West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: FilthyFill33 on April 01, 2011, 01:12:58 AM
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anybody know the exact reason y they were beefin?
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Dre left Death Row.
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Dre left Death Row.
i read somewhere that they were beefing because of snoops murder case
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Dre left Death Row.
i read somewhere that they were beefing because of snoops murder case
That too.
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Pac had suge's puppet strings surgically implanted on his body.
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It wasn't really that personal. Dr Dre from 94 onwards spent very little time around Death Row, and didn't like the trouble, or intentional controversy they "as a label" helped to create. The idiots, and gang BS wasn't an ideal work place for Dre. Then to top it off they talk again about trying to sign Tupac to the label in 95 with a better chance this time. A guy who was literally on TV all the time in 93/94 for being in trouble, being arrested, spitting at cameras, snapping, jail etc. He saw his label being turned into a street corner, and spent more time away from Death Row.
The 2 got on fine when Tupac went to Dre's house, and Dre had a lot of respect for his talents as an artist, but it wasn't personal that he didn't want Tupac on the label. Dre wasn't really working with anyone on Death Row at that point, even Snoop, or DPG. He had his own in-house team at that point. Suge never forced Dre to hand over anything, because Suge didn't even know about those spesific tracks that that point, or what they sounded like. I still don't think he's even heard them. Dre gave Pac the 2 tracks for his album, and arguably gave 2Pac his biggest ever hit
Then people got into Tupacs ear manipulating the absent Dre situation rather than deal with the problem properly and it went from there
Today, Dre still shows respect to Tupac, and because Dre's the type of person (like Quik) who dopesn't like to release his own archived music, He is against the posthumous releases, and is why he turned down the offer(s) to work on the Loyal to The Game album, and Resurrection soundtrack. It has nothing to do with present day bitterness or anything like that, but people will always assume, and add these recycled ideas into the threads everytime they come up
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They had a one night stand and then Dre left Death Row and never called.
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Man, that was some bullshit. I think that was more based around Suge's beef with Dre, then anything else. 2Pac and Dre were cool with each other at first. 2Pac came to Dre's home studio (previously mentioned) to record with Dre. All of those stories of Suge finding songs and putting 2Pac on them without Dre's permission was bullshit. Dre gave those songs to 2Pac outta love for Pac's album. Hell, Sam Sneed even gave 2Pac a beat for his album. It was outta love. Suge had more of a beef with Dre than 2Pac did and 2Pac became the mouth-piece for Suge like how Suge was the mouth-piece for Dre when Dre was leaving NWA. It was just a bunch of bullshit that was going on at that time. All of the confusion about production credits, who did what beat ("Got My Mind Made Up"). That was what started it, from what I've read along with Dre not being at Snoop's murder trial. Then, Dre leaves the label. Then tha Sam Sneed beatdown happened. Then, Suge came over to Dre's house (with like a gang of dudes) for those mastertapes, trying to scare Dre. Dre didn't care, he gave those tapes to him after he copied those tapes for himself. Suge would later go to the media stating that Dre left the label with nothing and that was lie. He just didn't get all of what was owed to him (which was half). He did give up his 50% ownership of Death Row and (at that time) the label was worth 100 million dollars. Plus, it's rumored that around that time that Suge had start dealing with Dre's ex-girl/baby mama Michel'le. 2Pac was just being the mouth-piece for Suge. It was just a bunch of bullshit that was involved in that.
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The 2 got on fine when Tupac went to Dre's house, and Dre had a lot of respect for his talents as an artist, but it wasn't personal that he didn't want Tupac on the label. Dre wasn't really working with anyone on Death Row at that point, even Snoop, or DPG. He had his own in-house team at that point. Suge never forced Dre to hand over anything, because Suge didn't even know about those spesific tracks that that point, or what they sounded like. I still don't think he's even heard them. Dre gave Pac the 2 tracks for his album, and arguably gave 2Pac his biggest ever hit
that's not what Tommy D said
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The Dre-Pac issues always seemed like an offshoot of the issues between Dre and Suge, which in themself are kind of a mystery. Suge seems to have more animosity toward Dre than just about any other person he's publicly had issues with but the reasons aren't quite clear. I saw Pac as riding for Suge at a time when Death Row was on some "With Us or Against Us" shit. From Pac's eyes, Dre was distancing himself from Death Row's beefs and was working at home instead of in the studio with everybody else. The explanations behind Dre's departure are somewhat conflicting though. Some have said Suge forced him out as a power move so he could maintain full control of the company. Others say Dre got tired of all the BS and moved on. It's pretty clear that around '94, Suge was becoming more active in the creative apsects of the company. "Murder Was The Case" went from being a project centering around Snoop and the DPG/LBC artists to incorporating more of the talent that Suge was scouting. 1995 seemed like the point where Dre was losing interest. He had been talking to Eazy about an N.W.A. reunion before his death and had started working out of a home studio. Snoop commented on saying that around the time they did Dogg Food, Dre's demeanor had kind of changed and that he was really sick of people being in the studio that had no reason to be there. Now, what doesn't quite add up is Suge's beef. The reasons given are all fishy. One was that Dre took credit from other producers. The timing on this one was suspect. Complaints of Death Row cutting everybody out of publishing credits were around since the first release but Suge had no idea that Dre was "stealing credit" until he was on the way out the door? Another reason was Dre not testifying on Snoop's behalf during the murder trial, which Pac went on record as citing as one of his main reasons for his disdain for Dre. What's weird is that nobody from Snoop's camp ever went on record to confirm this or hold Dre to task for it. And then there's of course, the homsexual rumor. This one has always felt like some high school rumor mill stuff. You had Eric Wright clowning Dre about being gay as more of a reference to his Wreckin' Cru past. There was never a serious accusation made that he actually liked to fuck guys. The only guy to go on record and make that claim to my knowledge was Suge. To me, there is still a big piece of this story missing as to why Suge hates Dre so much.
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The Dre-Pac issues always seemed like an offshoot of the issues between Dre and Suge, which in themself are kind of a mystery. Suge seems to have more animosity toward Dre than just about any other person he's publicly had issues with but the reasons aren't quite clear. I saw Pac as riding for Suge at a time when Death Row was on some "With Us or Against Us" shit. From Pac's eyes, Dre was distancing himself from Death Row's beefs and was working at home instead of in the studio with everybody else. The explanations behind Dre's departure are somewhat conflicting though. Some have said Suge forced him out as a power move so he could maintain full control of the company. Others say Dre got tired of all the BS and moved on. It's pretty clear that around '94, Suge was becoming more active in the creative apsects of the company. "Murder Was The Case" went from being a project centering around Snoop and the DPG/LBC artists to incorporating more of the talent that Suge was scouting. 1995 seemed like the point where Dre was losing interest. He had been talking to Eazy about an N.W.A. reunion before his death and had started working out of a home studio. Snoop commented on saying that around the time they did Dogg Food, Dre's demeanor had kind of changed and that he was really sick of people being in the studio that had no reason to be there. Now, what doesn't quite add up is Suge's beef. The reasons given are all fishy. One was that Dre took credit from other producers. The timing on this one was suspect. Complaints of Death Row cutting everybody out of publishing credits were around since the first release but Suge had no idea that Dre was "stealing credit" until he was on the way out the door? Another reason was Dre not testifying on Snoop's behalf during the murder trial, which Pac went on record as citing as one of his main reasons for his disdain for Dre. What's weird is that nobody from Snoop's camp ever went on record to confirm this or hold Dre to task for it. And then there's of course, the homsexual rumor. This one has always felt like some high school rumor mill stuff. You had Eric Wright clowning Dre about being gay as more of a reference to his Wreckin' Cru past. There was never a serious accusation made that he actually liked to fuck guys. The only guy to go on record and make that claim to my knowledge was Suge. To me, there is still a big piece of this story missing as to why Suge hates Dre so much.
It's much simpler than that. Suge has always been a jelous motherfucker. Before he started to put himself on the cover of magazines around 95, Dre was given all the credit for the success of death row, so the fat bastard became jealous. His jealousy of Puffy of course is legendary. And tupac was nothing more that suge's bitch, so whatever suge wanted pac to do he did. Suge ordered his bitch to call Dre gay, so the bitch did as he was told. It's really sad what tupac became after he joined death row.
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But jealousy still needs motivation. To swap out Pac for Dre makes no sense in terms of just grabbing at the spotlight. From a business view, kicking out a 50-50 partner for an artist whose in debt to you for however many albums with no ownership of the company adds up.
And with Puffy, there was still kind of a lot you could put together. Bad Boy was competition to Death Row. Then you have the question surrounding Puffy's part in the murder of Suge's best friend, Jake Roble. Now, you add to that that Suge starts rolling with Pac who also has problems with Bad Boy and it's not much of a mystery anymore. Now, Dre is different because he wasn't "competition". He was a major name on Death Row. Like I said, I can see why when Dre started to distance himself from the label, Suge might have pushed to get him out the door as soon as he had Pac in play but I don't get the animosity that continued for so many years after that and still seems to exist to this day. My thing is if you got a partner in a company and he's already made you a gang of money and you decide you don't need him anymore and you boot him out or just put so much pressure on him that he makes the decision to leave on his own and then he takes off and does his own thing and never really disses you, wouldn't that be something you would let die eventually? It's been 15 years now. There has to be something different there. He basically stopped kicking Puffy around for the most part. He still disses Snoop a little bit from time but Dre always been the one he was most vocal against.
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Jimmy H., I agree with some of that. Part of the reason why Suge still disses Dre and even Snoop is because I think that he's bitter. He didn't like that these dudes moved on, left the label, and was still able to have success without his imput. Plus, Death Row time on top was over, even after several attended comebacks. Death Row hated on them so much and it didn't work. Despite it all! We've heard all of the diss songs, encounters at award shows, and the false rumors from Death Row? Snoop, Dre, Tha Dogg Pound, etc. are still doing their thing and Suge didn't like that. He took it as them going against him and it wasn't like that at first. He didn't like that they were able (in so many ways) stand up to him.
Dre was tired of tha bullshit that was going on with Death Row and Suge. Around 1994, I think that's when Suge's ego came into play. Suge name was beginning to appearing more in the media. He was began appearing more in the media. They were having creative differences with the direction of the label. Suge was leanning more towards R&B with stuff like the Above The Rim soundtrack. Dre still wanted to do tha hardcore hiphop. Dre wanted to release his record with Cube that he was working on at the time, and Rage's solo album. Suge got involved with the Murder Was The Case soundtrack. Like it was mentioned before, that soundtrack was originally more of a DPG compilation for the soundtrack. Dre contribute to that project more than what people know of, whether it was by producing or mixing. I mean, damn near all of side A of that soundtrack was either produced by Dre or it was mixed by Dre. I don't think He was credited for his mixing on that album. Go into 1995, I think Eazy's death may have played apart of it. Suge wasn't cool with Eazy and Dre made peace with Eazy before he passed. Eazy's death really hurt Dre. Tha Dogg Pound's Dogg Food became another issue. Dre was gonna produced some cuts for Tha Dogg Pound but, Suge didn't want no production by Dre to appear. Dre did mixed that album and it was said that Dre sold some of his beats to Daz. That's why that part of that album still sounds like a Dr. Dre production. Dre still co-executive produced it. Suge was just taking over the company and he was becoming jealous. Miscommunication may have played apart also. Suge was signing people and Dre didn't know about it. The beatdowns was happenning. Around this time also Dre's relationship with Michel'le was still off and on and they ended up breaking up. I just think that Dre was tired of tha bullshit and Eazy's death was the turning point in Dre's life, I think.
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Yeah, I remember reading a quote with Dre were he said something about how he would go to the Death Row studios after coming off his jail/house arrest stint and all these new artists would be like, "Hey, I'm signed to the label and you're gonna produce my album" and he said he didn't even know any of these guys.
But the thing with people moving on is I can somewhat understand for him to maybe feel that way about Snoop-Dogg Pound because they left when he was locked up. If Dre was being pushed out of the picture, why would you see him as disloyal? You don't want him on the label so he leaves? Even in 1996, I get being mad but sometime around 2000, it should be water under the bridge.
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I mean, I don't know if I could work like that. People being signed without me knowing and I'm a CEO of tha company?! That's crazy. At least the people that Dre signed to the label, Suge met them and knew about it. It was a personal thing with Suge as far as him being bitter towards Dre and Snoop. Yeah, you would think that he would have moved on by 2000 and chill with those disses at Dre but, his pride would let that die down. Here and there, Dre and Eminem would throw disses back at Suge and Death Row. Those were just little shots here and there. They didn't go all out because Dre moved on and didn't wanna back-track. So, he kept it moving. Suge made ads, dissed him in tha media, married Dre's baby mama, and even had somebody attack Dre at tha Vibe Awards.
As far as Snoop and Tha Dogg Pound goes, I understand it to some degree. Yet, I don't because Snoop didn't diss Suge and Death Row until they start dissin' him and start doing a bunch of non-sense. Suge didn't like that Snoop and Dre was working together again. Death Row didn't clear Snoop to appear on Dr. Dre's "Zoom" track. That was gonna be kind of a launch for the Chronic 2001 album. Death Row tried to beat him up, cut his hair, kill him, ruin concerts of his, etc. Snoop got tired of that shit and I don't blame him. Now, Daz did go back to them back in late 1998 after he left for a second. Kurupt was on good terms with Death Row. That why during that time, there was no disses towards Kurupt. So, he was one of the few that was cool with both camps. Death Row tried to break up tha whole DPG with their bullshit. Like that 1999 ad for Dogg Pound Records. Suge homie Reggie did that silly shit, crossing Snoop and Nate Dogg name out. Even with Tha Dogg Pound's 2002 album, they tried it on there. Tha Suge and Daz fall out was over some non-sense. Plus, Daz stole some of those mastertapes. Once Daz and Snoop got back together, it was on from there. It was one thing to have Dre riding with Snoop thru it all but, to have Daz also was another. It became the old inmates versus the new inmates.
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I agree with Jimmy H. in that it's hard to understand Suge's obvious hatred for Dre but it sort of reminds you of like the bully picking on a dude who won't fight back at least verbally. On the slide, Dre has gotten his little licks in but never ever has he directly mentioned Suge or Pac both of whom I personally blame for the downfall of DR and the WC in general. Unlike Snoop or Daz who (after they left) were not afraid to mention Suge's name or verbally stand up to him, Dre has always publicly ignored him...Maybe that is one reason Suge has always dissed Dre..He can't get a rise out of him even now. On top of ignoring him in general, he supassed Suge personally in the business and of course Aftermath flourished while Death Row perished. Alot of people make a deal of the fact that DRe is not from the streets this and that but dude played it smarter than most. Just concentrate on his success and ignore the bullshit. I think it's obvious who has won the battle Dre>/Suge, Aftermath> Deathrow and Suge can't handle that. Snoop and Daz have had success especially Snoop but Dre has totally blown Suge the gansta out of the water on a professional, success, financial tip. He lost to a dude who is "not from the streets" according to him and the dude totally ignores him....Suge is really the one who acts like a bitch if u ask me and of course Tupac was his bitch cause he was bought and paid for. Sorry Pac fans cause I liked Pac till he came to the Row but once he came, then end of DR was inevitable.
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I agree with Jimmy H. in that it's hard to understand Suge's obvious hatred for Dre but it sort of reminds you of like the bully picking on a dude who won't fight back at least verbally. On the slide, Dre has gotten his little licks in but never ever has he directly mentioned Suge or Pac both of whom I personally blame for the downfall of DR and the WC in general. Unlike Snoop or Daz who (after they left) were not afraid to mention Suge's name or verbally stand up to him, Dre has always publicly ignored him...Maybe that is one reason Suge has always dissed Dre..He can't get a rise out of him even now. On top of ignoring him in general, he supassed Suge personally in the business and of course Aftermath flourished while Death Row perished. Alot of people make a deal of the fact that DRe is not from the streets this and that but dude played it smarter than most. Just concentrate on his success and ignore the bullshit. I think it's obvious who has won the battle Dre>/Suge, Aftermath> Deathrow and Suge can't handle that. Snoop and Daz have had success especially Snoop but Dre has totally blown Suge the gansta out of the water on a professional, success, financial tip. He lost to a dude who is "not from the streets" according to him and the dude totally ignores him....Suge is really the one who acts like a bitch if u ask me and of course Tupac was his bitch cause he was bought and paid for. Sorry Pac fans cause I liked Pac till he came to the Row but once he came, then end of DR was inevitable.
The one thing that sort of brought this all to my attention was an interview a few months back with Big Los who was basically Suge's lieutenant who said something about how he never really had any disrespect for Dre because even though Suge had the most hatred for him probably out of anyone, he never pretended to be the kind of gangsta that Snoop did. But the thing that sticks out to me is with all the people at Death Row who did these tell-alls and such, we've never really got an accurate idea of what the problem is that Suge has. When you look at him going to the "In Da Club" shoot or the Vibe incident, there has to be something driving this guy to go there. I mean, the dude has exhausted seemingly every effort to make the guy look bad publicly but unlike Puffy or Snoop, the public has never known the specifics. I'm not saying Suge was right to diss Snoop but at least with Snoop leaving and actually firing back, you could see where that feud stems from. Dre surrendered his masters and everything he helped create over there to start all over again from scratch. I don't know. 15 years is a long time to be pissed at someone for handing you over their half of a hundred-million-dollar company.
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Dre left Death Row.
i read somewhere that they were beefing because of snoops murder case
it was because of snoops murder case..dre did not testify for snoop...and Pac saw this as selling out ya homie...yet dre is a funny acting muthafucka..we see all the signs now ..don't we.
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Yeah, I remember reading a quote with Dre were he said something about how he would go to the Death Row studios after coming off his jail/house arrest stint and all these new artists would be like, "Hey, I'm signed to the label and you're gonna produce my album" and he said he didn't even know any of these guys.
But the thing with people moving on is I can somewhat understand for him to maybe feel that way about Snoop-Dogg Pound because they left when he was locked up. If Dre was being pushed out of the picture, why would you see him as disloyal? You don't want him on the label so he leaves? Even in 1996, I get being mad but sometime around 2000, it should be water under the bridge.
2001 was released
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I don't think we'll ever know the truth behind Suge's beef with Dre. We've all heard about the engineer getting beat up for rewinding the tape far. I think we may have some insight on it though. Yeah, Dre did play it better than others but, it came with a cost. I can imagine that at times it was a hard pill to swallow. It was some crazy though.
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Pac realised Dre had homo tendencies.
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2pac said that dr dre was doin 1 beat a year never in the studio but there must be a reason
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Tha Dogg Pound's Dogg Food became another issue. Dre was gonna produced some cuts for Tha Dogg Pound but, Suge didn't want no production by Dre to appear. Dre did mixed that album and it was said that Dre sold some of his beats to Daz. That's why that part of that album still sounds like a Dr. Dre production.
In the recent Snoop/Daz interview that is linked somewhere here in the forum (where they talk about nate and basically go through the whole DR era) Daz mentions that he didn't produce NY, NY and Smooth (both by DJ Pooh) . And we heard elsewhere that Dre did a Remix to Dopp Pound Gangstas or one of the other songs that never got released.
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Fake Drama!
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If you remember after the Source awards incident and Dre still accepted his award, one if the first things he said was "you/they can't stop me". Everyone knows that Suge orchestrated that attack on Dre and I think everyone knows Dre was really addressing Suge in his speech (once again, never mentioning his name) and I think Dre's attitude, success, and the fact that I am sure Suge thought he and Pac were going to totally destroy Dre after he left. When Dre's first couple of releases on Aftermath did not "blow up", I think Suge thought he had won as far as destroying Dre's rep and I'm sure alot of us thought the same. Maybe in his darkest moments alone, Dre thought he was losing as well. Say what you want about Dre and u can have your opinion about what saved his career (Em, Jimmy Iovine) but dude is like a machine and I don't think Suge realized what/who he was up against. I just don't think Suge was ever really worried about Snoop (who never really reached the success of Doggystyle) or Daz but he wanted to destroy Dre. Say what u want but from Tim Dog, no disrespect but Eazy, Luke, Suge, Jermaine Dupree, Ja Rule, and if he is not careful 50 cents, dudes who diss Dre just seem to lose one way or another. Suge needs to accept that he lost "big time" and it's over.
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i agree with your analysis but I think you're wrong to put Eazy-E in the same bag as the others mentioned. Eazy didn't diss Dre to begin with, he was dissed by Dre, and he dissed back. And Eazy was thriving, maybe not as much as Death Row but he was very successful as a CEO and as a solo act, who knows where he would be today had he not been crushed by AIDS. Like it's been mentioned by others in the topic, Eazy had most likely already resolved his issues with Dre by the time he passed and was in the talks for a NWA reunion.
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It cracks me up the ones who want to try to rewrite the story act like Pac couldn't think for himself and Suge controlled his thought process. Pac was the most outspoken person in the history of rap of course he could think for himself. They were friends at first then they had a huge falling out because of Dr Dre's changing personality at the time. Dre was reportedly upset that "California Love" was his record for Chronic 2 and Suge made it the lead single for "All Eyez On Me." Pac got on KMEL radio and talked about how Dre wasn't producing anything and said he's a bomb producer but he takes too long to make the beats and he wasn't going to wait for him and Daz, Johnny J, etc. were all grindin out beats and Dre was nowhere to be found. Pac said he was out with the homies thuggin in the streets representing the label and Dre wasn't doing anything. Then he dissed him on a bunch of tracks notably "To Live And Die," "Toss It Up" (sounds like Dre's "No Diggity" beat) and "Friendz." Dr Dre wanted to go a different direction and didn't want to be around all the gangbanging and turmoil in the studio he wanted a more private working environment where he could take 5 years to make a record.
Don't believe any of the other fake stories from groupies who have an agenda against Tha Row that's the real story and that's what happened. Some groupies will try to act like Tupac was a programmed computer and Suge Knight had the keyboard and mouse yet Pac always spoke up for himself and what he believed in. Tupac was Death Row up until he passed away. RIP
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They were friends at first then they had a huge falling out because of Dr Dre's changing personality at the time. Dre was reportedly upset that "California Love" was his record for Chronic 2 and Suge made it the lead single for "All Eyez On Me." Pac got on KMEL radio and talked about how Dre wasn't producing anything and said he's a bomb producer but he takes too long to make the beats and he wasn't going to wait for him and Daz, Johnny J, etc. were all grindin out beats and Dre was nowhere to be found. Pac said he was out with the homies thuggin in the streets representing the label and Dre wasn't doing anything. Then he dissed him on a bunch of tracks notably "To Live And Die," "Toss It Up" (sounds like Dre's "No Diggity" beat) and "Friendz."
Don't believe any of the other fake stories from groupies who have an agenda against Tha Row that's the real story and that's what happened. Some groupies will try to act like Tupac was a programmed computer and Suge Knight had the keyboard and mouse yet Pac always spoke up for himself and what he believed in. Tupac was Death Row up until he passed away. RIP
It cracks me up the ones who want to try to rewrite the story act like Pac couldn't think for himself and Suge controlled his thought process. Pac was the most outspoken person in the history of rap of course he could think for himself. They were friends at first then they had a huge falling out because of Dr Dre's changing personality at the time. Dre was reportedly upset that "California Love" was his record for Chronic 2 and Suge made it the lead single for "All Eyez On Me." Pac got on KMEL radio and talked about how Dre wasn't producing anything and said he's a bomb producer but he takes too long to make the beats and he wasn't going to wait for him and Daz, Johnny J, etc. were all grindin out beats and Dre was nowhere to be found. Pac said he was out with the homies thuggin in the streets representing the label and Dre wasn't doing anything. Then he dissed him on a bunch of tracks notably "To Live And Die," "Toss It Up" (sounds like Dre's "No Diggity" beat) and "Friendz." Dr Dre wanted to go a different direction and didn't want to be around all the gangbanging and turmoil in the studio he wanted a more private working environment where he could take 5 years to make a record.
Don't believe any of the other fake stories from groupies who have an agenda against Tha Row that's the real story and that's what happened. Some groupies will try to act like Tupac was a programmed computer and Suge Knight had the keyboard and mouse yet Pac always spoke up for himself and what he believed in. Tupac was Death Row up until he passed away. RIP
Wrong. Suge had never even heard Dre's California Love beat before in his life. He only knew about Dre's schedule of working with Rodger Troutman, and that was it.
When J-Flexx had written a track to sean barney rubble's 'basic' beat, Dre done what he done to it, and rapped J-Flexx's track word for word. The first verse on 2pac's California love, is also on the original version as well, which has 2 other Dre verses. 2Pac when recording All Eyez on Me wanted a Dr Dre track on his album - He had already recorded tracks for the album in days. Dre agreed, but Dr Dre would not go to the Can Am studios as he didn't like the atmosphere there, or the handling of peoples masters at the time. 2Pac had to go to Dre's house where he had an in-built studio in one of his rooms, where he kept all his work. He never submitted anything. Dre "gave" him 2 beats, and respected his professional, and swift attitude to his work. Although the 2 never worked together in his studio again (they done video shoots, TV promo's together on TV networks) 2Pac was able to get a beat from him again quite easily in the summer of 96. He arrived at Can Am with a Dre beat to record the Toss It Up song. Dre was going through problems with Death Row, and gave Blackstreet the same beat, since Death Row hadn't released 2Pac's album by this point. Producers on Death Row modified the entire beat that 2Pac had, and gave Dre no credit. 2Pac re-recorded his vocals, and dissed him in the song, and on other songs he done during that time with people (Suge) in his ear
Dr Dre was never forced to hand over anything, and didn't have to work with 2Pac if he didn't want to. Suge Knight didn't know anything about any beats he had. The very fact that 2Pac managed to voluntarily get 3 beats from him, and to have him in 2 of his videos, and do promotional work on MTV and other places speaks volumes considering he was supposed to have not done much around that time, and "personally" hated 2Pac. There's a lot of twisted words, and views on this entire subject, but one thing's for sure:
Dr Dre didn't hate 2Pac. He liked 2Pac, respected him as an artist, but didn't like the trouble that surrounded him. He liked Death Row, but didn't like the trouble that surrounded the studios, and the fact that the co-owner wasn't really stopping it, but fuelling it, and not really correcting any errors - IE Dogg Food, where it started from. He felt 2Pac coming to the label would double the amount of trouble that was already enough for Dre to spend all his working time at home
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^that's a nice story but wtf!!! We're supposed to believe your paragraph on what happened over anyone elses? Lol, were you there? Source or get out.
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yeah you sound very knowledgeable about the death row era mickaveli (cf. your post here and in the daz hates france topic), seems like you were working for death row at the time, am i wrong ?
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Tupac was DeathRow?? Damn, the ultimate Tupac Groupie. I will give u the fact that he initially helped to elevate Deathrow's visibility and sales and whatever and I will give u points on pointing out that Pac was always outspoken before and after DR. Having said that, when someone especially someone as powerful and connected (at that time) as Suge Knight buys you out of prison, sets u up with a recording contract and all that comes with that (even though u know there is a payback down the road), you are BOUGHT AND PAID FOR FOOL. That's right, hard for u Tupac groupies to accept but everyone has a price even Pac especially when it comes to being bailed out of prison with a brand new recording contract.. It would have been ok to have an opinion on Dre or whatever but dude was way over the top. I mean dude just came to the damn company. Tupac was DR...Fuck outta here. That is some disrespectful shit that could only come from a Pac Groupie, as if DR was nothing before Pac. Now as far as me putting Eazy in the same category as the rest of them other dudes, perhaps u are right about that. Who knows how that might have turned out.
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I don't think Pac was Suge's puppet but I think he felt a loyalty to Suge and Frank Alexander has more or less confirmed that there was never a personal issue between Pac and Dre prior to Dre leaving the label outside of him not being in the studio. I've heard so many conflicting stories from so many people that it's hard to tell but again, what is weird is there is more of a feel for why Dre and Pac clashed then why Suge and Dre have problems.
An interesting tidbit from a Bruce Williams interview though was Dre was supposedly going to extend an olive branch to Suge to end their beef before the Vibe incident happened.
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^that's a nice story but wtf!!! We're supposed to believe your paragraph on what happened over anyone elses? Lol, were you there? Source or get out.
You don't have to believe anything I say. You can choose to believe that Suge bullied Dr Dre into handing over beats - the majority thesis on this thread, or any other theory you want to believe in
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^that's a nice story but wtf!!! We're supposed to believe your paragraph on what happened over anyone elses? Lol, were you there? Source or get out.
You don't have to believe anything I say. You can choose to believe that Suge bullied Dr Dre into handing over beats - the majority thesis on this thread, or any other theory you want to believe in
I'd rather hear it from someone who was there, rather than fanboys imagining what went down on dubcc. Lol @ you acting like you know what happened.
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^that's a nice story but wtf!!! We're supposed to believe your paragraph on what happened over anyone elses? Lol, were you there? Source or get out.
You don't have to believe anything I say. You can choose to believe that Suge bullied Dr Dre into handing over beats - the majority thesis on this thread, or any other theory you want to believe in
I'd rather hear it from someone who was there, rather than fanboys imagining what went down on dubcc. Lol @ you acting like you know what happened.
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I'm takin my information from the "Welcome to Death Row" DVD -- Go watch that one (it's biased against Death Row, but they have some great insight and footage) and also watch the "Death Row Uncut" DVD (biased for Death Row obviously) -- The key here is the interview that Tupac did with KMEL Radio in the Bay Area, he explains the whole situation and calls Dre out. Anyone who wants insight on this story don't listen to me or some groupie trying to act like Dre and Pac were cool, go hear it from Pac himself on that DVD he comes out and actually explains it and says that Dre wasn't doing shit and he is a bomb producer, but wasn't makin any of the beats, wasn't showin up to the studio while he was out reppin the label.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPUTVUcATxs
"He wasn't producing shit...Other niggaz was doin the beats..and Dre was given credit...And I gotta go on MTV and say 'yeah he did this he did that'..No he ain't do it....He is a dope producer but he ain' worked in years...I got tired of that...He's ownin the company...suckin dick and eattin pussy...and I'm out here in the streets whoppin niggaz ass....puttin it down droppin albums....this nigga was takin 3 years to do one song...I couldn't have it"
He called him a homo and dissed him hardcore when they were doin the video shoot for Toss It Up with K-Ci and JoJo from Jodeci
Case closed
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And who told him to say all that shit? His owner Suge Knight. Tupac WAS his own man before death row. With Suge he became his servant, slave, lackey, catcher, property, and yes BITCH. People who knew him before death row ( Shock G, Money B, Treach, etc) all said he changed completely once Suge became his slave master. There's an interview with Shock about it from some documentary that's on youtube.
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Case Closed?? Not hardly. Oh because "Tupac Said"?? Please. Like I said before ...You act like DR did not exist before Pac came. I really don't care what Tupac said in a DVD. Perhaps if Suge had listened to Dre in the first place, (never signed Pac for one thing) and took into account Dre's vision for the company considering he was supposedly part-owner (wink), somehow DR might have survived in one form or another. Once again, Suge's puppet, perhaps not but Bought and Paid for, damn right he was. It was none of his business what Dre produced or did not produce before he came aboard. That was between Dre and Suge. Alot of work and sacrifice was put into building DR and Tupac was NOT a part of that. If I am looking for a top notch rapper, give me Pac but if I am running a record label, give me Dre all day cause of his historic production and vision. What successful label did Pac ever have a hand in running??
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I'm takin my information from the "Welcome to Death Row" DVD -- Go watch that one (it's biased against Death Row, but they have some great insight and footage) and also watch the "Death Row Uncut" DVD (biased for Death Row obviously) -- The key here is the interview that Tupac did with KMEL Radio in the Bay Area, he explains the whole situation and calls Dre out. Anyone who wants insight on this story don't listen to me or some groupie trying to act like Dre and Pac were cool, go hear it from Pac himself on that DVD he comes out and actually explains it and says that Dre wasn't doing shit and he is a bomb producer, but wasn't makin any of the beats, wasn't showin up to the studio while he was out reppin the label.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPUTVUcATxs
"He wasn't producing shit...Other niggaz was doin the beats..and Dre was given credit...And I gotta go on MTV and say 'yeah he did this he did that'..No he ain't do it....He is a dope producer but he ain' worked in years...I got tired of that...He's ownin the company...suckin dick and eattin pussy...and I'm out here in the streets whoppin niggaz ass....puttin it down droppin albums....this nigga was takin 3 years to do one song...I couldn't have it"
He called him a homo and dissed him hardcore when they were doin the video shoot for Toss It Up with K-Ci and JoJo from Jodeci
Case closed
That to me is artist-level P.R. You're gonna go full-out on a guy for being lazy? It's not gonna be bitterness some 15 years later between certain camps if it's just over Dre sitting home and not contributing.
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And who told him to say all that shit? His owner Suge Knight. Tupac WAS his own man before death row. With Suge he became his servant, slave, lackey, catcher, property, and yes BITCH. People who knew him before death row ( Shock G, Money B, Treach, etc) all said he changed completely once Suge became his slave master. There's an interview with Shock about it from some documentary that's on youtube.
I don't understand how you could try to paint Pac out to be some sort of mindless "Yes Man" dude always gave 100 and spoke from the heart. People forget that Dr. Dre, as great as a producer as he is, was going through a personality change. When the original Chronic came out, he was percieved as a badass much like Pac, and he was running around beefing with Luke, Tim Dog, Eazy-E -- he got in trouble for slappin some woman, and he was carryin around guns and even posed with them on magazines. So he all of a sudden decides he doesn't want to do that anymore that was a complete personality change -- fair enough, but why couldn't he produce some tracks for Tupac and the other Row artists? And Tupac said he was supposeably lieing to the media about what tracks Dre produced when someone else was really producing them (Daz? DJ Pooh? Johnny J?). And proven by us waiting over 10 years for Detox, was Pac lyin when he said it takes Dre forever to complete a project?
Also, ask yourself this question. Why did everyone side with Tupac and nobody stood up for Dre, including Snoop, who was the second biggest artist after Pac. So you had all these artists -- Snoop, Daz, Kurupt, Hammer, Nate Dogg, OFTB, Bad Azz, Trey D, The Outlawz, Danny Boy, and some of the lesser known artists and you didn't see any of them siding with Dre when this all went down. Snoop didn't patch it up with Dre until he went to Master P's No Limit Records. So how was Pac bein a "yes man" when none of the other artists disagreed with him or ran to Dre who was part-owner at the time? Artists can say whatever they want now, but at the time when this was goin down nobody ran to Dre's side. Wouldn't that tell you that either Pac was speakin the real truth or Dre really wasn't doin shit for the label (which is what Pac was sayin)?
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Again, this is not just me saying this. People who were close to tupac before death row have said the same things repeatedly. I don't remember anyone other than tupac choosing any sides at that time, but even if they did of course they would side with Suge. They were signed to death row. Suge was their slave master at that time.
As it turns out we now know that the only person who was his own man an that label was Dre. Everybody else was just content to suck Suge's cock.
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Also, ask yourself this question. Why did everyone side with Tupac and nobody stood up for Dre, including Snoop, who was the second biggest artist after Pac. So you had all these artists -- Snoop, Daz, Kurupt, Hammer, Nate Dogg, OFTB, Bad Azz, Trey D, The Outlawz, Danny Boy, and some of the lesser known artists and you didn't see any of them siding with Dre when this all went down. Snoop didn't patch it up with Dre until he went to Master P's No Limit Records. So how was Pac bein a "yes man" when none of the other artists disagreed with him or ran to Dre who was part-owner at the time? Artists can say whatever they want now, but at the time when this was goin down nobody ran to Dre's side. Wouldn't that tell you that either Pac was speakin the real truth or Dre really wasn't doin shit for the label (which is what Pac was sayin)?
None of these artists oustide of the people already closer affiliated with Suge or Pac were siding with anyone. They were friends with Pac and artists on Suge's label but it wasn't like it was in their best interests to go out of their way to big up Dre when they were on Death Row. If you look at Pac's last months, many people say him and Snoop weren't even cool with one another. I don't think Pac would have even been in the position to judge what Dre's role was. By the time he was at Death Row, Dre was already removed from that enviroment. And Snoop actually patched things up with Dre while he was still on Death Row. The track, "Zoom", which ended up being a Dre collabo with LL Cool J was actually originally going to be a Dre-Snoop reunion track but Death Row wouldn't clear any of their artists to work with him. It's not a secret how all these artists who jumped from Death Row like Nate Dogg and Kurupt suddenly found themselves working with Dr. Dre again almost immediately. I think if you look at the mind state of those artists at the time, it was that they were still locked into deals with Death Row. Whoever was going to work with Dre, left with him right away, and the only guy who tried to be friendly with both (Sam Sneed) ended up getting his ass kicked at a label meeting. Like I said, nothing publicly said at the time adds up to what was going on. If it was Suge's decision for Dre to leave the label which Pac claimed in the interview you brought up, why does Pac say he "jumped ship" on Toss It Up? You're not gonna force a guy off the label and threaten violence against him and everyone involved with his team based strictly on the kind of stuff Tupac was claiming he did. There's HUGE sections of this story missing... and maybe Suge and Tupac were right but to me, it seems like Pac and Dre were just in two very different stages of their lives. Pac was thriving off of beef and Dre had had enough of it.
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Just because "Tupac Said"?? Please... Mobb Deep's said that he was raped in jail, how bout that? case closed, pac was fucked in the ass... ??? ???
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Again, this is not just me saying this. People who were close to tupac before death row have said the same things repeatedly. I don't remember anyone other than tupac choosing any sides at that time, but even if they did of course they would side with Suge. They were signed to death row. Suge was their slave master at that time.
As it turns out we now know that the only person who was his own man an that label was Dre. Everybody else was just content to suck Suge's cock.
lmao are you a Dre stan as well? Lol @ Dre being his own man when he's the one who got fucked over the most at Death Row. He lost half of an extremely successful company and all the rights to the music he created because he was too chickenshit to stand up to Suge. I mean damn the guy could've at least sold his stake in Death Row. For someone who's all about the money he must've been scared shitless to give all that up.
Everyone else at Death Row might've lost the rights to their music, but Dre lost the company HE created and made. He was Suge's bitch to the fullest more than any of those dudes. And now apparently he's Jimmy's bitch as well. At least he's a rich bitch tho right?
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Again, this is not just me saying this. People who were close to tupac before death row have said the same things repeatedly. I don't remember anyone other than tupac choosing any sides at that time, but even if they did of course they would side with Suge. They were signed to death row. Suge was their slave master at that time.
As it turns out we now know that the only person who was his own man an that label was Dre. Everybody else was just content to suck Suge's cock.
lmao are you a Dre stan as well? Lol @ Dre being his own man when he's the one who got fucked over the most at Death Row. He lost half of an extremely successful company and all the rights to the music he created because he was too chickenshit to stand up to Suge. I mean damn the guy could've at least sold his stake in Death Row. For someone who's all about the money he must've been scared shitless to give all that up.
Everyone else at Death Row might've lost the rights to their music, but Dre lost the company HE created and made. He was Suge's bitch to the fullest more than any of those dudes. And now apparently he's Jimmy's bitch as well. At least he's a rich bitch tho right?
When you're sure of yourself and know who you are and what you can do it's ok to lose one battle. Dre won the war. Suge is broke and is getting punched out in cheap clubs, the former death row dick riders are all either dead or broke. So who won?
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Again, this is not just me saying this. People who were close to tupac before death row have said the same things repeatedly. I don't remember anyone other than tupac choosing any sides at that time, but even if they did of course they would side with Suge. They were signed to death row. Suge was their slave master at that time.
As it turns out we now know that the only person who was his own man an that label was Dre. Everybody else was just content to suck Suge's cock.
lmao are you a Dre stan as well? Lol @ Dre being his own man when he's the one who got fucked over the most at Death Row. He lost half of an extremely successful company and all the rights to the music he created because he was too chickenshit to stand up to Suge. I mean damn the guy could've at least sold his stake in Death Row. For someone who's all about the money he must've been scared shitless to give all that up.
Everyone else at Death Row might've lost the rights to their music, but Dre lost the company HE created and made. He was Suge's bitch to the fullest more than any of those dudes. And now apparently he's Jimmy's bitch as well. At least he's a rich bitch tho right?
When you're sure of yourself and know who you are and what you can do it's ok to lose one battle. Dre won the war. Suge is broke and is getting punched out in cheap clubs, the former death row dick riders are all either dead or broke. So who won?
A dude who got fucked in prison and then became a millionaire when he got out will always be a guy who had another man's dick up his ass.
And btw, Dre traded in one master for another. Now he owned by Jimmy. Its just sad such a talented producer always has to have someone telling him what to do.
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Who are you talking about? Yourself?
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lmao are you a Dre stan as well? Lol @ Dre being his own man when he's the one who got fucked over the most at Death Row. He lost half of an extremely successful company and all the rights to the music he created because he was too chickenshit to stand up to Suge. I mean damn the guy could've at least sold his stake in Death Row. For someone who's all about the money he must've been scared shitless to give all that up.
Everyone else at Death Row might've lost the rights to their music, but Dre lost the company HE created and made. He was Suge's bitch to the fullest more than any of those dudes. And now apparently he's Jimmy's bitch as well. At least he's a rich bitch tho right?
I don't know though, man. He lost the company but at the time, his name would have been on all those lawsuits that didn't even involve him because his partner, Suge, was catching a lot of unwanted legal attention. Yes, he maybe could have stuck around and tried to sell his shares but Jimmy was offering him a brand new company and a chance to run it his way. Honestly if you look at how things went if Suge had kept Dre and these other guys happy and wasn't all about trying to punk people out, Death Row would have had all of Dre, Snoop, and Tupac's music projects going down under the Death Row umbrella. And the fucked thing is Suge had the brains and the business savy to get it done where the labels would have to answer to him. Dre didn't really lose out on too much profit over there. He kept his publishing points on every album he had a hand in and then walked over to a new deal where he ended up making even more money.
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lmao are you a Dre stan as well? Lol @ Dre being his own man when he's the one who got fucked over the most at Death Row. He lost half of an extremely successful company and all the rights to the music he created because he was too chickenshit to stand up to Suge. I mean damn the guy could've at least sold his stake in Death Row. For someone who's all about the money he must've been scared shitless to give all that up.
Everyone else at Death Row might've lost the rights to their music, but Dre lost the company HE created and made. He was Suge's bitch to the fullest more than any of those dudes. And now apparently he's Jimmy's bitch as well. At least he's a rich bitch tho right?
I don't know though, man. He lost the company but at the time, his name would have been on all those lawsuits that didn't even involve him because his partner, Suge, was catching a lot of unwanted legal attention. Yes, he maybe could have stuck around and tried to sell his shares but Jimmy was offering him a brand new company and a chance to run it his way. Honestly if you look at how things went if Suge had kept Dre and these other guys happy and wasn't all about trying to punk people out, Death Row would have had all of Dre, Snoop, and Tupac's music projects going down under the Death Row umbrella. And the fucked thing is Suge had the brains and the business savy to get it done where the labels would have to answer to him. Dre didn't really lose out on too much profit over there. He kept his publishing points on every album he had a hand in and then walked over to a new deal where he ended up making even more money.
Legally Suge shouldn't have been allowed to make all those business decisions. The guy was a bodyguard for crying out loud. There's really no other sensible explanation for Dre losing his company except to say he was cowed and let Suge bully him.
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Who are you talking about? Yourself?
:D what a herb. Seriously that's all you have to say? I guess I ended your groupie desire to stick up for Dre.
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Is "herb" a new word you learned today and just want to use it as much as possible?
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No I learned it a month ago.
You've gotta be the worst poster on here, even worse than the guys who can barely speak English. How do you go from Dre being Suge's bitch to speculating on another man's sexuality? Does that really make sense to you? Not only that you're dodging most of what I've said. At least I try and address your posts, even if I'm shitting on you at the same time :D
You gave up on the topic so I'm taking this as being over. If you want to question me or anyone else about our experiences in prison you're welcome to make a thread about it.
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No I learned it a month ago.
You've gotta be the worst poster on here, even worse than the guys who can barely speak English. How do you go from Dre being Suge's bitch to speculating on another man's sexuality? Does that really make sense to you? Not only that you're dodging most of what I've said. At least I try and address your posts, even if I'm shitting on you at the same time :D
You gave up on the topic so I'm taking this as being over. If you want to question me or anyone else about our experiences in prison you're welcome to make a thread about it.
It doesn't cos i'm not gay, you are.
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No I learned it a month ago.
You've gotta be the worst poster on here, even worse than the guys who can barely speak English. How do you go from Dre being Suge's bitch to speculating on another man's sexuality? Does that really make sense to you? Not only that you're dodging most of what I've said. At least I try and address your posts, even if I'm shitting on you at the same time :D
You gave up on the topic so I'm taking this as being over. If you want to question me or anyone else about our experiences in prison you're welcome to make a thread about it.
It doesn't cos i'm not gay, you are.
Your own posts don't make sense to you?
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Again, this is not just me saying this. People who were close to tupac before death row have said the same things repeatedly. I don't remember anyone other than tupac choosing any sides at that time, but even if they did of course they would side with Suge. They were signed to death row. Suge was their slave master at that time.
As it turns out we now know that the only person who was his own man an that label was Dre. Everybody else was just content to suck Suge's cock.
lmao are you a Dre stan as well? Lol @ Dre being his own man when he's the one who got fucked over the most at Death Row. He lost half of an extremely successful company and all the rights to the music he created because he was too chickenshit to stand up to Suge. I mean damn the guy could've at least sold his stake in Death Row. For someone who's all about the money he must've been scared shitless to give all that up.
Everyone else at Death Row might've lost the rights to their music, but Dre lost the company HE created and made. He was Suge's bitch to the fullest more than any of those dudes. And now apparently he's Jimmy's bitch as well. At least he's a rich bitch tho right?
he did sell it
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Again, this is not just me saying this. People who were close to tupac before death row have said the same things repeatedly. I don't remember anyone other than tupac choosing any sides at that time, but even if they did of course they would side with Suge. They were signed to death row. Suge was their slave master at that time.
As it turns out we now know that the only person who was his own man an that label was Dre. Everybody else was just content to suck Suge's cock.
lmao are you a Dre stan as well? Lol @ Dre being his own man when he's the one who got fucked over the most at Death Row. He lost half of an extremely successful company and all the rights to the music he created because he was too chickenshit to stand up to Suge. I mean damn the guy could've at least sold his stake in Death Row. For someone who's all about the money he must've been scared shitless to give all that up.
Everyone else at Death Row might've lost the rights to their music, but Dre lost the company HE created and made. He was Suge's bitch to the fullest more than any of those dudes. And now apparently he's Jimmy's bitch as well. At least he's a rich bitch tho right?
he did sell it
source? Every story about it I've read says he walked away with nothing.
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i think i got that from dre's biography book ( by ronin ro).
the story that he left with nothing came from suge
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So you should read "Rollin Wit Dre" book then. From the man behind the man, Bruce Williams.
Thing is, Dre's really Jimmy Lovine's bitch, at least, Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
The thing about Suge is, he was real good at using ppl for his own interest. Like, DOC, Dre, Tupac..
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So you should read "Rollin Wit Dre" book then. From the man behind the man, Bruce Williams.
Thing is, Dre's really Jimmy Lovine's bitch, at least, Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
The thing about Suge is, he was real good at using ppl for his own interest. Like, DOC, Dre, Tupac..
yeah i read that one as well, good book.
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
well, I know about this, thank you though. Now, from another point of view, that can be called 'bending over... with no vaseline' (just remembered Ice Cube about those Jerry Heller lines... lol)
Ya know Dre is supposed to be a real tight producer with creative control. If Jimmy doesn't like a release or some project, that won't happen, simple as that.. Dre's Jimmys bitch
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^that's a nice story but wtf!!! We're supposed to believe your paragraph on what happened over anyone elses? Lol, were you there? Source or get out.
You don't have to believe anything I say. You can choose to believe that Suge bullied Dr Dre into handing over beats - the majority thesis on this thread, or any other theory you want to believe in
I'd rather hear it from someone who was there, rather than fanboys imagining what went down on dubcc. Lol @ you acting like you know what happened.
The source that supplied the information was there, but only a small handful of people on here will know the source by certain key information that's been written down. I'm not about to disclose a name to keep you happy. What I've been told may be false but only time will tell
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^that's a nice story but wtf!!! We're supposed to believe your paragraph on what happened over anyone elses? Lol, were you there? Source or get out.
You don't have to believe anything I say. You can choose to believe that Suge bullied Dr Dre into handing over beats - the majority thesis on this thread, or any other theory you want to believe in
I'd rather hear it from someone who was there, rather than fanboys imagining what went down on dubcc. Lol @ you acting like you know what happened.
The source that supplied the information was there, but only a small handful of people on here will know the source by certain key information that's been written down. I'm not about to disclose a name to keep you happy. What I've been told may be false but only time will tell
If you can't link the source then there isn't one. There's so much word of mouth bs going around that you saying you heard it from someone isn't any better than an internet rumor.
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It's not a secret how all these artists who jumped from Death Row like Nate Dogg and Kurupt suddenly found themselves working with Dr. Dre again almost immediately. Pac was thriving off of beef and Dre had had enough of it.
I agree, but with the Nate Dogg situation he was totally down with Death Row even after Dre left. It wasn't until Death Row released his "G Funk Classics" album overseas (was supposed to drop here in the U.S.) and then after 2 weeks scrapped the release, stopped the production, and scrapped the project in the U.S. At that point Nate was through and he had to go to court to get out of his contract and sued for possession of his material that he recorded. At that point, Nate had an extreme dislike of the label and never again said anything positive about it.
Snoop wanted his "Doggumentary (OG Version)/Smokefest 1997" album released and he was cool with the label until Suge kept pushing his album back. Suge had a way of putting artists in purgatory (forever delaying their projects) if he had a problem with an artist and they were locked in contracts. But it might've been that Tupac had just passed away, Suge was going to prison, and the label was in complete disfunction. Suge also felt the quality of those tracks wasn't up to par for Snoop's standards ("Doggystyle" obviously sold extremely well, and even though Doggfather sold 3 million units it was not on the same level as his first release and some even called it a 'failure'). (A lot of those tracks appeared on "Dead Man Walkin" and IMO he's right they were good, but they weren't up to Snoop's top quality. Whatever the reason, the album wasn't being released nor promoted).
With Kurupt, he was still signed to Death Row as a member of "Tha Dogg Pound" but not as a solo artist; he was givin the blessing by Suge to go start ANTRA Records where he was the CEO. Kurupt was actually cool with both Dr. Dre and Suge Knight and he was the only notable artist to appear on both Chronic albums in 1999 -- "The Chronic 2000: Suge Knight Represents" and "Dr. Dre 2001." Daz tookover the spot of lead producer that Dr. Dre formerly held.
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but Dre lost the company HE created and made.
These guys both MADE the company, it was Suge who got Dre out of his deal with Eazy-E/Jerry Heller/Ruthless and persuaded him to come from behind the boards and make a solo album to present to Interscope so they could land the deal. Nobody was investing major dollars into rap music, let alone "gangsta rap" they both took a huge risk. Suge's money funded Death Row and Dre's top tier production skills put the music end to work. They signed the right artists and secured the huge deal with Interscope who paid MTV and other media outlets big money to promote the label. Suge and Dre are both great at recruiting talent and know what good music and music that can chart in the Top 10 sounds like. After Pac's passing, when Suge got sent to prison, he had gangsters and uneducated people who were not business-savy running the company. You can't go from having two marketing, music, and business-savy guys like Dre and Suge to having Daz and C-Style and a bunch of Row associates and gang members trying to run a company while Suge was in prison. Death Row was a $400 million enterprise and when Suge went to prison they couldn't even fill out a tax form. Artists were locked into deals, albums weren't being released, checks were not being paid out. If he had smarter people running the company and Dre would've stayed, it would've been different. But the whole dynasty really collapsed when Suge went to prison and Dre left the label.
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By the way, the part about Dre and Eazy talking about a NWA reunion is 100% false. Dre never talked to Eazy directly about that supposed reunion; Dre has claimed on multiple occasions he made peace with Eazy when he was unconscious at the hospital.
Unless Dre can read minds, there was no direct contact about that reunion.
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dre n pac beef is simple...all them novels yall writing...waste of time
look how long detox been coming.... look how fast pac was in n out of the studio...
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Discussing a 15 year old beef between a homosexual and a man that has been dead for just as long as the beef and was such a weak person he let Suge control him.
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Dre is a good producer, but hes a bitch and could never fuck wit pac's level of realness so he talked shit like a slut.
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By the way, the part about Dre and Eazy talking about a NWA reunion is 100% false. Dre never talked to Eazy directly about that supposed reunion; Dre has claimed on multiple occasions he made peace with Eazy when he was unconscious at the hospital.
Unless Dre can read minds, there was no direct contact about that reunion.
there were plans though
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Dr Dre didnt need to release anything.but in 95/96 Dr Dre done more than most,especially for 2pac.he was told to stay away from court directly from interscope who in turn paid massive amounts to the legal team representing Snoop Dogg in an attempt to keep Dres name clean.they had plans to mould him into a mature artist hence why chronic 2 was scrapped
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By the way, the part about Dre and Eazy talking about a NWA reunion is 100% false. Dre never talked to Eazy directly about that supposed reunion; Dre has claimed on multiple occasions he made peace with Eazy when he was unconscious at the hospital.
Unless Dre can read minds, there was no direct contact about that reunion.
there were plans though
Eazy and Cube talked about it, but Eazy and Dre never had the chance to talk about reuniting
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loyalty . this is why the beef . dre dont go in tribunal defend Snoop in this case .. simply .. tupac defended loyalt by part of Dre
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Hainas!
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Why would Dr Dre show up at court, when instructed by Interscope to stay clear of the entire case? Interscope would have ensured Dr Dre that their money would guarantee Snoops victory at court, and it did, without Dr Dre's testimony!
Interscope's plan should have be obvious to most. They were wanting Dr Dre to themselves without Death Row since the near beginning. Beginning being after the success of Chronic & Doggystyle. Death Row struggled to get Interscope to distribute Snoop's 2nd album, and the Makaveli album, and were literally getting the cold shoulder from them once they got Dre
Who was it who gave Dr Dre his share of Death Row when he left? It wasn't Death Row
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Death Row struggled to get Interscope to distribute Snoop's 2nd album, and the Makaveli album, and were literally getting the cold shoulder from them once they got Dre
No they weren't "literally" getting the cold shoulder. Because literally would mean chopping my shoulder off, freezing it and giving it to you. You mean figuratively.
Grammar police strikes again.
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Why would Dr Dre show up at court, when instructed by Interscope to stay clear of the entire case? Interscope would have ensured Dr Dre that their money would guarantee Snoops victory at court, and it did, without Dr Dre's testimony!
Interscope's plan should have be obvious to most. They were wanting Dr Dre to themselves without Death Row since the near beginning. Beginning being after the success of Chronic & Doggystyle. Death Row struggled to get Interscope to distribute Snoop's 2nd album, and the Makaveli album, and were literally getting the cold shoulder from them once they got Dre
Who was it who gave Dr Dre his share of Death Row when he left? It wasn't Death Row
Makaveli was distributed by Priority right? But wasn't/isn't Priority owned by Interscope?
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Why would Dr Dre show up at court, when instructed by Interscope to stay clear of the entire case? Interscope would have ensured Dr Dre that their money would guarantee Snoops victory at court, and it did, without Dr Dre's testimony!
Interscope's plan should have be obvious to most. They were wanting Dr Dre to themselves without Death Row since the near beginning. Beginning being after the success of Chronic & Doggystyle. Death Row struggled to get Interscope to distribute Snoop's 2nd album, and the Makaveli album, and were literally getting the cold shoulder from them once they got Dre
Who was it who gave Dr Dre his share of Death Row when he left? It wasn't Death Row
how can you be so sure that death row didn't pay him for his part of death row? were you there during the negotiations?
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Why would Dr Dre show up at court, when instructed by Interscope to stay clear of the entire case? Interscope would have ensured Dr Dre that their money would guarantee Snoops victory at court, and it did, without Dr Dre's testimony!
Interscope's plan should have be obvious to most. They were wanting Dr Dre to themselves without Death Row since the near beginning. Beginning being after the success of Chronic & Doggystyle. Death Row struggled to get Interscope to distribute Snoop's 2nd album, and the Makaveli album, and were literally getting the cold shoulder from them once they got Dre
Who was it who gave Dr Dre his share of Death Row when he left? It wasn't Death Row
Makaveli was distributed by Priority right? But wasn't/isn't Priority owned by Interscope?
It was supposed to be distributed thru Priority but it ended up being released with Interscope..
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Suge said in an interview that Jimmy came to him on behalf of Interscope wanted him to "soften" his artists lyrics and he wasn't having it so he left and went to Priority. Think about this: after B.I.G. got dropped in L.A. the gangsta music was pretty much phased off the radio everywhere except the L.A. area where it was so strong they couldnt do anything -- and it turned into Puffy and Mase dancing in space suits, Will Smith gettin jiggy, Cash Money Bling Bling, Jay-Z "Money Aint A Thang" and "Can I Get A," and Black Rob sayin 'Whoa.' Overall, there was def an effort by the radio/Interscope/mtv and other labels to turn away from the gangsta music. Dre even did 'positive' music "Been There Done That" (also think about Slim Shady's first album how corny that "My Name Is.." single it was way softer than Death Row's music or even his second album Marshall Mathers) and it wasn't successful so they went back to the harder rap in 2000 but just not as 'gangsta.'
I mean just look at Jay-Z, nobody was lookin for him when his first two albums dropped and now all of a sudden all the radio outlets were pushin him hard, cause they wanted to turn away from gangsta music and particularly the west coast way.
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Suge said in an interview that Jimmy came to him on behalf of Interscope wanted him to "soften" his artists lyrics and he wasn't having it so he left and went to Priority. Think about this: after B.I.G. got dropped in L.A. the gangsta music was pretty much phased off the radio everywhere except the L.A. area where it was so strong they couldnt do anything -- and it turned into Puffy and Mase dancing in space suits, Will Smith gettin jiggy, Cash Money Bling Bling, Jay-Z "Money Aint A Thang" and "Can I Get A," and Black Rob sayin 'Whoa.' Overall, there was def an effort by the radio/Interscope/mtv and other labels to turn away from the gangsta music. Dre even did 'positive' music "Been There Done That" (also think about Slim Shady's first album how corny that "My Name Is.." single it was way softer than Death Row's music or even his second album Marshall Mathers) and it wasn't successful so they went back to the harder rap in 2000 but just not as 'gangsta.'
I mean just look at Jay-Z, nobody was lookin for him when his first two albums dropped and now all of a sudden all the radio outlets were pushin him hard, cause they wanted to turn away from gangsta music and particularly the west coast way.
bullshit, interscope ditched death row
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Priority was actually the distributor for a lot of Interscope's Death Row releases. Interscope dumped Death Row because Suge was in prison, Dre and Snoop were both gone, and Interscope already had the contractual rights to Pac's catalog. Suge himself had said at his arraignment that he agreed with C. Delores Tucker than any future Death Row releases would not include the "N" word but he must have changed his mind shortly after. There was no effort by radio, MTV, and Interscope to end gangsta rap. They were all profiting off of it. If they phased it out, it was because the public was losing interest. If they didn't make a calculated effort to kill it back in 1991-92 in the wake of the L.A. riots, they weren't gonna do it in 1997 because a couple rappers got killed.
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Priority was actually the distributor for a lot of Interscope's Death Row releases. Interscope dumped Death Row because Suge was in prison, Dre and Snoop were both gone, and Interscope already had the contractual rights to Pac's catalog. Suge himself had said at his arraignment that he agreed with C. Delores Tucker than any future Death Row releases would not include the "N" word but he must have changed his mind shortly after. There was no effort by radio, MTV, and Interscope to end gangsta rap. They were all profiting off of it. If they phased it out, it was because the public was losing interest. If they didn't make a calculated effort to kill it back in 1991-92 in the wake of the L.A. riots, they weren't gonna do it in 1997 because a couple rappers got killed.
But they weren't just your average "couple rappers," they happened to be the biggest (Tupac) and a top 5 (Notorious B.I.G.). The media took the biggest blame for the East/West beef and they were indirectly taking blame for the two biggest artists on their relative coasts, Tupac and Notorious B.I.G., being gone. They used to do specials in magazines with East vs. West comparisons and havin artists talk about the style of their coast vs. the other coast. They used to air specials on tv and people used to talk about it. West at the time was outselling the East 2 to 1 units. All of a sudden, they don't talk about it anymore. How could they have a topic/stage where everyone is writing/speaking about East vs. West then all of a sudden nobody talks about it anymore?
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But you can't just manipulate the buying public overnight like that. If something is hot, it's hot. Gangsta rap had basically peaked. That business about the West outselling the East nearly twice over sounds a little suspect. Who besides Pac and Death Row was selling like that? Where's the numbers on this one?
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But you can't just manipulate the buying public overnight like that. If something is hot, it's hot. Gangsta rap had basically peaked. That business about the West outselling the East nearly twice over sounds a little suspect. Who besides Pac and Death Row was selling like that? Where's the numbers on this one?
It's true, you can check the facts if you want.
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Suge said in an interview that Jimmy came to him on behalf of Interscope wanted him to "soften" his artists lyrics and he wasn't having it so he left and went to Priority. Think about this: after B.I.G. got dropped in L.A. the gangsta music was pretty much phased off the radio everywhere except the L.A. area where it was so strong they couldnt do anything -- and it turned into Puffy and Mase dancing in space suits, Will Smith gettin jiggy, Cash Money Bling Bling, Jay-Z "Money Aint A Thang" and "Can I Get A," and Black Rob sayin 'Whoa.' Overall, there was def an effort by the radio/Interscope/mtv and other labels to turn away from the gangsta music. Dre even did 'positive' music "Been There Done That" (also think about Slim Shady's first album how corny that "My Name Is.." single it was way softer than Death Row's music or even his second album Marshall Mathers) and it wasn't successful so they went back to the harder rap in 2000 but just not as 'gangsta.'
I mean just look at Jay-Z, nobody was lookin for him when his first two albums dropped and now all of a sudden all the radio outlets were pushin him hard, cause they wanted to turn away from gangsta music and particularly the west coast way.
how interscope wanted to soften the lyrics..when they had marilyn manson, the firm, snoop and a couple of more
jay had radio friendly singles n jay most of new york djs behind em...new york music scene is waaaaaaaaaaay different than anywhere else..only music scene is similiar is the south...
new york got kay slay n flex
south got mean green n greg street....
durin that era... we didnt hear no eminem, jay z, will smith unless it was summer time...our stations didnt play that jiggy shit
rarely heard mase... but we didnt have black rob whoa.. kuz a couple months..
.big moe flipped whoa!! to mannn...then we stop hearin whoa..and man was our anthem
death row fell off... no limit came in the game...put southern gangta music out...and that shit had the rap game for like 4-5yrs ... cashmoney took it n continued .
priority picked up the ball once interscope fell off.. with master p and his tank...p fell off.. interscope grab the ball again...reinvented themselves..durin ps helm...
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Death Row over Bad Boy perhaps, but East as a whole were still selling really high. What about Def Jam's East Coast talent? Jay Z, Wu-Tang, Nas, and the Bad Boy staff Biggie, Mase etc. Then you had Ruff Ryders/DMX, Fugees/Lauren Hill, and other artists creeping up like Missy Elliot, Redman and so on
Even in the early 90's, the East was still churning out hot product
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.
truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.
truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!
he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...
ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...
its politics
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Pac got on KMEL radio and talked about how Dre wasn't producing anything and said he's a bomb producer but he takes too long to make the beats and he wasn't going to wait for him and Daz, Johnny J, etc. were all grindin out beats and Dre was nowhere to be found. Pac said he was out with the homies thuggin in the streets representing the label and Dre wasn't doing anything.
Actually, while Pac did mention Dre in his KMEL interview, the stuff you're talking about was from his VIBE interview (later released on CD as "The Last Interview" bundled with the Thug Immortal video. In the KMEL interview, he was mostly talking about how Dre wasn't around during Snoop's trial and how he didn't want to associate with him anymore.
When J-Flexx had written a track to sean barney rubble's 'basic' beat, Dre done what he done to it, and rapped J-Flexx's track word for word.
I was under the impression that J-Flexx wrote it FOR Dr. Dre rather than Dre just jacking his lyrics... assuming that J-Flexx hasn't "been in the game for ten years making rap tunes."
Although the 2 never worked together in his studio again (they done video shoots, TV promo's together on TV networks) 2Pac was able to get a beat from him again quite easily in the summer of 96. He arrived at Can Am with a Dre beat to record the Toss It Up song.
That doesn't make sense. Dre already left Death Row around January or February of 1996, yet he's still supplying Pac with beats in the summer? And as a side note, while they weren't in Dre's studio, the two of them were together at Can-Am at least once. There's a picture of Pac, Dre, Johnny J and Big Syke in the studio.
Dr Dre was never forced to hand over anything, and didn't have to work with 2Pac if he didn't want to. Suge Knight didn't know anything about any beats he had.
Dre has said that when he was leaving Death Row, Suge sent people to his home to get some of the Death Row stuff from him that he had at his home studio. Dre's side of the story was that people showed up at his house, then he made copies of the material then handed them over. Of course the Death Row version (whether from Suge or some internet Death Row groupies) is a bit exaggerated, talking about guys coming with weapons and threatening to beat Dre to a pulp and raiding his home studio.
I don't think Pac was Suge's puppet but I think he felt a loyalty to Suge and Frank Alexander has more or less confirmed that there was never a personal issue between Pac and Dre prior to Dre leaving the label outside of him not being in the studio.
I agree with this. What people don't always consider is that while Pac was his own man and certainly had his own opinions on a lot of matters, he was still grateful to Suge (and essentially Death Row) for having been the ones to make the moves that got him out of prison, so he wanted to prove it on a regular basis. It's no different than returning a favor to someone by doing something for them that you wouldn't normally want to do, but you do it anyway since you owe them. And seeing how it was Suge and not Dre who helped him out, of course he sided with Suge.
And who told him to say all that shit? His owner Suge Knight. Tupac WAS his own man before death row. With Suge he became his servant, slave, lackey, catcher, property, and yes BITCH.
Well, about that, Pac did express his displeasure to Suge about what happened at Club 662 to one of the Wu-Tang guys who got jumped and convinced him to get the chain back (which Pac gave to Method Man) and get the main guy involved to offer whoever it was from the Wu the chance to catch a fade if they wanted to (again communicated through Method Man), though of course they let it go. So it's not like Pac was always siding with Suge regardless of his opinion on the matter.
Snoop didn't patch it up with Dre until he went to Master P's No Limit Records.
Well, there weren't any problems between them, though Snoop had gone on record back in the day about having asked Dre to work on Tha Doggfather, but of course Dre still wanted to keep his distance from Death Row, so he didn't contribute anything toward it but still maintained ties on a friendship level with him.
Again, this is not just me saying this. People who were close to tupac before death row have said the same things repeatedly. I don't remember anyone other than tupac choosing any sides at that time, but even if they did of course they would side with Suge. They were signed to death row. Suge was their slave master at that time.
As it turns out we now know that the only person who was his own man an that label was Dre. Everybody else was just content to suck Suge's cock.
But again, a lot of these people were employed by Suge, who was the guy putting money in their pockets, which let them feed their families. Why leave your job? Dre's departure was basically like any other high-position person at a company leaving because they didn't want to be a part of the organization anymore, but of course Dre already had enough money (along with talent and a name) to be fine without Death Row. And at the same time, it's not like everyone there could just leave Death Row for another label. East Coast labels weren't really working with them, and it's not like they could go to Ruthless. They could go to Priority, but they didn't have the same things to offer as Death Row, which was easily the hottest label at the time.
By the way, the part about Dre and Eazy talking about a NWA reunion is 100% false. Dre never talked to Eazy directly about that supposed reunion; Dre has claimed on multiple occasions he made peace with Eazy when he was unconscious at the hospital.
Unless Dre can read minds, there was no direct contact about that reunion.
You are correct, though I believe one of them (I can't remember who) ran into Ice Cube a while after he dropped No Vaseline and was happy to see them, mentioning the idea of a possible reunion.
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.
truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!
he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...
ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...
its politics
Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.
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You can always count on a thread titled "Pac & Dre" to go at least seven pages. :D
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.
truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!
he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...
ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...
its politics
Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.
Google MK-Ultra...mind control fam...its alot of that shit going on in the industry...Michael Jackson was the shit too...but his handlers wouldn't totally give him creative control either..imo...its more to the story that we ain't seeing....swizz beatz producing chillin?.....don't add up.....on that youtube video Dre didn't even look happy. It's a fuckin shame and a crime to have put somebody else in bondage......I understand bizness is bizness...but whats really going on truthfully? Its some foul shit that goes on in this world....he should say fuck jimmy like he did suge.....let his deal expire and go independant....he would be blackballed fo sho.....but he got money so fuck them haters!!!!
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.
truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!
he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...
ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...
its politics
Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.
u crazy if u think that...they gotta go thru the same legal shit dre n others go thru..cept they aint perfectionist like dre...
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.
truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!
he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...
ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...
its politics
Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.
u crazy if u think that...they gotta go thru the same legal shit dre n others go thru..cept they aint perfectionist like dre...
legal shit? wtf are you talking about? If Puffy wants a feature on his record he gets it.
Actually so does Dre. There's all these artists claiming to have worked with him except the shit never comes out.
Those dudes put out the albums they want to put out. If Dre is being forced to put out a certain sound its cause his ass is playing slave instead of being his own man.
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.
truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!
he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...
ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...
its politics
Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.
u crazy if u think that...they gotta go thru the same legal shit dre n others go thru..cept they aint perfectionist like dre...
legal shit? wtf are you talking about? If Puffy wants a feature on his record he gets it.
Actually so does Dre. There's all these artists claiming to have worked with him except the shit never comes out.
Those dudes put out the albums they want to put out. If Dre is being forced to put out a certain sound its cause his ass is playing slave instead of being his own man.
but he seems to be happy with the current situation
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Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?
That's called having a job. With a boss.
You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.
truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!
he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...
ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...
its politics
Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.
u crazy if u think that...they gotta go thru the same legal shit dre n others go thru..cept they aint perfectionist like dre...
legal shit? wtf are you talking about? If Puffy wants a feature on his record he gets it.
Actually so does Dre. There's all these artists claiming to have worked with him except the shit never comes out.
Those dudes put out the albums they want to put out. If Dre is being forced to put out a certain sound its cause his ass is playing slave instead of being his own man.
but he seems to be happy with the current situation
I haven't said he doesn't. In fact I've been saying this whole time its up to him. He must like being told what to do.
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I haven't said he doesn't. In fact I've been saying this whole time its up to him. He must like being told what to do.
I'd say Dre probably has more creative freedom than most when it comes to major labels. Nobody (not Puffy, not Wayne, not Jay-Z, not 50 Cent) is getting to make music without answering to someone else. I'd venture to believe Dre likes his spot though. Jimmy's letting him take his sweet-ass time making Detox. He's not getting poorer. Let's look at the track record. It's not like he was afraid to move from similiar situations in the past when he didn't like what was going on.
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I haven't said he doesn't. In fact I've been saying this whole time its up to him. He must like being told what to do.
I'd say Dre probably has more creative freedom than most when it comes to major labels. Nobody (not Puffy, not Wayne, not Jay-Z, not 50 Cent) is getting to make music without answering to someone else. I'd venture to believe Dre likes his spot though. Jimmy's letting him take his sweet-ass time making Detox. He's not getting poorer. Let's look at the track record. It's not like he was afraid to move from similiar situations in the past when he didn't like what was going on.
Those were different situations. Eazy was fucking him out of money, Suge was involved with gangbanging. I don't know the exact relationship he has with Jimmy, but everyone here seems to think that Dre's current musical direction is due to Jimmy's influence.
If Snoop can put out an album with country songs, Dre can put out the album he wants. And I'm fairly sure no one was telling Puffy to put out an R&B album. Dre is possibly the only artist who can put out weak disappointing songs and have radio stations playing it, at least until it fails to catch on with the public. If Jimmy is really that controlling to not let Dre do what he wants, he could easily move on to another label. Dre's current music sounds the way it is because either because he wants to do it or someone's telling him to. Take your pick.
And if its because someone's telling him to, that's really due to his lack of being his own man.
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look at the way detox is shaping up...every interscope artist got a spot on that shit lol
dre owes jimmy for bailing his career out multiple times and hence detox is now a promotion vehicle for interscope and beats by dre and nothing more.
its lost all of its integrity as a project as far as im concerned.
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Those were different situations. Eazy was fucking him out of money, Suge was involved with gangbanging. I don't know the exact relationship he has with Jimmy, but everyone here seems to think that Dre's current musical direction is due to Jimmy's influence.
If Snoop can put out an album with country songs, Dre can put out the album he wants. And I'm fairly sure no one was telling Puffy to put out an R&B album. Dre is possibly the only artist who can put out weak disappointing songs and have radio stations playing it, at least until it fails to catch on with the public. If Jimmy is really that controlling to not let Dre do what he wants, he could easily move on to another label. Dre's current music sounds the way it is because either because he wants to do it or someone's telling him to. Take your pick.
And if its because someone's telling him to, that's really due to his lack of being his own man.
What everyone here thinks isn't neccesarily relevant. Popular opinion doesn't equal out to truth, no matter how many people believe it. I think every mainstream artist has to follow a formula. There's nobody on any label that can just put out whatever they want regardless of how the public treats it. I don't think Dre can "put out weak dissapointing songs" and have the radio station play it because radio is a business just like anything else. They need the numbers to support what they're doing or they're out of jobs.
Snoop
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What everyone here thinks isn't neccesarily relevant. Popular opinion doesn't equal out to truth, no matter how many people believe it. I think every mainstream artist has to follow a formula. There's nobody on any label that can just put out whatever they want regardless of how the public treats it. I don't think Dre can "put out weak dissapointing songs" and have the radio station play it because radio is a business just like anything else. They need the numbers to support what they're doing or they're out of jobs.
But it's happened before... Dre put out some weak ass beats, but the songs still got radio play and the albums still moved units because they label it as being Dr. Dre produced... i.e. Family Affair by Mary J. Blige, Hate in Yo Eyes by Mack 10, Break Ya Neck by Busta Rhymes, etc.
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look at the way detox is shaping up...every interscope artist got a spot on that shit lol
dre owes jimmy for bailing his career out multiple times and hence detox is now a promotion vehicle for interscope and beats by dre and nothing more.
its lost all of its integrity as a project as far as im concerned.
This. But you forgot HP, g-shock gatorade and nike. Interscope videos aint nuthin but 3-4 minute adverts.
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right.
i respect the hustle but still man, you cant expect your music is gonna retain its edge and integrity when corporate america has there hands all in the project.
what im hoping is that dre actually does the whookid mixtape and uses the leaks on that and comes out with some new singles for detox, but i doubt it.
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But it's happened before... Dre put out some weak ass beats, but the songs still got radio play and the albums still moved units because they label it as being Dr. Dre produced... i.e. Family Affair by Mary J. Blige, Hate in Yo Eyes by Mack 10, Break Ya Neck by Busta Rhymes, etc.
But the public responded to those records. That's where I'm going with this. Everybody brings different expectations to the table and yes, "mediocre product" can be saved by an established name but not everything Dre touches or puts his name on is a hit. It just doesn't happen like that.
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But you can't just manipulate the buying public overnight like that. If something is hot, it's hot. Gangsta rap had basically peaked. That business about the West outselling the East nearly twice over sounds a little suspect. Who besides Pac and Death Row was selling like that? Where's the numbers on this one?
Check the "Welcome To Death Row" DVD they even talk about the 2:1 sales advantage the West was havin over the East. That advantage was from 92-97 during the West's dominance when you had 2Pac, Snoop, Dre, Too Short, Ice Cube, E-40, Luniz, WSCG, Dogg Pound, Mack 10 solo albums, Warren G, DJ Quik, Twinz, Foesum, Dove Shack, Eazy-E, Ant Banks, Richie Rich, The Outlawz, etc. These guys were all pumpin out big time numbers, and to give you an idea how well the West sold: The Twinz went Gold on "Conversation" and to compare that to today's numbers that Twinz album outsold Snoop's "Malice In Wonderland" by twice as many units. That's how hot the West was during that era.
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U're trippin about Twinz, Foesum and DOve Shack. Dudes had major deals but their albums all flopped commercially-wise. and LOL Conversation NEVER went gold, I doubt it even reached 300,000. Foesum were as local as possible and the Dove Shack didn't score really big. Richie Rich was on Def Jam, he never even went gold. The Outlawz are not from the West, except for Young Noble and Syke (if you consider him part of the outlawz).
the west (and the south too actually) enjoyed their fair share of success, Gangsta rap and the gangsta image was hype through music and films. i think they outsold the east until 97 thanks mainly to the NWA legacy (Ruthless, Death Row, Cube, WSCG) and Too Short who was going platinum album after album. then, with No Way Out, Life After Death, Jay-Z's slew of albums, the east really took over and the South began really rising too with Master P (New Orleans period), Cash Money, 3-6-Mafia etc.
And it's not fair to compare today's sales with the 90's. the standards aren't the same. the internet and the recession changed the game. in the 90's an album like Recovery would have done the same numbers as a TLC album, 10x plat easily. and an album like Malice would have done platinum. if you take an album like Big Mike's Somethin' Serious or The Click's Game Related which both went gold. These albums would never go gold in these times and days.
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U're trippin about Twinz, Foesum and DOve Shack. Dudes had major deals but their albums all flopped commercially-wise. and LOL Conversation NEVER went gold, I doubt it even reached 300,000. Foesum were as local as possible and the Dove Shack didn't score really big. Richie Rich was on Def Jam, he never even went gold. The Outlawz are not from the West, except for Young Noble and Syke (if you consider him part of the outlawz)
then, with No Way Out, Life After Death, Jay-Z's slew of albums, the east really took over and the South began really rising too with Master P (New Orleans period), Cash Money, 3-6-Mafia etc.
I think you're underestimating the West prime I remember reading on two different sites how the Twinz "Conversation" was GOLD shit they had two hit singles "Round and Round" and "Eastside LB" plus they had Warren G pushin the album in his prime. I think you underestimate the West by sayin they couldn't do those numbers today, they were droppin platinum and gold records all around. The West was so huge you had artists like Domino, South Central Cartel, Kausion, MC Eiht, CMW, Ahmad, and others all sellin on top of the ones we both talked about it, and how could we both leave Coolio out that dude sold millions of records?
Jay-Z had 2 solo albums out that didn't sell but all of a sudden he got all the attention after the passing of Notorious B.I.G. Jay-Z even said on his record "Too much West Coast dick lickin" on '22 Two's' cause the West was so huge.
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Check the "Welcome To Death Row" DVD they even talk about the 2:1 sales advantage the West was havin over the East. That advantage was from 92-97 during the West's dominance when you had 2Pac, Snoop, Dre, Too Short, Ice Cube, E-40, Luniz, WSCG, Dogg Pound, Mack 10 solo albums, Warren G, DJ Quik, Twinz, Foesum, Dove Shack, Eazy-E, Ant Banks, Richie Rich, The Outlawz, etc. These guys were all pumpin out big time numbers, and to give you an idea how well the West sold: The Twinz went Gold on "Conversation" and to compare that to today's numbers that Twinz album outsold Snoop's "Malice In Wonderland" by twice as many units. That's how hot the West was during that era.
I have that DVD seen it a bunch of times but to just buy some exaggarated number that someone throws out in an interview as gospel is kind of reaching. I'm not denying that the West Coast was hot at that point. It's kind of undeniable but a lot of it was directly connected to Death Row, not the coast as a whole. But Death Row's downfall on the charts was easy to see. With Pac dead, Dre no longer playing a creative hand, Snoop on the way out, and Suge in prison, there was really nothing to sell the company anymore. It had its fanbase but as a brand, the names and faces that people connected to it were not a part of it anymore. You can push all these new artists all you want but you need something familiar to put the whole thing together. Snoop didn't become a star overnight. It took him being the featured artist on Deep Cover, being featured on all the singles and videos for The Chronic, have him making live performances with Dre at all the award shows, to really establish him as the "next big thing". Even then you had Dre popping it up in the video-song for "What's My Name" with his little "Rat-Tat-Tat-Tat" cameo to keep that connection going. The same way he did his "Slim Shady you a basehead" line for Em's intro. When Biggie died, Puffy was already exposed for so many years from showing up in videos and on magazine covers with Biggie and was already deep into his own plans for a solo career that he was able to keep his label afloat by moving into Biggie's spot and building his roster around that. Death Row didn't have that. When Pac came in, all the plans that they had with Rage and Dogg Pound were sidetracked so they could get Tupac out there and from a business position, it was probably the right move. But they built him up like crazy and when he died, there was no new star in the waiting who could step in. Five years is a long time to be on top. It was far less an elaborate plot by the media to destroy them as it was that they didn't have anything to follow up what they already built. There were talented guys over there but the reason "Chronic 2000" and "Dr. Dre Presents The Aftermath" both had average sales is because to anybody that's not a hardcore fan, you look at the guest list and the majority of the people on there you've never heard of. Most non-Death Row fans aren't gonna blow $25 on a double CD with two Tupac songs that aren't being promoted. The movie soundtracks had the movies to sell them. Everything else was just counted on to get its own buzz.
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Check the "Welcome To Death Row" DVD they even talk about the 2:1 sales advantage the West was havin over the East. That advantage was from 92-97 during the West's dominance when you had 2Pac, Snoop, Dre, Too Short, Ice Cube, E-40, Luniz, WSCG, Dogg Pound, Mack 10 solo albums, Warren G, DJ Quik, Twinz, Foesum, Dove Shack, Eazy-E, Ant Banks, Richie Rich, The Outlawz, etc. These guys were all pumpin out big time numbers, and to give you an idea how well the West sold: The Twinz went Gold on "Conversation" and to compare that to today's numbers that Twinz album outsold Snoop's "Malice In Wonderland" by twice as many units. That's how hot the West was during that era.
I have that DVD seen it a bunch of times but to just buy some exaggarated number that someone throws out in an interview as gospel is kind of reaching. I'm not denying that the West Coast was hot at that point. It's kind of undeniable but a lot of it was directly connected to Death Row, not the coast as a whole. But Death Row's downfall on the charts was easy to see. With Pac dead, Dre no longer playing a creative hand, Snoop on the way out, and Suge in prison, there was really nothing to sell the company anymore. It had its fanbase but as a brand, the names and faces that people connected to it were not a part of it anymore. You can push all these new artists all you want but you need something familiar to put the whole thing together. Snoop didn't become a star overnight. It took him being the featured artist on Deep Cover, being featured on all the singles and videos for The Chronic, have him making live performances with Dre at all the award shows, to really establish him as the "next big thing". Even then you had Dre popping it up in the video-song for "What's My Name" with his little "Rat-Tat-Tat-Tat" cameo to keep that connection going. The same way he did his "Slim Shady you a basehead" line for Em's intro. When Biggie died, Puffy was already exposed for so many years from showing up in videos and on magazine covers with Biggie and was already deep into his own plans for a solo career that he was able to keep his label afloat by moving into Biggie's spot and building his roster around that. Death Row didn't have that. When Pac came in, all the plans that they had with Rage and Dogg Pound were sidetracked so they could get Tupac out there and from a business position, it was probably the right move. But they built him up like crazy and when he died, there was no new star in the waiting who could step in. Five years is a long time to be on top. It was far less an elaborate plot by the media to destroy them as it was that they didn't have anything to follow up what they already built. There were talented guys over there but the reason "Chronic 2000" and "Dr. Dre Presents The Aftermath" both had average sales is because to anybody that's not a hardcore fan, you look at the guest list and the majority of the people on there you've never heard of. Most non-Death Row fans aren't gonna blow $25 on a double CD with two Tupac songs that aren't being promoted. The movie soundtracks had the movies to sell them. Everything else was just counted on to get its own buzz.
Good post
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I think you're underestimating the West prime I remember reading on two different sites how the Twinz "Conversation" was GOLD shit they had two hit singles "Round and Round" and "Eastside LB" plus they had Warren G pushin the album in his prime. I think you underestimate the West by sayin they couldn't do those numbers today, they were droppin platinum and gold records all around. The West was so huge you had artists like Domino, South Central Cartel, Kausion, MC Eiht, CMW, Ahmad, and others all sellin on top of the ones we both talked about it, and how could we both leave Coolio out that dude sold millions of records?
Jay-Z had 2 solo albums out that didn't sell but all of a sudden he got all the attention after the passing of Notorious B.I.G. Jay-Z even said on his record "Too much West Coast dick lickin" on '22 Two's' cause the West was so huge.
i'm not underestimating anything, i never said the west wasn't hype at the timel. but it's unrealistic to think albums that went gold yesterday would go gold with today's standards. an album like Bun B''s TrillOG would have gone at least gold in the 90's, so far it has moved about 150,000 which is a very good number for today. Malice In Wonderland did 300,000 and it was still the 6th highest selling rap album of the year when in the 90's even a gold record wouldn't secure you the sixth spot. all i'm sayin is that you seem to exaggerate a lot about your favorite artists' sales and you take numbers you read on fansites for granted. Conversation certainly didn't go gold. South Central were rather big, but never sold much (according to Prode'je, N Gatz We Truss sold 600 k, but I highly doubt that and i've never seen any official source saying it went gold). Kausion were local as fuck, nobody outside us westcoast stans remembers them today, they must have sold 100,000 copies max of South Central Los Skanless (very good album nonetheless).
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i'm not underestimating anything, i never said the west wasn't hype at the timel. but it's unrealistic to think albums that went gold yesterday would go gold with today's standards. an album like Bun B''s TrillOG would have gone at least gold in the 90's, so far it has moved about 150,000 which is a very good number for today. Malice In Wonderland did 300,000 and it was still the 6th highest selling rap album of the year when in the 90's even a gold record wouldn't secure you the sixth spot. all i'm sayin is that you seem to exaggerate a lot about your favorite artists' sales and you take numbers you read on fansites for granted. Conversation certainly didn't go gold. South Central were rather big, but never sold much (according to Prode'je, N Gatz We Truss sold 600 k, but I highly doubt that and i've never seen any official source saying it went gold). Kausion were local as fuck, nobody outside us westcoast stans remembers them today, they must have sold 100,000 copies max of South Central Los Skanless (very good album nonetheless).
Yeah, I kind of read some of what dude is saying and wonder if he was even into music back then because his recollection of events seems to clash to with what was real. Death Row was huge and really gave the West a shot in the arm but it's not like every artist that came out of California in the 90's was going platinum and getting major love from the radio and MTV.
I think you underestimate the West by sayin they couldn't do those numbers today, they were droppin platinum and gold records all around.
You're talking about a different time altogether. A good portion of those platinum and gold sales came from people buying audio tapes of albums to play in their boombox or their car's tape deck. If the West had the type of sales potential, these major labels would be all over it.
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I think you're underestimating the West prime I remember reading on two different sites how the Twinz "Conversation" was GOLD shit they had two hit singles "Round and Round" and "Eastside LB" plus they had Warren G pushin the album in his prime. I think you underestimate the West by sayin they couldn't do those numbers today, they were droppin platinum and gold records all around. The West was so huge you had artists like Domino, South Central Cartel, Kausion, MC Eiht, CMW, Ahmad, and others all sellin on top of the ones we both talked about it, and how could we both leave Coolio out that dude sold millions of records?
Jay-Z had 2 solo albums out that didn't sell but all of a sudden he got all the attention after the passing of Notorious B.I.G. Jay-Z even said on his record "Too much West Coast dick lickin" on '22 Two's' cause the West was so huge.
i'm not underestimating anything, i never said the west wasn't hype at the timel. but it's unrealistic to think albums that went gold yesterday would go gold with today's standards. an album like Bun B''s TrillOG would have gone at least gold in the 90's, so far it has moved about 150,000 which is a very good number for today. Malice In Wonderland did 300,000 and it was still the 6th highest selling rap album of the year when in the 90's even a gold record wouldn't secure you the sixth spot. all i'm sayin is that you seem to exaggerate a lot about your favorite artists' sales and you take numbers you read on fansites for granted. Conversation certainly didn't go gold. South Central were rather big, but never sold much (according to Prode'je, N Gatz We Truss sold 600 k, but I highly doubt that and i've never seen any official source saying it went gold). Kausion were local as fuck, nobody outside us westcoast stans remembers them today, they must have sold 100,000 copies max of South Central Los Skanless (very good album nonetheless).
Where are you getting these sales numbers?
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i'm only guessing for kausion and the twinz. bun-b has sold actually 129k, i read it here : http://thecustomblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/e40sales_Page_1.jpg. as for south central cartel, if i'm not mistaken, i read in an old prodeje interview that n gatz we truss had done 600k, but i never found any other source and the RIAA official website doesn't list it in its gold and platinum catalogue
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i'm only guessing for kausion and the twinz. bun-b has sold actually 129k, i read it here : http://thecustomblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/e40sales_Page_1.jpg. as for south central cartel, if i'm not mistaken, i read in an old prodeje interview that n gatz we truss had done 600k, but i never found any other source and the RIAA official website doesn't list it in its gold and platinum catalogue
for Malice?
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I think you're underestimating the West prime I remember reading on two different sites how the Twinz "Conversation" was GOLD shit they had two hit singles "Round and Round" and "Eastside LB" plus they had Warren G pushin the album in his prime. I think you underestimate the West by sayin they couldn't do those numbers today, they were droppin platinum and gold records all around. The West was so huge you had artists like Domino, South Central Cartel, Kausion, MC Eiht, CMW, Ahmad, and others all sellin on top of the ones we both talked about it, and how could we both leave Coolio out that dude sold millions of records?
Jay-Z had 2 solo albums out that didn't sell but all of a sudden he got all the attention after the passing of Notorious B.I.G. Jay-Z even said on his record "Too much West Coast dick lickin" on '22 Two's' cause the West was so huge.
i'm not underestimating anything, i never said the west wasn't hype at the timel. but it's unrealistic to think albums that went gold yesterday would go gold with today's standards. an album like Bun B''s TrillOG would have gone at least gold in the 90's, so far it has moved about 150,000 which is a very good number for today. Malice In Wonderland did 300,000 and it was still the 6th highest selling rap album of the year when in the 90's even a gold record wouldn't secure you the sixth spot. all i'm sayin is that you seem to exaggerate a lot about your favorite artists' sales and you take numbers you read on fansites for granted. Conversation certainly didn't go gold. South Central were rather big, but never sold much (according to Prode'je, N Gatz We Truss sold 600 k, but I highly doubt that and i've never seen any official source saying it went gold). Kausion were local as fuck, nobody outside us westcoast stans remembers them today, they must have sold 100,000 copies max of South Central Los Skanless (very good album nonetheless).
according to a post here several months ago N Gatz We Trust sold 30 thousand copies lol
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i'm only guessing for kausion and the twinz. bun-b has sold actually 129k, i read it here : http://thecustomblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/e40sales_Page_1.jpg. as for south central cartel, if i'm not mistaken, i read in an old prodeje interview that n gatz we truss had done 600k, but i never found any other source and the RIAA official website doesn't list it in its gold and platinum catalogue
A Gold album doesn't have to be certified by the RIAA. For example, Suge said those Chronic and Doggystyle albums sold more than what the RIAA has on them and also Kurupt's Tha Streetz Iz A Mutha is Gold but it's not certified. If you don't send the paperwork in to the RIAA then it's not going to be certified and you have to keep getting it recertified as the album sells over time by sending in more paperwork. Remember, Gold means 500k units, it doesn't mean the RIAA has to certify it, it just has to scan 500,000 units at stores and the internet to be Gold. The RIAA is one organization, they aren't the definitive authority.
Also, according to wn.com: "....G Funk Era, the Twinz released their own debut album Conversation in 1995. .... It peaked at #3 on the Billboard charts and earned gold record status ..."
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the moms and pops record stores didnt have soundscans...at least not the one i worked at for years.
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the moms and pops record stores didnt have soundscans...at least not the one i worked at for years.
They probably did. You just weren't aware of it.
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how can they calculate first week sales when we was sellin them shits two weeks before release dates?
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how can they calculate first week sales when we was sellin them shits two weeks before release dates?
You're still getting your inventory from the label/distributor. They're still dispensing royalties to all the neccessary parties. Think about it like any retail situation. You've already paid for the product and had it delivered. If you put it on the floor ahead of street date, you're still ordering from the same people when you run out. I don't know the exact specifics behind it but I'm guessing if those second-week orders come in and they're shipping far less, the equation adds up to inventory still sitting on the shelf.
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A Gold album doesn't have to be certified by the RIAA. For example, Suge said those Chronic and Doggystyle albums sold more than what the RIAA has on them and also Kurupt's Tha Streetz Iz A Mutha is Gold but it's not certified. If you don't send the paperwork in to the RIAA then it's not going to be certified and you have to keep getting it recertified as the album sells over time by sending in more paperwork. Remember, Gold means 500k units, it doesn't mean the RIAA has to certify it, it just has to scan 500,000 units at stores and the internet to be Gold. The RIAA is one organization, they aren't the definitive authority.
That is incorrect.
The RIAA is the organization who officially certifies an album as being gold, platinum or multi-platinum. You are right about them not doing certifications unless you request it (which of course involves an application and a fee), then they track down the exact sales numbers. However, for an album to be certified, it doesn't necessary refer to over-the-counter sales (which is what SoundScan is), as it refers to the units ordered and shipped from the distributor to whatever stores. So albums that are sitting on retail shelves count toward RIAA certifications. But gold, platinum and multi-platinum are certifications by the RIAA, as no one else really does it, though sometimes larger numbers are used if the record label things that they've reached a certain number, typically if the certification is pending but they are putting out a press release or something and want to talk about an album's success. Similarly, the Death Row Greatest Hits had a few of the Death Row albums with higher numbers than what the RIAA reported, but it's because Death Row probably hadn't requested an RIAA update.