West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: M Dogg™ on March 02, 2003, 10:45:41 AM
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Lewis would beat Ali 'cause he was a bigger heavyweight, listening to all them boxing experts say that little Heavyweights (modern era) can't beat the Super-Heaveyweights (post-modern era), well look at Roy Jones vs. Johnny Ruiz, and I say fuck you, you just got a dick in your mouth after that. Ladies and Gentlemen, Roy Jones proved it's not the size of a fighter, but heart and skillz. In the tradition of Ali, Roy Jones shooked the world, made history, and proved the Modern era Heavyweight ain't over yet. They actually maybe the greatest era of Heavyweights ever.
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lol@lewis beatin ali..........man i think ppl got nerve to even say that, specailly comin from some experts..........................theres only one nigga ali and thats that
peace
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i thought roy jones said he was only going to do this one heavyweight fight.
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lenox lewis is not john ruiz....not even close...and yes i (along with other boxing experts) will say lenox lewis would defeat ali one on one...even SI noted that ali was one of the most overrated atheletes ever(i agree 100%)....lewis is too big, and his jab would be too much for ali...who had tons of trouble with joe fraziers jab...and you cant say i havent seen ali fights cause ive seen tons of them on espn classic....(many of them wich he loses)...i think cashes clay did many other things(politcal infuences) that made him stand out more...and lenox lewis doesnt get a lot of publicity and many havent seen what a skilled boxer he really is. you get a lot of people living in the past...that swear athletes of yesterday would beat the athletes of today...but when the athletes of today are bigger, stonger, faster and more skilled than they were 30 years ago...and would make a mismatch...just like if we could take a time machine and send lennox lewis to fight cashes clay...it would be a mismatch
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LMAO... he only gots 5 loses, one to Frazier, the others his over 37 so come one now. Ken Norton, Leon Spinks, Larry Holmes, I mean they are all great fights, but consider Ali won his first title in 64, and all those fights came after '78, Lewis won his first title in '93, and that likes his still fighting in '07, which in 4 years, he'll be old as shit, and it's really not about age, but the punched you take. (after all, Ali had a very long career, and look at him, were as George Foreman fought when he was very old, but not in many fights.) So those loses were not even relievent. And the too big theory. Size doesn't matter, skill and speed does if the smaller person is a Roy Jones. And Lewis ain't that fast, he gots a good jab, and a good right to follow, not much. I've been watching Lewis for along time, Ali would beat him, 'cause I've watched a lot of Ali. Don't believe the media hype, Ali was the greatest, no questions asked. Don't believe it, ask him... LMAO.
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One phrase...
Rope a Dope Trick
Ali may not be the greatest-Sugar Ray Leonard is also in there, as is Sugar Ray WhateverHisNameIs, and Foreman and Frazier weren't bad...
But Lewis, though a good boxer, is nowhere close.
Ali, at first relied on speed. When he got older, he got incredibly tough. That's why rope a dope worked.
Also, it works on a scale. Lewis takes legal steroids, Ali didn't. Lewis would be artificially stronger.
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::) ...we could debate this for weeks...but you bring up a good point...this is the greatest era of heavyweights...its just the public doesnt cover boxing like it used to (like when cashes clay was fighting)...and lenox lewis is by far the best heavyweight...and its not just his size...its his skill(lenox lewis not fast????) and technical fighting ability....his reach is tremendous...and his jab is the best ever...and his power....the only way anyone will ever have a chance against him is with one punch power(his two looses were one punch wonders)....i think cashes clay was a great fighter...but not even close to be the best(his politcal influences gave him tons of coverage and him constantly running at the mouth)....5 loses are 5 loses...and he was out boxed in those fights...and in only the larry holmes fight did i think he was too old...lenox lewis is 37 now...and i dont see him getting mopped up by anyone because of his age...and seeing cashes clay now...who do you think go the best of the ali-frazier fights???.....i'm not really even a fan of lenox lewis... but he doesnt get the respect he deserves...boxing isnt nearly as popular as it once was.....30 years ago boxing was the second biggest sport(baseball#1)...m-dogg..i do respect your opinions but i just think you're living in the past and wont except that todays athletes are superior to that of 30 years ago
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One phrase...
Rope a Dope Trick
Ali may not be the greatest-Sugar Ray Leonard is also in there, as is Sugar Ray WhateverHisNameIs, and Foreman and Frazier weren't bad...
But Lewis, though a good boxer, is nowhere close.
Ali, at first relied on speed. When he got older, he got incredibly tough. That's why rope a dope worked.
Also, it works on a scale. Lewis takes legal steroids, Ali didn't. Lewis would be artificially stronger.
legal steriods???....you really have no idea what you are talking about do you....what do you mean prohoromones, creatine, ephedrine ::)...these are not steriods or is anything on the market now unless you get them illegally....and you forgot to point out that 30 years ago d-bol, deca and other currently illegal substances where legal and where used by athletes in many many sports, and where much much more potent drugs compared to the sporting supplements used today...im not saying cashes clay used them....but he could have and no one would have known
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You mix dumb insults with normal conversation well. Your training is complete, my dumb, I mean young, apprentice.
And yeah, he could have used them, but he was a Muslim most of his career. He went to prison and probably got raped for his beliefs, why would he break them to win a dumb boxing match?
Anyways, Rocky Marciana is the greatest.
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yes we agree marciano is the greatest
and as i thought you know nothing about sports nutrition or steriods
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Tha funny thing is, Roy Jones would beat the SHIT out of Ali!
Theres no discountin who Ali is, or what Ali has done. And if anyone refers to him as the Greatest of All Time, i probably wouldnt argue with them. But like ive said a million times in other posts...athletes, simply get better as time goes on. Athletes now, are FAR more athletic and skilled then athletes 30 yrs ago. Athletes 30 yrs from now, will be far more athletic then those now. Itz a fact, and it doesnt take away from who those past athletes were, or what they did. Athlete might of been the Greatest for his time, but u cant compare him to boxers of our generation. Different breed. The only past Heavyweight from that Generation, that i see possibly holding a title in this era, is Foreman. And thats based solely on his power. Today they are strong, AND quik sumtimes. But at least he had the power to knock anyone out. Ali would get dropped by Tyson in his prime, i believe Holyfield in his prime would beat him, and Lewis now, would probably beat him. Not to mention Jones, i think Jones has as much power as Ali, but is honestly FAR quicker. I luv Ali, but this IS a new era.
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and as i thought you know nothing about sports nutrition or steriods
Surely "and there I was thinking you knew nothing about sports nutrition or steroids"? Shurely shome mishtake?
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Anyways, Rocky Marciana is the greatest.
lol this reminds me of that scene in Coming to America where they in the barber shop discussin Boxing, and the white dood brings up Rocky Marciano
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Tha funny thing is, Roy Jones would beat the SHIT out of Ali!
Theres no discountin who Ali is, or what Ali has done. And if anyone refers to him as the Greatest of All Time, i probably wouldnt argue with them. But like ive said a million times in other posts...athletes, simply get better as time goes on. Athletes now, are FAR more athletic and skilled then athletes 30 yrs ago. Athletes 30 yrs from now, will be far more athletic then those now. Itz a fact, and it doesnt take away from who those past athletes were, or what they did. Athlete might of been the Greatest for his time, but u cant compare him to boxers of our generation. Different breed. The only past Heavyweight from that Generation, that i see possibly holding a title in this era, is Foreman. And thats based solely on his power. Today they are strong, AND quik sumtimes. But at least he had the power to knock anyone out. Ali would get dropped by Tyson in his prime, i believe Holyfield in his prime would beat him, and Lewis now, would probably beat him. Not to mention Jones, i think Jones has as much power as Ali, but is honestly FAR quicker. I luv Ali, but this IS a new era.
there is a god....really finally someone with a little knowledge of sports....and who is'nt stuck in the past....and i agree that roy jones, tyson in his prim, and maybe hoylfield too would make ali look out classed....really he struggled against joe frazier... people like m-dogg are the people that will say...arnold palmer is a better golfer than tigger woods or the 72 dolpins could beat any team from this era...really its evolution...get with the 21 centurty
oh and i've been reading and heard on some talk shows that people are starting to consider roy jones as the greatest fighter ever!!! really he's never lost(griffen faked getting hit getting jones dq'd) went through 4 divisioins beating everydody...not only that he would kick cashes clays ass
marcian had the greatest career...he wouldnt stand a chance against some middle weight of today...let alone the heavyweights
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oh and i've been reading and heard on some talk shows that people are starting to consider roy jones as the greatest fighter ever!!!
not surprised. I mean, whats the argument against him? Hes had no real losses. And theres been no DOWN times in his career. Damn near every boxer has had a moment where they slipped, except Marciano. Roy has ran thru every single boxer put in front of him (fuk Griffin, everyone knows that way trash). Hes moved up to Heavyweight, theres no further weight class to move up to. What else does he have to do? He's proven to be far too powerful for anyone in his weight class, and far too quik for anyone bigger then him. And honestly, his power is VERY underrated. I think he could knockout alot of Heavyweights in the game right now. Remember, a powerful punch has the same impact as a quick punch. U typically dont get knocked out by the punch u SEE coming. Roy Jones hits u from angles that u dont expect, and u dont see. Fighting Lewis is maybe a stretch, for size reasons. BUT, Lewis IMO has a glass jaw...and i wouldnt be surprised if Jones could catch him wit a quik counter punch and drop him. Tyson vs Jones would probably be the biggest pay per view ever. But i dont know what Jones would gain by fighting Tyson, except another pay day. But there styles would make for a GREAT fight probably. Holyfield, shit...this used to be my favorite boxer...since he very first became a heavyweight. But honestly, i think its his time to retire. Whatever happens from now on, id put Jones in the top 4 fighters of all time...and quite possibly number 1. Everything iz up for debate.
BTW, i still think the most dangerous Heavyweight to Lewis's title...is Vladimir Klitzko (spelling lol). I dunno how many of yall seen him fight, he's a fukin machine! I mean, Ray Mercer is old and his career is on the decline...but he had NEVER been knocked down by a punch to the head in his whole career. Not by Tyson, not by anyone...until Klitzko really pounded him. It looked like Rocky 4 when Ivan Drago faught Apollo Creed lol. Crazy shit.
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Shit... I would say the 2003 Bengals would handle the '72 Dolphines... Barry Bonds would out slug Hank Aaron, and Shaq would kill Wilt. All true, but Ali lose, I can't see it in his prime. He had something I've only seen in Jordan, that's greatness. Lewis would whip the shit out of Frazier, Norton, Holmes, shit, Tua would, but Ali is something different. Joe Luis, the first greatest of all times would get beat bad. But Ali was just that damn great. Roy, that would be a great fight. I ain't arguing past vs. present, I think the present would win, but nothing beats greatness, a person who will die before he loses. Someone that will play very sick, fight through a broken jaw and win (Ali did that). Modern days can beat old days, but no one can beat greatness. Greatness ages, like Jordan and Ali, but greatness last along time, and greatness is forever remembered. Only two athletes I think are great, and at anytime, no one can beat them.
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Shit... I would say the 2003 Bengals would handle the '72 Dolphines... Barry Bonds would out slug Hank Aaron, and Shaq would kill Wilt. All true, but Ali lose, I can't see it in his prime.
didnt Frazier beat him?
As for tha whole "greatness" thing. True he was great, but the great can be beatin too. EVERYONE has some out there, better then them. EVERYONE. Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time, but guess what...in 30 yrs there will be someone better. As hard, or for some, even impossible to imagine....its true. No one EVER thought theres be a better player then Babe Ruth. No one ever thought thered be a better runner then Walter Payton. No one ever thought thered be a Professional Golfer that was black, let alone...be the best in the world, maybe the best ever. No one ever thought there would be a better boxer then Joe Louis, then came Ali. People, in this area...always improve. U could say Ali was the greatest boxer ever, for his time in history. But Ali wouldnt go the distance with todays fighters.
Remember, the older fighters paved the way...in more ways then one. The reason newer generation fighters/players (depending on what sport) are always better then the past fighters/players...is because they have the chance to learn from the past. They can incorporate that things that made those PAST fighters great, as well as use modern technology to train...and improve upon what past fighters did.
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When someone takes an old player, and ranks them with modern players, and says they can beat them, what they are saying is, is that player/fighter, had something that will not let them lose until they are older. When Ali lost to Frazier, he had just cameback from along lay off, and wasn't ready to fight the heavyweight champion of the world. But, he did a great job, and never gave up. Ali didn't lose again for years. Lewis is so big, but he mainly jabs and then sets up for his right hand. If I've seen a lot of Ali fights, then I've too many Lewis fights. He uses his reach, his ring smarts, and his power to over wealm people. David Tua, goood power punch, couldn't get through, Mike Tyson, the same, Holyfield, was a thinker but Lewis was too big. Style is everything, and Lewis style is perfect for beating the modern era fighters of the Frazier, Ali, Tyson, Holyfield generation. The problem is, is that Ali is the greatest. Ali beat the Fraziers, the Foremans, the Listons, even Michael Spinks, the 70's version of Roy Jones. Ali's style was fast, hand speed of a middleweight, foot speed of welterweight, detremation of a true champion, and unlike Lewis, a chin that wouldn't fall, even when broken. Ali talked big, and backed it up. Ask Lewis, he'll tell you Ali was the greatest. Ask any boxer, and they'll tell you, because if Ali was around today, he would not allow himself to lose, he'll think of something. Rope-a-dope was thought up of in the ring against a bigger, more powerful, and skillful George Foreman. Ali was scared of people, yeah, but then he would take that fear, and beat the shit out of someone. He was the most skilled heavyweight that ever lived.
As for Roy, I too think we are looking at the greatest pound for pound fighter ever. Whatever doubt I had before, he disproved it beating a man 30 pounds heavier. Roy has to be the greatest pound per pound. If him at 199, vs. Ali at 215, I think it would be the greatest fight see in the heavyweight division ever. Roy is just too damn good. Ali though is too damn great, 'cause Roy wouldn't get hit, Ali is fast enought to catch him. Ali was fast as shit, and punched Liston in .3 seconds. A punch that couldn't be seen unless you slow the tape down. Ali was just damn fast, faster than any boxer today still. Roy is close though, and Roy as a heavyweight vs. a young Ali, I would pay $100 for that pay-per-view. Lewis, well, he will have his place in history, but next to Ali, not ever, he ain't got greatness, his just very good, which is better than Tyson, Holmes, Spinks, even Frazier. but greatness is something different. Like Jordan changing his style to a mare shooting base game to win after being the most athletic, or Ali changing to a more flat footed slugger after losing speed. Greatness changes, Greatness can win at any era. Only two athletes I think were great, and Payton, Brown, and Montana are close, but only two I think were just great. Maybe Montana, that's to be seen what else comes.
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Roy is just too damn good. Ali though is too damn great, 'cause Roy wouldn't get hit, Ali is fast enought to catch him. Ali was fast as shit, and punched Liston in .3 seconds. A punch that couldn't be seen unless you slow the tape down.
theres no way in the world Ali could catch up to Jones. Ali was a quick heavyweight, yes....for HIS time. Not this one. As for that Liston punch....lol@ Liston taking a dive.
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Roy is just too damn good. Ali though is too damn great, 'cause Roy wouldn't get hit, Ali is fast enought to catch him. Ali was fast as shit, and punched Liston in .3 seconds. A punch that couldn't be seen unless you slow the tape down.
theres no way in the world Ali could catch up to Jones. Ali was a quick heavyweight, yes....for HIS time. Not this one. As for that Liston punch....lol@ Liston taking a dive.
Son, Now I Know you just talking... lol... NIK.
Anyways, Ali was fast as hell, fastest heavyweight ever, I guess next to Roy now. But Ali wouldn't lose. Roy's never took a hit. Hell, he has just trashed all his opponites. Ali had middleweight hand speed, even for todays fighters. I think Ali takes that fight, barely, 'cause Roy has what Ali had, too much pride. That's it, pride, who wants it more. That's who wins, and Ali and Jordan are the only two that are on top of that.
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::) ...we could debate this for weeks...but you bring up a good point...this is the greatest era of heavyweights...
SNIP
If you believe that than I pity you and the rest of your offspring.
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Son, Now I Know you just talking... lol... NIK.
Anyways, Ali was fast as hell, fastest heavyweight ever, I guess next to Roy now. But Ali wouldn't lose. Roy's never took a hit. Hell, he has just trashed all his opponites. Ali had middleweight hand speed, even for todays fighters. I think Ali takes that fight, barely, 'cause Roy has what Ali had, too much pride. That's it, pride, who wants it more. That's who wins, and Ali and Jordan are the only two that are on top of that.
so u honestly dont believe that athletes get better over time? Even professional athletes will admit that. Evander talked about it before in an interview. When asked how he would compare to Ali...he said, "id beat him". It sounded crazy to some of the people in tha audience at first, but when he went on to explain, everybody understood. Not that he's "better" then Ali for HIS time. But he went on to explain, that training methods just improve. Fighters learn from past fighters. And ALWAYS improve. He didnt jus say, that he's better then Ali. But that, 20 yrs from now...someone else will be better then him, or Tyson, or whoever. It ALWAYS happens. Ali might have done the most for the sport of boxing (still up for debate, Joe Louis), but that doesnt change the fact that he couldnt beat heavyweights today, including Roy Jones.
I know youve watched old clips of NBA games right? Games back when shit was still black and white on tha tv lol. Some of the GREATest players of all time, didnt even dribble the ball with their left. I mean, shit that 4 yr olds do today! U think Basketball is the only sport where this happens? Hell naw. Athletes get bigger, faster, and more skilled. Fact.
Ali was great, maybe the title "Greatest of all Time" fits him. But that doesnt change the fact that theres no way he'd win in todays era. Even the great Middleweights, etc. that we used to have, (Sugar Ray, Hagler, Tommy Hearns, etc) would git KO'd by sum1 like Roy Jones (in his lighter dayz), or many other people now.
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I'm not debating old vs. new. Older athletes don't have the training and steriods... I mean medical advances of today. Shit, it would be a whip out for new athletes to beat on old onces. But Ali was in a class in his own... IMO. He stood for more to boxing than anyone, and he battled giants (Foreman, who was winning as an old man still), warriors (Holmes, who still beats on younger people 'till he was like 47) and in his day, the old legands (beat the shit out of Floyd Paterson). Ali was a legand, he was great, he had a versital fighting still. Never has anyone made up for lack of speed and size like Ali did in his older days, when he was wahed up and still winning. Andas I said, Roy is going to that level. Roy is the greatest pound per pound fighter ever. Better than Sugar Ray Robinson, Lenard, (this is a Mexican saying this so you know it must be true) Julio Caeser Chavez, De La Hoya, anyone. Roy is one of the greatest. He beat Hopkins, and everyone else. Roy and Ali are in the same class. That's a given. Lewis is up there by just size, but not skill. His style is too plain, jab and set up for the right. Can beat Tyson, Frazier, Holyfield, and Liston. No questions aske, Lewis is the most physically dominating champion ever. But who would win a one on one game, Shaq or Jordan, both in there prime. Or would you draft Joe Montana or Jeff George. George was physically dominate of Montana in every catigory. I agree, present beats the past. But as I said, Greatness beats all.
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I'm not debating old vs. new. Older athletes don't have the training and steriods... I mean medical advances of today. Shit, it would be a whip out for new athletes to beat on old onces. But Ali was in a class in his own... IMO. He stood for more to boxing than anyone, and he battled giants (Foreman, who was winning as an old man still), warriors (Holmes, who still beats on younger people 'till he was like 47) and in his day, the old legands (beat the shit out of Floyd Paterson). Ali was a legand, he was great, he had a versital fighting still. Never has anyone made up for lack of speed and size like Ali did in his older days, when he was wahed up and still winning. Andas I said, Roy is going to that level. Roy is the greatest pound per pound fighter ever. Better than Sugar Ray Robinson, Lenard, (this is a Mexican saying this so you know it must be true) Julio Caeser Chavez, De La Hoya, anyone. Roy is one of the greatest. He beat Hopkins, and everyone else. Roy and Ali are in the same class. That's a given. Lewis is up there by just size, but not skill. His style is too plain, jab and set up for the right. Can beat Tyson, Frazier, Holyfield, and Liston. No questions aske, Lewis is the most physically dominating champion ever. But who would win a one on one game, Shaq or Jordan, both in there prime. Or would you draft Joe Montana or Jeff George. George was physically dominate of Montana in every catigory. I agree, present beats the past. But as I said, Greatness beats all.
^^first off, Chavez was garbage LOL!! 90% of his fights were against who? I bet even the biggest Chavez fan could only name 10 of his opponents ever lol. He lived of a big number of victories, without really fighting contenders. De La Hoya...also trash. Highly overrated IMO. He quit the game for a bit, to get away from Mosley. Trinidad beat him, before gettin TAPPED by Hopkins. Pernell beat him, but got cheated out of the shit.
As for the steriods, they were far more popular among pro athletes about 15-20 yrs ago, then they are now. And todayz athletes would run over those of 15-20 yrs ago.
And as for Ali, theres no debating hes a legend. Theres no debating what he's done. Theres no debating any of that. I luv Ali, i just know he cant win in this era.
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^^first off, Chavez was garbage LOL!! 90% of his fights were against who? I bet even the biggest Chavez fan could only name 10 of his opponents ever lol. He lived of a big number of victories, without really fighting contenders. De La Hoya...also trash. Highly overrated IMO. He quit the game for a bit, to get away from Mosley. Trinidad beat him, before gettin TAPPED by Hopkins. Pernell beat him, but got cheated out of the shit.
And as for Ali, theres no debating hes a legend. Theres no debating what he's done. Theres no debating any of that. I luv Ali, i just know he cant win in this era.
LOL... don't talk about Chavez, he was great... lol. I know about Chavez, but if a Mexican can admit someone is better than him, you ain't knowing, it's huge. I wouldn't put someone that high unless I mean it.
Back to Ali. Lets face, an old George Foreman was winning in these era. Nuff said, case close. Bigger isn't better, just bigger with skillz is. Those Klitschko might be the next greatest to step in the ring. 6'7", 250 lbs. apiece. And both are extremely skilled. Ali was 6'3" 220, and Lewis is 6'5" 240. Those brothers are bigger than both, just too much to beat. Why would Lewis fight them, 'cause they are as much bigger to him as he is to Ali. Now that's phyisically dominating.
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http://espn.go.com/boxing/columns/kellerman_max/1518714.html
An article backing your claim with Roy Jones Jr. Might have to agree, Roy is just the shit, and is pound for pound the greatest ever, no questions asked. So a gift from me to you ToNe. Enjoy, it's all true.
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^^first off, Chavez was garbage LOL!! 90% of his fights were against who? I bet even the biggest Chavez fan could only name 10 of his opponents ever lol. He lived of a big number of victories, without really fighting contenders. De La Hoya...also trash. Highly overrated IMO. He quit the game for a bit, to get away from Mosley. Trinidad beat him, before gettin TAPPED by Hopkins. Pernell beat him, but got cheated out of the shit.
And as for Ali, theres no debating hes a legend. Theres no debating what he's done. Theres no debating any of that. I luv Ali, i just know he cant win in this era.
LOL... don't talk about Chavez, he was great... lol. I know about Chavez, but if a Mexican can admit someone is better than him, you ain't knowing, it's huge. I wouldn't put someone that high unless I mean it.
Back to Ali. Lets face, an old George Foreman was winning in these era. Nuff said, case close. Bigger isn't better, just bigger with skillz is. Those Klitschko might be the next greatest to step in the ring. 6'7", 250 lbs. apiece. And both are extremely skilled. Ali was 6'3" 220, and Lewis is 6'5" 240. Those brothers are bigger than both, just too much to beat. Why would Lewis fight them, 'cause they are as much bigger to him as he is to Ali. Now that's phyisically dominating.
lol@ Chavez....i got mexican homies, and they dont even like Chavez. They think he fulla shit, and overrated, and a strait up bitch really. Im like them, fuk Chavez, fuk De La Hoya...i prefer Barrera regardless.
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lol@ Chavez....i got mexican homies, and they dont even like Chavez. They think he fulla shit, and overrated, and a strait up bitch really. Im like them, fuk Chavez, fuk De La Hoya...i prefer Barrera regardless.
Barrera is the fucken shit. I love that man. I agree, Chavez was overrated, but he fought battles, and he would slug it out with anyone. Chavez for Presidente de Mexico