West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Tha G-Spot => Topic started by: The Big Bad Ass on March 24, 2002, 02:57:37 PM
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Okay, now there have been alot of religious discussions lately on the board. Alot of Muslim treads, and me, as well as a few others have been offering christian outlooks as well. My question is to any Jew, Muslim, Chistian, Hindu, or any other faith that refers to the creator as God. Do you think we all worship the same being?? Or are we talking about 4 different creators? Jewish, and Christianity both believe in the old testiment, but I don't know where the islamic faith stands on the bible. Plus, I don't know Jack about the hindu faith. So I'm just curious as to what you all think.
My personal feeling is that at least Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship the same god.
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And, if you all just want me to shut up about religion, I can do that too. If I were you guys, I'd be getting sick of seeing me stick my nose into threads where it didn't belong (sorry brotherhood for cluttering your threads).
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Well the Hindu and Buddhist belief worship many different gods, if I'm not mistaken so I'm pretty sure they don't worship the same god as Christians and Muslims. I'm not sure if Muslims and Christians worship the same god tho.
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well i know muslims christians and jews all belive in the same god, dont know about the rest
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But in Christianity, Jesus is part of the trinity, which makes him God. Muslims believe Jesus is a prophet, not God.
That's why I question if Muslims and Christians believe in the same God.
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^^ See that is the problem also with the Jewish faith, they don't believe that jesus was the son of god.
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But they believe in the God of the Old Testament. Christians do too.
Oh man this is even more confusing lol
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well, since ima jew........
i believe we all belive in the same god (muslims, jews, christians, NO-buddhists, hindus, etc) but we all view the god differently......
so in essence, its the same god, but he "does different things" depending on the religion
*my belief* yall understand?
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Well im a Sikh and we have Gurus/prophets which were sent by God and possesed Divine powers, they preached about ONE GOD....and they wrote poetry and stuff about GOD, which was then collected and made into the holy book which contains prayers etc....so basicly we worship one God....
-{bLaDe}
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man religion can get soooooooo confusing
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But they believe in the God of the Old Testament. Christians do too.
Oh man this is even more confusing lol
yeah so do muslims andif jews and christians do too then thats one god that we believe in and what i dont understand is, how can jesus be god if hes the son of god?
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man religion can get soooooooo confusing
LOL, AMEN!
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yeah so do muslims andif jews and christians do too then thats one god that we believe in and what i dont understand is, how can jesus be god if hes the son of god?
people arent sure of that....they say that cuz mary was jesus' mom, but how could of she if she was a virgin
but i believe that
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LOL i bet mah man trauma can answer sum of the christinaty questions
-{bLaDe}
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yeah so do muslims andif jews and christians do too then thats one god that we believe in and what i dont understand is, how can jesus be god if hes the son of god?
Jesus is part of the trinity, which consists of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are 3 in 1.
I guess that makes the situation even more confusing for some people lol
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And I guess Muslims, Jews and Christians in a way believe in the same god, the God of the Old Testament.
Still doesn't make sense since there was the Son og God even before the New Testament, just that he never came down from Heaven yet.
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Dude, by definition there is 1 god. Muslims pray to the same god I do, as a christian (lds). God would never desert someone just because they're of a different faith, even though I believe my faith is the 'true' faith or whatever (or I wouldn't be a member, right?) I still know (and my church teaches) that god is with everyone, even if they are evil. Jesus Christ came to earth for EVERYONE , every single person. If Hitler himself was the only person that ever lived, Jesus would have came to earth to let hitler kill him for his sins, or whatever. God loves everyone equally, even those who don't know him, deny him, and even hate him.
Peace~
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Trauma, was that answer directed towards my original question, or towards someone else's, cause if it was towards mine, I think you missed my point. Also, do you by chance post in LOP's forum under Trauma?
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I can answer the god/jesus question, definately.
This is a Latter Day Saint view, though... so it doesn't reflect your 'average' christian belief.
The average christian belief is that god/jesus/the holy ghost are all the same person. However, that can't be true, because Jesus prayed to his father in heaven while on earth. How can they be 1, then?
The latter day saint view is this: The reason we are on earth is to grow as a family. We are children of God, and as such, God wants us to grow up to be like him (like all dads do). God has a wife, and God has a son. Just as Jesus has a dad, Jesus's dad has a dad, and it is an infinite regression; the only people we know about are Jesus Christ, and his father, however. Just like Jesus, we can have a family, and eventually, in heaven, will grow (like our father) to be able to create our own worlds, etc.
Earth is Jesus's world. It was all created by him (save mankind) as he matured and became a god as his father had. He is our brother, and our shining example of how to become a god.
And that's the real~ !WHOOOO@!
So, you could say there's more than 1 god, but we only pray to 1, because he is our father and that's all we know. We don't know where he came from, or who his father is, but the key here is families, God also has a family. Can you imagine him alone, with no wife? He has a wife, and he has at least Jesus as a son. We are all his children, men and women, given a chance to come to earth, so we can grow here, and obtain a body like his. (God has a body, because we were created in his image). Jesus also came to earth so he could obtain a body. Basically, Jesus is our bigger brother that we should strive to be like. God gave us, as a sign of love, eternal life. If you do good by him, you'll return to live with him eternally. If you do bad, you will be cast out from him, eternally. Earth is the test. Earth is also where you should get married for eternity, so you can use the other gift god gave us: The gift of creation. We can't grow plants, make things float, or anyting like that, but yet, we can create life! Think about that. God intends for all of us to choose a wife/husband, and raise a family like he did, and teach our children, and help them be like us when they grow up.
It's sooooooo deep, I could talk to you about each part of the plan for weeks on end. If you have any questions, shoot.
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Yeah, I was talking about your o.g. question. What I meant is, there is only 1 god, nomatter how you look at it. So, if you're praying to god, you're praying to the same god, because there's nobody else there to hear you. I think people have very different ideas about who that god is, though.
Yeah, I post on LOP. Gangsta, Huh?
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Okay, yeah, I totally agree, imo, there is only one god to hear the prayers, it was basically my way of trying to hear other faiths (I'm christian) view of "the creator", and see how it fits into what I already have learned, and have read in the bible.
And yeah, I saw the name Trauma postin at the forum, and I was thinkin, there is nooo way someone else is gonna use that handle in a Hulk Hogan thread.
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I can answer the god/jesus question, definately.
This is a Latter Day Saint view, though... so it doesn't reflect your 'average' christian belief.
The average christian belief is that god/jesus/the holy ghost are all the same person. However, that can't be true, because Jesus prayed to his father in heaven while on earth. How can they be 1, then?
The latter day saint view is this: The reason we are on earth is to grow as a family. We are children of God, and as such, God wants us to grow up to be like him (like all dads do). God has a wife, and God has a son. Just as Jesus has a dad, Jesus's dad has a dad, and it is an infinite regression; the only people we know about are Jesus Christ, and his father, however. Just like Jesus, we can have a family, and eventually, in heaven, will grow (like our father) to be able to create our own worlds, etc.
Earth is Jesus's world. It was all created by him (save mankind) as he matured and became a god as his father had. He is our brother, and our shining example of how to become a god.
And that's the real~ !WHOOOO@!
So, you could say there's more than 1 god, but we only pray to 1, because he is our father and that's all we know. We don't know where he came from, or who his father is, but the key here is families, God also has a family. Can you imagine him alone, with no wife? He has a wife, and he has at least Jesus as a son. We are all his children, men and women, given a chance to come to earth, so we can grow here, and obtain a body like his. (God has a body, because we were created in his image). Jesus also came to earth so he could obtain a body. Basically, Jesus is our bigger brother that we should strive to be like. God gave us, as a sign of love, eternal life. If you do good by him, you'll return to live with him eternally. If you do bad, you will be cast out from him, eternally. Earth is the test. Earth is also where you should get married for eternity, so you can use the other gift god gave us: The gift of creation. We can't grow plants, make things float, or anyting like that, but yet, we can create life! Think about that. God intends for all of us to choose a wife/husband, and raise a family like he did, and teach our children, and help them be like us when they grow up.
It's sooooooo deep, I could talk to you about each part of the plan for weeks on end. If you have any questions, shoot.
Jesus prayed as an example of what we should do. When Jesus came to earth, he not only came to die for our sins, but he set a perfect example of how we should live, which is a sinless life. So it is possible for God and Jesus to be one.
I'm not trying to bash the Latter Day Saint's view of Christianity because I respect all views of religion, even if I disagree with them. But I think the Latter Day Saint's take the whole Father, Son, Holy Spirit concept out of context. I believe it is a metaphor for us humans, who have not been completely open to the spiritual realm, to under stand. So in a way it is just an example.
Also, I never read where the Bible said God had a wife. Once again I think the whole Father/Son concept has been taken out of context. I don't believe Jesus was the actual offspring of God the Father, but that it was a metaphor so us humans can understand.
And when the Bible speaks of God making us "in His image" it means not that we are made to look exactly like him in our human form, but that we are like him spiritually (ex. we have spirits, live for eternity, etc). That is still arguable because I have not experienced God visually, but only spiritually.
I just thought I'd share those views and see what you think about them.
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well from a muslim point of view....
see the torah, the old testament and the quran are SO SIMILIAR its not even funny
but see Jesus becomes introduced as divine in christianitys new testament, jews dont accept him at all, muslims only accept him as a prophet...
see muslims believe that Judaism was the original religion sent by God, that why we believe in Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses etc
but when Jews refuse to accept Jesus, the religion became astray
christiniaty went astray because while jews didnt accept jesus at ALL, christians took it overboard, and gave him divinity
so basically Islam is the true religion because Christianity and Judaism each at critical points wandered off....
thats why we still respect Christains and Jews and call them "People of the Book", we just believe that the confusion surrounding Jesus/Mary and the refusal to accept Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) as the last messanger, sets us apart from christianity and judaism
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^^ Thanks man, that clears up anything I was really wondering about. Not that it changes my mind on christianity, or anything, just didn't know if Muslims considered us believers of the same god. Out of curiosity, how do muslims view the bible? Accept it, or no?
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^^ Crap, I should have said Old Testiment. Sorry.
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Jesus prayed as an example of what we should do. When Jesus came to earth, he not only came to die for our sins, but he set a perfect example of how we should live, which is a sinless life. So it is possible for God and Jesus to be one.
I'm not trying to bash the Latter Day Saint's view of Christianity because I respect all views of religion, even if I disagree with them. But I think the Latter Day Saint's take the whole Father, Son, Holy Spirit concept out of context. I believe it is a metaphor for us humans, who have not been completely open to the spiritual realm, to under stand. So in a way it is just an example.
Also, I never read where the Bible said God had a wife. Once again I think the whole Father/Son concept has been taken out of context. I don't believe Jesus was the actual offspring of God the Father, but that it was a metaphor so us humans can understand.
And when the Bible speaks of God making us "in His image" it means not that we are made to look exactly like him in our human form, but that we are like him spiritually (ex. we have spirits, live for eternity, etc). That is still arguable because I have not experienced God visually, but only spiritually.
I just thought I'd share those views and see what you think about them.
WAZZUPPPPP. Honestly; It's impossible to argue that Jesus and the father do not exist seperately. It says in the bible that Jesus said on the cross, as he died "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do". That's not an example, that was a heartfelt prayer for mercy to his father.
Jesus is the mediator between his father (the creator) and us... Jesus paid the debt for us to his father for our sins, and now we must pay Jesus back through our thoughts/actions/works on earth, since he will be our lawyer/judge and jury when we reach heaven.
When Jesus was baptised, In Matthew, Mark, and Luke it mentions The dove of the holy ghost descending on him, and the father in heaven is heard to say "This is my son, with whom I am well pleased". How can you possibly, possibly say that Jesus, the father, and the Holy Ghost are not seperate entities, when all 3 were present at Jesus's baptism, just like a proper family would be?
Matthew 10:33-36 "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven
Matthew 12:31-32: "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Matthew 27:46; "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying "Eli,Eli,Lama Sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
How can any of this be a metaphor, when Jesus referred to his father as seperately clearly, even when Jesus was suffering, he begged his father to stop the pain, and said "Thy will be done" (Father, do what you will).
So, I see your point; Jesus did, twice, mention things to the effect that "him and the father were one"... but it is abundantly clear from the surrounding text that he was saying 1 in mind, and purpose.
Also, Jesus was not god while on earth, he simply held the power of the priesthood, and was able to heal with the power of the Holy Ghost. After he was ressurected, THEN he had became a god, here on earth. He spoke to the non-believers after his resurrection in matthew 28.
Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
It says NOWHERE in the bible that God had a wife, you are correct. I (and the church) only supposes that, because he had a son, and how else are children made? I know, I know, he's god, but for god to be happy, he would not be alone. Also, since god wants us to be like him, and he wants us to marry... he himself by default must be married. For instance: how often do you hear Billy Graham, or whoever, talk about his wife? Never... because some things are best left personal. you've got me there, though, It says nothing about his wife, so it's impossible for me to prove that point.
As for the trinity, it ALSO mentions the trinity nowhere in the bible, even though Jesus is mentioned as the son of god 68 times.
Peace, Locster!
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well from a muslim point of view....
see the torah, the old testament and the quran are SO SIMILIAR its not even funny
but see Jesus becomes introduced as divine in christianitys new testament, jews dont accept him at all, muslims only accept him as a prophet...
see muslims believe that Judaism was the original religion sent by God, that why we believe in Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses etc
but when Jews refuse to accept Jesus, the religion became astray
christiniaty went astray because while jews didnt accept jesus at ALL, christians took it overboard, and gave him divinity
so basically Islam is the true religion because Christianity and Judaism each at critical points wandered off....
thats why we still respect Christains and Jews and call them "People of the Book", we just believe that the confusion surrounding Jesus/Mary and the refusal to accept Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) as the last messanger, sets us apart from christianity and judaism
If Jesus was a prophet, why did he 'lie' and say he was the way to heaven, why did he say "no man come before the father except by me" , why did he say he was the son of god, why did he say he had been given 'all power' after he was resurrected, and also, how come he WAS ressurrected? Do regular men come back to life 3 days after they die? That's just some of the questions that pop to mind.
Not bashing, I'm sure you believe your belief as strongly as I believe mine, and though we bicker, we still love god. As such, we will be rewarded, no matter how misguided each of us (you, or me) may be.
Peace~
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Not bashing, I'm sure you believe your belief as strongly as I believe mine, and though we bicker, we still love god. As such, we will be rewarded, no matter how misguided each of us (you, or me) may be.
Now that was REAL. Very well put Trauma.
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when was the bible written, not while Jesus was alive,
so those quotes.......im not dissing, hell nah
but i believe those were misinterpreted,
and muslims dont believe Jesus was resurected in the way yall believe
and as for "he is the way to heaven"
he is a prophet preaching God word, so if u follow Gods word you will go to heaven, i think he meant it like that
if u follow jesuss teachings which was Gods message, u will go to heaven....
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Lol, so I look up at the clock to see that it is now 12:36, and I've been sitting here at the cpu for the last 3 hours clicking refresh, and reading what everyone has said about the several topics I'm interested in, while my beautiful wife is 10 feet away in bed. I've since then considered my options, and I think it is time to call it an evening. Thank you to all who have dropped knowledge, and shared opinions. Good to have intelegent conversations from time to time. You all are some real mofo's. Peace.
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I hear ya, and I don't want to put you on defense about your faith. My church recognizes all faith, and specifically, believes that the muslim faith is a very respectable faith. We consider muslim's great people that we can learn from.
But, to answer your points :) Point taken about the 'misinterpretation'. But if a man is resurrected, obviously, he's a little more than your average man.
Also, Jesus said, "NO MAN cometh to the father, but by me". It's the only way there, according to him. Now, if he was a prophet, he would not lie. So, if you accept him as a prophet, you accept this statement as true.
We believe that God is a merciful god, and a muslim, or whoever, who has consistently shown love for god, and done what he believes god would have him do, will be saved in the next life, though.. basically, we believe that after you die, the 'veil' will be lifted, and you will understand all. (all of us will)... you will then be given the choice to choose good, or bad, basically... of course, you'll choose good, since you've chosen good in your life.
Peace~
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Lol, so I look up at the clock to see that it is now 12:36, and I've been sitting here at the cpu for the last 3 hours clicking refresh, and reading what everyone has said about the several topics I'm interested in, while my beautiful wife is 10 feet away in bed. I've since then considered my options, and I think it is time to call it an evening. Thank you to all who have dropped knowledge, and shared opinions. Good to have intelegent conversations from time to time. You all are some real mofo's. Peace.
Just remember, God's 1st commandment was to Adam and Eve!... "Go forth and replenish the earth"
LOL
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WAZZUPPPPP. Honestly; It's impossible to argue that Jesus and the father do not exist seperately. It says in the bible that Jesus said on the cross, as he died "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do". That's not an example, that was a heartfelt prayer for mercy to his father.
Jesus is the mediator between his father (the creator) and us... Jesus paid the debt for us to his father for our sins, and now we must pay Jesus back through our thoughts/actions/works on earth, since he will be our lawyer/judge and jury when we reach heaven.
When Jesus was baptised, In Matthew, Mark, and Luke it mentions The dove of the holy ghost descending on him, and the father in heaven is heard to say "This is my son, with whom I am well pleased". How can you possibly, possibly say that Jesus, the father, and the Holy Ghost are not seperate entities, when all 3 were present at Jesus's baptism, just like a proper family would be?
Matthew 10:33-36 "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven
Matthew 12:31-32: "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Matthew 27:46; "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying "Eli,Eli,Lama Sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
How can any of this be a metaphor, when Jesus referred to his father as seperately clearly, even when Jesus was suffering, he begged his father to stop the pain, and said "Thy will be done" (Father, do what you will).
So, I see your point; Jesus did, twice, mention things to the effect that "him and the father were one"... but it is abundantly clear from the surrounding text that he was saying 1 in mind, and purpose.
Also, Jesus was not god while on earth, he simply held the power of the priesthood, and was able to heal with the power of the Holy Ghost. After he was ressurected, THEN he had became a god, here on earth. He spoke to the non-believers after his resurrection in matthew 28.
Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
It says NOWHERE in the bible that God had a wife, you are correct. I (and the church) only supposes that, because he had a son, and how else are children made? I know, I know, he's god, but for god to be happy, he would not be alone. Also, since god wants us to be like him, and he wants us to marry... he himself by default must be married. For instance: how often do you hear Billy Graham, or whoever, talk about his wife? Never... because some things are best left personal. you've got me there, though, It says nothing about his wife, so it's impossible for me to prove that point.
As for the trinity, it ALSO mentions the trinity nowhere in the bible, even though Jesus is mentioned as the son of god 68 times.
Peace, Locster!
I can see why you think the trinity are three separate entities. I still believe that your are not looking into whats actually being said. Like you said Jesus clearly stated that he and God are one so how can you argue the Lord's word?
Jesus was God when he was on earth. The Bible clearly states he was God on earth. That is why he could live a perfect life without any sin. Has any other man done that while he was on earth? No. God is perfect and so was Jesus on earth, therefore he must have been God before coming to earth, during and forever after.
And God is not lonely because he has created us. While else do we have a "relationship" with him for? You don't have to be married to not be lonely.
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^^^ I gave you actual evidence from the bible, for why they were 3 seperate entities, you just gave me your beliefs.
At jesus's baptism, if they were 1, how did the "dove of the holy ghost" descend on him (if they were the same thing), and How did the father say, out loud, in the air, from the heavens, "Behold my son, in whom I am well pleased" ?
And why, in gesemene (spelling?) did Jesus beg his father to remove his burdens?
Of course I'm not saying Jesus lied. You didn't read what I wrote. He said "The father is in me, and I in the father". He also said that Jesus, the father, and the holy ghost were 1... those are the only 2 times he says anything to the effect in the bible. But there are 68 instances where he or someone else refers to him as god's ACTUAL son. It's not figurative, it's literal. In both instances of Jesus saying they were one, he was talking about in mind, in thought, that if God or the holy ghost were there, they would say the same exact thing. Really, it's a minor argument, It can be easily proven (I just did, with the baptism thing) that they are 3 seperate people. And why does Jesus continually, CONTINUALLY say "My father who art in heaven" ? LOL, It just baffles me that people don't believe Jesus and his Father are 2 seperate people. Of course they are, why wouldn't they be?
I won't argue with you about the 'god on earth' thing, i'll just leave you with Matthew chapter 28 again, when Jesus said he had been given all power... AFTER his resurrection.
Again, just minor inconsistencies, we all believe in god. Me and you even believe in his son, LOL.
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Well we both take the scriptures in different manners. You think the mention of Father/Son is literal and I think it's figurative. We obviously aren't gonna change any opinions so I'll just leave it at that.
I just want to touch on why Jesus prayed God would take his burdens away in Gethsemene. It's because even though he was God he was in human flesh. He had human emotions just like you and me. How else could he be tempted by Satan?
But anyways, like you said, we worship the same God so it's all gravy. No point in arguing over somethin' so little.
Peace
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well from a muslim point of view....
see the torah, the old testament and the quran are SO SIMILIAR its not even funny
but see Jesus becomes introduced as divine in christianitys new testament, jews dont accept him at all, muslims only accept him as a prophet...
see muslims believe that Judaism was the original religion sent by God, that why we believe in Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses etc
but when Jews refuse to accept Jesus, the religion became astray
christiniaty went astray because while jews didnt accept jesus at ALL, christians took it overboard, and gave him divinity
so basically Islam is the true religion because Christianity and Judaism each at critical points wandered off....
thats why we still respect Christains and Jews and call them "People of the Book", we just believe that the confusion surrounding Jesus/Mary and the refusal to accept Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) as the last messanger, sets us apart from christianity and judaism
The torah IS the old testiment, theyr EXACTLY THE SAME, not "similar"....theyr the same shit
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Your of course right, he had human emotions, nothing wrong witht hem. But my point was, who was he praying to? If he was god, why would he pray to someone else for help?
Peace~
(Btw, the answer, of course, is that he wasn't god, and that he was praying to his father, who isn't him, but who is in heaven. His father's will, as we found out, was for Jesus to suffer for all man's sins, at the same time, in the garden. He 'bled from every pore', and begged his father to help him, but if he had to do it, he would (paraphrasing). This single scene in the bible, in my opinion, is the most important thing that ever happened in the world; Jesus allowing for all his family to be able to return to him and his father in heaven... I mean, imagine, he suffered for Hitler, he suffered for all the child molestors, he took away and was punished for all of their sins. Wow. I'm sure just my and your sins alone would kill me, LOL)