West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on October 05, 2006, 10:34:04 PM
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Mel-Man- after assisting Dre in classic records, now his face is on the back of milk cartons
Dogg Pound- Dogg Food was a classic, now they are dogg shit.
Snoop- Doggystyle was a classic, Doggfather was dogshit, Dre had to come back and ressurect his carear by helping on Top Dogg
Death Row Records- After Dre left, everything fell apart. Dre was the visionary who saw the collapse before it happened and saved himself before it was to late.
Suge Knight- he's still talking about Dre 10 years later
MC Ren- no major success without Dre
Xzibit- Dre made him a star, now he's a nobody again
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dre is a genius....
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Get the fuck outta hurr Dre produce like 2 cuts on a dude album thats it name sum1 else that get more beats ???
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Get the fuck outta hurr Dre produce like 2 cuts on a dude album thats it name sum1 else that get more beats ???
Yo.. it's more than just producing. It's Dre's giudance also, his mixing, his executive producing. The Dogg Food album he didn't produce anything, but he mixed it and he was a mentor to them.
I'm not saying Game won't survive, I was just giving examples of alot of people from the past who haven't been the same without Dre, and I'm sure I forgot many names.
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Xzibit- Dre made him a star, now he's a nobody again
X does movies, tv shows, hosts award shows, etc.
A nobody?
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I wouldn't call Xzibit a nobody. Sure, his last two albums didn't do too well, but he's well known because of "Pimp My Ride". And like Kingwell said, he's doing movies as well. I'd say he's doing pretty well.
Edit: Damn, I said "well" 5 times. :-[
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Death Row Records- After Dre left, everything fell apart. Dre was the visionary who saw the collapse before it happened and saved himself before it was to late.
I think Death Row's demise had to do more with 2Pac's death, the Dre leaving the label.
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X does movies, tv shows, hosts award shows, etc.
A nobody?
Yeah, you got a point, I was only thinking of hip-hop.
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fuckin bryan stop lurking outside of keystyle, go make some bean pie raps
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man your crazy, Doggfather was great
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man your crazy, Doggfather was great
LBC Crew and Kurupt did salvage the album some respectability, but in comparison to Doggystyle it was a complete brick. Also, to clarify, Daz was still making great records after Dre, Revenge Retaliation and Get Back was a great west coast album, but remember, it only went gold.
I may have exaggerated a little, but still, Dre is the wisest dude in hip-hop, Game should have followed his giudance.
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Doggfather was dogshit
man your crazy, Doggfather was great
The endless debate.
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btw, remember all the claims that have been made that Dre has ghost producers and everything else, but his response has always been, "If all of them were so great and I was just cheating them, then how come they ain't done nothing without me." And that's true.
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btw, remember all the claims that have been made that Dre has ghost producers and everything else, but his response has always been, "If all of them were so great and I was just cheating them, then how come they ain't done nothing without me." And that's true.
HAHA. Can't argue with that. Snoop Dogg explained it nice when he was talking about how producing is more then just beat making. Even if Dre's beats have fallen off since back in the day, he is still the best all round producer in hip hop.
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Mel-Man- after assisting Dre in classic records, now his face is on the back of milk cartons
Dogg Pound- Dogg Food was a classic, now they are dogg shit.
Snoop- Doggystyle was a classic, Doggfather was dogshit, Dre had to come back and ressurect his carear by helping on Top Dogg
Death Row Records- After Dre left, everything fell apart. Dre was the visionary who saw the collapse before it happened and saved himself before it was to late.
Suge Knight- he's still talking about Dre 10 years later
MC Ren- no major success without Dre
Xzibit- Dre made him a star, now he's a nobody again
lol on point. Dre da man no doubt
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on point man
I've been saying the same when people are talking about it being no big deal that Dre isn't producing on Game's album, Game is missing out on a lot more than just Dre's beats.
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Yeah its not about the beats its about the giudance that Game definetly needs. Like the first 2 singles are horrible lyrically, they are catchy and everything, but he name dropped way too much.
I have no doubt that Games album will have like 5,6 very dope cuts but thats gonna be it probably. The production gonna be crazy again but lyrics :-\
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Well we'll see what happens with Game. Could go either way. I think the music isn't gonna disappoint as such, but album consistency and maybe song subjects might be lacking. Gotta wait it out & see.
Dre's the man, no doubt.
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Dre's the man but what about Scott Storch. Also Snoop went platinum even if album wasn't as hot without dre.
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Dre's the man, no doubt.
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you forgot Em (Dre just sent him beats for Encore...) and 50 (50 did The Massacre on his own..)
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Knoc-Turn'al could be another rapper who hasnt done much and who once had potential becuz he was backed by Dre
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What about Ice Cube? And 2pac done juyst fine without him....
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FUCK NAH, DRE STEALS SHIT. U REMEMBER PRODUCE BY, AND ALL THAT WAS NOT HIM... STOLE DAZ, AND QUIK SHIT... GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE, GGGGGG-UNOT
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Snoop- Doggystyle was a classic, Doggfather was dogshit, Dre had to come back and ressurect his carear by helping on Top Dogg
Bullshit. Snoop may not be doing anything as good as "Doggystyle" these days, but he's still one of the best in the game. If Dre's guidance was the only thing keeping Snoop alive, he would've sunk off the face of the Earth a while ago.
And even though "No Limit Top Dogg" and "Tha Last Meal" had Dre beats, that ain't the same thing as having Dre's guidance. Both of those records were still exec-produced by Master P and Snoop (check the liner notes), not Dre.
Xzibit- Dre made him a star, now he's a nobody again
Somewhat true, but Xzibit definitely does not suck, and even if his music career isn't as profitable as it used to be, he's doing well enough with "Pimp My Ride" and his movie career right now that he can't exactly be called a "nobody".
I think Death Row's demise had to do more with 2Pac's death, the Dre leaving the label.
When they still had several vaults full of Pac's material? Not to mention Snoop still on there?
No, it definitely had more to do with Dre leaving. The point where Death Row started falling off corresponds perfectly to Dre's departure.
you forgot Em (Dre just sent him beats for Encore...) and 50 (50 did The Massacre on his own..)
Em started taking almost full creative control on the "Marshall Mathers LP", and that turned out dope.
50 I agree with, sorta.
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Dre's the man, no doubt.
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lol @ the Dr. Dre "Stans"
He can do no wrong ::)
Making artist sit on the sidelines for years, the proposed & prolonged "Detox" album featuring everybody and their mommas, not talking to the public and/or press, not writing his own ryhmes, "stealing" beats, trowing out 1 or 2 beats to a couple of artist, constant & heavy dicc riding for the East Coast etc etc.... :P
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ABOVE THE LAW WITH DRE- UNDERGROUND STARS WITHOUT DRE- STARS UNDERGROUND, DEEP UNDERGROUND!
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As many dope albums we have got from Dre, Just remember all the ones he never got around to doing:
Rakim
Ice Cube (& Heltah Skeltah)
Ice T
Sticky Fingaz
NWA
DJ Quik
Timbaland
Dre N Snoop
Nate Dogg
Hittman
I am sure the list is longer than this. Some are rumors but most in some way or another were supposed to have Dre involved.
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dre is good no doubt, but the production is going to be good regardless. Game can drop a hot verses anytime he wants to. it just a matter of whether he wants to. WITH DRES GUIDANCE HE NAME DROPED ON THE DOCUMENTARY, so whats your point. the big thing is dres sound, which is what he adds to other peoples tracks.
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Snoop- Doggystyle was a classic, Doggfather was dogshit, Dre had to come back and ressurect his carear by helping on Top Dogg
Bullshit. Snoop may not be doing anything as good as "Doggystyle" these days, but he's still one of the best in the game. If Dre's guidance was the only thing keeping Snoop alive, he would've sunk off the face of the Earth a while ago.
And even though "No Limit Top Dogg" and "Tha Last Meal" had Dre beats, that ain't the same thing as having Dre's guidance. Both of those records were still exec-produced by Master P and Snoop (check the liner notes), not Dre.
Xzibit- Dre made him a star, now he's a nobody again
Somewhat true, but Xzibit definitely does not suck, and even if his music career isn't as profitable as it used to be, he's doing well enough with "Pimp My Ride" and his movie career right now that he can't exactly be called a "nobody".
I think Death Row's demise had to do more with 2Pac's death, the Dre leaving the label.
When they still had several vaults full of Pac's material? Not to mention Snoop still on there?
No, it definitely had more to do with Dre leaving. The point where Death Row started falling off corresponds perfectly to Dre's departure.
you forgot Em (Dre just sent him beats for Encore...) and 50 (50 did The Massacre on his own..)
Em started taking almost full creative control on the "Marshall Mathers LP", and that turned out dope.
50 I agree with, sorta.
Speaking of a SHady, Dr Dre, G Unit Groupie Bitch Stan LMAO Old "Lumpy" Johnson damm homie give it up
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Nas is another artist that doesn't suck without Dre's guidance. Nas came out sick with Illmatic and then fell off. Hooked up with Dre for the Firm project, flopped. Dropped Stillmatic without Dre. Back in the Game.
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Nas is another artist that doesn't suck without Dre's guidance. Nas came out sick with Illmatic and then fell off. Hooked up with Dre for the Firm project, flopped. Dropped Stillmatic without Dre. Back in the Game.
I forgot about the "Firm Fiasco". Dre has got to take some blame for that album too.
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Death Row Records- After Dre left, everything fell apart. Dre was the visionary who saw the collapse before it happened and saved himself before it was to late.
I think Death Row's demise had to do more with 2Pac's death, the Dre leaving the label.
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The Firm album is great IMO
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The Firm album is great IMO
For as hyped as that album was I was disappointed. Alot of R&Bish tracks on there and that was when Nas was going through is whole Escobar stage. The only tracks I was feeling the most were the Dre cuts and the one with Canibus. It could have been alot better.
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yall forgetting The Big Bang what happened to that?
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Yo! G-Unit victory nomsayin and The Big Bang is bangin out my trunk everyday REAL TALK HOMIE
1
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lots of rappers have done well with Dre helping them..
-Eazy E
-Ice Cube
-Snoop
-Kurupt
-Daz (done very well independently)
etc etc
Dre is a great producer because he knows what the majority of people want to hear. That is why his music sells alot. But we shouldn't judge a rappers success based on numbers..
But even if we do look at sales, there has been plenty of rappers who have gone platinum THIS YEAR WITHOUT dre's help. Infact, the main flop of this year is Busta Rhymes and Mobb Deep... So Game has a great chance of doing well without dre.
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Fact is that MOST artist do not have more than one or two stellar albums. Those that don't have a first hit record, rarley get a chance to have a second from a major label. Thats regardless of producer or label.
What about Truth Hurts? One great song and done. What about all the unfinished Aftermath projects (Rakim, etc)?
Dre is the man, no doubt but if an artist has what it takes they will shine regardless. Look at Snoop and Pac.
If you think about it, Storch probably has more influence in hit records than Dre for the past 5 years (including the songs he did with Dre). You could even argue that Pharrel has been doing it better than Dre for the last 5 years too.
There are several reasons why working without Dre is a smart move:
1) If Game does a hit record without Dre, it will make his stock rise so much higher than if he had done the safe thing and work with Dre.
2) Dre is so busy that getting anything released takes forever.
3) Dre usually only gives his full effort to the first album, after that he sits back in the cut.
Don't be surprised if it turns out Dre actually told Game it would be a better move without himself on the album and even gave Game feedback on the album in a non-official capacity.
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^^ nicely put. Personally, I don't even think it's arguable whether or not Pharrell has done better then Dre in the last 5 years (making hit records, he defanitely has).
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I'm glad Dre isn't on the album. You should buy The Game's to hear him, not Dre.
Some people act like Dre's the only person who can produce a quality record.
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Doggfather is snoops 2nd best album, nothing else of his comes close to this one, of course doggystyle is the best. Doggfather is a great album.
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Mel-Man- after assisting Dre in classic records, now his face is on the back of milk cartons
Dogg Pound- Dogg Food was a classic, now they are dogg shit.
Snoop- Doggystyle was a classic, Doggfather was dogshit, Dre had to come back and ressurect his carear by helping on Top Dogg
Death Row Records- After Dre left, everything fell apart. Dre was the visionary who saw the collapse before it happened and saved himself before it was to late.
Suge Knight- he's still talking about Dre 10 years later
MC Ren- no major success without Dre
Xzibit- Dre made him a star, now he's a nobody again
Why don't you make a list of people who did well without a single Dre beat?
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Doggfather is snoops 2nd best album, nothing else of his comes close to this one, of course doggystyle is the best. Doggfather is a great album.
Almost anything he did after "Da Game Is To Be Sold Not Told" (which was fuckin awful) is better than "Tha Doggfather", including both of his other two No Limit albums and even his last two records.
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Doggfather is snoops 2nd best album, nothing else of his comes close to this one, of course doggystyle is the best. Doggfather is a great album.
Almost anything he did after "Da Game Is To Be Sold Not Told" (which was fuckin awful) is better than "Tha Doggfather", including both of his other two No Limit albums and even his last two records.
oh hell no, they can't even compare
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haha
ya, "Game Is To Be Sold" is better than "Doggfather" ::)
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I talked with a few people from Black Wall Street/Brazil St about the whole thing with Game and Dre, and from hearin the whole situation, there are things that I do and don't blame Game for.
But since this is the "bash Game for leavin Dre" thread, I'll just speak on the things I wouldn't blame him for. Just as many of y'all already know...Dre does take forever when it comes to working with artists and projects, and this can be good and bad. Good when albums actually come out...bad when artists and projects end up being shelved or pushed back forever. With Game, he wasn't tryin to drop in January 05, then not be heard from again til January 08-09...and I know he wasn't tryin to just make mixtape after mixtape. So for this second album, he wanted Dre to guide him and all with it, but it's a great chance that Dre wasn't even gonna look at workin on a Game album until AFTER Detox, Bishop Lamont, and maybe more than that...so Game decided to take this album into his own hands. However...from what I hear, Game put this album together, and Dre wasn't pleased with the overall product of it, and that was a reason that he didn't want to take part in it...which could be a major reason that they haven't even talked in the last 3-4 months (maybe more than that). I don't know if Game ever recorded on the Dre beats, and I don't know if Dre had already been planning to drop him from Aftermath, which is something people affiliated with BWS/Aftermath were saying for a very long time. But overall...I still don't really think that Game's "being dropped" was completely because both sides were like "fuck you" to the other side....which is probably why he's still under the Interscope umbrella. Also, I don't see it being very likely that Game could remain on Aftermath, but continue to run Black Wall Street while it was getting distributed through a different label. With 50 and Eminem, they could do it because it was Shady/Aftermath and G-Unit/Aftermath.....but since Game wasn't going to get distribution through Aftermath, it would be a challenge for him to do the same.
Now for my personal opinion............as far as him and 50's beef being a major reason for him being dropped....I think it was more less how the situation was handled than anything else. Dre knew that they were beefin in damn September of 2004, months before the album came out, yet him and Iovine still wanted to put him out...and on the real, I am VERY sure that they knew the situation would boil over and that word would get out about them beefin, and I'm sure they expected them to diss each other. If I knew that shit, they definitely had to. And what does that mean? Being businessmen, they realized that would mean ever more profit for them! So when they saw that 50 was dissin Game and all right before his album dropped, I doubt they were like "hey 50....kill that, he's our artist" because they knew it would make BOTH of them sell! And think about it......we are dealing with Iovine, the same person who had Aftermath AND Death Row both under Interscope at the same time, making money off of both! So it doesn't surprise me at all if they were silently rooting for the beef. However.....being that 50 has still been more successful than Game overall, and that the G-Unit name itself was still a bigger cash cow than Game and Black Wall Street...they probably didn't want Game to "win" the battle at all, and they probably realized that Game was actually going to do more damage to 50 and the crew than they had really thought. So when G-Unit started to seem as if they were losing their shine, I wouldn't be surprised if Iovine and Dre were like "damn.....we wanted them to beef...but we didn't want Game to kill G-Unit's sales at all", regardless of if you think Game was the reason G-Unit's last few albums weren't as successful. And if you really look at it...50 did a LOT more to disrespect Dre than Game ever did....ever after leavin, Game still "kisses Dre's ass" on every song. So Dre n Iovine may have even said fuck it....we can't really be mad at Game for goin at them on his own, and for havin the heart to go at a strong camp....but that's OUR camp, and that's OUR money...so we gotta let Game go, even though he has been more loyal and more positive to us than 50 has. Yeah, Game did keep goin at G-Unit for too long after the first mixtape, but so did Snoop and Dre when they were goin at Eazy and Ruthless back in the day. So the only difference now is that Dre oversees "Snoop, Dre, Dogg Pound, Eazy, and Ruthless"....which is a major reason to why Dre probably never wanted Game to get in G-Unit the way that he did.
So with that being said...........I don't think we can really be mad at Game like that. Even without Dre, his buzz is fuck'n ridiculous right now...and even with the negative topics about him we may see on different boards, his visibility is still higher than anybody else in the Game right now, even the "greatest rapper alive" Jay-Z, who's coming out around the same time as him. One Blood is the #2 most requested song at my school in Tallahassee, Florida, and they usually don't like anything from the West that's not Snoop or Dre...and he's doin this without Dre.
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Dre should just have a production company where artists can come to get their album mixed or he can give them guidance. The amount of artists we have all mentioned against the time and effort Dre puts into albums and starting them don't add up. He will never have time to put even his own artists out. And that is why so many leave from him. If you get put out there is no problem because you were one of the lucky ones to capitalize off of the success of working with him (Em, 50, Snoop, Game, etc) But just think of how many never got that chance.
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R-Tistic, your are spitting some real talk as usual. That shit makes alot of sense. But we have never had another producer have a impact like Dre. I would love to see Quik have the control to do what Dre does. I just think that people feel like Dre is their only option at times.
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I think the reason people wanted Game to work with Dre on DA was because we haven't heard alot of real quality material from Dre in a while (not including Busta's lp because I think Dre got lazy on that one...). Alot of people (myself including) want to hear another "How We Do" caliber track from Dre to ensure us that Dre is still on top of his game(no pun intended). All in all I think Game not working with Dre on this album was a good yet risky move on his part because this is now a make or break situation for him and I hope he proves us all wrong and drops a banger, not necessarily a classic, but an album worthy enough of saying "Game can sell records on his own". Unfortunately after hearing 1blood and strip club, I'm that not impressed...
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Dre should just have a production company where artists can come to get their album mixed or he can give them guidance. The amount of artists we have all mentioned against the time and effort Dre puts into albums and starting them don't add up. He will never have time to put even his own artists out. And that is why so many leave from him. If you get put out there is no problem because you were one of the lucky ones to capitalize off of the success of working with him (Em, 50, Snoop, Game, etc) But just think of how many never got that chance.
But Dre wants full input when you work with him. What he needs to do is hire some inhouse producers to make hot beats, then if he likes the beat he can mix it and whatever. Dre needs to start delegating some responibility towards others. It would save a lot of time, more albums would drop, and still make Aftermath successful.
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^^ Agreed. In-house producers (he trusts obvisouly) would be a great idea. I really don't think the quality of music would get worse, because he'd give it a listen, and if he thinks something's wrong, he could change it. The beat would still come out good, and would save him more time. Also, like someone mentioned, we'd get more music from aftermath/shady/gunit artists, also with Dre's hand involved. Also, I disagree I liked Dre's work on Busta's LP. The track he produced with Busta & Nas, was my fav. song on the cd. The beat on that 1 was CRAZY. Also, I think Game's music is good (personally, the man isn't bright). I'm giving DA a chance. I highly doubt it'll be as good as The Doc. because that cd was near perfect. Nor Game, nor guest appearances, nor production carried that album. A beautiful combo of all 3 did. Production was good, but Game also came correct on most tracks. 50's involvement on it was nice (hard to argue those 3 tracks weren't among the best). Marsha from Floetry did a nice job on her track 2. I do think Game can do it without Dre, as long as the production to replace Dre is there. Dre isn't the only good producer out. On The Doc., Timbo & Just Blaze's tracks were amazing.
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Dre should just have a production company where artists can come to get their album mixed or he can give them guidance. The amount of artists we have all mentioned against the time and effort Dre puts into albums and starting them don't add up. He will never have time to put even his own artists out. And that is why so many leave from him. If you get put out there is no problem because you were one of the lucky ones to capitalize off of the success of working with him (Em, 50, Snoop, Game, etc) But just think of how many never got that chance.
But Dre wants full input when you work with him. What he needs to do is hire some inhouse producers to make hot beats, then if he likes the beat he can mix it and whatever. Dre needs to start delegating some responibility towards others. It would save a lot of time, more albums would drop, and still make Aftermath successful.
I like that idea also, but there have been albums that Dre has had input on that are not "exclusively" from him. I mean the delay that comes with being under the Aftermath label. For example, Snoop did Tha Last Meal with heavy Dre influence, but in the end Master P was the deciding factor in when that album came out. Sure if I am a CEO of a record label I would want to have Dre producing and giving insight to my artists albums, but not at the cost of losing a buzz for my artist. Not at the cost of months upon years the album being delayed. Snoop is getting assistance from Dre for TBCT, but only on a few tracks. If he wants more input from him he can get it but could you imagine not only how long we would have to wait if Snoop was on Aftermath for TBCT but all the other artists that would have to wait in the wings until the album is finished?
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Dre should just have a production company where artists can come to get their album mixed or he can give them guidance. The amount of artists we have all mentioned against the time and effort Dre puts into albums and starting them don't add up. He will never have time to put even his own artists out. And that is why so many leave from him. If you get put out there is no problem because you were one of the lucky ones to capitalize off of the success of working with him (Em, 50, Snoop, Game, etc) But just think of how many never got that chance.
But Dre wants full input when you work with him. What he needs to do is hire some inhouse producers to make hot beats, then if he likes the beat he can mix it and whatever. Dre needs to start delegating some responibility towards others. It would save a lot of time, more albums would drop, and still make Aftermath successful.
I like that idea also, but there have been albums that Dre has had input on that are not "exclusively" from him. I mean the delay that comes with being under the Aftermath label. For example, Snoop did Tha Last Meal with heavy Dre influence, but in the end Master P was the deciding factor in when that album came out. Sure if I am a CEO of a record label I would want to have Dre producing and giving insight to my artists albums, but not at the cost of losing a buzz for my artist. Not at the cost of months upon years the album being delayed. Snoop is getting assistance from Dre for TBCT, but only on a few tracks. If he wants more input from him he can get it but could you imagine not only how long we would have to wait if Snoop was on Aftermath for TBCT but all the other artists that would have to wait in the wings until the album is finished?
I'm talking about artists signed to Aftermath. Working with outside artists is a completly different story. Dr. Dre controls everything that goes on in his label, and that is what's causing deleays and hurting his label in a way. In the end he can decide the quality and what needs to be changed, but he needs to start hiring certain people to control the smaller/simpler aspects of making a label, so shit can be done quicker without hurting the overall quality. Extra producers would help too becasue Dre would still have his input and can mix these beats to make them sound even better. In the end Dre will still dictate the quality of an album.
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Yeah it is a gift and a curse. If you are one of the lucky ones to be put out on Aftermath, you have a chance to make some bomb music, but if not, you are just on a waiting list. It's almost better to be signed to G-Unit or Shady and then have Dre come in and finish up your album. That way at least you have a chance to drop. Em & 50 actually do put out their artists. Em a little bit slower than 50 but much faster than Dre.
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Mel-Man- after assisting Dre in classic records, now his face is on the back of milk cartons
Dogg Pound- Dogg Food was a classic, now they are dogg shit.
Snoop- Doggystyle was a classic, Doggfather was dogshit, Dre had to come back and ressurect his carear by helping on Top Dogg
Death Row Records- After Dre left, everything fell apart. Dre was the visionary who saw the collapse before it happened and saved himself before it was to late.
Suge Knight- he's still talking about Dre 10 years later
MC Ren- no major success without Dre
Xzibit- Dre made him a star, now he's a nobody again
goddamn right
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oh hell no, they can't even compare
They don't? An album based around the then-played-out Death Row/G-Funk sound with mostly lackluster lyricism is better than a couple albums with production by Dre, Scott Storch, Timbaland, etc. and Snoop sounding hungry again?
haha
ya, "Game Is To Be Sold" is better than "Doggfather" ::)
Read it again, fag. I said the albums AFTER "Da Game Is To Be Sold Not Told". Nice job ethering yourself, tho.
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Game will sell with or without Dre
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Game will sell with or without Dre
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Dre does have "in-house" producers....ppl like Hi-tek, Focus, J.R., Storch, DJ Khalil, Porter all are under his wing
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Dre does have "in-house" producers....ppl like Hi-tek, Focus, J.R., Storch, DJ Khalil, Porter all are under his wing
Exactly, and you think 16 yr old high school kids that buy Games Cd are gonna say "Dre's not producing, so im not gonna buy it"
YEAH RIGHT! Game is big now and he will sell regardless...