West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Sikotic™ on October 20, 2006, 12:43:33 AM
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I've been arguing this with my family for the past 3 hours.
Since, according to the Bible or whatever religious text you subscribe to, God is the creator of ALL things. Does that mean he created sin/evil? But I thought he was a God of love?
I'm saying that this is a contradiction in the concept of God. My family take the ignorant route and say that I can't understand what they understand because they have faith and I don't yadda yadda yadda.
So discuss.
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Each one of the monotheist religions, as well as many other religions, rely in one way or another upon the premise that the nature of the soul, which is the true essence of every being, is divine. Nothing new so far. The reason for the creation of all things, on behalf of god of course, is more or less equal to masturbation because god's ultimate objective is to elevate the creation to his level, from where he himself basically reduced it to begin with. YES- He purposely created the physical, which is ways more inferior than the spiritual, for it to ascend back to the top. Sin is a derivative of the physical because the physical is the complete opposite to god's spiritual nature (Despite God being the one to create it). He created man, a tiny piece of god or a soul possesser, in order to be the active force in the creation hence to make the choice between sin and elevation.
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p.s The reason the creation is almost equal to masturbation is because the only way for God to get his kicks is through altruism, due to his spiritual nature, and since there was no one aside from him, there was no one to grant things to.
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all i know is: chain hang low = song of the year
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I don't believe in god.. if god existed the world wouldnt be as it is today.. plus i dont believe we are here to praise some allmighty power
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Im a Buddhist-Pagan-Muslim-Satanist-Jew. I rule.
http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=10907&first=yes
...and I believe we create our own sins. The Gods are above such mortal concepts.
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I think the most frequently used excuse for horrible things on earth is that God "gave us free will". So, if you want to cut the fingers of a 6 year old off just out of spite, you can cause God gave you free will to choose between good and evil.
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I think if there was no god, we would have destroyed ourselves hundreds of times over by now, and really to believe that the world and everything around us just exists for our own selfishness is crazy, we have every single thing we need on this earth naturally, I mean water, food, sun, nobody stops to think about that, we are so dependant on technology and man made bullshit that it just keeps you blind to whats up. You really think that a bunch of gases were just floating around in nothingness and somehow exploded and created a big bang, which created all these planets, and one just happened to be PERFECT, not just ok, but PERFECT for life to flourish, and then through millions of years of evolution we have humans, umm ok, how is my body better for survival than a fucking dinosaur or gorilla, we freeze to death when it gets cold, where are my claws to tear out a juggular? Thanks a lot mother nature.
And i'm not totally knocking evolution, but evolution does not disprove god as everyone likes to believe, evolution implies that we are going somewhere with it, it can't be some random never ending process, how is some magical force making everything evolve any less fantastical than Jesus.
And why is there no evolution occuring on the planet's around us, we know they have bacteria and all this shit, haven't those planets been around for just as long to cultivate something?
Everything has to have a beginning as well as an end.
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^if the planet wasnt PERFECT for us, we wouldnt be here, and another species wouldve emerged. doesnt take a brain surgeon.
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Then why aren't there other species emerging on other planets around us? We've had asteroids and shit with bacteria hit our planet, but for some reason they aren't evolving... if evolution is right, everything is moving at the same rate, otherwise we would have stuff in between man and ape, or any animal, but its not like that. Its really not that plausible or even more than a theory, everyone is trying to treat science like a religion, when all it does is explain what rather than why.
And I'm not saying no evolution has ever occured, but certainly not for the reasons they've decided on so far. If the overwhelming "instinct" in everything is survival no matter what and adapting and becoming better, it would not be limited to this planet, with these species, we've seen far better suited animals living on this planet than us, so we ate them and wore their fur.
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compared to the whole universe, the earth and the planets around us are small as fuck. SMALL AS FUCK. compared to the timespan the universe exists, the timespan in which humans existed is small as fuck. SMALL AS FUCK. just because we don't recognize any valuable life RIGHT NOW on the planets RIGHT AROUND US, it does not mean that there isn't any other way out of our reach, or that there hasn't been any life around here before.
plus, why do you think humans are so special? dinos existed way longer than we will, are they in heaven playing chess with God now? when did humans start to have a soul in the first place? do Neanderthal man have souls to? will we meet them in heaven and have contact with their retarded ass spiritual remains?
come on now.
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Yeah thats kind of my point man, the fact that on this random planet are all these different species and all kinds of shit, but around us as far as we can see into space, which is far now, is desolate planets. Planets have been around for millions and millions of years, yet not so much as a plant has grown, and unless earth was around before the other planets we should all be on the same track beginning with the big bang. If life just happens regardless of anything there is NO reason there shouldn't be signs of another kind of life around, the bacteria exists that we came from, where are the space hoes? Why do we have thoughts instead of actions from instincts? There's way too many holes in the theory, check my posts above. Again how is any religion any less crazy than evolution, what gives this power to everything to change universally with each animal regardless of what it personally went through, which is completely contradictory to evolution being out of its survival necessity, if life was meaningless there is no reason to survive, why did the evolution process decide to only evolve our brains and pretty much revert everthing else the animals have to survive.
Something has to set the rules to the universe, it was by gods understanding the universe was formed, he hung the earth upon nothing, this was revolutionary shit back then, and this was before they thought the earth was flat and some dude carried our planet on his shoulders.
And this planet has been around for a long ass time, where are all the bones of the inbetweens of evolution, did all the animals gather in their respective groups and share stories and decide on what they needed to change and just start fucking, and evolved out the pussy?
But yet thats just nonsense, of course our complex bodies and surrounding world that just happens to be the most beautiful shit any of us have seen is just the result of an accident, come on now.
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I want to make a point.Sikotic in order for God to prove to satan that we would choose God Over Satan,he made it possible for us to sin.
there must be bad with good,everything has a certain balance man,have yall noticed when someone dies in your family,either someone in your family or one of your freinds will have a baby,have you guys noticed thatthe very people who say don't tell,are the ones that end up telling?It is all a balance man
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I don't want to disillusion you. Life and everything around it is so wonderful and beautiful, there must be a creator... those unbelieveable, magnificent things have to be created by a higher power, way superior to us. In addition that higher power also really loves and cares about us, as we, the people, are such wonderful living beings.
How old are you?
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who me?I am 36,and I think sik is 21 but I have had first hand dealings with God and so I might see him a lil differently then you.............
was the ? for me
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No. I talked to "Smoke Break". I think you're either lying to yourself or to us when you claim that you had "first hand dealings with God", though.
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if you're talking to me i just turned 19 last week, obviously you have never read the bible, theres not much about people being good, God is always doing some mob shit, reminding us what pieces of shit we are, God is superior so bow down.
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lets puit it this way when I got raped I was told I'd be gotten out of it...........and He has never lied 2 me
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if you're talking to me i just turned 19 last week, obviously you have never read the bible, theres not much about people being good, God is always doing some mob shit, reminding us what pieces of shit we are, God is superior so bow down.
Oh, that's another thing. Fact: The image of God has changed throughout the bible. Why is that? Politics. The writers depicted God that way it was best at that time. Doesn't really add much to the credibility of the bible, or to the existance of God as a whole, does it?
Also funny: the same teenager that was like "our complex bodies and surrounding world that just happens to be the most beautiful shit any of us have seen" 10 minutes ago now argues that "God is always doing some mob shit, reminding us what pieces of shit we are".
You flip flop just like the bible, I bet John Kerry read the bible a lot.
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sikotic God is real hard to explain but let me try,he usually loves the sinner more then the save,he knows the saved belongs to him but the lost are lost and He wants them bad..........
it's like having kids man,wouldn't you go looking for one if it was lost?
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Okay, 1st, man corrupts everything he encounters, im sorry i keep trying to give a bible lesson here but just hear me out, when is religion not being manipulated in the bible, all the jewish(and today christian, muslim, and jewish) religious heads were corrupt or mislead, and weve seen the same story over and over throughout history, thats why I dont fuck with churches in my area, its always an entire congregation being led by one guy, theres too much responsibility with that going on that one wacko spawns too many others because of his false teachings. At the end of the bible it has a warning for anyone that is going to change the bible, to me that means somebody has. Today its still the same shit going on, you have child molester priests, lunatics, racists, outright liars, and the hustler type preacher we all know.
2nd, I never once said man was good or pure I said the world around us, space, mountains, oceans, beaches, flowers, trees, marijuana, and our bodies, the way they function is the amazing stuff.
7even- You're a pretty bright dude, you should check out a book called "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis, its for the intellectual to consider the thought of god, Ive read it and it was one of the more thought-provoking books ive read in a long time, but it doesn't focus on the bible as much as it does whether or not there could exist a creator, none of that oogie-boogie shit.
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Im a Buddhist-Pagan-Muslim-Satanist-Jew. I rule.
http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=10907&first=yes
...and I believe we create our own sins. The Gods are above such mortal concepts.
God wants us to be like him and in oreder for us to understand God we must unbderstand bad and good.
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2nd, I never once said man was good or pure I said the world around us, space, mountains, oceans, beaches, flowers, trees, marijuana, and our bodies, the way they function is the amazing stuff.
Well, I see. That stuff ain't too bad, but even humans have developped some shit that isn't less amazing. And it is only 2006. The stuff humans developped (plane, camera, computer etc) is superior to the things "God created". A good camera owns the human eye, a plane owns the human body, a computer owns the human brain capacity. Not in thinking, but in memorizing. Etc
About your 1st paragraph, there's not much to say. Just because many people are fuck-ups and assholes, it doesn't mean that there is a God.
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Flesh>>>Pixels ;D
But really since we are made in gods image, we're smart like him we can create things, we just dont have the ability to do it the way he does.
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Okay, 1st, man corrupts everything he encounters, im sorry i keep trying to give a bible lesson here but just hear me out, when is religion not being manipulated in the bible, all the jewish(and today christian, muslim, and jewish) religious heads were corrupt or mislead, and weve seen the same story over and over throughout history, thats why I dont fuck with churches in my area, its always an entire congregation being led by one guy, theres too much responsibility with that going on that one wacko spawns too many others because of his false teachings. At the end of the bible it has a warning for anyone that is going to change the bible, to me that means somebody has. Today its still the same shit going on, you have child molester priests, lunatics, racists, outright liars, and the hustler type preacher we all know.
2nd, I never once said man was good or pure I said the world around us, space, mountains, oceans, beaches, flowers, trees, marijuana, and our bodies, the way they function is the amazing stuff.
7even- You're a pretty bright dude, you should check out a book called "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis, its for the intellectual to consider the thought of god, Ive read it and it was one of the more thought-provoking books ive read in a long time, but it doesn't focus on the bible as much as it does whether or not there could exist a creator, none of that oogie-boogie shit.
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okay I like agree with the top of this............
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Wow, and intellegent convoersation in the TOT. Who would have known?
Well, I see. That stuff ain't too bad, but even humans have developped some shit that isn't less amazing. And it is only 2006. The stuff humans developped (plane, camera, computer etc) is superior to the things "God created". A good camera owns the human eye, a plane owns the human body, a computer owns the human brain capacity. Not in thinking, but in memorizing. Etc
A computer does not have more memory then the human brain.
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That got way off topic, but did god create sin? That's kind of a strange way to propose the question, it's not like there is an item of matter thats "sin". Your actions can be sinful, so I would say that God deemed things sinful, and in a world filled with diseased pussy and consequences for your misdeeds there is ample cause to listen, its funny that the 10 commandments are generally accepted amongst people regardless of law enforcement, don't kill me I wont kill you, don't fuck my wife I wont fuck yours for example.
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Wow, and intellegent convoersation in the TOT. Who would have known?
Well, I see. That stuff ain't too bad, but even humans have developped some shit that isn't less amazing. And it is only 2006. The stuff humans developped (plane, camera, computer etc) is superior to the things "God created". A good camera owns the human eye, a plane owns the human body, a computer owns the human brain capacity. Not in thinking, but in memorizing. Etc
A computer does not have more memory then the human brain.
My current computer has 300GB. Do you know how ridiculous that is? Save EVERY WORD that has EVER been posted on dubcc into a simple plain text file.. I don't know how much memory that would take up, maybe Seer knows. But I know that it would fit on my computer EASILY. Could you memorize everyhing - word by word - that has ever been posted on this board? Computers are fucking ridiculous. Heck, the internet is FUCKING INCREDIBLE. We're just so used to those things and the constant progress we make, that we don't give a fuck.
But yeah it doesn't matter how much our brains can memorize in comparison to a new computer, my point was just that the human body and nature is indeed fucking amazing, but so are things we created on our own, so all those things "God created" aren't THAT big of a deal. I mean, just think of what humans will be able to do with genetics in about 50 years... they will probably be able to simply create human hearts and shit. That's sick. Godsend.
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Wow, and intellegent convoersation in the TOT. Who would have known?
Well, I see. That stuff ain't too bad, but even humans have developped some shit that isn't less amazing. And it is only 2006. The stuff humans developped (plane, camera, computer etc) is superior to the things "God created". A good camera owns the human eye, a plane owns the human body, a computer owns the human brain capacity. Not in thinking, but in memorizing. Etc
A computer does not have more memory then the human brain.
My current computer has 300GB. Do you know how ridiculous that is? Save EVERY WORD that has EVER been posted on dubcc into a simple plain text file.. I don't know how much memory that would take up, maybe Seer knows. But I know that it would fit on my computer EASILY. Could you memorize everyhing - word by word - that has ever been posted on this board? Computers are fucking ridiculous. Heck, the internet is FUCKING INCREDIBLE. We're just so used to those things and the constant progress we make, that we don't give a fuck.
But yeah it doesn't matter how much our brains can memorize in comparison to a new computer, my point was just that the human body and nature is indeed fucking amazing, but so are things we created on our own, so all those things "God created" aren't THAT big of a deal. I mean, just think of what humans will be able to do with genetics in about 50 years... they will probably be able to simply create human hearts and shit. That's sick. Godsend.
Point taken, but the cpu memory >brain memory statement is false. If one were to read everything on dubcc there brain will store every word. Just because you can't recall it off the top of your head, doesn't mean it is not in your brain.
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Please read this
The reason why so many things happen on earth isnt because there is no God, it is because we have free will and as a human race we use that free will to deny god and refuse him to show up in our lifes which leaves room for the devil to come in and until we relise that we need God to come into our lives and he will come. thats how you see people getting healed of sickness and disability it is because they have allowed God to show up in there life. a perfect example of what i am talking about is Adam and Eve (who represent all of us living today) God offered them everlasting life to them no pain no sin no shame all they had to do was not eat from a tree which gave knowlege of good and bad (how easy is that to do) but the devil with his power of persuasion made adam and eve doubt what God had offered them just like us but now the devil doesnt even have to speak to us to get us to sin he can persuade us easily with the media, girls, guns, friends etc and we dont see anything wrong with it. since when is gay marriage/sex right i mean what kind of world do we live in.
for the people who are unsure about the existence of God (7even etc) i advise you please just to do more research on it read a bible, talk to a pastor, talk to some christians, watch some christian television before you make your mind up
i mean i was the same as you a few months ago maybe even worse: i was unsure about God, scared of dying,never read a bible in my life etc then i talked to some people who helped meand then i got born again (forgiven and filled with the holy spirit) in march 2006
God bless
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I've heard the free will thing multiple times over. In order to allow free will, then that means that good and evil had to be created BY GOD. Free will is the mechanism behind the choice of either good or bad, but someone created it, right?
Whenever I pose this question, I either get the free will explanation, which is a cop out, no answer at all, or the question gets avoided all together.
If God is sole creator of the universe and created everytthing within it, then where did sin come from? Only God has the ability to create, not the devil or any other supposed evil forces.
So if that's the case, does this mean the concept of God is flawed?
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sikotic God is real hard to explain but let me try,he usually loves the sinner more then the save,he knows the saved belongs to him but the lost are lost and He wants them bad..........
it's like having kids man,wouldn't you go looking for one if it was lost?
if god exicsted it wouldnt be a he.. and well it wouldnt be a she.. it would be a non-sex...
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sikotic God is real hard to explain but let me try,he usually loves the sinner more then the save,he knows the saved belongs to him but the lost are lost and He wants them bad..........
it's like having kids man,wouldn't you go looking for one if it was lost?
if god exicsted it wouldnt be a he.. and well it wouldnt be a she.. it would be a non-sex...
Exactly. The whole purpose of gender is for reproductive purposes. I don't think God would need a penis or vagina.
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i dont think God 'created' sin, it was always there, God just wouldnt sin... when he created everything else, it gave opportunity to other shit...
i think it's all too much for us to grasp anyways.. wouldnt get too worried about it.
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The reason why sin exists is because every force on earth has to have a reciprocal (good and bad, up and down etc) before God created the Earth it was void, dark and formless unti the light(god the reciprocal of darkness came down to create the earth. in heaven there is no sin cause there arent any forces in heaven only good but any where else there is sin. for example the devil used to be an arc angel (a good person) his name was Lucifer and he used to be an angel in heaven until he thought that he could be higher than God and had to be imediately cast down cause sin can't exist in heaven but it can anywhere else. that is why earth has good forces and bad forces operating on it but mostly bad forces because we have the authortiy and the god given free will to live in sin or live without it.
And to answer the question about God being a man or a woman god is neither man or woman we often refer to God as a man becuase he is our father who created us by his word just like a father creates a child and there is no other human way we could decribe him, i mean we cant call him: "it" or "a thing" because that would make him seem as if he is an object and we cant call him a woman cuz that would effeminate him and make him seem less powerful and emotional, there is now other word on earth except him or father, love, light or God that we can use to describe him.
people think that God is some 1000 foot man who sits in the cloud all day watching us which is not true his is a spritual force that we cant describe in many words, if you could desribe exactly what God is than he is just a regular thing or human.
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Please read this
The reason why so many things happen on earth isnt because there is no God, it is because we have free will and as a human race we use that free will to deny god and refuse him to show up in our lifes which leaves room for the devil to come in and until we relise that we need God to come into our lives and he will come. thats how you see people getting healed of sickness and disability it is because they have allowed God to show up in there life. a perfect example of what i am talking about is Adam and Eve (who represent all of us living today) God offered them everlasting life to them no pain no sin no shame all they had to do was not eat from a tree which gave knowlege of good and bad (how easy is that to do) but the devil with his power of persuasion made adam and eve doubt what God had offered them just like us but now the devil doesnt even have to speak to us to get us to sin he can persuade us easily with the media, girls, guns, friends etc and we dont see anything wrong with it. since when is gay marriage/sex right i mean what kind of world do we live in.
for the people who are unsure about the existence of God (7even etc) i advise you please just to do more research on it read a bible, talk to a pastor, talk to some christians, watch some christian television before you make your mind up
i mean i was the same as you a few months ago maybe even worse: i was unsure about God, scared of dying,never read a bible in my life etc then i talked to some people who helped meand then i got born again (forgiven and filled with the holy spirit) in march 2006
God bless
no direspect man, but i dont believe in god at all. i know plenty of christians and i live within 5 minutes of like 4 churches. still dont believe a word of it. ive only read small parts of the bible in english class, dont intend to ever actually read it. and im not afraid to die cus i know that theres no god to do anything to me. peace
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okay see i can see where you guys are getting the wrong messages.........so the ?is do you believe in satan?
answer yes or no and put your idea why down.
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I've heard the free will thing multiple times over. In order to allow free will, then that means that good and evil had to be created BY GOD. Free will is the mechanism behind the choice of either good or bad, but someone created it, right?
Whenever I pose this question, I either get the free will explanation, which is a cop out, no answer at all, or the question gets avoided all together.
If God is sole creator of the universe and created everytthing within it, then where did sin come from? Only God has the ability to create, not the devil or any other supposed evil forces.
So if that's the case, does this mean the concept of God is flawed?
Ok, you wanted to know if god created sin, and then when someone tells you its because of free will, you say its a cop-out? Sin isn't something god creates, it's an act that you choose to do, god told us what not to do, and to do those things is a sin, so it is you, not god, creating sin.
And your parents are right, it all comes down to faith, if you dont believe in any god, dont sweat it. That's what i've never understood, people want to be able to not beleive in god, but then turn around and basically try to convert you to what they beleive, and thats not directed at anyone here ive just noticed that from where i'm from.
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I'm not saying I don't believe in God. If I didn't I wouldn't of even made this topic. Sorry, but I'm not gonna go ahead and believe something that doesn't make sense just because a book says so. I've constantly been questioned about my beliefs by people because of the fact that I'm not ignorant, and I feel it's important to fully grasp a concept instead of blindly following it. Just because I question certain things doesn't mean I'm trying to shit on it, I wanna get a better understanding. Oranized religion tends to shun on this though. In order for there to be faith, there has to be some truth to it as well.
So if God did not create sin as you all say, then he's not the creator of all things, the alpha and the omega, as the Bible says. That is a contradiction.
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I'm not saying I don't believe in God. If I didn't I wouldn't of even made this topic. Sorry, but I'm not gonna go ahead and believe something that doesn't make sense just because a book says so. I've constantly been questioned about my beliefs by people because of the fact that I'm not ignorant, and I feel it's important to fully grasp a concept instead of blindly following it. Just because I question certain things doesn't mean I'm trying to shit on it, I wanna get a better understanding. Oranized religion tends to shun on this though. In order for there to be faith, there has to be some truth to it as well.
The problem is that it is impossible to fully understand the concept of God making a lot of your questions redundent. That's not saying you shouldn't question certain concepts people hold as truth, but you seem a little exasperated when these questions can't be answered by people.
So if God did not create sin as you all say, then he's not the creator of all things, the alpha and the omega, as the Bible says. That is a contradiction.
IMO God created everything. He gave us the choice of going by what he wants (the "good" thing), or to do what he doesn't want (sin). So yes, he did create sin. But when you look at sin, you can't just look at it as being wrong or right. Sin is just what God does not want us to do, and what He deemed incorrect (after all, He would know, he IS God). He gave us the free will to choose what we want to do. He created everything including sin, and gave us the choice of which one which one to fallow.
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I'm not trying to haze you or anything man, I think you've got the wrong idea of what i'm about. I get that all the time too, "intelligent" people always try and question what you beleive if you aren't retarded, and basically try convert you to whatever they think.
Organized religion will always end up fucked, if theres something to exploit theres always someone willing to do so, just read the bible for a hundred examples of that, especially with the church. The problem is people look to the preacher or what have you as their only source of the word, God is the creator of all things, logically how could anything exist without it first being created? Again, sin wasn't gods intention for us, but we choose to do it, I don't what you are getting hung up on, we have the ability to do so obviously, but look at it like this, since man created a camera like 7even was saying, would that mean that god had in fact created it? God laid the boundaries allowing there to be a "sin", that's why hes the judge.
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I'm not saying I don't believe in God. If I didn't I wouldn't of even made this topic. Sorry, but I'm not gonna go ahead and believe something that doesn't make sense just because a book says so. I've constantly been questioned about my beliefs by people because of the fact that I'm not ignorant, and I feel it's important to fully grasp a concept instead of blindly following it. Just because I question certain things doesn't mean I'm trying to shit on it, I wanna get a better understanding. Oranized religion tends to shun on this though. In order for there to be faith, there has to be some truth to it as well.
So if God did not create sin as you all say, then he's not the creator of all things, the alpha and the omega, as the Bible says. That is a contradiction.
The problem is that a lot of Christians / Muslims / whoever believe that simply questioning the validity of their belief is denouncing it. If you don't have a blind faith then you don't have faith at all. That alone should answer a lot of questions about the validity of any organized religion. You wouldn't last a day in this world if you took everything at face value, but for some reason we're supposed to take religion that way? Ha.
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none of you niggaz no what your talking about....just wait till u die...see where yall go
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damn it is true we have no idea what will happen til qwe die,but I like to make my peace with God before I die ya know?Feel Me?
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^^^yes me too....
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damn it is true we have no idea what will happen til qwe die,but I like to make my peace with God before I die ya know?Feel Me?
^^^yes me too....
So is the motivation wanting to worship God because you love him or because you want to use him as an insurance policy just in case there is a hell?
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I'm not saying I don't believe in God. If I didn't I wouldn't of even made this topic. Sorry, but I'm not gonna go ahead and believe something that doesn't make sense just because a book says so. I've constantly been questioned about my beliefs by people because of the fact that I'm not ignorant, and I feel it's important to fully grasp a concept instead of blindly following it. Just because I question certain things doesn't mean I'm trying to shit on it, I wanna get a better understanding. Oranized religion tends to shun on this though. In order for there to be faith, there has to be some truth to it as well.
The problem is that it is impossible to fully understand the concept of God making a lot of your questions redundent. That's not saying you shouldn't question certain concepts people hold as truth, but you seem a little exasperated when these questions can't be answered by people.
I agree with you about the concept of God being impossible to fully understand, however, we were given some insight on the concept of God through the Bible or whatever book you subscribe to (I'll refer to the Bible since it's what I know best). The Bible proclaims God as The Creator, no "ifs", "ands", or "buts" about it. So basically we can assume that he is the creator of ALL things, there's no disputing that.
Now, when I ask someone that if God is The Creator, does that mean he created sin, I get one of 3 responses:
1) How dare you say that!!!
2) You have to have faith
3) Of course not
When I get answer number 3, the person usually goes off into a tangent on purpose. Of course it's obvious that nobody really knows the answer to this, but the fact that the question I posed led to either someone lying to me or completely denying the validity of the question because it questioned their faith was interesting.
IMO God created everything. He gave us the choice of going by what he wants (the "good" thing), or to do what he doesn't want (sin). So yes, he did create sin. But when you look at sin, you can't just look at it as being wrong or right. Sin is just what God does not want us to do, and what He deemed incorrect (after all, He would know, he IS God). He gave us the free will to choose what we want to do. He created everything including sin, and gave us the choice of which one which one to fallow.
So far I actually think you've made the most sense in this entire thread.
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Allah did not create sin. Yakub, on the other hand, created the white devil, the human incarnation of sin.
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Wow, my Karma dropped -4 in the last half hour for that post above.
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damn it is true we have no idea what will happen til qwe die,but I like to make my peace with God before I die ya know?Feel Me?
^^^yes me too....
So is the motivation wanting to worship God because you love him or because you want to use him as an insurance policy just in case there is a hell?
to worship god....
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Wow, my Karma dropped -4 in the last half hour for that post above.
yea my karma dropped from 96 to 90 LOL...someone has a hard on 4 me...
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I've been arguing this with my family for the past 3 hours.
Since, according to the Bible or whatever religious text you subscribe to, God is the creator of ALL things. Does that mean he created sin/evil? But I thought he was a God of love?
I'm saying that this is a contradiction in the concept of God. My family take the ignorant route and say that I can't understand what they understand because they have faith and I don't yadda yadda yadda.
So discuss.
sin is when u disobey god.
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sikotic we could discuss God all day and never be able to answer the quewstion right,I believe that God created sin so we could get closer to Him,and if we didn't have something bad then we wouldn't appreciate the good
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religions the root of all evil.
on that note, my karma's about to take a lil dip as well
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religions the root of all evil.
See, I used to feel that way, but I wouldn't go that far.
On a small scale, it's a good thing. I know a few people that were living really bad. They were either gonna wind up in jail or dead in a matter of years, simple as that.
They tried rehab, shrinks, medication, nothing worked. They would temporarily stop, but those urges for self-destruction kept making them relapse.
They started reading the Bible, praying, etc. and they've made complete 180 degree turns in their lives. It's amazing how they were doomed at one point and now they've cleaned up their act. They claim God is working in their lives.
Now, I've never experienced this, personally, but I can't deny that the impact of religion on these people's lives IS real.
That's on a personal level. On the large scale, with churches, organizations, and some evangelists, I'm very skeptical of them. It's funny how many religious organizations and ministers are caught up with fraud and tax evasion, etc. etc. How they always have something to sell & a scheme to make money. They usually incite religious hatred towards other religions as well in order to gain more supporters.
Organized religion, for the most part, is a scam in my opinion. If you find God in your life, it's suppose to be a personal relationship. You don't need a pastor to tell you shit.
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religions the root of all evil.
See, I used to feel that way, but I wouldn't go that far.
On a small scale, it's a good thing. I know a few people that were living really bad. They were either gonna wind up in jail or dead in a matter of years, simple as that.
They tried rehab, shrinks, medication, nothing worked. They would temporarily stop, but those urges for self-destruction kept making them relapse.
They started reading the Bible, praying, etc. and they've made complete 180 degree turns in their lives. It's amazing how they were doomed at one point and now they've cleaned up their act. They claim God is working in their lives.
Now, I've never experienced this, personally, but I can't deny that the impact of religion on these people's lives IS real.
That's on a personal level. On the large scale, with churches, organizations, and some evangelists, I'm very skeptical of them. It's funny how many religious organizations and ministers are caught up with fraud and tax evasion, etc. etc. How they always have something to sell & a scheme to make money. They usually incite religious hatred towards other religions as well in order to gain more supporters.
Organized religion, for the most part, is a scam in my opinion. If you find God in your life, it's suppose to be a personal relationship. You don't need a pastor to tell you shit.
best way ive ever heard it put.
i was bein too broad in what i was saying. if it 'saves' someone, then religion can be very beneficial. its the religious leaders who are bad. misinterpretation of faiths starts with them, which leads to wars. they also assist in the use of religion for governmental advantage at times which is not a good thing at all, and they milk followers out of their cash. at least thats how i see it.
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religions the root of all evil.
See, I used to feel that way, but I wouldn't go that far.
On a small scale, it's a good thing. I know a few people that were living really bad. They were either gonna wind up in jail or dead in a matter of years, simple as that.
They tried rehab, shrinks, medication, nothing worked. They would temporarily stop, but those urges for self-destruction kept making them relapse.
They started reading the Bible, praying, etc. and they've made complete 180 degree turns in their lives. It's amazing how they were doomed at one point and now they've cleaned up their act. They claim God is working in their lives.
Now, I've never experienced this, personally, but I can't deny that the impact of religion on these people's lives IS real.
That's on a personal level. On the large scale, with churches, organizations, and some evangelists, I'm very skeptical of them. It's funny how many religious organizations and ministers are caught up with fraud and tax evasion, etc. etc. How they always have something to sell & a scheme to make money. They usually incite religious hatred towards other religions as well in order to gain more supporters.
Organized religion, for the most part, is a scam in my opinion. If you find God in your life, it's suppose to be a personal relationship. You don't need a pastor to tell you shit.
best way ive ever heard it put.
i was bein too broad in what i was saying. if it 'saves' someone, then religion can be very beneficial. its the religious leaders who are bad. misinterpretation of faiths starts with them, which leads to wars. they also assist in the use of religion for governmental advantage at times which is not a good thing at all, and they milk followers out of their cash. at least thats how i see it.
Exactly!
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I've been arguing this with my family for the past 3 hours.
Since, according to the Bible or whatever religious text you subscribe to, God is the creator of ALL things. Does that mean he created sin/evil? But I thought he was a God of love?
I'm saying that this is a contradiction in the concept of God. My family take the ignorant route and say that I can't understand what they understand because they have faith and I don't yadda yadda yadda.
So discuss.
God created all things and all conditions, no Creator but God. God created the sun, no Creator but God. God created the moon, no Creator but God. God created the rain, no Creator but God. God changes the form of rain, and makes ice, sleet, snow, fog, mist, hail. God is the Creator of all conditions, happiness, sadness, no Creator but God.
God created the condition of sin, no Creator but God. If you want to have your sins forgiven you can go to none other but God, for he created the condition of sin, no Creator but God. This is the straight path of Islam. Man needs no intercessor between him and his Creator, that is the true religion, right and straight, regardless of it's name and language.
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^ Makes perfect sense to me as well.
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well sikotic I think u put it best man
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well sikotic I think u put it best man
Thank you, my dear.
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your very welcome,that is part of the reason I am not attending church right now is because if I tithe then I think they will steal it...........
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"NWA" you shouldnt let that stop you from going to church. you shoud just tithe out of faith, if they steal your tithes then they will be sent to hell because thats stealing money from God. i know there are some fake Christians out there but there are some good ones also
Bless.
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okay you know what ur right,I really should stop and "think" about this church,and if it looks good then I am goinmg back ;D
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If everything came from one source (God), then evil had to have come from that source as well.