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Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: sonofisis on June 13, 2007, 05:53:28 PM

Title: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: sonofisis on June 13, 2007, 05:53:28 PM
This is a fascinating  question to me with an interesting paradox. I'm looking for insight as I've been pondering lately on whether or not it should be possible for God to kill himself. We know that by definition God is omnipotent(all powerful),  it is apparent however, that if this were to be true, then God would indeed be undestroyable and able to create/destroy anything at the same time as by definition there is no limit to what he can do.. Now, given that, is it theoretically possible that God(being almighty as he is) would have the capability to kill himself, or since he is undestroyable, is that out of the question? And if it is out of the question wouldn't this mean that God has limits and is therefore not omnipotent/all powerful? Something to think about, any replies are welcome.. 8)
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: MC TenderLust on June 13, 2007, 06:32:24 PM
nigga i dont think god is some dude posted up in the sky, god is like some energy force that runs through everything in the universe so nah i dont think "he" could "kill" "himself"
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: sonofisis on June 13, 2007, 08:19:29 PM
^Interesting take, but are you suggesting that God is incapable of cancelling out or destroying energy?
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: AndrE16686 on June 13, 2007, 09:46:20 PM
I don't think we can define God within terms of power. What is power? Power to create and destroy? Black holes can destroy anything, yet they are nothing within the context of the Universe. Nebulae give birth to thousands of star clusters, yet again they are nothing within the context of the infinite immensity of the Universe.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: -Euthanasia- on June 13, 2007, 09:51:55 PM
I see you just started Philosophy 101. I hated that class. Pseudo-intellectuals.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Chief on June 13, 2007, 10:31:50 PM
why would god want to kill himself?
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: 7even on June 14, 2007, 04:50:13 AM
Now, of course God doesn't exist and everything, but hypothetically speaking of course he would be able to destroy himself. A great warrior who can't be fucked with still can slit his damn throat if he wants to. Just because nothing else can destroy him doesn't mean he can't... but I think it is pretty retarded actually, that's like asking if God can make french fries that are so damn hot that not even he himself can eat them. LOL.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: sonofisis on June 14, 2007, 12:01:28 PM
Now, of course God doesn't exist and everything, but hypothetically speaking of course he would be able to destroy himself. A great warrior who can't be fucked with still can slit his damn throat if he wants to. Just because nothing else can destroy him doesn't mean he can't... but I think it is pretty retarded actually, that's like asking if God can make french fries that are so damn hot that not even he himself can eat them. LOL.

You either did not get the gist of what was being asked, or simply don't have a clear understanding on what the word "omnipotence" means. It wasn't a stupid question that can be easily answered, which is why I was looking for insight.

Actually, I did not know until earlier this morning when I started doing google searches on it, that wikipedia actually has an article covering the Omnipotence paradox..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Teddy Roosevelt on June 14, 2007, 12:04:48 PM
why would god want to kill himself?
Not really relevent.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Facez on June 14, 2007, 12:27:03 PM
i dont think that God can commit suicide; (these are my thoughts)

1st reason is because he is good and why would good want to kill itself, 2nd because God is the highest authority and death doesnt have any power over him, and 3rd because death is a creation, it only exists on earth even when we die (in our flesh) on earth we live forever in the spirit either in heaven or hell. death can kill god cuz thats like saying can a human (which is a creation) kill god. outside this world there is life because as i stated before God is life (life is something that wasnt created) it existed at the begining. that is why god says that he is the alpha and omega.

Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: 7even on June 14, 2007, 02:47:22 PM
Now, of course God doesn't exist and everything, but hypothetically speaking of course he would be able to destroy himself. A great warrior who can't be fucked with still can slit his damn throat if he wants to. Just because nothing else can destroy him doesn't mean he can't... but I think it is pretty retarded actually, that's like asking if God can make french fries that are so damn hot that not even he himself can eat them. LOL.

You either did not get the gist of what was being asked, or simply don't have a clear understanding on what the word "omnipotence" means. It wasn't a stupid question that can be easily answered, which is why I was looking for insight.

Actually, I did not know until earlier this morning when I started doing google searches on it, that wikipedia actually has an article covering the Omnipotence paradox..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

Actually, I understood perfectly what was going on and you didn't understand what I said. Actually I have read stuff written by Descartes. Stop making a fool out of yourself.


Edit: Now that I have looked at that link you gave us, here's what I've found:

Quote
The omnipotence paradox has infiltrated popular culture. In an episode of popular US animated series The Simpsons entitled 'Weekend at Burnsie's', Homer asks rhetorically, "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?".

Here's a quote taken from my 1st post in this thread:

Quote
[...]that's like asking if God can make french fries that are so damn hot that not even he himself can eat them.

See the similarity? Good.

Now, whether the question is "stupid" or not can of course be debated. I wasn't trying to aggrieve you, sorry if that happened.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Sparegeez on June 14, 2007, 05:44:23 PM
I think the question we need to answer before we answer this is "What is god?"
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: sonofisis on June 14, 2007, 06:56:57 PM
^^Why should we have to discuss that if I already drew the parameters for this thread? He's an "omnipotent" being..

I don't think we can define God within terms of power. What is power? Power to create and destroy? Black holes can destroy anything, yet they are nothing within the context of the Universe. Nebulae give birth to thousands of star clusters, yet again they are nothing within the context of the infinite immensity of the Universe.

Again, I'm only concerned with God as an omnipotent being..

i dont think that God can commit suicide; (these are my thoughts)

1st reason is because he is good and why would good want to kill itself,

^I love this response.. Indeed, God has free will but his will is not to Kill/destroy life energy... Good one..

 
Quote
2nd because God is the highest authority and death doesnt have any power over him,

I can make sense of this by applying it to your first response..

 
Quote
and 3rd because death is a creation, it only exists on earth even when we die (in our flesh) on earth we live forever in the spirit either in heaven or hell. death can't kill god cuz thats like saying can a human (which is a creation) kill god. outside this world there is life because as i stated before God is life (life is something that wasnt created) it existed at the begining. that is why god says that he is the alpha and omega.

Most beautiful response yet. I didn't sit and think of it in that way. With death being a creation that is equatable to human beings themselves, therefore neither one can affect God as God created them both. I was also thinking myself that it doesn't have to be a paradox because if(big if) God were indeed able to destroy its self,  then it should be able to bring its self back into existence(excuse the impersonal language, but of course God doesn't have a gender).. Quality reply..


Quote from: 7even
Actually, I understood perfectly what was going on and you didn't understand what I said. Actually I have read stuff written by Descartes. Stop making a fool out of yourself.

There is no possible way to infer that I made a fool of myself by alluding to your lack of comprehension. In fact, it seems even more apparent now that you feel a need to save face/pride.


Quote
Edit: Now that I have looked at that link you gave us, here's what I've found:

"The omnipotence paradox has infiltrated popular culture. In an episode of popular US animated series The Simpsons entitled 'Weekend at Burnsie's', Homer asks rhetorically, "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?"

Here's a quote taken from my 1st post in this thread:

"that's like asking if God can make french fries that are so damn hot that not even he himself can eat them"

See the similarity? Good.

Your point is mute and this is a Straw Man; you also conveniently quote yourself out of context with the wiki article to give the illusion as if what you say coincides with it, which is sort of pathetic. This is what you actually said and what I directly responded to.

Quote
Now, of course God doesn't exist and everything, but hypothetically speaking of course he would be able to destroy himself. A great warrior who can't be fucked with still can slit his damn throat if he wants to. Just because nothing else can destroy him doesn't mean he can't... but I think it is pretty retarded actually

You say Of course he wouldn't be able to destroy him self with out giving an adequate answer as to why, and compare him to a mortal warrior. This immediately leads me to question how you're defining omnipotent. Then you call the question retarded even though you were not able to adequately answer this retarded question. smh..

Quote
Now, whether the question is "stupid" or not can of course be debated.
No it cannot be debated because it is a seemingly clear paradox that only sound minds are able to tackle(this is where you've failed)..

Quote
I wasn't trying to aggrieve you, sorry if that happened.

??? Don't flatter your self pal, lol..

Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on June 14, 2007, 08:24:28 PM
God can't live and die.  He can't commit suicide.  He is eternal, absolute, and Infnite.  But some religions have deviated from this truth, like in Christianity for example, Paul started teaching that Jesus, a human, was actually a God.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Shallow on June 14, 2007, 08:58:09 PM
God can't live and die.  He can't commit suicide.  He is eternal, absolute, and Infnite.  But some religions have deviated from this truth, like in Christianity for example, Paul started teaching that Jesus, a human, was actually a God.


I have more problems with Paul than you do but even in Matthew it's shown that Jesus was worshipped. Let's not even get into John.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Chief on June 15, 2007, 03:47:27 AM
why would god want to kill himself?
Not really relevent.

isnt it?
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: 7even on June 15, 2007, 04:31:26 AM
sonofisis, why have you responded to that? lol...
I quoted myself out of context? do you have to rely on retarded claims as the foundation for your irrational assumptions? it really is sort of sad that I have to explain everything I say for you to grasp it. I feel like a teacher who went into the wrong room and finds himself in a special ed class. do you honestly think I "couldn't grasp" the paradox? that is absurd. nigga just because I don't analyse the paradox neatly and give you props for that dope question or something, doesn't mean I didn't grasp it. actually it is quite unrealistic to not grasp it because it is not very hard to grasp, especially for somebody who studies philosophy in an elite university and has to put up with the views of men who died hundreds of years ago on retarded constructions such as this question.

ok, here's my take on why the mortal warrior part was actually not ignoring an accurate definition of omnipotent. I didn't think it was necessary, as it is not really that deep or anything, but for slow learners such as yourself it might be. for the people, god is so powerful and shit, they can't grasp his power because it goes beyond their imagination. there is nothing they can grasp that he can't do. or so they think. now, as with god, a great warrior who can't be defeated doesn't exist neither, but in tales they do. imagine someone like achilles only without that vulnerable spot in the leg. fine. nobody would be able to beat him in a battle, but he would definitely be able to kill himself. that is the case for 2 reasons: being omnipotent is always a matter of perception. as conceived in the feeble minds of the inferior people, their greatest warrior can't be fucked with. such like god can't be fucked with. like a great warrior, god is so much more powerful than the average believer, that in comparison to them he seems to be omnipotent which leads to them thinking the way they do. but what would the great warrior be amoungst warriors just as great? what would god be amoungst other equally powerful gods? would they still be omnipotent? if so, what would happen in a fight? it doesn't work. now, as it is about him killing himself, it can be seen as the same thing as an equally powerful god killing him. like an equally powerful warrior killing the warrior. for what the slave perceives the warrior as, the warrior is unfuckwitable. for the preacher god is unfuckwitable. but that is only how it is conceived in their minds, as they don't know anything else that comes anywhere close to them in matters of power and therefore omnipotence.
another reason for god to be able to kill himself despite his omnipotence would be that a being that is capable of everything should be able to do anyfuckingthing it wants. that includes committing suicide. why wouldn't an all-mighty being be able to kill itself? it doesn't make sense to me lmao. how is not being able to do something (e.g. killing yourself) a part of being omnipotent? doesn't make any sense does it. in your feeble mind you might think that being omnipotent requires being indestructable. that is not entirely true. indestructable by someone inferior, yes. but only because the omnipotent being is that much more powerful, not because it is universally indestructable to begin with.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Raphael on June 15, 2007, 06:30:41 AM
 :sleep:
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Chief on June 15, 2007, 07:07:33 AM
sonofisis, why have you responded to that? lol...
I quoted myself out of context? do you have to rely on retarded claims as the foundation for your irrational assumptions? it really is sort of sad that I have to explain everything I say for you to grasp it. I feel like a teacher who went into the wrong room and finds himself in a special ed class. do you honestly think I "couldn't grasp" the paradox? that is absurd. nigga just because I don't analyse the paradox neatly and give you props for that dope question or something, doesn't mean I didn't grasp it. actually it is quite unrealistic to not grasp it because it is not very hard to grasp, especially for somebody who studies philosophy in an elite university and has to put up with the views of men who died hundreds of years ago on retarded constructions such as this question.

ok, here's my take on why the mortal warrior part was actually not ignoring an accurate definition of omnipotent. I didn't think it was necessary, as it is not really that deep or anything, but for slow learners such as yourself it might be. for the people, god is so powerful and shit, they can't grasp his power because it goes beyond their imagination. there is nothing they can grasp that he can't do. or so they think. now, as with god, a great warrior who can't be defeated doesn't exist neither, but in tales they do. imagine someone like achilles only without that vulnerable spot in the leg. fine. nobody would be able to beat him in a battle, but he would definitely be able to kill himself. that is the case for 2 reasons: being omnipotent is always a matter of perception. as conceived in the feeble minds of the inferior people, their greatest warrior can't be fucked with. such like god can't be fucked with. like a great warrior, god is so much more powerful than the average believer, that in comparison to them he seems to be omnipotent which leads to them thinking the way they do. but what would the great warrior be amoungst warriors just as great? what would god be amoungst other equally powerful gods? would they still be omnipotent? if so, what would happen in a fight? it doesn't work. now, as it is about him killing himself, it can be seen as the same thing as an equally powerful god killing him. like an equally powerful warrior killing the warrior. for what the slave perceives the warrior as, the warrior is unfuckwitable. for the preacher god is unfuckwitable. but that is only how it is conceived in their minds, as they don't know anything else that comes anywhere close to them in matters of power and therefore omnipotence.
another reason for god to be able to kill himself despite his omnipotence would be that a being that is capable of everything should be able to do anyfuckingthing it wants. that includes committing suicide. why wouldn't an all-mighty being be able to kill itself? it doesn't make sense to me lmao. how is not being able to do something (e.g. killing yourself) a part of being omnipotent? doesn't make any sense does it. in your feeble mind you might think that being omnipotent requires being indestructable. that is not entirely true. indestructable by someone inferior, yes. but only because the omnipotent being is that much more powerful, not because it is universally indestructable to begin with.

crazy karma
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Elevz on June 15, 2007, 07:17:41 AM
a being that is capable of everything should be able to do anyfuckingthing it wants. that includes committing suicide. why wouldn't an all-mighty being be able to kill itself? it doesn't make sense to me lmao. how is not being able to do something (e.g. killing yourself) a part of being omnipotent? doesn't make any sense does it. in your feeble mind you might think that being omnipotent requires being indestructable. that is not entirely true. indestructable by someone inferior, yes. but only because the omnipotent being is that much more powerful, not because it is universally indestructable to begin with.

I don't know why it took you so long to get to that point, but that I agree with. If it were for true omnipotence, not for conceived omnipotence, how could there be multiple omnipotent beings at all? Wouldn't they limit the omnipotence of one another?

Cosigned and propped.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: J @ M @ L on June 15, 2007, 10:11:39 AM
No

1. You have to distinguish humans and their attributes from God's. God as a being is inconceivable to us. Time, life, death, pain, etc... none of that shit may even apply to God... those things may not even exist in God's realm... he may just have created the notions for humans. Just because one can use force/power to kill a human, doesn't mean the same is possible to result in the "death" of God. God created the concept of death... for humans.

2. When you pose a question of that sort, you'd have to look at more than just one attribute. For example, in Islam, another of God's attributes/names is Al-Baaqi (The Everlasting, The One that the state of non-existence is impossible for Him).... so to a Muslim, that would be a sufficient explanation.

3. One will then argue: well if God is omnipotent and can do anything, then he should be able to kill himself... but the fallacy lies in the assumption that death is even possible for God in the first place. It's like asking "Can God make a three sided square?"... "Can God make it so that 1 is greater than 2?". Logic limits omnipotence.


Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Chief on June 15, 2007, 11:06:14 AM

1. You have to distinguish humans and their attributes from God's. God as a being is inconceivable to us. Time, life, death, pain, etc... none of that shit may even apply to God... those things may not even exist in God's realm... he may just have created the notions for humans. Just because one can use force/power to kill a human, doesn't mean the same is possible to result in the "death" of God. God created the concept of death... for humans.


so wouldnt christianity make sense in that regard?
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: J @ M @ L on June 15, 2007, 11:47:46 AM

1. You have to distinguish humans and their attributes from God's. God as a being is inconceivable to us. Time, life, death, pain, etc... none of that shit may even apply to God... those things may not even exist in God's realm... he may just have created the notions for humans. Just because one can use force/power to kill a human, doesn't mean the same is possible to result in the "death" of God. God created the concept of death... for humans.


so wouldnt christianity make sense in that regard?

Can you be more specific as to what you're talking about?
I'm assuming you're referring to Jesus being God (correct me if I'm wrong), but if that's the case, then no, it's not the same thing.
Jesus was human, he lived amongst humans, he was constrained to time and space just like everyone else, he ate food for survival, etc...
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Facez on June 15, 2007, 12:00:44 PM
God can't live and die.  He can't commit suicide.  He is eternal, absolute, and Infnite.  But some religions have deviated from this truth, like in Christianity for example, Paul started teaching that Jesus, a human, was actually a God.


I have more problems with Paul than you do but even in Matthew it's shown that Jesus was worshipped. Let's not even get into John.

it is hard for a lot of non-chrisitians misinformed people to understand how Jesus can be God. so i am going to try and explain it hopefully you will understand

Christians believe Jesus was god but believe he is the son of man (a human), so how can he be both? does the bible contradict itself thats probably what a lot of misinformed people would think because they lack knowledge of the bible.

there is a principal in the bible that  people are spirit beings who posses an earthly suit (a body/flesh). our flesh is born of this world this side is weak, this is the side that: feels pain, cries, lusts etc, it desires food to live. the spirit gives life to the body it is where we get our ability to acquire knowledge, speak, and basically live. even though our flesh side is weak it overpowers the spirit and since we were born our flesh side trains our spirit on how to think what to do therefore making the spirit side weak, that is why a lot of us are weak and desire things of the world.

in order for gods will to be carried out on earth he needed a body. When Jesus was born instead of him being fully human and having a weak spirit and then eventually sinning god became his spirit and lived inside of him so that his spirit was strong from birth and so that hes flesh wouldn't over power him and cause him to sin.

here is an example from the bible from 1 Timothy 3:16

(16)And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

even though Jesus had God spirit inside of him he still had a human side because he was born of a woman (that is why he cried, grieved, and had to eat). because Jesus had a human side he had to train it with the word of God and d walk in godliness (reading the bible from a young age, going to synagogues, fasting etc) so that he would fall into not sin (walking in the flesh).

in order for people to live a Godly life the have to something called being born of the spirit this is basically being "born again" which is a renewal of your spirit to a Godly one (which is stronger than the flesh) and then basically doing what Jesus did (read the word of god, fasted, avoided sin, going to synagogues/church) in order to feed your spirit so that you do not fall into sin

John 3:5 (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

why? because John3:6 says: (6)That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"

i hope you understood that.

thanks for the responses Sonofisis. this is an interesting thread/topic
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Narrator on June 15, 2007, 12:02:23 PM
I am GOD.  And I will not commit suicide.  I will, however, kill lots of crackers.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: AndrE16686 on June 15, 2007, 11:17:46 PM


it is hard for a lot of non-chrisitians misinformed people to understand how Jesus can be God. so i am going to try and explain it hopefully you will understand

Christians believe Jesus was god but believe he is the son of man (a human), so how can he be both? does the bible contradict itself thats probably what a lot of misinformed people would think because they lack knowledge of the bible.

there is a principal in the bible that  people are spirit beings who posses an earthly suit (a body/flesh). our flesh is born of this world this side is weak, this is the side that: feels pain, cries, lusts etc, it desires food to live. the spirit gives life to the body it is where we get our ability to acquire knowledge, speak, and basically live. even though our flesh side is weak it overpowers the spirit and since we were born our flesh side trains our spirit on how to think what to do therefore making the spirit side weak, that is why a lot of us are weak and desire things of the world.

in order for gods will to be carried out on earth he needed a body. When Jesus was born instead of him being fully human and having a weak spirit and then eventually sinning god became his spirit and lived inside of him so that his spirit was strong from birth and so that hes flesh wouldn't over power him and cause him to sin.

here is an example from the bible from 1 Timothy 3:16

(16)And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

even though Jesus had God spirit inside of him he still had a human side because he was born of a woman (that is why he cried, grieved, and had to eat). because Jesus had a human side he had to train it with the word of God and d walk in godliness (reading the bible from a young age, going to synagogues, fasting etc) so that he would fall into not sin (walking in the flesh).

in order for people to live a Godly life the have to something called being born of the spirit this is basically being "born again" which is a renewal of your spirit to a Godly one (which is stronger than the flesh) and then basically doing what Jesus did (read the word of god, fasted, avoided sin, going to synagogues/church) in order to feed your spirit so that you do not fall into sin

John 3:5 (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

why? because John3:6 says: (6)That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"

i hope you understood that.

thanks for the responses Sonofisis. this is an interesting thread/topic


Props man, I enjoyed that. Ive wondering why for a long time why some people (Sufis, Rastafarians, Wu-tang) say God is a living man.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Chief on June 16, 2007, 01:18:55 AM

1. You have to distinguish humans and their attributes from God's. God as a being is inconceivable to us. Time, life, death, pain, etc... none of that shit may even apply to God... those things may not even exist in God's realm... he may just have created the notions for humans. Just because one can use force/power to kill a human, doesn't mean the same is possible to result in the "death" of God. God created the concept of death... for humans.


so wouldnt christianity make sense in that regard?

Can you be more specific as to what you're talking about?
I'm assuming you're referring to Jesus being God (correct me if I'm wrong), but if that's the case, then no, it's not the same thing.
Jesus was human, he lived amongst humans, he was constrained to time and space just like everyone else, he ate food for survival, etc...

nah, what i meant is communicating to god through jesus.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: sonofisis on June 16, 2007, 01:59:09 AM
sonofisis, why have you responded to that? lol...
I quoted myself out of context? do you have to rely on retarded claims as the foundation for your irrational assumptions? it really is sort of sad that I have to explain everything I say for you to grasp it. I feel like a teacher who went into the wrong room and finds himself in a special ed class. do you honestly think I "couldn't grasp" the paradox? that is absurd. nigga just because I don't analyse the paradox neatly and give you props for that dope question or something, doesn't mean I didn't grasp it. actually it is quite unrealistic to not grasp it because it is not very hard to grasp, especially for somebody who studies philosophy in an elite university and has to put up with the views of men who died hundreds of years ago on retarded constructions such as this question.

This is obviously full of double talk, cop-outs, and lies as it took you eons after conducting original research by way of google and the wiki link that I provided for you to even address the question, and as you will see, you still have not adequately addressed it as Facez has. You have an apparent incapacity to comprehend and apply what you say logically in order to give your drawn out explanation some type of cohesion. Taking into consideration your unusual analogy about a teacher entering a classroom for special ed, inversely it seems as if you've flunked special ed. You try so desperately to save face and spin your position that any sound mind can tell that you are merely a fraud atheist that doesn't know anything.

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ok, here's my take on why the mortal warrior part was actually not ignoring an accurate definition of omnipotent. I didn't think it was necessary, as it is not really that deep or anything, but for slow learners such as yourself it might be. for the people, god is so powerful and shit, they can't grasp his power because it goes beyond their imagination. there is nothing they can grasp that he can't do. or so they think. now, as with god, a great warrior who can't be defeated doesn't exist neither, but in tales they do. imagine someone like achilles only without that vulnerable spot in the leg. fine. nobody would be able to beat him in a battle, but he would definitely be able to kill himself. that is the case for 2 reasons: being omnipotent is always a matter of perception. as conceived in the feeble minds of the inferior people, their greatest warrior can't be fucked with. such like god can't be fucked with. like a great warrior, god is so much more powerful than the average believer, that in comparison to them he seems to be omnipotent which leads to them thinking the way they do. but what would the great warrior be amoungst warriors just as great? what would god be amoungst other equally powerful gods? would they still be omnipotent? if so, what would happen in a fight? it doesn't work. now, as it is about him killing himself, it can be seen as the same thing as an equally powerful god killing him. like an equally powerful warrior killing the warrior. for what the slave perceives the warrior as, the warrior is unfuckwitable. for the preacher god is unfuckwitable. but that is only how it is conceived in their minds, as they don't know anything else that comes anywhere close to them in matters of power and therefore omnipotence. another reason for god to be able to kill himself despite his omnipotence would be that a being that is capable of everything should be able to do anyfuckingthing it wants. that includes committing suicide. why wouldn't an all-mighty being be able to kill itself? it doesn't make sense to me lmao. how is not being able to do something (e.g. killing yourself) a part of being omnipotent? doesn't make any sense does it. in your feeble mind you might think that being omnipotent requires being indestructable. that is not entirely true. indestructable by someone inferior, yes. but only because the omnipotent being is that much more powerful, not because it is universally indestructable to begin with.

This is so utterly falsified and ridiculous and ultimately makes you look like a total buffoon as you cannot even come to grips with simple word definitions. The most widely circulated definition of Omnipotent as it applies to God is "all powerful/eternal"(all mighty), you are applying a definition of "relatively more powerful", which is absurd as it pertains to the literal interpretation of the paradox presented(wikipedia covers 4 angles, I cover 1). All powerful = indestructible as much as it means eternal, eternal meaning deathless, so God should not be able to kill himself under the circumstances which you grant him. But at the same time he should because he is "all powerful"! Although again, "Facez" has proposed a logical answer to the paradox as far as I'm concerned, even while taking these variables into consideration(you haven't). You make absolutely no sense and it is simply too late for you to start saving face now as you have been busted, your incompetence exposed. Please either participate in the engagement/interaction or let other people discuss this if it is too confusing, but do not come here trying to feign intellectualism as the dishonesty sticks out like frozen nipples.  ::)
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: 7even on June 16, 2007, 03:54:18 AM
^What you don't get is, to me religious answers are the cop-outs. They just "believe" in something and then it's done with. You either didn't understand my post or/and tried your best to discredit it because your afrocentric ass hates me. Either way you are blatantly biased and more open to an answer involving spirituality and shit. And stop your invalid assumptions they don't make you look any better.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Elevz on June 16, 2007, 06:05:06 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I thought this was a discussion about the possible fallacy of the possibility of omnipotence. Then what difference does it make in what way the gospel of Timothy portrays God's identity - that has little to do with the question, or has it? The rational possible existance of omnipotence can only be explained through ratio, not through Timothy's conceptions of spirituality.

So if the question is really about omnipotence, and not about God's identity, I fail to see what all the fuss is about.

om·nip·o·tent (ŏm-nĭp'ə-tənt) pronunciation
adj.

Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful.


http://www.answers.com/omnipotent

All powerful = indestructible as much as it means eternal, eternal meaning deathless, so God should not be able to kill himself under the circumstances which you grant him. But at the same time he should because he is "all powerful"!

If omnipotence means being all-powerful, indestructible, eternal and deathless at the same time, omnipotence is simply non-existant, for reasons you just pointed out: they're contradictive. But why should an omnipotent being be deathless, indestructable or eternal, let alone all three at the same time? Are these not simply your own conceptions of the word - your subjective view, instead of a rational definition? Because if that's your definition, then how can you say omnipotence exists? Doesn't being omnipotent include being above all equilibrium states such as destructability and indestructability?

That brings up a new question. Is God omnipotent, meaning that every possible definition excludes him, or does omnipotence not exist (and neither would God in that case)? There are no in-betweens. No mortality, no state at all. If God doesn't live, how can he die, let alone commit suicide?

So either the whole omnipotence thing is just another flaw in the already extremely flawed concept of religion, or this discussion is extremely useless as omnipotence cannot be defined because of it's lack of boundaries. You tell me.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Cheese on June 17, 2007, 08:27:19 AM
omnipotence doesnt exist and isn't possible either. a simple answer cannot be given. Maybe some limitations to the definiton would clear things up a little more. 
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Trauma-san on June 28, 2007, 05:49:50 AM
This is a fascinating  question to me with an interesting paradox. I'm looking for insight as I've been pondering lately on whether or not it should be possible for God to kill himself. We know that by definition God is omnipotent(all powerful),  it is apparent however, that if this were to be true, then God would indeed be undestroyable and able to create/destroy anything at the same time as by definition there is no limit to what he can do.. Now, given that, is it theoretically possible that God(being almighty as he is) would have the capability to kill himself, or since he is undestroyable, is that out of the question? And if it is out of the question wouldn't this mean that God has limits and is therefore not omnipotent/all powerful? Something to think about, any replies are welcome.. 8)

Simple question with a simple answer.  God creates laws and an environment that even he is bound by.  While he could make time stop, or 'kill' himself or whatever little test of power you need, he doesnt' because he set time in motion and he injected himself into every item and place in the universe.  God follows the rules of physics and laws of the universe and things just like humans do. 
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: Trauma-san on June 28, 2007, 05:50:35 AM
I see you just started Philosophy 101. I hated that class. Pseudo-intellectuals.

Yeah, I agree.  Everybody would latch onto every philosopher that had a new idea, until the next week when you found out that the next philosopher proved that idea wrong.  St Augustine was cool, though, brilliant man.
Title: Re: Can God commit suicide?
Post by: eS El Duque on July 03, 2007, 03:58:36 PM
I see you just started Philosophy 101. I hated that class. Pseudo-intellectuals.

lol