West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Lieutenant Abdul-Shakur on July 24, 2006, 06:36:27 AM
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"Fox News military analyst Maj. Bob Bevelacqua, a former Green Beret, appearing tonight on "The O'Reilly Factor," compared Israeli actions in Lebanon and Gaza with Nazi actions in Russia during World War II.
Bevelacqua, a long-time Fox News contributor, said the Israelis were unwilling to compromise in their conflict with Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. He denied that the Israelis willingly evacuated from Gaza and Lebanon.
"Saying the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon is like saying the Nazis pulled out of Moscow," he said. "They invaded Lebanon. They invaded Gaza. They take homes and then they give them back. And they expect some type of great recognition.""
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51137
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Booya, someone got the balls to actually spit that real shit on OUR OWN MEDIA.
I salute the Major
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"the Israelis were unwilling to compromise"
what compromise is that? to destroy only half of israel?
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This Bevelacqua guy is an idiot. Hitler was trying to seize the USSR's sovereign territory. When Hitler pulled out, or was rather forced to pull out, the territory he had seized went back to its prior sovereign. Israel took over Gaza and the West Bank, when Gaza was a part of Egypt and when the West Bank was a part of Jordan, in an act of defense from two belligerent states at the time, that constantly have tried to destroy Israel. When Israel pulled out, Gaza did not go back to being under Egyptian sovereignty. Jordan doesn't ask back for the west bank either (Because neither king Hussein was an idiot and nor is Abdallah). These two territories weren't returned to the sovereignties from which they were seized. This dumbass you quoted simply enjoys puting the Nazis and Israel in the same sentence.
Israel being in Lebanon is even more interesting, Lebanon's sovereignty is constantly undermined by external factors for the cause of destroying Israel. Israel responds to belligerence, unlike Hitler who initiated attacks. Second of all, Israel does not have territorial ambitions as opposed to Hitler. And if you don't believe me you should remember that Israel is a democracy. What does this have to do with anything you ask?- simple, Israel is trying to be the state of the Jewish majority (This is the most widespread interpretation in Israel of the Jewish-Democratical State principle), more territory means demographical instability due to possible growth in population ( about 20% of Israel's population are Arabs even now).
You can't be serious when you tell me you accept his laughably feeble comparison.
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This Bevelacqua guy is an idiot. Hitler was trying to seize the USSR's sovereign territory. When Hitler pulled out, or was rather forced to pull out, the territory he had seized went back to its prior sovereign. Israel took over Gaza and the West Bank, when Gaza was a part of Egypt and when the West Bank was a part of Jordan, in an act of defense from two belligerent states at the time, that constantly have tried to destroy Israel. When Israel pulled out, Gaza did not go back to being under Egyptian sovereignty. Jordan doesn't ask back for the west bank either (Because neither king Hussein was an idiot and nor is Abdallah). These two territories weren't returned to the sovereignties from which they were seized. This dumbass you quoted simply enjoys puting the Nazis and Israel in the same sentence.
Israel being in Lebanon is even more interesting, Lebanon's sovereignty is constantly undermined by external factors for the cause of destroying Israel. Israel responds to belligerence, unlike Hitler who initiated attacks. Second of all, Israel does not have territorial ambitions as opposed to Hitler. And if you don't believe me you should remember that Israel is a democracy. What does this have to do with anything you ask?- simple, Israel is trying to be the state of the Jewish majority (This is the most widespread interpretation in Israel of the Jewish-Democratical State principle), more territory means demographical instability due to possible growth in population ( about 20% of Israel's population are Arabs even now).
You can't be serious when you tell me you accept his laughably feeble comparison.
hold your horses jewbacca, i dont have time to read your whole love letter. the man's a GREEN BERRET. If that comparison doesnt made sense he would've never said it. Nevertheless, he said it, he meant, it, and the people understood it, (apart from some dumbfucks).
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What is the betting that we never see this analyst appear on Fox ever again? this is what happens when someone dares to speak out they immediately get sacked or sidelined
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What is the betting that we never see this analyst appear on Fox ever again? this is what happens when someone dares to speak out they immediately get sacked or sidelined
He's a former green beret he can get away with it, but don't look for his commentary on their station again.
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Ah of course, because being a Green Beret means being right about everything, it means he's practically GOD himself.
I can quote many people specially trained in guerilla warfare shitting on his point of view, but since when is this an indication?
At least read the total refutation of your feeble arguments before you open your fuckin filthy mouth to respond, you Jew-hating ignorant fuck. How dare u come up with such comparisons, you fuckin Nazi?
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1)Ah of course, because being a Green Beret means being right about everything, it means he's practically GOD himself.
2)I can quote many people specially trained in guerilla warfare shitting on his point of view, but since when is this an indication?
At least read the total refutation of your feeble arguments before you open your fuckin filthy mouth to respond, 3)you Jew-hating ignorant fuck. How dare u come up with such comparisons, you fuckin Nazi?
1) ok dickface, he's a professional military analyst on Fox News, before they spit their shit, they review it a thousand times, get other motherfuckaz to spit their opinions.
2) your a class fucking retard, your statements are pointing nowhere. Their leading nowhere, a Green Beret soldier, former commander of spec. ops. and a military/political analyst is not to be compared with a guerilla warrior. lol
3) i dont hate jews mann, matter of fact i fucked the living shit out of this jewish hoe(and vice versa..lol), and i have to say she was good, so i gots respect for the jewbaccas cuzzin....lol...but how can I be a nazi u anus smellin goof, lol...remember im supporting the Major whose comparing the jews wit Nazis..lol..
your a fucking goof ball, you dont know shit... you illiterate fuck....and if by this point your still replying(like the way you are)...there is no hope for your dumbass
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Believe it or not, Jew-hating bitch, Israel (where I live btw) is packed with specially trained guerilla warfare experts who have 100 times the field experience he has and who are also military/political analysts. Your initial statement referred to him as merely being a "GREEN BERET" and you expected that to be the source of his credibility. You're a fucking clown.
My statements refute this entire comparison in a highly visible manner, though you admittedly didn't read my post. By supporting his view, which includes the disregard of the historical events to which he tried to draw parallels, you've proven to be an ignorant fucktard. Of course, that is in addition to your Jew-hating rhetoric.
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3) i dont hate jews mann, matter of fact i fucked the living shit out of this jewish hoe(and vice versa..lol), so i gots respect for the jewbaccas cuzzin....lol...
oh yes that sounds especially credible and not nazi AT ALL!
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i fucked the living shit out of this jewish hoe(and vice versa..lol),
:-X :-X :-X ................:puke:
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this isnt the first time i have read a comparison on Israeli's and Nazi.....someone had a interesting one bout how the Germans treated Jews in germany and how Israel are doing it to Palestenians (and dont take this to the fullest extent, i know there isnt no damn concentration camps etc) but the points he made seem pretty accurate and interesting, wish i had the article, but o well.
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this isnt the first time i have read a comparison on Israeli's and Nazi.....someone had a interesting one bout how the Germans treated Jews in germany and how Israel are doing it to Palestenians (and dont take this to the fullest extent, i know there isnt no damn concentration camps etc) but the points he made seem pretty accurate and interesting, wish i had the article, but o well.
LOL. Yes, GREAT comparison. Because Jews were mad at the Nazis for occupying Germany and began suicide bombing German civilians... ::). Someone please ban this idiot.
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so let me guess, an American said this, so therefore anyone non-American is gonna think this is the view of all Americans
yeah?
thanks for clearing that up
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ha!.... jewbacca
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the comparison is a lil harsh, but what Israel is doing right now is ridiculous. No other country, except maybe for the US, could get away with an invasion like this
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What's ridiculous is people who condone terrorist control over (seemingly) sovereign states (like Lebanon).
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this isnt the first time i have read a comparison on Israeli's and Nazi.....someone had a interesting one bout how the Germans treated Jews in germany and how Israel are doing it to Palestenians (and dont take this to the fullest extent, i know there isnt no damn concentration camps etc) but the points he made seem pretty accurate and interesting, wish i had the article, but o well.
LOL. Yes, GREAT comparison. Because Jews were mad at the Nazis for occupying Germany and began suicide bombing German civilians... ::). Someone please ban this idiot.
yea im an idiot, i said dont take this comment into full extent, the comparison was quite accurate with ISRAELI TACTICS against palestenians, i dont give a fuck bout the other side, it wuznt that kind of comparison. it was a interesting article...you cant help but bash people that make jews look bad can you? or that might know something a little more than your ignorant ass? You're the type who can get shutdown and then you turn around to correct someones gramatical errors etc. Sigh, i love people like you. you should stick to commenting on Laker articles, cause you're quite clueless to alot of things said and done.
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Abdul Shakur might be the dumbest poster on this board. Don't pay him any attention.
For God's sake, he is a U.S. Marine who supports terrorist groups that kill U.S. Marines. Does that make any sense? Hezballah killed 241 American marines in a terrorist bombings in 1983 in Beirut, and this motherfucker said he wanted to march and protest with them.
Abdul, if you just don't know history just admit it. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you knew about this bombing of US Marines and you still want to march with Hzballah then you are a fucking moron and a disgrace to the USMC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing
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What's ridiculous is people who condone terrorist control over (seemingly) sovereign states (like Lebanon).
Israel should not be in the position to "liberate" a democratic government (Lebanon). Taking 3 soldiers hostage does not give u the right to invade a whole fucking country and bomb hundreds of civilians and in one day destroy an airport that took 15 years to build
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this isnt the first time i have read a comparison on Israeli's and Nazi.....someone had a interesting one bout how the Germans treated Jews in germany and how Israel are doing it to Palestenians (and dont take this to the fullest extent, i know there isnt no damn concentration camps etc) but the points he made seem pretty accurate and interesting, wish i had the article, but o well.
LOL. Yes, GREAT comparison. Because Jews were mad at the Nazis for occupying Germany and began suicide bombing German civilians... ::). Someone please ban this idiot.
yea im an idiot, i said dont take this comment into full extent, the comparison was quite accurate with ISRAELI TACTICS against palestenians, i dont give a fuck bout the other side, it wuznt that kind of comparison. it was a interesting article...you cant help but bash people that make jews look bad can you? or that might know something a little more than your ignorant ass? You're the type who can get shutdown and then you turn around to correct someones gramatical errors etc. Sigh, i love people like you. you should stick to commenting on Laker articles, cause you're quite clueless to alot of things said and done.
You're a brainwashed idiot, you don't even realize that for every 1 article bashing what the Jews have done, there are 10 bashing what the Palestinians have done. Who cares what some dickhead biased writer thinks? He's obviously influenced your decision and he's obviously a dickhead if he compares Jews to Nazis (<still LMAO). Then you say I switch the topic when I get shut-down and resort to grammar checks...Where have I mentioned grammar (or anything off topic for that matter) in this thread? You're the one switching subjects, talking about Lakers and grammatical errors when the topic at hand was Jews being compared to Nazis...done. :D 8)
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You're the one switching subjects, talking about Lakers and grammatical errors when the topic at hand was Jews being compared to Nazis...done. :D 8)
ya what a dipshit
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What's ridiculous is people who condone terrorist control over (seemingly) sovereign states (like Lebanon).
Israel should not be in the position to "liberate" a democratic government (Lebanon). Taking 3 soldiers hostage does not give u the right to invade a whole fucking country and bomb hundreds of civilians and in one day destroy an airport that took 15 years to build
aha, so how should have israel reacted in your oppinion?
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Wow real american, you're not a dumbass...
Iknow- thanks for that information 1 bashing the jews, 10 bashing palestenians...which shows what? in your opinion how much worse the palestenians are? Cause it could look like it shows how many things people dont know bout this world and what is going on. "Done"....lmao yea right, you have not proven shit. All you've done is try to disprove and bash peoples comments. You and Real american have to be the worse members with ignorance when it comes to being open to topics.
Real American he was a marine and went through shit at first hand.....cause he chooses humanity over "patriotism" he's a disgrace? your right, you're not the stereotypical "american"
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, you don't even realize that
what happened to the so called palestinian propoganda
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Israel should not be in the position to "liberate" a democratic government (Lebanon).
First of all, as you can see this is exactly what Israel is doing right now, hence, at least practically, it is in such a position. I hope it succeeds in Liberating Lebanon from the terrorist rule of Hezbollah.
Second of all, Israel has the ground to do so because Lebanon is not merely a state whose democracy is being compromised by Hezbollah, it's a state whose territory is being used by Hezbollah in attempts to destroy Israel. Lebanon's internal affairs wouldn't concern Israel, hadn't they had a direct implication on Israeli citizens' safety.
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Don't give me all this propoagandanist bullshit, Israel is flattening Lebanon its even been attacking predominantly christian areas, completely decimation of an entire country and you call that liberating, do you call the illegal destruction of a countries infrastructure which is a necessity to life liberation to? do you call the humanitarian disaster there liberation? do you call israeli children drawing little israeli flags on the shellls before they are used to kill yet more civilians liberation?. What about the prime ministers declaring that the israeli army will bomb Gaza back to the stone age, thats an open boast right there that he intends to use the IDF to indiscriminatley bomb all palestinians in Gaza and whoever gets blown up and however many children die or if limbs blown off fuck them.
You speak with so much deceit you and all sympathisers defending your actions by pointing out that you are giving them notice to flee for their lives, as if forcing people to flee for their lives isnt disgusting enough, your army has been very buisy destroying their roads so where the hell are they meant to run to. In fact the Israeli helicopters have been destroying vehicle after vehicle and especially destroying convoys because they might be mobile rocket launchers, LOL ive never heard so much twisted reasoning in all my life I know how sophisticated the technology is, they know damn well its a civilian convoy yet they have incinerated these convoys. Incinerating dozens of people in the process.
Your a disgusting sympathiser, who is making excuses for a massacre and is willfully ignoring all of the information that I just mentioned. The insanity of the IDF coupled with the complicity of especially Britain and America, coupled with the constant attempt to link everything to Iran and Syria is nauseating. How the fuck do christians live with themselves with the systematic targeting of both christians and arabs in Lebanon. One of these days the Israelis will feel the full force of international law and I long for when that day comes right now it seems you think are above the law and the gentiles being less than you can't do anything to stop you.
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So much to say, yet so little meaning. Im not a sympathiser, Im an Israeli, living in Israel, more than once have Kassam missiles landed in my college. More than once we needed to step away from the windowes cause the anti-Kassam alarm went off. Don't talk to me about illegal destruction homie. I don't care what the IDF does as long as it can bring this absurdity to a minimum. Turning the other cheek means death of civilians. If Lebanon cares so much for its sovereignty you should ask the leadership why they don't mind Hezbollah doing whatever the fuck it wants. Would you like to live under a constant threat without having the most fundamental defense you have, your sovereign state, protect you?
Israel exists, Hezbollah wants Israel to cease existing. Israel is what protects ME and close to other 6 million people, from terrorists who feel it is legitimate to kill Muslim people if later you call them Shahids. Israel is what protects me from those who think it is OK to kill a person who : 1. Doesn't belong to their religion 2. Doesn't belong to their denomination of the same religion 3. Lives on land that has been previously occupied by their religion.
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Exactly you dont care what the IDF does, you have just confirmed my point, its willful ignorance on your part.
p.s stop pulling the evil terrorist card when Irgun are celebtrated by jews in power.
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"I don't care what the IDF does as long as it brings this absurdity to a minimum". Or would you rather take things out of context?
willfull ignorance is a very nice term. I guess this is why you disregard Irgun being a defense force fighting for independence as opposed to Hamas and Hezbollah that are offense forces with a detriment to those on behalf of which they ostensibly act, harming their indepdendence and having the death of those they represent on their flag (SHAHIDS).
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On the contray I was not taking your words out of context, you must be completely insane if you think this massacre is what you describe as keeping absurdity at a minimum. No lets not twist things here if you call Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists then you can not be a hypocrite and call Irgun a "defence force" Irgun were terrorists. In fact the commander then went onto become a future prime minister. You can not have it both ways either they are both terror units or they are both defence forces. You can not pick and choose
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If you wanna call the Irgun terrorists, please do so. Though fact is the two groups are incomparable morally. Irgun was created to defend the Jewish population in Palestine from Arab aggression that started after WW1. The Irgun wasn't about harming Jews, it was about defending Jews. Does Hamas or Hezbollah care for any Palestinian\Arab lives at all?- had they cared they would either do something to make the Palestinians\Arabs feel it[: 1. Either by refraining from attacking an adversary much stronger 2. Or by managing to somehow destroy their adversary.] or they would at least stop encouraging Arabs\Palestinians to commit acts such as suicide bombings. In addition, Israel had never expressed intents of belligerence, even though it responded harshly to attacks, unlike the Arab groups from which the Irgun had to protect the Jewish population.
Israel has proven many times it can't be simply wiped off the map. They also know it. Question is why they keep going what they do?- Because Hamas cares for the Palestinians? Because Hezbollah cares for the Lebanese?.....gimme a break man.
P.S Absurdity would be leting terrorists have their way with Israeli citizens. Absurdity is being a sovereign state that allowes terrorists to undermine its sovereignty and declare war on other countries on behalf of the sovereign. That's the kind of absurdity I was talking about.
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What do you expect them to do? live in squalor just watch the israelis impose yet more 24 hr curfews, IDF soldiers firing rockets from helicopters into a crowd of demonstrators, the IDF said they would investigate but no one ever replied. Are they meant to sit idly by as IDF soldiers shoot civilians with live rounds when the demonstrators throw stones? are they meant to just accept that their land is stolen? are they meant to accept that the israelis refuse to recognise them? are they just to accept tyranny? are they just to accept that despite being there for 10.000 years, despite being ethnically cleansed, the UN resolutions call it "deported" that they have no right to return? are they just to accept that Israel can incarcerate civilians indefinitely without trial?
Come on
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And dont try something cheap like calling me a racist ::) i have no hatred towards any race. Also do not talk about the deal that Arafat walked away from, I keep hearing this crap on tv and lo and behold when I look into it THERE WERE SOME QUITE BIG STUMBLING BLOCKS
Namely
1) It did not give palestinians the right of self defence
2) It did not recognise palestinians
3) It barred the palestinians from having any kind of a military
4) It did not create a soversign area, meaning the Israelis were still free to violate the apportioned area at will
5) It did not give the right of return for 2 million refugees
I am just so sick and tired of the deceit and lies and misinformation, and yes I know that other arab countries are complicit in this also, namely Egypt and Jordan. You strike me sometimes as being intelligent to which is ironic, even if you support this completely immoral attacking of the entire Lebanon you should be smart enough to see the bigger agenda. If they keep trying to provoke Iran and Syria then we will have World War 3 they meaning the western powers not just Israel.
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These conditions of combat are being imposed by the Palestinian leadership when the IDF responds to Kassam missiles.. They don't care for Palestinian lives...how much proof do u need...why don't you condemn their brainwash of children....they tell children they gonna go to heaven if they go out like Shahids. Hezbollah is hiding weapons in populated ereas knowing they are going to be bombed. They are playing a media war, and you so easily fall into their trap. They want you to see every Lebanese dead they want you to see every Palestinian dead but one thing you guys never understand- Terrorists look at their casualties and FEEL nothing. Their casualties are just a token in their Media war against Israel. So far they're succeeding, terror has legitimacy.
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Look, I have already said that I condemn the targeting of civilians but these are terror tactics being used by Israel also. Kidnappings indiscriminate bombings, admitted indiscriminate bombings, destruction of basic vital infirastructure, you can not say I am brainwashed when I recognise the terror of missiles. However you can't talk about the terror of missiles which you say yourself you have experienced (which by the way I am sorry you have had to) without then recognising just how many missiles and shells are flattening out Lebanon right now.
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There is no doubt shells hit Lebanon just like there is no doubt missiles hit north-Israel. There is not doubt shells hit Gaza just like there is not doubt missiles hit Shderot. We all know things are fucked up. You also probably know, Hezbollah would like Israel to be removed from the world's map just like Hamas would like Israel to be removed from the world's map. You understand Israel will not aid these groups in their cause. Im not even talking about history (Land disputes), or about the Hamas Charter (Which by the way doesn't even stand for a Palestinian State). I want you to understand Israel is not going to help these people destroy it, and more importantly harm its citizens. Israel, no matter how immoral you reckon it to be, has never encouraged the death of its own citizens (lol...we dont even have a death penalty). In fact, Israel is known to react harshly to death and assaults on its citizenry (I think you'd agree to this assessment). Now I would like you to ask yourself whether this important notion, life preservation of the citizenry, could be attributed to either Hamas or Hezbollah? I understand innocent people are dieing on both sides. It's dreadful, today a 15 year old died and god knowes how many people in Lebanon. But I assure you MORE people will die on their side, this is something you know. Question is why then, knowingly their government allowes Hezbollah to provoke such reactions from Israel?
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This goes back further than that, most recently Israels refusal to recognise the democratically elected government, despite what you think of them withholding aid was totally immoral and this once again lit the anger inside of palestinians and gives these groups you talk about a reason a provocation. It's not Israels right to self defence which I am calling into question its their savage response that I am. When Israel is talking about prolonging the indiscriminate bombing and shelling of Lebanon indefinitely. We both know that things are not as black and white as the media would have you believe like I said your a smart person, you know as well I do that Israel has always rejected a deal when it comes to Hamas disarming. What makes this situation worse of course, is that if Israel does not pull back from the brink does not stop violating international law then the situation will get much much worse.
We should all be calling for peace, none of us should be shrugging our shoulders the ramifications like I said are just unimaginable. I don't want to see anymore lebanese die or be maimed any less or anymore than I want to see jewish people/christian people die.
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I know of millions of dollars that have been transferred to the Palestinian Authority shortly after the begining of Olmert's cadence. That is even though Kassams were being launched at the time into Israeli territory. As far as indiscriminate bombings go, I can tell you Israel's bombings are more discriminate than the Kassam rocket launches and Hezbollah's Katiushas altogether. Problem is, Israeli bombings in Lebanon hit weaponry amassments to prevent Hezbollah from using them, a thing which causes the power of explosion to increase.
As far as International Law goes it's largely a question of interpretation. Once I have been presented with a report of Israel's, so called, violations of Intenrational Law- close to a hundred I think, maybe even more, while the Palestinian Authority DIDN'T EVEN HAVE ONE. I have dealt with the subject of International Law before when I was asked whether Israel could be held as legally responsible:
Question is whether you view the terms "cause of death" and "responsibility for death" as perpetual equivalents?
I agree that in a single legal system, under a single convention, resulting in a single sovereign assigned to maintain the safety of his subordinates (BTW this is the only political environment in which TRUE law can exist), both concepts should be, and are, equivalent.
However, when we are debating about clashes of two, or more, sovereign entities, these concepts deviate from each other in meaning.
In a war, what responsibility does one side hold toward the casualties of another?- None, the legal responsibility is laid upon the sovereign to which the casualty pertains.That is because the fundamental reason for the existence of a sovereign is his capacity to provide the safety and protection of his subordinates- by failing to do so he undermines the convention with his subordinates, hence the reason for his political power and existence.
There are no actual legal obligations between two sides at war- that's what war means by definition. Law exists only as part of a convention. War means absence of convention between the sides. Hence, "cause of death" and "responsibility for death" mean different things when we're not discussing a situation within the boundaries of a single set of laws under a single sovereign.
War means absence of convention between the sides, war means absence of agreement between the sides. Absence of agreement between the sides means absence of unitary law applicable to both sides, hence the absence of legal responsibility between the sides.
This is why the concept of International Law is hollow of meaning, because this is the only law originating in a non-existent sovereign. A law does not exist without a sovereign. A sovereign is a product of convention as much as a convention is a product of a sovereign (Chicken and egg type of thing especially in democracies). An International Law can not exist without an international sovereign. That is unless you truly believe we're living in a global state or that the UN is a substantial international sovereign.
P.S
Me personally, Im all for peace, Im for one global democratical state man. I believe nationality by definition is harmful. But the status quo is a world with borders and states. A world in which the state is there to protect ME from anarchy.
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Problem is your doing it again your saying that international law becomes obsolete when two nations are at war and yet even if such a notion was true you say the reason it becomes null and void is because in this case Israel is defending its people. That statement does not hold up when you look at the complete annhilation of Lebanon, who is that protecting? lets put aside the niceties of international law for a moment and reflect on the actions themselves they are morally abhorrent you know yourself that what Israel is doing is morally abhorrent but instead people like you who support israel in other words jews and non jews alike make yourselves look very extreme by instead choosing not to comment on the actions. There is nothing selective about the targeting of an entire country and they arent accidentally incinerating convoys that is just cold blooded murder.
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The statement would be valid in regard to any country, Israel or any other country. Killing per se could be classified as morally abhorrent, true. Morals as you know are a derivative of culture. I'm telling you this to show you it's often a local thing- Aztecs sacrificed thousands of people to their gods without considering their killing as abhorrent but as normative. Western Culture views killing per se as morally abhorrent, agreed. Although even Western Culture representatives, under certain circumstances, will overlook this principle (Death penalty, War, Self-Defense etc). Israel, a representative of western culture, is confronted with such circumstances. Israel is facing an enemy who doesn't view killing per se as abhorrent. This is a cultural war. This is not to claim one culture is better than another, god forbid. I'm a Social Studies student, the first thing they teach us is there are no GOOD or BAD cultures, there are only different cultures ( :) ). All Im trying to say is that you can't even apply a single cultural scale of morals in such a conflict. Just like you can't apply a single legal scale.
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You can try and define and analyse who thinks what is morally abhorrent, but the fact is these actions are totally criminal, you can not massacre a nation and expect to get away with it but Israel thinks it can. You can not justify the deliberate destruction and murder of convoys but israel thinks it can, you can not flatten an entire country and expect to get away with it but again Israel thinks it can. Anyway in the midst of what is going on at the moment stay safe.
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That's a common mistake. People think there is something to "justify". Justice and criminality are derivatives of conventions. A sovereign is obliged to protect his citizenry, that's the only convention we're dealing here with. The rest is just demagogy.
I'm all for peace.
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Then by the same token you are saying the Nuremberg trials were a travesty?, after all a lot of those that got tried were on charges of indiscriminate bombing, they were just protecting their soverign nation after all
P.S While Israel continues to treat the palestinians like a piece of shit then there will never be peace.
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Then by the same token you are saying the Nuremberg trials were a travesty?
Largely yes. I think by definition these were display trials . They were a travesty because they have contributed to the feeble idea of International Law (With the absence of International convention) most likely in an initial attempt to achieve global domination by the big winners of WW2. There's this saying " In a war there's no right or wrong". Just like Germany was blamed for everything after WW1, it was blamed after WW2. Only that this time it seemed to make more sense because of all the "Jew-killing" that went on.
I don't treat Palestinians like shit. I have many friends who don't. I have even Palestinian buddies. The reason there's no peace has more to do with the conduct of the Palestinian leadership.
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I meant the Palestinians are treated like shit treated with real disdain by those in the israeli government as the quotes i posted unfortunately illustrate.
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You should view each quote in regard to the time from which it is taken. Then go and see who was representing the Palestinians at the time, and in which ways. I could quote Arab leaders talking about how they wanted to kill all Jews and annihilate Israel throughout the last 58 years. So what?
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It's a big deal because Sharon who is amongst those quotes was indeed a war criminal and yet he occupied office less than a year ago. That is why its a big deal
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"Fox News military analyst Maj. Bob Bevelacqua, a former Green Beret, appearing tonight on "The O'Reilly Factor," compared Israeli actions in Lebanon and Gaza with Nazi actions in Russia during World War II.
Bevelacqua, a long-time Fox News contributor, said the Israelis were unwilling to compromise in their conflict with Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. He denied that the Israelis willingly evacuated from Gaza and Lebanon.
"Saying the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon is like saying the Nazis pulled out of Moscow," he said. "They invaded Lebanon. They invaded Gaza. They take homes and then they give them back. And they expect some type of great recognition.""
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51137
The USA invaded IRAQ LOL :-\ :-\
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Booya, someone got the balls to actually spit that real shit on OUR OWN MEDIA.
I salute the Major
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, you don't even realize that
what happened to the so called palestinian propoganda
The truth always outdoes propaganda... ;)