up. Take responsibility. Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against.
I don't think there's any debate that downloading can and does impact album sales. It impacts both positively and negatively. The positive aspects, at least for me, is that I don't have to gamble on albums that i'm on the fence on. I've been burned enough times over the years with impulse buys / or iffy albums that turned out to be a waste of money. I think downloading will indirectly keep everyone honest. Obviously, there are people that will only download, and never buy another album because they don't have to.
But I don't think it's the main driver in declining sales. You yourself said you'd buy Detox...Why? Why would you waste your money on Detox, when you can just download it? You're gonna buy it because you're damn near assured it's gonna be a dope ass cd. EVENTHOUGH you can get it for free, you'll drop your hard earned cash. That factor right there should show you that quality is the biggest driver in your decision to not purchase, not the ability to get it for free.
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Hip-hop lost it's edge, it's too safe now.
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i blame leaking albums out, because if we didnt hear it, the only way we would know if the cd was trash or not was to pick it up yourself, or borrow it from some one who picked it up, either way more than 30k people are buying it and 2 mil are dling it.
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Nelly, Eminem, Jay-Z and plenty of other artist have all seen their sales stay the same during the downloading era. The reason album sales are down is because the industry has taken Hip-Hop, and gutted it for the commercial appeal. People are eventually going to get sick of it, which I think is happening, and they are going to stop buying. Busta is just a sad side effect. I have yet to buy the album myself, though I will very soon. For me, it's money. Need more money.
Hip Hop was going to die out as the number 1 genre of popular music in America no matter how good it was quality wise. The new generation never wants to listen to the same stuff the the old one did. The children of hair metal became the teens of Grunge, and the children of Grunge became the teens of boy/girl band bubble gum. N Synch is clearly inferior to Pearl Jam musically but the teen girls that bought "Ten" had little sisters that grew up to buy "No Strings Attached".
I can't wait for Hip Hop to fall from the main stream. It'll mean that industry snakes will leave it alone and rappers won't be pressured to fit the mold, and they'll start making creative music again, hopefully.
actually, that's a very bad thing. Hip-Hop needs balence, even KRS admits that. There needs to be the party aspect of it, and there needs to be the commercial side of it. What was Run DMC, what was Sugar Hill Gang, Kurtis Blow, sure there was Melle Mel, but Caz was the one that wrote Rappers Delight talking about Superman and shit. Hip-Hop was commerical in the early 90's, and it was just as creative. What you want is Hip-Hop to become underground, that's not good, as every single Hip-Hop founder will tell you they want to see Hip-Hop in the mainstream. The difference is we need labels that are independent once again. The mergers on the late 90's hurt everything, but if artist can sell using pure Hip-Hop, then that's better. Columbia left Nas alone after Stillmatic, because they knew he'd sell no matter what. Interscope let Jada have his Kiss of Death because they knew political controversy will see during an election year. The only problem is, not many artist are willing to take a chance. Hip-Hop needs balence, ask any old school Hip-Hop founder.
I said it will fall from being the number 1 pop genre and hten the execs will lay off off and focus on the new form that arises. I never said it should all be underground, I said hopefully it would become creative. Rapper's Delight was new, fresh; creative. The shit today is just the same old shit that's just being rehashed. There is nthing wrong with a party song. The problem is that the genre is flooded with the same type of party songs released because execs want to jump on the cash cow before it goes away. When Hip Hop dies in the mainstream and falls back to being just another genre with no executives pushing a certain style of it then the kids on streets who all aspire to be rappers now will not be forced to make a certain style and that freedom will result in better music, and different music. Diferent music that may very well lead to another stay at the top of the pop scene, and then it'll have to happen all over again.
And Trauma, you gave me 2 examples. You and Seer. I gave you reasearched information. Can you honestly say you would buy every album you download, or even most? (Of course you will just for arguments sake). Well I know that I have bought many albums I never would have bought because I heard them after I downloaded them and I liked them a lot. While you can say you like many others don't buy because you download in 2006. I could find you just as many who wouldn't buy but dub in 1996. I could also find you many people that bought an album because they loved it so much after playing it to death upon downloading. If people want the album they will buy it. At the height of the downloading "crisis" Eminem went 9 platinum twice in a row, 'N Sync went diamond twice in a row. Britney went 10 and 14 platinum in consecutive albums. Shaniah went diamoind on her follow up to her previous diamond album. Usher just went 9 platinum. And Outkast had their highest seller to date. I guess you and Seer didn't seem to hurt those sales.
If album prices were to drop to the $5 it cost in the 80s to buy then you'd see huge increases in sales. Thanks to Reagan's Administration while the minmum wage was $2 lower than it is now if you adujust for inflation it was actually a dollar higher. The $3.25 you were making in '83 as a miminum wage would be equivolent to about $6 today, so two hours of work could buy you an album and you'd have enough left over to buy a small lunch. Today you'd have to work 3 hours and no lunch, and that's just for miminum wage employees. If albums today were 7.99 the sales would drastically increase. Download or no download.
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I agree with Shallow's reason first and foremost...whether or not we want to accept it, hip-hop is indeed losing SOME of its grasp upon the pop audience. And that, I'm afraid, was pretty much inevitable. Late last year, I even spoke of this possibility. Think about it...the first year in which it was reported that hip-hop outsold all other genres (rock, country, etc.) was 1998 (which was, of course, the year when DMX and Jay-Z became superstars on the East while Master P was building his empire down South). That means it's been 8 years already. No genre remains totally dominant for more than a decade...hair metal and dance-pop dominated the 80s', the 90s' was dominated by the obsession with all things "alternative" (grunge like Nirvana, trad rock like DMB and Hootie & the Blowfish, etc.), and now the 1st decade of the 21st century has been dominated by hip-hop. Surely, that was all due to change at some point?
You only need to look at the Billboard charts now, and (for those of you in college and high school) what your friends are listening to while you're still bumping your old Warren G or DPG albums. What are kids listening to besides hip-hop these days? Well, in the past 2 years or so, we've seen an obsession with artists that draw heavily from pop influences yet manage to convince everyone they're "indie", like Death Cab For Cutie and The Shins. Emo-punk seems to have replaced grunge as the new "angry white teen music". Reggaeton has gained a small but steadily growing following, even amongst hip-hop artists. With that kind of competition, what did y'all THINK was going to happen?
As far as downloading goes, I think it's played a large part, for sure. It's pretty obvious that most people download albums instead of buying them, and I'm among them. On the other hand, I have trouble thinking that it's played as big a part as the RIAA claims it has. I used to only buy about 3-4 albums a year (on CD) in the 90s before file-sharing started, and that's about the same number I buy today...in fact, downloading means I generally tend to be exposed to more stuff that I used to ignore. I pretty much slept on the East Coast during the mid-90s (when Nas, Mobb Deep, and the Wu were coming out...I did sorta like Biggie, tho) because I didn't think I liked the East back then, but in comparison, I don't like the South much today, yet I'm still far more aware of who's hot in the South and I've heard lots of their shit because of dling. I never bought Young Jeezy's album, but I did listen to it, and if dling didn't exist, I would have simply ignored it altogether. Thinking that sales of hip-hop records will increase if dling were eliminated is most def not true.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I? I can just download it. I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years. I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off. I'll download plenty, though.
Now. I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now. Can you STILL deny that it's a problem? I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do. If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are.
Here, how many ways can I say this. Lets see.
1. I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4. Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5. I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it". I was really close that time, too.
Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales". come on man. Man up. Take responsibility. Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against.
EXACTLY I don't see how anyone can NOT list downloading as the main reason album sales are suffering. I still buy a few CD's here and there, but nowhere near what I used to. And everybody I know at work and around the neighborhood.....shit, maybe about 3 of those muthafuckas outta 20+ have bought a CD in the last 5 years. They bought CD's before, but now they download EVERYTHING. And so do their friends. So come on, let's not be naive here ::)
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No No, just because you do it, i do it, overseer does it, everybody I know does it, everybody you know does it... doesn't mean it's hurting.
No, it's helping. Somehow.
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we're buying the stuff they dont care about, not what they're pushing down our throats (err ears?)..
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I? I can just download it. I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years. I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off. I'll download plenty, though.
Now. I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now. Can you STILL deny that it's a problem? I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do. If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are.
Here, how many ways can I say this. Lets see.
1. I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4. Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5. I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it". I was really close that time, too.
Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales". come on man. Man up. Take responsibility. Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against.
EXACTLY I don't see how anyone can NOT list downloading as the main reason album sales are suffering. I still buy a few CD's here and there, but nowhere near what I used to. And everybody I know at work and around the neighborhood.....shit, maybe about 3 of those muthafuckas outta 20+ have bought a CD in the last 5 years. They bought CD's before, but now they download EVERYTHING. And so do their friends. So come on, let's not be naive here ::)
So then explain how Britney can sell 14 million copies and Eminem can sell 9 million twice in a row, if everyone is downloading.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I? I can just download it. I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years. I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off. I'll download plenty, though.
Now. I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now. Can you STILL deny that it's a problem? I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do. If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are.
Here, how many ways can I say this. Lets see.
1. I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4. Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5. I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it". I was really close that time, too.
Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales". come on man. Man up. Take responsibility. Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against.
EXACTLY I don't see how anyone can NOT list downloading as the main reason album sales are suffering. I still buy a few CD's here and there, but nowhere near what I used to. And everybody I know at work and around the neighborhood.....shit, maybe about 3 of those muthafuckas outta 20+ have bought a CD in the last 5 years. They bought CD's before, but now they download EVERYTHING. And so do their friends. So come on, let's not be naive here ::)
So then explain how Britney can sell 14 million copies and Eminem can sell 9 million twice in a row, if everyone is downloading.
I completely understand how wrong I was now.....I'm embarrassed that I thought downloading affects album sales. Just because everyone I know downloads and doesn't buy the CD, doesn't mean the rest of the world does that. I'm 100% sure that everyone else who downloads an album later goes on to buy it.
If it wasn't for downloading, I bet Brittany would have sold 5 mil and Em barely 1 mil. I'm sure all the artists support downloading, too. I just can't figure out why they speak against it so much since it helps them. But then again, I guess the artists aren't too bright because if people stopped downloading their albums for free, their sales would plummet and they would be broke.
It's silly when you really think about it----I mean how can downloading decrease sales.....downloading could only INCREASE sales. How could it do anything else?
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pac said it well. Who buys cd? not the drug-dealing street-thugs, girls/hoes/bitches buys cd, looking sexy sells, sex appeal sells, showing your body of sells. who sells the most these days? 50? yup..em? yup..both sex icons =P
body > lyrics, thats why you really should stop paying so much attention to record sales and just see what the guy spits
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I? I can just download it. I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years. I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off. I'll download plenty, though.
Now. I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now. Can you STILL deny that it's a problem? I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do. If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are.
Here, how many ways can I say this. Lets see.
1. I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4. Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5. I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it". I was really close that time, too.
Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales". come on man. Man up. Take responsibility. Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against.
EXACTLY I don't see how anyone can NOT list downloading as the main reason album sales are suffering. I still buy a few CD's here and there, but nowhere near what I used to. And everybody I know at work and around the neighborhood.....shit, maybe about 3 of those muthafuckas outta 20+ have bought a CD in the last 5 years. They bought CD's before, but now they download EVERYTHING. And so do their friends. So come on, let's not be naive here ::)
So then explain how Britney can sell 14 million copies and Eminem can sell 9 million twice in a row, if everyone is downloading.
I completely understand how wrong I was now.....I'm embarrassed that I thought downloading affects album sales. Just because everyone I know downloads and doesn't buy the CD, doesn't mean the rest of the world does that. I'm 100% sure that everyone else who downloads an album later goes on to buy it.
If it wasn't for downloading, I bet Brittany would have sold 5 mil and Em barely 1 mil. I'm sure all the artists support downloading, too. I just can't figure out why they speak against it so much since it helps them. But then again, I guess the artists aren't too bright because if people stopped downloading their albums for free, their sales would plummet and they would be broke.
It's silly when you really think about it----I mean how can downloading decrease sales.....downloading could only INCREASE sales. How could it do anything else?
Where did I say the downloading helps these big artists sell more records. I said it doesn't hurt all that much and it's more pricing and lack of quality that does that but with hte right material and promotion you can still sell huge. I used mid level not too popular artists like Radiohead in 2000 as examples of downloading helping. Sure Em would have sold more if no one downloaded, but I feel with the addition of dubbing and burning, and the number of downloaders that wouldn't buy anyway, and those convinced to buy after downloading because of the quality that it wouldn't have meant all that much more sales. Maybe instead of 9 he would have sold 10 million. Either way he's rich. (This doesn't mean every artist would sell a million more. It's ratio based). The point with Spears was that if so many people downloaded then Britney never would have sold 14 million. More than like 99% of big name artists artists that sold well before downloading started.
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^^ I think the low record sales are fixed, in order to depict software pirates as the villains and bootlegging as an urgent problem, in order to give the Ri aa and other organisations an excuse to become more ruthless and ruthless.
(this is only directed to Shallow, the ones who religiously follow the soccer threads know why Im saying it)
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^^ I think the low record sales are fixed, in order to depict software pirates as the villains and bootlegging as an urgent problem, in order to give the Ri aa and other organisations an excuse to become more ruthless and ruthless.
(this is only directed to Shallow, the ones who religiously follow the soccer threads know why Im saying it)
I'd agree except that the low sales don't exist. They are just implied by the powers to make people think that. Record sales are relative to the current economy. Thanks for exposing the conspriracy. ;)
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The secret to T.I's success is the females. Not that he's making soft songs, but the fact that every single female I know thinks he's the finest lil nigga ever basically says it all. Anyone ever been to a T.I show or after parties? You'll know what I'm talking about. Nelly is in the same category, females loved him ever since Country Grammar and that wasn't a song towards females, but he had the looks, that package that you need to get marketed at that level. We don't understand this because obviously not too many of us is homosexual on here. But that's just the way it is. Plus a hot single doesn't hurt. And if you really wanted to know, Hip Hop is bigger than ever now, including sales. There's just so much diversity that you can't see why artists are selling less unless you analyze it to a higher degree. Mcdonald's and Burger King used to sell the most burgers before all these other fast food places popped up in the 90's.
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well yeah, bootleggers are hurting sales, thats a given. but i'd like to place a little blame on the industry itself and the artists too. if we were shown better product, we might be inclined to shell out 15-20 bucks. but right now, an hour and twenty minutes of club rhymes over a techno pop synth isnt gonna convince anyone besides dj's and radio companies that the album is worth copping. that i put on the artist, fuck you niggas for killing hip hop and still demanding our money. Then there's the business of selling music. when it used to be a major industry, corporations decided they could take less chances and still make money if they had A&R firms find artists who would bring in the most dollars, regardless of lyrical talent. this started the decline because if a rapper wanted to make money, he'd have to kiss the A&R firms ass just to get a shot a record deal, then whatever A list producer was in the house, the A&R guy in the house, and the guy from the label are all standing over dude in the studio like, lets make dough. sooner or later there is no art, just manufactured noise that will get drunk ppl who have no artistic sense at all dancing in a bar. anyways, i'm rambling cuz i have a lot of hate for major media, but yeah, case in point. if you want to sell big, which is what all poor black niggas want, you have to sacrifice artistic control which in turn alienates you from real fans, which in turn means declining sales. is there an end in sight to this? i dont know. i for one will continue to bootleg the shit out of every new album i want until they start either PUTTING OUT GOOD ALBUMS, or LOWERING THE PRICE TO BELOW 10 DOLLARS. simple as that.
fuck industrial bitches that tryna control mcs creativity...if they just let them be...it's all good then...better music (hopefully) and then more buying.
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^ bullshit. Name 1 artist who went 'independent' and then got BETTER or doper on the mic. Now, go ahead and name the 10 in your head that you can think of that turned to SHIT as soon as they got an independent deal because they didn't have to answer to anybody and could release whatever wack ass shit they wanted to.
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^ bullshit. Name 1 artist who went 'independent' and then got BETTER or doper on the mic. Now, go ahead and name the 10 in your head that you can think of that turned to SHIT as soon as they got an independent deal because they didn't have to answer to anybody and could release whatever wack ass shit they wanted to.
I personally don't think any current artist will shine after hip hop laves the mass mainstream but it will create a new movement on the streets, simply because it'll be a new generation and there will be no drive to create what is current right now. The imagine will fall away and a new image will be created. Like how Nu Metal came out a few years after hair metal died. Very different forms of metal but metal none the less. There will be a new hip hop on the streets. I don't know what it'll sound like but it will happen eventually.
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i'll just sum up the reason why records arn't selling in 2 little stanzas
1. broadband internet, album in 10 minutes or less or your pizza is free
2. think about it, when was the last time a REAL bonafied classic album has hit the streets? think about it. You don't buy clothes you don't like or shitty tv's and dvd players, why pay 20 bucks for 2 hots songs and some pictures when you can get all that for free?
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i'm waiting for a special edition of the busta.. great album.. but i always get stiffed buying shit i like when it comes out.. for a special edition to then come and be there for "johnny come lately" fans...
IMO busta's is a great album
downloading etc is a poor excuse.. quality isnt always there.. and this is the poorest time of year for retail
... but yet you haven't bought busta's great album. NOT a poor excuse, a dead-on excuse. Downloading has probably halfed hiphop record sales. JUST MY OPINION, I could be wrong although it's never... EVER happened before.
Downloading can be a good thing...i rather hear the whole shit before buying...ya know what i'm saying?
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I? I can just download it. I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years. I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off. I'll download plenty, though.
Now. I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now. Can you STILL deny that it's a problem? I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do. If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are.
Here, how many ways can I say this. Lets see.
1. I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4. Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5. I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it". I was really close that time, too.
Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales". come on man. Man up. Take responsibility. Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against.
Great response. Props.
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Hip-hop lost it's edge, it's too safe now.
No doubt. Your exactly right. It's bubble-gum music now. The only time they supposedly push the envelop is when it comes to sexual content (like Nelly's "Tip Drill" video or somethin like that), the problem is the video hoe doesn't come with the cd, so to me all that sexual content is useless, and it's just something artists do to stay relevant when they lose their creativity (see LL Cool J).
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^ bullshit. Name 1 artist who went 'independent' and then got BETTER or doper on the mic. Now, go ahead and name the 10 in your head that you can think of that turned to SHIT as soon as they got an independent deal because they didn't have to answer to anybody and could release whatever wack ass shit they wanted to.
Good point, because you would think that going independant would make the artists music better, because he would have creative control; although I can't think of any example off the top of my head where an artist was iller on an independant than he was on a major label... however I can think of many examples of artists who whose quality drastically deteriorated when they went independant...
Dead Prez
Talib Kweli
Public Enemy
Daz Dillinger
just to name a few.
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i'm waiting for a special edition of the busta.. great album.. but i always get stiffed buying shit i like when it comes out.. for a special edition to then come and be there for "johnny come lately" fans...
IMO busta's is a great album
downloading etc is a poor excuse.. quality isnt always there.. and this is the poorest time of year for retail
... but yet you haven't bought busta's great album. NOT a poor excuse, a dead-on excuse. Downloading has probably halfed hiphop record sales. JUST MY OPINION, I could be wrong although it's never... EVER happened before.
Downloading can be a good thing...i rather hear the whole shit before buying...ya know what i'm saying?
Exxxxxxactly. That's the whole point. You'd rather download it than pay for it. So sales are down.
ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, FOLKS. The albums don't sale as much because you can get them free. DUH who the fuck can't figure that out????
you people actually are suggesting, that If I open up a pizza store, and let people come in and eat as much pizza as they want for free, but don't let them use the plates, they have to stand up to eat... that I'm going to get MORE business because my pizza tastes good? I tell them it's illegal, but the cops won't do anything about it, and I won't call the cops on them. You think they're going to say "O.K., well I'll buy the pizza then". No, i'm just going to get a bunch of people standing up in my restauraunt, eating all the pizza they want, and leaving without paying. Everyonce in a while, I'll get some rich people coming in who want to sit down and they'll pay for it.
Just because the cd doesn't have the book and isn't a stamped cd doesn't mean that people aren't cool with it. A lot of people don't give a shit.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dubbing was free too, and so was recording off the radio. Why don't you go back and find some articles on the audio cassette and it's recorder and see how scared the industry was about that detroying sales of music. The result was millions of people dubbing albums from friends and and recording hit singles right off the radio. It also during the time of the largest sales boom in the history of music because the prices were low, the income was high and the disposable cash was ready to be wasted.
Like I said, if the prices todat dropped and the economy turned around hte sales would rise. Of course there will be people that won't buy and just download just like there were people that didn't buy and just recorded, but there will also be people that buy after downloading due to quality of music and exposure to it, like what happened with Radiohead.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dubbing was free too, and so was recording off the radio. Why don't you go back and find some articles on the audio cassette and it's recorder and see how scared the industry was about that detroying sales of music. The result was millions of people dubbing albums from friends and and recording hit singles right off the radio. It also during the time of the largest sales boom in the history of music because the prices were low, the income was high and the disposable cash was ready to be wasted.
Like I said, if the prices todat dropped and the economy turned around hte sales would rise. Of course there will be people that won't buy and just download just like there were people that didn't buy and just recorded, but there will also be people that buy after downloading due to quality of music and exposure to it, like what happened with Radiohead.
I used to dub stuff off the radio all the time back in the day, first of all, it's a tape not a cd, and second of all, it's usually just a single. I also borrowed from friends, and dubbed whole albums, but the big difference there was nobody heard the album until it was released, now there is no such thing as big release date events anymore because everybody has the album weeks and months before it's released.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dubbing was free too, and so was recording off the radio. Why don't you go back and find some articles on the audio cassette and it's recorder and see how scared the industry was about that detroying sales of music. The result was millions of people dubbing albums from friends and and recording hit singles right off the radio. It also during the time of the largest sales boom in the history of music because the prices were low, the income was high and the disposable cash was ready to be wasted.
Like I said, if the prices todat dropped and the economy turned around hte sales would rise. Of course there will be people that won't buy and just download just like there were people that didn't buy and just recorded, but there will also be people that buy after downloading due to quality of music and exposure to it, like what happened with Radiohead.
You're an idiot. To copy an album before, you had to have special equipment, you had to borrow somebody's copy, the tape wasn't long enough to copy the whole album, the sound was degraded with each generation, etc., etc. Surely you know this. Surely you realized before you even came at me with your BULLSHIT argument that I would tear it into a million fucking pieces. why would you even step to me with such weak, pathetic drivel knowing damn good and well I would destroy everything that came out of your cunt mouth?
To get a free cd before it's released... you have to click a fucking button. CLICK A FUCKING BUTTON. CLICK. A. Fucking. BUTTON. It couldn't BE EASIER! The only way it could be easier, is if the record company let you pick it up for free at the store, and that wouldn't even be easier because you'd have to drive there, then open that shitty plastic wrap they put on it. If I want to hear the new Busta cd, all I have to do is click the left button on my mouse. CLICK THE LEFT BUTTON ON MY MOUSE.
I have thorougly consumed your little petty argument. Bow down to a power greater than you.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dubbing was free too, and so was recording off the radio. Why don't you go back and find some articles on the audio cassette and it's recorder and see how scared the industry was about that detroying sales of music. The result was millions of people dubbing albums from friends and and recording hit singles right off the radio. It also during the time of the largest sales boom in the history of music because the prices were low, the income was high and the disposable cash was ready to be wasted.
Like I said, if the prices todat dropped and the economy turned around hte sales would rise. Of course there will be people that won't buy and just download just like there were people that didn't buy and just recorded, but there will also be people that buy after downloading due to quality of music and exposure to it, like what happened with Radiohead.
I used to dub stuff off the radio all the time back in the day, first of all, it's a tape not a cd, and second of all, it's usually just a single. I also borrowed from friends, and dubbed whole albums, but the big difference there was nobody heard the album until it was released, now there is no such thing as big release date events anymore because everybody has the album weeks and months before it's released.
You're dealing with idiots. I mean, you're an idiot too, but when you're right you're right, and you're right about this one.
Here's some more proof: Thriller sold 52 million copies. Nothing's came close since. That's not because Thriller is the greatest album ever, that's because anymore you don't have to BUY anything! I don't! I download all kinds of shit, I used to pay, now I don't.
Here, i'll make it easy again.
1. I used to pay for albums.
2. Now I don't because I can download them.
Do all the little children see where this is leading? See, if you 'sell' something in a store, people use 'money' to buy it. If they don't have to use 'money' to buy it because they get it free, then you don't make any 'money' and 'sales' are down because they don't 'buy' it anymore.
This is so fucking unbelievably simple it blows my mind why people can't figure it out. A fucking monkey could figure this out.
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LMAOOOO Im Dying!!! LOOOOL
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Someone explain to me why downloading helps sales. It doesn't in any way. It only hurts sales, downloading also hurts television ratings, radio ratings, DVD sales, movies sales, it hurts almost all media. If you can dl it for free, why buy it or even watch on TV. And bullshit you download an album, realize its good, then buy it. How does that help anything. You download 100 albums a year and buy maybe 5 of them, as apposed to buying 100 albums. Music is getting worse and worse, movies are getting worse and worse, television is getting worse and worse, and people downloading it all for free is partially to blame.
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I'd imagine that spreading mixtape cuts online for free and having singles online somewhere for streaming would help promotion and arouse interest for an upcpming album, but there's no way downloading full albums helps anybody. There's also the snippet route though - like Ice Cube had that collection of snippets from his album. I dunno about its effect as a whole, but it definately made me want to get the album more.
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To get a free cd before it's released... you have to click a fucking button. CLICK A FUCKING BUTTON. CLICK. A. Fucking. BUTTON. It couldn't BE EASIER! The only way it could be easier, is if the record company let you pick it up for free at the store, and that wouldn't even be easier because you'd have to drive there, then open that shitty plastic wrap they put on it. If I want to hear the new Busta cd, all I have to do is click the left button on my mouse. CLICK THE LEFT BUTTON ON MY MOUSE.
I have thorougly consumed your little petty argument. Bow down to a power greater than you.
LMFAO PROPS
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I used to dub stuff off the radio all the time back in the day, first of all, it's a tape not a cd, and second of all, it's usually just a single. I also borrowed from friends, and dubbed whole albums, but the big difference there was nobody heard the album until it was released, now there is no such thing as big release date events anymore because everybody has the album weeks and months before it's released.
Then explain why the last 5 years or so have been the best years for first week in album history. I'm not saying it's because of downloading but every year you have all these #1 debuts from artists that never see that spot again. In '84 the number of #1 albums that year you could count on 1 hand; Thriller by MJ, Footloose the Soundtrack, Sports by Huey Lewis, Born in the USA by Springsteen, and Purple Rain by Prince. No other album reached number 1 that year. Twenty years later in 2004 you had over 25 #1 albums and most were only on for a week or two when they have there big debut and then they fall off.
You're an idiot. To copy an album before, you had to have special equipment, you had to borrow somebody's copy, the tape wasn't long enough to copy the whole album, the sound was degraded with each generation, etc., etc. Surely you know this. Surely you realized before you even came at me with your BULLSHIT argument that I would tear it into a million fucking pieces. why would you even step to me with such weak, pathetic drivel knowing damn good and well I would destroy everything that came out of your cunt mouth?
To get a free cd before it's released... you have to click a fucking button. CLICK A FUCKING BUTTON. CLICK. A. Fucking. BUTTON. It couldn't BE EASIER! The only way it could be easier, is if the record company let you pick it up for free at the store, and that wouldn't even be easier because you'd have to drive there, then open that shitty plastic wrap they put on it. If I want to hear the new Busta cd, all I have to do is click the left button on my mouse. CLICK THE LEFT BUTTON ON MY MOUSE.
I have thorougly consumed your little petty argument. Bow down to a power greater than you.
Someone once told me that people that feel the need to praise themselves do so to hide their inabilities. You can bow down to yourself if you want. I will simply use logic to argue your claims. In the last census of 2003 in was shown that about 55% of US households have the internet, and of that 55% about 60% have broadband. So about 30% of the US households have highspeed internet. Let's say have of those households are music fans, shit I'll bump it up to 70% just to be generous even though the number of music fans in the states is no where near 100%. So about 22% of American households have high speed internet and are able to properly access websites that offer albums. Now of those millions that have high speed, only a small margin use torrent sites, the place where full albums are at the click of a "FUCKING BUTTON" as you so eloquintly put it. Go to any major torrent site which caters to the world and you'll notice that even of the top downloaded items the number of seeders is usually inthe hudreds and leechers is in the thousands, so where are these millions of people downloading. A study at Harvard recently said that it takes 5000 downloads of an album to drop just 1 sales ( http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html ). The same article also mentions how DVD sales and video game sales which are also easily available on the net for free have both drastically grown in the past several years. I personally could have downloaded King Kong before it was released on DVD the week before and it was one of the highest downloaded movies on the torrent sites, yet it sold 6.5 million copies in 6 days. That's nearly 7 platinum in one week. Explain that oh great knowledgable one. Movies break records every year in some form another for the last wlittle while while music struggles along.
Thriller sold well for various reasons, many bought multiple copies because of change in technology. When it came out the LP was the norm, then the tape became popular very soon after and people wanted a copy for their walkman and car, and the the CD was released and people slowly bought that one too, and thanks to low prices and a very string economy this could all happen quite easily. Look at any big album fro that era, they all destroy the sales of today and even 10 years ago.Thriller never would have touched 26 million if it came out in '92.
Someone explain to me why downloading helps sales. It doesn't in any way. It only hurts sales, downloading also hurts television ratings, radio ratings, DVD sales, movies sales, it hurts almost all media. If you can dl it for free, why buy it or even watch on TV. And bullshit you download an album, realize its good, then buy it. How does that help anything. You download 100 albums a year and buy maybe 5 of them, as apposed to buying 100 albums. Music is getting worse and worse, movies are getting worse and worse, television is getting worse and worse, and people downloading it all for free is partially to blame.
I never said it helped sales in general. I said it helped some artists, mainly unknowns trying to get exposure. It with out a doubt helped radiohead sell Kid A. Even dubbed tapes helped Metallica become huge. With every million tapes bootlegged Metallica saw huge increases at live shows. Today it's not just ticket sales falling it's concert sales. You can't download a live show and come even close to being there, yet particularly in new acts they aren't filling up shit. What's the last new act that filled up a football stadium?
TV ratings are soaring. NBC may be in the shitter but America Idoil does better every year. CSI has like three shows all smashing the ratings, and I already mentioned how well movies are doing. Superman does 60 million and they call it disappointing. In the early 90s, with inflation added in, doing 30 million in the first week would have been huge.
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click a button.
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Illegal downloading obviously affects artists and record labels. But illegal downloading is nothing more than a by-product of the internet. At this stage in the game, illegal downloading is basically unstoppable. I know...lets shut down the internet(I can hear it already).
What most people fail to acknowledge or even contemplate is the NUMEROUS positive effects of music and the internet. I've been exposed to exponentially more music via the internet than mainstream media in the past 5 years. I could probably attribute 75% of my music purchased in that time to being exposed to that particular artist online, not on the radio / tv. That goes for both new and old musicians. I've been able to locate and BUY numerous CD's that I could NEVER find in the town I lived in. Many people don't get too many choices when it comes to hearing alternative music styles / artists in their home town. The internet is the only way.
All you ever hear about from record labels is how illegal downloading is destroying their business. But that arguement is only viable if record sales are zero...which they are not. True, sales are down in probably every genre of new music released. But I still believe that if people heard top notch quality artistic music that the sales would follow. There are still albums released that are going multiplatinum like Kanye, 50, Em, Mariah Carey, which fit into the young / hiphop R&B genre. You know these people are being dl'd like a motherfucker but they are still pushing crazy units.
Record execs love the downloading excuse because it absolves them of any guilt. It's not their fault the sales are down, it's these thieving downloaders!! :tosser: They never mention how they promote the disposable nature of music. All they do is find some puppet who dresses / says whatever they tell them to, hype the shit out of them, and then toss them to the curb quicker than they picked them up. And they wonder why they can't sell that shit? It's because the public isn't as stupid as they believe.
I could keep going, but the bottom line is that illegally downloading music is strictly a by-product of the internet. The internet provides as many positives for music, it's just that no labels ever talk about it because that would mean that their wack ass industry is suffering cuz those assholes have no fucking clue about music.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
He told you why he hasn't bought it ffs.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
He told you why he hasn't bought it ffs.
You don't understand. Please, don't reply to my posts unless you at least have the intelligence to understand them, o.k.? He didn't buy the album, but yet has the album. If he wouldn't have been able to download, he would have BOUGHT the album. Busta would have more money right now. O's waiting out for a special edition, I don't blame him, I'd do the same thing... but it does affect record sales. O may have bought the original, *AND* bought the special edition if he had no way of downloading the album for free. This isn't hard to figure out, I don't know why everybody wants to be so crystal clean, everyone does it, it's a problem the industry faces and it's not going to get any better.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
He told you why he hasn't bought it ffs.
You don't understand. Please, don't reply to my posts unless you at least have the intelligence to understand them, o.k.? He didn't buy the album, but yet has the album. If he wouldn't have been able to download, he would have BOUGHT the album. Busta would have more money right now. O's waiting out for a special edition, I don't blame him, I'd do the same thing... but it does affect record sales. O may have bought the original, *AND* bought the special edition if he had no way of downloading the album for free. This isn't hard to figure out, I don't know why everybody wants to be so crystal clean, everyone does it, it's a problem the industry faces and it's not going to get any better.
Then why are DVDs selling more and more each year? It's the same click of a button. How about video games. I can download both just as easy as I can albums. No one is saying these don't lose customers to downloads, what I argue is whether it's from people that download and become enticed to buy because they really like it, or not, the overall sales are not as hurt from downloading hte the industry thinks. It's just rich, overprivileged, white male know-it-alls trying to cover their ass and find an excuse for releasing and promoting shitty records. What's the last top to bottom great album you downloaded and didn't buy?
Let's not even get into the whole fans becoming fans from downloading and then going to see these bands in concert, giving the artist a lot more money than a CD sale ever could. Once rap is done as the top pop form and the next great live genre comes in (it may be a few eras away) and artists realize that with great tours they don't need record sales you will see artists not even bothering with record labels. As the internet gets bigger I predict there will be artists that get famous through giving songs away for free, building a solid fan base and then toouring to sell out shows across the world and end up among the top money makers in music. The Rolling Stones made shit off their last album in sales but squashed everyone else in money because of tours. They easily could have given the album away on the internet. Yet there fans are mostly old snd don't use the net all that much so they don't have reason toembrace this philosphy but it will happen down the line and the record execs will finally get fucked the way they have been doing the fucking for the last 50 years. However once this happens the same rich, overprivileged, white male know-it-alls will cry foul and convince their rich, overprivileged, white male know-it-all friends in congress to better regulate the internet and then we're all fucked, again. I hope I'm wrong about that last part.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
He told you why he hasn't bought it ffs.
You don't understand. Please, don't reply to my posts unless you at least have the intelligence to understand them, o.k.? He didn't buy the album, but yet has the album. If he wouldn't have been able to download, he would have BOUGHT the album. Busta would have more money right now. O's waiting out for a special edition, I don't blame him, I'd do the same thing... but it does affect record sales. O may have bought the original, *AND* bought the special edition if he had no way of downloading the album for free. This isn't hard to figure out, I don't know why everybody wants to be so crystal clean, everyone does it, it's a problem the industry faces and it's not going to get any better.
Why should he buy two copies? And who's to say that he couldn't have just got a tape dub from a friend.
Basically, I don't even care if you reply to this because you are probably the most childish poster on this forum, you've always got to be attacking someone for something, I hope it make you feel better abouit yourself because theres obviously something wrong.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
He told you why he hasn't bought it ffs.
You don't understand. Please, don't reply to my posts unless you at least have the intelligence to understand them, o.k.? He didn't buy the album, but yet has the album. If he wouldn't have been able to download, he would have BOUGHT the album. Busta would have more money right now. O's waiting out for a special edition, I don't blame him, I'd do the same thing... but it does affect record sales. O may have bought the original, *AND* bought the special edition if he had no way of downloading the album for free. This isn't hard to figure out, I don't know why everybody wants to be so crystal clean, everyone does it, it's a problem the industry faces and it's not going to get any better.
Give it up man.....me, you and just a couple other people are apparently the morons who actually believe downloading affects sales ::). I can't describe it any more clearly, you can't describe it any more plainly or clearly.
I honestly can't see how someone believes that downloading an album can be anything but a negative effect on sales.
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
He told you why he hasn't bought it ffs.
You don't understand. Please, don't reply to my posts unless you at least have the intelligence to understand them, o.k.? He didn't buy the album, but yet has the album. If he wouldn't have been able to download, he would have BOUGHT the album. Busta would have more money right now. O's waiting out for a special edition, I don't blame him, I'd do the same thing... but it does affect record sales. O may have bought the original, *AND* bought the special edition if he had no way of downloading the album for free. This isn't hard to figure out, I don't know why everybody wants to be so crystal clean, everyone does it, it's a problem the industry faces and it's not going to get any better.
Give it up man.....me, you and just a couple other people are apparently the morons who actually believe downloading affects sales ::). I can't describe it any more clearly, you can't describe it any more plainly or clearly.
I honestly can't see how someone believes that downloading an album can be anything but a negative effect on sales.
It's a negative on a lot of the mainstream releases. I am not arguing that. I am arguing how much of an effect it has.
I am also arguing that it can be a positive for lesser known acts. There is no denying in any way shape or form that Naperster was a huge reason Radiohead's Kid A hit number 1 on the charts. Everyone in the industry knew and they chose to stop talking about it.
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Shallow, you got heart (or your just plain stubborn) for even trying to argue the other point of view, because all the evidence is against you. But I give you props for being a giant in the world of netbanging iconoclasts.
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iconoclasts, i didnt know that word even made it to kansas yet, i give you props for being so well spoken despite your background
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Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.
... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it. So, blaming downloading is bullshit. riiiiight.
He told you why he hasn't bought it ffs.
You don't understand. Please, don't reply to my posts unless you at least have the intelligence to understand them, o.k.? He didn't buy the album, but yet has the album. If he wouldn't have been able to download, he would have BOUGHT the album. Busta would have more money right now. O's waiting out for a special edition, I don't blame him, I'd do the same thing... but it does affect record sales. O may have bought the original, *AND* bought the special edition if he had no way of downloading the album for free. This isn't hard to figure out, I don't know why everybody wants to be so crystal clean, everyone does it, it's a problem the industry faces and it's not going to get any better.
Why should he buy two copies? And who's to say that he couldn't have just got a tape dub from a friend.
Basically, I don't even care if you reply to this because you are probably the most childish poster on this forum, you've always got to be attacking someone for something, I hope it make you feel better abouit yourself because theres obviously something wrong.
You're not intelligent enough to even follow a simple line of thought. Where did I say that O should buy two copies? Where did I say that? Read again, and quote where I said that, bitch. I said I don't blame him for downloading it... but yet you ignore that because your childish mind can't seperate a: what you WANT to do, with b: what is the RIGHT thing to do.
Now, what you want to do is just download the album without buying it, then maybe buy the special edition; that's what I want to do too, and that's what I have no problem with O doing.... however; the "right" thing to do would be to not download the album... but we all choose to do things that are wrong.
You can't follow a train of thought that far, though, because you're a little boy who just does what he wants to do and has no judgement of what's right or wrong, only what you want to do.
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Shallow, you got heart (or your just plain stubborn) for even trying to argue the other point of view, because all the evidence is against you. But I give you props for being a giant in the world of netbanging iconoclasts.
Well that may be a strong word to describe me. I'm a big fan of traditions, just not when they are attatched to evil. In this case I think it's just the industry big wigs looking for a cop out for their overpricing and poor promoting. I appreciate the props though.
I am not stubborn, well I am but not in this case. I trule believe that the effect downloading has had on sales is minimal when compared to the effect high prices and simple poor quality with lack of proper promotion has had. The music biz is a bunch of lemmings. They see what works and then they just follow it and when it doesn't work again they find an excuse. When 'NSynch broke the record a couple years back with over 2 million copies sold in the first week it was a completely brilliant move business-wise. They found the target audience, gave them the type of songs they wanted, filled the album with amazing songs as far as that audience was concerned, then pre-hyped the album with a let's break the record campaign that lead many of these fans to buy multiple copies in that first week, some buying up to 5 copies each. This was at the height of the dowloading era, and the album went diamond. Just last year Usher went just about diamond. It has been proven that you can sell records in this day and age yet so many albums flop. Why? Because no one wants them to begin with. You mention how Busta Rhymes couldn't sell big, and it was blamed on downloading. Busta Rhymes could never sell big. He's gone only as high as 1X platinum, and he'll atleast do that with this album. Both the MMLP and The Eminem Show were the highest selling albums of their respective years, they were also the most illegally downloaded albums those years. A study in Britain last year explained how the average illegal downloader ends up spending more money on music than the average music fan who doesn't download. ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4718249.stm ). This whole idea isn't something I came up with on my own.
Like I said before, as long is the internet doesn't get mauled by the governments there will be a time when artists get popular giving thier songs away for free on their websites, or a website will emerge in the mainstream where artists all put thie songs on it for free, and they will use that exposure to build a fan base and then tour and make the real cash, thus eliminating the record company.
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Damn Shallow has some good points.
I wonder if there have been any comprehensive studies on how downloading affects music sales.
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Damn Shallow has some good points.
I wonder if there have been any comprehensive studies on how downloading affects music sales.
I mentioned the one Harvard did above.
http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html
It may not be perfect but these kinds of studies never are.
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iconoclasts, i didnt know that word even made it to kansas yet, i give you props for being so well spoken despite your background
I don't live in Kansas, and never have lived in Kansas.
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delete
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lots of funny posts here, and im not being sarcastic btw.
The main reason I would buy an album is SOUND QUALITY. Thats it.
I have a mid-range sound system at home aswell as a portable system. Listening to 192kbps mp3s doesnt really cut it with my earphones or headphones. What I end up doing is purchasing the CD, ripping into FLAC(home) and ogg vorbis(portable) format and storing the CD away.
I have only bought St. Elsewhere and Fishscale this year.
I will buy Obie's, Bucks, Dr. Dres, and anything Wu affiliated when it comes out.