West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on July 25, 2006, 06:54:52 AM
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Why doesn't this guy just retire and do hip-hop a favor. I don't even like Jay-Z's first album, and I loved everything that came out in 1996.
This is why ya'll got to respect Eminem, because even though his plans were to retire, he didn't come out and officially express it in the media, instead he chose to put subliminal messages in his music; and leave a door open incase he came back. Jay-Z just uses this retirement thing as a marketing strategy to sell more records. His played this game 3 times now, the first time was back in 98' when he in his "In My Lifetime" era.
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Jay-Z just uses this retirement thing as a marketing strategy to sell more records.
Actually, he's mostly using it as an opportunity to play HNIC more than ever before as Prez of Def Jam, which he does exceptionally well even more than rapping.
I don't want Jay-Z to retire. Dude isn't as good as he thinks he is, but he always makes quality records. Except for "Hard Knock Life", Jay-Z has put out straight 4 out of 5 star or higher albums every time.
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Whatever, Im glad hes "back"
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Jay-Z just uses this retirement thing as a marketing strategy to sell more records.
Actually, he's mostly using it as an opportunity to play HNIC more than ever before as Prez of Def Jam, which he does exceptionally well even more than rapping.
LMAO at Jay doin it well, then why has all of his artists flopped? he´s not been involved in 1 successful project other then Rihanna´s new album. Mariah was La,Jeezy was LA,Ne-Yo was LA,Kanye did his own thing without Jay overlooking shit. so how has he done it well? the artists he´s been responsible since becoming president is Bleek,the YG`s and that other dumb fuck bitch that couldn´t sing if her life depended on it. and guess what they all have in common? extremely low sales...............
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Whatever, Im glad hes "back"
Me too...
LOL @ what Infinite said about respecting Eminem... :nawty:
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LOL @ what Infinite said about respecting Eminem... :nawty:
word
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good thing he is back
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For the life of me i can't understand why you could ever just say that jay-z sucks and you have to respect eminem
now i like both artists personally...but jay-z is 10 times the rapper eminem is. although i think whoever said hard knock life was crap was wrong...jay has put out straight 4 out of 5 albums including hard knock life....i would say that life & times of s. carter and the blueprint 2 were only like 2.5 to 3 star albums...they had a few good tracks but the rest were weak.
hard knock life had some sick fuckin tracks on it
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Storch, Cool n Dre, Timbo, Tunes are announced as producers.. this will end up as another Blueprint 2
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C'mon now who is really surprised he's back? Everyone new it was goin to happen.
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Hell yeah, the prez is BACK, time for another classic album
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fuck jay z.
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C'mon now who is really surprised he's back? Everyone new it was goin to happen.
yup.
by the way, not releasing an album in 3 years doesn't mean you retired.
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I could go for another Jay Z album....
Jay Z >>>>>>>Rick Ross, Obie Trice, DMX, Busta Rhymes and pretty much the whole rap game (minus Snoop, Cube, Nas ect.)
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Honestly, If he comes out with a hot record, I wouldn't give a fuck if he once said he's retiring.
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Jay-Z just uses this retirement thing as a marketing strategy to sell more records.
Actually, he's mostly using it as an opportunity to play HNIC more than ever before as Prez of Def Jam, which he does exceptionally well even more than rapping.
LMAO at Jay doin it well, then why has all of his artists flopped? he´s not been involved in 1 successful project other then Rihanna´s new album. Mariah was La,Jeezy was LA,Ne-Yo was LA,Kanye did his own thing without Jay overlooking shit. so how has he done it well? the artists he´s been responsible since becoming president is Bleek,the YG`s and that other dumb fuck bitch that couldn´t sing if her life depended on it. and guess what they all have in common? extremely low sales...............
Reid may have discovered/signed them, but it was Jay-Z who guided their careers as President. That means he's just as responsible for their success as L.A. Reid.
Take Jeezy, for example...Diddy had Jeezy signed to Bad Boy (as a member of Boyz N The Hood), and yet he couldn't even push them to Gold sales. Jay-Z, in comparison, had Jeezy in a solo deal and dude sells Platinum on Def Jam. Obviously, Hov did something right with Jeezy that Diddy didn't do.
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Jay- z is a good rapper, knows how to sell and is a good president on def jam plain and simple dude knows hip hop.
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For the life of me i can't understand why you could ever just say that jay-z sucks and you have to respect eminem
now i like both artists personally...but jay-z is 10 times the rapper eminem is. although i think whoever said hard knock life was crap was wrong...jay has put out straight 4 out of 5 albums including hard knock life....i would say that life & times of s. carter and the blueprint 2 were only like 2.5 to 3 star albums...they had a few good tracks but the rest were weak.
hard knock life had some sick fuckin tracks on it
10 times? That's ridiculous. If you want to say Jay is better that's fine, but what about him makes him so much better, or ten times better as you said. Most would say Em beat him on Jay's own track (Nas included), but even if Em didn't, no way was Jay's verse ten times better. Jay Z is a one trick pony. All he does is brag about himself, whether it be for the drugs he sold, the shots he called, the jewels he wore, the skills he has, or the great business mind he possesses. He's had very few tracks that truly consisted of creative writing or uncoventional ideas. At best he's very witty as a lyricist, whose less than stellar rhyming appears nicer due to his style of delivery which finds a way of hiding many faults. Now Em may share a lot of those points, but I never said Em is ten times better or even better at all. You said ten times; now please support that claim. I'd love to hear why I'm wrong.
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everyone wants to be like Mike
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For the life of me i can't understand why you could ever just say that jay-z sucks and you have to respect eminem
now i like both artists personally...but jay-z is 10 times the rapper eminem is. although i think whoever said hard knock life was crap was wrong...jay has put out straight 4 out of 5 albums including hard knock life....i would say that life & times of s. carter and the blueprint 2 were only like 2.5 to 3 star albums...they had a few good tracks but the rest were weak.
hard knock life had some sick fuckin tracks on it
10 times? That's ridiculous. If you want to say Jay is better that's fine, but what about him makes him so much better, or ten times better as you said. Most would say Em beat him on Jay's own track (Nas included), but even if Em didn't, no way was Jay's verse ten times better. Jay Z is a one trick pony. All he does is brag about himself, whether it be for the drugs he sold, the shots he called, the jewels he wore, the skills he has, or the great business mind he possesses. He's had very few tracks that truly consisted of creative writing or uncoventional ideas. At best he's very witty as a lyricist, whose less than stellar rhyming appears nicer due to his style of delivery which finds a way of hiding many faults. Now Em may share a lot of those points, but I never said Em is ten times better or even better at all. You said ten times; now please support that claim. I'd love to hear why I'm wrong.
lmao @ you trying to prove me wrong using renegade...so eminem had a better verse...so what?! that was also back when eminem was still releasing dope shit...i never said eminem was a bad artist...i have all of his albums...and i listen to most of them...but jay-z is waaaaaayyyy more consistent than eminem is. he puts out better quality music. the beats behind him are usually way better (with the exception of a couple). his lyrics on the black album alone shit all over the lyrics from any of em's albums.
jay-z is just flat out a better rapper
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They both very talented.... the end of youre conflict
ps The game beats them both looooool,
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eminem>>>>>jay-z
good to c dude is back though!!!
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wow someone just said game is better than both? and then another person said em over jayz?
why do i still post here?
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fuck jay z.
Care to elaborate? You sound real stupid making a comment like that with nothing to back it up. Plus Jay>>>>>>>>>>your favorite rappers combined.
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kill yourself bryan!
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now i like both artists personally...but jay-z is 10 times the rapper eminem is.
LMFAO! You must have not heard "Renegades"... :-X
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his lyrics on the black album alone shit all over the lyrics from any of em's albums.
:-X :-X :grumpy: :grumpy:
:puke:
...This is straight comedy.
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why do i still post here?
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Seriously, do you even know anything about hip-hop? Jay-Z was a decent lyricist at his peak, but had down-points in his career, he even started stealing not just Biggie lines, but ENTIRE verses. Eminem was an amazing lyricist at his peak, his lyrical skill surpassed almost anyones (listen to "Infinite"), his wittiness and originality on the mic, as well as his great story-telling ability was what made him so great...Sure he declined, but that was towards the end of his career, when he had nothing to prove and was basically fed up, but even then he put out some great lyrics and messages in his tracks, he let us know he was done...Eminem at his best will shit on Jay-Z at his best, it's not even a question...PeACe
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Jay-z is the most overhyped rapper of all time, no question.
And yes, Em at his peak >> Jay at his peak
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Jay-z is the most overhyped rapper of all time, no question.
And yes, Em at his peak >> Jay at his peak
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source?
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why do i still post here?
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Seriously, do you even know anything about hip-hop? Jay-Z was a decent lyricist at his peak, but had down-points in his career, he even started stealing not just Biggie lines, but ENTIRE verses. Eminem was an amazing lyricist at his peak, his lyrical skill surpassed almost anyones (listen to "Infinite"), his wittiness and originality on the mic, as well as his great story-telling ability was what made him so great...Sure he declined, but that was towards the end of his career, when he had nothing to prove and was basically fed up, but even then he put out some great lyrics and messages in his tracks, he let us know he was done...Eminem at his best will shit on Jay-Z at his best, it's not even a question...PeACe
fuckin jewbag larry h parker over here telling people about hip hop like theyre not allowed to have an opinion.
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why do i still post here?
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Seriously, do you even know anything about hip-hop? Jay-Z was a decent lyricist at his peak, but had down-points in his career, he even started stealing not just Biggie lines, but ENTIRE verses. Eminem was an amazing lyricist at his peak, his lyrical skill surpassed almost anyones (listen to "Infinite"), his wittiness and originality on the mic, as well as his great story-telling ability was what made him so great...Sure he declined, but that was towards the end of his career, when he had nothing to prove and was basically fed up, but even then he put out some great lyrics and messages in his tracks, he let us know he was done...Eminem at his best will shit on Jay-Z at his best, it's not even a question...PeACe
fuckin jewbag larry h parker over here telling people about hip hop like theyre not allowed to have an opinion.
You're a prejudice moron...The end.
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eminem killed jay on his own track...and he woulda done it again...em killed every featured mainstream guest spot he was on...there's no point in arguing w/ this but retards on this board dont understand so they keep trying to prove that its not a fact...which it is..
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fuck jay-z.
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People should care more about artistic integrity. Jay-Z is a business man, he said it himself, Eminem is a real artist. Jay-Z has pulled this marketing scheme 3 times now where he claims he's retiring to sell his "last record" and then returns with a comeback record. They made a big deal about the Black album like it was his last record, I don't know how anyone actually believed that.
Jay-Z is a product of the best marketing scheme hip-hop has ever witenessed.
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C'mon now who is really surprised he's back? Everyone new it was goin to happen.
yup.
by the way, not releasing an album in 3 years doesn't mean you retired.
No but saying you retired means you do....but Im glad hes back i would love another Jay-Z album. the Black Album was almost a classic IMO
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C'mon now who is really surprised he's back? Everyone new it was goin to happen.
yup.
by the way, not releasing an album in 3 years doesn't mean you retired.
No but saying you retired means you do....but Im glad hes back i would love another Jay-Z album. the Black Album was almost a classic IMO
The Black album was trash.
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C'mon now who is really surprised he's back? Everyone new it was goin to happen.
yup.
by the way, not releasing an album in 3 years doesn't mean you retired.
No but saying you retired means you do....but Im glad hes back i would love another Jay-Z album. the Black Album was almost a classic IMO
The Black album was trash.
Not IMO ;D
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I wouldn't go as far as saying The Black Album was trash, but it definitely is not a classic. That word gets thrown around way too much now.
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People should care more about artistic integrity. Jay-Z is a business man, he said it himself, Eminem is a real artist. Jay-Z has pulled this marketing scheme 3 times now where he claims he's retiring to sell his "last record" and then returns with a comeback record. They made a big deal about the Black album like it was his last record, I don't know how anyone actually believed that.
Jay-Z is a product of the best marketing scheme hip-hop has ever witenessed.
He's not even all that great at that. He only has one real mega hit and that was vol. 2 which sold over 5 million copies. He sells okay numbers but for this great business mind he claims to have he really hasn't sold all that much or made all that much as an artist. RD went Gold (finished at platinum years later), Vol 1 went platinum, Volume 3 did good with the rebound sales finishing off at 3x, but Dynasty only went platinum right after, and the highly touted Blueprint only went 2x and he blamed it on 9/11. Maybe if he was smart enough to release Renegade as a video he would have went 4X or 5X but then he'd look bad. The Black Album did alright at 3x so far. That's about 16 million on solo album sales, and throw in another and make it 17 for Best of Both Worlds. Blueprint 2 says 3 platinum but that's abunch of shit. It sold 1.5 and counts as two because it was double but it only cost as much as 1 disc. The magic of illusion. But let's make three and bump him to 20 million because I'm nice. So after10 discs worth he has sold 20 million of them (that's assuming the alleged soundscan scams he was part of were false) while someone like Nelly sells 19 million discs with 4 albums.
I dare someone to show Jay Z as a top ten moneymaking artist any year from '97 to '06, because I've never seen him there.
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He's not even all that great at that. He only has one real mega hit and that was vol. 2 which sold over 5 million copies. He sells okay numbers but for this great business mind he claims to have he really hasn't sold all that much or made all that much as an artist. RD went Gold (finished at platinum years later), Vol 1 went platinum, Volume 3 did good with the rebound sales finishing off at 3x, but Dynasty only went platinum right after, and the highly touted Blueprint only went 2x and he blamed it on 9/11. Maybe if he was smart enough to release Renegade as a video he would have went 4X or 5X but then he'd look bad. The Black Album did alright at 3x so far. That's about 16 million on solo album sales, and throw in another and make it 17 for Best of Both Worlds. Blueprint 2 says 3 platinum but that's abunch of shit. It sold 1.5 and counts as two because it was double but it only cost as much as 1 disc. The magic of illusion. But let's make three and bump him to 20 million because I'm nice. So after10 discs worth he has sold 20 million of them (that's assuming the alleged soundscan scams he was part of were false) while someone like Nelly sells 19 million discs with 4 albums.
I dare someone to show Jay Z as a top ten moneymaking artist any year from '97 to '06, because I've never seen him there.
His label was able to make Memphis Bleek sell platinum.. that's great marketing. I don't think we can argue that he's been able to generate record sales, maybe not as many as Nelly or Eminem, but he's got other ventures like the clothing line that was really successful with Rockefella. The dude is a great businessman. I'll give him that. As an artist, he's average. He's an average east coast rapper, he's an AZ level rapper, talent wise.
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AZ > Jay-Z
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AZ > Jay-Z
NO WAY!
'Format' tho is one of my favorite songs
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AZ > Jay-Z
NO WAY!
'Format' tho is one of my favorite songs
Yea AZ is nice but Jay is better
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He's not even all that great at that. He only has one real mega hit and that was vol. 2 which sold over 5 million copies. He sells okay numbers but for this great business mind he claims to have he really hasn't sold all that much or made all that much as an artist. RD went Gold (finished at platinum years later), Vol 1 went platinum, Volume 3 did good with the rebound sales finishing off at 3x, but Dynasty only went platinum right after, and the highly touted Blueprint only went 2x and he blamed it on 9/11. Maybe if he was smart enough to release Renegade as a video he would have went 4X or 5X but then he'd look bad. The Black Album did alright at 3x so far. That's about 16 million on solo album sales, and throw in another and make it 17 for Best of Both Worlds. Blueprint 2 says 3 platinum but that's abunch of shit. It sold 1.5 and counts as two because it was double but it only cost as much as 1 disc. The magic of illusion. But let's make three and bump him to 20 million because I'm nice. So after10 discs worth he has sold 20 million of them (that's assuming the alleged soundscan scams he was part of were false) while someone like Nelly sells 19 million discs with 4 albums.
I dare someone to show Jay Z as a top ten moneymaking artist any year from '97 to '06, because I've never seen him there.
His label was able to make Memphis Bleek sell platinum.. that's great marketing. I don't think we can argue that he's been able to generate record sales, maybe not as many as Nelly or Eminem, but he's got other ventures like the clothing line that was really successful with Rockefella. The dude is a great businessman. I'll give him that. As an artist, he's average. He's an average east coast rapper, he's an AZ level rapper, talent wise.
I was referring to his sales alone as an artist. He does well but he presents himself to be much higher than he really is, and the media maintains that illusion. Just like with Timberlake or Beyonce, the way they talked about those artists when their albums came out you'd think they went diamond, when they were far from it.
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Today: Jay-Z >>> Eminem.
There could not be another emcee like Jigga, no matter how hard dudes try. Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc. Dude's NOT as great as everyone TRIES to make him out to be. Dude fell off after his first album and just continues to sink lower and lower. People have the nerve to diss someone like Cam'Ron for rapping non-sensical shit, but will be quick to give Eminem a pass for making a song like "Ass Like That." LOL. Dude's garbage.
In their prime's: Jigga > Eminem.
That "Renegade" track was a bunch of hype. You would hope that Eminem, as an emcee, would have crafted a beat that he knew he could rip.
As Business Men: Jigga >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eminem
Roc-A-Wear (though not Jay's sole creation) shit's all over Shady Wear (LMAO. Who wears that shit?). Roc-A-Fella (and now Def Jam) shit's on Shady.
Take away Slim Shady LP, Eminem is just another rapper that makes a catchy first single but follows up with mediocre albums.
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Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc.
LMAO!...How embarrassing.
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Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc.
LMAO!...How embarrassing.
Yes it is embarrassing for emcee's like Ras Kass and Kweli. They have amazing skills, but you'd be damned to hear them get the credit they deserve for it on a regular basis.
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Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc.
LMAO!...How embarrassing.
Yes it is embarrassing for emcee's like Ras Kass and Kweli. They have amazing skills, but you'd be damned to hear them get the credit they deserve for it on a regular basis.
Yeah Ras Kass is the shit and I dont care what anyone says. Dude is amazing and deserves sooooo nuch more credit
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Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc.
LMAO!...How embarrassing.
Yes it is embarrassing for emcee's like Ras Kass and Kweli. They have amazing skills, but you'd be damned to hear them get the credit they deserve for it on a regular basis.
Yeah Ras Kass is the shit and I dont care what anyone says. Dude is amazing and deserves sooooo nuch more credit
But he never will. He usually gets tagged as another underground rapper, a great rapper with wack ass beats, or a racist.
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"Ras Kass king of the west acknowledge this, or get a piece of the rock like meteorologists"
Dude is raw
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Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc.
LMAO!...How embarrassing.
Yes it is embarrassing for emcee's like Ras Kass and Kweli. They have amazing skills, but you'd be damned to hear them get the credit they deserve for it on a regular basis.
They have amazing skill, but they never were anywhere NEAR the charisma or significance of Eminem in his prime...Kweli is on some complete other shit, with his conscious rap, you know most people don't eat that, and Ras Kass just has a flow that, sadly, isn't really catchy amongst the mainstream...You're out of it man, just slap them chins...PeACe
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Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc.
LMAO!...How embarrassing.
Yes it is embarrassing for emcee's like Ras Kass and Kweli. They have amazing skills, but you'd be damned to hear them get the credit they deserve for it on a regular basis.
They have amazing skill, but they never were anywhere NEAR the charisma or significance of Eminem in his prime...Kweli is on some complete other shit, with his conscious rap, you know most people don't eat that, and Ras Kass just has a flow that, sadly, isn't really catchy amongst the mainstream...You're out of it man, just slap them chins...PeACe
doesnt matter pound for pound ras kass could easily hang with eminem and i think he would beat him in a battle
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Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc.
LMAO!...How embarrassing.
Yes it is embarrassing for emcee's like Ras Kass and Kweli. They have amazing skills, but you'd be damned to hear them get the credit they deserve for it on a regular basis.
They have amazing skill, but they never were anywhere NEAR the charisma or significance of Eminem in his prime...Kweli is on some complete other shit, with his conscious rap, you know most people don't eat that, and Ras Kass just has a flow that, sadly, isn't really catchy amongst the mainstream...You're out of it man, just slap them chins...PeACe
doesnt matter pound for pound ras kass could easily hang with eminem and i think he would beat him in a battle
Ras Kass is a great lyricist...Eminem is more of a battle rapper and is much better at putting together songs. Despite all that, Ras Kass has amazing talent, he's one of the greatest westcoast lyricists ever...PeACe
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Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc.
LMAO!...How embarrassing.
Yes it is embarrassing for emcee's like Ras Kass and Kweli. They have amazing skills, but you'd be damned to hear them get the credit they deserve for it on a regular basis.
They have amazing skill, but they never were anywhere NEAR the charisma or significance of Eminem in his prime...Kweli is on some complete other shit, with his conscious rap, you know most people don't eat that, and Ras Kass just has a flow that, sadly, isn't really catchy amongst the mainstream...You're out of it man, just slap them chins...PeACe
doesnt matter pound for pound ras kass could easily hang with eminem and i think he would beat him in a battle
Ras Kass is a great lyricist...Eminem is more of a battle rapper and is much better at putting together songs. Despite all that, Ras Kass has amazing talent, he's one of the greatest westcoast lyricists ever...PeACe
its hard to pick one or another if your comparing them both in their primes, amazing talent
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Ras Kass's inability to make songs that appeal to the general public is what holds him down. Definitely a lyrical giant though. Just listening to Soul On Ice is an experience.
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Ras Kass's inability to make songs that appeal to the general public is what holds him down. Definitely a lyrical giant though. Just listening to Soul On Ice is an experience.
neway ne1 can hook up that album, i havnt heard it in days
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They have amazing skill, but they never were anywhere NEAR the charisma or significance of Eminem in his prime...Kweli is on some complete other shit, with his conscious rap, you know most people don't eat that, and Ras Kass just has a flow that, sadly, isn't really catchy amongst the mainstream...You're out of it man, just slap them chins...PeACe
Like I said, change the skin color, you'd be singing a different tune (instead of Dreidel Dreidel Dreidel).
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Ras Kass's inability to make songs that appeal to the general public is what holds him down. Definitely a lyrical giant though. Just listening to Soul On Ice is an experience.
neway ne1 can hook up that album, i havnt heard it in days
I'm on it, like Sparegeez mom.
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They have amazing skill, but they never were anywhere NEAR the charisma or significance of Eminem in his prime...Kweli is on some complete other shit, with his conscious rap, you know most people don't eat that, and Ras Kass just has a flow that, sadly, isn't really catchy amongst the mainstream...You're out of it man, just slap them chins...PeACe
Like I said, change the skin color, you'd be singing a different tune (instead of Dreidel Dreidel Dreidel).
Slap them chins, son...
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Go do the Horah.
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Go do the Horah.
*Does the horah*
Slap them chins, son...
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*locates a chin, but not chins*
*slaps a yamakah off NIKs head*
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*SGV realizes Sccit don't wear no yamacha*
*Finds his second chin*
*Slaps that shit*
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Jay-Z just uses this retirement thing as a marketing strategy to sell more records.
Actually, he's mostly using it as an opportunity to play HNIC more than ever before as Prez of Def Jam, which he does exceptionally well even more than rapping.
dude has one of the albums of the year on his camp in fishscale and ain't even put out another vid 4 the album , and he's continueing the line of fucking method man over welcome 2 death jam
LMAO at Jay doin it well, then why has all of his artists flopped? he´s not been involved in 1 successful project other then Rihanna´s new album. Mariah was La,Jeezy was LA,Ne-Yo was LA,Kanye did his own thing without Jay overlooking shit. so how has he done it well? the artists he´s been responsible since becoming president is Bleek,the YG`s and that other dumb fuck bitch that couldn´t sing if her life depended on it. and guess what they all have in common? extremely low sales...............
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It was always obvoius Jay would come back, everyone knew he would. TBA was a dope album, in my opinion his second best, and it was an album that finally made me realize how dope Jay is. See, i was listening to hiphop when Reasonable Doubt came out, and there is no way it was a classic, not until it was forced on us many years later. Dope album, but not classic.
And to whoever said Em would be like Talib or Ras if his skin was darker, do you even listen to music??????????? Ras kass is one of my all-time favourite rappers(SOul on Ice is TOP 5 for me), but its obvious he is horrible when he attempts to make commercially viable songs. Talib is tight as well, but inconsistent with a delivery that the average fan can't get down with.
At their peaks, of course Eminem is the better lyricist than Jay. He did shit noone had ever thougbt of, had his own style. However, Em has fallen off WAY HARDER than Jay has. Both rappers are inconsistent with their albums, but Jay's last album was far better than Em's last one.
THe thing with Ras, Jay, and Em is, Jay is the only one who doesn't make wack music the majority of the time nowadays.
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It was always obvoius Jay would come back, everyone knew he would. TBA was a dope album, in my opinion his second best, and it was an album that finally made me realize how dope Jay is. See, i was listening to hiphop when Reasonable Doubt came out, and there is no way it was a classic, not until it was forced on us many years later. Dope album, but not classic.
And to whoever said Em would be like Talib or Ras if his skin was darker, do you even listen to music??????????? Ras kass is one of my all-time favourite rappers(SOul on Ice is TOP 5 for me), but its obvious he is horrible when he attempts to make commercially viable songs. Talib is tight as well, but inconsistent with a delivery that the average fan can't get down with.
At their peaks, of course Eminem is the better lyricist than Jay. He did shit noone had ever thougbt of, had his own style. However, Em has fallen off WAY HARDER than Jay has. Both rappers are inconsistent with their albums, but Jay's last album was far better than Em's last one.
THe thing with Ras, Jay, and Em is, Jay is the only one who doesn't make wack music the majority of the time nowadays.
I still think Jay is more inconsistant...Every one of Em's albums were solid until his last one, and even that had some good tracks...Em just declined when he knew he was done, if anything, Jay is the inconsistant one...PeACe
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Today: Jay-Z >>> Eminem.
There could not be another emcee like Jigga, no matter how hard dudes try. Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc. Dude's NOT as great as everyone TRIES to make him out to be. Dude fell off after his first album and just continues to sink lower and lower. People have the nerve to diss someone like Cam'Ron for rapping non-sensical shit, but will be quick to give Eminem a pass for making a song like "Ass Like That." LOL. Dude's garbage.
In their prime's: Jigga > Eminem.
That "Renegade" track was a bunch of hype. You would hope that Eminem, as an emcee, would have crafted a beat that he knew he could rip.
As Business Men: Jigga >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eminem
Roc-A-Wear (though not Jay's sole creation) shit's all over Shady Wear (LMAO. Who wears that shit?). Roc-A-Fella (and now Def Jam) shit's on Shady.
Take away Slim Shady LP, Eminem is just another rapper that makes a catchy first single but follows up with mediocre albums.
i disagree bitch Em in his prime >>>>>Jay-z in his prime....and please don't argue with me...we all have opinions....
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Today: Jay-Z >>> Eminem.
There could not be another emcee like Jigga, no matter how hard dudes try. Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc. Dude's NOT as great as everyone TRIES to make him out to be. Dude fell off after his first album and just continues to sink lower and lower. People have the nerve to diss someone like Cam'Ron for rapping non-sensical shit, but will be quick to give Eminem a pass for making a song like "Ass Like That." LOL. Dude's garbage.
In their prime's: Jigga > Eminem.
That "Renegade" track was a bunch of hype. You would hope that Eminem, as an emcee, would have crafted a beat that he knew he could rip.
As Business Men: Jigga >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eminem
Roc-A-Wear (though not Jay's sole creation) shit's all over Shady Wear (LMAO. Who wears that shit?). Roc-A-Fella (and now Def Jam) shit's on Shady.
Take away Slim Shady LP, Eminem is just another rapper that makes a catchy first single but follows up with mediocre albums.
If Eminem was darker he'd be hip hop's Prince or Jimi Hendrix. He was way too mainstream to be compared to Kweli. And his 2 albums after SSLP were far more artistic and sold a lot more. Stan and The Way I Am were brilliant records and the whole Eminem Show was filled great artistic expression. His few tracks on 8 Mile were also brilliant. The guy may not be Bob Dylan but no way was he a joke after SSLP. SSLP was 90% a comedy album showing off his fast flow and delivery. He really came out as an artist on the next two albums. I don't care what beat you hear his Renegade verse on. Hear it acapella if you want. The song wasn't even for Jay Z. It was a great verse plain and simple and Jay Z would have heard Em's verse first so even knowing what he was in for he couldn't top it.
You talk about Jat Z and Rocawear like Jay runs the day to day business. He came up with the idea with his buddies and was a key factor in it getting popular but the company has it's own funders and creative director and neither are Jay Z.
Shady Gear or whgatever it was called was the dumbest thing he could do business wise. It made his fans see him as corperate when he was popular for being anti-corperate in the eyes and minds of these white kids. He should have just worn whatever he wanted and the kids would have followed but the second he turned businessman they didn't like it. I remember reading about how the white Nike hat sales skyrocketed after Em started wearing them because white suburb kids wanted to look like him. Em would have benefitted more long term from not endorsing anything for profit.
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Today: Jay-Z >>> Eminem.
There could not be another emcee like Jigga, no matter how hard dudes try. Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc. Dude's NOT as great as everyone TRIES to make him out to be. Dude fell off after his first album and just continues to sink lower and lower. People have the nerve to diss someone like Cam'Ron for rapping non-sensical shit, but will be quick to give Eminem a pass for making a song like "Ass Like That." LOL. Dude's garbage.
In their prime's: Jigga > Eminem.
That "Renegade" track was a bunch of hype. You would hope that Eminem, as an emcee, would have crafted a beat that he knew he could rip.
As Business Men: Jigga >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eminem
Roc-A-Wear (though not Jay's sole creation) shit's all over Shady Wear (LMAO. Who wears that shit?). Roc-A-Fella (and now Def Jam) shit's on Shady.
Take away Slim Shady LP, Eminem is just another rapper that makes a catchy first single but follows up with mediocre albums.
i disagree bitch Em in his prime >>>>>Jay-z in his prime....and please don't argue with me...we all have opinions....
Jay-Z > Eminem
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eminem>>>>>>>>>>>jay-z...
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I agree with homie that said if Eminem was darker hed be another Rass Kass...Sad But True... :-\
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SGVs definitely got a point. Look at how he was marketed when he first came out in 99. They made a big deal about a white rapper that actually had skill. That's what put him on in the first place. It's sad but true. If he was brown or black, who knows where he'd be in the game. I still got a feeling his music would appeal to people regardless, but not on such a massive scale.
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SGVs definitely got a point. Look at how he was marketed when he first came out in 99. They made a big deal about a white rapper that actually had skill. That's what put him on in the first place. It's sad but true. If he was brown or black, who knows where he'd be in the game. I still got a feeling his music would appeal to people regardless, but not on such a massive scale.
yeah he definitly wouldnt be talked about like he is today, but maybe if he was black or brown his style would be different...he gets away with alot of Bull shit (I.e. just lose it) But then has powerful songs like "Toy Soldiers" so i think hed still make some kind of impact. he is the only guy that when his cd came out Fade To Black drop in sales DRAMATICALLY
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SGVs definitely got a point. Look at how he was marketed when he first came out in 99. They made a big deal about a white rapper that actually had skill. That's what put him on in the first place. It's sad but true. If he was brown or black, who knows where he'd be in the game. I still got a feeling his music would appeal to people regardless, but not on such a massive scale.
You can say that if he was darker he'd be another Snoop or Biggie, but to compare him to Rass Kass is ridiculous. White or not the songs were too catchy to be seen as Kweli type stuff. Even if he sold half of what he sold that still means 2x plus, 4x, plus 4x, plus 2, plus 2.5x platinum and still being near the top of rap record sales in the past few years.
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I think these Eminem fans don't realize what got him signed in the first place. It was Dre hearing his tape and being like "Damn this dude is White?" MEANING... If he probably would've been Black, it would not have been a big deal. To say Eminem would be another Ras Kass is NOT far off. Eminem would never have had the chance to make the songs he makes now, had Dre never signed him. He'd still be making songs like "Any Man." Dre's guidance is what brought him along... so miss me with that "Ras Kass can't make songs like Eminem" bullshit. Before Dre, Em was your typical Underground emcee. With the right machine, the right guidance, the right MARKETING scheme (White emcee with skill), he blew up. Take away his White skin, I highly doubt he would've ever been signed. HENCE, he would've been another Ras Kass. Pay attention people.
Shallow, I brought up Roc-A-Wear as proof that no matter what Jigga puts his hands in, it's successful. Whether he ran Rocawear or not, Shady Gear was and still is pale in comparison to such a clothing line. Jigga never put his name on something so garbage.
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I think these Eminem fans don't realize what got him signed in the first place. It was Dre hearing his tape and being like "Damn this dude is White?" MEANING... If he probably would've been Black, it would not have been a big deal. To say Eminem would be another Ras Kass is NOT far off. Eminem would never have had the chance to make the songs he makes now, had Dre never signed him. He'd still be making songs like "Any Man." Dre's guidance is what brought him along... so miss me with that "Ras Kass can't make songs like Eminem" bullshit. Before Dre, Em was your typical Underground emcee. With the right machine, the right guidance, the right MARKETING scheme (White emcee with skill), he blew up. Take away his White skin, I highly doubt he would've ever been signed. HENCE, he would've been another Ras Kass. Pay attention people.
Shallow, I brought up Roc-A-Wear as proof that no matter what Jigga puts his hands in, it's successful. Whether he ran Rocawear or not, Shady Gear was and still is pale in comparison to such a clothing line. Jigga never put his name on something so garbage.
ter
You're an idiot, that's not the story at all. Dre heard Eminem's shit and had no clue he was white...He said it himself, he was susprised as hell when he did finally find out he was white, after already showing interest...LMAO@the comparison of Eminem and Ras Kass...You moron, most of the "Slim Shady LP" (which is the record that Em blew up off) was recorded BEFORE Em met Dre...Stop making up shit, you really don't deserve posting privaleges with the stupid shit you say... :-X
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Today: Jay-Z >>> Eminem.
not really fair considering eminem isn't putting out music right now
Eminem, if his skin was darker, would've been another Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, etc. Dude's NOT as great as everyone TRIES to make him out to be.
that's a 'what-if' that will never be known. here is what is known, Eminem is as great as everyone makes him out to be
Facts:
eminem killed Biggy on his own track
eminem killed Jay-z on his own tack
eminem has killed everyone as a matter of fact on everyone else's tracks
eminem is more versitile with his song writing
eminem is the first rap artist to win an oscar for an original song
eminem has 2 critically acclaimed classics
eminem has an underground acclaimed classic
eminem can write,produce, engineer,perform and sell his own music (Prince status)
eminem music reaches more than just the african american comunity
eminem is known and accepted more in the international comunity
an eminem record will always be more anticipated than a jay-z record
Dude fell off after his first album and just continues to sink lower and lower
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on infinite and sslp eminem was a lyrical assassin.
mmlp eminem managed to expand his artistic credibility by writing songs like stan and started talking about issues as apposed to snorting coke with marsions
mms, eminem expanded this theory more by delving more into his personal life , and rather than trying to preach to the dienfranchised black comunity he spoke to his own comunity and became more of the voice for the disenfrachised white kids across america, but at the same time not alienating the african american community (something the beasty boys failed to do)
encore, tried to recreate the mms again....can be called a flop but still had 4 or 5 tracks that said something
so if you want to say eminem gradually fell off because he didn't deliver tounge twisting mind benders like he did on infinite and sslp.....u can say that. but artistically he's grown from album to album while stalling at encore. maybe that's why he's taking time off to reinvent himself or to escape the pressures of trying to outdue himself. but like shallow said eminem is more than just a one trick pony. eminem has depth, dimensions something jay-z doesn't .
People have the nerve to diss someone like Cam'Ron for rapping non-sensical shit, but will be quick to give Eminem a pass for making a song like "Ass Like That." LOL. Dude's garbage
how many songs has eminem put out like ass like that? like 3 or 4. and that's through out his career. now how many songs has cam put out this year like that .....more than that. i'm sorry but if more than half of your catelouge is non-sensical ,like cam's is, you're not an artist....you're just another Sam bo dancing around eating water melon for a white man. THAT'S GARBAGE.
In their prime's: Jigga > Eminem.
opinion.
That "Renegade" track was a bunch of hype. You would hope that Eminem, as an emcee, would have crafted a beat that he knew he could rip.
so you're saying eminem produced that track with an intention to make himself look better than jay-z?
here's two things that make what you just said detrimental to your argument.
1. you're basically saying that jay-z isn't versitile enough to rap over an unfamiliar beat. if infact jay-z was the better artist, as you have stated you beleive. he should be able to shine over eminem on ANY beat. KRS could do it, Pac could do it, Biggy could do it, hell even Pun could do it. and again i'll bring up the track "dead wrong" eminem SHINNED on that track....and that's NY grimmy to the fullest that comlimented big to the fullest , but em was still able to shine , and arguably outshinned biggy. now that speaks for eminem's versitility . you can make that track an accapella and em still had that nicer verse.
2. how is the track just hype? it was never promoted, it wasn't marketed, and hell it basicallly hidden at the end of the cd, it wasn't intended on being as memorable as it was. so basically what you're implying is that eminem is able to take a track from intended filler to memorable status....that's pretty damn good for a 'garbage' artist who 'fell off after his first album'.
As Business Men: Jigga >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eminem
Roc-A-Wear (though not Jay's sole creation) shit's all over Shady Wear (LMAO. Who wears that shit?). Roc-A-Fella (and now Def Jam) shit's on Shady.
i agree that jay-z is better at making business ventures for himself, but it's not like em isn't doing that bad for himself outside of rap either:
afterall ,after eminem ,raps 2nd biggest name is on HIS lable
afterall, 8 mile is the highest grossing hip hop related movie of all time
jay-z is a former drug dealer , i'd expect him to be able to hustle better than em, but financially it's not like one makes THAT much more than the other
Take away Slim Shady LP, Eminem is just another rapper that makes a catchy first single but follows up with mediocre albums.
u say that like jay-z doesn't have mediocre albums,lol. as a matter of fact he's got 2 albums worse than encore
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I brought up Roc-A-Wear as proof that no matter what Jigga puts his hands in, it's successful.
marinate on jay-z's career for a minute and rethink that statement
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ter
You're an idiot, that's not the story at all. Dre heard Eminem's shit and had no clue he was white...He said it himself, he was susprised as hell when he did finally find out he was white, after already showing interest...LMAO@the comparison of Eminem and Ras Kass...You moron, most of the "Slim Shady LP" (which is the record that Em blew up off) was recorded BEFORE Em met Dre...Stop making up shit, you really don't deserve posting privaleges with the stupid shit you say... :-X
LMAO @ You always getting so hurt. As you would say "You're on my dick." Nonetheless, Dre heard the tape, met Em and was shocked to see a white dude. White dude who can spit = $$$$. His spitting made Dre look, his skin made Dre pay attention and stick with him. Nothing stupid. Soley truth. It's only stupid when you get hurt.
Jake: Again, I would hope Eminem would hop on a track that has a verse by a dead man and would be able to write something hotter. It's not like Biggie can come back and re-do his verse. Em has a critically acclaimed good first Major release. He has a bunch of Media hyped albums that follow and one Underground LP that gets the "Classic" stamp by kids who heard the album years down the line AFTER they were fans of Eminem. Btw, The Black Albums anticipation >>>>>> Any Eminem record (and Em was on The Black Album.) No doubt about it, if Jay and Em both make another solo record, people are going to want to hear that Jigga album more. Jigga doesn't need depth cuz he's not that type of rapper. He's not a Chuck D. He's not a KRS. He's a street cat. He's a hustler. He's a club dude. He's a grown man making music that anyone can feel. Don't give me this bullshit "oh Em is showing depth, oh he's growing up." Dude's like 34, he should've been grown by Dre found him. He had to have been around 26-27. His growing up can be credited to his getting that deal, which, in my eyes, would've never came about had he NOT been White.
Anyway, Em crafting a beat that will make it easier for him to rock is the key thing. If he would've made it a beat that was intune to something Eminem would generally rock. Em never had a chance like that before. Jigga letting him get on a record was great for both parties. It's Jigga putting on the latest big thing in Hip Hop and it's Em rockin' with the biggest thing in Hip Hop. LMAO @ The filler statement. Someone putting Em on a track, only to make it a filler track would be insane. Jigga, Dame and Biggs knew that putting Em on your album would create the contraversy of "Who will rock this track iller?" But, I personally think Jay came off hotter. Just like you wrote: OPINION. More than likely, if Nas would've never said that line, people PROBABLY would be singing a different tune. Again, opinion.
Jay runs Def Jam. Em runs Shady. Em's not sole the reason behind 50... Iovine and Dre are. It's an everyday thing for 50's name to be brought up and Dre or Jimmy's name be directly attached to it. Can't say the same for Em. Something soley put out by Em would be Obie and D-12. Put them against a Young Jeezy... Who did a better job? Jigga and Def Jam. If you want to bring up 50 though, match him with Kanye. Jay's as responsible for Kanye as Em is for 50.
u say that like jay-z doesn't have mediocre albums,lol. as a matter of fact he's got 2 albums worse than encore
Opinion.
Lastly: Of course Amil, what other disasters does Jay have? Bleek doesn't do Plat, but he at least hits Gold. Jay's never had to play Willie Wonka to get people to buy his artists records.
But, since you like to say it so much: Opinion.
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Jake: Again, I would hope Eminem would hop on a track that has a verse by a dead man and would be able to write something hotter. It's not like Biggie can come back and re-do his verse.
that's fair it's not like biggy can come back and make it better, but it's not like em jumped on just any track, he jumped on a hot biggy track. he couldn't just throw out anythign, it's like vince carter doing a dunk after dominque wilkins....vince carter is a great dunk and so was 'nique .....but not just anyone can do what nique could do , you'd have to be pretty fuckin good to at least hang with him, same here with em/big. so it can be said em can hang with the best of them easily , he's not some garbage emcee. i don't think i've heard jay try to mess with a biggy track like dead wrong. do you feel what i'm saying? if jay can't bring himself up to speed on a track like renegade (which was made before he spat on it) but eminem can on a track like dead wrong....waht is that saying?
Em has a critically acclaimed good first Major release. He has a bunch of Media hyped albums that follow and one Underground LP that gets the "Classic" stamp by kids who heard the album years down the line AFTER they were fans of Eminem.
Em has three critically acclaimed albums, the Slim Shady Lp, The Marshall mathers LP, and The Eminem Show two of which are featured in rollingstone's 500 greatest albums of all time list (which was filled with mostly albums from the 60's and 70's) Spin, Blender, And Many Music Critics Praise all three of these works. encore isn't going to get any love because it simply wasn't up to par and infinite gets love from all those underground/backpacking hip hop heads. so it's not like he has a bad back catelouge , he's got 1 bad albums in how many years of being out? 9 almost 10 years that's not a bad standard to live by. even if encore is his last work, it's not likehe's not capable of making hot music.
Btw, The Black Albums anticipation >>>>>> Any Eminem record (and Em was on The Black Album.)
black album 1st week sales=463,000
encore 1st weeks sales=711,000 (and not to mention his first 2 albums had platnum 1st week totals)
in a time of downloadable albums eminem looks like he's more anticipated
No doubt about it, if Jay and Em both make another solo record, people are going to want to hear that Jigga album more.
maybe amist all the barflies, but the numbers don't lie. care to recant your statement ?
Jigga doesn't need depth cuz he's not that type of rapper.
all artists need depth, if you can't relate to the people then you're just a card board cut out , a product, a sam bo, a tool of the industry . you're no artist
He's not a Chuck D. He's not a KRS. He's a street cat. He's a hustler. He's a club dude. He's a grown man making music that anyone can feel.
he use to be a street cat...
while jay-z rendezvouz in france for months and rolls around in the hamptons, while chuck d and KRS are still in the street
and being a grown man and being a club dude are two different things
Don't give me this bullshit "oh Em is showing depth, oh he's growing up." Dude's like 34, he should've been grown by Dre found him. He had to have been around 26-27. His growing up can be credited to his getting that deal, which, in my eyes, would've never came about had he NOT been White.
1. i will give you taht 'bullshit', no one stops growing up til they die . em moved passed partying and kid shit and has gone through marriage and children, something jay-z hasn't gone through he's stuck in his 20's when dude's knocking at 40....sgv that's not a good thing to be remember that. eminem can speak to the club crowd but he can still speak to them once they've left the club, and unless you're a bar fly you spend more time at home then at the club
2. em growing up is more contributed to his daughter and a lesser extent kim. growth musically can be atributed to dre signing him showing a few production and business tips. em couldn't get a deal white , that was the problem, he was just as good as anybody but no one would sing him becuase he was white....em was the 'great white hope' in hip hop music. dre signing em was one of the biggest gambles in his career. flop was predicted, they were just hoping for mediocre success.
Anyway, Em crafting a beat that will make it easier for him to rock is the key thing. If he would've made it a beat that was intune to something Eminem would generally rock. Em never had a chance like that before. Jigga letting him get on a record was great for both parties
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eminem was already credible and selling well ...so i don't get what you're trying to say by 'jigga letting him get on a record' .....em was doing jay a bigger favor when you think about it
It's Jigga putting on the latest big thing in Hip Hop and it's Em rockin' with the biggest thing in Hip Hop.
eminem was the biggest thing in hip hop , i don't think jay-z has ever been the biggest thing in hip hop. he's always been "one of" he's always been in the commercial shadow of some one else, hell even his woman makes him a shadow
LMAO @ The filler statement. Someone putting Em on a track, only to make it a filler track would be insane.
no one hyped it that much before it dropped, after it dropped is when people started talking
Jigga, Dame and Biggs knew that putting Em on your album would create the contraversy of "Who will rock this track iller?"
by you implying this you realize you're admitting that eminem is more than 'garbage'
if Nas would've never said that line, people PROBABLY would be singing a different tune.
people on here , on sohh.com, and in many publications were saying eminem came off nicer way before Nas said it. lol
Jay runs Def Jam. Em runs Shady. Em's not sole the reason behind 50... Iovine and Dre are. It's an everyday thing for 50's name to be brought up and Dre or Jimmy's name be directly attached to it. Can't say the same for Em. Something soley put out by Em would be Obie and D-12. Put them against a Young Jeezy... Who did a better job? Jigga and Def Jam. If you want to bring up 50 though, match him with Kanye. Jay's as responsible for Kanye as Em is for 50.
i hate 50 cent,but 50 credits (credited now) dre AND em for building him. and yeah you can credit jay for kanye ,but em still comes out on top here
obie/d-12 or young jeezy....let's see what happens AFTER young jeez drops another album and we'll talk
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obies last album is better than any roc-albums put out lately imo
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why is everyone comparing eminem to jay-z ? eminem was a huge fan of jay-z before he hit... and alot of eminems early shit, sounded alot like jay-z's...
"And I could give a fuck what category you place me
Long as when I'm pushing up daisies and gone
As long as you place me amongst one of them greats
When I hit the heavenly gates I'll be cool beside Jay-Z"
both eminem and jay-z still release dope tracks... it's just a shame that eminem doesnt release alot of dope tracks anymore.... but i still rate him as a great mc...
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But, I personally think Jay came off hotter. Just like you wrote: OPINION.
That's what it comes down to...Your opinions are RETARDED. By the way, Em requestedly re-did the "Renegade" beat for Jay-Z so that it would fit his style better... ::) LMAO@creating a beat with the intention of rocking it better than whoever else gets on it...WOW, THE WAY YOU THINK IS PATHETIC. If Rakim got on "Renegades", he woulda' rocked it 10 times better than Jay...Eminem>>>>>>AZ>>>Jay-Z...PeACe
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I dont know how yall came to arguing about something that obvious, but without further ado, Ill say it loud and Ill say it proud: Eminem at his best wipes the floor with Jay-Z at his best.
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Jay-Z>>>>>>Em
Eminem was a lyrical assasin on his first few cd's but his last cd was TRASH!! Imo and his lyrics werent what they used to be....and Jay-Z sounds as good on the Black Album as he does on Reasonable Doubt IMO