West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: M Dogg™ on June 16, 2015, 10:41:56 PM
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Coming into the league, everyone was ready to crown LeBron the greatest player that ever played. People waited, and waited, and waited for him to fulfill his legacy. Now here we are, the aftermath of another LeBron defeat. Now let me get this out the way, this series, I think this series LeBron played his ass off and this I honestly don't count against him. His team suffered injures and they were badly out-manned against one of the greatest regular season teams in history. BUT, BUT, the bottom line is LeBron is 2-4 in the NBA Finals. And honestly, he shouldn't be in this position. Even losing this finals, LeBron shouldn't be 2-4 in the NBA Finals. So this is why we have to look at LeBron and where his legacy stacks up.
In 2007, the Cavs made it through a weak East with a weak team and got swept by the Spurs. This was suppose to be the start of the legacy, except Boston caught everyone off guard and got Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen to join Paul Pierce to form the Big 3 in Boston. This caused LeBron's Cavs to be greatly over matched. You could see LeBron's frustration as he ran into the Big 3 each and every year. So in 2010, after Kobe solidified his legacy by leading the Lakers past Boston's Big 3, LeBron created his own in Miami with Wade and Bosh. This is where I see LeBron's legacy totally tanked.
Had LeBron been in Miami only 4 years, but still win 4 titles, I don't think we are having this conversation. Maybe the first lost to Dallas, yet Dallas wasn't exactly full of stars. Miami hurt themselves signing their own Big 3, because unlike Boston who had a young solid supporting cast in Perkins, Big Baby and Rondo, Miami had Mario Chalmers and Joel Anthony. So Miami was lacking the same depth that Boston had, but they made up for it in that their Big 3 was in their primes. And once matched up against Boston, Miami was able to crush them 4-1, mainly because Boston traded away Perkins and didn't have a healthy center. But it didn't matter, Miami showed their Big 3 was a dominate basketball juggernaut. And at the end, they lost, and they lost because LeBron was scared in the big moment. LeBron only scored 17ppg, and was outplayed by Shawn Marion. The Heat had more players in double digit scoring, their stars showed up, but LeBron did not show up at all, and it was obvious LeBron couldn't handle the big moment.
Fast forward to 2014, the rematch against the Spurs. You see, after beating the Spurs, people loved the story of the Spurs getting revenge. My problem with that is LeBron needed to win that finals. Hey, when you look at finals rematches, like the Bulls/Jazz, or Lakers/Celtics, the greatest of the great teams win the rematch. You had already figured out your opponent, so you go out there and beat them again. And LeBron did come up big, but his team did not. But unlike the first finals for Miami, the 2014 Heat were battle tested, and they were knew how to win. But they could put it together. To me, that 2014 lost was the worst for LeBron's legacy.
This year, I really don't count it against LeBron's legacy, but as I pointed out, he should have won those two against the Texan teams. LeBron's legacy, it's a question about 2011 and 2014. How could LeBron not get the win in those. Right now, LeBron should be 4-2 instead of 2-4.
To me, I think Cleveland with a healthy Love and Irving, will win it all. I think that will solidify LeBron in that 2nd tier player, and he will win a title for Cleveland. But he can't join Magic, Jordan, Bird and Mikan. Those two failures in the finals forever harm him.
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I don't quite get how it doesn't count against his legacy.
Just watching ESPN over the past hour, it's crazy how much they are jocking Lebron's stats when he lost another finals. Yes, he's an excellent player. But I want to hear about the winners more, not another reminder of how many triple-doubles Lebron had or how many 30+ point playoff games he's had in his career.
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lol@that final sentence
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I don't quite get how it doesn't count against his legacy.
Just watching ESPN over the past hour, it's crazy how much they are jocking Lebron's stats when he lost another finals. Yes, he's an excellent player. But I want to hear about the winners more, not another reminder of how many triple-doubles Lebron had or how many 30+ point playoff games he's had in his career.
and his stats are not even that great when u put them into perspective. he underperformed in 4th quarters, shot under 40% the entire series and had inflated stats mainly due to his extremely high usage rate. but he was not efficient, and even worse, he was seeing single coverage the whole time. i never wanna hear him compared to kobe again. kobe was lighting this same warrior team up for 40+ on higher efficiency just this year. imagine prime kobe vs 1-on-1 coverage... 60+ ppg average, easy.
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
By the way, the only reason Jordan never lost a Finals is because in 95, he just wasn't good enough to get there.
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
LOL... Mikan was the ORIGINAL superstar. I put him there because he was the first GOAT player, the George Washington of superstars.
As for 2/2. I give LeBron 2/4. He had that Heat team 4 years, and only won twice. I give him a pass for this year and 2007. But in 2011, he only scored 17ppg, and had to be carried by D-Wade. In 2014, he could not lead his team to beat the Spurs again, and instead the Heatles fell apart. Kobe or MJ, or Mikan, or Magic, or Bird, or Shaq, or especially player/coach Russell, would not have let that happen to their team.
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Please... Kobe AND Shaq lost to the fucking Pistons, the best player on that team was a no-offense-whatsoever-player named Ben Wallace. The Spurs of 2014 were much better. Magic and Bird lost to each other, MJ lost to a young Shaq.
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Please... Kobe AND Shaq lost to the fucking Pistons, the best player on that team was a no-offense-whatsoever-player named Ben Wallace. The Spurs of 2014 were much better. Magic and Bird lost to each other, MJ lost to a young Shaq.
And LeBron lost to a team with Jason Terry and Shawn Marion as the #2 and #3 option. Magic lost to a Big three of McHale, Parish and Bird. In 2004, the Lakers lost to a rape trial and Kobe and Shaq fighting each other. In 2011, the Superfriends lost to Jason Terry and Shawn Marion.
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M Dogg acting like Dirk wasn't in his prime on that Mavs team :laugh:
and like Tyson Chandler doesn't exist now?
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M Dogg acting like Dirk wasn't in his prime on that Mavs team :laugh:
and like Tyson Chandler doesn't exist now?
And LeBron didn't only score 17ppg, and he didn't have D-Wade and Chris Bosh as his team, promising 8 titles in a row.
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Please... Kobe AND Shaq lost to the fucking Pistons, the best player on that team was a no-offense-whatsoever-player named Ben Wallace. The Spurs of 2014 were much better. Magic and Bird lost to each other, MJ lost to a young Shaq.
that laker team was a mess in terms of chemistry....still, it's not comparable to 2/6 in the finals. lebron might be the greatest loser ever, but thats as far as his title will go.
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
By the way, the only reason Jordan never lost a Finals is because in 95, he just wasn't good enough to get there.
lol@mdogg bein a laker homer...he just did that to spite kobe, as if u didnt know. again, these years in which lebron is losing the finals is only because he plays in the east. he'd be a first round exit every year if he played out west, and u do know that. and yes, 2/2 is better than 2/6 lmao.
btw kobe or jordan in lebron's shoes would be AT LEAST 4/6, and it's not even up for discussion.
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
By the way, the only reason Jordan never lost a Finals is because in 95, he just wasn't good enough to get there.
lol@mdogg bein a laker homer...he just did that to spite kobe, as if u didnt know. again, these years in which lebron is losing the finals is only because he plays in the east. he'd be a first round exit every year if he played out west, and u do know that. and yes, 2/2 is better than 2/6 lmao.
btw kobe or jordan in lebron's shoes would be AT LEAST 4/6, and it's not even up for discussion.
I am a history major. I give respect to the forefathers. Thought you knew. No disrespect to Kobe. Kobe is in my top 10, but not top 5. At least not yet. I need to see his last year before I put him on any Mt. Rushmore.
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if kobe's not in your top 5, then kill yaself. only players who can be regarded as better=magic, michael, and kareem. and between those 4, an argument can be made for any of them as GOAT. actually, there are about 10 players who are interchangeable as GOAT when u talkin about individual skill. once u factor in accomplishments, it's the 4 i named and then everyone else.
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if kobe's not in your top 5, then kill yaself. only players who can be regarded as better=magic, michael, and kareem. and between those 4, an argument can be made for any of them as GOAT. actually, there are about 10 players who are interchangeable as GOAT when u talkin about individual skill. once u factor in accomplishments, it's the 4 i named and then everyone else.
Okay?? Where does Kobe goes with Mikan, Russell, Magic, MJ? Who does he replace? They all won at least 5 titles. Mikan has more MVPs, Russell has more NBA Finals MVPs, Magic has more league MVPs and Finals MVPs, MJ have more titles and MVPs and 6 Finals MVPs. Who does Kobe replace? Look, let's see what Kobe does in his last year. If you are looking for me saying Kobe is better than LeBron, hell, I say it all the time. Kobe is better than LeBron.
You should quote this and put it in your sig.
Kobe Bryant is better than LeBron James.
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if kobe's not in your top 5, then kill yaself. only players who can be regarded as better=magic, michael, and kareem. and between those 4, an argument can be made for any of them as GOAT. actually, there are about 10 players who are interchangeable as GOAT when u talkin about individual skill. once u factor in accomplishments, it's the 4 i named and then everyone else.
Okay?? Where does Kobe goes with Mikan, Russell, Magic, MJ? Who does he replace? They all won at least 5 titles. Mikan has more MVPs, Russell has more NBA Finals MVPs, Magic has more league MVPs and Finals MVPs, MJ have more titles and MVPs and 6 Finals MVPs. Who does Kobe replace? Look, let's see what Kobe does in his last year. If you are looking for me saying Kobe is better than LeBron, hell, I say it all the time. Kobe is better than LeBron.
You should quote this and put it in your sig.
Kobe Bryant is better than LeBron James.
thats why i said u have to factor in individual skill ANDDDD accolades...not one or the other. kobe shits on russell and mikan in terms of individual skill, and only an idiot would argue that. it's only the accolades that elevates them to bein anywhere close.
i dont care if u say kobe is better than lebron to save face....at this point, no one is really claimin otherwise. but u still downplaying the shit outa kobe comparin him to george mikan lmao.
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if kobe's not in your top 5, then kill yaself. only players who can be regarded as better=magic, michael, and kareem. and between those 4, an argument can be made for any of them as GOAT. actually, there are about 10 players who are interchangeable as GOAT when u talkin about individual skill. once u factor in accomplishments, it's the 4 i named and then everyone else.
Okay?? Where does Kobe goes with Mikan, Russell, Magic, MJ? Who does he replace? They all won at least 5 titles. Mikan has more MVPs, Russell has more NBA Finals MVPs, Magic has more league MVPs and Finals MVPs, MJ have more titles and MVPs and 6 Finals MVPs. Who does Kobe replace? Look, let's see what Kobe does in his last year. If you are looking for me saying Kobe is better than LeBron, hell, I say it all the time. Kobe is better than LeBron.
You should quote this and put it in your sig.
Kobe Bryant is better than LeBron James.
thats why i said u have to factor in individual skill ANDDDD accolades...not one or the other. kobe shits on russell and mikan in terms of individual skill, and only an idiot would argue that. it's only the accolades that elevates them to bein anywhere close.
i dont care if u say kobe is better than lebron to save face....at this point, no one is really claimin otherwise. but u still downplaying the shit outa kobe comparin him to george mikan lmao.
Mikan's a Laker. Thought you wouldn't mind that. Besides, my Mt. Rushmore wasn't based off of one on one play, it was based off importance to the game. Mikan was the first superstar, Russell won 11 titles and was a player/coach and he spoke out on political issues, Magic was the winner of Magic vs. Bird and that rivalry put the game on a whole other level, and MJ open up the business of the game and became the global face of basketball. I even explained it on my original Mt Rushmore post. Do I think Kobe could beat Russell one on one, hell yes. But do I think Russell was more important to basketball than Kobe, I do.
As for my actual top 10 in terms of skill, I said this before too, I don't put active players on my list. I am making an excuse for Kobe because he's played more minutes than many of the other players in my top 10. But I really don't think much about his place, other than I don't see him passing Magic, Jordan, Kareem, Russell as just a straight winner, and Mikan because of how Mikan dominated his era. That's what it's about. How good are you against your own era? Why? Because that's all you have to judge people by. Mikan was more dominate against his own era than Kobe was against his. Russell was way more dominate against his era than any other player in history. That's how I judge it. Maybe if Kobe retires, and I can properly look at his career, maybe I'll put him in my top 5. Maybe. I said the same thing about MJ, because Bulls fans were like you in the 90's. I REFUSED to put MJ in my top 5 because he was still playing. I couldn't accurately say he was a top 5 player when he only had 4 rings and he quit on basketball. Everyone was saying he was the greatest and I just rolled my eyes because he was still playing and I had no idea if he'd quit again, he'd get hurt, he'd leave the floor in the middle of the finals. And people yelled at me. But I take the same stance with Kobe, he ain't no top 5 player until I can put his career in prospective and judge him accordingly. I'll give him top 10, he has played so many minutes. Where? I don't know. I have to sit down and make a list. But top 5, for an active player, that's crazy.
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if kobe's not in your top 5, then kill yaself. only players who can be regarded as better=magic, michael, and kareem. and between those 4, an argument can be made for any of them as GOAT. actually, there are about 10 players who are interchangeable as GOAT when u talkin about individual skill. once u factor in accomplishments, it's the 4 i named and then everyone else.
Okay?? Where does Kobe goes with Mikan, Russell, Magic, MJ? Who does he replace? They all won at least 5 titles. Mikan has more MVPs, Russell has more NBA Finals MVPs, Magic has more league MVPs and Finals MVPs, MJ have more titles and MVPs and 6 Finals MVPs. Who does Kobe replace? Look, let's see what Kobe does in his last year. If you are looking for me saying Kobe is better than LeBron, hell, I say it all the time. Kobe is better than LeBron.
You should quote this and put it in your sig.
Kobe Bryant is better than LeBron James.
thats why i said u have to factor in individual skill ANDDDD accolades...not one or the other. kobe shits on russell and mikan in terms of individual skill, and only an idiot would argue that. it's only the accolades that elevates them to bein anywhere close.
i dont care if u say kobe is better than lebron to save face....at this point, no one is really claimin otherwise. but u still downplaying the shit outa kobe comparin him to george mikan lmao.
Mikan's a Laker. Thought you wouldn't mind that. Besides, my Mt. Rushmore wasn't based off of one on one play, it was based off importance to the game. Mikan was the first superstar, Russell won 11 titles and was a player/coach and he spoke out on political issues, Magic was the winner of Magic vs. Bird and that rivalry put the game on a whole other level, and MJ open up the business of the game and became the global face of basketball. I even explained it on my original Mt Rushmore post. Do I think Kobe could beat Russell one on one, hell yes. But do I think Russell was more important to basketball than Kobe, I do.
As for my actual top 10 in terms of skill, I said this before too, I don't put active players on my list. I am making an excuse for Kobe because he's played more minutes than many of the other players in my top 10. But I really don't think much about his place, other than I don't see him passing Magic, Jordan, Kareem, Russell as just a straight winner, and Mikan because of how Mikan dominated his era. That's what it's about. How good are you against your own era? Why? Because that's all you have to judge people by. Mikan was more dominate against his own era than Kobe was against his. Russell was way more dominate against his era than any other player in history. That's how I judge it. Maybe if Kobe retires, and I can properly look at his career, maybe I'll put him in my top 5. Maybe. I said the same thing about MJ, because Bulls fans were like you in the 90's. I REFUSED to put MJ in my top 5 because he was still playing. I couldn't accurately say he was a top 5 player when he only had 4 rings and he quit on basketball. Everyone was saying he was the greatest and I just rolled my eyes because he was still playing and I had no idea if he'd quit again, he'd get hurt, he'd leave the floor in the middle of the finals. And people yelled at me. But I take the same stance with Kobe, he ain't no top 5 player until I can put his career in prospective and judge him accordingly. I'll give him top 10, he has played so many minutes. Where? I don't know. I have to sit down and make a list. But top 5, for an active player, that's crazy.
OH, RUSSELL SPOKE OUT ON POLITICAL ISSUES, GOTCHYA
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https://instagram.com/p/4DA8p_ArPs/?taken-by=ancientflyers
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He's top 3. Ring argument is as autistic as it gets, absolute cop out.
Too early to really judge if you're cementing him in now. You guys act like if Love & Kyrie stay & stay healthy they won't win the East three more years in a row. If he repeats the next two years, still putting up absurd stats, it's a completely different resume lol. Not to mention he'll have been in his 7th straight Finals lmao.
But I understand most people hate him. As much as you truly want to believe most of you (& beyond this forum) can judge him fairly, there is an insurmountable amount of bias. Even to criticize him this year is a joke. It just goes to show subconsciously how good you know he really is if you believed he should of win this year. Because even as a fan, I knew he had no business winning this series. Just would of been so special if he did. I would of preferred the 2007 team to what happened to him after losing Kyrie & Love.
But yeah, he'll be back. He'll win & morons will make up different excuses. This thread is about 10 years too early lol.
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He's top 3. Ring argument is as autistic as it gets, absolute cop out.
Too early to really judge if you're cementing him in now. You guys act like if Love & Kyrie stay & stay healthy they won't win the East three more years in a row. If he repeats the next two years, still putting up absurd stats, it's a completely different resume lol. Not to mention he'll have been in his 7th straight Finals lmao.
But I understand most people hate him. As much as you truly want to believe most of you (& beyond this forum) can judge him fairly, there is an insurmountable amount of bias. Even to criticize him this year is a joke. It just goes to show subconsciously how good you know he really is if you believed he should of win this year. Because even as a fan, I knew he had no business winning this series. Just would of been so special if he did. I would of preferred the 2007 team to what happened to him after losing Kyrie & Love.
But yeah, he'll be back. He'll win & morons will make up different excuses. This thread is about 10 years too early lol.
so he didn't choke away an opportunity to go up 3-0?? so he didn't take 34 shots per game on under 40%?? so he wasn't guarded 1-on-1 the entire series?? so he didn't underperform in the clutch (once again)?? so he's not 2/6 in the finals??? roflmfao@top 3. stop that.
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
By the way, the only reason Jordan never lost a Finals is because in 95, he just wasn't good enough to get there.
lol@mdogg bein a laker homer...he just did that to spite kobe, as if u didnt know. again, these years in which lebron is losing the finals is only because he plays in the east. he'd be a first round exit every year if he played out west, and u do know that. and yes, 2/2 is better than 2/6 lmao.
btw kobe or jordan in lebron's shoes would be AT LEAST 4/6, and it's not even up for discussion.
So basically, LeBron would be a better player if he got bounced earlier and be 2/2?
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
By the way, the only reason Jordan never lost a Finals is because in 95, he just wasn't good enough to get there.
lol@mdogg bein a laker homer...he just did that to spite kobe, as if u didnt know. again, these years in which lebron is losing the finals is only because he plays in the east. he'd be a first round exit every year if he played out west, and u do know that. and yes, 2/2 is better than 2/6 lmao.
btw kobe or jordan in lebron's shoes would be AT LEAST 4/6, and it's not even up for discussion.
So basically, LeBron would be a better player if he got bounced earlier and be 2/2?
IN THE CASE OF SOME1 LIKE LEBRON, MOST DEFINITELY...BECAUSE HE'S KNOWN FOR UNDERPERFORMING IN BIGGER MOMENTS, AND THAT 2/6 JUST HELPS FURTHER PROVE THAT NOTION. THE FINALS IS WHEN EVERY1 BRINGS THEIR BEST, AND LEBRON'S BEST SIMPLY DOESN'T MEASURE UP, AS EVIDENT BY THE LOSING FINALS RECORD.
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
By the way, the only reason Jordan never lost a Finals is because in 95, he just wasn't good enough to get there.
lol@mdogg bein a laker homer...he just did that to spite kobe, as if u didnt know. again, these years in which lebron is losing the finals is only because he plays in the east. he'd be a first round exit every year if he played out west, and u do know that. and yes, 2/2 is better than 2/6 lmao.
btw kobe or jordan in lebron's shoes would be AT LEAST 4/6, and it's not even up for discussion.
So basically, LeBron would be a better player if he got bounced earlier and be 2/2?
LMFAO. Pretty much.
Dude, I've already discussed this. "Rings" & "Finals record" was not even a thing until LeBron entered the league. Nobody ever said "Oh, Allen Iverson in his prime sucked because he didn't win a ring" or "Karl Malone was awful" or "Charles Barkley was straight ass cheeks". Only after LeBron came into the league the MJ stans & the 3peat Laker stans created this new standard that eliminated how awful of a team you were on, what front management did for you & just said it was 100% rings....unless LeBron surpasses 3 rings...then there's nooo waaaay he's better than Bird & his hall of fame squad Celtics lol. Or god forbid he threepeats the next three seasons, "Kobe only lost twice". So in theory, Kobe not being able to do what LeBron tried to do in the Finals (twice) after Shaq left & got his ass kicked with Smush Parker left somehow helped his legacy lmao.
It's nothing more than a lame standard they created......but Elgin Baylor's one ring >>>>> Bill's 11.
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
By the way, the only reason Jordan never lost a Finals is because in 95, he just wasn't good enough to get there.
lol@mdogg bein a laker homer...he just did that to spite kobe, as if u didnt know. again, these years in which lebron is losing the finals is only because he plays in the east. he'd be a first round exit every year if he played out west, and u do know that. and yes, 2/2 is better than 2/6 lmao.
btw kobe or jordan in lebron's shoes would be AT LEAST 4/6, and it's not even up for discussion.
So basically, LeBron would be a better player if he got bounced earlier and be 2/2?
LMFAO. Pretty much.
Dude, I've already discussed this. "Rings" & "Finals record" was not even a thing until LeBron entered the league. Nobody ever said "Oh, Allen Iverson in his prime sucked because he didn't win a ring" or "Karl Malone was awful" or "Charles Barkley was straight ass cheeks". Only after LeBron came into the league the MJ stans & the 3peat Laker stans created this new standard that eliminated how awful of a team you were on, what front management did for you & just said it was 100% rings....unless LeBron surpasses 3 rings...then there's nooo waaaay he's better than Bird & his hall of fame squad Celtics lol. Or god forbid he threepeats the next three seasons, "Kobe only lost twice". So in theory, Kobe not being able to do what LeBron tried to do in the Finals (twice) after Shaq left & got his ass kicked with Smush Parker left somehow helped his legacy lmao.
It's nothing more than a lame standard they created......but Elgin Baylor's one ring >>>>> Bill's 11.
Giving LeBron haters too much credit. My earliest memory of the ring count came from Magic and Bird. Their whole battle was about rings. Jordan was on the side dunking with Wilkins and everyone else was doing their thing. But the Magic vs. Bird rivalry was defined by the ring count. People got on Barkley, Malone and others for not winning rings in the 90's.
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
By the way, the only reason Jordan never lost a Finals is because in 95, he just wasn't good enough to get there.
lol@mdogg bein a laker homer...he just did that to spite kobe, as if u didnt know. again, these years in which lebron is losing the finals is only because he plays in the east. he'd be a first round exit every year if he played out west, and u do know that. and yes, 2/2 is better than 2/6 lmao.
btw kobe or jordan in lebron's shoes would be AT LEAST 4/6, and it's not even up for discussion.
So basically, LeBron would be a better player if he got bounced earlier and be 2/2?
LMFAO. Pretty much.
Dude, I've already discussed this. "Rings" & "Finals record" was not even a thing until LeBron entered the league. Nobody ever said "Oh, Allen Iverson in his prime sucked because he didn't win a ring" or "Karl Malone was awful" or "Charles Barkley was straight ass cheeks". Only after LeBron came into the league the MJ stans & the 3peat Laker stans created this new standard that eliminated how awful of a team you were on, what front management did for you & just said it was 100% rings....unless LeBron surpasses 3 rings...then there's nooo waaaay he's better than Bird & his hall of fame squad Celtics lol. Or god forbid he threepeats the next three seasons, "Kobe only lost twice". So in theory, Kobe not being able to do what LeBron tried to do in the Finals (twice) after Shaq left & got his ass kicked with Smush Parker left somehow helped his legacy lmao.
It's nothing more than a lame standard they created......but Elgin Baylor's one ring >>>>> Bill's 11.
BUT LOOK AT THE PEOPLE U LISTED....THATS THE TIER LEBRON IS IN.....GET IT YET?
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Top 10 for sure, could become the GOAT if the Cavs threepeat now while he is still putting up absurd numbers and gangsta games.
You smoking?
Can't help it if you for some odd reason think that 2/2 is better than 2/6.... Jordan in his prime would have had NO chance in 2007 in LeBron's place. In any Finals he lost, he clearly had a vastly inferior team, except for 2011. And you're a certified Laker homer for putting Mikan in the top 4.
By the way, the only reason Jordan never lost a Finals is because in 95, he just wasn't good enough to get there.
lol@mdogg bein a laker homer...he just did that to spite kobe, as if u didnt know. again, these years in which lebron is losing the finals is only because he plays in the east. he'd be a first round exit every year if he played out west, and u do know that. and yes, 2/2 is better than 2/6 lmao.
btw kobe or jordan in lebron's shoes would be AT LEAST 4/6, and it's not even up for discussion.
So basically, LeBron would be a better player if he got bounced earlier and be 2/2?
LMFAO. Pretty much.
Dude, I've already discussed this. "Rings" & "Finals record" was not even a thing until LeBron entered the league. Nobody ever said "Oh, Allen Iverson in his prime sucked because he didn't win a ring" or "Karl Malone was awful" or "Charles Barkley was straight ass cheeks". Only after LeBron came into the league the MJ stans & the 3peat Laker stans created this new standard that eliminated how awful of a team you were on, what front management did for you & just said it was 100% rings....unless LeBron surpasses 3 rings...then there's nooo waaaay he's better than Bird & his hall of fame squad Celtics lol. Or god forbid he threepeats the next three seasons, "Kobe only lost twice". So in theory, Kobe not being able to do what LeBron tried to do in the Finals (twice) after Shaq left & got his ass kicked with Smush Parker left somehow helped his legacy lmao.
It's nothing more than a lame standard they created......but Elgin Baylor's one ring >>>>> Bill's 11.
BUT LOOK AT THE PEOPLE U LISTED....THATS THE TIER LEBRON IS IN.....GET IT YET?
That's a funny & cute comeback, but in reality it's facts. Malone wasn't shitted on because he didn't win. When he retired he was pretty much the undisputed greatest PF of all-time. Nobody cared. Just you. & when you sit back & realize why the ring argument means so much to you, it's because it's about where the "check" in the "check box" between the two ends for Kobe. Everything else other than "purer shooter" goes to LeBron.
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WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT? KOBE IS BETTER IN PRETTY MUCH EVERY FACET OF THE GAME
BETTER HANDLES- KOBE
BETTER SHOT- KOBE
BETTER OFFENSIVE ARSENAL- KOBE
BETTER FOOTWORK- KOBE
BETTER POST-MOVES- KOBE
BETTER OFF THE BALL- KOBE
BETTER DEFENDER- KOBE
THE ONLY THING LEBRON HAS ON KOBE IS LITERALLY SIZE AND ATHLETICISM....EVERYTHING ELSE GOES TO KOBE. IF NOT, WHY IS KOBE DOUBLE AND TRIPLE TEAMED WHILE LEBRON IS GUARDED 1-ON-1? AND IF LEBRON'S TEAMMATES ARE SO HORRIBLE, WHY WONT THEY DOUBLE OFF THEM? LOL. IT'S HILARIOUS.. LEBRON IS NOWHERE NEAR KOBE AND DEEP IN UR HEART U KNOW IT...FORGET RINGS. JUST AS PURE BASKETBALL PLAYERS. HE'S BETTER AT EVERY MEASURABLE FACET THAT IS ATTRIBUTED TO SKILL AS OPPOSED TO SIZE.
AND LIKE MDOGG ALREADY SAID, THE BIGGEST KNOCK ON MALONE AND BARKLEY WAS ALWAYS NO RINGS...ITS THE SOLE REASON SOME1 LIKE SHAQ IS REGARDED AS BEING A TIER HIGHER.
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Post moves? Defending? That's just straight up Kobe fan-ism.
Waiting for "B-B-B-BUT HE GUARDED THE BEST PLAYER ON EVERY TEAM!"...unless they were PGs, PFs or Centers...which was like a handful of allstars at SG or SF, who still got their 22+ & then a bunch of half ass SGs that round out the rest of the league.
LOCK DOWN BRO!
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Post moves? Defending? That's just straight up Kobe fan-ism.
Waiting for "B-B-B-BUT HE GUARDED THE BEST PLAYER ON EVERY TEAM!"...unless they were PGs, PFs or Centers...which was like a handful of allstars at SG or SF, who still got their 22+ & then a bunch of half ass SGs that round out the rest of the league.
LOCK DOWN BRO!
I DUNO IF U HIGH AS SHIT RIGHT NOW, OR MAYBE IM HIGH AS SHIT...BUT U NOT MAKIN ANY SENSE....IF IM READIN THAT CORRECTLY, UR QUESTION KOBE'S DEFENSE. I HOPE THATS NOT THE CASE. AND EVEN WORSE, I HOPE UR NOT TRYNA SAY LEBRON'S POST GAME IS ANYWHERE NEAR THE SAME LEVEL AS KOBE'S LMAO.
TO MAKE IT SIMPLE, KOBE IS BETTER IN EVERY FACET OF THE GAME THAT HAS TO DO WITH SKILL.....LEBRON IS SIMPLY MORE PHYSICALLY AND ATHLETICALLY GIFTED, BUT DOESNT HAVE ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE SKILL LEVEL OF KOBE.