West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: Nega-Sikotic on January 27, 2010, 09:41:57 AM
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I mean seriously... He had a few good albums alive, a few good when he was dead.. Not like he was a god or w.e... does he really need those scene fags who would probably kill themselves over an "OG"? ::)
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he wasn't a good mc/rapper -
but he was a good artist, and he did create some timeless hiphop music - and he was a fascinating person dat was interestin to many..
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he wasn't a good mc/rapper -
but he was a good artist, and he did create some timeless hiphop music - and he was a fascinating person dat was interestin to many..
True, dare you to go to a 2pac forum and say that ::)
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me thinks the same
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2pac-fourms tend to consist of 18-year old ginger-crackys wit freckless who didn't discover him until 6-7 years after his death.
if 2pac was alive he would probly be ashamed of 99percent of his fanbase!
and if 2pac is alive (which some idiots actually believe), the biggest reason why he is not showin up - would b because of the existence of his fanbase
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spectacular content wise, not the best lyricist. definitely overrated. Im more of a biggie fan, east coast nigga.
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spectacular content wise, not the best lyricist. definitely overrated. Im more of a biggie fan, east coast nigga.
Biggie, to me, was overall the best emcee, Pac had a good work ethic and had some deep songs no doubt, but I personally will bump LAD a little more than AEOM
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2pac-fourms tend to consist of 18-year old ginger-crackys wit freckless who didn't discover him until 6-7 years after his death.
if 2pac was alive he would probly be ashamed of 99percent of his fanbase!
and if 2pac is alive (which some idiots actually believe), the biggest reason why he is not showin up - would b because of the existence of his fanbase
agree 100%
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Yes you are.
Now that you have an answer. Go listen to "your" above average raps.
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2pac-fourms tend to consist of 18-year old ginger-crackys wit freckless who didn't discover him until 6-7 years after his death.
if 2pac was alive he would probly be ashamed of 99percent of his fanbase!
and if 2pac is alive (which some idiots actually believe), the biggest reason why he is not showin up - would b because of the existence of his fanbase
DISagree 100%...
...2pac was very into self-aggrandizement. All the imagery he used in his music, the "Black Jesus" concepts. He was very meticulous in setting himself up as a larger than life, mythical figure. Check the lines from Mackevelli album, there are plenty of them, this one is from "Against All Odds"...
--"I probably be murdered for the shit that I said/ Be a legend/ Breathe in the dead"---
2pac always loved his fans and no doubt if he were alive somewhere today he be very happy to see how his legend lives on!
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2pac-fourms tend to consist of 18-year old ginger-crackys wit freckless who didn't discover him until 6-7 years after his death.
if 2pac was alive he would probly be ashamed of 99percent of his fanbase!
and if 2pac is alive (which some idiots actually believe), the biggest reason why he is not showin up - would b because of the existence of his fanbase
DISagree 100%...
...2pac was very into self-aggrandizement. All the imagery he used in his music, the "Black Jesus" concepts. He was very meticulous in setting himself up as a larger than life, mythical figure. Check the lines from Mackevelli album, there are plenty of them, this one is from "Against All Odds"...
--"I probably be murdered for the shit that I said/ Be a legend/ Breathe in the dead"---
2pac always loved his fans and no doubt if he were alive somewhere today he be very happy to see how his legend lives on!
has Biggie such a line?? no. end of the discussion!
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Biggie, to me, was overall the best emcee, Pac had a good work ethic and had some deep songs no doubt, but I personally will bump LAD a little more than AEOM
2pac was asked in an interview if he thought he was the best rapper/emcee. He responded that he may not be the best, but that he was the realest. And that is true. 2pac gave his life for his art and his craft. He strove to be the greatest and be a legend. Most rappers are just that...rappers. But 2pac was a true artist and mythical-like figure.
...and by the way, while we are on the subject, even as an emcee/rapper, I think by the time his 3rd album and everything thereafter nobody could doubt his skills or say he was average!
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It seems to be the thing the last few years to say pac was over rated, I think this has actually made duke under rated, pac is the shit, ofcourse hes not the most lyrical emcee, or had the best flow ever, but as a whole, you cant fuck with him. Me Against The World >>>>>>>>>
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Yes u are.
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I also never understood why 2Pac was considered as the GOAT, he was a good MC but there is better that is for sure with all respect due.
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Yes u are.
apparently not guy...
and why people bringin biggie up in here? its not a comparison, its a question concerning pac...now..
average..no....overrated...oh fuck yes..
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Was 2Pac the greatest emcee of all time? How about the greatest rapper of all time? There are different ways to look at this question, primarily because there are different ways to define “emcee” and “rapper”. KRS-One once wrote that “rappers spit rhymes that are mostly illegal/ emcees spit rhymes to uplift their people”. 2Pac did both. Biggie did only one of the two. Does that make 2Pac a better emcee than Biggie? Not necessarily. If you prefer to view an emcee in the more technical sense (i.e. flow, cadence, timbre, flexibility), Biggie was ahead of 2Pac by a long shot. But at the same time, Big’s subject matter was narrow as a grain of rice. It’s a shame these two brothers were – and still are – endlessly compared to one another when their styles were so diverse.
To compare Big and ‘Pac is natural, but leave their albums out of it. Big’s albums sit amongst East coast elite records like Illmatic, Reasonable Doubt, and The Infamous – gritty at heart. 2Pac’s albums, at least his earlier ones, fit more appropriately alongside provocateurs like Ice Cube, Cypress Hill and Public Enemy. I say if you can’t appreciate an early ‘Pac record, you probably wouldn’t dig Death Certificate or Yo! Bum Rush the Show either.
Combat Jack’s point that 2Pac is overrated is not unsubstantiated. In fact, I’ve often said that 2Pac is overrated for all the wrong reasons and by the same token underrated or underappreciated for all the wrong reasons. He’s overrated by people who typecast 2Pac for songs like “Hail Mary”, “Hit ‘Em Up” and “California Love”; he’s underappreciated by people – like Combat Jack – who overlook amazing performances like Me Against the World’s “So Many Tears” and “Lord Knows” or the Above the Rim soundtrack highlight “Pain”. How could “Dear Mama” and “Old School” be the only good songs you take away from Me Against the World? In my book, ‘Pac’s soulfully-pronounced “ee” and “ah” vocals from “So Many Tears” are deeper and more profound than most rappers’ discographies. But maybe I’m just a stan, right? Maybe. So how ‘bout we take a step away from the music and discuss 2Pac’s background.
2Pac emerged from a family of Black Panthers and revolutionaries. His mother, Afeni Shakur, was hit with 150(!) charges of conspiracy against the United States. ‘Pac’s stepfather, Mutulu Shakur, was on the FBI’s most wanted list. Mutulu’s sister, Assata Shakur, escaped from jail and sought refuge in Cuba. This is where 2Pac comes from. As a youth, ‘Pac excelled in academic studies, taking up interests in acting and dance, as well as music and poetry. Socially conscious and aware from a young age, ‘Pac exhibited his egalitarian points of view. This is what 2Pac was about. For a generation that didn’t have a King or a Malcolm, ‘Pac was poised to fill the void that Jackson or Sharpton’s generational distance simply couldn’t.
In 1991, 2Pac was brutally assaulted by Oakland police. This took place in the same year as the Rodney King beating and as such didn’t attain the media attention it probably should have received. In 1992, a teenager in Texas, claiming he had been influenced by 2Pac’s music, killed a cop; Vice President Dan Quaylin (sorry, Quayle) even stepped in on the controversy, pinpointing 2Pac as a problem child and railing against his lyrics. This only fueled ‘Pac with more energy for his second record.
In 1993, 2Pac spotted a couple of drunk, off-duty officers harassing somebody. ‘Pac stepped out of his car and an altercation soon ensued. As told by Mopreme Shakur, ‘Pac got down on one knee and shot both of these cops in the ass. Literally, shot them in the ass. And he beat the case soon afterwards, dancing his way out of court. Now that’s gangsta. Later that year, ‘Pac was hit with a rape charge which, until his death, he vehemently denied any wrongdoing. On a posthumously-released track, ‘Pac spit: “Tell the world I feel guilty to being anxious/ Ain't no way in hell, that I could ever be rapist/”. In 1994, 2Pac assaulted the Hughes Brothers at a music video shoot. He also dated Madonna for a while. Later on that year, 2Pac was gunned down in a recording studio lobby, hit by bullets on all angles of his body. As 2Pac was being wheeled off into an ambulance, he infamously greeted photographers with a present: the bird. That’s right. Bandaged up, being carted off by paramedics, ‘Pac was still ‘Pac.
So just to recap, in four short years, 2Pac assumed the role of Rodney King, Kobe Bryant and Mike Tyson with a little bit of Malcolm X, all in one. Add to that, he essentially survived an assassination attempt. Add to that, ‘Pac was only 23 in 1994. I haven’t even gotten into 1995 and 1996. Yet.
In 1995, 2Pac served his prison sentence at Clinton Correctional Facility while his album, Me Against the World, reached number one on the Billboard 200 charts. 2Pac was and still is the only artist to go #1 while in jail. (Give it up, Gucci and Boosie, it’ll never happen.) The album also moved a quarter-million copies in its first week, a number unseen by any rap artist at the time.
1996 was the year that 2Pac became a supernova. He dropped All Eyez on Me, a vicious record with threat-filled bangers and anthems. “Hit ‘Em Up” was – and still is – the greatest diss record ever released. And the rest is history. 2Pac got shot up in Vegas, spent seven days in the hospital while the world prayed for him, and then he died at the age of 25.
It’s no surprise that 2Pac died at such a young age since he lived life at such an accelerated speed. No other rapper/emcee has a life story that even attempts to come close to ‘Pac’s. And I haven’t even discussed his cultural impact, his movies, or analyzed his music, let alone his poetic lyricism and unmatched passion. Overrated? I think not.
http://hiphopisread.blogspot.com/2009/11/tupac-shakur-still-overlooked.html
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Yes u are.
Yeah, the answer to the thread is "YES U ARE".
...And for those that say 2pac wasn't the best emcee/rapper, do you really think he would sound dope if he was trying to rap with a Rakim/Biggie/Nas type of flow? You have to understand every rapper has their own style. 2pac's style was that he rapped from his heart, from his gut. He would of sounded wack trying to flow and rap like Eminem on "Just Don't Give A Fuck"
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If you listen to Makaveli The Don and than say he was not an mc? You just stupid!!! That guy may have not been the best MC but there is a lot of great mc's!! Thats not rare!! 2Pac was rare! He was a poet, Mc, Political, conscience, passionate motherfucker!! Lyrics aint everything in rap! His flow was sick! His passion and delivery! He was a sick writer! Sick hooks! I mean, i think thats what makes a great mc! When your versatile! Jordan was not a better passer than magic or a better shooter than bird but he was still the best player in the nba! He was not the best at one thing but Pac was great at many things!! His messages! His music was for everyone! I mean if he is not your favorite, i understand but to say he was overrated is plain stupid!! If the OG's in the game like Nas or Snoop Or Dre or eminem etc etc say he was great, why the fuck should i care what u think!! They are the legends, who are u??? Thats just how i see it! You also have to consider that Pac was only like 25! Dude was not even at his peak yet! Maybe that the reason why you the only person who though he was average! Cuz you wrong homie!!! hahahaha
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If you listen to Makaveli The Don and than say he was not an mc? You just stupid!!! That guy may have not been the best MC but there is a lot of great mc's!! Thats not rare!! 2Pac was rare! He was a poet, Mc, Political, conscience, passionate motherfucker!! Lyrics aint everything in rap! His flow was sick! His passion and delivery! He was a sick writer! Sick hooks! I mean, i think thats what makes a great mc! When your versatile! Jordan was not a better passer than magic or a better shooter than bird but he was still the best player in the nba! He was not the best at one thing but Pac was great at many things!! His messages! His music was for everyone! I mean if he is not your favorite, i understand but to say he was overrated is plain stupid!! If the OG's in the game like Nas or Snoop Or Dre or eminem etc etc say he was great, why the fuck should i care what u think!! They are the legends, who are u??? Thats just how i see it! You also have to consider that Pac was only like 25! Dude was not even at his peak yet! Maybe that the reason why you the only person who though he was average! Cuz you wrong homie!!! hahahaha
i agree with you, but if you don't care what he thinks, why you writer a big paragraph in response? lol
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Lol I'm loving how some dick riders are saying my opinion is wrong.
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fuck having lyrics or storytelling lines n shyt, when you have an artist that changes the game and makes u think, makes people think then who gives a fuck about biggie and his delivery. when you have an artist that 14 years later after his death still runs the rap game in certain ways then fuck the methapors & all that lil kiddie shyt, when you have an artist that makes you make better decisions in life just by learning from his mistakes then fuck mcing....whether everyone in this forum likes it or not 2pac is bigger than hip hop, its just the way it is simple...
i will be the first one to admit that my number one rapper is pac & aint nothing wrong wit that, call me a dickrider or watever but 30 years from now they will still remember pac anyone else is basically number 2 end of story.... ;D
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Comparing a rapper like Ice Cube to 2pac is like comparing Ice Cube to wacka flocka
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fuck having lyrics or storytelling lines n shyt, when you have an artist that changes the game and makes u think, makes people think then who gives a fuck about biggie and his delivery. when you have an artist that 14 years later after his death still runs the rap game in certain ways then fuck the methapors & all that lil kiddie shyt, when you have an artist that makes you make better decisions in life just by learning from his mistakes then fuck mcing....whether everyone in this forum likes it or not 2pac is bigger than hip hop, its just the way it is simple...
i will be the first one to admit that my number one rapper is pac & aint nothing wrong wit that, call me a dickrider or watever but 30 years from now they will still remember pac anyone else is basically number 2 end of story.... ;D
Co-Sign!
2pac is a legend we are talking about greatest of all time. No other rappers can compare or are worth debating his name with.
He was the voice of a whole generation...
If you want to have a debate about his greatness then we need to compare with names such as these... Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, Elvis Presley, Van Gogh, Shakespeare, Malcolm X, Lucky Dube, James Dean, JFK, Michael Jackson...people who were the voice of their generation.
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If you listen to Makaveli The Don and than say he was not an mc? You just stupid!!! That guy may have not been the best MC but there is a lot of great mc's!! Thats not rare!! 2Pac was rare! He was a poet, Mc, Political, conscience, passionate motherfucker!! Lyrics aint everything in rap! His flow was sick! His passion and delivery! He was a sick writer! Sick hooks! I mean, i think thats what makes a great mc! When your versatile! Jordan was not a better passer than magic or a better shooter than bird but he was still the best player in the nba! He was not the best at one thing but Pac was great at many things!! His messages! His music was for everyone! I mean if he is not your favorite, i understand but to say he was overrated is plain stupid!! If the OG's in the game like Nas or Snoop Or Dre or eminem etc etc say he was great, why the fuck should i care what u think!! They are the legends, who are u??? Thats just how i see it! You also have to consider that Pac was only like 25! Dude was not even at his peak yet! Maybe that the reason why you the only person who though he was average! Cuz you wrong homie!!! hahahaha
i agree with you, but if you don't care what he thinks, why you writer a big paragraph in response? lol
Cmon Homie??? You get the point dont you? How else am i supposed to let him know what i think! Even if i dont care, it dont mean u cant say it!! Im making a Point!
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Lol I'm loving how some dick riders are saying my opinion is wrong.
Im also loving how stupid you looking!!! YEEEEESSS!!! I LOVE IT!!!!
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dude is just starving for attention saying that cmon now
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dude is just starving for attention saying that cmon now
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*sigh* i knew this would happen-
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-tiles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
content matter, interesting characteriscs, timeless music, legacy and charisma can't outweigh EVERYTHING for an artist lol - therefore, 2pac is overrated, and cant never ever be the greatest of all time, simple
NOW, i kno ya wanna think im crazy fo this, but rest assure - dont get it twisted, im probly a bigger 2pac-fan than most of u
all im sayin is, dat 2pac was overrated and the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
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No matter wat ur opinion is, Pac eats ur fav rapper any day. Too sad he had to go away so early. Imagine If I die 2nite frm MATW, tht beat is some difficult to rhyme over bt Pac made it seem so simple. Throwin P's like it aint shit.
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*sigh* i knew this would happen-
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-tiles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
content matter, interesting characteriscs, timeless music, legacy and charisma can't outweigh EVERYTHING for an artist lol - therefore, 2pac is overrated, and cant never ever be the greatest of all time, simple
NOW, i kno ya wanna think im crazy fo this, but rest assure - dont get it twisted, im probly a bigger 2pac-fan than most of u
all im sayin is, dat 2pac was overrated and the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
he is the greatest of all time no matter what u say, u just one person & ur opinion can't match millions of opinions so just quit while u can homie or u gonna join long beach is azztive retarded level with retarded comments & threads....2pac is the G.O.A.T. ;) that's just the way it is...
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lol, if u wanna debate - u better bring facts dat claim the opposite - otherwise i'll destroy u vocabularly within seconds, homie ;)
millions of niggas feel like he's the best? welll, ther's another million niggas who feels the oppsiet.
"just the way it is" - man, shut dat up - and articulate urself factual instead, clown :laugh:
why do u feel he is the best?
break down ur opinions, homie.. let's debate
i probly like pac more than u, youngster- but seriously, there isn't anythin called "just the way it its"
2pac ain't moses, for christ sake - and free passes aren't givin out to anyone when rankin the best niggas of all time in the rapgame
break it down for me
the yins wit 2pac - the artist
and the yangs wit 2pac - the artist
feel me?
;D
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the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
That's what's up! Greatest Hip Hop artist/poet any day. Legitimate opinion! Greatest MC? How?
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pac was very much so a great mc..pac was very much so a great rapper....name one hiphop artist that gave u the whole package!!dont worry,i can wait. 8)
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lol, if u wanna debate - u better bring facts dat claim the opposite - otherwise i'll destroy u vocabularly within seconds, homie ;)
millions of niggas feel like he's the best? welll, ther's another million niggas who feels the oppsiet.
"just the way it is" - man, shut dat up - and articulate urself factual instead, clown :laugh:
why do u feel he is the best?
break down ur opinions, homie.. let's debate
i probly like pac more than u, youngster- but seriously, there isn't anythin called "just the way it its"
2pac ain't moses, for christ sake - and free passes aren't givin out to anyone when rankin the best niggas of all time in the rapgame
break it down for me
the yins wit 2pac - the artist
and the yangs wit 2pac - the artist
feel me?
;D
lmao youngsta, nigga please i seen pac live 3 times im 37 years old there's nothing you can tell me at all kid..i look at it from all angles like you but i also put it all in one package as a complete artist...there's no more complete artist than 2pac...example michael jordan is the greatest ever but not all parts of his game were the best but put it all in one package & look at it as 1 and you got the greatest as voted by millions of people..same goes for pac...as voted by millions people....when u seen 2pac live in concert which i know u never did then maybe u can talk til then.... ;)
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*sigh* i knew this would happen-
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-tiles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
content matter, interesting characteriscs, timeless music, legacy and charisma can't outweigh EVERYTHING for an artist lol - therefore, 2pac is overrated, and cant never ever be the greatest of all time, simple
NOW, i kno ya wanna think im crazy fo this, but rest assure - dont get it twisted, im probly a bigger 2pac-fan than most of u
all im sayin is, dat 2pac was overrated and the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
As far as I can see no-one has said he's the greatest 'rapper', but the greatest artist.
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*sigh* i knew this would happen-
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-tiles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
content matter, interesting characteriscs, timeless music, legacy and charisma can't outweigh EVERYTHING for an artist lol - therefore, 2pac is overrated, and cant never ever be the greatest of all time, simple
NOW, i kno ya wanna think im crazy fo this, but rest assure - dont get it twisted, im probly a bigger 2pac-fan than most of u
all im sayin is, dat 2pac was overrated and the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
As far as I can see no-one has said he's the greatest 'rapper', but the greatest artist.
fuck being a rapper, if u can be a complete artist that's when people remember u, only lil kids from the east coast remember rappers lmao...thats all that backpack kiddie shyt that fabtoxicp likes lmao...
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*sigh* i knew this would happen-
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-tiles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
content matter, interesting characteriscs, timeless music, legacy and charisma can't outweigh EVERYTHING for an artist lol - therefore, 2pac is overrated, and cant never ever be the greatest of all time, simple
NOW, i kno ya wanna think im crazy fo this, but rest assure - dont get it twisted, im probly a bigger 2pac-fan than most of u
all im sayin is, dat 2pac was overrated and the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
why not?and who u think can get the best fucking rapper.....aint no best!!!everybody needs to just stop it.
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*sigh* i knew this would happen-
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-tiles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
content matter, interesting characteriscs, timeless music, legacy and charisma can't outweigh EVERYTHING for an artist lol - therefore, 2pac is overrated, and cant never ever be the greatest of all time, simple
NOW, i kno ya wanna think im crazy fo this, but rest assure - dont get it twisted, im probly a bigger 2pac-fan than most of u
all im sayin is, dat 2pac was overrated and the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
why not?and who u think can get the best fucking rapper.....aint no best!!!everybody needs to just stop it.
if anyone can get the best mc, lyricist, content matter & all that it would be rakim not no fuck ass biggie. rakim himself has said pac is the greatest ever so you do the math....
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so the fact dat 2pac gave a good show, makes him the GOAT? i asked for a debate, where is it?.. bring up real proof to back up what ur sayin.. there isn't anythin called "just the way it is" - every opinion is individual - but there seems to also be a general opinion on 2pac the artist - dat he was "the goat", which i (like many else) feel is overrated.. 2pac was a complete artist, yes - in many ways, very much so - but he lacked the skills of an mc (generally speakin) - which DEFINITELY is the most important-factor dat u should have in mind, when rankin ppl wit "the goat"-title. how can he be the fuckin "goat" if he can't rap? should the other things he accomplished outweigh him for dat, and give him a "free-pass"? NO, dat's bullshit!
he could put on a good show like u say, right?
plus - intriguing and captivating charisma/voice
plus - occasionaly great content-matter
plus - a bunch of other things
BUT HE WASN't A GOOD MC/RAPPER period, the most important thing - how can he then be the "goat".?
pac was the best "artist", BUT he wan't the best rapper - therefore, i cant se him bein the goat
the nigga could'nt even offthedome-freestyle for christ sake, and im bettin u 10 stacks dat the nigga would've been slaughtered in a battle-cypher by every other nigga from Tha Row (xcept mayb Daz)
I AM NOT bashin ur hero, im a big fan just like u - but i feel like he is overrated, and im stickin to it - which a million other niggas feel as well
no need to be immature about it, and sream "what are u talkin about! hahaha woot-woot"
come on, now..
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rakim himself has said pac is the greatest ever so you do the math....
lol, where'd u get dat from? bullshit
he said dat he felt CANIBUS (for christ sake) was the most ultimate rapper to him - in an old interview in Vibe Magazine
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so the fact dat 2pac gave a good show, makes him the GOAT? i asked for a debate, where is it?.. bring up real proof to back up what ur sayin.. there isn't anythin called "just the way it is" - every opinion is individual - but there seems to also be a general opinion on 2pac the artist - dat he was "the goat", which i (like many else) feel is overrated.. 2pac was a complete artist, yes - in many ways, very much so - but he lacked the skills of an mc (generally speakin) - which DEFINITELY is the most important-factor dat u should have in mind, when rankin ppl wit "the goat"-title. how can he be the fuckin "goat" if he can't rap? should the other things he accomplished outweigh him for dat, and give him a "free-pass"? NO, dat's bullshit!
he could put on a good show like u say, right?
plus - intriguing and captivating charisma/voice
plus - occasionaly great contain-matter
plus - a bunch of other things
BUT HE WASN't A GOOD MC/RAPPER period, the most important thing - how can he then be the "goat".?
pac was the best "artist", BUT he wan't the best rapper - therefore, i cant se him bein the goat
the nigga could'nt even offthedome-freestyle for christ sake, and im bettin u 10 stacks dat the nigga would've been slaughtered in a battle-cypher by every other nigga from Tha Row (xcept mayb Daz)
I AM NOT bashin ur hero, im a big fan just like u - but i feel like he is overrated, and im stickin to it - which a million other niggas feel as well
no need to be immature about it, and sream "what are u talkin about! hahaha woot-woot"
come on, now..
like i said before none of the shyt u saying is really important, the facts, the sales, the numbers of sales speak volumes. actions speak louder than ur opinion, i dont gotta prove anything to u cause the artist himself proved it and keeps proving it for generations that keep coming & coming. fuck freestyling cause no one raps for free haha....and with this im outty.. ;)
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so the fact dat 2pac gave a good show, makes him the GOAT? i asked for a debate, where is it?.. bring up real proof to back up what ur sayin.. there isn't anythin called "just the way it is" - every opinion is individual - but there seems to also be a general opinion on 2pac the artist - dat he was "the goat", which i (like many else) feel is overrated.. 2pac was a complete artist, yes - in many ways, very much so - but he lacked the skills of an mc (generally speakin) - which DEFINITELY is the most important-factor dat u should have in mind, when rankin ppl wit "the goat"-title. how can he be the fuckin "goat" if he can't rap? should the other things he accomplished outweigh him for dat, and give him a "free-pass"? NO, dat's bullshit!
he could put on a good show like u say, right?
plus - intriguing and captivating charisma/voice
plus - occasionaly great contain-matter
plus - a bunch of other things
BUT HE WASN't A GOOD MC/RAPPER period, the most important thing - how can he then be the "goat".?
pac was the best "artist", BUT he wan't the best rapper - therefore, i cant se him bein the goat
the nigga could'nt even offthedome-freestyle for christ sake, and im bettin u 10 stacks dat the nigga would've been slaughtered in a battle-cypher by every other nigga from Tha Row (xcept mayb Daz)
I AM NOT bashin ur hero, im a big fan just like u - but i feel like he is overrated, and im stickin to it - which a million other niggas feel as well
no need to be immature about it, and sream "what are u talkin about! hahaha woot-woot"
come on, now..
Damn homie,u giving props..and shooting him down at the same time...make up your mind silly rabbitt.
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Average rappers don't possess legacies in the manner in which Tupac does.
Name another artist that's currently of his stature right now... i'll wait.
and to talk about his emceee skills.... he's not around to show us his growth,
how can you just assume that he wouldn't have grown lyrically?
..not that I even agree that his lyrics were subpar.. that's baseless to true fans of his work.
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Tupac was the most influential rapper of all-time - if you think he's average then what do you call today's mainstream rappers?
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untouchable
where am i talkin about sales, Einstein?
seriously, are u backin away..? ???
come on now, playboy.. lets discuss
damn, u achieved alot
in provin to me what u were feelin concerning ur hero Tupac Shakur..
LOL
;D
and u are definitely NOT 37. :D
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and to talk about his emceee skills.... he's not around to show us his growth,
how can you just assume that he wouldn't have grown lyrically?
now dat isn't relevant, for christ sake - dat's hypothetial "what if?"-thinking.. maybe Eazy-E would've evolved into another Chino Xl
come on now, Shiest..
;D
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cool.. I'll take that.
Now allow me to pull out Hiroshima..
--- Name another average rapper that so MANY OTHER ARTISTS IMITATED AND IMITATE, MIMIC AND TRY SO HARD TO BE LIKE TODAY....?
..again, i'll Wait. LoL. 8)
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rakim himself has said pac is the greatest ever so you do the math....
lol, where'd u get dat from? bullshit
he said dat he felt CANIBUS (for christ sake) was the most ultimate rapper to him - in an old interview in Vibe Magazine
pac could not freestyl!!u crazy on a higher level..(easy mo bee) said himself pac could come off the dome..go study ya art cuzz.
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dats whatsup, Shiest.. :D
besides Pac, dat would have to be Jay-Z
but i feel like niggas is just tryin to mimick Shakur's style - not so much his rapstyle :-\
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rakim himself has said pac is the greatest ever so you do the math....
lol, where'd u get dat from? bullshit
he said dat he felt CANIBUS (for christ sake) was the most ultimate rapper to him - in an old interview in Vibe Magazine
pac could not freestyl!!u crazy on a higher level..(easy mo bee) said himself pac could come off the dome..go study ya art cuzz.
study ur art, cuzz
pac couldnt freestyle offthedome - no.
and the limited spit dat did come out the dome - wasn't anythin dope
the shit he did wit Snoopy off the dome (and dat is the only xample i can think of) - "Cure For This". dat was wack lyrically
and he sure as hell wasn't the ultimate battle-mc. dats fuckin bullshit
anyone can rap offthedome nigga - even fuckin MC hammer. what counts is when ur puttin in a good
performance lyrcialy, when doin it -
and pac wasn't an artist wit the vocabularly when freestylin offthedome -
"NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGAAAAZ KNOOOOOOOOOO MEEEEEEEEE, BUT THEY DONT KNO ABOUT DEEE OOO DOUBLE GEEEEEE, THEY DOOONT KNOOOO!"
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dats whatsup, Shiest.. :D
besides Pac, dat would have to be Jay-Z
but i feel like niggas is just tryin to mimick Shakur's style - not so much his rapstyle :-\
I encourage you to review modern rap since 2000 and remind yourself of all the (style) and (rapstyle) imitations that surfaced.
Not only was his (what we know today as) "Swag" blatantly mimic'd but at one point in time an entire label dedicated their sound to his Rapstyle.
do i even need to say who..? we all know..
we can debate all day on whether or not he was a great emcee but the fact is no other rapper average or elite is of his stature..
he is the equivalent of Michael Jackson in Hip-Hop.. there is no other artist that you can put next to him on the Legendary tier.
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he is the equivalent of Michael Jackson in Hip-Hop.. there is no other artist that you can put next to him on the Legendary tier.
dat is very true (altho 65percent puts Biggie higher on the tier) - the debate is tho, is he overrated or not? does Mr Shakur deserve the "goat"-title..? i feel like he doesn't..
and im quoting myself why..
""so the fact dat 2pac gave a good show, makes him the GOAT? i asked for a debate, where is it?.. bring up real proof to back up what ur sayin.. there isn't anythin called "just the way it is" - every opinion is individual - but there seems to also be a general opinion on 2pac the artist - dat he was "the goat", which i (like many else) feel is overrated.. 2pac was a complete artist, yes - in many ways, very much so - but he lacked the skills of an mc (generally speakin) - which DEFINITELY is the most important-factor dat u should have in mind, when rankin ppl wit "the goat"-title. how can he be the fuckin "goat" if he can't rap? should the other things he accomplished outweigh him for dat, and give him a "free-pass"? NO, dat's bullshit!
he could put on a good show like u say, right?
plus - intriguing and captivating charisma/voice
plus - occasionaly great content-matter
plus - a bunch of other things
BUT HE WASN't A GOOD MC/RAPPER period, the most important thing - how can he then be the "goat".?
pac was the best "artist", BUT he wan't the best rapper - therefore, i cant se him bein the goat
the nigga could'nt even offthedome-freestyle for christ sake, and im bettin u 10 stacks dat the nigga would've been slaughtered in a battle-cypher by every other nigga from Tha Row (xcept mayb Daz)
I AM NOT bashin ur hero, im a big fan just like u - but i feel like he is overrated, and im stickin to it - which a million other niggas feel as well
no need to be immature about it, and sream "what are u talkin about! hahaha woot-woot"
come on, now..""
Not only was his (what we know today as) "Swag" blatantly mimic'd but at one point in time an entire label dedicated their sound to his Rapstyle.
do i even need to say who..? we all know..
and besides DMX and Ja Rule - i cant think of any other niggas dat mimcked pac's rapstyle.
maybe Tha Realsest, Blac Haze, Krazy - but they're all insignificant really
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So is it possible to take the GOAT title as overall Hip Hop ARTIST without being the best MC? If yes, what's the debate about? If not, he IS either the best rapper ever or he ain't.
I don't feel that he's the best MC ever, but also don't think he has to be for being the GOAT?
Some of y'all get really heated if someone consider him not to be the best rapper ever but pointing out that he's the greates artist. WTF?
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i feel like u cant b crowned "THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME" if ur abilities lyricaly and on the microphone can't weigh as much as ur other positive characteristics - dat's what im debatin about
when ur ranking an hiphop-artist, u have to keep the most important thing in mind - the word itself: "Hip Hop" microphone/master of the crowd-skills
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I think the earlier Michael Jordan analogy was a superior point..
MJ obviously wasn't the best in every aspect of the game but he is still the GOAT, no debate would be accepted.
It's like the Pound for Pound rankings in Boxing..
Muhammad Ali is the GOAT and he's been KO'd before.. that would be equivalent to lacking Mic skills as a Hip-Hop Artist.
Ali is the GOAT but we also have Mike Tysons and Floyd Mayweathers who are also the greats of our generation.
you mentioned Ja and Dmx as the imitators but u seemed to only have noted the forerunners..
also whether or not the imitators were significant to the masses is as irrelevant as my point about Pac's lyrical growth if he was alive, right?
did u forget No Limit Records and a slew of other 'significant' rappers Pac also (influenced)? lol.. 8)
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That's how I feel bout Biggie. Lol. I don't see 2Pac average, at all, I think he deserves all the titles he gets. I think Biggie is an average rapper in my honest opinion. But this son is on a whole notha muthafuckin' level.
the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
That's what's up! Greatest Hip Hop artist/poet any day. Legitimate opinion! Greatest MC? How?
You listen to Pac, get the fuckkkkkk outta here? You nigga? YOU? Oh really? Stop playin' nigga, stop playin'.
What's your favorite joint? Only God Can Judge Me? Worddddd nigga, worddd? Ha ha. I know that's what it is.
-
Plus how could you listen to them tracks like 'Keep Ya Head Up' and get a certain emotion than you hear another nigga, all these other rappers, try to do a joint like that, and you ain't feel shit.
Prolly cuz Tupac was a genuine artist in my opinion, unlike these other cats.
All these other niggas lack artistry, shit is gay. Tupac could actually write.
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I think the earlier Michael Jordan analogy was a superior point..
MJ obviously wasn't the best in every aspect of the game but he is still the GOAT, no debate would be accepted.
It's like the Pound for Pound rankings in Boxing..
Muhammad Ali is the GOAT and he's been KO'd before.. that would be equivalent to lacking Mic skills as a Hip-Hop Artist.
of course, no one is perfect - and every known "best" character in every known "genre" of entertaiment have at least one minus attached to him/herself. nobody is perfect..
the thing is, i feel like pac got too many of those "minuses", in order for him to keep dat famous title. u feel me? i dont think he deserves the goat-title and many agrees wit me - dat's why i fired up this debate.
many "minuses" equls: lack of rapping-skills
and i defintiely don't feel like lacking mc-skills, is equivalent to a few K.O's here and there. dat sounds even insane to me.
the best comparison would've been if 2pac took a beating here and there lyricaly in battles - THAT would've been equivalent
noone argues dat 2pac isnt solidifed as officialy bein "the best dat ever did it". we all know dat..
my question is, does he deserve it?
in many ways, i feel simply like dat the bigger percentage of the contributors in this thread is just emotional, because everytin revolves around Mr Tupc Shakur. and it's always been taboo to speak on 2pac shakur
MJ obviously wasn't the best in every aspect of the game but he is still the GOAT, no debate would be accepted.
dat is an individual question - there is at least as many ppl (both generally speakin and through a media-perspective), dat feels like Prince is better - a debate concering dat is also acceptable, and dat comment was just unnecassary
did u forget No Limit Records and a slew of other 'significant' rappers Pac also (influenced)? lol..
Master P never dedicated his style to 2pac's style throughout his whole career - he did so for one album - "MP da last don". and dat was more of a tribute-thing. Ja Rule and DMX were biting..
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I was actually talking about Jordan..
but as far as Jackson.. absolutely no debate would be necessary,
there is only one King and he has been recognized. Everything else is an afterthought.
and Homie, Master P's ENTIRE label was on sum Pac sh*t.
I still own the entire catalog and my point has 100% validity and merit.
Pac aint got that many minuses.. i feel that's puttin xtras on it..
that's what theorists who share your setiments about Pac typically say.
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and Homie, Master P's ENTIRE label was on sum Pac sh*t.
I still own the entire catalog and my point has 100% validity and merit.
C-murder sure, forgot his name - sorry. but i could never in a million years relate Silkk, Mystikal or Mia X etc wit Mr Shakur in style :-\ comon..
Pac aint got that many minuses.. i feel that's puttin xtras on it..
that's what theorists who share your setiments about Pac typically say.
dat's ur opinion, homie - n i respect it.
im stickin to my opinons though -- and i dont think feel like the mentality of "rankin Goat-titles (in HIPHOP) after capabilites on havin skills on the mic" is such a weird and taboo-thing.
If ur the best rapper, u gotta rap - if ur the best skateborder, u gotta skate
simple
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Well if opinions matter..
70+ Million opinions make a hard case to say he was only an average rapper..
Eminem is the highest selling artist in Hip-Hop with only a few million over Pac in total sales..
we all know Eminem is an elite artist lyrically, from freestyle to written.. hate or love his style.
That speaks numbers (no pun intended).
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to bring up soundscan-digits is typical for ppl who doesn't feel like they can contribute more vocabularly to a debate. i could give a fuck about what 70 million people bought. then we might as well add Vanilla ICe's incredibly talented ass to the subject.. fuck dat.
70 million likes 2pac yeah sure, but dat doesnt solidy him as bein "the goat".
and if u can find the word "average" anywhere in any of my prevuious posts, i wil buy u a 2pac-compact disc..
i said dat he was "overrated" nothin else - im probly a bigger pac-fan than 80 percent of the contributors to this thread.
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lol @ contribute more vocabulary
the reality is conformists hate the surfacing of soundscan points because it reminds them of the overall public acceptance of the point they are fighting so hard to invalidate. Before record labels manipulated the manufacturing/retail system, if records sold they were popular.. even if u have to include Vanilla Ice.
The 70 Million point was made to solidify him as more than just an average rapper.. not the GOAT (stay with me here).
if u didn't say average, then i'm obviously not directing that point to you..
this is an open-discussion with multiple 'vocabularies' contained.. lol.
Overrated.. but on who's ranking system..
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the reality is conformists hate the surfacing of soundscan points because it reminds them of the overall public acceptance of the point they are fighting so hard to invalidate.
:D
the reality is dat soundscan-#'s means absolutely "nada" - public opinions means "nada" - when evaluating worthy titles of rappers and their music.
there's nothin u can prove to me, by sayin dat the the typical cd-consumer likes 2pacshakur-music..
if dat would've been the case, then i wonder why Vanilla Ice and/or Will Smith doesn't stand firm on the top-10-list platform of greatest rapper of all time.. cus obvioulsy, alotta cd-consumers like 'em CUS THEY SOLD ALOT OF CD'S, so they gotta be the best rappers right?
right?
lol
Overrated.. but on who's ranking system..
overrated on my ranking-system, Einstein. Lol
and i'm tryin to define why in this specific forum!!
whether ppl agrees wit me or not is irrelvant - and what i would prefer, is a good debate, that isn't ended by babblin irrelevant soundscan-digits dat desn't prove shit..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2WGfqfQ6HM
this bitch sold MILLIONSGAZILLIONS of cd's bck in the late 90's --
but still - there is nothin to this day, dat can be tied to this "music" as positive historicaly, whether it b through the public or anythin in media
sales doesn't mean shit, and i be damned if "history of sales" would be a future-guideline when ranking rappers for top10-lists
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Einstein has said his piece. Thanks for the discussion. 8)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2WGfqfQ6HM
this bitch sold MILLIONSGAZILLIONS of cd's bck in the late 90's --
but still - there is nothin to this day, dat can be tied to this "music" as positive historicaly, whether it b through the public or anythin in media
sales doesn't mean shit, and i be damned if "history of sales" would be a future-guideline when ranking rappers for top10-lists
thats only one song LOL where is that hoe now? ... one hit wonder for lil girls and you compare this to pac?LOL
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Shiest
Ditto..
8)
Hazzard
i wasn't comparing Aqua to 2pac - LMAO ;D
i was just makin an example dat it isn't reasonable in evaluating quality in an artist, even if the soundscan-digits of dat artist is big
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*sigh* i knew this would happen-
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-tiles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
LOL...did you just say the 4 elements of hip-hop are Emcee, flow, mic-capabilities, wordplay? LOL. What were you trying to say? Do you even know what the 4 elements of hip-hop are? Let me teach you some hip-hop 101...
4 Elements of Hip-Hop:
-Rapper
-DJ
-B-Boy (Breakin/"Breakdancing"
-Graffiti
No wonder you think Pac is just average when your understanding of hip-hop is so brief and narrow; how old are you? Maybe you started listening to rap whenever that ignorant South shit started blowing up in the late 90's up till now.
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there, there now mister preacher..
im fully aware of the correct 4 elements of hiphop -
flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities - dat was one element, with 4 different words for it ;)
u misunderstood
i was born in the middle 80's, and my age isn't relevant
and if u don't provide anythin constructive to this thread besides igna'nt blahzay-blahzay, i will most def eat u up within seconds.. ;)
No wonder you think Pac is just average
like i said, i never called pac "average" just "overrated" -
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there, there now mister preacher..
im fully aware of the correct 4 elements of hiphop -
flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities - dat was one element, with 4 different words for it ;)
u misunderstood
LOL... nice try, but if you read your original post which I have quoted above, mentioning that their are "4 elements" to hip-hop was totally irrelevant to what your were saying or to the discussion at hand. It's obvious you were under the assumption that the 4 elements concept had something to do with a rapper and his skill set.
So let me learn you boy, listen up....
See, back in the day the graffiti, DJin, and breakin were just as popular as the rapper. It wasn't till the later 80's and 90's that the rapper became all the focus. So at a hip-hop show back in the day, you may actually find that the rappers job was to hype up the DJ or the breakers, to get the party hype and MC the party the same way a wedding would have an "MC" who keeps everyone entertained during breaks in the action.
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i dont know how well ur brain works, but try to read my quote one last time..
okay, here we go..
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-titles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
u got it?
okay, good..
is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc
that's 3 words really - one, two and three (PLUS- there's an "etc" there too. why would i write "etc" if was talkin about only 3 subjects, hm?)
now, check this out..
there are 4 elements to hiphop
why would i write 4 elements, and mention 3 previously in the same post.
i was talkin about 1 element (the mc-aspect) and i was dividing it to 3 words to describe thoroughly what i thought 2pac was lackin as a stripe
to be honest wit u, my impession is dat normaly someone would understand these writings - but if u dont understand, it's cool.. ;)
and don't preach to me about hiphop, cus i will mindrape u like Yoda, if ur willing to discuss history. i got a few Red Bulls wit me.. i can keep goin for a few hours. its all good ;)
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Technically he wasnt the best but what he said was relevant and still is. He delved deep into his soul and made you connect with him, plus he made songs that actually meant something.
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the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
That's what's up! Greatest Hip Hop artist/poet any day. Legitimate opinion! Greatest MC? How?
You listen to Pac, get the fuckkkkkk outta here? You nigga? YOU? Oh really? Stop playin' nigga, stop playin'.
What's your favorite joint? Only God Can Judge Me? Worddddd nigga, worddd? Ha ha. I know that's what it is.
lo You a fool! Of course it's Lord Knows! ;D
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Anyone who thinks 2pac was "underrated" or "average" is currently under the age of 30.
It has been 13 years since his death and unless you were at least 16 at the time of his death, you could not even fathom how big he was; how important he was.
From 1992 he was in the public eye, for good and bad reasons - if you were 5 yrs old at this time, you can't even think about making an analysis on the impact he had during this time.
His music is now between 13 and 19 years old. You can't compare it to your Lil Wayne or TI's, because it is a completely different genre now. If you are calling him average or underrated, you needed to be alive and following hip hop in early to mid 90's to really give that point of view.
To put it in perspective - Take eminem just after MMLP came out, take Dre after 2001 came out, take Wayne after Carter 3 came out and take TI after his big album came out (i dont follow TI so I dont remember the name) - add all the hype of these artists at said time, and combine it, then multiply it by 8. That is how big Pac was in August 1996.
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i dont know how well ur brain works, but try to read my quote one last time..
okay, here we go..
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-titles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
u got it?
okay, good..
is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc
that's 3 words really - one, two and three (PLUS- there's an "etc" there too. why would i write "etc" if was talkin about only 3 subjects, hm?)
now, check this out..
there are 4 elements to hiphop
why would i write 4 elements, and mention 3 previously in the same post.
i was talkin about 1 element (the mc-aspect) and i was dividing it to 3 words to describe thoroughly what i thought 2pac was lackin as a stripe
to be honest wit u, my impession is dat normaly someone would understand these writings - but if u dont understand, it's cool.. ;)
and don't preach to me about hiphop, cus i will mindrape u like Yoda, if ur willing to discuss history. i got a few Red Bulls wit me.. i can keep goin for a few hours. its all good ;)
Nice try, again. But you still can't explain why you would bring up the 4 elements to make the point you were making? The only reason to bring up the 4 elements would be if you were trying to make a point that Krazy Legs was as great as 2pac because the rapper or "emcee" as you say is just one element and Krazy Legs was the greatest B-boy or something like that, or to say that SEEN was the best graph artist and that 2pac only mastered one element of hip-hop, but that hip-hop culture is 4 elements.
But that wasn't what you were saying at all. This whole thread has only been about 2pac as a rapper, and your whole post was only regarding 2pac and his rap skills. So why would you mention the 4 elements of hip-hop at all unless of course you were confused about what the 4 elements actually were, and you are just an ignorant kid who bumps Lil' Wayne everyday and doesn't really know shit about hip-hop culture and it's history. LOL
And please, I would love for you to try to lecture me on hip-hop history. So go pull up some articles on wikipedia and let me know what you come up with. For once I would like you to try to come with some intelligence, even if your attempt fails, I would enjoy the discussion.
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the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
That's what's up! Greatest Hip Hop artist/poet any day. Legitimate opinion! Greatest MC? How?
You listen to Pac, get the fuckkkkkk outta here? You nigga? YOU? Oh really? Stop playin' nigga, stop playin'.
What's your favorite joint? Only God Can Judge Me? Worddddd nigga, worddd? Ha ha. I know that's what it is.
lo You a fool! Of course it's Lord Knows! ;D
Ahhhh yeah. Why not Life Goes On though? That seems best fit for you. I can see ya ass rappin' along to that. I was expecting you really to say Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find.
Good for you Fraxxx!! 8)
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the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
That's what's up! Greatest Hip Hop artist/poet any day. Legitimate opinion! Greatest MC? How?
You listen to Pac, get the fuckkkkkk outta here? You nigga? YOU? Oh really? Stop playin' nigga, stop playin'.
What's your favorite joint? Only God Can Judge Me? Worddddd nigga, worddd? Ha ha. I know that's what it is.
lo You a fool! Of course it's Lord Knows! ;D
Ahhhh yeah. Why not Life Goes On though? That seems best fit for you. I can see ya ass rappin' along to that. I was expecting you really to say Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find.
Good for you Fraxxx!! 8)
Damn, I really gotta find some agnostic rappers... shit! Guess I gotta stop listening to rap! ;)
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the correct impression ppl should have of him, is dat he was a great poet and artist, more than a great rapper
absolutely, pac deserves the halloffame-mention, but he sure as hell isn't goin down as the best fuckin rapper
That's what's up! Greatest Hip Hop artist/poet any day. Legitimate opinion! Greatest MC? How?
You listen to Pac, get the fuckkkkkk outta here? You nigga? YOU? Oh really? Stop playin' nigga, stop playin'.
What's your favorite joint? Only God Can Judge Me? Worddddd nigga, worddd? Ha ha. I know that's what it is.
lo You a fool! Of course it's Lord Knows! ;D
Ahhhh yeah. Why not Life Goes On though? That seems best fit for you. I can see ya ass rappin' along to that. I was expecting you really to say Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find.
Good for you Fraxxx!! 8)
Damn, I really gotta find some agnostic rappers... shit! Guess I gotta stop listening to rap! ;)
Lol, Lil weirdo.
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there, there now mister preacher..
im fully aware of the correct 4 elements of hiphop -
flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities - dat was one element, with 4 different words for it ;)
u misunderstood
i was born in the middle 80's, and my age isn't relevant
and if u don't provide anythin constructive to this thread besides igna'nt blahzay-blahzay, i will most def eat u up within seconds.. ;)
No wonder you think Pac is just average
like i said, i never called pac "average" just "overrated" -
homie u just got EXSPOSED to not knowing anything about hiphop..fuck the 4 elements of hiphop all up..lmao!!this nigga a phony...like i sad..go study your art...in your case(planet rock)would be a perfect start.. :laugh:
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i dont know how well ur brain works, but try to read my quote one last time..
okay, here we go..
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-titles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
u got it?
okay, good..
is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc
that's 3 words really - one, two and three (PLUS- there's an "etc" there too. why would i write "etc" if was talkin about only 3 subjects, hm?)
now, check this out..
there are 4 elements to hiphop
why would i write 4 elements, and mention 3 previously in the same post.
i was talkin about 1 element (the mc-aspect) and i was dividing it to 3 words to describe thoroughly what i thought 2pac was lackin as a stripe
to be honest wit u, my impession is dat normaly someone would understand these writings - but if u dont understand, it's cool.. ;)
and don't preach to me about hiphop, cus i will mindrape u like Yoda, if ur willing to discuss history. i got a few Red Bulls wit me.. i can keep goin for a few hours. its all good ;)
lmao, damn u still tryin to prove your point since this morning homie.............. ;D
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rakim himself has said pac is the greatest ever so you do the math....
lol, where'd u get dat from? bullshit
he said dat he felt CANIBUS (for christ sake) was the most ultimate rapper to him - in an old interview in Vibe Magazine
he might have said that can-i-bust might have been the best rapper that he heard at that moment but better than even him nah nigga neva that, also i saw him on a source 2pac tribute issue saying that 2pac was the greatest he's seen...see you only look at this whole issue from a rapper's standpoint, yes he couldn't freestyle or flow like rakim or even nas which i believe are both better than biggie n canibust anyday...but the difference between me n u for example is that i look at the whole in 1 you just look at it individually...but you young so i understand homie... ;)
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OMFG how dare you try and strip a man of his nobility in death. He was taken away from us too soon, by the Illuminati cuz he wouldn't sell his ass like Nas, Jay-Z and yes Biggie too (thanks to faggot ass puffy)....Pac and Big shouldn't even be in the same catagory, there not about the same thing. You saw the notorious movie right? they made sure you knew that Biggie sold crack to pregnant mothers, cheats on his wife and abandon his first daughter....while pac is making songs about Killuminati, so many tears and Lord Knows.... Fuck all those post humous albums too, if he didn't release it when he was alive, thats because it sucked!!!!!! WE elected a legend as a people so the illumanti can never take his music and wisdom from us. They raped his legacy by selling all those shytty albums after he died and gave his vocals to Eminem, what the fukk? Anyone who thinks he's average, doesn't go through any of the shyt he used to talk about on records, you can't relate...sounds to me like another rich kid with a fukked up opinion on the greatest artist of all time. of course he ain't gonna be lyrical to a cat who aint feeling the subject matter in the first place.
G.O.A.T....who knows, u could be the illuminati trying to feel out how many people turned their backs on him.
GTFOH
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I think the earlier Michael Jordan analogy was a superior point..
MJ obviously wasn't the best in every aspect of the game but he is still the GOAT, no debate would be accepted.
It's like the Pound for Pound rankings in Boxing..
Muhammad Ali is the GOAT and he's been KO'd before.. that would be equivalent to lacking Mic skills as a Hip-Hop Artist.
Ali is the GOAT but we also have Mike Tysons and Floyd Mayweathers who are also the greats of our generation.
you mentioned Ja and Dmx as the imitators but u seemed to only have noted the forerunners..
also whether or not the imitators were significant to the masses is as irrelevant as my point about Pac's lyrical growth if he was alive, right?
did u forget No Limit Records and a slew of other 'significant' rappers Pac also (influenced)? lol.. 8)
Thanks Shade!!! That was my analogy!!!
-
i dont know how well ur brain works, but try to read my quote one last time..
okay, here we go..
bottomline:
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-titles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
u got it?
okay, good..
is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc
that's 3 words really - one, two and three (PLUS- there's an "etc" there too. why would i write "etc" if was talkin about only 3 subjects, hm?)
now, check this out..
there are 4 elements to hiphop
why would i write 4 elements, and mention 3 previously in the same post.
i was talkin about 1 element (the mc-aspect) and i was dividing it to 3 words to describe thoroughly what i thought 2pac was lackin as a stripe
to be honest wit u, my impession is dat normaly someone would understand these writings - but if u dont understand, it's cool.. ;)
and don't preach to me about hiphop, cus i will mindrape u like Yoda, if ur willing to discuss history. i got a few Red Bulls wit me.. i can keep goin for a few hours. its all good ;)
So who is rated higher than Pac in your scale???
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so the fact dat 2pac gave a good show, makes him the GOAT? i asked for a debate, where is it?.. bring up real proof to back up what ur sayin.. there isn't anythin called "just the way it is" - every opinion is individual - but there seems to also be a general opinion on 2pac the artist - dat he was "the goat", which i (like many else) feel is overrated.. 2pac was a complete artist, yes - in many ways, very much so - but he lacked the skills of an mc (generally speakin) - which DEFINITELY is the most important-factor dat u should have in mind, when rankin ppl wit "the goat"-title. how can he be the fuckin "goat" if he can't rap? should the other things he accomplished outweigh him for dat, and give him a "free-pass"? NO, dat's bullshit!
he could put on a good show like u say, right?
plus - intriguing and captivating charisma/voice
plus - occasionaly great content-matter
plus - a bunch of other things
BUT HE WASN't A GOOD MC/RAPPER period, the most important thing - how can he then be the "goat".?
pac was the best "artist", BUT he wan't the best rapper - therefore, i cant se him bein the goat
the nigga could'nt even offthedome-freestyle for christ sake, and im bettin u 10 stacks dat the nigga would've been slaughtered in a battle-cypher by every other nigga from Tha Row (xcept mayb Daz)
I AM NOT bashin ur hero, im a big fan just like u - but i feel like he is overrated, and im stickin to it - which a million other niggas feel as well
no need to be immature about it, and sream "what are u talkin about! hahaha woot-woot"
come on, now..
Ill murder you on your debate!!!! Bring it on!!! hahaha! I think i can say why he is not overrated!!!
-
so the fact dat 2pac gave a good show, makes him the GOAT? i asked for a debate, where is it?.. bring up real proof to back up what ur sayin.. there isn't anythin called "just the way it is" - every opinion is individual - but there seems to also be a general opinion on 2pac the artist - dat he was "the goat", which i (like many else) feel is overrated.. 2pac was a complete artist, yes - in many ways, very much so - but he lacked the skills of an mc (generally speakin) - which DEFINITELY is the most important-factor dat u should have in mind, when rankin ppl wit "the goat"-title. how can he be the fuckin "goat" if he can't rap? should the other things he accomplished outweigh him for dat, and give him a "free-pass"? NO, dat's bullshit!
he could put on a good show like u say, right?
plus - intriguing and captivating charisma/voice
plus - occasionaly great content-matter
plus - a bunch of other things
BUT HE WASN't A GOOD MC/RAPPER period, the most important thing - how can he then be the "goat".?
pac was the best "artist", BUT he wan't the best rapper - therefore, i cant se him bein the goat
the nigga could'nt even offthedome-freestyle for christ sake, and im bettin u 10 stacks dat the nigga would've been slaughtered in a battle-cypher by every other nigga from Tha Row (xcept mayb Daz)
I AM NOT bashin ur hero, im a big fan just like u - but i feel like he is overrated, and im stickin to it - which a million other niggas feel as well
no need to be immature about it, and sream "what are u talkin about! hahaha woot-woot"
come on, now..
Ill murder you on your debate!!!! Bring it on!!! hahaha! I think i can say why he is not overrated!!
the kid is fighting an already lost battle, he lost by just saying what he said.... ;)
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so the fact dat 2pac gave a good show, makes him the GOAT? i asked for a debate, where is it?.. bring up real proof to back up what ur sayin.. there isn't anythin called "just the way it is" - every opinion is individual - but there seems to also be a general opinion on 2pac the artist - dat he was "the goat", which i (like many else) feel is overrated.. 2pac was a complete artist, yes - in many ways, very much so - but he lacked the skills of an mc (generally speakin) - which DEFINITELY is the most important-factor dat u should have in mind, when rankin ppl wit "the goat"-title. how can he be the fuckin "goat" if he can't rap? should the other things he accomplished outweigh him for dat, and give him a "free-pass"? NO, dat's bullshit!
he could put on a good show like u say, right?
plus - intriguing and captivating charisma/voice
plus - occasionaly great content-matter
plus - a bunch of other things
BUT HE WASN't A GOOD MC/RAPPER period, the most important thing - how can he then be the "goat".?
pac was the best "artist", BUT he wan't the best rapper - therefore, i cant se him bein the goat
the nigga could'nt even offthedome-freestyle for christ sake, and im bettin u 10 stacks dat the nigga would've been slaughtered in a battle-cypher by every other nigga from Tha Row (xcept mayb Daz)
I AM NOT bashin ur hero, im a big fan just like u - but i feel like he is overrated, and im stickin to it - which a million other niggas feel as well
no need to be immature about it, and sream "what are u talkin about! hahaha woot-woot"
come on, now..
Ill murder you on your debate!!!! Bring it on!!! hahaha! I think i can say why he is not overrated!!
the kid is fighting an already lost battle, he lost by just saying what he said.... ;)
Dont get me wrong homie!! The dude had a good argument but i thinking he is fucking up on his definition of MC!!! I think Pac is an MC!! He claims Pac does not have the 4 levels or whatever the fuck!!! I think he is wrong!
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so the fact dat 2pac gave a good show, makes him the GOAT? i asked for a debate, where is it?.. bring up real proof to back up what ur sayin.. there isn't anythin called "just the way it is" - every opinion is individual - but there seems to also be a general opinion on 2pac the artist - dat he was "the goat", which i (like many else) feel is overrated.. 2pac was a complete artist, yes - in many ways, very much so - but he lacked the skills of an mc (generally speakin) - which DEFINITELY is the most important-factor dat u should have in mind, when rankin ppl wit "the goat"-title. how can he be the fuckin "goat" if he can't rap? should the other things he accomplished outweigh him for dat, and give him a "free-pass"? NO, dat's bullshit!
he could put on a good show like u say, right?
plus - intriguing and captivating charisma/voice
plus - occasionaly great content-matter
plus - a bunch of other things
BUT HE WASN't A GOOD MC/RAPPER period, the most important thing - how can he then be the "goat".?
pac was the best "artist", BUT he wan't the best rapper - therefore, i cant se him bein the goat
the nigga could'nt even offthedome-freestyle for christ sake, and im bettin u 10 stacks dat the nigga would've been slaughtered in a battle-cypher by every other nigga from Tha Row (xcept mayb Daz)
I AM NOT bashin ur hero, im a big fan just like u - but i feel like he is overrated, and im stickin to it - which a million other niggas feel as well
no need to be immature about it, and sream "what are u talkin about! hahaha woot-woot"
come on, now..
Ill murder you on your debate!!!! Bring it on!!! hahaha! I think i can say why he is not overrated!!
the kid is fighting an already lost battle, he lost by just saying what he said.... ;)
Dont get me wrong homie!! The dude had a good argument but i thinking he is fucking up on his definition of MC!!! I think Pac is an MC!! He claims Pac does not have the 4 levels or whatever the fuck!!! I think he is wrong!
4 Elements!!! HAHA! My Bad!!
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Dont get me wrong homie!! The dude had a good argument but i thinking he is fucking up on his definition of MC!!! I think Pac is an MC!! He claims Pac does not have the 4 levels or whatever the fuck!!! I think he is wrong!
4 Elements!!! HAHA! My Bad!!
LOL!!! Yeah, that was classic shit right there, he said 2pac didn't have the 4 elements of Hip-Hop. LOL!!!!! Then after I explained to him what the 4 elements of hip-hop really were, he tried to come back and explain himself and just made it worse
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OMFG how dare you try and strip a man of his nobility in death. He was taken away from us too soon, by the Illuminati cuz he wouldn't sell his ass like Nas, Jay-Z and yes Biggie too (thanks to faggot ass puffy)....Pac and Big shouldn't even be in the same catagory, there not about the same thing. You saw the notorious movie right? they made sure you knew that Biggie sold crack to pregnant mothers, cheats on his wife and abandon his first daughter....while pac is making songs about Killuminati, so many tears and Lord Knows.... Fuck all those post humous albums too, if he didn't release it when he was alive, thats because it sucked!!!!!! WE elected a legend as a people so the illumanti can never take his music and wisdom from us. They raped his legacy by selling all those shytty albums after he died and gave his vocals to Eminem, what the fukk? Anyone who thinks he's average, doesn't go through any of the shyt he used to talk about on records, you can't relate...sounds to me like another rich kid with a fukked up opinion on the greatest artist of all time. of course he ain't gonna be lyrical to a cat who aint feeling the subject matter in the first place.
G.O.A.T....who knows, u could be the illuminati trying to feel out how many people turned their backs on him.
GTFOH
... Words can not express how retarded you are.. and btw I used to bump Pac everyday all day, he was (still is to a point) my favorite rapper, when I said average I meant as he wasn't all high and mighty as, people like you, make him out to be... and if your gonna reply with "OMFG how dare you blah bah blah illuminati blah blah" your either 12 year old uk fan, or just a sad individual. BTW I'm not rich.. if I was then why the fuck would I spend time making this thread when I could count my "cash" with my 'illuminati homies", dumb fuck.
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Pac was not underrated he was a good artist, but he brought DeathRow down cuz of his Ego!
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Infinite
goddman, ur hella confused. ???
real talk :laugh:
like i said, again - i dont kno how good ur mental reception-abilities are, but bottomline I CANT for the life of me understand the circus-activities inside ur skull
READ AGAIN WITH ME, KINDERGARDEN-STYLE 8)
when u are defining mc's worthy of the goat-titles in hiphop - one of the stripes a rapper has to have on his belt - is flow, lyrical wordplay, mic-capabilities etc etc -
there are 4 elements to hiphop - the "master of the crowd"-subject bein one of the more important ones, dat ppl should keep in mind when ranking artists
::)
how the fucc can u get the impression dat im talkin about those 3 subjects (which i underlinded) as hihphop-elements, u crazy muddafucca? ;D
how, why? what's the matter wit u? :laugh: "the master of the crowd"-subject is the element i was talkin about, divided into 3 words for ur thick skull thoroughly.. IT'S SO FUCKIN SIMPLE ;)
I was debatin wit ppl b4 u came in this bitch, and No one xcept you and ur insanity recogized any existing "errors" in dat post. u clearly dont kno what the fucc ur talkin about, you dumb muddfucca you :laugh:
ur a breadcrumb on my breakfast-table, and considerng what a stupid impressin i get of u, i would probly destroy u within a milli-second if i EVER decided to discuss wit u as a grown-up.. ur probably diagnosed wit some mental-A,B,C stuff, and slaughtering u with words, would b like phsycialy raping someone handicaped. but if u really feel like discussing the history of hiphop, go ahead.. open up a new thread in the outbound-connection, and invite me in - and i'll be there.. LOL :D
Tip: Check my previous post-history to get a full understanding on what ur really gettin into *wink, wink*
u haven't been relevant in this thread for a second - all ignorant dumb fuckin bullshit - what are u trying to prove? I thought u were a 2pac-fan, are u supossed to ride for ur hero by debating, OR by tryin to find errors in writin handwrtiting (dat only exists in ur confused head).
obvioulsy ur doin the latter cus u can't provid anythin relevant in words, to back up what u invalidate - you dumb muddafucca you.
but all right, young padawan.. all right
come see, Yoda. come c em
:-*
and now on, to somethin diffrent
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
i can understand the 2pac-love in this thread. especially since we're debating on a westcoast-related forum - but ignorant dumb fuckin idiot-comments from 15-year olds wont b tolerated.
u will be ignored, and if u cant provide anythin relevant wit words in a debate, then u will be ignored - cuz u are a dumb muddafucca. comments like "WHAT?!?!" "WHAT ARE YOU SAYIN" HAHAHA" U CRAZY" WOOOT WOOT" are extremely unnecassary. LOL at some of u small individuals goin at me, like i was bashin or talkin bad about 2pac anywhere in this thread. And LOL at some of u morons, dat brought up Lil Wayne and/or T.I.-names trying to bring a point - like i ever compared Mr Shakur wit 'em to begin with.
And Notice: For the last time, i only said "overrated", not "average", and/or "wack".. try to stay wit me NOW
im a big fan of 2pac, own his whole catalagoue - and there's nothin more to it than that.
im debating over the fact, if he deserved the title "Goat" or not - it's very very silly to get emotional and heated over one opinion. IF I WOULD'VE DISSED HIM RECKLESSLY, i would've understood ur previous rants and lynching.. but i never did.
but then again, i understand the mentality of a 2pac-stan somewhow.
they are xtremely emotional-creatures, and they dont kno no better.
and before anyone decides to jump in and fire up this debate some more, i encourage him/her to read every single page in this thread - to try to understand what i am discussin
l'll even make it easier for u,
here, i quoted myself
i feel like u cant b crowned "THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME" if ur abilities lyricaly and on the microphone can't weigh as much as ur other positive characteristics - dat's what im debatin about
when ur ranking an hiphop-artist, u have to keep the most important thing in mind - the word itself: "Hip Hop" microphone/master of the crowd-skills
UNTOUCHABLE
ur NOT 37 ;D
LAC/Eastside
ur not significant enuff to catch my attention. provide ur posts wit intersesting mater and/or intellingene - and I MIGHT eyeball u.. And if ur goin to "murder" moi, u better bring ur triple-a-game.. trust me, youngsta
weedhead
ur not significant enuff to catch my attention. provide ur posts wit intersesting mater and/or intellingene - and I MIGHT eyeball u..
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Real recognize real and who feels it knows it. People who feel 2pac know that he put his soul into his music in a way that no rapper ever has or ever will.
And the material he was coming out with in his last days was on such an intense spiritual level, that he connected with his true fans in a way that some will never understand; and thats okay because it wasnt for them to understand.
He knew he was about to leave this planet and tracks like "Blasphemy" and "Hold Your Head" were like his last precious words and legacy he wanted to leave for his fans.
Allah (God) put it in his heart to do that, and it flowed naturally from his viens, he had a burning desire to express and he had to get everything out before Allah could take him from this Earth.
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salami bacon to that, my brother. ;D
and we all loved dat nigga pac for dat - we were gettin mad, when we were listening to "hit 'em up", we all felt the girl's pain when listenin to "Brenda's Got a Baby" etc etc
there is a reason why we called 2pac the hiphop-Marvin Gaye..
he could connect wit us, absolutely. dat's a beautiful characteristic as an artist.
but still..
QUOTE
i feel like u cant b crowned "THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME" if ur abilities lyricaly and on the microphone can't weigh as much as ur other positive characteristics - dat's what im debatin about
when ur ranking an hiphop-artist, u have to keep the most important thing in mind - the word itself: "Hip Hop" microphone/master of the crowd-skills[/u]
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salami bacon to that, my brother. ;D
Is this a sample of your vast intelligence you were threatening to drop on me if I responded to you?
and we all loved dat nigga pac for dat - we were gettin mad, when we were listening to "hit 'em up", we all felt the girl's pain when listenin to "Brenda's Got a Baby" etc etc
there is a reason why we called 2pac the hiphop-Marvin Gaye..
he could connect wit us, absolutely. dat's a beautiful characteristic as an artist.
but still..
QUOTE
i feel like u cant b crowned "THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME" if ur abilities lyricaly and on the microphone can't weigh as much as ur other positive characteristics - dat's what im debatin about
when ur ranking an hiphop-artist, u have to keep the most important thing in mind - the word itself: "Hip Hop" microphone/master of the crowd-skills[/u]
Are you trying to say 2pac couldn't rock a show? Don't you know back in his prime that Death Row was so large that if they even tried to do a show that muthufucka would get shot up and torn down!
...so 2pac's shows were few and far between...
In the early days around the time of Doggystyle and Chronic Death Row tried and tried to tour but it was hard to convince concert promoters and venues to hold Death Row concerts because of the threats of violence that might take place at the show.
Now, if your KRS1, sure you can go rock a small arena anytime you want, and it will be all peace and love. But it wasn't until the later 90's that the biggest selling rap artists were finally able to hold successful tours without violence shutting them down. Puffy's No Way Out Tour in 97/98 paved the way and later Jay and DMX were able to hold large scale tours, and then ofcourse Dre's Up and Smoke Tour in 2000.
But in the era when Pac and Death Row were #1 it wasn't possible for them to do many shows at the time.
...so are you saying that somebody like KRS1 was a better performer and that his mic skills were better than Pac and that therefore Pac is just average and somebody like KRS1 is #1? No doubt, KRS1 was and still is a great performer, and he can give a show in any venue on the spot, and he can rock it. That's one of the most important things to him, and he has even said something to the effect that part of being a great rapper is being able to do a show. But you have to understand that 2pac's era was different then the era that KRS1 came up in.
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i wasn't sayin anywhere dat pac couldn't rock a show, silly. NOWHERE
if anythin, supposedly he was a good performer in live-form - as "unotuchable" were sayin earlier (he witnessed some of his shows, apparently).
it's like this, "performing" doesn't have to necessarily be equivalent to "rockin a show". a "performer" can also be a "performer" as a "performer inside the booth" (as in performing/rappin on the mic). u got it twisted, dat's all.
im sure pac was good as a live-act - i dont disagree..
but for the record, if an artist brings a big crowd - dat sure as hell doesn't mean dat the artist istelf is necesarrily any "good" as a performer (like i get the impression dat u're tryin to imply). dat just means, dat the artist's got a big fanbase. the one's dat saw Lil Wayne perform knows he brings a kinda boring show - but dat doesn't stop him from sellin tickets, you see..
and somethin more for the record..
if u are the best at what u do in "live-form", dat sure as hell doesn't mean dat u're "the goat" either.
i feel like ur basicaly just tryin to find irrelevant errors somewhere in my posts, by scrollin through the previous pages in the tread - hoping to find somethin to speak on in a dramatic tone..
salami bacon to that, my brother
there, there. dat was a joke.. dont go all emotional on me now.. *sniff, sniff*
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i wasn't sayin anywhere dat pac couldn't rock a show, silly. NOWHERE
if anythin, supposedly he was a good performer in live-form - as "unotuchable" were sayin earlier (he witnessed some of his shows, apparently).
it's like this, "performing" doesn't have to necessarily be equivalent to "rockin a show". a "performer" can also be a "performer" as a "performer inside the booth" (as in performing/rappin on the mic). u got it twisted, dat's all.
im sure pac was good as a live-act - i dont disagree..
but for the record, if an artist brings a big crowd - dat sure as hell doesn't mean dat the artist istelf is necesarrily any "good" as a performer (like i get the impression dat u're tryin to imply). dat just means, dat the artist's got a big fanbase. the one's dat saw Lil Wayne perform knows he brings a kinda boring show - but dat doesn't stop him from sellin tickets, you see..
and somethin more for the record..
if u are the best at what u do in "live-form", dat sure as hell doesn't mean dat u're "the goat" either.
i feel like ur basicaly just tryin to find irrelevant errors somewhere in my posts, by scrollin through the previous pages in the tread - hoping to find somethin to speak on in a dramatic tone..
Okay. So your saying his skills on the mic were weak? So please, give us an example of how 2pac should of rapped. You understand, 2pac wasn't one of those rappers that did a dozen or so takes of one track and tried to execute each syllable like Eminem was doing on his MMLP record. 2pac would come to the studio high or drunk or just from partying or maybe the mood was set on low with candles in the room and he was bringing people to tears. It was more important that you felt 2pac and that his emotions were raw, rather then him perfecting each syllable like he was Rakim, Canibus, Eminem, or Big L or something.
By the way, if Pac is just average, then that must mean that 49% of the rappers out there are better then him. So you must be able to list me atleast 50 or so names that are better than 2pac. So please, hit me off with just a few of those names to start with.
salami bacon to that, my brother
there, there. dat was a joke.. dont go all emotional on me now.. *sniff, sniff*
It's not that I'm emotional, it's just that I'm still waiting for you to hit me with this great intelligence and wisdom you were speaking about, that would blow me away and put me in my place.
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goddamn, are u startin to get on my nerves. ;D
i never said he was "average" ffs.. like i said, read EVERY single post in this thread, and try to catch up - and get a better impression of what is goin on
i never said Pac was "weak" on the mic.. come on, now. ur really boring
this is what i said - READ AGAIN
i feel like u cant b crowned "THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME" if ur abilities lyricaly and on the microphone can't weigh as much as ur other positive characteristics - dat's what im debatin about
when ur ranking an hiphop-artist, u have to keep the most important thing in mind - the word itself: "Hip Hop" microphone/master of the crowd-skills[/u]
dat doesn't mean dat he's "weak" as in "weak", dat means dat his various positive-characteristics doesn't weigh as much as his skills as an mc.. HE ISN'T AS GOOD AS A RAPPER, AS HE IS WIT OTHER SHIT - therefore, i dont think he deserves his famous title - cuz the skills he posses isn't equivalent wit the most important skill of all
It's not that I'm emotional, it's just that I'm still waiting for you to hit me with this great intelligence and wisdom you were speaking about, that would blow me away and put me in my place.
:D
dat's what im waiting on, salami-brother.. open up a new thread in the outbound-conec, so i can school ur salami-ass ;D u brought it up originaly, so i mean.. let's go! ;)
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So you must be able to list me atleast 50 or so names that are better than 2pac. So please, hit me off with just a few of those names to start with
aight, easy peezy
NOTICE - these niggas are better "rappers", not "artists" - STAY WIT ME NOW ;D
lyrical wordplay, flow and overall capabilites as far as bein a fullfledged-mc
Crooked I
Kool G Rap
Tech N9ne
Chino XL
Big Daddy Kane
Rakim
Redman
50 Cent
Snoop Doggy Dogg
Kurupt
Canibus
DMX
Nas
Jay-Z
Eminem
Biggie Smalls
E-40
Vinnie Paz
WC
etc
etc
etc
etc
BUT, NONE of these niggas posess the same "feeling" as 2pac, maybe.
and i feel dat the Word "feeling" - is NOT somethin dat needs to be excluded when ranking a "Goat"-mc - BUT i also feel like dat critera is not everything dat u should think of, either
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goddamn, are u startin to get on my nerves. ;D
i never said he was "average" ffs.. like i said, read EVERY single post in this thread, and try to catch up - and get a better impression of what is goin on
i never said Pac was "weak" on the mic.. come on, now. ur really boring
this is what i said - READ AGAIN
i feel like u cant b crowned "THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME" if ur abilities lyricaly and on the microphone can't weigh as much as ur other positive characteristics - dat's what im debatin about
when ur ranking an hiphop-artist, u have to keep the most important thing in mind - the word itself: "Hip Hop" microphone/master of the crowd-skills[/u]
dat doesn't mean dat he's "weak" as in "weak", dat means dat his various positive-characteristics doesn't weigh as much as his skills as an mc.. HE ISN'T AS GOOD AS A RAPPER, AS HE IS WIT OTHER SHIT - therefore, i dont think he deserves his famous title - cuz the skills he posses isn't equivalent wit the most important skill of all
Again, that's like saying Michael Jordan wasn't the greatest player ever because he didn't score as many points in a game as Wilt Chamberlain, or because he didn't rebound as well as Dennis Rodman, or didn't shoot 3's as well as Bird, or pass as well as Magic.
But Jordan set the standard. Just like 2pac set the standard in hip-hop.
What you've done is take one criteria, mic skills, and placed it above everything else. I already explained Pac wasn't the type of rapper to do 100 takes of one song to perfect every syllable. It was more important for him to just come raw and emotional, and hit you while he was in the mood. Rather then come back in and redo a song when he wasn't in the mood just so he could get every syllable to hit the snare on time.
But even still.. I get your point, I just think your taking mic skills and making it supreme over everything else, when it's obvious that 2pac is a legend and is the standard bearer. But 2pac himself said in an interview that he didn't think he was the best "rapper (emcee)". But he did say he thought he was the REALEST.
It's not that I'm emotional, it's just that I'm still waiting for you to hit me with this great intelligence and wisdom you were speaking about, that would blow me away and put me in my place.
:D
dat's what im waiting on, salami-brother.. open up a new thread in the outbound-conec, so i can school ur salami-ass ;D u brought it up originaly, so i mean.. let's go! ;)
Okay.. here goes... check the OUtbound section in a couple minutes
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What you've done is take one criteria, mic skills, and placed it above everything else.
dat's exactly what i've done - it doesn't eliminate everything else - but it sure as hell doesn't grant him the famous "Goat"-title either
it's like givin the world's most beautiful woman, her "universe"-title. her face is the most incredible thing u've ever seen - but her body is.. ughh..
u get the picture - IT RUINS THE OVERALL FEELING
8)
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he was the REALEST.
dat's a bullshit word, which isn't relevant when debating (everythin is an indivudal opinion when speakin about "the realest" mc. no factual diagrams)
BU if we HAVE to give dat title to someone - dat would have to be either Scarface or Beans
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he was the REALEST.
dat's a bullshit word, which isn't relevant when debating (everythin is an indivudal opinion when speakin about "the realest" mc. no factual diagrams)
BU if we HAVE to give dat title to someone - dat would have to be either Scarface or Beans
lmao yeap u definetly an east coast geek & retarted as well, u have no business in a westcoast forum kid & i can show you im 37 if you like ;)....you got too much to prove & so far you haven't accomplished anything but look stupid....go on homie go on haha...i can't debate with retards it's just uncivilized.... :D
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you are not 37 - and if u are, then ur mama must've dropped u on the floor as an infant - cus u sure as hell isn't sendin out grown-up vibes - 15 year olds has accomplished more in this debate than u, so u must forgive me - if my impression of u is dat ur NOT older than 12..
my music-collection is predominanlty westcoast, and what i feel about 2pac the asrtist doesn't prove a damn thing about my music tastebuds - U dumb muddafucca u.
- dont be judgemental - dats a REALLy bad look for intelligence..
;D
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you are not 37 - and if u are, then ur mama must've dropped u on the floor as an infant - cus u sure as hell isn't sendin out grown-up vibes - 15 year olds has accomplished more in this debate than u, so u must forgive me - if my impression of u is dat ur NOT older 12..
my music-collection is predominanlty westcoast, and what i feel about 2pac the asrtist doesn't prove a damn thing about my music tastebuds - U dumb muddafucca u.
- dont be judgemental - dats a REALLy bad look for intelligence..
;D
awww u mad ;) & i can act as a kid in here fool cause this aint real life in here homie i don't gotta prove anything in here but i will school u regardless kiddie...my mama had good grip so i was never dropped in the floor...
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nope, im amused.
i even gave u a + in karma..
ur funny the dumb and retarded-way
a 37-year old nigga talkin down on eastcoast-music - but having a picture of Crook in his signature ROFL
my mama had good grip so i was never dropped in the floor...
oh, she did huh?
:laugh:
:laugh:
ROFL
i dont even think she dropped u - she probly threw u on the ground on purpose
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This shit is gettin' too off the topic, i'm lockin this bitch.
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what made tupac dope was his lyric's ...his flow wasn't that great but his lyric's were had hitting, these days a lot of rappers don't got lyric's the got hot beats and a cool flow but if you read there lyrics its all garbage.. none of it makes any sense