West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Sikotic™ on May 03, 2010, 03:46:26 PM
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Like undeniable concrete proof that fact does not exist.
What do you think would happen to our world?
Would believers ignore it?
Would chaos occur worldwide?
Would people turn to some other alternative for strength?
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God is testing them with this proof, so it will be the same thing. And they will try to find some reasoning behind this proof with Bible scriptures.
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Allot of believers will ignore it, some weak minded believers will kill themselves.
But as time goes on religion will disappear from earth completely.
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Older folks would not believe the proof, while younger people might be swayed. People die happily all the time defending their beliefs. Those fools can't believe that they could possible have been tricked.
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they'd ignore it until religious spin doctors related it to God's will, and then they'd start speaking on it in droves, furthering their self importance.
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God is testing them with this proof, so it will be the same thing.
Yup. Thats the religious way of convincing yourself that everything god does is good.
"My mom was run over by a steam roller and accidentally got served as tortillas at a taco stand in Tijuana!!"
"God is just testing you my son"
lol bullshit
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the other question would be what if they never find the missing link and then they find evidence that man was created and it was not evolution??
how would the atheists react?? an interessting question too, huh?
just wonderin ;D
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the other question would be what if they never find the missing link and then they find evidence that man was created and it was not evolution??
how would the atheists react?? an interessting question too, huh?
just wonderin ;D
LOL... I love it
I hate how people are like, it's creation, not evolution. Even Christians believe in evolution. When will this argument die.
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the other question would be what if they never find the missing link and then they find evidence that man was created and it was not evolution??
how would the atheists react?? an interessting question too, huh?
just wonderin ;D
Well that would be a stupid question since things like that have already been found. Now if they were proven to be made up or fake, then you'd have something.
I was not trying to turn this into an evolution vs. creation discussion by the way. That can and probably will be argued about until we finally wipe ourselves off the planet. The idea was more towards trying to see the strength of a believer's faith.
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the other question would be what if they never find the missing link and then they find evidence that man was created and it was not evolution??
how would the atheists react?? an interessting question too, huh?
just wonderin ;D
If there was more evidence for the presence of a god then for the absence I'd become a deist.
Atheists don't rely on faith but on facts, if the there were solid facts saying there is a god then every atheists would convert immediately
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Like undeniable concrete proof that fact does not exist.
What do you think would happen to our world?
Would believers ignore it?
Would chaos occur worldwide?
Would people turn to some other alternative for strength?
Well first you would have to define what God is, for it to be disproved. If you mean a white bearded man in the clouds, or a man who lived in Jerusalam 2,000 years ago and died on the cross, and then came back to life, walked on water, healed the sick with his hands.... well all that stuff has pretty much already been disproved.
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Like ikke said, athiests usually rely on facts. However, even though they use strong evidence to not believe in God, what can you throw out there to prove that God doesn't exist.
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Like ikke said, athiests usually rely on facts. However, even though they use strong evidence to not believe in God, what can you throw out there to prove that God doesn't exist.
I don't have to prove anything. It's like the same logic as not believing there's an invisible bunny rabbit hopping around my room right now.
That said, ikke is completely correct. If there were any facts or evidence at all, even enough to base a theory on, then atheists would all convert. Geez, who wouldn't want to believe there's an all-powerful being who loves and cares about you?
I'm not an atheist by the way. I'm an "I don't know shit about how the universe was created and for sure you ignorant fucks know even less than I do"
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the other question would be what if they never find the missing link and then they find evidence that man was created and it was not evolution??
how would the atheists react?? an interessting question too, huh?
just wonderin ;D
LOL... I love it
I hate how people are like, it's creation, not evolution. Even Christians believe in evolution. When will this argument die.
i dont deny that animals changed over the past thousand years..
but i dont belive that we humans were the at the end, i dont belive that our ancestors were monkeys
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the other question would be what if they never find the missing link and then they find evidence that man was created and it was not evolution??
how would the atheists react?? an interessting question too, huh?
just wonderin ;D
LOL... I love it
I hate how people are like, it's creation, not evolution. Even Christians believe in evolution. When will this argument die.
i dont deny that animals changed over the past thousand years..
but i dont belive that we humans were the at the end, i dont belive that our ancestors were monkeys
We have the same ancestors as monkeys, monkeys aren't our ancestors.
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the other question would be what if they never find the missing link and then they find evidence that man was created and it was not evolution??
how would the atheists react?? an interessting question too, huh?
just wonderin ;D
LOL... I love it
I hate how people are like, it's creation, not evolution. Even Christians believe in evolution. When will this argument die.
i dont deny that animals changed over the past thousand years..
but i dont belive that we humans were the at the end, i dont belive that our ancestors were monkeys
We have the same ancestors as monkeys, monkeys aren't our ancestors.
yeah i know, i dont belive that
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the other question would be what if they never find the missing link and then they find evidence that man was created and it was not evolution??
how would the atheists react?? an interessting question too, huh?
just wonderin ;D
LOL... I love it
I hate how people are like, it's creation, not evolution. Even Christians believe in evolution. When will this argument die.
i dont deny that animals changed over the past thousand years..
but i dont belive that we humans were the at the end, i dont belive that our ancestors were monkeys
We have the same ancestors as monkeys, monkeys aren't our ancestors.
yeah i know, i dont belive that
This proves
God is testing them with this proof, so it will be the same thing.
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dont be mad cause i dont belive in this ..
(http://caudillwebsolutions.com/ponderings/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/atheism.png)
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^
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that's basically what religion tells you, except instead of things happening by themselves, a magic man willed them into existence.
On a related note, I've always wondered why religious people desperately need "someone" to have created the universe, yet they have zero interest in explaining what created that someone. Why is a god even needed when its just an extra step? Just remove god out of the chain and think of the universe as your god, and you'll come up with the exact same result, minus all the magic and stories.
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dont be mad cause i dont belive in this ..
(http://caudillwebsolutions.com/ponderings/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/atheism.png)
More probable then the religious equivalent
Religious people often think that the universe working perfectly is proof of a god, but the fact is that this couldn't have happened if it didn't work the way it did.
Pre-Big-Bang History is hard to determine but the leading theory right now is that we live in a multi-verse, a higher plain of existence consisting of an infinite amount of universes.
This leads people to think that the thing that triggered the big bang was 2 other universes collapsing in each other and creating our universe.
Allot of these universes probably contain nothing.
Another theory is that - just like stars- the universe will implode at the end of it's lifetime. The force of this implosion could've easily created the big bang.
In an Einsteinian sense you could see the universe as God.
There is nothing is incorrect as well, when this universe started to be there was hydrogen & helium. These gasses were pulled together by gravity to create stars.
The stars started burning these elements creating heavier & heavier elements, creating the periodic table.
These heavier elements were later shot into the universe when the star imploded.
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dont be mad cause i dont belive in this ..
(http://caudillwebsolutions.com/ponderings/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/atheism.png)
More probable then the religious equivalent
Religious people often think that the universe working perfectly is proof of a god, but the fact is that this couldn't have happened if it didn't work the way it did.
Pre-Big-Bang History is hard to determine but the leading theory right now is that we live in a multi-verse, a higher plain of existence consisting of an infinite amount of universes.
This leads people to think that the thing that triggered the big bang was 2 other universes collapsing in each other and creating our universe.
Allot of these universes probably contain nothing.
Another theory is that - just like stars- the universe will implode at the end of it's lifetime. The force of this implosion could've easily created the big bang.
In an Einsteinian sense you could see the universe as God.
There is nothing is incorrect as well, when this universe started to be there was hydrogen & helium. These gasses were pulled together by gravity to create stars.
The stars started burning these elements creating heavier & heavier elements, creating the periodic table.
These heavier elements were later shot into the universe when the star imploded.
That's the thing though, these theories neglect to answer the burning question of where did “matter and energy”come from? Scientists have come up with all of these theories as to how our universe might have came into existence, but can never explain this, they can claim that our universe originates from other universes or helium and hydrogen but scientists know that there had to be a beginning and that the first law of thermodynamics states that matter/energy can not be created or destroyed. I mean I believe in God and by God I don't mean some old grandpa in the clouds that is often depicted in cartoons but a supreme being/force far beyond our comprehension. And that is the main reason why a lot of people believe in God, I mean that is the cornerstone of many belief systems; in the beginning was God and God created the heaven and the earth, science can only attempt to show us how this might have happend.
which goes back to the original question, I don't think that it is even possible to disprove God's existence, whether God has been disproved is subjective i mean how maybe if the question was what do you think would happen if everyone one day just woke up and stopped believing in God? To that I would say I believe there would be chaos, especially in the other parts of the world who's government/economy or peace between one another are based on religious doctrine. just my opinion.
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The title of the thread is quite funny.
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The title of the thread is quite funny.
indeed. i'm not advocating any particular flavour of 'god', but the idea of us proving or disproving anything like that with our current level of science. the idea of evidence runs contrary the concept in the first place.
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That's the thing though, these theories neglect to answer the burning question of where did “matter and energy”come from? Scientists have come up with all of these theories as to how our universe might have came into existence, but can never explain this, they can claim that our universe originates from other universes or helium and hydrogen but scientists know that there had to be a beginning and that the first law of thermodynamics states that matter/energy can not be created or destroyed. I mean I believe in God and by God I don't mean some old grandpa in the clouds that is often depicted in cartoons but a supreme being/force far beyond our comprehension. And that is the main reason why a lot of people believe in God, I mean that is the cornerstone of many belief systems; in the beginning was God and God created the heaven and the earth, science can only attempt to show us how this might have happend.
which goes back to the original question, I don't think that it is even possible to disprove God's existence, whether God has been disproved is subjective i mean how maybe if the question was what do you think would happen if everyone one day just woke up and stopped believing in God? To that I would say I believe there would be chaos, especially in the other parts of the world who's government/economy or peace between one another are based on religious doctrine. just my opinion.
What you call "God" atheists like myself believe in to.
We just don't see it as something beyond our comprehension or even something supernatural.
You seem to be believing in something like a metaphorical God (also known as Einsteinian), which isn't really a "God" but a name for all the forces that control the universe.
You think they aren't comprehensible but what if it is?
That's what science is trying to do, trying to understand "God."
Even if you are right - and we will never understand the universe - you have to at least try.
If we just find out a little bit about how the universe works, it's time well spend.
Knowledge Reigns Supreme
I believe in the Einsteinian "God" but call myself an atheist because it's not a real "God."
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That's the thing though, these theories neglect to answer the burning question of where did “matter and energy”come from? Scientists have come up with all of these theories as to how our universe might have came into existence, but can never explain this, they can claim that our universe originates from other universes or helium and hydrogen but scientists know that there had to be a beginning and that the first law of thermodynamics states that matter/energy can not be created or destroyed. I mean I believe in God and by God I don't mean some old grandpa in the clouds that is often depicted in cartoons but a supreme being/force far beyond our comprehension. And that is the main reason why a lot of people believe in God, I mean that is the cornerstone of many belief systems; in the beginning was God and God created the heaven and the earth, science can only attempt to show us how this might have happend.
which goes back to the original question, I don't think that it is even possible to disprove God's existence, whether God has been disproved is subjective i mean how maybe if the question was what do you think would happen if everyone one day just woke up and stopped believing in God? To that I would say I believe there would be chaos, especially in the other parts of the world who's government/economy or peace between one another are based on religious doctrine. just my opinion.
Our society and technology hasn't advanced to the point where we can explain/prove everything that happens in the universe yet. But please tell me how it makes sense to construct a supernatural deity, on the basis of nothing, just because you can't explain something.
Think about all the people in history who believed in witchcraft and magic because they didn't know how to explain everything that happened. And now we laugh at those idiots because they were ignorant. What makes religion any smarter of a conclusion? It's sad how though we consider ourselves smarter than our ancestors, we use the exact same logic to explain things we don't know for sure.
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You seem to be believing in something like a metaphorical God (also known as Einsteinian), which isn't really a "God" but a name for all the forces that control the universe.
No offense but i think you understood me, your comment made me sound like a pantheist which i am not nor do i believe in the einsteinian God. i believe in a God that is seperate from the universe and the laws/forces that govern it. i believe in a God that created those forces, a God that created: time, matter and energy not a physical entity but a transcendent, omniscient being, beyond what our minds can fathom.
Our society and technology hasn't advanced to the point where we can explain/prove everything that happens in the universe yet. But please tell me how it makes sense to construct a supernatural deity, on the basis of nothing, just because you can't explain something.
Think about all the people in history who believed in witchcraft and magic because they didn't know how to explain everything that happened. And now we laugh at those idiots because they were ignorant. What makes religion any smarter of a conclusion? It's sad how though we consider ourselves smarter than our ancestors, we use the exact same logic to explain things we don't know for sure.
can't you use that same argument for many atheists though? because even though very little (i think about 4%) is known about the universe and how it was formed many are convinced that it couldnt possibly be God that created it and also i didnt say the beleif in God comes from the fact that people can not explain things in the universe. what i meant was that peopole believe in God because they see and know that this all had to come from somewhere and that even science backs this up by showing that matter and energy at some point must have come into existence somehow (first law of thermodynamics) and since matter/energy can not be created from matter, there must be a creator.
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Our society and technology hasn't advanced to the point where we can explain/prove everything that happens in the universe yet. But please tell me how it makes sense to construct a supernatural deity, on the basis of nothing, just because you can't explain something.
Think about all the people in history who believed in witchcraft and magic because they didn't know how to explain everything that happened. And now we laugh at those idiots because they were ignorant. What makes religion any smarter of a conclusion? It's sad how though we consider ourselves smarter than our ancestors, we use the exact same logic to explain things we don't know for sure.
can't you use that same argument for many atheists though? because even though very little (i think about 4%) is known about the universe and how it was formed many are convinced that it couldnt possibly be God that created it and also i didnt say the beleif in God comes from the fact that people can not explain things in the universe. what i meant was that peopole believe in God because they see and know that this all had to come from somewhere and that even science backs this up by showing that matter and energy at some point must have come into existence somehow (first law of thermodynamics) and since matter/energy can not be created from matter, there must be a creator.
What? How so? Atheists don't come up with a magical deity to explain things. They admit they don't know the universe was created and they use science and what they know of reality to come up with the most plausible theory.
Why does there need to be a creator? Where would this creator come from? If you truly believe that the universe needed to be "created", then what created this "creator"? Adding a god doesn't actually answer any questions, it just transfers all the questions about how the universe was created to a magical deity and now instead you ask yourself what created this god.
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dont be mad cause i dont belive in this ..
(http://caudillwebsolutions.com/ponderings/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/atheism.png)
Do you believe in this?
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/pinkzepplin/Motivational%20Posters/1195076570489.jpg)
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You seem to be believing in something like a metaphorical God (also known as Einsteinian), which isn't really a "God" but a name for all the forces that control the universe.
No offense but i think you understood me, your comment made me sound like a pantheist which i am not nor do i believe in the einsteinian God. i believe in a God that is seperate from the universe and the laws/forces that govern it. i believe in a God that created those forces, a God that created: time, matter and energy not a physical entity but a transcendent, omniscient being, beyond what our minds can fathom.
Like I said, Atheists & Scientists don't see these forces as something separate or something that we can't comprehend (yet).
We try to understand these things and even if it is beyond our comprehension we are less ignorant then if we didn't try it at all.
So the difference isn't that big.
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I believe there is a logical reasoning for everything, but there's a lot of logic that we don't have the technology or capabilities to figure out yet. I will never get why people have to turn to magic just because they don't understand something. It's the exact same reasoning as those who believe in witchcraft. As a matter of fact, the basis of religious belief was invented by those same neanderthals who came up with witchcraft, human-sacrifice and all that other stuff we now regard as bullshit.
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dont be mad cause i dont belive in this ..
(http://caudillwebsolutions.com/ponderings/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/atheism.png)
Do you believe in this?
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/pinkzepplin/Motivational%20Posters/1195076570489.jpg)
no, i don´t.
i´m muslim
what i realised is, that many people i know, call them self atheists. when i start debating with them you will find out, that many of them are not against god, but against the church. they always come up with the same arguments like, "i dont belive in an old man sitting on a cloud" "religion is business, they just want my money" religion is against science" and on and on
fine!
nice arguments against christianity and the church! but not against my religion..
basically people dont belive in "god" anymore beacuse the chruch and medie etc F++++ up the image of god.. most people say, i don´t belive in god BUT i belive there is somthing bigger, there is power which controll things.. well, i belive that too and i call this power A L L A H.
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dont be mad cause i dont belive in this ..
(http://caudillwebsolutions.com/ponderings/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/atheism.png)
Do you believe in this?
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/pinkzepplin/Motivational%20Posters/1195076570489.jpg)
no, i don´t.
i´m muslim
what i realised is, that many people i know, call them self atheists. when i start debating with them you will find out, that many of them are not against god, but against the church. they always come up with the same arguments like, "i dont belive in an old man sitting on a cloud" "religion is business, they just want my money" religion is against science" and on and on
fine!
nice arguments against christianity and the church! but not against my religion..
basically people dont belive in "god" anymore beacuse the chruch and medie etc F++++ up the image of god.. most people say, i don´t belive in god BUT i belive there is somthing bigger, there is power which controll things.. well, i belive that too and i call this power A L L A H.
well if it makes you feel any better...I dont believe in Allah either. ;)
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Why don't you just call this power the universe?
The reason Atheists use Christianity to poke holes in is because Christianity is the biggest religion in America and is embedded in pop culture. But Islam isn't any more believable of a religion than Christianity, its practically the same as far as I'm concerned, except they kill you if you try to make fun of their religion or make images of their religious texts.
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Why don't you just call this power the universe?
The reason Atheists use Christianity to poke holes in is because Christianity is the biggest religion in America and is embedded in pop culture. But Islam isn't any more believable of a religion than Christianity
Exactly. Christianity is just the most convenient religion to attack. But none of them are any less ridiculous than the others. Ive said it a million times. I dont claim to know for sure that a "God" doesnt exist. My issue with religion is that it pretends to know for sure that "God" DOES exist. And obviously, there is absolutely no evidence of that. The burden of proof is not on me, as I am not pitching something to believe in.
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I'd say i told you so.
Then the next time i worked at the tire shop i would ask Everton what his opinion is on this matter. But that dumb Jamaican would prolly just tell me to "go jump in a lake"
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I'm not an atheist by the way. I'm an "I don't know shit about how the universe was created and for sure you ignorant fucks know even less than I do"
TRUTH
what i find hilarious is that a lot of atheists nowadays are actually worse than the religious folks that they criticize. they get very smug about their atheism, and will take every opportunity to 'preach' that there is no god. a little hypocritical. i used to be an atheist in my younger days when i thought i knew it all, a sure sign of maturity is when you realise you dont know shit and that its actually arrogant to think you do. atheism is almost a belief in itself these days.
one thing i do want to say in regards to the topic, is that its IMPOSSIBLE to disprove god. you can find no evidence to support gods existence, but that doesnt mean you can find evidence that will disprove his existence. its a paradox.
you cannot disprove anything for which there is so basis for comparison, for example, its reasonable to assume there are no unicorns because we have no evidence of them, but how can you 100% prove there are none? you cant disprove the existence of something, you can only reasonably assume because there is no evidence.