West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on August 29, 2007, 01:20:39 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VtN30Wi1U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6MvINj5f10
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http://www.youtube.com/v/he0akllbsoU
http://www.youtube.com/v/TC-kKQMue4g
http://www.youtube.com/v/ju_rG3DtBnM
GOAT:
http://www.youtube.com/v/yUHKpB5332o
8)
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as for your first video...
1.Kobe will have more rings when his career is through (only played about half his career).
2.Kobe woulda had about 10 scoring titles by now minus Shaq, not to mention the rest to come.
3.Kobe is DPOY caliber player. His lock-down defense is easily on par with Jordan's.
4.The assist comparison is flat out dumb. It's not even much of a difference, and Kobe started his career at 18, off the bench. Kobe's will go up to at least 5 APG by the time it's all said and done.
5.Kobe in his prime is a better scorer than Jordan in his prime.
"Kobe will end up the GOAT when it's all said and done."
-Mark Jackson.
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Just imagine if Jordan had Shaq he would have had like 10 rings
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No he wouldn't...If Jordan had Shaq, he'd be sitting in Kobe's shoes. Instead, Jordan had the benefit of playing with Pippen. A defensive stopper, and a superstar willing to defer to the obviously better player.
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shaq is arguably the most dominating player of our time give the guy some credit
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Yes...he also killed what coulda been 10 straight titles for the Lakers.
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The fact that Kobe could average 30 points on the same team as Shaq should already give him an edge over Jordan. Pippen wasn't a dominant force like Shaq.
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as for your first video...
1.Kobe will have more rings when his career is through (only played about half his career).
2.Kobe woulda had about 10 scoring titles by now minus Shaq, not to mention the rest to come.
3.Kobe is DPOY caliber player. His lock-down defense is easily on par with Jordan's.
4.The assist comparison is flat out dumb. It's not even much of a difference, and Kobe started his career at 18, off the bench. Kobe's will go up to at least 5 APG by the time it's all said and done.
5.Kobe in his prime is a better scorer than Jordan in his prime.
I had to post those videos once i saw your sig man lol. All your points here though are based on assumptions. You're assuming he will win more titles, youre assuming he would have had more scoring titles had it not been for Shaq, youre assuming his APG will go up above 5. Youre opinion is that he's a better scorer then Jordan, and youre opinion is that his D is on par with Jordan. The ironic thing about all that is, youre the first person to run towards stats in order to prove a point. Here are stats that say the exact opposite of what you always claim (Kobe is the GOAT lol). But somehow now, its not about stats. hmmm
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as for your first video...
1.Kobe will have more rings when his career is through (only played about half his career).
2.Kobe woulda had about 10 scoring titles by now minus Shaq, not to mention the rest to come.
3.Kobe is DPOY caliber player. His lock-down defense is easily on par with Jordan's.
4.The assist comparison is flat out dumb. It's not even much of a difference, and Kobe started his career at 18, off the bench. Kobe's will go up to at least 5 APG by the time it's all said and done.
5.Kobe in his prime is a better scorer than Jordan in his prime.
I had to post those videos once i saw your sig man lol. All your points here though are based on assumptions. You're assuming he will win more titles, youre assuming he would have had more scoring titles had it not been for Shaq, youre assuming his APG will go up above 5. Youre opinion is that he's a better scorer then Jordan, and youre opinion is that his D is on par with Jordan. The ironic thing about all that is, youre the first person to run towards stats in order to prove a point. Here are stats that say the exact opposite of what you always claim (Kobe is the GOAT lol). But somehow now, its not about stats. hmmm
Why would I be dumb enough to run towards stats when it comes to Kobe? LOL. Kobe came into the league under different circumstances, and his rise to the top was much different and required a lot more effort. How is it fair to compare stats of a player who came in from high school, playing behind an fan favorite all-star on a premier team, to one who came in during later stages, with the team handed to him from the get-go? Kobe may not be the clear-cut GOAT as of today, but best believe there is a very high chance that he will leave the game as not only the most skilled player to ever play (he's already there), but the undisputed GOAT as well...PeACe
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
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Kobe better win in the next 7 years cause I highly doubt he will be in the league for his 19th and 20th years.
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Why not? I can see Kobe playing into his early 40's, especially with his work ethic...PeACe
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
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Why not? I can see Kobe playing into his early 40's, especially with his work ethic...PeACe
Wear and tear.
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
We're not talking about careers, we're talking about who was the best when they reached their top...Joe Smith is on-par with Jermaine O'Neal career-wise, doesn't mean JO wasn't the much better player in his prime...PeACe
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
No, it's not...A rookie has no chance of starting over a proven defensive stopper, top scorer, AND fan-favorite. Jordan at 18 wouldn't have started over an up-and-coming all star Eddie Jones on the Lakers either.
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
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I don't like those threads. The best moment from your videos is the infamous part where in the 1997 december game Micheal speaks to Kobe giving him some tips.
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
the problem is, his numbers (average wise) are below Mike's...and the "on pace" argument is almost always nonsense...even when a player is actually "on pace" to break records.
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
You seemed to be level headed at the start of this conversation so I don't understand why you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not purposely taking out Kobe's "bad seasons". Its not like I'm talking about Amare Stoudemire and saying take out the season he was injured. For great players like Kobe or McGready, you have to judge them based on when they were actually full time starters to be fair.
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
You seemed to be level headed at the start of this conversation so I don't understand why you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not purposely taking out Kobe's "bad seasons". Its not like I'm talking about Amare Stoudemire and saying take out the season he was injured. For great players like Kobe or McGready, you have to judge them based on when they were actually full time starters to be fair.
and what Im saying is, if you want to compare career vs career....you have to compare career vs career. If you want to compare years as a starter....then compare years as a starter. I was comparing careers. Had Kobe won a championship in one of the first two years he was a Laker....do you honestly think you Kobe fans wouldnt include that as another Championship for Kobe? Of course you would, and youd say that he's only 2 away from MJ on the Championship count. So you cant discount those 2 seasons just because they dont work in your favor. Either way, MJ still has the nod obviously. There is no real reason for Kobe and Jordan to be mentioned in the same breath, but NIK's sig made me. I have said before though, Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever.
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
the problem is, his numbers (average wise) are below Mike's...and the "on pace" argument is almost always nonsense...even when a player is actually "on pace" to break records.
His numbers are not on pace because he was brought up in a completely different way... What don't you get?
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
LMAO@comparing Jordan's first season to Kobe's...and 18 games at 22.7 barely hurts your average...Nice try though...PeACe
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
You seemed to be level headed at the start of this conversation so I don't understand why you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not purposely taking out Kobe's "bad seasons". Its not like I'm talking about Amare Stoudemire and saying take out the season he was injured. For great players like Kobe or McGready, you have to judge them based on when they were actually full time starters to be fair.
and what Im saying is, if you want to compare career vs career....you have to compare career vs career. If you want to compare years as a starter....then compare years as a starter. I was comparing careers. Had Kobe won a championship in one of the first two years he was a Laker....do you honestly think you Kobe fans wouldnt include that as another Championship for Kobe? Of course you would, and youd say that he's only 2 away from MJ on the Championship count. So you cant discount those 2 seasons just because they dont work in your favor. Either way, MJ still has the nod obviously. There is no real reason for Kobe and Jordan to be mentioned in the same breath, but NIK's sig made me. I have said before though, Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever.
You say Kobe is the 2nd best 2 guard ever, then you say he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. Makes no sense...I still say the way Kobe came up reflects more on his career, he had to pave his own way to becoming what he is. He built himself when he coulda' easily been another Qyntel Woods. Kobe's come-up > Jordan's come-up...And you never judge a player straight out of high school on his career numbers. In that case, you might as well incorporate Jordan's college numbers into his averages when comparing...But that's not the case. We judge players based on how good they were in their prime. Kobe is still barely in his prime, and he's done things Jordan could only dream of. If you say Kobe is not capable of ending his career as the best ever, then you're straight up lying to yourself...PeACe
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
You seemed to be level headed at the start of this conversation so I don't understand why you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not purposely taking out Kobe's "bad seasons". Its not like I'm talking about Amare Stoudemire and saying take out the season he was injured. For great players like Kobe or McGready, you have to judge them based on when they were actually full time starters to be fair.
and what Im saying is, if you want to compare career vs career....you have to compare career vs career. If you want to compare years as a starter....then compare years as a starter. I was comparing careers. Had Kobe won a championship in one of the first two years he was a Laker....do you honestly think you Kobe fans wouldnt include that as another Championship for Kobe? Of course you would, and youd say that he's only 2 away from MJ on the Championship count. So you cant discount those 2 seasons just because they dont work in your favor. Either way, MJ still has the nod obviously. There is no real reason for Kobe and Jordan to be mentioned in the same breath, but NIK's sig made me. I have said before though, Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever.
You say Kobe is the 2nd best 2 guard ever, then you say he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. Makes no sense...I still say the way Kobe came up reflects more on his career, he had to pave his own way to becoming what he is. He built himself when he coulda' easily been another Qyntel Woods. Kobe's come-up > Jordan's come-up...And you never judge a player straight out of high school on his career numbers. In that case, you might as well incorporate Jordan's college numbers into his averages when comparing...But that's not the case. We judge players based on how good they were in their prime. Kobe is still barely in his prime, and he's done things Jordan could only dream of. If you say Kobe is not capable of ending his career as the best ever, then you're straight up lying to yourself...PeACe
And Jordan did things in his prime Kobe hasn't done.
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
You seemed to be level headed at the start of this conversation so I don't understand why you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not purposely taking out Kobe's "bad seasons". Its not like I'm talking about Amare Stoudemire and saying take out the season he was injured. For great players like Kobe or McGready, you have to judge them based on when they were actually full time starters to be fair.
and what Im saying is, if you want to compare career vs career....you have to compare career vs career. If you want to compare years as a starter....then compare years as a starter. I was comparing careers. Had Kobe won a championship in one of the first two years he was a Laker....do you honestly think you Kobe fans wouldnt include that as another Championship for Kobe? Of course you would, and youd say that he's only 2 away from MJ on the Championship count. So you cant discount those 2 seasons just because they dont work in your favor. Either way, MJ still has the nod obviously. There is no real reason for Kobe and Jordan to be mentioned in the same breath, but NIK's sig made me. I have said before though, Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever.
You say Kobe is the 2nd best 2 guard ever, then you say he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. Makes no sense...I still say the way Kobe came up reflects more on his career, he had to pave his own way to becoming what he is. He built himself when he coulda' easily been another Qyntel Woods. Kobe's come-up > Jordan's come-up...And you never judge a player straight out of high school on his career numbers. In that case, you might as well incorporate Jordan's college numbers into his averages when comparing...But that's not the case. We judge players based on how good they were in their prime. Kobe is still barely in his prime, and he's done things Jordan could only dream of. If you say Kobe is not capable of ending his career as the best ever, then you're straight up lying to yourself...PeACe
And Jordan did things in his prime Kobe hasn't done.
Yepp, so they're even ;D
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
You seemed to be level headed at the start of this conversation so I don't understand why you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not purposely taking out Kobe's "bad seasons". Its not like I'm talking about Amare Stoudemire and saying take out the season he was injured. For great players like Kobe or McGready, you have to judge them based on when they were actually full time starters to be fair.
and what Im saying is, if you want to compare career vs career....you have to compare career vs career. If you want to compare years as a starter....then compare years as a starter. I was comparing careers. Had Kobe won a championship in one of the first two years he was a Laker....do you honestly think you Kobe fans wouldnt include that as another Championship for Kobe? Of course you would, and youd say that he's only 2 away from MJ on the Championship count. So you cant discount those 2 seasons just because they dont work in your favor. Either way, MJ still has the nod obviously. There is no real reason for Kobe and Jordan to be mentioned in the same breath, but NIK's sig made me. I have said before though, Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever.
You say Kobe is the 2nd best 2 guard ever, then you say he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. Makes no sense...I still say the way Kobe came up reflects more on his career, he had to pave his own way to becoming what he is. He built himself when he coulda' easily been another Qyntel Woods. Kobe's come-up > Jordan's come-up...And you never judge a player straight out of high school on his career numbers. In that case, you might as well incorporate Jordan's college numbers into his averages when comparing...But that's not the case. We judge players based on how good they were in their prime. Kobe is still barely in his prime, and he's done things Jordan could only dream of. If you say Kobe is not capable of ending his career as the best ever, then you're straight up lying to yourself...PeACe
And Jordan did things in his prime Kobe hasn't done.
Yepp, so they're even ;D
Yeah if you add some retarded calculation.
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^^Was that supposed to make sense?
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if kobe wins a ring sometime soon i will consider comparing him to MJ
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^^Was that supposed to make sense?
Try to keep up faggot
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The only people that say Kobe is better than Jordan are Laker fans / LA media and Mark Jackson (and he only did it so people would speak his name years after the fact like his word means anything, lol).
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
wow...looks like James numbers starting from year 1 ;D
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^^Was that supposed to make sense?
Try to keep up faggot
keep up with retarded grammar?... that's all on you.
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The only people that say Kobe is better than Jordan are Laker fans / LA media and Mark Jackson (and he only did it so people would speak his name years after the fact like his word means anything, lol).
The only people who say they're not on the same level are people who've been brainwashed by the media/commercialism in one way or another.
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The only people that say Kobe is better than Jordan are Laker fans / LA media and Mark Jackson (and he only did it so people would speak his name years after the fact like his word means anything, lol).
The only people who say they're not on the same level are people who've been brainwashed by the media/commercialism in one way or another.
You're a fucking moron.
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^^And you're fucking brainwashed. I bet it took you Tim Dongahy coming out to realize that there was something wrong with the state of the NBA and the way it operates, you dumbfuck.
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^^And you're fucking brainwashed. I bet it took you Tim Dongahy coming out to realize that there was something wrong with the state of the NBA and the way it operates, you dumbfuck.
I knew there was something wrong when the Lakers and the refs beat the Kings.
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Leave it to you to make an uneducated hater comment. :grumpy:
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The only people that say Kobe is better than Jordan are Laker fans / LA media and Mark Jackson (and he only did it so people would speak his name years after the fact like his word means anything, lol).
The only people who say they're not on the same level are people who've been brainwashed by the media/commercialism in one way or another.
So basically anyone that is a Laker fan / LA media / Mark Jackson has been brainwashed?
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The only people that say Kobe is better than Jordan are Laker fans / LA media and Mark Jackson (and he only did it so people would speak his name years after the fact like his word means anything, lol).
The only people who say they're not on the same level are people who've been brainwashed by the media/commercialism in one way or another.
So basically anyone that is a Laker fan / LA media / Mark Jackson has been brainwashed?
No, anyone who thinks Kobe is NOT near Jordan's caliber is brainwashed.
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The only people that say Kobe is better than Jordan are Laker fans / LA media and Mark Jackson (and he only did it so people would speak his name years after the fact like his word means anything, lol).
Near his caliber? I'll def give you that. But no way he's better and it shouldn't even be discussed until Kobe's career has ended.
The only people who say they're not on the same level are people who've been brainwashed by the media/commercialism in one way or another.
So basically anyone that is a Laker fan / LA media / Mark Jackson has been brainwashed?
No, anyone who thinks Kobe is NOT near Jordan's caliber is brainwashed.
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^^So you agree that Kobe is on Jordan's caliber?
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^^So you agree that Kobe is on Jordan's caliber?
LOL, I don't know what the fuck happened to my post...
What I said was, no doubt I agree that Kobe is a Jordan caliber talent. But no way in hell should there be any mention that he's better than Jordan until his career is over.
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^^So you agree that Kobe is on Jordan's caliber?
LOL, I don't know what the fuck happened to my post...
What I said was, no doubt I agree that Kobe is a Jordan caliber talent. But no way in hell should there be any mention that he's better than Jordan until his career is over.
Fair enough, though it definitely wouldn't be wrong to say some parts of his game are already better.
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^^So you agree that Kobe is on Jordan's caliber?
LOL, I don't know what the fuck happened to my post...
What I said was, no doubt I agree that Kobe is a Jordan caliber talent. But no way in hell should there be any mention that he's better than Jordan until his career is over.
Fair enough, though it definitely wouldn't be wrong to say some parts of his game are already better.
Just like it wouldn't be wrong to say that parts of Jordan's game is better. Be patient - if Kobe is 100% legit it will be recognized regardless.
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(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3282/kbmjin6.gif)
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
You seemed to be level headed at the start of this conversation so I don't understand why you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not purposely taking out Kobe's "bad seasons". Its not like I'm talking about Amare Stoudemire and saying take out the season he was injured. For great players like Kobe or McGready, you have to judge them based on when they were actually full time starters to be fair.
and what Im saying is, if you want to compare career vs career....you have to compare career vs career. If you want to compare years as a starter....then compare years as a starter. I was comparing careers. Had Kobe won a championship in one of the first two years he was a Laker....do you honestly think you Kobe fans wouldnt include that as another Championship for Kobe? Of course you would, and youd say that he's only 2 away from MJ on the Championship count. So you cant discount those 2 seasons just because they dont work in your favor. Either way, MJ still has the nod obviously. There is no real reason for Kobe and Jordan to be mentioned in the same breath, but NIK's sig made me. I have said before though, Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever.
You say Kobe is the 2nd best 2 guard ever, then you say he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. Makes no sense...I still say the way Kobe came up reflects more on his career, he had to pave his own way to becoming what he is. He built himself when he coulda' easily been another Qyntel Woods. Kobe's come-up > Jordan's come-up...And you never judge a player straight out of high school on his career numbers. In that case, you might as well incorporate Jordan's college numbers into his averages when comparing...But that's not the case. We judge players based on how good they were in their prime. Kobe is still barely in his prime, and he's done things Jordan could only dream of. If you say Kobe is not capable of ending his career as the best ever, then you're straight up lying to yourself...PeACe
correction, YOU never judge a player coming strait out of highschool on his career numbers WHEN its Kobe. Ive never heard anyone say that you dont count Kevin Garnetts first few years or Lebrons. But you argue that Kobes shouldnt count only because he wasnt as productive as youd like for YOUR argument. Like I said before (which no one has addressed), if Kobe had won a championship during his first 2 years (whether a starter or bench player), not ONE of you would say that championship shouldnt count towards his number of titles because he wasnt a major contributer. But when we compare his numbers to Jordans...you say it shouldnt count because he wasnt a major contributer.
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^ well lets look at Kobe's stats starting from his 3rd season (when he became a starter)...
27.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
looks good to me
Jordans numbers = Still better.
On a side note....a career consists of the point at which you start playing in the NBA....til the moment you stop. If we are comparing career vs career, seems logical to compare career vs career. If you think its fair to drop off Kobe's three worst years...youd have to do the same for MJ.
I didn't just pick Kobe's worst years, I picked the 2 when he was a bench player. You can do the same for a player like McGrady. But Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Carter, Pierce, etc were all instant starters.
So Kobe wasnt good enough to start immediately is what youre saying. ;D
Actually yeah. He had the potential but he was just too raw and his body was nowhere near ready. But that doesn't matter. He's surpassed all those players I listed and is right on pace with MJ.
one more thing worth mentioning. MJ only played 18 games in his second season due to a broken foot. Plus, we are going off averages. MJ averaged 30.1 PPG for a career....his first season he averaged 28.2 PPG. Second season he averaged 22.7 PPG. His first 2 years hurt his averages also. Only thing Kobe should have on his side is that he came out earlier and should have a couple extra seasons to try and catch up lol
You seemed to be level headed at the start of this conversation so I don't understand why you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not purposely taking out Kobe's "bad seasons". Its not like I'm talking about Amare Stoudemire and saying take out the season he was injured. For great players like Kobe or McGready, you have to judge them based on when they were actually full time starters to be fair.
and what Im saying is, if you want to compare career vs career....you have to compare career vs career. If you want to compare years as a starter....then compare years as a starter. I was comparing careers. Had Kobe won a championship in one of the first two years he was a Laker....do you honestly think you Kobe fans wouldnt include that as another Championship for Kobe? Of course you would, and youd say that he's only 2 away from MJ on the Championship count. So you cant discount those 2 seasons just because they dont work in your favor. Either way, MJ still has the nod obviously. There is no real reason for Kobe and Jordan to be mentioned in the same breath, but NIK's sig made me. I have said before though, Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever.
You say Kobe is the 2nd best 2 guard ever, then you say he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. Makes no sense...
Youre right.
"Kobe is no where near MJ's level". There, I said both names in the same breath. ;D
Also, lets use a game of HORSE as an example.
Jordan, Kobe, and.....Drexler or some damn body. Jordan has no letters, Kobe has HORS, and Drexler just got HORSE. Kobe is the second best in that game, but not really close to the winner. So you see. You see how you can be second best, but not exactly on the heels of the guy in first?
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^Kobe is a much better shooter than Jordan, so that would never happen. As for the bs you're speaking about Kobe coming out of high school, how does that factor into your argument, bro? Regardless of what you say, if you put Jordan at the age of 18 on a stacked Laker team, he would have not fared any better than Kobe...LeBron and Garnett stepped into different situations...Please just make sense out of what you're saying, because you factoring Kobe's first couple of seasons into the equation takes nothing away from the fact that Kobe has or will peak at a higher level than Jordan when it's prime-time...PeACe
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^Kobe is a much better shooter than Jordan, so that would never happen. As for the bs you're speaking about Kobe coming out of high school, how does that factor into your argument, bro? Regardless of what you say, if you put Jordan at the age of 18 on a stacked Laker team, he would have not fared any better than Kobe...LeBron and Garnett stepped into different situations...Please just make sense out of what you're saying, because you factoring Kobe's first couple of seasons into the equation takes nothing away from the fact that Kobe has or will peak at a higher level than Jordan when it's prime-time...PeACe
there are always variables in a career that could effect their numbers. Jordan took a year off for baseball. That could fuck you numbers up. It didnt with his (average wise, but he did lose some number totals because of it), but maybe it could with Kobe. Jordan came back to play for the Wizards, that definetely dropped his numbers. Maybe Kobe retires at an earlier age then Jordan. That would help Kobe's averages more then likely because typically you become less productive the older you get. So until that point, we can only compare career vs career.
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Comparing career vs. career is never the way to establish who was the greater player in their peak years. Not by a long shot. And don't forget, Kobe's only played approximately HALF his career...PeACe