West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: Hack Wilson - real on August 26, 2014, 07:22:10 PM
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who's better?
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rakim to me
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rakim to me
This no question^^
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I basically grew up on Eminem's first 3 albums and didn't hear much Rakim outside of whatever I saw on a BET Top 25 countdown in my younger days, I'll admit that
but being older now I actually prefer Rakim's delivery/vocals over Em's but let's not act like Eminem isn't cut from the same cloth and his discography isn't up there with if not better than Rakim's
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Eminent might be a top 5 rapper of all time. But to me Rakim is a top 3 rapper no question. But it's like asking who's better, Bill Russell or Michael Jordan, or Babe Ruth or Willie Mayes, or Otto Graham or Joe Montana. You are not wrong with an answer, but I put Rakim as a better rapper to me.
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Only NY got 30 rappers better than him..without count West Coast,Midwest and The South..
Rakim,Daddy Kane,Jay-Z,Nas,LL Cool J,Buckshot,A.G,Guru,Treach,AZ,Big L,Jada,O.C, Grand Puba,Eric Sermon,Sadat X,Ghost,Meth,The Chief,Redman ..AND THE LIST GOES!
without count West Coast,Midwest and The South..
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Jay-Z, Treach, O.C, Grand Puba,Eric Sermon,Sadat X ..AND THE LIST GOES!
I'd say none of these dudes can see Eminem
Jay-Z has a superior catalog though
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Eminent might be a top 5 rapper of all time. But to me Rakim is a top 3 rapper no question. But it's like asking who's better, Bill Russell or Michael Jordan, or Babe Ruth or Willie Mayes, or Otto Graham or Joe Montana. You are not wrong with an answer, but I put Rakim as a better rapper to me.
Babe Ruth and Joe Montana easily
Russell or MJ is tough though.
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Eminent might be a top 5 rapper of all time. But to me Rakim is a top 3 rapper no question. But it's like asking who's better, Bill Russell or Michael Jordan, or Babe Ruth or Willie Mayes, or Otto Graham or Joe Montana. You are not wrong with an answer, but I put Rakim as a better rapper to me.
Babe Ruth and Joe Montana easily
Russell or MJ is tough though.
I had pages arguing with Shallow about that. I said Montana, he said Unitas, and I showed him how Otto Graham was a better old school QB than Unitas, which statistically is true and since not much footage exist from that era then that's all we have. Still, I still say Montana. All I did by introducing Graham was give him another person he put over Montana... LMAO
Ruth, Willie Mayes, Ruth was a better power hitter, Mayes was a better athlete. Plus Mayes played in the post integration, pre-steroid era of baseball, the golden era of professional baseball. But really it's all opinion.
These are arguments we can have for days and days. Which is why I put them up with Rakim vs. Eminem. Ten years ago I would have had a hard time putting anyone up there with Rakim. But now that the 2000's era is over, and you can put those rappers in the all time list, you really have to look at Eminem as a top 5 rapper. Then that adjust where you put Rakim. Especially because I now put Nas in the GOAT spot after his amazing 2000's, which gave him the best catalog in rap history, IMO. Sadly, because 2Pac and Biggie died, they couldn't add to their greatness, so 'Pac will forever be at 3 classics and some very good albums, and Biggie will forever be at 2 classics. Nas though, he has 4 albums I'd consider classics, Illmatic, Stillmatic, Hip-Hop is Dead and Untitled. Those are true, game changing albums which defined their eras. Hip-Hop is Dead actually named a whole Hip-Hop era because it was what everyone was feeling. Out of Nas's 10 albums, only one of them is a bad one.
So with Nas taking that GOAT spot, then where does that leave Rakim? And when you add Eminem? Eminem is the highest selling rapper in the world, which was 2Pac's claim to being in the top 3 for so long. So if Eminem over took 2Pac, then where does that leave 2Pac? I still put 2Pac over Eminem by way of influence, impact and basically being a demigod to rap fans. But is that legitimate anymore when Eminem has outsold 2Pac?
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Rakim last dope vers vas in 99 or some shit like that.
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Rakim last dope vers vas in 99 or some shit like that.
Actually I'd say 2002. But his first dope verse was 1985 or some shit like that.
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It's like comparing Dr. J and Michael Jordan. They had their peak in different era.
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It's like comparing Dr. J and Michael Jordan. They had their peak in different era.
Exactly.
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It's like comparing Dr. J and Michael Jordan. They had their peak in different era.
Exactly.
but we all know MJ > dr j
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Eminem is better but once again, what are we comparing? Rakim is from another era. He was a pioneer. Eminem is still in the mix. Em learned from Rakim. The game has evolved. They can't be compared.
MJ is better than Russell too. But also way different era's and even position players.
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
:grumpy:
18th letter > Ems entire solo discography
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^here comes will to put the tent in pretentious................. considering you've ranked your share of classic albums a 7/10, i'll go out on a limb and say thanks, but no thanks.
sslp and mmlp are classic albums which could measure up with any rap album ever made.
do me a favor and rank those three albums, will ya?..for shits and giggles
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sslp and mmlp are classic albums which could measure up with any rap album ever made.
But no
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i go with Rakim
em is good but way overrated thanks to white people
as time went by em just got worse and worse
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sslp and mmlp are classic albums which could measure up with any rap album ever made.
But no
you need to stop sounding like u talk with your eyes closed, brodie...
seriously, rank the albums or dont bother replyin
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
:grumpy:
18th letter > Ems entire solo discography
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sslp and mmlp are classic albums which could measure up with any rap album ever made.
But no
you need to stop sounding like u talk with your eyes closed, brodie...
seriously, rank the albums or dont bother replyin
18th Letter > SSLP = MMLP
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Really, I own 18th Letter. I play that album a lot in college. I never got that, "OMG, this dude is amazing" feel from it. Eric B. and Rakim, yes, each album made me feel like Rakim was fucking amazing. But 18th Letter? Really? I mean Rakim was good on it, but the whole feel of the album just didn't blow me out the water or anything like that.
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Really, I own 18th Letter. I play that album a lot in college. I never got that, "OMG, this dude is amazing" feel from it. Eric B. and Rakim, yes, each album made me feel like Rakim was fucking amazing. But 18th Letter? Really? I mean Rakim was good on it, but the whole feel of the album just didn't blow me out the water or anything like that.
Personal taste but for me his penmanship on that album is amazing. Em has it at times like on Stan but his 'my mommas on your lips' type lyrics (most of it) just basic ish. As an MC, song conceps, production etc Ems albums are amazing but content is not there
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sslp and mmlp are classic albums which could measure up with any rap album ever made.
But no
you need to stop sounding like u talk with your eyes closed, brodie...
seriously, rank the albums or dont bother replyin
18th Letter > SSLP = MMLP
this is coming from someone who doesnt think eminem has classic albums, am i wrong? as long as you understand that you're in the minority on that one.
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Classic West, personal classics, classic Aftermath etc etc doesn't = all time classics no
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Don't get me wrong, I personally have Rakim over Eminem as a rapper. We are not debating Rakim> Eminem. But to put down Eminem just reeks of trolling. Straight up, Eminem is on of the greatest, most complete rappers of all time. You being so dismissive of him really hurts your argument. I mean no content? Really? Not even White America, or Sing for the Moment, or Toy Soldier?
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Don't get me wrong, I personally have Rakim over Eminem as a rapper. We are not debating Rakim> Eminem. But to put down Eminem just reeks of trolling. Straight up, Eminem is on of the greatest, most complete rappers of all time. You being so dismissive of him really hurts your argument. I mean no content? Really? Not even White America, or Sing for the Moment, or Toy Soldier?
None of the songs you listed are on SSLP or MMLP
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Classic West, personal classics, classic Aftermath etc etc doesn't = all time classics no
well, it's not any of those...them albums are considered consensus hip-hop classics. if your pretentious mind disagrees, all good. but please dont preach your minority opinion as gospel.
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Classic West, personal classics, classic Aftermath etc etc doesn't = all time classics no
well, it's not any of those...them albums are considered consensus hip-hop classics. if your pretentious mind disagrees, all good. but please dont preach your minority opinion as gospel.
I don't care what other people supposedly 'universally' call classics. We've all got out opinions, hence being on a hiphop forum.
To me Ems a crossover phenomenon. Dope and clever MC that was nurtured and matured into possibly the best pop rap artist of all time and a cultural icon. In a way he's bigger than just a pop star (practically a legend in his own lifetime by modern standards) but in terms of classic all round hiphop greats he's nowhere near the top.
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Classic West, personal classics, classic Aftermath etc etc doesn't = all time classics no
well, it's not any of those...them albums are considered consensus hip-hop classics. if your pretentious mind disagrees, all good. but please dont preach your minority opinion as gospel.
I don't care what other people supposedly 'universally' call classics. We've all got out opinions, hence being on a hiphop forum.
To me Ems a crossover phenomenon. Dope and clever MC that was nurtured and matured into possibly the best pop rap artist of all time and a cultural icon. In a way he's bigger than just a pop star (practically a legend in his own lifetime by modern standards) but in terms of classic all round hiphop greats he's nowhere near the top.
m
But sometimes it transcends opinion and becomes stupidly .. In basketball terms, if someone claimed Kareem wasn't one of the greatests, they'd be an idiot. Some things are just universal truths, and certain albums are recognized as undeniable hip-hop classics. You're confusing personal taste with unbiased ranking.. I don't like country, but I'm not guna sit here and tell you that there are no country album classics just because it's not my preference. That's where it starts crossing into pretentious.
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Classic West, personal classics, classic Aftermath etc etc doesn't = all time classics no
well, it's not any of those...them albums are considered consensus hip-hop classics. if your pretentious mind disagrees, all good. but please dont preach your minority opinion as gospel.
I don't care what other people supposedly 'universally' call classics. We've all got out opinions, hence being on a hiphop forum.
To me Ems a crossover phenomenon. Dope and clever MC that was nurtured and matured into possibly the best pop rap artist of all time and a cultural icon. In a way he's bigger than just a pop star (practically a legend in his own lifetime by modern standards) but in terms of classic all round hiphop greats he's nowhere near the top.
m
But sometimes it transcends opinion and becomes stupidly .. In basketball terms, if someone claimed Kareem wasn't one of the greatests, they'd be an idiot. Some things are just universal truths, and certain albums are recognized as undeniable hip-hop classics. You're confusing personal taste with unbiased ranking.. I don't like country, but I'm not guna sit here and tell you that there are no country album classics just because it's not my preference. That's where it starts crossing into pretentious.
I didn't say there are no classic hiphop albums, that'd be dumb.
EDIT: Also I never said Em wasn't one of the greatest MC's. Just not lyricists, or classic albums
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Really, I own 18th Letter. I play that album a lot in college. I never got that, "OMG, this dude is amazing" feel from it. Eric B. and Rakim, yes, each album made me feel like Rakim was fucking amazing. But 18th Letter? Really? I mean Rakim was good on it, but the whole feel of the album just didn't blow me out the water or anything like that.
Personal taste but for me his penmanship on that album is amazing. Em has it at times like on Stan but his 'my mommas on your lips' type lyrics (most of it) just basic ish. As an MC, song conceps, production etc Ems albums are amazing but content is not there
Lol you didn't even get the lyrics right. How are you gonna comment on his lyrics when you don't even understand them? Speaking of content though... most of Rakim's work with Eric B had next to no content on them. He's rapping about rapping. And these are his best albums.
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Really, I own 18th Letter. I play that album a lot in college. I never got that, "OMG, this dude is amazing" feel from it. Eric B. and Rakim, yes, each album made me feel like Rakim was fucking amazing. But 18th Letter? Really? I mean Rakim was good on it, but the whole feel of the album just didn't blow me out the water or anything like that.
Personal taste but for me his penmanship on that album is amazing. Em has it at times like on Stan but his 'my mommas on your lips' type lyrics (most of it) just basic ish. As an MC, song conceps, production etc Ems albums are amazing but content is not there
Lol you didn't even get the lyrics right. How are you gonna comment on his lyrics when you don't even understand them? Speaking of content though... most of Rakim's work with Eric B had next to no content on them. He's rapping about rapping. And these are his best albums.
Wow. Bum is on your lips is so much better. I just had an epiphany. Greatest lyricist of all time :D
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
I'm curious to know how you were able to conclude that Rakim is a better lyricist than Eminem?
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Really, I own 18th Letter. I play that album a lot in college. I never got that, "OMG, this dude is amazing" feel from it. Eric B. and Rakim, yes, each album made me feel like Rakim was fucking amazing. But 18th Letter? Really? I mean Rakim was good on it, but the whole feel of the album just didn't blow me out the water or anything like that.
Personal taste but for me his penmanship on that album is amazing. Em has it at times like on Stan but his 'my mommas on your lips' type lyrics (most of it) just basic ish. As an MC, song conceps, production etc Ems albums are amazing but content is not there
Lol you didn't even get the lyrics right. How are you gonna comment on his lyrics when you don't even understand them? Speaking of content though... most of Rakim's work with Eric B had next to no content on them. He's rapping about rapping. And these are his best albums.
I was going to say the same shit. His Solo stuff is not even considered his best shit ha.
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sslp and mmlp are classic albums which could measure up with any rap album ever made.
But no
you need to stop sounding like u talk with your eyes closed, brodie...
seriously, rank the albums or dont bother replyin
18th Letter > SSLP = MMLP
WTF?
(http://media.giphy.com/media/qHjbXtxNawWR2/giphy.gif)
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Don't get me wrong, I personally have Rakim over Eminem as a rapper. We are not debating Rakim> Eminem. But to put down Eminem just reeks of trolling. Straight up, Eminem is on of the greatest, most complete rappers of all time. You being so dismissive of him really hurts your argument. I mean no content? Really? Not even White America, or Sing for the Moment, or Toy Soldier?
None of the songs you listed are on SSLP or MMLP
First off, I never considered SSLP a classic. But even that album had Brain Damage.The MMLP had Stan, The Way I Am, and Kim.
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
I'm curious to know how you were able to conclude that Rakim is a better lyricist than Eminem?
I would. But it's not like it's a wipe out. They are different.
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Classic West, personal classics, classic Aftermath etc etc doesn't = all time classics no
well, it's not any of those...them albums are considered consensus hip-hop classics. if your pretentious mind disagrees, all good. but please dont preach your minority opinion as gospel.
I don't care what other people supposedly 'universally' call classics. We've all got out opinions, hence being on a hiphop forum.
To me Ems a crossover phenomenon. Dope and clever MC that was nurtured and matured into possibly the best pop rap artist of all time and a cultural icon. In a way he's bigger than just a pop star (practically a legend in his own lifetime by modern standards) but in terms of classic all round hiphop greats he's nowhere near the top.
m
But sometimes it transcends opinion and becomes stupidly .. In basketball terms, if someone claimed Kareem wasn't one of the greatests, they'd be an idiot. Some things are just universal truths, and certain albums are recognized as undeniable hip-hop classics. You're confusing personal taste with unbiased ranking.. I don't like country, but I'm not guna sit here and tell you that there are no country album classics just because it's not my preference. That's where it starts crossing into pretentious.
I didn't say there are no classic hiphop albums, that'd be dumb.
EDIT: Also I never said Em wasn't one of the greatest MC's. Just not lyricists, or classic albums
and thats where your personal preference gets in the way of unbiased judgement.
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
I'm curious to know how you were able to conclude that Rakim is a better lyricist than Eminem?
I would. But it's not like it's a wipe out. They are different.
So how did you come up with that conclusion. I always found it weird how people were able to make that distinction when comparing two highly skilled lyricist. To this day I haven't heard anyone give me a thorough explanation how they did it. Seems like it's just another opinion, claimed to be fact.
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Really, I own 18th Letter. I play that album a lot in college. I never got that, "OMG, this dude is amazing" feel from it. Eric B. and Rakim, yes, each album made me feel like Rakim was fucking amazing. But 18th Letter? Really? I mean Rakim was good on it, but the whole feel of the album just didn't blow me out the water or anything like that.
Personal taste but for me his penmanship on that album is amazing. Em has it at times like on Stan but his 'my mommas on your lips' type lyrics (most of it) just basic ish. As an MC, song conceps, production etc Ems albums are amazing but content is not there
Lol you didn't even get the lyrics right. How are you gonna comment on his lyrics when you don't even understand them? Speaking of content though... most of Rakim's work with Eric B had next to no content on them. He's rapping about rapping. And these are his best albums.
lmao i just caught that, "my mommas on your lips"...will really is somethin else, never change.
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
I'm curious to know how you were able to conclude that Rakim is a better lyricist than Eminem?
i'm not tryna get into the science of lyricism right now, but rakim is more consistent with his bars and is impeccable with placement of where the rhymes hit. i think he's the best example i can come up with for how the perfect rhyme should be structured. eminem is right up there, tho.. just not as clean of an overall structure to his rhymes.
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
I'm curious to know how you were able to conclude that Rakim is a better lyricist than Eminem?
i'm not tryna get into the science of lyricism right now, but rakim is more consistent with his bars and is impeccable with placement of where the rhymes hit. i think he's the best example i can come up with for how the perfect rhyme should be structured. eminem is right up there, tho.. just not as clean of an overall structure to his rhymes.
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Disagree but cool.
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
I'm curious to know how you were able to conclude that Rakim is a better lyricist than Eminem?
i'm not tryna get into the science of lyricism right now, but rakim is more consistent with his bars and is impeccable with placement of where the rhymes hit. i think he's the best example i can come up with for how the perfect rhyme should be structured. eminem is right up there, tho.. just not as clean of an overall structure to his rhymes.
Sounds about right. In also take into account impact and influence. So say someone like a 2Pac who was skilled, but not to the level of an Eminem or Rakim, would really make up points in that aspect, plus range of songs and the ability to construct albums. To me it's more than rhyme structure, but with just rhyme structure you have very few that are even close to Rakim. I have see some take vocabulary size, I think that's a crock of shit, but Canibus ranked the highest in that category. There is so much you can do. But at the end of the day, art is subjective. And to me Rakim is better. But honestly to say Eminem is not close-up or to even say Eminem is not top 5, or to reduce him to just a hip hop pop act is a huge injustice to Eminem. Em to be is number 4 overall on my list. Only 2 spots behind Rakim and just under 2Pac.
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
I'm curious to know how you were able to conclude that Rakim is a better lyricist than Eminem?
i'm not tryna get into the science of lyricism right now, but rakim is more consistent with his bars and is impeccable with placement of where the rhymes hit. i think he's the best example i can come up with for how the perfect rhyme should be structured. eminem is right up there, tho.. just not as clean of an overall structure to his rhymes.
Sounds about right. In also take into account impact and influence. So say someone like a 2Pac who was skilled, but not to the level of an Eminem or Rakim, would really make up points in that aspect, plus range of songs and the ability to construct albums. To me it's more than rhyme structure, but with just rhyme structure you have very few that are even close to Rakim. I have see some take vocabulary size, I think that's a crock of shit, but Canibus ranked the highest in that category. There is so much you can do. But at the end of the day, art is subjective. And to me Rakim is better. But honestly to say Eminem is not close-up or to even say Eminem is not top 5, or to reduce him to just a hip hop pop act is a huge injustice to Eminem. Em to be is number 4 overall on my list. Only 2 spots behind Rakim and just under 2Pac.
I don't have a problem with anyone saying Rakim is better. I love RA. He's a pioneer! My point is that Hop Hop has a lot of elements and if we're going to talk about the element of lyricism ALONE, there is no fucking way anyone can claim that Em is not on Rakims level in terms of lyricism. That's just false. Eminem is a mad scientist. If you want to bring up other aspects about him and just talk about him as a WHOLE artist, then it becomes a bit more subjective. But in terms of just the science of lyricism, Eminem is right there at the top with the best and possibly even higher.
https://www.youtube.com//v/I53vWm8dJGk
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
I'm curious to know how you were able to conclude that Rakim is a better lyricist than Eminem?
i'm not tryna get into the science of lyricism right now, but rakim is more consistent with his bars and is impeccable with placement of where the rhymes hit. i think he's the best example i can come up with for how the perfect rhyme should be structured. eminem is right up there, tho.. just not as clean of an overall structure to his rhymes.
Sounds about right. In also take into account impact and influence. So say someone like a 2Pac who was skilled, but not to the level of an Eminem or Rakim, would really make up points in that aspect, plus range of songs and the ability to construct albums. To me it's more than rhyme structure, but with just rhyme structure you have very few that are even close to Rakim. I have see some take vocabulary size, I think that's a crock of shit, but Canibus ranked the highest in that category. There is so much you can do. But at the end of the day, art is subjective. And to me Rakim is better. But honestly to say Eminem is not close-up or to even say Eminem is not top 5, or to reduce him to just a hip hop pop act is a huge injustice to Eminem. Em to be is number 4 overall on my list. Only 2 spots behind Rakim and just under 2Pac.
I don't have a problem with anyone saying Rakim is better. I love RA. He's a pioneer! My point is that Hop Hop has a lot of elements and if we're going to talk about the element of lyricism ALONE, there is no fucking way anyone can claim that Em is not on Rakims level in terms of lyricism. That's just false. Eminem is a mad scientist. If you want to bring up other aspects about him and just talk about him as a WHOLE artist, then it becomes a bit more subjective. But in terms of just the science of lyricism, Eminem is right there at the top with the best and possibly even higher.
https://www.youtube.com//v/I53vWm8dJGk
i agree...there isn't a huge margin between em and ra. theyre interchangeable, really.
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gotta go with rakim.
would go with rakim regardless, but my criticism is that eminem's latter part of his career isn't doing him any favours. he might still have the raw spitting abilities but his albums just aren't on the level of his earlier work. not to say rakim's last LP was great but some of ems output has been really grating.
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rakim is the better lyricist, eminem had better range in his music. overall, a classic em album is more entertaining than a classic rakim album, but like others already said, they're interchangeable, as is the story with most greats.
I'm curious to know how you were able to conclude that Rakim is a better lyricist than Eminem?
i'm not tryna get into the science of lyricism right now, but rakim is more consistent with his bars and is impeccable with placement of where the rhymes hit. i think he's the best example i can come up with for how the perfect rhyme should be structured. eminem is right up there, tho.. just not as clean of an overall structure to his rhymes.
Sounds about right. In also take into account impact and influence. So say someone like a 2Pac who was skilled, but not to the level of an Eminem or Rakim, would really make up points in that aspect, plus range of songs and the ability to construct albums. To me it's more than rhyme structure, but with just rhyme structure you have very few that are even close to Rakim. I have see some take vocabulary size, I think that's a crock of shit, but Canibus ranked the highest in that category. There is so much you can do. But at the end of the day, art is subjective. And to me Rakim is better. But honestly to say Eminem is not close-up or to even say Eminem is not top 5, or to reduce him to just a hip hop pop act is a huge injustice to Eminem. Em to be is number 4 overall on my list. Only 2 spots behind Rakim and just under 2Pac.
I don't have a problem with anyone saying Rakim is better. I love RA. He's a pioneer! My point is that Hop Hop has a lot of elements and if we're going to talk about the element of lyricism ALONE, there is no fucking way anyone can claim that Em is not on Rakims level in terms of lyricism. That's just false. Eminem is a mad scientist. If you want to bring up other aspects about him and just talk about him as a WHOLE artist, then it becomes a bit more subjective. But in terms of just the science of lyricism, Eminem is right there at the top with the best and possibly even higher.
https://www.youtube.com//v/I53vWm8dJGk
No doubt. Em is a beast. Like I said earlier, to me Em is like Joe Montana and Rakim is like Otto Graham. You can argue all day and night over who's better. To me it is very close
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Ra has one classic, em two.
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Aside from Stan and Lose Yourself Em has nothing on the level of the greats. I guess I could put him top 20. But not 5 or 10
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Aside from Stan and Lose Yourself Em has nothing on the level of the greats. I guess I could put him top 20. But not 5 or 10
smh
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Aside from Stan and Lose Yourself Em has nothing on the level of the greats. I guess I could put him top 20. But not 5 or 10
Man, I know you are trolling. You are trying hard. LOL
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I find it hilarious you think someone's trolling if they say Em isn't top 5. Maybe you're misunderstanding me, I'm saying he doesn't have 'all time classic' albums across all musical genres. If we're talking about individual songs *maybe* but still I think fall short. Sure you could argue top 5 as spitters. But what is an mc without something to say. Em burnt out on that years ago so the fact he has no longevity there changed my opinion on him
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I find it hilarious you think someone's trolling if they say Em isn't top 5. Maybe you're misunderstanding me, I'm saying he doesn't have 'all time classic' albums across all musical genres. If we're talking about individual songs *maybe* but still I think fall short. Sure you could argue top 5 as spitters. But what is an mc without something to say. Em burnt out on that years ago so the fact he has no longevity there changed my opinion on him
So Recovery shows no longevity? That album was amazing. And classic is very subjective. Many consider MMLP a classic. I consider the Eminem Show a classic. Recovery is to me a 4.5 mic album. That's not too far off from Rakim. But you seem to think great rappers have classic albums dropping out their ass. In reality many rappers barely can get one album that people consider a classic. Rakim had Paid in Full, and a bunch of near classics. It's just not that easy. But you make it sound like all great rappers do is put out classics without having a bad album. That's not even true of Rakim. So why hold Eminem to a standard that no one else can meet. To me Eminem is top 5 all time. Most albums sold ever, changed hip hop to mainstream, one of the top 5 lyrist of all time, had many classic songs and produced at least 1 classic album. What more do you want. I have Rakim at number 2. The best lyrist of all time, a classic album, influencer of almost every true lyrist after him. I mean come on, it's hip hop. You can give Rakim his props without putting down Eminem.
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But you seem to think great rappers have classic albums dropping out their ass. In reality many rappers barely can get one album that people consider a classic. Rakim had Paid in Full, and a bunch of near classics. It's just not that easy. But you make it sound like all great rappers do is put out classics without having a bad album.
When did I say any of that?
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Didn't have to. You are like Eminem doesn't have classics. First that's false, second a lot of great rappers don't have classics. They all may have a great album, but classics are hard to come by. Still Eminem has at least one classic.
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Didn't have to. You are like Eminem doesn't have classics. First that's false, second a lot of great rappers don't have classics. They all may have a great album, but classics are hard to come by. Still Eminem has at least one classic.
How is my opinion subjective but yours objective? :D
So what's his classic to you? And I'm interested what's the rest of your top 5 goats
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well, it's like saying wilt chamberlain isn't an all-time great in basketball.....
you can claim it as an opinion, but it just makes you sound ridiculously dumb.
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Didn't have to. You are like Eminem doesn't have classics. First that's false, second a lot of great rappers don't have classics. They all may have a great album, but classics are hard to come by. Still Eminem has at least one classic.
How is my opinion subjective but yours objective? :D
So what's his classic to you? And I'm interested what's the rest of your top 5 goats
well, it's like saying wilt chamberlain isn't an all-time great in basketball.....
you can claim it as an opinion, but it just makes you sound ridiculously dumb.
Basically what Sccit said. It goes like this, there are actual numbers that back up Eminem as an all time great rapper. To deny saying so would be like if I said Larry Bird ISN'T one of the greatest basketball players of all time. I mean, he has the MVP trophies, NBA titles, scoring and everything to back up that he is. Eminem is the same way. You can deny it all you want, but there is even solid numbers to back up Eminem as an all time great.
If you want record sales, Eminem is the highest selling rap artist of all time. If you want something that measures vocabulary, there was a study that measured vocabulary. I was wrong originally, I thought Canibus was number 1 largest vocabulary, he was number 4 at 5,991 unique words. Number 1 was Aesop Rock at 7,392 unique words used. If you look at the top 10, they are so far above everyone else. I mean, these must truly be the GOATs of rapper, so surely Rakim must be up at 6,000, maybe 7,000, I mean no less that 5,000 unique words. He is after all the best lyricist ever. Well Rakim is at 4,621 unique worlds used, just below LL Cool J at 4,743. Eminem is at 4,494 unique words used. Basically Rakim and Eminem are clustered in the middle of all these other rappers with vocab size. But album rankings, surely if Eminem is just a pop act, surely his albums must not get much love from the critics. Well...
Slim Shady LP, Mixed reviews, 5/5 from Allmusic, Rolling Stone 3.5/5, Entertainment Weekly C+
Marshall Mathers LP, High reviews, XXL, Rolling Stone 5/5, Entertainment Weekly A-, LA Times, 3.5/4, Vibe 5/5
Eminem Show, High Reviews, XL, Rolling Stone 4/5. Entertainment Weekly B+, HipHopDX 4.5/5, Vibe 4/5
So pretty good for the first 3 albums. I mean I can go on, but I want to get to Rakim...
Paid in Full, High reviews, The Source 5/5, Rolling Stone 5/5, NY Times favorable, Allmusic 5/5
Follow the Leader, high reviews, Rolling Stone 4.5/5, Allmusic 5/5, LA Times 3.5/4,
Let the Rhythm Hit 'Em, High/Mixed reviews, Allmusic 3/5, Entertainment Weekly B-, LA Times 4/5, Rolling Stone 4/5
Those are just the first three albums of both artist. I'm not going further than that to prove a point.
But the point is this. Any measurement you want with Eminem, it's all there. You want titles, Eminem has high album reviews, you want scoring, Eminem has sales. In terms of songs with meaning, he has a lot of them, and he has just as many as Rakim. So I am not sure what you are measuring Eminem on. He's got everything you can ask for in a rapper when deciding the greatest ever.
Oh, and you wanted my top 5... In order... 5. Melle Mel, 4. Eminem, 3. 2Pac, 2. Rakim, 1. Nas
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Your top 5 is interesting to me and I appreciate that. But really? Throwing record sales and mass media reviews at an argument doesn't do anything to prove who is better (that's like saying its fact that Harry Potter is the best film of all time)
For me to say Em who had 2 great abums and still a string of hits after that, could be probably in a top 20 rappers is generous (but still possible) to say he's even CLOSE to a top 5 is ridiculous to me. How many pioneers of rap came before Eminem with classics under their belt? How many great MCs with or without classic albums? 100s. So why pick Em. Dre to me isn't a goat MC or a lyricist but The Chronic is a stone cold classic. If you're saying MMLP or SSLP are up there with The Chronic then I'm tapping out cause we ain't gonna see eye to eye on this :)
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Your top 5 is interesting to me and I appreciate that. But really? Throwing record sales and mass media reviews at an argument doesn't do anything to prove who is better (that's like saying its fact that Harry Potter is the best film of all time)
For me to say Em who had 2 great abums and still a string of hits after that, could be probably in a top 20 rappers is generous (but still possible) to say he's even CLOSE to a top 5 is ridiculous to me. How many pioneers of rap came before Eminem with classics under their belt? How many great MCs with or without classic albums? 100s. So why pick Em. Dre to me isn't a goat MC or a lyricist but The Chronic is a stone cold classic. If you're saying MMLP or SSLP are up there with The Chronic then I'm tapping out cause we ain't gonna see eye to eye on this :)
Because up until his comeback, Eminem was in my top 15, but not top 5. But his comeback proved longevity, he broke 2Pac's all time sales record and I really liked Recovery. So much like putting Nas at number 1, I had to re-evaluate my top 10 list and I had to look at it differently. So I looked at albums, I looked at longevity, quality of longevity, influence, impact, and in all of those Eminem is an all time great. As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.
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As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.
I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO
Peace brother!
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As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.
I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO
Peace brother!
Even MMLP2 which is universally seen as a great album. I haven't heard it yet, but it got better reviews than Recovery, and I loved Recovery. I just haven't had time to listen to MMLP2 whole album, but I did enjoy all the singles, but I didn't factor that album into my Eminem ratings.
Also, not one artist has a consistent catalog. They all have peaks and valleys, even Nas himself. And Rakim.
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As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.
I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO
Peace brother!
Even MMLP2 which is universally seen as a great album. I haven't heard it yet, but it got better reviews than Recovery, and I loved Recovery. I just haven't had time to listen to MMLP2 whole album, but I did enjoy all the singles, but I didn't factor that album into my Eminem ratings.
Also, not one artist has a consistent catalog. They all have peaks and valleys, even Nas himself. And Rakim.
Great albums don't = classics. My original point stands. Rakims best solo > Em's
And MMLP2 is decent, but it went in the trash after one spin :D
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to be fair, i thought recovery was garbage....but mmlp2 was a really good album. probably his best in 10 years. either way, as usual, will is trippin again.
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As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.
I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO
Peace brother!
Even MMLP2 which is universally seen as a great album. I haven't heard it yet, but it got better reviews than Recovery, and I loved Recovery. I just haven't had time to listen to MMLP2 whole album, but I did enjoy all the singles, but I didn't factor that album into my Eminem ratings.
Also, not one artist has a consistent catalog. They all have peaks and valleys, even Nas himself. And Rakim.
Great albums don't = classics. My original point stands. Rakims best solo > Em's
And MMLP2 is decent, but it went in the trash after one spin :D
In my ratings, Rakim>Eminem. But compared to other rappers, Eminem has few peers.
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As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.
I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO
Peace brother!
Even MMLP2 which is universally seen as a great album. I haven't heard it yet, but it got better reviews than Recovery, and I loved Recovery. I just haven't had time to listen to MMLP2 whole album, but I did enjoy all the singles, but I didn't factor that album into my Eminem ratings.
Also, not one artist has a consistent catalog. They all have peaks and valleys, even Nas himself. And Rakim.
Great albums don't = classics. My original point stands. Rakims best solo > Em's
And MMLP2 is decent, but it went in the trash after one spin :D
In my ratings, Rakim>Eminem. But compared to other rappers, Eminem has few peers.
No doubt. Aside from Nas, he's at the top of the tree for mainstream rappers still. I'm always gonna check his new ish