West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Ant on November 15, 2002, 11:05:07 AM
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"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-- James Madison (1751-1836)
"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
-- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
"God is a mean-spirited, pugnacious bully bent on revenge against His children for failing to live up to his impossible standards."
-- Walt Whitman (1819-1892)
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand."
-- "Mark Twain" (1835-1910)
"I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious ideas of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God."
-- Thomas Edison (1847-1931)
"It would be very nice if there were a God who created the world and was a benevolent providence, and if there were a moral order in the universe and an after-life; but it is a very striking fact that all this is exactly as we are bound to wish it to be."
-- Sigmund Freud (1856-1939) *********
"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature."
-- Frank Lloyd Wright (1869-1959)
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) ********
"I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say that one is an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow it was better to say one was a humanist or agnostic. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time."
-- Isaac Asimov (1920-1992)
"I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will--and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain."
-- Gene Roddenberry (1921-1991)
Sir Alfred Hitchcock, (1899-1980).
Driving through a Swiss city one day, Hitchcock suddenly pointed out of the car window and said, "That is the most frightening sight I have ever seen." His companion was surprised to see nothing more alarming that a priest in conversation with a little boy, his hand on the child's shoulder. "Run, little boy," cried Hitchcock, leaning out of the car. "Run for your life!"
Jawaharlal Nehru, Indian statesman (1889-1964).
A self-professed atheist, he said of India, "No country or people who are slaves to dogma and dogmatic mentality can progress." [Key Ideas in Human Thought] ************
Some Other Aethists
Ayn Rand
George Orwell
Albert Camus
Ernest Hemmingway "all thinking men are aethists" (a farewell to arms)
H.G. Wells
James Madison
Personal favorites have stars next to them. Again, I am not fully swayed by these arguements but they are worth consideration. Many devote religious people believe faith in god grants them success. Above are men and women who had no faith yet still achieved it.
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I'm very religious, but also very openminded. I'm always questioning my beliefs to ensure they are the most intelligent position for me to take on things, so I always open intelligent conversation (like above) about them.
One thing you need to realize, however, is that all of these people weren't athiest. They were simply (some of them) presenting both sides as they saw it. For instance, I believe God is responsible for everything great in the world, but I would also say God is the reason for most wars. You see? Here's some more quotes...
You mentioned Einstein's great quotes. Here's another.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. "
--Albert Einstein
^^ One of my all time favorites.
"There remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion"
--Albert Einstein
^^ And what else can be said? Beautiful man.
Lincoln said in the above quote that he doubted christian salvation... that didn't extend to his belief in god, which remained unwavering till his death.
"The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong."
-- Abraham Lincoln - September 1862 - Meditation on the Divine Will
He also several times mentioned that it was God's Will that slaves be freed.
"In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free - honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just - a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless."
-- December 1, 1862 - Lincoln's Second Annual Message to Congress
Also of note, maybe Lincoln wasn't a christian, but why did he say this?
"I am much indebted to the good Christian people of the country for their constant prayers and consolations; and to no one of them, more than to yourself."
-- September 4, 1864 - Letter to Eliza Gurney
He at least respected christians. In the following quote, he even showed respect for the bible, and even a belief in the Saviour Jesus Christ!
"In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book."
-- September 7, 1864 - Reply to Loyal Colored People of Baltimore upon Presentation of a Bible
^^ Abraham Lincoln, another beautiful man
Next? LOL Lets look at James Madison. While he believed in God, He certianly disdained orgainized religion (especially christianity), but he was still a great enough man to realize that it was not his place to judge people...
"We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, that religion, or the duty we owe our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right." - James Madison
Walt Whitman was a poet who found himself (like everybody) struggling to understand god and religion. His quotes go both ways, like most people.
"I say the whole earth and all the stars in the sky are for religion's sake." - Walt Whitman
I say the real and permanent grandeur of these States must be their religion. - Walt Whitman
In the faces of men and women I see God. - Walt Whitman
We consider bibles and religions divine-- I do not say they are not divine, I say they have all grown out of you, and may grow out of you still, It is not they who give the life, it is you who give the life, Leaves are not more shed from the trees, or trees from the earth, than they are shed out of you. - Walt Whitman
^^ Another beautiful man
Mark Twain had many brilliant words on every subject; on religion, he had a clever, lighthearted outlook like he did on most things. I agree with a lot of what he said, lol. My favorite quote of his is this:
"Adam was but human--this explains it all. He did not want the apple for the apple's sake, he wanted it only because it was forbidden. The mistake was in not forbidding the serpent; then he would have eaten the serpent." - Mark Twain
LOL ^^ You can see his attitude in that he was always questioning the way the biblical God acted. Who knows if he actually believed in God? I think his words brought up interesting aspects of religion though, he was a great man.
Thomas Edison didn't believe in Organized religion, or a 'personal god' like he said above. His most famous quote is "Religion is all bunk". LOL. However, he did believe in 'a god', as a matter of fact, while he was looking for filament fibre to make lightbulbs with,he remarked
""Somewhere in God Almighty's workshop is dense woody growth, with fibers almost geometrically parallel and with practically no pith, from which we can make the filament the world needs." - Thomas Edison
I think Edison's main adversion was that he didn't believe that God had a personal relationship with humans, that he was much too great. He's repeatedly remarked that humans are basically ignorant about everything, and famously said that mankind doesn't know 1 percent of 1 thousanth of anything.
So, I wouldn't say these people had no faith. I'd say they were just like all of us, questioning religion and god. I wouldn't label them athiests at all!
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The world leaders should just ban all religions...
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those are great quotes from some of the most intelligent educated people in history...that know what they're talking about
you forgot one of the best ones
"organized religion is for the weak minded".......jesse ventura
i love that one
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For 1, the people on that list don't really impress me anyway. Number 2, they were probably talking about Christianity. Number 3, they think themselves to be the wisest, but Allah is the wisest. Number 4, didn't Albert Einstien help biuld the atom bomb? He has a God complex and should spend an eternity in hell for the unatural manipulation of Allah's resources; and the killing of thousands of innocent Japanese citizens; and placing fear in the world community of a nuclear holocaust that would wipe out our very existence!!!!!
Here are some other quotes by Lincoln.....
"We will preserve the Union even if it means setting the slaves free."
"Anyone who does not support the Union, will be considered an enemy of the state, and a contributor to corruption and disunity." (Kind of sounds like George Bush's 'your with us or against us speech.'
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I guess yall just totally disregarded my post, oh well what do I expect.
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I like the point trauma made with some quotes.
However, in regards to abraham lincoln, the man was firstly a politician. While he may have himself been an aethist if he was to come out and say that openly it would not reflect well on him. Most of the quotes you gathered were from different addresses he gave. Well he was president of a christian country, of course he must speak of the greatness of christianity at times. Many aethists change later in life, therefore previous admissions of faith don't matter if a man dies an aethist. His quotes in support of christianity don't prove anything in my eyes. For instance I have a professor that would frequently praise religions because it was the right thing to do although he never believed in them. Being president it was his duty to show respect towards another man's beliefs, and he did that.
A well known leader cannot be aethist. He would not be accepted, and he would be gaining nothing by openly admitting to it since most of the world lacks respect for aethism. Therefore, too be famous and aethist is a difficult task except for philosophers.
My favorite quote is from Freud who is a bit of an odd character but he makes a good point. Re read it above, the others were just stuff i figured id post.
Infinite, you don't respect those people so what? How can you form a basis for your beliefs if the only people you respect are people that share them. A lot of racists take pride in their racism and they find their support from other racists. If you point out that other people believe differently they would answer the same as you. "who cares i dont respect him anyways."
In either event, I don't really care whether anyone here is aethist, muslim, christian, jewish, hindu. I am bothered only by people that force their beliefs on another to that persons detriment. Take for example Osama Bin Laden, many would say he has an impressive talent for motivating and forcing other people into his way of thinking. When looked at more closely, the situation is quite different. He does not have an amazing talent to shift another man's views to his way of thought, instead he simply targets misguided, lost individuals that are desperately searching for meaning in their lives and gives them a meaning that makes them feel important. The men who serve bin laden are the same who fight in the streets of LA and claim blood or crip. Religious people in all religions use this tactic to convert people to their beliefs. Most people are converted to their religion at birth, hardly a fair time to force a belief on someone. Religious converts that come later in life do so out of a need for belonging and a lack of place in the world. This is a striking observation.
So finally, whether or not you respect freud it doesn't matter, this quote is difficult to argue against.
"It would be very nice if there were a God who created the world and was a benevolent providence, and if there were a moral order in the universe and an after-life; but it is a very striking fact that all this is exactly as we are bound to wish it to be."
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^^ Good points, but as far as Freud; it's just his opinion. It's a statement, it could be argued against very easily by saying I disagree. Freud was a genius, but we also know he wasn't always correct, so I'd take Lincoln or Einstein or Madison's word over his. Peace~
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ya true freud was a bit of a weirdo
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Ant i don't mean to be a bitch but well known leaders can be athiests (though not in the US) as in the UK all of our Labour Prime Ministers were athiests until Tony Blair, who clearly doesn't know what it means to be christian.
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that was my point. there are lots of accomplished aethists.
But followers of most western relgions believe that faith in god or allah is what gives them success.
Maybe it helps, but it can be accomplished without god as well.
I'd rather do it on my own.
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In Isaiah in the bible (Isaiah was a biblical prophet who lived about 650 B.C.), it has a beautiful passage where it says that man walks about in his sparks, but it is only through christ that one can walk in the light.
^^ I take that to mean that sure, inspiration and intelligence and all good things in life are available to us through our own efforts... however, they're only sparks compared to the light that would shine on us if we accepted the saviour in our lives.... maybe Freud would have been an even more accomplished scientist if he were a christian, who knows?
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some great quotes here
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Jesus loves you
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Man...we even got some quotes from Trauma. The closet racist Michael Jackson fan.
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I wonder what happened to Trauma?
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no one can beat what Hitler said in Mein Kempf vol 1
' i believe im doing gods work'
80 million dead corpses later and they still didnt ban Religion ..
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Trauma was a decent poster. I wonder what happened to him too.
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I wonder if Trauma still checks the forum every now and then. I think the Bubbles gay lover thing did him in. I thought it was funny at the time, but it definitely went too far. Trauma was one of the best posters around from his WCKillaz days and the first few years of this forum.
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no one can beat what Hitler said in Mein Kempf vol 1
' i believe im doing gods work'
80 million dead corpses later and they still didnt ban Religion ..
Hitler did not believe in organized religion and God had nothing to do with his political dealings. He may have used some of the terminology, but if you know Third Reich history, you know Hitler would've and tried to wipe out religion. It was an obstacle to people worshiping him completely.
I see that religion can be dangerous, but so is anything if taken to extreme measures.
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r u serious Russell
hitler was a catholic, hence why he din't invade majority Catholic Italy
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I once wanted to become an atheist, but I gave up - they have no holidays.
wait a minute i got 500 posts +1 i'm living the dream. YES! 5 years 500 posts West West!
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r u serious Russell
hitler was a catholic, hence why he din't invade majority Catholic Italy
Yeah i am, he was not a catholic
He viewed religion as a threat to his own power, which is why catholics were put in concentration camps, he viewed this religion as a threat because of the allegiance to a pope/and its hierarchy. Now i know he grew up catholic, but he was not later in life. He persecuted catholics for the same reason natives in america disliked irish coming over during the big waves of immigration (they were seen not loyal to their country but loyal to the pope).
He didnt invade italy because il duce was a political/fascist mentor of sorts for him, they were allies from the start, remember that he had no problem invading catholic Poland
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obviously as Catholic you will try and distance a much demonised character from your faith
that's like saying Bin Laden aint a muslim
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obviously as Catholic you will try and distance a much demonised character from your faith
that's like saying Bin Laden aint a muslim
Lol man Im no catholic or christian for that matter
Bin laden is a muslim, hitler was no catholic
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I could be wrong, but I thought Hitler was raised Catholic as well, but gave up on it as he became an adult.
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lol history is clearly not your strong point
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lol history is clearly not your strong point
Well, I can tell you this: At best for your POV, Hitler's religious views are DISPUTED.
We know that he would and did eliminate anybody of organized religion conflicting with the rule of his state, so wheres the evidence proving he was legitimately religious? I'm not talking about membership to a church, because germans at that time were largely part of churches.
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Well, I can tell you this: At best for your POV, Hitler's religious views are DISPUTED.
We know that he would and did eliminate anybody of organized religion conflicting with the rule of his state, so wheres the evidence proving he was legitimately religious? I'm not talking about membership to a church, because germans at that time were largely part of churches.
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lol, the whole 'Hitler was an atheist' nonsense came from the Religion camp who look to demonise Atheism at every opportunity by claiming brutal dictators are/wer atheists.
this clarifies Hitler's religious affiliations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP_iNCGH9kY
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Of course hitler used religious over/undertones in his speeches and writings, doesnt prove anything
He hated organized religion, but had to use spirituality when speaking/writing he was communicating to a nation of millions who were involved with organized religion
And who the fuck said he was atheist?
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What does being raised a catholic, muslim etc even mean? that they celebrated easter, ramadan? I don't know anything about Hitlers youth but im asking this because i thought that Germany was a very secular country even back then.
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What does being raised a catholic, muslim etc even mean? that they celebrated easter, ramadan? I don't know anything about Hitlers youth but im asking this because i thought that Germany was a very secular country even back then.
It was, Nazism called for devotion to the state, soldiers took an oath DIRECTLY to hitler, the Nazi govt did not want their citizens to be wrapped up in any religion.
Hitler used spirituality, biblical language, and religious type words in a lot of his speeches and writings. If you don't know why he would do this, look at how big a deal obamas supposed muslim faith is to a lot of people here in the US. Hitler was no dummy, he was also no christian or catholic. Do you really think that Hitler would be ok with people worshipping something that was "above" him in any hierarchy? Come on. They even changed Christmas by taking out the "jewish symbols" (star of david, also a huge christian symbol).
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Those accusations of Obama being a muslim just boggles my mind. If he did identify himself as a muslim then that would be the only muslim thing about him since he obviously doesn't pray or fast. Fucking americans.... :)