West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on August 29, 2006, 01:12:50 AM
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Anything you want to learn you can just go get the books on your own, surf the internet, and ask people who know.
Now, if the point of school is having a certificate or degree to prove proficiency in a particular field, then rather than school, they should just have exams and other practical tests where people can prove their worth to a perspective employer.
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Very true. Especially the higher you go in education. You realize how much of it is beaurocratic BS.
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you only learn something if you're interested, no matter where
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especially MATH!! FUCKIN A MAN! Ive avoided it in college as long as I can but I finally couldnt dodge it nemore. Today was the first day of the semester :-\ Math is so pointless though, I am never gonna use this stupid shit ever, fuck math
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I use math on the daily...
I was getting low-ish math grades throughout school.. then i started on a computer course.. i had to retake the same maths test again that year.. i skipped these extra lessons for the whole year bar a bunch at the beginning and end.. so basically about 15 lessons.. and i passed it.. just coz i'd learned how to look at things right through other experiences..
IMO its not enough to teach someone something.. they have to know WHY. a twist on the old "teach a man to fish" thing
teaching a man to teach himself is one of the best skills you can do. my job today everything I do is self taught, and i'm learning daily.. and i've learned to find the information I need to get my job done.
i found that through my experiences that teaching style helps a great deal
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i've always have been good at math , that's why i will be bill gate's accountant when i get my masters from USC 8)
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I lied to my counselor when asked if I passed my math high school exit exam
some california test to get outta high school that went in effect a few years ago in order to graduate
I got in a situation somehow where the lady had to mark down something when filling out a paper about me
and instead of looking for proof that I passed she asked me and I said yes tho I failed
and in 9th grade my teacher was an idiot and would give us the answer
then in 10th grade I payed the kid in front of me $20 to write on little pieces of paper the answers to the final
pretty much because I missed class a few times a week
so I cheated through high school math, I don't know shit when it starts getting into algebra :-X
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Math is the reason it took me so long to transfer outta comm. college
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Yes it is bullshit. You could be a genius with no schooling and not get a job because you don't got a piece of paper.
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school is what u make it, i loved it, not cuz i learned shit, but you really learn your social skills there and how to have a face to face convo with whoever you want. bryan just hates it cuz he was always picked on :P
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school is a failing system. quarter of the kids learn bout illegitimate shit they can do n usually end up most likely in jail n the lucky smart ones become the big dope dealers n mob heads.
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school is a failing system. quarter of the kids learn bout illegitimate shit they can do n usually end up most likely in jail n the lucky smart ones become the big dope dealers n mob heads.
wtf?
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95%? I don't think so.
Just because you guys don't use adavance level math and sciences doesn't mean they aren't useful. They drive our technological industries. If Math and Science weren't taught in school then none of you would be on your PCs even posting these messages. Sure you can learn on your own, and I agree with Sik that theorhetically a person can take a high school level degree and enter most jobs by learning what they need to independantally rather than through College, but you can neve take away what direct competition can do for your learning as well peer study. You can learn a lot more by trying to one up your classmates or catch up and by working with them. Even outside of the school system is a lot easier to learn with a teacher of some sort than just by reading.
Infinite; how far do you think your knowledge and uderstand of Islam has come since learning from various Imams, as opposed from just reading yourself. Am organized governemt regulated system may not be perfect but I've yet to see a better way to teach the masses.
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school is a failing system. quarter of the kids learn bout illegitimate shit they can do n usually end up most likely in jail n the lucky smart ones become the big dope dealers n mob heads.
You're on to something.
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Infinite; how far do you think your knowledge and uderstand of Islam has come since learning from various Imams, as opposed from just reading yourself. Am organized governemt regulated system may not be perfect but I've yet to see a better way to teach the masses.
Read my opening thread again man. I didn't say everything had to be independant study, read it again, I said "or ask someone who knows".
And as far school and "teaching the masses", let's say 24 people all want to learn the same thing. So you would think if they all chipped in and paid the teacher to teach them it would be less money then if you hired an individual private tutor. But even at the community colleges people are paying $500 dollars for classes, you could get your own tutor and get 1 on 1 attention for way cheaper than that; and the learning would be much more effective.
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i might hafta take stupid calculus if i want to go from college to a better university than the one im able to get into.
calc isn't even business related, i took another math course that was business related.
so friggin annoying; i hope i can pass it, last time i was gettin a 40% before i dropped it.
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school is a failing system. quarter of the kids learn bout illegitimate shit they can do n usually end up most likely in jail n the lucky smart ones become the big dope dealers n mob heads.
no disrespect, but fuck that was stupid
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I use math on the daily...
I was getting low-ish math grades throughout school.. then i started on a computer course.. i had to retake the same maths test again that year.. i skipped these extra lessons for the whole year bar a bunch at the beginning and end.. so basically about 15 lessons.. and i passed it.. just coz i'd learned how to look at things right through other experiences..
IMO its not enough to teach someone something.. they have to know WHY. a twist on the old "teach a man to fish" thing
teaching a man to teach himself is one of the best skills you can do. my job today everything I do is self taught, and i'm learning daily.. and i've learned to find the information I need to get my job done.
i found that through my experiences that teaching style helps a great deal
95%? I don't think so.
Just because you guys don't use adavance level math and sciences doesn't mean they aren't useful. They drive our technological industries. If Math and Science weren't taught in school then none of you would be on your PCs even posting these messages. Sure you can learn on your own, and I agree with Sik that theorhetically a person can take a high school level degree and enter most jobs by learning what they need to independantally rather than through College, but you can neve take away what direct competition can do for your learning as well peer study. You can learn a lot more by trying to one up your classmates or catch up and by working with them. Even outside of the school system is a lot easier to learn with a teacher of some sort than just by reading.
Infinite; how far do you think your knowledge and uderstand of Islam has come since learning from various Imams, as opposed from just reading yourself. Am organized governemt regulated system may not be perfect but I've yet to see a better way to teach the masses.
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I'll break it down pretty simple, and I have some perspective cuz I graduated from college 3 years ago. A piece of paper that says Diploma doesn't annoint someone a genius. It doesn't mean any one person is more intelligent than any other. Some of the most witty, intelligent people I've known barely graduated high school and never set foot in college.
But here's what I realized what school teaches you, ESPECIALLY higher education (college) - responsibility. When I was a freshman and I lived in a dorm, there was 52 other dudes on my floor. We were all 18 years old and living hundreds of miles away from home. Shit was the funnest time I ever had in my life. At ANY given time some cats were drinkin, smokin, playing video games, hookin up, blah blah blah. The catch to all this fun was that you had to not only go to class without mommy telling you to, but you had to walk away from all of the fun everybody was having because you had to study if you wanted to stay there. After that 1st semester, some dudes on my floor weren't making grades, flunked out and left. Now make no mistake, I was out all night having the time of my life, but the catch was I was one of the few that would stay out getting fucked up and still make it to class at 8 in the morning.
Out of everybody on my floor, I only knew 3 of them that had graduated along with me. I wasn't smarter than all those dudes, I just made sure I handled my business. And thats what school teaches you - it's that no matter what you do, you gotta take care of business. If you're all play and no work, you're likely not going to do much with yourself. I didn't enjoy the vast majority of classes I took, most professors were arrogant assholes, and I retained VERY LITTLE of what I learned. That's how its set up - 6 weeks of memorization, regurgitating that info and then repeating the cycle again. But I hung in there and got my 120 credit hours and it was both the most fun and rewarding thing I ever did.
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Infinite; how far do you think your knowledge and uderstand of Islam has come since learning from various Imams, as opposed from just reading yourself. Am organized governemt regulated system may not be perfect but I've yet to see a better way to teach the masses.
Read my opening thread again man. I didn't say everything had to be independant study, read it again, I said "or ask someone who knows".
And as far school and "teaching the masses", let's say 24 people all want to learn the same thing. So you would think if they all chipped in and paid the teacher to teach them it would be less money then if you hired an individual private tutor. But even at the community colleges people are paying $500 dollars for classes, you could get your own tutor and get 1 on 1 attention for way cheaper than that; and the learning would be much more effective.
Still that someone who knows has to have some sort of credentials for you to take him seriously or not question him (or her) with every lesson. If an Imam tells you what the Quran says on this matter or that matter and quotes the verse you're less likely to run straight to the book shelf and verify it. If CWalker gives you the exact same information you're checking up on it right away. We don't have time to question every little thing. That doesn't mean we have to follow it blindly or refuse to believe a teacher is a wrong but a matter of trust is essential to learn faster.
As for College classes it still takes time and effort to organize hundreds of people that would be in a lecture hall and get them to come together and pay the teacher (who would need ceredentials) and decide meeting places and times and what other things they may want to learn. It's simply impracticle. I challenge to you try it with out going through the organized realm of education. See if you can get 100 people that all want to be Engineers and need to learn Integral Calculus, then find someone with out University credentials to teach that to them and set up a pay system and a meeting time and place for the classes. See if it's possible to teach something like that and round up the students by going outside of the system. It's a rhetorical challenge because you could never get 100 people to agree to learn from an uncertified Calculus teacher, you'd have to start small and make sure the few in the beginning classes walk away with more knowledge than they would have if they took it at a school, and then you'd need testimonies to convince others. You'd have to book places to have the meetings and make sure everyone is getting texts and everyone is paying. You'd have to quit work because the endeavor would take up all your time and to make that worth your time you'd have to justify it by generating money for yourself, and then you'd realize that each student would probably have to shell out about 500 a piece anyway just to cover the teacher, you, and the expenses. 30 meetings at about 200 dollars a rental for a room that will hold 100 people will come out to 6,000. Let's say the whole course goes 15 weeks to give kids to to learn and study the info and that means a quarter year is gone for the teacher which will need at least a third of an average salary to keep around which will be atleast 12,000 dollars and an extra 5,000 for a TA which may be needed if the class is that large. You'd have to make up the money you'd lose from not working which is another 10,000 atleast and texts etc, which may be another 3 to 4 thousand. So a total would come to just under 40,000 to run this class and I'm being generous. That's 400 a student. 300 if you do it all for free. It simply won't work because either way the kids aren't saving much and they don't have access to all the research facilities a University would give them like computer labs, libraries, and senior level students with experience. Let's not even get into trying to find a skilled Calculus teacher who didn't go to University.
Organized forms of anything need to exist for something to strive. Where would Islam be with out the Mosques?
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Very true. Especially the higher you go in education. You realize how much of it is beaurocratic BS.
yeah know whatchu mean, 3 years into my degree now and i find all you need is yourself and a book, tutorials and lectures just turn into nap times...
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Infinite; how far do you think your knowledge and uderstand of Islam has come since learning from various Imams, as opposed from just reading yourself. Am organized governemt regulated system may not be perfect but I've yet to see a better way to teach the masses.
Read my opening thread again man. I didn't say everything had to be independant study, read it again, I said "or ask someone who knows".
And as far school and "teaching the masses", let's say 24 people all want to learn the same thing. So you would think if they all chipped in and paid the teacher to teach them it would be less money then if you hired an individual private tutor. But even at the community colleges people are paying $500 dollars for classes, you could get your own tutor and get 1 on 1 attention for way cheaper than that; and the learning would be much more effective.
Still that someone who knows has to have some sort of credentials for you to take him seriously or not question him (or her) with every lesson. If an Imam tells you what the Quran says on this matter or that matter and quotes the verse you're less likely to run straight to the book shelf and verify it. If CWalker gives you the exact same information you're checking up on it right away. We don't have time to question every little thing. That doesn't mean we have to follow it blindly or refuse to believe a teacher is a wrong but a matter of trust is essential to learn faster.
As for College classes it still takes time and effort to organize hundreds of people that would be in a lecture hall and get them to come together and pay the teacher (who would need ceredentials) and decide meeting places and times and what other things they may want to learn. It's simply impracticle. I challenge to you try it with out going through the organized realm of education. See if you can get 100 people that all want to be Engineers and need to learn Integral Calculus, then find someone with out University credentials to teach that to them and set up a pay system and a meeting time and place for the classes. See if it's possible to teach something like that and round up the students by going outside of the system. It's a rhetorical challenge because you could never get 100 people to agree to learn from an uncertified Calculus teacher, you'd have to start small and make sure the few in the beginning classes walk away with more knowledge than they would have if they took it at a school, and then you'd need testimonies to convince others. You'd have to book places to have the meetings and make sure everyone is getting texts and everyone is paying. You'd have to quit work because the endeavor would take up all your time and to make that worth your time you'd have to justify it by generating money for yourself, and then you'd realize that each student would probably have to shell out about 500 a piece anyway just to cover the teacher, you, and the expenses. 30 meetings at about 200 dollars a rental for a room that will hold 100 people will come out to 6,000. Let's say the whole course goes 15 weeks to give kids to to learn and study the info and that means a quarter year is gone for the teacher which will need at least a third of an average salary to keep around which will be atleast 12,000 dollars and an extra 5,000 for a TA which may be needed if the class is that large. You'd have to make up the money you'd lose from not working which is another 10,000 atleast and texts etc, which may be another 3 to 4 thousand. So a total would come to just under 40,000 to run this class and I'm being generous. That's 400 a student. 300 if you do it all for free. It simply won't work because either way the kids aren't saving much and they don't have access to all the research facilities a University would give them like computer labs, libraries, and senior level students with experience. Let's not even get into trying to find a skilled Calculus teacher who didn't go to University.
Organized forms of anything need to exist for something to strive. Where would Islam be with out the Mosques?
Again I request that you re-read what I have previously written. I said that even a private tutor is cheaper than paying for college classes; you didn't read that part, so you went on and on about how long it would take to gather up a class full of students.
As for using my Islamic studies as any kind of an example, that's really a waste of time, because I've never gone to any Islamic course, and never paid for any Islamic teaching, and yet I know more about Islamic studies then any of the subjects I spent years going to school for. So if you want to use Islam as an example, your only proving my own argument and destroying your own.
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Infinite; how far do you think your knowledge and uderstand of Islam has come since learning from various Imams, as opposed from just reading yourself. Am organized governemt regulated system may not be perfect but I've yet to see a better way to teach the masses.
Read my opening thread again man. I didn't say everything had to be independant study, read it again, I said "or ask someone who knows".
And as far school and "teaching the masses", let's say 24 people all want to learn the same thing. So you would think if they all chipped in and paid the teacher to teach them it would be less money then if you hired an individual private tutor. But even at the community colleges people are paying $500 dollars for classes, you could get your own tutor and get 1 on 1 attention for way cheaper than that; and the learning would be much more effective.
Still that someone who knows has to have some sort of credentials for you to take him seriously or not question him (or her) with every lesson. If an Imam tells you what the Quran says on this matter or that matter and quotes the verse you're less likely to run straight to the book shelf and verify it. If CWalker gives you the exact same information you're checking up on it right away. We don't have time to question every little thing. That doesn't mean we have to follow it blindly or refuse to believe a teacher is a wrong but a matter of trust is essential to learn faster.
As for College classes it still takes time and effort to organize hundreds of people that would be in a lecture hall and get them to come together and pay the teacher (who would need ceredentials) and decide meeting places and times and what other things they may want to learn. It's simply impracticle. I challenge to you try it with out going through the organized realm of education. See if you can get 100 people that all want to be Engineers and need to learn Integral Calculus, then find someone with out University credentials to teach that to them and set up a pay system and a meeting time and place for the classes. See if it's possible to teach something like that and round up the students by going outside of the system. It's a rhetorical challenge because you could never get 100 people to agree to learn from an uncertified Calculus teacher, you'd have to start small and make sure the few in the beginning classes walk away with more knowledge than they would have if they took it at a school, and then you'd need testimonies to convince others. You'd have to book places to have the meetings and make sure everyone is getting texts and everyone is paying. You'd have to quit work because the endeavor would take up all your time and to make that worth your time you'd have to justify it by generating money for yourself, and then you'd realize that each student would probably have to shell out about 500 a piece anyway just to cover the teacher, you, and the expenses. 30 meetings at about 200 dollars a rental for a room that will hold 100 people will come out to 6,000. Let's say the whole course goes 15 weeks to give kids to to learn and study the info and that means a quarter year is gone for the teacher which will need at least a third of an average salary to keep around which will be atleast 12,000 dollars and an extra 5,000 for a TA which may be needed if the class is that large. You'd have to make up the money you'd lose from not working which is another 10,000 atleast and texts etc, which may be another 3 to 4 thousand. So a total would come to just under 40,000 to run this class and I'm being generous. That's 400 a student. 300 if you do it all for free. It simply won't work because either way the kids aren't saving much and they don't have access to all the research facilities a University would give them like computer labs, libraries, and senior level students with experience. Let's not even get into trying to find a skilled Calculus teacher who didn't go to University.
Organized forms of anything need to exist for something to strive. Where would Islam be with out the Mosques?
Again I request that you re-read what I have previously written. I said that even a private tutor is cheaper than paying for college classes; you didn't read that part, so you went on and on about how long it would take to gather up a class full of students.
As for using my Islamic studies as any kind of an example, that's really a waste of time, because I've never gone to any Islamic course, and never paid for any Islamic teaching, and yet I know more about Islamic studies then any of the subjects I spent years going to school for. So if you want to use Islam as an example, your only proving my own argument and destroying your own.
bryan these are almost cult like tactics you're using during the debate club, what the fuck is wrong with you?
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Infinite; how far do you think your knowledge and uderstand of Islam has come since learning from various Imams, as opposed from just reading yourself. Am organized governemt regulated system may not be perfect but I've yet to see a better way to teach the masses.
Read my opening thread again man. I didn't say everything had to be independant study, read it again, I said "or ask someone who knows".
And as far school and "teaching the masses", let's say 24 people all want to learn the same thing. So you would think if they all chipped in and paid the teacher to teach them it would be less money then if you hired an individual private tutor. But even at the community colleges people are paying $500 dollars for classes, you could get your own tutor and get 1 on 1 attention for way cheaper than that; and the learning would be much more effective.
Still that someone who knows has to have some sort of credentials for you to take him seriously or not question him (or her) with every lesson. If an Imam tells you what the Quran says on this matter or that matter and quotes the verse you're less likely to run straight to the book shelf and verify it. If CWalker gives you the exact same information you're checking up on it right away. We don't have time to question every little thing. That doesn't mean we have to follow it blindly or refuse to believe a teacher is a wrong but a matter of trust is essential to learn faster.
As for College classes it still takes time and effort to organize hundreds of people that would be in a lecture hall and get them to come together and pay the teacher (who would need ceredentials) and decide meeting places and times and what other things they may want to learn. It's simply impracticle. I challenge to you try it with out going through the organized realm of education. See if you can get 100 people that all want to be Engineers and need to learn Integral Calculus, then find someone with out University credentials to teach that to them and set up a pay system and a meeting time and place for the classes. See if it's possible to teach something like that and round up the students by going outside of the system. It's a rhetorical challenge because you could never get 100 people to agree to learn from an uncertified Calculus teacher, you'd have to start small and make sure the few in the beginning classes walk away with more knowledge than they would have if they took it at a school, and then you'd need testimonies to convince others. You'd have to book places to have the meetings and make sure everyone is getting texts and everyone is paying. You'd have to quit work because the endeavor would take up all your time and to make that worth your time you'd have to justify it by generating money for yourself, and then you'd realize that each student would probably have to shell out about 500 a piece anyway just to cover the teacher, you, and the expenses. 30 meetings at about 200 dollars a rental for a room that will hold 100 people will come out to 6,000. Let's say the whole course goes 15 weeks to give kids to to learn and study the info and that means a quarter year is gone for the teacher which will need at least a third of an average salary to keep around which will be atleast 12,000 dollars and an extra 5,000 for a TA which may be needed if the class is that large. You'd have to make up the money you'd lose from not working which is another 10,000 atleast and texts etc, which may be another 3 to 4 thousand. So a total would come to just under 40,000 to run this class and I'm being generous. That's 400 a student. 300 if you do it all for free. It simply won't work because either way the kids aren't saving much and they don't have access to all the research facilities a University would give them like computer labs, libraries, and senior level students with experience. Let's not even get into trying to find a skilled Calculus teacher who didn't go to University.
Organized forms of anything need to exist for something to strive. Where would Islam be with out the Mosques?
Again I request that you re-read what I have previously written. I said that even a private tutor is cheaper than paying for college classes; you didn't read that part, so you went on and on about how long it would take to gather up a class full of students.
As for using my Islamic studies as any kind of an example, that's really a waste of time, because I've never gone to any Islamic course, and never paid for any Islamic teaching, and yet I know more about Islamic studies then any of the subjects I spent years going to school for. So if you want to use Islam as an example, your only proving my own argument and destroying your own.
You're not seeing my point. I'm talking about a massive amount of students. There are tens of thousands of kids that need to learn something like Integral Calculus and there aren't tens of thousands credible tutors, much less ones with out degrees. You are thinking in individually. YOU could learn Calculus by hiring a tutor. YOU could learn to be a better doctor by 4 years of living with, working with, and studying a doctor rather than 8 years of pre-med and med school. Society could not function like that. Order needs to be set up for the best possible results. I could learn more about Islam by independant study than a large percentage of Muslims but I understand that with out the organizations of the mosques that Islam simply would not reach and maintain the numbers it has reached and maintained over the years. If there never were mosques and Islam relied solely on the individuals desire to pursue knowledge of Islam it would be a religion that consists of only a fraction of the people it has now. The same goes for the Church or the Synagogue.
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he's also missing a point... just because you read something in a book 1) doesn not make it right (they can have mistakes) and 2) tests + exams exist to correct you.. people do mislearn things and misunderstand the things they learn
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yeah but if you want to be successful you need passion and courosity more then IQ....
CQ+PQ>IQ
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You're not seeing my point. I'm talking about a massive amount of students. There are tens of thousands of kids that need to learn something like Integral Calculus and there aren't tens of thousands credible tutors, much less ones with out degrees. You are thinking in individually. YOU could learn Calculus by hiring a tutor. YOU could learn to be a better doctor by 4 years of living with, working with, and studying a doctor rather than 8 years of pre-med and med school. Society could not function like that. Order needs to be set up for the best possible results. I could learn more about Islam by independant study than a large percentage of Muslims but I understand that with out the organizations of the mosques that Islam simply would not reach and maintain the numbers it has reached and maintained over the years. If there never were mosques and Islam relied solely on the individuals desire to pursue knowledge of Islam it would be a religion that consists of only a fraction of the people it has now. The same goes for the Church or the Synagogue.
Yet again, I'd have to ask you to re-read my previous posts. Look at the thread title, it says "95% of the time School Is Unnecessary". Yet, you are arguing over the usefullness of religious institutions such as the mosque, which are two totally different subjects.
I'm talking about futility of schools, and you took the giant leap of suggesting I was talking about the futility of the mosque? TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECTS. But since you brought up mosques, let me speak on it for a second so you don't get the wrong idea, I am 100% for the institution of the mosque.
As for the mosque and "organized religion"..........
It's like Imam Jamil Al Amin says, we have to understand that ignorance is organized. It is an organized force that impacts on the community as a whole. To dispel ignorance, then Allah calls on you to be an organized force. But, to be an organized force, Allah sets down certain rules as to how the organized force must work. The whole concept of leadership, respect and a sense of order, the whole nature of things, Allah taught to the Prophets, these are the things that work.
When believers come together for the making of the prayer, Allah begins to accentuate posotive things, likes and similiarities; and He begins to point out the unimportance of the negative things that keep them away from each other, the little attitudes, and the differences. Indeed, Allah swears, "by those who arrange themselves in ranks and who are therefore strong in repelling evil." By arranging ourselves in ranks Allah begins to synchronize the hearts of the believers.
Evil is organized, you have billion dollar companies and marketing schemes aimed at you to spend your money on their products and live the lifestyle they desire you to live. So likewise, mankind has to be organized in repelling that evil, and Allah gives us a program that reminds us througout the day what our true purpose in life is.
So important is community, and "organized religion" that when the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) migrated from Mekkah to Medina, the first thing he established was a mosque, to facilitate the congregational prayers (performed side by side 5 times daily in the mosque), so that social fiber would begin to take hold, and the hearts would be united in functioning on a socially conscious manner so that remembrance of Allah became the most important activity in their life.
Moreover, Allah gave worship to the Prophet as a tool whereby he could distinguish, even in the midst of his ranks, those who feared Allah , who had the awareness of Allah, from those who were thoughtless of their Lord. Prayer became a means by which he measured men.
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if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane, if you are doubting my words, you may be going insane,
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especially MATH!! FUCKIN A MAN! Ive avoided it in college as long as I can but I finally couldnt dodge it nemore. Today was the first day of the semester :-\ Math is so pointless though, I am never gonna use this stupid shit ever, fuck math
man...math is important like english. If u pay the store 5 bucks for food, you'll give him 20 bucks because it's only money?
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You're not seeing my point. I'm talking about a massive amount of students. There are tens of thousands of kids that need to learn something like Integral Calculus and there aren't tens of thousands credible tutors, much less ones with out degrees. You are thinking in individually. YOU could learn Calculus by hiring a tutor. YOU could learn to be a better doctor by 4 years of living with, working with, and studying a doctor rather than 8 years of pre-med and med school. Society could not function like that. Order needs to be set up for the best possible results. I could learn more about Islam by independant study than a large percentage of Muslims but I understand that with out the organizations of the mosques that Islam simply would not reach and maintain the numbers it has reached and maintained over the years. If there never were mosques and Islam relied solely on the individuals desire to pursue knowledge of Islam it would be a religion that consists of only a fraction of the people it has now. The same goes for the Church or the Synagogue.
Yet again, I'd have to ask you to re-read my previous posts. Look at the thread title, it says "95% of the time School Is Unnecessary". Yet, you are arguing over the usefullness of religious institutions such as the mosque, which are two totally different subjects.
I'm talking about futility of schools, and you took the giant leap of suggesting I was talking about the futility of the mosque? TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECTS. But since you brought up mosques, let me speak on it for a second so you don't get the wrong idea, I am 100% for the institution of the mosque.
As for the mosque and "organized religion"..........
It's like Imam Jamil Al Amin says, we have to understand that ignorance is organized. It is an organized force that impacts on the community as a whole. To dispel ignorance, then Allah calls on you to be an organized force. But, to be an organized force, Allah sets down certain rules as to how the organized force must work. The whole concept of leadership, respect and a sense of order, the whole nature of things, Allah taught to the Prophets, these are the things that work.
When believers come together for the making of the prayer, Allah begins to accentuate posotive things, likes and similiarities; and He begins to point out the unimportance of the negative things that keep them away from each other, the little attitudes, and the differences. Indeed, Allah swears, "by those who arrange themselves in ranks and who are therefore strong in repelling evil." By arranging ourselves in ranks Allah begins to synchronize the hearts of the believers.
Evil is organized, you have billion dollar companies and marketing schemes aimed at you to spend your money on their products and live the lifestyle they desire you to live. So likewise, mankind has to be organized in repelling that evil, and Allah gives us a program that reminds us througout the day what our true purpose in life is.
So important is community, and "organized religion" that when the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) migrated from Mekkah to Medina, the first thing he established was a mosque, to facilitate the congregational prayers (performed side by side 5 times daily in the mosque), so that social fiber would begin to take hold, and the hearts would be united in functioning on a socially conscious manner so that remembrance of Allah became the most important activity in their life.
Moreover, Allah gave worship to the Prophet as a tool whereby he could distinguish, even in the midst of his ranks, those who feared Allah , who had the awareness of Allah, from those who were thoughtless of their Lord. Prayer became a means by which he measured men.
Thanks for the sermon but your missing the point.
Where did I assume you were talking about the futility of the Mosque? I said the school systenm was effective and not futile, and I used the effectiveness of the organized Mosque to show what such organization does. With out this Islam would not be near as large. With out organized schooling societies that have it wouldn't be nearly as educated as they are. Post secondary may not be all that useful when it comes to learning and attaining knowledge in many subjects but everything up until grade 12 is very useful. The average College grad goes through 4 years of school at that level and that's 4 out of 16 years total. Not 95% at all. It's more like 25%, and let's say that 75% of post secondary is unnecessary that leaves us at about 30% of unnecessary education. I will not agree with your 95% and it was that number that I argued with to begin with. Trash organized education all you want but it is the only reason many countries are so much more educated than others. I only used the mosque example to help you see what I was trying to say.
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Thanks for the sermon but your missing the point.
Where did I assume you were talking about the futility of the Mosque? I said the school systenm was effective and not futile, and I used the effectiveness of the organized Mosque to show what such organization does. With out this Islam would not be near as large. With out organized schooling societies that have it wouldn't be nearly as educated as they are. Post secondary may not be all that useful when it comes to learning and attaining knowledge in many subjects but everything up until grade 12 is very useful. The average College grad goes through 4 years of school at that level and that's 4 out of 16 years total. Not 95% at all. It's more like 25%, and let's say that 75% of post secondary is unnecessary that leaves us at about 30% of unnecessary education. I will not agree with your 95% and it was that number that I argued with to begin with. Trash organized education all you want but it is the only reason many countries are so much more educated than others. I only used the mosque example to help you see what I was trying to say.
Your still trying to compare the school system to the mosque. I'm going to drop this argument for the sake of Allah. peace.
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allah will throw a curse on you for using his name in such douchebaggery
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Your still trying to compare the school system to the mosque. I'm going to drop this argument for the sake of Allah. peace.
You're still being closed-minded as always. Allah (AKA yours truly) is not happy with you right now. Give yourself 10 lashes for being a bad Muslim and pray to me for forgiveness.
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Thanks for the sermon but your missing the point.
Where did I assume you were talking about the futility of the Mosque? I said the school systenm was effective and not futile, and I used the effectiveness of the organized Mosque to show what such organization does. With out this Islam would not be near as large. With out organized schooling societies that have it wouldn't be nearly as educated as they are. Post secondary may not be all that useful when it comes to learning and attaining knowledge in many subjects but everything up until grade 12 is very useful. The average College grad goes through 4 years of school at that level and that's 4 out of 16 years total. Not 95% at all. It's more like 25%, and let's say that 75% of post secondary is unnecessary that leaves us at about 30% of unnecessary education. I will not agree with your 95% and it was that number that I argued with to begin with. Trash organized education all you want but it is the only reason many countries are so much more educated than others. I only used the mosque example to help you see what I was trying to say.
Your still trying to compare the school system to the mosque. I'm going to drop this argument for the sake of Allah. peace.
I think Allah can take care of Allah. God doesn't need some stubborn American white kid to defend him, particularly when Allah isn't being attacked.
Replace Islam with Catholism and Mosque with Catholic Church, and you have the exact same form of growth between the church and education using an organized system that theorhectically could be avoided and the knowledge could be discovered by individuals seeking it, but practically and realistically it won't work. News flash, people, particularly whn in masses or mobs, are very stupid and need to be force fed information in order for that info to be accepted and passed on.
Just say you overestimated the number and that most school is an asset to society as a whole when it is organized and regulated rather than have education left up to the individual to find for themsleves. How far do you think any religion would have gone if children were taught from day one that God may exist and we might be praying to the right one in the right way but it's up to you to choose if you want to go to church or temple and it's up to you if you want to believe. Theorhetically it would be the purist way to find and to lead people to God but it would be very impracticle and would cause every religion to lose massive numbers with each generation, ultimately leading to the demise of the religion.
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Your still trying to compare the school system to the mosque. I'm going to drop this argument for the sake of Allah. peace.
You're still being closed-minded as always. Allah (AKA yours truly) is not happy with you right now. Give yourself 10 lashes for being a bad Muslim and pray to me for forgiveness.
haha, ive always wanted to see someone whip themselves
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Thanks for the sermon but your missing the point.
Where did I assume you were talking about the futility of the Mosque? I said the school systenm was effective and not futile, and I used the effectiveness of the organized Mosque to show what such organization does. With out this Islam would not be near as large. With out organized schooling societies that have it wouldn't be nearly as educated as they are. Post secondary may not be all that useful when it comes to learning and attaining knowledge in many subjects but everything up until grade 12 is very useful. The average College grad goes through 4 years of school at that level and that's 4 out of 16 years total. Not 95% at all. It's more like 25%, and let's say that 75% of post secondary is unnecessary that leaves us at about 30% of unnecessary education. I will not agree with your 95% and it was that number that I argued with to begin with. Trash organized education all you want but it is the only reason many countries are so much more educated than others. I only used the mosque example to help you see what I was trying to say.
Your still trying to compare the school system to the mosque. I'm going to drop this argument for the sake of Allah. peace.
Its You're or You are not Your. Go back to school.
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Not only is school often unnecassary but it actually has harmful affects. Dr. Na'im Akbar, says that the black people that oppose such great thinkers as Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey were usually the one's with college degree's. He's says they've been trained into obedience by the white man, and they sacrificed so much for their degree's, they feel obligated to defend what they have been taught even if it's not to their benefit and only serves the superiority myth of the white man.
Malcolm X is quoted as saying something similar, he said...
"You trust them and I don't. You studied what he wanted you to learn about him in schools, I studied him in the streets and in prison, where you see the truth."
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so if i studied black people "in the streets" and in prison.. what truth would i see?
you make me sick.
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so if i studied black people "in the streets" and in prison.. what truth would i see?
you make me sick.
proven fact that prisioners come out smarter and have more knowledge of how the world really works when they come out.
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Not only is school often unnecassary but it actually has harmful affects. Dr. Na'im Akbar, says that the black people that oppose such great thinkers as Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey were usually the one's with college degree's. He's says they've been trained into obedience by the white man, and they sacrificed so much for their degree's, they feel obligated to defend what they have been taught even if it's not to their benefit and only serves the superiority myth of the white man.
Malcolm X is quoted as saying something similar, he said...
"You trust them and I don't. You studied what he wanted you to learn about him in schools, I studied him in the streets and in prison, where you see the truth."
History is just one small quite useless aspect of school. Any jackass with the ability to read can learn about Malcolm X or black history. To learn to read and study reading, and to learn to write and write properly are far more important, and even if what you are taught are Shakespeare and Hemmingway, what you learn from being taught by reading books like that can be applied to studying black authors as well. Math and science is universal. The main reason the blacks that started to fall in the post-civil rights era as far as I'm concerned is because they too often see and treat "the white man" as the enemy they cannot trust or learn from. The chinese have been through shit for centuries and they come up in the American system and strive because they obtain a sense of pride in their new land. I have spoken to many Canadian Chinese people whose families came to Canada a hundred years ago and they'll tell me every time that they are Canadian and this is their home and if Communist China started a war with Canada they'd join up and fight China, because it's what their great grandfathers would have decided to do the second the came over in the first place and suffered to no end by the white Canadian, because they stood for an ideal. An ideal that escaped many of the white Canadians.
I'm reminded of that stupid Dead Prez skit at the beginning of Lets Get Free where the speaker is telling the story about wolf hunting in the arctic and how the hunters put blood covered knives in the ice and the wolves lick them thinking it's food and slowly die from blood loss and then he says "instead of blaming the oppressor we blame the victim" and compares it to what the white man is doing to blacks today. I say that black people are a hell of a lot smarter than stupid arctic wolves and the ones that are so stupid to not see the metaphorical knife, eventhough it's in plain sight and clearly is not food, and continue to eat anyway, well they are stupid enough for me to say they deservedly fall behind. I'm not talking about all, most or even a large percentage of blacks, just the few that seem to get all the mention by both black and white groups and hurt all blacks in the process.
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^^^^ Shallow, why the hell are you even wasting your time with Infinite?
Bryan, how many times do I have to tell you - you can try and pretend you are "one of us" all you want, but I got no love for devils and ALL of them will have to die when the revolution begins. The white man cannot be reformed whether he is Muslim or not. So acting the way you do isn't going to get you spared when the guns go off. ALL devils will have to cower before the GODS for final judgment...and I shall dole it out in the form of Kalashnikov rounds.
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^^^^ Shallow, why the hell are you even wasting your time with Infinite?
I'm bored I guess.
Bryan, how many times do I have to tell you - you can try and pretend you are "one of us" all you want, but I got no love for devils and ALL of them will have to die when the revolution begins. The white man cannot be reformed whether he is Muslim or not. So acting the way you do isn't going to get you spared when the guns go off. ALL devils will have to cower before the GODS for final judgment...and I shall dole it out in the form of Kalashnikov rounds.
Hey, I'm white. Will I get spared?
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i've always have been good at math , that's why i will be bill gate's accountant when i get my masters from USC 8)
Jake you go to USC too? I just started a couple weeks ago
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Hey, I'm white. Will I get spared?
Sorry.
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Hey, I'm white. Will I get spared?
Sorry.
Aw Shucks.
Looks like I'll have to get ready and join CWalker's side.
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Looks like I'll have to get ready and join CWalker's side.
Probably not a bad idea. The rednecks are the only ones with enough guns that they MIGHT be able to hold out. But not for long...ultimately, we will prevail
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Looks like I'll have to get ready and join CWalker's side.
Probably not a bad idea. The rednecks are the only ones with enough guns that they MIGHT be able to hold out. But not for long...ultimately, we will prevail
What if we recruit the guy with the gun from Home Alone in your picture? Surely then we will emerge victorious. No army of non-whites can match the sinister wit of Ralph Foody. Snakes sure didn't see it coming.
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Looks like I'll have to get ready and join CWalker's side.
Probably not a bad idea. The rednecks are the only ones with enough guns that they MIGHT be able to hold out. But not for long...ultimately, we will prevail
What if we recruit the guy with the gun from Home Alone in your picture? Surely then we will emerge victorious. No army of non-whites can match the sinister wit of Ralph Foody. Snakes sure didn't see it coming.
IMDB says that Ralph Foody died of cancer on November 21st, 1999. Looks like you're out of luck.
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Looks like I'll have to get ready and join CWalker's side.
Probably not a bad idea. The rednecks are the only ones with enough guns that they MIGHT be able to hold out. But not for long...ultimately, we will prevail
What if we recruit the guy with the gun from Home Alone in your picture? Surely then we will emerge victorious. No army of non-whites can match the sinister wit of Ralph Foody. Snakes sure didn't see it coming.
IMDB says that Ralph Foody died of cancer on November 21st, 1999. Looks like you're out of luck.
Darn. I'll get my casket and tombstone ready.
You gotta admit, I had you pretty scared there with the idea of Foody joining the fight.
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Darn. I'll get my casket and tombstone ready.
You gotta admit, I had you pretty scared there with the idea of Foody joining the fight.
I guess, but you probably should've recommended to 'ol Ralph that he trade in that Tommy Gun for a nice new AR-15, or maybe an M249 Squad Automatic Weapon.
You guys might have a chance if you get Chuck Norris and Jack Bauer to join your side. We've already got Vin Diesel and Wesley Snipes down with us.
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Darn. I'll get my casket and tombstone ready.
You gotta admit, I had you pretty scared there with the idea of Foody joining the fight.
I guess, but you probably should've recommended to 'ol Ralph that he trade in that Tommy Gun for a nice new AR-15, or maybe an M249 Squad Automatic Weapon.
You guys might have a chance if you get Chuck Norris and Jack Bauer to join your side. We've already got Vin Diesel and Wesley Snipes down with us.
Chuck is a born again Christian. He won't kill anymore. Vin Diesel would work to our benfit. His confused racial identity will do you in. Victory is mine.
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For real I agree wit the beginning threads. You can't teach someone something if they don't want to learn it...You can't focus on something if you just don't want to plus plain and simple school is a BIG FUCKIN JOKE..Just take it from me personal experience..school is a one huge joke!! Plus it is fuckin' pointless...how are you gonna teach me fuckin algebra or shapes and patterns in geometry when I gotta count money out a register HELLO teach me how to count money, help sharpen those kind of skills I need! I don't give two fucks about x's and y's that shit is like a foreign language to me like every other kid in school today!
Plus I've come to realize these inner city schools are dumbed the FUCK way down...In my school its been proven half these students are at a 3rd grade reading level...that shit pisses me off! I hate talking about this shit cuz I can go on forever...these mutherfuckin teachers wanna cuss at us and do nuthin...my school has the lowest state test scores and that also pisses me off cuz now we is all labeled idiots! Don't call me an idiot when these kids is passing classes wit flying colors and they do NOTHING during class. It ain't our faluts! I had so many teachers who plain and simple don't wanna teach and some of them are so DUMB I can't comprehend how the FUCK THEY GET A DAMN TEACHING DEGREE! AND it AIN'T JUST my city out CT it's EVERY city out the WHOLE country! They all got the same problems and I can't stand it.
No lie at all, AT ALL '95% Of The Time School Is Unnecessary'...nobody's FUCKIN LEARNIN!
Hell I was even thinking about becoming a teacher becuz none of these teachers today are out for the better of the students...I know I don't have the looks of a teacher what so ever but..I like to see inner city kids succeed..no matter the race..and I don't see no niggas doin' that...it's bullshit...school sucks...
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Anything you want to learn you can just go get the books on your own, surf the internet, and ask people who know.
Now, if the point of school is having a certificate or degree to prove proficiency in a particular field, then rather than school, they should just have exams and other practical tests where people can prove their worth to a perspective employer.
well..u have to study to learn new stuff, right? Test are given for basic stuff. but i hate test.
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For real I agree wit the beginning threads. You can't teach someone something if they don't want to learn it...You can't focus on something if you just don't want to plus plain and simple school is a BIG FUCKIN JOKE..Just take it from me personal experience..school is a one huge joke!! Plus it is fuckin' pointless...how are you gonna teach me fuckin algebra or shapes and patterns in geometry when I gotta count money out a register HELLO teach me how to count money, help sharpen those kind of skills I need! I don't give two fucks about x's and y's that shit is like a foreign language to me like every other kid in school today!
Plus I've come to realize these inner city schools are dumbed the FUCK way down...In my school its been proven half these students are at a 3rd grade reading level...that shit pisses me off! I hate talking about this shit cuz I can go on forever...these mutherfuckin teachers wanna cuss at us and do nuthin...my school has the lowest state test scores and that also pisses me off cuz now we is all labeled idiots! Don't call me an idiot when these kids is passing classes wit flying colors and they do NOTHING during class. It ain't our faluts! I had so many teachers who plain and simple don't wanna teach and some of them are so DUMB I can't comprehend how the FUCK THEY GET A DAMN TEACHING DEGREE! AND it AIN'T JUST my city out CT it's EVERY city out the WHOLE country! They all got the same problems and I can't stand it.
No lie at all, AT ALL '95% Of The Time School Is Unnecessary'...nobody's FUCKIN LEARNIN!
Hell I was even thinking about becoming a teacher becuz none of these teachers today are out for the better of the students...I know I don't have the looks of a teacher what so ever but..I like to see inner city kids succeed..no matter the race..and I don't see no niggas doin' that...it's bullshit...school sucks...
So are you against schools because you "don't give two fucks about x's and y's" or because you think or because you think "so many teachers who plain and simple don't wanna teach"? It has to be one or the other here. Here either what they teach is useless or they don't put in the effort to teach it. Teaching math and science is essential to society. We need the next wave of engineers, doctors, etc.
In most schools you can stop taking math after a certain grade. calacxulus isn't essential to graduate as far as I know and any algebra under that level is simple brain work and can be taught in a way where it is easily understood. I could teach you algebra up to grade ten in an afternoon if you don't understand it.
The school system is very corrupted though. Unions and lazy teachers, along with bullshit liberal mindsets have fucked it up. I wanted to be a teacher once and studied for years on the best appraoches to teach various subjects, but then I realized that if I did figure out a way to teach these kids to the point where they excelled and everyone got Bs and As I'd get in trouble. The other teachers would get on my case for making them look bad, and I'd get moved from school to school never getting the chance to establish a strong program. The way society is now I'd also be fighting an uphill battle with the parents. The teacher used to be a position of great respect. Parents ragarded you as a primary figure in their child's life and big part of raising them. Now if you yell at a kid for fighting you have some stupid mother defending her son to no end just because the teacher is seen as the enemy and "you have no right to tell me how to raise my kid". Society has lost its community. I'm better off just getting a good job and putting myself in the neighborhood reaching out to the troubled youth on the weekend and after school.
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^ Ok for one if you taught these kids to the point where they excelled and everyone got Bs and As please please don't say the other teachers would get on your case becuz they wouldn't unless you come from outta town nigga. Every teacher is in a school building for the one same reason... to teach! If another teacher gets on your case about teaching students so well then you gotta be doin' something incredibility good! That's what these kids need today, somebody who will actually sit down and work with the kids. Tell them they are capable of doin to this shit, someone to say you can do this.
If you can sit down and teach me or anybody how to do algebra quickly than damn nigga that's whats up. Not many teachers would do that or even feel like doin that.
The school system is very corrupted though.
Exactly...That's what I'm sayin'. It's rare to see teachers who are out here for the better of the kids. In a inner city school you can't just say 'Ok class this is what we gon learn' than teach the lesson, give homework and everything's good, you can't do that becuz these kids need more than that. Anybody can tell you that. You gotta be able to (1) Teach a class (2) connect wit them (3) show em respect (4) care about them....otherwise they gonna act up. I see it. I see the teacher who just wanna teach get fucked over by the students becuz they don't listen. Then I go to another class to a teacher who knows how to teach but stays real wit them. That's just how it works. And believe it or not these niggas do wanna learn, whether they show it or not, otherwise what's school for?
No matter the race neither, when you are a teacher in the inner city 2 - 1 each one of these kids have been thru trouble...take a look at where they come from and where they live. When you put a bunch of kids like that, black, white, spanish, into one classroom they the same. They act different than someone from um the surrounding town. You gotta handle certain groups of kids differently...
So are you against schools because you "don't give two fucks about x's and y's" or because you think or because you think "so many teachers who plain and simple don't wanna teach"? It has to be one or the other here. Here either what they teach is useless or they don't put in the effort to teach it.
Nah it ain't one or the other. If you're in a class where a teacher is plain out not doin' shit eventually you ain't gonna either. It turns into 'fuck this nigga he ain't even wanna teach'....'fuck this shit, school is wack'.....then it turns to trouble and crime. And I'm against schools becuz of that.
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i'd say 95% of the time school IS neccessary.
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FA SHIZZY ITZ UNNECESSERY
INSTEAD OV GOIN TA SKOOL NICCAZ GON`LEARN HOW 2 BUILD BOMBZ AND SCREAM "ALLAH FUCKBAR"
EAT A FAT DICK HAJJ.
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FA SHIZZY ITZ UNNECESSERY
INSTEAD OV GOIN TA SKOOL NICCAZ GON`LEARN HOW 2 BUILD BOMBZ AND SCREAM "ALLAH FUCKBAR"
EAT A FAT DICK HAJJ.
his real name is Bryan. or Bry-guy
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i shit on his name.