West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: PLANT on December 07, 2015, 02:27:56 PM
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Michael Grange sums it up perfectly. How I've felt about Kobe for years. A great read.
Bryant among the most selfish, stubborn ever
DeMar DeRozan and Dwane Casey discuss their appreciation for Kobe Bryant's legendary career, and how surreal it will be to have a league without him.
MICHAEL GRANGE DECEMBER 7, 2015, 11:27 AM
TORONTO – On his way to the Hall of Fame, Kobe Bryant has become a Rorschach test.
Some people look at everything the Los Angeles Lakers star has accomplished, combined with his unbending will and five championship rings and think: There goes one of the best who ever was.
Others – and I am one – look at him and think: There goes one of the most selfish, stubborn and egocentric basketball players of all time.
Obviously with a career as long and storied as Bryant’s there is room for a range of opinion.
You can argue with how he plays and still agree that that he was an awesome player. I have him somewhere in my top-25 players of all time, a list that begins with Michael Jordan and doesn’t have Bryant in the top 15.
The obstacle to Bryant being higher on my list are twofold.
One is that he’s always been an inefficient player who seemed to confuse scoring a lot with playing well.
Even his single greatest season – 2005-06 when he averaged 35.4 points per game and famously dropped 81 points on the hapless Toronto Raptors – Bryant shot 45 per cent from the field, the same number he’s shot for his career. The year he scored the most was merely the year he shot the most, which is saying something.
Bryant’s most prolific high point was him turning the screw even tighter rather than finding some kind of new tool to use that was better than what he had before. It was like he’d discovered that a little salt would make dinner taste better, and decided even more salt would make it taste better still.
How is it possible that Bryant has never shot better than 47 per cent from the field, even once, in 20 seasons?
Given the quality of teammates he’s had, and how much ink has been spilled and video footage has been compiled aimed at illustrating how carefully he’s fine-tuned his skills over his career, you’d think at some point there would be some statistical evidence.
Bryant’s best shooting year was 46.9 per cent when he was 23. He never improved his efficiency after that. His best year as a three-point shooter came when he was 24 when he shot 38.3 per cent from deep, a mark he never approached again. His next best was when he was 18.
The other aspect of Bryant’s performance that holds him back from being a top-five or top-10 player is that Bryant’s greatness is really a story about staying power. He played at near peak performance for an incredible 15 seasons beginning when he became a starter at age 20. In contrast, Larry Bird’s best years were condensed into just eight years beginning at age 23.
But what Bryant never had was a period where he so clearly separated himself from his peers and put together seasons that are among the greatest ever.
Just using Basketball-Reference’s WinShares formula – a catch-all measurement that is handy for the always-awkward task of comparing players of different eras and positions – Bryant’s best years were only really good, not transcendent.
For all his great years, Bryant’s best year generated 15.3 WinShares. In contrast, Michael Jordan’s average for his 13 years with the Chicago Bulls was 15.7 and he had three seasons with more than 20, a threshold achieved by only five players ever.
Karl Malone’s best seasons were better than Bryant’s best, as were the best by Oscar Robertson, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett, Shaquille O’Neal, Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry and a lot of other players.
Bryant’s best-ever season doesn’t crack the top-100.
All of which isn’t to say Bryant shouldn’t be admitted to the Naismith Memorial Hall of Fame as soon as he is eligible.
He’s been an 11-time first-team all-NBA player, will retire as the league’s third all-time leading scorer and was a foundation piece of five NBA championship teams. He was first-team all-defence eight times, even though his career defensive rating of 105.24 is 41st among active players, but whatever.
My arguments are with those who look at the rings and look at the accumulation of numbers and figure he’s a top-five or top-10 player. It confuses quantity over quality.
My arguments are with those that look at his unwillingness to adapt his game and think that’s a strength, rather than proof that the only part of Bryant’s game that was truly at the top of the heap in the NBA was his ego.
It’s that same ego that’s undoing him now.
His farewell tour comes to Toronto with Bryant in the midst of one of the worst seasons by any NBA player ever.
He’s shooting 29 per cent from the floor and 22 per cent from the three-point line. No one has ever shot that poorly over the course of an NBA season while averaging at least 10 shots and four threes a game. Kobe is taking 20 and nine, respectively.
It’s not just his numbers.
It’s that he’s so determined to keep playing the same way he always has, despite coming off three seasons ended, in order, by a torn Achilles tendon, a fractured knee cap and a torn rotator cuff.
He’s had plenty of time to read the writing on the wall, and it says, in big bold letters, ‘Your time is done. Your body can’t be bent by your will any longer.’
Which is different than quit.
There is no objection here to Bryant playing out his last season. He’s under contract for $24 million. If he retires now he won’t get the rest of his money. If he wants to enjoy a farewell tour, so be it.
The question I have is why is he insisting on going out this way?
Why is a player all about winning spending his last season on a 3-17 team playing in a way that’s almost certainly going to facilitate losing – unless of course his plan is to play so badly that the Lakers are assured of keeping their first-round draft pick this summer (they need to finish no worse than third-last or else the pick goes to the Philadelphia 76ers.)
There are obvious things Bryant could be doing in his last go around that would put a better shine on a season as miserable as this one.
The Lakers are a young team with at least two young players who are being counted on to be part of the storied franchise’s turnaround that can only truly begin when Bryant finally retires.
There are obvious ways that Bryant could be helping the development of budding star Julius Randle and rookie D’Angelo Russell.
He could demonstrate to them that it’s important to adapt your game to the circumstances that you’re in, rather than keep forcing a round peg into a square hole.
He could show them the difference between a good shot and a bad shot.
He could show them that the most important thing when the ball goes up is winning the game, not imposing your own agenda.
He could be showing them that a winning team is never about one individual standing above the rest.
Any and all of those lessons could be Bryant’s final gift to the franchise that has given him so much.
But it appears that for all his greatness, that’s one job he’s not qualified for.
Kobe’s going down gun’s blazing. He doesn’t know anything different.
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The worlds greatest chucker who rode the coattails of big men to five championships. Robin, not Batman.
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U WILL NEVER FIND A RESPECTED COACH, NBA PLAYER, GM OR ANYONE WITHIN THE GAME WHO SAYS SOMETHING LIKE THIS....ONLY THE NERDS WHO DONT MATTER, WATCH BASKETBALL THROUGH BOXSCORES AND NEVER PICKED UP A BALL IN THEIR LIFE HAVE IT IN THEM TO TALK DOWN ON THE GOAT...... BOOK IT.
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JUST LOOKED UP DUDE WHO WROTE THE ARTICLE
(http://assets1.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GRANGE_MICHAEL.png)
POINT PROVEN
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the GOAT? LMAO
The points made are all valid, and prove Kobe to be not as great as you would assume. Great player, no doubt. But not as legendary as some make him out to be.
Does it really matter what the guy looks like who wrote this article?
Anyone could post your picture on here with the caption "Jewish Rapper" - Point Proven
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the GOAT? LMAO
The points made are all valid, and prove Kobe to be not as great as you would assume. Great player, no doubt. But not as legendary as some make him out to be.
Does it really matter what the guy looks like who wrote this article?
Anyone could post your picture on here with the caption "Jewish Rapper" - Point Proven
You didn't make any point right now, you can go to my Instagram and see all my pics if you want www.instagram.com/lasmostblunted ..
This article is a farce.. Do you know advanced stats show that dikembe mutombo was as good as Shaq in 2000? Stats can be manipulated to show anything .. The point that I was making was that it's usually analytical geeks and people who have no history playing the actual game who try to discredit Kobe ..... It's never the actual players or people involved in the history. In fact, those who have played with or against Kobe would slap this nerd in his face .. So who u gone listen to, a nerd who never played ball or the players who actually play the game??
Not a hard choice.
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http://www.viralhoops.com/kobe-bryant-motivational-stories/
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kevin durant "greatest player ever":
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kevin-durant--kobe-bryant-is--the-greatest-of-all-time---kobe-and-michael-jordan-are--1-and-1a-213142314.html
dywane wade "greatest player of our era":
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/dwyane-wade-kobe-bryant-greatest-player
dirk nowitzki "greatest player of this generation":
http://www.axs.com/dirk-nowitzki-calls-kobe-bryant-probably-the-greatest-player-in-his-ge-33788
brandon jennings "greatest player of all-time":
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2014/08/20/brandon-jennings-says-kobe-bryant-not-michael-jordan-is-the-greatest-of-all-time/
jerry west "greatest laker ever":
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/is-kobe-the-best-laker-ever-jerry-west-and-magic-johnson-think-so/
magic johnson "greatest laker ever":
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/is-kobe-the-best-laker-ever-jerry-west-and-magic-johnson-think-so/
michael jordan "i could beat lebron 1-on-1 but probably not kobe":
http://www.lakersnation.com/michael-jordan-says-kobe-could-beat-him-1-on-1-not-lebron/2013/10/01/
jalen rose "we wont see another kobe":
http://www.businessinsider.com/jalen-rose-explains-why-nba-wont-see-another-kobe-bryant-2015-12
phil jackson "Kobe is more skilled than Michael":
http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-forum/408318-phil-jackson-said-kobe-more-skilled-than-jordan.html
mark jackson "Kobe is the greatest of all time":
http://forums.lakersground.net/togo/thread.php?topic_id=21927
larry bird "i rather play with kobe than lebron if it was about winning":
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/larry-bird-team-kobe-win-lebron-fun-191427315.html
shaq "kobe s the greatest laker ever":
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/31/shaquille-oneal-calls-kobe-bryant-the-greatest-laker-ever-puts-work-beef-firmly-to-rest/
all off top.......but of course, a welching faggot like u would rather listen to:
(http://assets1.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GRANGE_MICHAEL.png)
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Volume scorer who had others do the heavy lifting.
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Volume scorer who had others do the heavy lifting.
you're a James harden fan talkin about "volume scorer"..... Kill yaself
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I dont think the guy who wrote that article was the person who came up with all those stats. The stats on Kobe are out there, and have been for years. Advanced or not. FG% and FGA are not advanced stats or anything new. The fact is and has always been Kobe stays chuckin them up no matter what, and thats what hes done his whole career. He never was able to transform his game from aerial/drive/slash to the shooter Jordan became, or build other areas of his game up like assists and rebounds. He just kinda stayed the same, and threw up those shots for better or worse while still getting his.
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And I can tell this hurts and gets under your skin by the way you dug up all those quotes and searched for the reporter who wrote the article LMAO....too much time on your hands plus you get hard for the Kobinator
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Kobe is top 12 all time.
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I dont think the guy who wrote that article was the person who came up with all those stats. The stats on Kobe are out there, and have been for years. Advanced or not. FG% and FGA are not advanced stats or anything new. The fact is and has always been Kobe stays chuckin them up no matter what, and thats what hes done his whole career. He never was able to transform his game from aerial/drive/slash to the shooter Jordan became, or build other areas of his game up like assists and rebounds. He just kinda stayed the same, and threw up those shots for better or worse while still getting his.
the shooter jordan became? godamn, you are a retard...kobe was a much better shooter than jordan ever was, hence the lower fg%...the more range you have, the lower your fg% will naturally be. are you saying shaq is a better shooter than jordan because he shoots a better percentage? you can't be this stupid......kobe needed to transform his game? lmao. what kinda dumbass fruitcake says shit like this?..listen to yourself. now he needs to "up his assists and rebounds"?? Kobe and Jordan have pretty much the same assists and rebounds per game as one another......kobe stayed the same? wtf are u talkin about. it is well documented by pretty much anyone who knows anything that kobe worked on his game more than any single player in the history of the league.....you just lost any shred of credibility you ever had making this post above. kobe is a 45% career shooter, which is GOOD for a shooting guard, especially for one who about 20% of his shots consist of three pointers (in comparison, about 5% of jordan's shots were threes, due to the fact that he didn't have the range)...thats why jordan and kobe have a similar TRUE SHOOTING PERCENTAGE (for the advanced stat geeks)....not to mention, zone defense rules came into existence and all-around athleticism went way up when kobe entered the league, a wing dominant league, as opposed to the big dominant league jordan played in, where he was guarded by the likes of craig ehlo and hersey hawkins....this means kobe saw way more double and triple teams than jordan ever did, and was even double-teamed off the ball, which wasn't allowed in jordan's day (defunct illegal defense rule).....at the end of the day, i've never seen anyone who wasn't a nerd try to discredit kobe's greatness. case in point, the welcher named PLANT.
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And I can tell this hurts and gets under your skin by the way you dug up all those quotes and searched for the reporter who wrote the article LMAO....too much time on your hands plus you get hard for the Kobinator
"the kobinator"? can u sound any gayer??
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Jordan started winning championships by passing the ball and taking smart shots. Kobe somehow won with Shaq and Pau pulling in Kobe Assists.
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Jordan started winning championships by passing the ball and taking smart shots. Kobe somehow won with Shaq and Pau pulling in Kobe Assists.
And James harden has never won so u don't even belong in the discussion
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Ahh the strawman routine
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Real talk always wins
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Sccit you have zero credibility on this site since you have the most biased opinion and everyone knows you ride Kobes jock more than Vanessa does. Not many of the comments you make are ever taken seriously in the sports section, and you have no chill when it comes to Kobe.
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Luckily we only have to deal with him for a few more months before he commits seppuku during Kobe's last game.
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LOL. I wonder whos jock is next after Kobe retires?
Or maybe NIK will retire from DubCC when Kobe retires from the NBA. You know that post count is 3/4 full of straight Kobe dick riding.
I bet LAMB has a Kobe dedication track in the works right now :laugh:
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Sccit you have zero credibility on this site since you have the most biased opinion and everyone knows you ride Kobes jock more than Vanessa does. Not many of the comments you make are ever taken seriously in the sports section, and you have no chill when it comes to Kobe.
considering youre a retard who has zero basketball knowledge, probably never played the game, and are known for welching on bets, i'm pretty sure my credibility is a tad bit higher than yours......
and if u dont wanna take my word for it, u can take the word of the countless nba legends i posted quotes from......or be a fuckin faggot and take the word of some salty journalist who looks like he can be your older brother.
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This is pretty dumb. Outside of watching him my whole life you can't discount what his peers and those who played before him say about him. Yeah he rubbed people the wrong way but the guy is universally respected as one of the greats.
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This is pretty dumb. Outside of watching him my whole life you can't discount what his peers and those who played before him say about him. Yeah he rubbed people the wrong way but the guy is universally respected as one of the greats.
i think i know why this welching faggot from canada is mad
https://www.youtube.com/v/AQd2h4X0O2E
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This is pretty dumb. Outside of watching him my whole life you can't discount what his peers and those who played before him say about him. Yeah he rubbed people the wrong way but the guy is universally respected as one of the greats.
Theres no disputing hes one of the greats. One of the greats can still be a top 20-25 player of all time.
Hes not better than Jordan, Magic, Bird, Oscar, Wilt, Kareem, or LeBron. A lot of people who watched both say that Jerry West was better as well. NIK thinks its a given that Kobe is the second greatest or even better than MJ. The fact players are saying hes one of the greats is no surprise, but its not like theyre straight up saying hes better than this guy or that guy either. All depends on what your opinion is of "one of the greats"
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How predictable, NIK now coming with the old "welching fag from canada" insults since Im not stuck to Kobes nut sack.
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This is pretty dumb. Outside of watching him my whole life you can't discount what his peers and those who played before him say about him. Yeah he rubbed people the wrong way but the guy is universally respected as one of the greats.
. One of the greats can still be a top 20-25 player of all time.
Hes not better than LeBron.
LMFAO U ARE FINISHED....EVEN HIS BIGGEST HATERS WHO WANT TO SEE HIM DIE DONT RANK HIM OUTSIDE THE 10-15, AND THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR LIFE TRYNA DISCREDIT HIS GREATNESS. THE FUNNY PART IS THAT ROCKET GROUPIE IS TROLLING, BUT UR NON-BASKETBALL PLAYING ASS ACTUALLY BELIEVES WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. INCREDILE
The fact players are saying hes one of the greats is no surprise, but its not like theyre straight up saying hes better than this guy or that guy either. All depends on what your opinion is of "one of the greats"
NOBODY IS SAYING HE'S "ONE OF THE GREATS"...READ THE QUOTE AGAIN, GAYBOY. THEY'RE CALLING HIM THE GREATEST LAKER, GREATEST OF ALL TIME, GREATEST OF THIS GENERATION...NOT "TOP 20-25"...I SWEAR TO GOD, U DESERVE TO BE STOMPED OUT FOR BEING THIS DUMB.
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How predictable, NIK now coming with the old "welching fag from canada" insults since Im not stuck to Kobes nut sack.
NO, NOT BECAUSE OF THAT......BECAUSE YOU'RE A WELCHING FAG FROM CANADA.
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How predictable, NIK now coming with the old "welching fag from canada" insults since Im not stuck to Kobes nut sack.
NO, NOT BECAUSE OF THAT......BECAUSE YOU'RE A WELCHING FAG FROM CANADA.
doesnt bother me coming from a wannabe jewish rapper who lives off his rich parents and goes to sleep with Kobe posters on the ceiling of his bedroom. Might as well call a spade a spade
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How predictable, NIK now coming with the old "welching fag from canada" insults since Im not stuck to Kobes nut sack.
NO, NOT BECAUSE OF THAT......BECAUSE YOU'RE A WELCHING FAG FROM CANADA.
doesnt bother me coming from a wannabe jewish rapper who lives off his rich parents and goes to sleep with Kobe posters on the ceiling of his bedroom. Might as well call a spade a spade
U LIVIN IN 2008, AROUND THE YEAR YOUR FRUITY ASS WELCHED ON OUR BET.....COME TO LA, I'LL BE GLAD TO SPIT A FREESTYLE SHITTING ON YOUR ENTIRE EXISTENCE RIGHT IN YOUR FACE AND THEN TIE YOU UP IN MY SELF-OWNED BASEMENT, WHERE I'LL BE BLASTIN RE-RUNS OF OLD LAKER GAMES 24/7 TIL U GET TURNED OUT..........HOMO
OH YEA, AND GO BUY VIOLENCE OF THA LAMBZ, U BITCH
http://lasmostblunted.bigcartel.com
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Replaying old Laker games, that's all you will be doing for the next decade.
Drinking Bacardi, crying, singing I Miss You by Aaron Hall
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Replaying old Laker games, that's all you will be doing for the next decade.
Drinking Bacardi, crying, singing I Miss You by Aaron Hall
Quit lyin, I know u saw dangelo russel and julius randle beastin the other night
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Nothing wrong with Kobe being 11th best all time