West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on October 08, 2010, 03:43:48 PM
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I just listened to it again for old times sake because I love 1996, and the only track that I think is dope is the opening track with Mary J. Blige, and that's probably only because it brings back memories of 96 since it was the radio single.
Seriously.. this shit is trash.. I mean, people shit on Puffy but if you listen to No Way Out or Life After Death or most of those Bad Boy Records of that era he had amazing attention to detail. I mean, even his skits were fuckin dope, like the little prayers he did for before one of the last joints on BIG's album and all that shit was way CINEMATIC.
But Jay-Z's idea of a skit is some radio personality telling guys to put out their refer... yet strangely she was serious and it was supposed to be some pro-black message or something when most the album is talking about selling drugs... lol, but the thing is it wasn't humor, it was just like a lack of focus and creativity that I think plagues the whole album and this is just one example.
Then he has a track where he is supposedly freestylin and doing the Tribe Called Quest "Can I Kick It" thing.. so your expecting that he's really gonna drop some mind blowing punchlines or something.. and then your still left waiting at the end of the track looking stupid waiting for him to finally bring it....
How did this album serve as the foundation for a billion dollar career... damn, this dude must owe his life to Dame Dash and his own marketing skills because if he had to rely on talent this dude would've been finished long ago.
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That's an insane statement.
I can agree, as far as classic 90's albums so with the biggest names of all-time, it's not as good. But this is a classic album.
Doesn't have a weak track on it.
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Damn, it's not my personal favorite hip hop album but it isn't trash. It has lots of really good songs. And really, it wasn't until The Blueprint where Jay Z started to get recognition beyond hip hop fans and in a way launched a new era.
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I just listened to it again for old times sake because I love 1996, and the only track that I think is dope is the opening track with Mary J. Blige, and that's probably only because it brings back memories of 96 since it was the radio single.
Seriously.. this shit is trash.. I mean, people shit on Puffy but if you listen to No Way Out or Life After Death or most of those Bad Boy Records of that era he had amazing attention to detail. I mean, even his skits were fuckin dope, like the little prayers he did for before one of the last joints on BIG's album and all that shit was way CINEMATIC.
But Jay-Z's idea of a skit is some radio personality telling guys to put out their refer... yet strangely she was serious and it was supposed to be some pro-black message or something when most the album is talking about selling drugs... lol, but the thing is it wasn't humor, it was just like a lack of focus and creativity that I think plagues the whole album and this is just one example.
Then he has a track where he is supposedly freestylin and doing the Tribe Called Quest "Can I Kick It" thing.. so your expecting that he's really gonna drop some mind blowing punchlines or something.. and then your still left waiting at the end of the track looking stupid waiting for him to finally bring it....
How did this album serve as the foundation for a billion dollar career... damn, this dude must owe his life to Dame Dash and his own marketing skills because if he had to rely on talent this dude would've been finished long ago.
22 2's was a clever take on wordplay, similar to what 2pac did on the title track of Me Against The World with words starting with the letter P.
And tbh that album did not take off immediately for Jay-Z. He did not become the Jay-Z we all know until well into his 3rd album and after Biggie died and by the next 2 albums they do not even hold a candle to Reasonable Doubt.
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^22 2's was on of my favorite joints off that. That was just dope spittin' with a classy Jay flow.
How can anybody shit on this album? Dead Presidents II is one of the greatest songs. D'Evils is sick. Brooklyn's Finest. The list goes on.
Like I said, Top 10-15 ever? Maybe not even Top 20. But a Hip Hop classic for sure. 8)
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BRING IT ON is my jam
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^22 2's was on of my favorite joints off that. That was just dope spittin' with a classy Jay flow.
How can anybody shit on this album? Dead Presidents II is one of the greatest songs. D'Evils is sick. Brooklyn's Finest. The list goes on.
Like I said, Top 10-15 ever? Maybe not even Top 20. But a Hip Hop classic for sure. 8)
Yessir, D'Evils was my shit. I got to dust that album off and put it in my Ipod
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Great album!
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I love this album as well, still play a few joints off it here and there
"Regrets" is a criminally slept on Jay-Z track IMO and yeah "D'Evils" was always one of my favorites 8)
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This is the only Jay-Z album that i like but the wannabe mafioso theme of the album is so corny.
oh and Gangster-rap>>>>>Mafioso-rap
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lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt? Credibility gone.
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Well if we wanna talk debuts, uh yeah, Illmatic fucks all of them over.. backwards and sideways. Lol.
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lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt?
I was about to question how he thought No Way Out was better but Infinite is cool peoples in my book
I like Life After Death better though
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lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt? Credibility gone.
No Way Out and Life After Death shit all over this album.. you want proof?
Listen to the Jay-Z joints on No Way Out and Life After Death, those tracks are FULLY PRODUCED, those tracks are like mutherfucking movies compared to that corny ass "Brooklyn's Finest" track Biggie and him probably did in the space of a half hour that landed on Reasonable Doubt.
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I just listened to it again for old times sake because I love 1996, and the only track that I think is dope is the opening track with Mary J. Blige, and that's probably only because it brings back memories of 96 since it was the radio single.
Seriously.. this shit is trash.. I mean, people shit on Puffy but if you listen to No Way Out or Life After Death or most of those Bad Boy Records of that era he had amazing attention to detail. I mean, even his skits were fuckin dope, like the little prayers he did for before one of the last joints on BIG's album and all that shit was way CINEMATIC.
But Jay-Z's idea of a skit is some radio personality telling guys to put out their refer... yet strangely she was serious and it was supposed to be some pro-black message or something when most the album is talking about selling drugs... lol, but the thing is it wasn't humor, it was just like a lack of focus and creativity that I think plagues the whole album and this is just one example.
Then he has a track where he is supposedly freestylin and doing the Tribe Called Quest "Can I Kick It" thing.. so your expecting that he's really gonna drop some mind blowing punchlines or something.. and then your still left waiting at the end of the track looking stupid waiting for him to finally bring it....
How did this album serve as the foundation for a billion dollar career... damn, this dude must owe his life to Dame Dash and his own marketing skills because if he had to rely on talent this dude would've been finished long ago.
One of my top 15 albums all time no doubt about that
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Not a huge Jay fan and I'm not nearly as high on this album as a lot of people...but it's FAR from weak.
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lol @ no way out
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lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt? Credibility gone.
No Way Out and Life After Death shit all over this album.. you want proof?
Listen to the Jay-Z joints on No Way Out and Life After Death, those tracks are FULLY PRODUCED, those tracks are like mutherfucking movies compared to that corny ass "Brooklyn's Finest" track Biggie and him probably did in the space of a half hour that landed on Reasonable Doubt.
fail....No Way Out is a decent mainstream album. But
D'evils
Dead Presidents II
Bring It On
Feelin It
Can't Knock the Hustle
Regrets
>> anything off that album
and LOL @ you comparing either Life After Death or No Way Out to the cinema. The titles sound thematic, but content-wise they are just decent mainstream albums with absolutely nothing tying the songs together. Reasonable Doubt actually has a theme through the whole album (of course with the exception of Aint No Nigga).
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Well if we wanna talk debuts, uh yeah, Illmatic fucks all of them over.. backwards and sideways. Lol.
Yeah, but Illmatic is Top 5 all-time. It shits on just about anything lol.
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I LOVE SHOCK STATEMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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2pac dissed jay, infinite is a 2pac groupie
mystery solved
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This album is DANGEROUS! I love this fucking album STR8 Classic.
Cashmere Thoughts is my tune I bump in my CADDY!
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2pac dissed jay, infinite is a 2pac groupie
mystery solved
Then how do you explain the fact that I consider Life After Death and No Way Out to be 5 Mic Classics?
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lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt? Credibility gone.
This is Infintie you're talking about, he lost his credibility a long time a go.
I'm the first to call Jay-Z overrated but this album is great.
But a Mafioso rap album in '96 is still very unoriginal.
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I dislike Jay-Z and I can't even go with this one.
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lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt? Credibility gone.
No Way Out and Life After Death shit all over this album.. you want proof?
Listen to the Jay-Z joints on No Way Out and Life After Death, those tracks are FULLY PRODUCED, those tracks are like mutherfucking movies compared to that corny ass "Brooklyn's Finest" track Biggie and him probably did in the space of a half hour that landed on Reasonable Doubt.
So basically, you preffer mainstream production values to Jay's low-budget Reasonable Doubt. Fair enough. Personally I preffer lyrical content - similie, metaphor, wordplay, rhyme.. and all of those are better on Reasonable Doubt than on any other Jay album. His flow did improve over the years, and I have heard Jay verses after Reasonable Doubt where his lyrics have been so deep and incredible. But in terms of a whole album, he never brought it like he did with this one. And personally I preffer the beats on this album too, old school 90s shit.
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No Way Out is trash compared to this.
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No Way Out is trash compared to this.
Besides victory it's trash, no need to compare it to a good album.
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2pac dissed jay, infinite is a 2pac groupie
mystery solved
Then how do you explain the fact that I consider Life After Death and No Way Out to be 5 Mic Classics?
2pac groupies are never logical
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reasonable doubt isnt weak your taste in music clearly is
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lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt? Credibility gone.
No Way Out and Life After Death shit all over this album.. you want proof?
Listen to the Jay-Z joints on No Way Out and Life After Death, those tracks are FULLY PRODUCED, those tracks are like mutherfucking movies compared to that corny ass "Brooklyn's Finest" track Biggie and him probably did in the space of a half hour that landed on Reasonable Doubt.
So basically, you preffer mainstream production values to Jay's low-budget Reasonable Doubt. Fair enough. Personally I preffer lyrical content - similie, metaphor, wordplay, rhyme..
Wait, so No Way Out and Life After Death don't have lyrical content, similie, metaphor, wordplay, and rhyme? Most of Puffy's lyrics were written by the likes of Biggie and Jadakiss, all he had to do was perform the shit and he had All-Star support on his tracks.
But let's take a song where Puffy handles all the verses. Look at songs like "Pain", "Senorita", "What You Gonna Do", "Do You Know"... he may not have written those tracks, but those are some great story telling tracks, you feel like you are watching a blockbuster movie, the emotion and attention to detail that was put into those tracks. That shit is POETIC, CINEMATIC, TRAGIC, UPLIFTING.. all at once!!
"Pain" -is like a damn soap opera style, with Puff about to die and give up when the ghost-like voice of B.I.G. appears with words and inspires him to move on, with the piano and dark accordion background sounds. This track is actually personal to Puffy's life. Like contemplating if it was all worth it for the fame and fortune only to see his man Big laying dead, with the bullet sound effects and thunderstorm effects you can visualize it all going down. Some ill story-telling in this joint like a lot of the album. So we aren't talking about just punch-lines that any emcee off the street can do, this album was full of mini-movie scripts. (Along with Big's death I think he's also touching on one incident at an arena he sponsored where some tragic shit happened I can't remember it exactly)
"Senorita" is an ether-like fog of some dream-world with that dream girl you would do anything for, your nothing and not known to her but in your mind you'd give her the world, Jadakiss wrote that joint and it is one of the best tracks of it's kind ever made. If you listen to the detail of that track, with the skit preceding it, the Spanish influence, the sound-effects in the background; you aren't talking about a regular rap song anymore you are talking about a mini-movie production!
"What You Gonna"- again a great story telling track, pondering life and death, being face to face the prospect of losing your life, and what thoughts might go through your head in that
Jay-Z couldn't make meaningful tracks like that if his fucking life depended on it. All he can do is spit a metaphor about a fucking watch or something.
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You come out with some shit infinite
Dead Presidents - Best song to come out of NY imo
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no way out was an epic album and imo has more replay value thru the years then reasonable doubt i dont view it as a puff solo i view it as a bad boy compilation.
-pain
-is this the end
-young gs
-i love you baby
-victory
-do you know
-what cha gonna do
are all classics...flawless production and great ghostwriting lol (some by jay z)
reasonable doubt was dope, i had it before it came out in stores...but i didnt connect with it like i did no way out.
fuck it....they both classic.
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2pac dissed jay, infinite is a 2pac groupie
mystery solved
Then how do you explain the fact that I consider Life After Death and No Way Out to be 5 Mic Classics?
LMAO
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I can agree with what Infinite says about No Way Out for the most part, but overall it's just a good album, same with Life After Death (which is nowhere near Ready To Die IMO)
But both albums are really inferior to Reasonable Doubt and that's not even debatable.RD is much more cohesive and Jay spits some true gems on Dead Presidents (both parts), D'Evils, Politics As Usual...and songs like Can I Live, Can't Knock The Hustle, Feelin' It are great joints, to name a few.And really, to me the weakest track is Brooklyn's Finest, I don't know why, I just usually skip it
D'Evils has such masterful wordplay that alone rivals the best tracks from No Way Out and Life After Death.And I'm not that much of a jay fan, his shit after RD is weak for the most part - I do listen to a good portion of his music after RD but , aside from a few songs on In My Lifetime, the only joint that reaches RD quality is Allure from black album.His music after RD is just cool with a few high moments
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thats crazy brooklyns finest is my least fav too on that album.
i think they are both 4 and a half star albums i just perfer the sound of puffs album, i partied to it more back in the days.
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lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt? Credibility gone.
No Way Out and Life After Death shit all over this album.. you want proof?
Listen to the Jay-Z joints on No Way Out and Life After Death, those tracks are FULLY PRODUCED, those tracks are like mutherfucking movies compared to that corny ass "Brooklyn's Finest" track Biggie and him probably did in the space of a half hour that landed on Reasonable Doubt.
So basically, you preffer mainstream production values to Jay's low-budget Reasonable Doubt. Fair enough. Personally I preffer lyrical content - similie, metaphor, wordplay, rhyme..
Wait, so No Way Out and Life After Death don't have lyrical content, similie, metaphor, wordplay, and rhyme? Most of Puffy's lyrics were written by the likes of Biggie and Jadakiss, all he had to do was perform the shit and he had All-Star support on his tracks.
But let's take a song where Puffy handles all the verses. Look at songs like "Pain", "Senorita", "What You Gonna Do", "Do You Know"... he may not have written those tracks, but those are some great story telling tracks, you feel like you are watching a blockbuster movie, the emotion and attention to detail that was put into those tracks. That shit is POETIC, CINEMATIC, TRAGIC, UPLIFTING.. all at once!!
"Pain" -is like a damn soap opera style, with Puff about to die and give up when the ghost-like voice of B.I.G. appears with words and inspires him to move on, with the piano and dark accordion background sounds. This track is actually personal to Puffy's life. Like contemplating if it was all worth it for the fame and fortune only to see his man Big laying dead, with the bullet sound effects and thunderstorm effects you can visualize it all going down. Some ill story-telling in this joint like a lot of the album. So we aren't talking about just punch-lines that any emcee off the street can do, this album was full of mini-movie scripts. (Along with Big's death I think he's also touching on one incident at an arena he sponsored where some tragic shit happened I can't remember it exactly)
"Senorita" is an ether-like fog of some dream-world with that dream girl you would do anything for, your nothing and not known to her but in your mind you'd give her the world, Jadakiss wrote that joint and it is one of the best tracks of it's kind ever made. If you listen to the detail of that track, with the skit preceding it, the Spanish influence, the sound-effects in the background; you aren't talking about a regular rap song anymore you are talking about a mini-movie production!
"What You Gonna"- again a great story telling track, pondering life and death, being face to face the prospect of losing your life, and what thoughts might go through your head in that
Jay-Z couldn't make meaningful tracks like that if his fucking life depended on it. All he can do is spit a metaphor about a fucking watch or something.
I don't think we listened to the same albums. Jay-Z's wordplay on reasonable doubt is very good and original. not only metaphors about a fucking watch or something. The beats are very dope. A well produced album that flows well. The ONLY track I'm not feeling is Ain't no nigga, mainly because the beat and the hook is weak. Can I Live, Dead Presidents, D'Evils... Those are classic hip hop tracks.
I don't give a fuck about P Diddy, just because he can produce good albums dosen't mean he made a better album than Jay-Z. You said it, his shit is ghost writed, he can't rap for his life. Jay-Z is writing his lyrics in his head, I mean, what are you trying to prove here? You don't like the album, that's ok, but you say that Diddy's album is better? Senorita is dope, just because of the production. The hook is laughable...
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I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head. When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper? He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse. It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper. Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.
Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?
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I just listened to it again for old times sake because I love 1996
:camp:
but for real that cd wasnt that great
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I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head. When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper? He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse. It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper. Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.
Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?
Yeah but from what alot of producers in the studio are saying is that he is one take in the booth. I have sat in many studio sessions and not many artists can do that. It is not to say their verses do not end up being dope, but to step in a booth and only do one take on a verse that is album really is impressive for anyone.
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I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head. When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper? He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse. It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper. Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.
Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?
Yeah but from what alot of producers in the studio are saying is that he is one take in the booth. I have sat in many studio sessions and not many artists can do that. It is not to say their verses do not end up being dope, but to step in a booth and only do one take on a verse that is album really is impressive for anyone.
yup, 98percent of all Jay-Z-music is one takes. kinda like 2pacs catalogue
i rememeber readin that Primo, is one of the few prducers that managed to get Jigga to do more than one take.
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I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head. When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper? He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse. It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper. Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.
Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?
Yeah but from what alot of producers in the studio are saying is that he is one take in the booth. I have sat in many studio sessions and not many artists can do that. It is not to say their verses do not end up being dope, but to step in a booth and only do one take on a verse that is album really is impressive for anyone.
yup, 98percent of all Jay-Z-music is one takes. kinda like 2pacs catalogue
i rememeber readin that Primo, is one of the few prducers that managed to get Jigga to do more than one take.
Pac wrote his lyrics down
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I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head. When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper? He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse. It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper. Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.
Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?
Yeah but from what alot of producers in the studio are saying is that he is one take in the booth. I have sat in many studio sessions and not many artists can do that. It is not to say their verses do not end up being dope, but to step in a booth and only do one take on a verse that is album really is impressive for anyone.
yup, 98percent of all Jay-Z-music is one takes. kinda like 2pacs catalogue
i rememeber readin that Primo, is one of the few prducers that managed to get Jigga to do more than one take.
Pac wrote his lyrics down
they mean not rerecording a verse to try and getg it sounding better
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Yeah
Pretty bold statement, obviously just trying to get some response out of people.
No Way Out is a great album but in no way should it even be compared to RD. I mean No Way Out was a collaboration album, by no stretch of the imagination was it a puff solo joint.
As has been said before I don't even like Jay-Z I think he's incredibly overrated but there is no denying the shear genius that this album is. For a debut album the production is incredible. In fact every song that people have named in this thread is a pure gem. This album doesn't have too many missteps and if you think it does your simply misinformed.
JK to each his own.
This is a great album though.
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its a clazzic no doubt but nothing like makaveli 7th day theory, illmatic or even like ready to die....no way out dont belong in the same sentence, life after death is basically an all eyez on me imitation to me...& that's coming from a pac fan here...jay is one dimensional anyways..
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im not a huge jay-z fan but i do like reasonable doubt for sure. anything he done after blueprint has been complte bullshit
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agreed...bullshit album
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the OP has already been discredited on many occasions so im not even gonna bother trying to argue the point...but anyone who thinks No Way Out is a "5 mic" classic shouldnt be allowed to speak on anything
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I just listened to it again for old times sake because I love 1996, and the only track that I think is dope is the opening track with Mary J. Blige, and that's probably only because it brings back memories of 96 since it was the radio single.
Seriously.. this shit is trash.. I mean, people shit on Puffy but if you listen to No Way Out or Life After Death or most of those Bad Boy Records of that era he had amazing attention to detail. I mean, even his skits were fuckin dope, like the little prayers he did for before one of the last joints on BIG's album and all that shit was way CINEMATIC.
But Jay-Z's idea of a skit is some radio personality telling guys to put out their refer... yet strangely she was serious and it was supposed to be some pro-black message or something when most the album is talking about selling drugs... lol, but the thing is it wasn't humor, it was just like a lack of focus and creativity that I think plagues the whole album and this is just one example.
Then he has a track where he is supposedly freestylin and doing the Tribe Called Quest "Can I Kick It" thing.. so your expecting that he's really gonna drop some mind blowing punchlines or something.. and then your still left waiting at the end of the track looking stupid waiting for him to finally bring it....
How did this album serve as the foundation for a billion dollar career... damn, this dude must owe his life to Dame Dash and his own marketing skills because if he had to rely on talent this dude would've been finished long ago.
If you were around at this time, and old enough to be in to hiphop, you'd know that NO ONE considered this a classic when it dropped. His next album was not good, but then Hard Knock Life hit, and all of a sudden everyone was saying that Reasonal Doubt was a classic.
RD is NOT a classic at the time, but being it's Jay's first, I can see why people want it to be. However, it is NOT a weak album either.
D'Evils? Insane song
Brooklyn's Finest with BIG? DOPE
Dead Presidents???!!!! Maybe Jay's nicest song ever
No Way Out a classic? Well, it DID define an era. It WAS BY NO MEANS a lyrical masterpiece, and had some filler, but then again CLASSICS do not have to be perfect like people seem to think nowadays
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alot of ppl here werent even listening to rap at the time, some of yall were still shitting in your pampers when these albums came out.
maybe it was a thing where you had to see the impact a record had on the culture. ppl didnt really check for reasonable doubt untill streets was watching dropped.
no way out carried the east coast for a minute...if u werent wutang affiliated back then east coast records werent popping as hard.
no way out lead to a tour that put brooklyn and harlem on its back, alot of cats ate on that tour...not that any of yall on a west coast forum give a shit but its true.
some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.
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some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.
musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.
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alot of ppl here werent even listening to rap at the time, some of yall were still shitting in your pampers when these albums came out.
maybe it was a thing where you had to see the impact a record had on the culture. ppl didnt really check for reasonable doubt untill streets was watching dropped.
no way out carried the east coast for a minute...if u werent wutang affiliated back then east coast records werent popping as hard.
no way out lead to a tour that put brooklyn and harlem on its back, alot of cats ate on that tour...not that any of yall on a west coast forum give a shit but its true.
some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.
i agree with you to a degree, i mean you'd be stupid to argue that puff around that time was more influential but we're speaking on a purely musical quality level, and we all know the only reason No Way Out was as big as it was and everyone wanted to hear what puff had to say is because of everything that had just happened with Biggie, and the subsequent success that Ill Be Missing You had...
but i still think, on a musical level, track for track, Reasonable Doubt is a better album... regardless of whether people were checking for it or not at the time, thats irrelevant as thats been the case with many albums which are now considered classics
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Infinite's opinion on hip hop isn't worth the time of day. A few years ago we we discussing rap and how much he hates Mobb Deep yet at that time never heard the track Shook Ones pt 2. Mobb Deep's most popular tracks and one of the greatest east coast tracks of all time. That just goes to show what a fucking joke the deadbeat dad is. Brain hates Jay-Z because to him Jay is fake. Even though Jay founded his own lable from money made by hustling. He actually made money doesn't have to go through renting cars and jewels for videos. He actually worked his way out of the projects. Yet Brian grew up worshiping rappers that would talk about what murderers they were and this that the other yet had no criminal records and can't afford to leave the projects. Yet Jay is the fake one, go figure. Brian's opinion on Jay is extremely bias yet he will use the fact he can tolerate Can't Knock the Hustle as proof he is giving Jay a fair shake, same principle though as the racist white guy that says he has a black friend. Brian doesn't like Jay because of his bias and because half the shit Jay is spitting goes right over Brian's head. He tries to paint himself as an intellectual but he is actually a fucking moron.
Personally I think Reasonable Doubt is a classic but it took some time to grow on me. But to say the album is trash just shows how bias shit brick really is.
lol /endthread
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some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.
musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.
yeah music credibilty, puff was putting niggas on...jay still aint found an act that he has put on that has been successful, that in my opinion equals musical credibility.
jay didnt blow up till his third album niggas took a second to catch on to nas but not that damn long...
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alot of ppl here werent even listening to rap at the time, some of yall were still shitting in your pampers when these albums came out.
maybe it was a thing where you had to see the impact a record had on the culture. ppl didnt really check for reasonable doubt untill streets was watching dropped.
no way out carried the east coast for a minute...if u werent wutang affiliated back then east coast records werent popping as hard.
no way out lead to a tour that put brooklyn and harlem on its back, alot of cats ate on that tour...not that any of yall on a west coast forum give a shit but its true.
some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.
i agree with you to a degree, i mean you'd be stupid to argue that puff around that time was more influential but we're speaking on a purely musical quality level, and we all know the only reason No Way Out was as big as it was and everyone wanted to hear what puff had to say is because of everything that had just happened with Biggie, and the subsequent success that Ill Be Missing You had...
but i still think, on a musical level, track for track, Reasonable Doubt is a better album... regardless of whether people were checking for it or not at the time, thats irrelevant as thats been the case with many albums which are now considered classics
lies, maybe you just had to be there...benjamins (pre remix) was already making the mixtape and radio circuit before big died and it was the hottest shit coming out of the eastcoast at that point by far.
puff at that point could do no wrong he had his hands all over jodeci and mary jay bliges career at that point as well as put on total, mase, 112 and another thing that you probably had to be there to see was that at one point and time craig mack was way hotter then biggie was. flavor in ya ear was the biggest hip hop record of that year. easily.
we all know puff is crooked and a douche but im speaking from a mid nineties state of mind right now...that nigga was every bit as hot as biggie was.
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some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.
musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.
yeah music credibilty, puff was putting niggas on...jay still aint found an act that he has put on that has been successful, that in my opinion equals musical credibility.
jay didnt blow up till his third album niggas took a second to catch on to nas but not that damn long...
Puff was hot and made an impact....in the same way that Lil Wayne is hot now. That doesn't equal musical credibility. Especially when so many off his tracks were straight ripoffs of popular 80s tracks. Now I'll give him all the props as a businessman...but that's not what we're talking about.
Jay-Z has made plenty of artists successful, not that it matters. Why does Jay-Z need to put another artist on to have musical credibility? An artist should be recognized for their own work, not others.
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i guess what im trying to say is industry cred. and business sense.
and just becasue you know who memph bleek is dont mean hes successful...i cant really get with the lil wayne referance dont really stick to me becasue for wayne to make moves he has to have his mgrs coordinate his buisness endevors, puff orchestrated his own movement and even produced a few records in his hay day...back in the day your record wasnt shit if it didnt have a pd remix on it.
artists like 112 can still tour, aint no one trying to see a memph bleek concert.
state prop could have blown up if jay didnt undermine theyre careers...and beans wasnt such a fucktard.
the only things rocafella did worth remembering are the things dame had his hands on.
yeah jay can rap his ass off but hes not the type of nigga to be ushering in new talent....he is the type to get around some niggas and bite theyre swag though (jaz o and young chris come to mind)
puff is the quincy jones of this rap shit, or at least he could have been.
im not even a big puff fan but facts is facts...puff had shit on lock and no one was calling reasonable doubt a classic till blueprint one came out.
puff was jays blueprint.
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Stop it Lyin' Brian.
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one of my favorite albums, great production and cool themes (scarface, godfather, carlito's way mixed with the hood)
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lol how is Memphis Bleek the only one Jay-Z put on?....Kanye? Beanie Sigel? Cam'ron? The Diplomats? Freeway?
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some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.
musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.
Not true at all...the real hiphop heads were looking at Nas as the second coming...and he didn't disappoint. Did he go Platinum right away??? not even close, but the respect he got right away is undeniable. Jigga, however, didn't bring ANYTHING new to the game. I liked RD, but actually felt NAS IWW was better
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King PETEY is speaking the truth...and is likely one of the few posting in this thread (besides myself) who was heavy into hiphop at that time.
BadBoy had the game on LOCK. If you don't believe it, check Jay's second cd, and his first two singles! Dude straight up jacked the BadBoy flavour.
City is Mine- hmmm...a very prominent 80's sample
Sunshine- - ever seen the video? STRAIGHT BadBoy
Illmatic is more my thing, or some Mecca and the Soul Brother, but I would also argue that No Way Out was a classic. Was it perfect? NOT EVEN CLOSE. But it DID define an era. I don't like Get Rich or Die Trying at all, but I'd argue to the death its a classic, feel me?
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lol how is Memphis Bleek the only one Jay-Z put on?....Kanye? Beanie Sigel? Cam'ron? The Diplomats? Freeway?
most of that was dame dash.
dame is responsible for signing kanye, dont forget by the time graduation came out "big brother" disowned kanye. kanye fell in jays good graces again when he blew the fuck up. he was the one that put state prop on and gave them a clothing label and shit, dont forget how jay fucked freeway over when he had the situation w g unit/roc. dame is totally responsible for camron and the dipset movement. jay didnt want any parts of that shit going on w rocafella and all thats well documented.
jay jumps on bandwagons he seldom sets trends like ppl think hes just so visable white folks dont see the trend until jays doing it.
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King PETEY is speaking the truth...and is likely one of the few posting in this thread (besides myself) who was heavy into hiphop at that time.
BadBoy had the game on LOCK. If you don't believe it, check Jay's second cd, and his first two singles! Dude straight up jacked the BadBoy flavour.
City is Mine- hmmm...a very prominent 80's sample
Sunshine- - ever seen the video? STRAIGHT BadBoy
Illmatic is more my thing, or some Mecca and the Soul Brother, but I would also argue that No Way Out was a classic. Was it perfect? NOT EVEN CLOSE. But it DID define an era. I don't like Get Rich or Die Trying at all, but I'd argue to the death its a classic, feel me?
good post my dude.
in many interviews jay and dame could be noted as saying " the bad boy era had our head fucked up" when referring to the shiny suits jay wore on shit like sunshine and money aint a thing.
puff produced records on that second album as well as the hit men and had lil kim on it etc.
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Reasonable Doubt was great...there really is only a song or 2 I skip...one of those being "Ain't No Nigga". EPMD did it way better - the hook made the farty bassline much more tolerable...
And yes, Jay was def jockin Bad Boy...In My Lifetime Vol 1 completely jacked the sampling, the visuals, Biggie's lyrics, etc.
And yeah, Puffy is a homo, but if you were into hip hop in the mid 90's then you'd know that everything he touched blew up.