West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Real American on March 22, 2010, 05:02:15 PM
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I am suprised no one else started a thread about this.
This truly is a sad day for America.........
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Inform me about what passed.
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Inform me about what passed.
"Health care for all." Both bills have outlined strategies to include all Americans in some form of a health insurance plan - whether Medicaid, Medicare, the private or the public/community option.
Ban the pre-existing condition clause for all health insurance companies, including those in the private option. The hope is that as more young and healthy Americans have insurance and pay their premiums, that money will offset the costs of taking care of the sicker Americans.
All health insurance plans will cover hospitalizations, outpatient hospital and clinic care, physician fees, equipment, prescription drugs, rehabilitation, maternity care, child care, preventive care, mental health, and marriage and family therapy. The addition of coverage for mental health and counseling is an added benefit not often covered currently.
No lifetime or annual limits on what insurance companies will cover.
Annual out-of-pocket expenses would be no more than $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family - including co-payments and all additional medical costs. All preventive care would be excluded from charging co-payments.
Reimbursements will change for doctors to focus on patient outcomes, health disparities, and avoiding hospital admissions. The focus will shift to preventive care and keeping Americans healthier in order to avoid aggressive and costly medical treatment down the line.
The smallest employers will have the option to enroll employees into the subsidized health insurance options. Employees will also have the option to enroll themselves.
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I am suprised no one else started a thread about this.
This truly is a sad day for America.........
How so?
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I am suprised no one else started a thread about this.
This truly is a sad day for America.........
in 5 years you're gonna be like "health care is the shit"
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passing this health care bill does not increase the number of resources available in any way whatsoever, it just splits the pie differently. and it goes without saying that 'the people' will not be getting a larger piece of this pie, regardless of how it may look on the surface.
in five years america is gonna be right in the middle of a systemic collapse. first comes the currency crisis.
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lol does anyone even know wtf it covers??? Seriously.....The thought its self retain a huge controversy, but did anyone actually see what exactly it covers??? I mean my dad has cancer and cali's free system doesn't support Cancer treatment. So just how much will this coverage give people??? Basic??? (Probably) Advance??? (Not Likely) Premium??? (Very Unlikely). I mean what's the point of giving people a health package if it can't cover jackshit, and only gives Prescription companies/doctors/companies more tax breaks. Let's just wait and see though.... I'd hate to see this the way of Canada. For those don't know Canada health care is bad in some areas, it's free, but it takes months sometimes to see a Doctor, and then see the Follow up. Sometimes the results are out of date by as much as 6 months before treatment can even begin, which its self is sometimes taking another month.
This health Care bill will be interesting to see unfold.
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In Australia, where I come from, health care is free.
There is free universal hospital treatment and subsidized out-of-hospital medical treatment.
There is also the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme that heavily subsidizes prescription medications.
So basically, I could go see a doctor right now for free. Call and book an appointment for today and ask the doc about the speck on my shaft or something...
OF course the sicker you are and the more everything you need eventually you will have to start paying something. So it still makes sense to have private health insurance in case you get really fucked up.
I love the government. I get $740 a month to go to university (and learn the ways of the Leviathan). I get $280 a month rent assistance. I got a healthcare card I dont need (thankfully).
I also got a job and I pay taxes, I cant remember how much they ended up taxing me after I got my last tax-return but I remember it was nothing to get all revolutionary about.
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^^^^^^^
(http://betterpropaganda.com/images/artwork/Leviathan_Crebain_Split-Leviathan_480.jpg)
Shouts
lol does anyone even know wtf it covers???
See my post.
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Cheers J Baphomet. ;D
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However you are missing the point to, this will open the stage for a new compulsory tax at a time where economics say this is the worst recession for 80 years and will get worse, so in other words, this is going to be the greatest ever depression. People will use emotive reasoning for why this is good and I understand the viewpoint I genuinely do but also understand, that in reality millions and millions more illegal immigrants are coming in, placing an even greater strain on resources, taxes will have to subsidise them to. The health service will worsen and so there will be an emphasis on bigger tax rises and furthermore, this puts the government in direct control of health care. Now what we have already seen here in England is it becoming one of those out in the open practices where do not resuscitate instructions have been given when it comes to the elderly. So through the back door we are seeing euthanisation creep in and with this, will come new directives, new budgets, new can do's and can't and what's more, new targets which could actually make the situation worse, despite the fact that people are being forced to pay.
We have already heard that Obama has met with representatives of the pharma oligopoly to reassure them it was business as usual, in other words despite this potential new found buying power, they would not use it to a) get big discounts or b) look for alternative products to the main stays. More fundamentally, it's something like 30% of americans are on 3 psychotrophics a day which only increases their dependancy, zombifies their emotional state, no doubt increases depression and leaves them feeling helpless, so it plays right into the hands of this system. What is wrong with health as a whole is that the emphasis seems to always be placed on treating the symptoms and not the problem.
So as everything that third generation, fourth generation americans have and had the promise of having turns to shit, they get to pop some more pills and be sedated. In terms of the underlying TNT which everyone is son, America is already something like 800 trillion in debt including current debts and unfunded liabilities and in terms of loss of manufacturing production etc, so this system, this wonderful new health care system is going to fall apart by design, it has to because there is nothing to maintain it. Yeah sure you can mug the middle class for everything they have, but what about when they have nothing more to give?
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talking of the middle class having nothing left to give, here is an excellent piece on debt productivity/saturation from yesterday:
http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2010/03/most-important-chart-of-century.html
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I am suprised no one else started a thread about this.
This truly is a sad day for America.........
in 5 years you're gonna be like "health care is the shit"
But in 25 to 50 years you're gonna be saying "health care is shit". I don't know about you but I'd rather be in debt my whole life rather than dead because of lower quality care, rushed misdiagnosis, and less money to pay for better technologies.
The US does not have the money to pay for this even if they could run it right, which no one can. I predict that China will overtake the US as the World power by the end of our life time, and by te end of our grand children's lifetime the US will be a 2nd world country.
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I am suprised no one else started a thread about this.
This truly is a sad day for America.........
in 5 years you're gonna be like "health care is the shit"
But in 25 to 50 years you're gonna be saying "health care is shit". I don't know about you but I'd rather be in debt my whole life rather than dead because of lower quality care, rushed misdiagnosis, and less money to pay for better technologies.
The US does not have the money to pay for this even if they could run it right, which no one can. I predict that China will overtake the US as the World power by the end of our life time, and by te end of our grand children's lifetime the US will be a 2nd world country.
you won't need to wait until the end of your life time. give it a decade and the world will be a very different place, barring any crazy wars or disasters...
socialised healthcare can work and does work in some places, but these are places with crazy income taxes (wealthier european nations) so it ultimately comes at a high expense. at least it works though.
america on the other hand is already internally corrupted to the core so trying to reform anything for the better is kind of futile. thing is even the private healthcare system could be run more efficiently if insurance was what it said on the tin and it wasn't such a huge government subsidized market. you got people claiming for everything, whereas it should just be for the real bad shit and normal healthcare on a pay as you go basis.
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I am suprised no one else started a thread about this.
This truly is a sad day for America.........
in 5 years you're gonna be like "health care is the shit"
But in 25 to 50 years you're gonna be saying "health care is shit". I don't know about you but I'd rather be in debt my whole life rather than dead because of lower quality care, rushed misdiagnosis, and less money to pay for better technologies.
The US does not have the money to pay for this even if they could run it right, which no one can. I predict that China will overtake the US as the World power by the end of our life time, and by te end of our grand children's lifetime the US will be a 2nd world country.
you won't need to wait until the end of your life time. give it a decade and the world will be a very different place, barring any crazy wars or disasters...
socialised healthcare can work and does work in some places, but these are places with crazy income taxes (wealthier european nations) so it ultimately comes at a high expense. at least it works though.
america on the other hand is already internally corrupted to the core so trying to reform anything for the better is kind of futile. thing is even the private healthcare system could be run more efficiently if insurance was what it said on the tin and it wasn't such a huge government subsidized market. you got people claiming for everything, whereas it should just be for the real bad shit and normal healthcare on a pay as you go basis.
All those places that it "works" are bankrupt to shit and borrowing money from countries that treat their citizens like servants. When the US falls Europe will too.
I just wonder if the Chinese will learn from our mistakes and take even more from their successes in Hong Kong. I think China knows it has to be like Hong Kong was if it wants to create a real first world Super Power and Empire and I think the major steps will be taken. They are communist now just like the West was Monarchist for all those centuries, but soon they'll come to true democratic capitalism and hopefully they'll do it better than the US did.
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The Public Option didn't even pass. Why are people acting like if Universal Health Care just passed? If U.S. is going to fail because of Health Insurance, then we were well on our way to fail because the real problem was there and the real problem continues to be there.
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I am suprised no one else started a thread about this.
This truly is a sad day for America.........
why? is the sky falling again?
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healthcare IS shit, i dont know how this is WORSE...its either the same or BETTER than what we have now. Republicans are just bunch of whiny little kids who are gonna oppose everything obama says until he's out of office, not cuz it makes sense but because they dont like him cuz of his color. They dont like america being nice to other races, they want white supremacy.
in the end, this country is so screwed that it doesnt matter what bill passes...what they need to fix is the mortgage crisis cuz that has put a major halt in everything...if they just accept the truth and give up these loans, start over with lower priced homes and let business pick up, they'll make their money back and more. Whats the point of holding on to a foreclosed home for years cuz u dont wanna sell it for $100k less when u just lost money by holding on to it all these years??
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I am suprised no one else started a thread about this.
This truly is a sad day for America.........
in 5 years you're gonna be like "health care is the shit"
But in 25 to 50 years you're gonna be saying "health care is shit". I don't know about you but I'd rather be in debt my whole life rather than dead because of lower quality care, rushed misdiagnosis, and less money to pay for better technologies.
The US does not have the money to pay for this even if they could run it right, which no one can. I predict that China will overtake the US as the World power by the end of our life time, and by te end of our grand children's lifetime the US will be a 2nd world country.
you won't need to wait until the end of your life time. give it a decade and the world will be a very different place, barring any crazy wars or disasters...
socialised healthcare can work and does work in some places, but these are places with crazy income taxes (wealthier european nations) so it ultimately comes at a high expense. at least it works though.
america on the other hand is already internally corrupted to the core so trying to reform anything for the better is kind of futile. thing is even the private healthcare system could be run more efficiently if insurance was what it said on the tin and it wasn't such a huge government subsidized market. you got people claiming for everything, whereas it should just be for the real bad shit and normal healthcare on a pay as you go basis.
All those places that it "works" are bankrupt to shit and borrowing money from countries that treat their citizens like servants. When the US falls Europe will too.
I just wonder if the Chinese will learn from our mistakes and take even more from their successes in Hong Kong. I think China knows it has to be like Hong Kong was if it wants to create a real first world Super Power and Empire and I think the major steps will be taken. They are communist now just like the West was Monarchist for all those centuries, but soon they'll come to true democratic capitalism and hopefully they'll do it better than the US did.
yeah, not all of europe though. the wealthier nations run a big surplus, have far less debt and most importantly, have plentiful resources. sure they get hurt when the shit hits the fan in all the poor and overextended countries, but they don't collapse or suffer as badly. places like norway, sweden, germany, switzerland, france, etc.
bit like the america-china balance of trade. in the long run china won't collapse, they'll take a big hit and need to readjust, but they're very busy preparing for that day now, whereas america is not.
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Goddamnit its a shame....I don't want the US to fuck out and elano...you guys paint a depressing picture of the US future, but theres some good analysis here so respect all around.
Sure China is growing, but don't forget their government are so uptight...that is going to hold them back, keep companies from expanding there..
The US is still the world's largest economy (so says the CIA factbook)...its still dwarfes China...China would have to DOUBLE its economy to overtake the US. The US economy still dwarfs the fuck out of any country's economy. Only the EU (as a collective of many many countries) is bigger than the US.
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I think this health care bullshit was purely a distraction from real issues going on. Gave it crazy media hype.
The audit the fed bill was infintesmally more important than this bullshit. And I could give you a lot more examples than that.
And yes this leans toward socialism but if u think this type of shit hasn't been going on for years then u clearly haven't been paying attention.
I don't think anyone should be deprived health care but I don't want the scum running the show or else its nothing more than a BS scam to me.
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Goddamnit its a shame....I don't want the US to fuck out and elano...you guys paint a depressing picture of the US future, but theres some good analysis here so respect all around.
Sure China is growing, but don't forget their government are so uptight...that is going to hold them back, keep companies from expanding there..
The US is still the world's largest economy (so says the CIA factbook)...its still dwarfes China...China would have to DOUBLE its economy to overtake the US. The US economy still dwarfs the fuck out of any country's economy. Only the EU (as a collective of many many countries) is bigger than the US.
the people on this board are mainly libertarians who don't like the direction of the US, and feel that this will bring the US down. There will be forces that are against our freedoms and that we are suppose to agree to a national health care system so that we will eventually die off and there will be less people for the Illuminati to control.
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Watch and be educated my fine Aussie friend on the ways of the Illuminati
http://www.youtube.com/v/eAaQNACwaLw&hl=en_US&fs=1&
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Well being as how currently whenever someone without healthcare gets really fucked up, they go to the hospital where they are treated regardless of their ability to pay. In those cases which are millions of dollars worth daily, the federal government pays (taxpayer). So now it's just another name for the same ol song and dance. And if Obama thinks that healthcare and pharma companies are going to pass any cost savings on to us , he is high. You cannot tax/charge hospital or pharma company....they will only pass those charges on to the users. But any profits, they will keep.
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But any profits, they will keep.
Which is the main problem of health care before and after the bill. The good thing is that any type of success, you'll be able to slowly change things.
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and m dogg stop trolling with the alex jones nonsense, we know you don't really agree with anything strongly against the status quo.
and we know alex jones makes wild speculations and doesn't really understand bigger picture or any solutions beyond 'conspiracies' and 'rising up'. but you can come to some similar conclusions regarding the future just by having a logical overview being pragamatic about the physical world and allocation of resources.
to be pro-establishment at this point in time is simply to be deluded or in denial. the very idea of things somehow righting themselves from anything resembling the current political/monetary system is fairy tales. it'll become unglued long before then...
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Yeah that was my point, that this is a distraction because it implements a system which can't be sustained but while the last taxes are being taken, they can portray this as something wonderful, while on the ground people more and more people will get increasingly poorer and then health will suffer, so then there will need to be bigger tax rises, more government intervention and more decisions on who lives and who dies. I hate to paint it in those stark terms because my life was saved courtesy of the social health system here and I wouldn't disagree that there are a lot of good caring people in the health service but the system itself is an altogether much more dangerous proposition.
However I guess if I was being absolutely pragmatic, I would say this is just another piece being picked off an already rotting carcass. I am not a libertarian per sa, I am conflicted somewhat because both alternatives being offered are much the same, the banks did all this and the banks are being given complete control and so this isn't changing. In fact I am not even going to say this is the beginning of the end, the demise is already well under way.
You don't need to paint it in the loud beligerent tones of alex jones or anyone else for that matter, to realise that things are completely fucked up. What would be interesting to note is who was it that lobbied for this? I think this notion that this is civilian servants (governments) vs big corporations (insurance companies) is more about romanticism and less about reality.
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Goddamnit its a shame....I don't want the US to fuck out and elano...you guys paint a depressing picture of the US future, but theres some good analysis here so respect all around.
Sure China is growing, but don't forget their government are so uptight...that is going to hold them back, keep companies from expanding there..
The US is still the world's largest economy (so says the CIA factbook)...its still dwarfes China...China would have to DOUBLE its economy to overtake the US. The US economy still dwarfs the fuck out of any country's economy. Only the EU (as a collective of many many countries) is bigger than the US.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article6996208.ece within about a decade at current rates, China will have overtaken America. Perhaps it will take a few more years, or even a few less years, it depends how rapidly the U.S decline is. What we know is that conservatively China has a surplus of over a trillion and America well who really knows the true debt figure. The U.S is a great innovator that is true, but it's the U.S companies who are based in China who are the juggernauts. You are right it is a very depressing picture, but then again under this current system there is nothing to feel jubilant or optimistic about, they giveth, then they taketh away.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/kk_1_SCEQKE
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Kucinich in principle wants more government involvement of the health care industry. He actually settled for less.
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So from the video, it sounds very much to me like this whole thing has been smoke and mirrors which is what I thought might be the case. The insurance companies I am guessing were the ones who drew up this legislation and then the real theatre has begun as this has been masqueraded as insurance companies vs the people when as it shows, this will benefit the insurance companies, not hamper them.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/QnuQV8Od1Ns
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Damn....I am a huge Peter Schiff fan as well!!!
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I like Schiff he understates things (not in a negative sense) which gives him more mainstream accessibility but is always very rational and informative in his delivery of information.
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Damn....I am a huge Peter Schiff fan as well!!!
But Peter Schiff is a an anti-war politician. How can you support him?
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Damn....I am a huge Peter Schiff fan as well!!!
But Peter Schiff is a an anti-war politician. How can you support him?
Well I would hope the guy's perspective is now starting to widen a bit and from his comments about the republicans being the lesser of two evils, then it would seem like his paradigm is shifting.
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:pirate:
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I'm still a Kucinich supporter, and I doubt he'll get voted out. PROPS TO HIM.
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Real American might have found some friends. They are all on the same side, except for the war. Well, with Obama running the war, I'm waiting on Real American to flip and say we need to pull out. All in due time.
Side note, why is the US the only developed country with a health care debate. In other developed countries, where single payer is the rule of the land, they are not having these types of debates? Are the other masses just sheep?
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I win this debate... ;)