West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: love33 on January 18, 2017, 03:39:17 PM
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Does anyone have Tha Realest's hit "Special Kind of Mother [Dear Mama]" Series? I know there were 3 tracks that leaked out -- can someone post them up here, that would be cool if you could Youtube it
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Does anyone have Tha Realest's hit "Special Kind of Mother [Dear Mama]" Series?
lmao :D
in order for a song to be a "hit" it must be popular and have radio play or even talked about highly and of course profitable
which in tha fakest case hes never had a successful song ever lol
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Does anyone have Tha Realest's hit "Special Kind of Mother [Dear Mama]" Series?
lmao :D
in order for a song to be a "hit" it must be popular and have radio play or even talked about highly and of course profitable
which in tha fakest case hes never had a successful song ever lol
Man, you must be smokin somethin good - This wasn't meant to be a thread asking whether or not you liked a certain artist -- and if you want to talk hits, Tha Realest was allover a Platinum album ("Gang Related") -- Many of the artist on the radio today have NEVER been on a Platinum Album -- Tha Realest "Easy To Be A Soldier" and Tha Realest "Because Of You Girl" was featured on the Hit Album "The Chronic 2000: Suge Knight Represents" and he also helped with "Unconditional Love" by 2Pac and was actually told to freestyle by 2Pac himself before he gave him props and he was eventually signed.
Anyway, back to topic -- does Anyone have the "Special Kind of Mother" 3 Versions they can upload to Youtube?
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Does anyone have Tha Realest's hit "Special Kind of Mother [Dear Mama]" Series?
lmao :D
in order for a song to be a "hit" it must be popular and have radio play or even talked about highly and of course profitable
which in tha fakest case hes never had a successful song ever lol
Man, you must be smokin somethin good - This wasn't meant to be a thread asking whether or not you liked a certain artist -- and if you want to talk hits, Tha Realest was allover a Platinum album ("Gang Related") -- Many of the artist on the radio today have NEVER been on a Platinum Album -- Tha Realest "Easy To Be A Soldier" and Tha Realest "Because Of You Girl" was featured on the Hit Album "The Chronic 2000: Suge Knight Represents" and he also helped with "Unconditional Love" by 2Pac and was actually told to freestyle by 2Pac himself before he gave him props and he was eventually signed.
Anyway, back to topic -- does Anyone have the "Special Kind of Mother" 3 Versions they can upload to Youtube?
"Unconditional Love" lol what did he do for that song it isnt even his
"Gang Related" sold thanks to 2pac and pretty much the end of dr and was a comp ost not tha fakest album and what shit you smoking thinking that fake met pac it never happened
jflex was the one who discovered tha fakest and he never met pac
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Does anyone have Tha Realest's hit "Special Kind of Mother [Dear Mama]" Series?
lmao :D
in order for a song to be a "hit" it must be popular and have radio play or even talked about highly and of course profitable
which in tha fakest case hes never had a successful song ever lol
Man, you must be smokin somethin good - This wasn't meant to be a thread asking whether or not you liked a certain artist -- and if you want to talk hits, Tha Realest was allover a Platinum album ("Gang Related") -- Many of the artist on the radio today have NEVER been on a Platinum Album -- Tha Realest "Easy To Be A Soldier" and Tha Realest "Because Of You Girl" was featured on the Hit Album "The Chronic 2000: Suge Knight Represents" and he also helped with "Unconditional Love" by 2Pac and was actually told to freestyle by 2Pac himself before he gave him props and he was eventually signed.
Anyway, back to topic -- does Anyone have the "Special Kind of Mother" 3 Versions they can upload to Youtube?
"Unconditional Love" lol what did he do for that song it isnt even his
"Gang Related" sold thanks to 2pac and pretty much the end of dr and was a comp ost not tha fakest album and what shit you smoking thinking that fake met pac it never happened
jflex was the one who discovered tha fakest and he never met pac
Realest said he met Pac and freestyled for him i think it was at the Tyson fight, and my fav track on Gang Related was Top Dogg "Goin Back to Cali" - and Death Row continued to chart hit records even after Gang Related - I think the double album "Until The End Of Time" put Death Row back on top of the charts and hit #1, not to mention Chronic 2K had some hits and was GOLD, and Snoop Dead Man Walkin charted and Tha Dogg Pound "2002" charted and 2pac Nu-Mixxes charted (go look it up) - Tha Row pretty much fell off when the Crooked I album never got dropped and O remember it got renamed to "Hood Star" and I was losing interest - Eastwood almost saved the label, but no promotion or push happened, then Suge brought Petey Pablo on and he recorded 3 albums and same thing no real push no real promotion...I think the label really started to die around 2003 when they kept delaying Crook's album and he released the single and Suge got mad and told him to go record it again -- and I remember an interview with Crook sayin he doesnt understand why he doesnt drop the damn album he recorded 5 albums - then it was pretty much over and done when they had zero promotion and Crook knew his career was over
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
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Does anyone have Tha Realest's hit "Special Kind of Mother [Dear Mama]" Series?
lmao :D
in order for a song to be a "hit" it must be popular and have radio play or even talked about highly and of course profitable
which in tha fakest case hes never had a successful song ever lol
Man, you must be smokin somethin good - This wasn't meant to be a thread asking whether or not you liked a certain artist -- and if you want to talk hits, Tha Realest was allover a Platinum album ("Gang Related") -- Many of the artist on the radio today have NEVER been on a Platinum Album -- Tha Realest "Easy To Be A Soldier" and Tha Realest "Because Of You Girl" was featured on the Hit Album "The Chronic 2000: Suge Knight Represents" and he also helped with "Unconditional Love" by 2Pac and was actually told to freestyle by 2Pac himself before he gave him props and he was eventually signed.
Anyway, back to topic -- does Anyone have the "Special Kind of Mother" 3 Versions they can upload to Youtube?
"Unconditional Love" lol what did he do for that song it isnt even his
"Gang Related" sold thanks to 2pac and pretty much the end of dr and was a comp ost not tha fakest album and what shit you smoking thinking that fake met pac it never happened
jflex was the one who discovered tha fakest and he never met pac
Realest said he met Pac and freestyled for him i think it was at the Tyson fight, and my fav track on Gang Related was Top Dogg "Goin Back to Cali" - and Death Row continued to chart hit records even after Gang Related - I think the double album "Until The End Of Time" put Death Row back on top of the charts and hit #1, not to mention Chronic 2K had some hits and was GOLD, and Snoop Dead Man Walkin charted and Tha Dogg Pound "2002" charted and 2pac Nu-Mixxes charted (go look it up) - Tha Row pretty much fell off when the Crooked I album never got dropped and O remember it got renamed to "Hood Star" and I was losing interest - Eastwood almost saved the label, but no promotion or push happened, then Suge brought Petey Pablo on and he recorded 3 albums and same thing no real push no real promotion...I think the label really started to die around 2003 when they kept delaying Crook's album and he released the single and Suge got mad and told him to go record it again -- and I remember an interview with Crook sayin he doesnt understand why he doesnt drop the damn album he recorded 5 albums - then it was pretty much over and done when they had zero promotion and Crook knew his career was over
that was a lie they never met
jflex discovered fakest there was never no tyson fight freestyle
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
that pretty much sums it up
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
WRONG! Dogg Pound "2002" debuted at #15
https://books.google.com/books?id=Mg8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=dogg+pound+2002+billboard&source=bl&ots=Zk6mDrTDSt&sig=or0HyuJHNYGuS8sAPA32vxWjL3s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0qdKi-_XRAhWIg1QKHQRFArYQ6AEINjAF#v=onepage&q=dogg%20pound%202002%20billboard&f=false
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I wanna hear these songs I can ONLY find 1 version -- the 2nd remix is the best one, I can't find it!
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
WRONG! Dogg Pound "2002" debuted at #15
https://books.google.com/books?id=Mg8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=dogg+pound+2002+billboard&source=bl&ots=Zk6mDrTDSt&sig=or0HyuJHNYGuS8sAPA32vxWjL3s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0qdKi-_XRAhWIg1QKHQRFArYQ6AEINjAF#v=onepage&q=dogg%20pound%202002%20billboard&f=false
Who much did it sell though?
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
WRONG! Dogg Pound "2002" debuted at #15
https://books.google.com/books?id=Mg8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=dogg+pound+2002+billboard&source=bl&ots=Zk6mDrTDSt&sig=or0HyuJHNYGuS8sAPA32vxWjL3s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0qdKi-_XRAhWIg1QKHQRFArYQ6AEINjAF#v=onepage&q=dogg%20pound%202002%20billboard&f=false
Who much did it sell though?
im going to guess no more then 5k and that's being generous since a year before too gangsta for radio couldn't even sell 1500 copy's in its 1st week
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
WRONG! Dogg Pound "2002" debuted at #15
https://books.google.com/books?id=Mg8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=dogg+pound+2002+billboard&source=bl&ots=Zk6mDrTDSt&sig=or0HyuJHNYGuS8sAPA32vxWjL3s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0qdKi-_XRAhWIg1QKHQRFArYQ6AEINjAF#v=onepage&q=dogg%20pound%202002%20billboard&f=false
Who much did it sell though?
im going to guess no more then 5k and that's being generous since a year before too gangsta for radio couldn't even sell 1500 copy's in its 1st week
Too Gangsta For Radio sold 8k copy's in it's first week and 3k in the second week, so I don't know what you talking about.
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
WRONG! Dogg Pound "2002" debuted at #15
https://books.google.com/books?id=Mg8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=dogg+pound+2002+billboard&source=bl&ots=Zk6mDrTDSt&sig=or0HyuJHNYGuS8sAPA32vxWjL3s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0qdKi-_XRAhWIg1QKHQRFArYQ6AEINjAF#v=onepage&q=dogg%20pound%202002%20billboard&f=false
Who much did it sell though?
im going to guess no more then 5k and that's being generous since a year before too gangsta for radio couldn't even sell 1500 copy's in its 1st week
Too Gangsta For Radio sold 8k copy's in it's first week and 3k in the second week, so I don't know what you talking about.
so im off couple gs still very very horrible numbers i must of got the numbers mixed up with that fake 2pacs debut album overall sales :D
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
WRONG! Dogg Pound "2002" debuted at #15
https://books.google.com/books?id=Mg8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=dogg+pound+2002+billboard&source=bl&ots=Zk6mDrTDSt&sig=or0HyuJHNYGuS8sAPA32vxWjL3s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0qdKi-_XRAhWIg1QKHQRFArYQ6AEINjAF#v=onepage&q=dogg%20pound%202002%20billboard&f=false
Who much did it sell though?
im going to guess no more then 5k and that's being generous since a year before too gangsta for radio couldn't even sell 1500 copy's in its 1st week
Too Gangsta For Radio sold 8k copy's in it's first week and 3k in the second week, so I don't know what you talking about.
altogether how much in total did dpg 2002, too gangsta 4 radio, dead man walkin and chronic 2000 sell?
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
WRONG! Dogg Pound "2002" debuted at #15
https://books.google.com/books?id=Mg8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=dogg+pound+2002+billboard&source=bl&ots=Zk6mDrTDSt&sig=or0HyuJHNYGuS8sAPA32vxWjL3s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0qdKi-_XRAhWIg1QKHQRFArYQ6AEINjAF#v=onepage&q=dogg%20pound%202002%20billboard&f=false
Who much did it sell though?
im going to guess no more then 5k and that's being generous since a year before too gangsta for radio couldn't even sell 1500 copy's in its 1st week
Too Gangsta For Radio sold 8k copy's in it's first week and 3k in the second week, so I don't know what you talking about.
altogether how much in total did dpg 2002, too gangsta 4 radio, dead man walkin and chronic 2000 sell?
i would guess no more then 1 1/2 million since all 4 did horrible numbers and chronic 2000 did less then a mil and that was the best seller out of the 4
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Tha Dogg Pound "2002" was HUUUGE -- they played "Change The Game Remix" EVERYWHERE -- "Gangsta Rap" single was allover Los Angeles --- The album went GOLD -- Above The Law was braggin about the record sales on the record Big Hutch said it's a 500k record and that the Daz & Jay-Z song along with the Gangsta Rap put it over!
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Tha Dogg Pound "2002" was HUUUGE -- they played "Change The Game Remix" EVERYWHERE -- "Gangsta Rap" single was allover Los Angeles --- The album went GOLD -- Above The Law was braggin about the record sales on the record Big Hutch said it's a 500k record and that the Daz & Jay-Z song along with the Gangsta Rap put it over!
lmao huge where in Europe? :D i actually got the album when it first came out here in the states dr was pretty much dead already and there was zero radio play there was nothing popping in the west since dre 2001 and before that 2pac the focus was on the east and the rising dirty south
and Big Hutch is a fucking lie cause makaveli was the last successful dr album and i hardly doubt Tha Dogg Pound "2002" even went gold
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Tha Dogg Pound "2002" was HUUUGE -- they played "Change The Game Remix" EVERYWHERE -- "Gangsta Rap" single was allover Los Angeles --- The album went GOLD -- Above The Law was braggin about the record sales on the record Big Hutch said it's a 500k record and that the Daz & Jay-Z song along with the Gangsta Rap put it over!
lmao huge where in Europe? :D i actually got the album when it first came out here in the states dr was pretty much dead already and there was zero radio play there was nothing popping in the west since dre 2001 and before that 2pac the focus was on the east and the rising dirty south
and Big Hutch is a fucking lie cause makaveli was the last successful dr album and i hardly doubt Tha Dogg Pound "2002" even went gold
Since Makaveli, Death Row had put out:
Greatest Hits (platinum plus)
Gridlock'd soundtrack (platinum plus)
Gang Related soundtrack (double platinum)
Daz solo (gold)
Pac Greatest Hits (diamond)
Chronic 2k (gold)
so your misinformed again.
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"Retaliation, Revenge & Get Back" didn't go gold, according to Snoop Dogg.
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Tha Dogg Pound "2002" was HUUUGE -- they played "Change The Game Remix" EVERYWHERE -- "Gangsta Rap" single was allover Los Angeles --- The album went GOLD -- Above The Law was braggin about the record sales on the record Big Hutch said it's a 500k record and that the Daz & Jay-Z song along with the Gangsta Rap put it over!
lmao huge where in Europe? :D i actually got the album when it first came out here in the states dr was pretty much dead already and there was zero radio play there was nothing popping in the west since dre 2001 and before that 2pac the focus was on the east and the rising dirty south
and Big Hutch is a fucking lie cause makaveli was the last successful dr album and i hardly doubt Tha Dogg Pound "2002" even went gold
Since Makaveli, Death Row had put out:
Greatest Hits (platinum plus)
Gridlock'd soundtrack (platinum plus)
Gang Related soundtrack (double platinum)
Daz solo (gold)
Pac Greatest Hits (diamond)
Chronic 2k (gold)
so your misinformed again.
and shows how dr couldnt stand on its two feet without pac
Chronic 2k (gold)
Daz solo (gold)
still horrible take pac off the other projects and it would have failed too pac was dr
so your misinformed again
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"Retaliation, Revenge & Get Back" didn't go gold, according to Snoop Dogg.
im surprised it went gold in numbers but wouldn't be surprised if it was all a lie i cant think of a stand out track to that album even the pac one
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Tha Dogg Pound "2002" was HUUUGE -- they played "Change The Game Remix" EVERYWHERE -- "Gangsta Rap" single was allover Los Angeles --- The album went GOLD -- Above The Law was braggin about the record sales on the record Big Hutch said it's a 500k record and that the Daz & Jay-Z song along with the Gangsta Rap put it over!
lmao huge where in Europe? :D i actually got the album when it first came out here in the states dr was pretty much dead already and there was zero radio play there was nothing popping in the west since dre 2001 and before that 2pac the focus was on the east and the rising dirty south
and Big Hutch is a fucking lie cause makaveli was the last successful dr album and i hardly doubt Tha Dogg Pound "2002" even went gold
Since Makaveli, Death Row had put out:
Greatest Hits (platinum plus)
Gridlock'd soundtrack (platinum plus)
Gang Related soundtrack (double platinum)
Daz solo (gold)
Pac Greatest Hits (diamond)
Chronic 2k (gold)
so your misinformed again.
Exactly, and Big Hutch's manager said "Tha Dogg Pound 2002" was Gold but they never registered with the RIAA
I also believe Chronic 2K was Gold because I remember reading it in The Source and Suge also said it was Gold (again, they never registered with the RIAA, but for double cds, each unit counts as 2 sales)
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Back then there were only four countries in Europe that had noticeable amounts of people following USA rap and that's UK, Poland, Germany and possibly France. Anywhere else there was either no interest or it was all coming in as bootlegs, so I doubt any of those did any major numbers in Europe
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Tha Dogg Pound "2002" was HUUUGE -- they played "Change The Game Remix" EVERYWHERE -- "Gangsta Rap" single was allover Los Angeles --- The album went GOLD -- Above The Law was braggin about the record sales on the record Big Hutch said it's a 500k record and that the Daz & Jay-Z song along with the Gangsta Rap put it over!
lmao huge where in Europe? :D i actually got the album when it first came out here in the states dr was pretty much dead already and there was zero radio play there was nothing popping in the west since dre 2001 and before that 2pac the focus was on the east and the rising dirty south
and Big Hutch is a fucking lie cause makaveli was the last successful dr album and i hardly doubt Tha Dogg Pound "2002" even went gold
Since Makaveli, Death Row had put out:
Greatest Hits (platinum plus)
Gridlock'd soundtrack (platinum plus)
Gang Related soundtrack (double platinum)
Daz solo (gold)
Pac Greatest Hits (diamond)
Chronic 2k (gold)
so your misinformed again.
Exactly, and Big Hutch's manager said "Tha Dogg Pound 2002" was Gold but they never registered with the RIAA
I also believe Chronic 2K was Gold because I remember reading it in The Source and Suge also said it was Gold (again, they never registered with the RIAA, but for double cds, each unit counts as 2 sales)
most Death Row albums are under certified so you may be right, the RIAA still lists Doggystyle at 4xplat and the Chronic at 3xplat
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Tha Dogg Pound "2002" was HUUUGE -- they played "Change The Game Remix" EVERYWHERE -- "Gangsta Rap" single was allover Los Angeles --- The album went GOLD -- Above The Law was braggin about the record sales on the record Big Hutch said it's a 500k record and that the Daz & Jay-Z song along with the Gangsta Rap put it over!
2002 was not huge by any means. Change The Game Remix came out 6 months earlier before 2002 on DJ Clue's The Professional Part 2 and most people associate it with that album, not with 2002.
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Tha Dogg Pound "2002" was HUUUGE -- they played "Change The Game Remix" EVERYWHERE -- "Gangsta Rap" single was allover Los Angeles --- The album went GOLD -- Above The Law was braggin about the record sales on the record Big Hutch said it's a 500k record and that the Daz & Jay-Z song along with the Gangsta Rap put it over!
2002 was not huge by any means. Change The Game Remix came out 6 months earlier before 2002 on DJ Clue's The Professional Part 2 and most people associate it with that album, not with 2002.
A debut at #15 is not bad by any stretch
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Tha Dogg Pound "2002" was HUUUGE -- they played "Change The Game Remix" EVERYWHERE -- "Gangsta Rap" single was allover Los Angeles --- The album went GOLD -- Above The Law was braggin about the record sales on the record Big Hutch said it's a 500k record and that the Daz & Jay-Z song along with the Gangsta Rap put it over!
2002 was not huge by any means. Change The Game Remix came out 6 months earlier before 2002 on DJ Clue's The Professional Part 2 and most people associate it with that album, not with 2002.
A debut at #15 is not bad by any stretch
a debut always doesn't mean $$$ trust me this didn't sell shit
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Does the Change The Game Remix with Jay Z and co exist with DJ Clue hollering like an angry lemur?
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Does the Change The Game Remix with Jay Z and co exist with DJ Clue hollering like an angry lemur?
Don't think so. That remix was made specifically for Clue's album.
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Does the Change The Game Remix with Jay Z and co exist with DJ Clue hollering like an angry lemur?
Don't think so. That remix was made specifically for Clue's album.
I had the feeling that was the case but then again I do remember hearing untagged versions of Clues albums that were released for promo, same thing with DJ Envy. They were limited press releases but they were out there.
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Death Row died when 2Pac did...Suge went to jail and everyone started leaving the label after that, all those compilations never sold except for Pac's
Exactly. Everything they sold after 1996 was based off connections to their old artists and the brand they established. Tupac soundtracks sold because they were soundtracks to his films and they were promoting new unreleased music from him. Chronic 2000 sold because it was attempting to tie into Dre's new album. 2Pac albums were not selling based on the Death Row brand as "R U Still Down", which was not a Death Row project sold massive numbers as did "Still I Rise" which Death Row took its name off of and refused to promote.
There was never a second dynasty of hit-makers. They put out some Snoop albums and a Dogg Pound project and that was all she wrote.
A debut at #15 is not bad by any stretch
It's not great. It's modest business for a label that used to do major sales. You previously credit the Death Row brand for being behind the sales of the two posthumous 2Pac albums that came out around that time. If that were the case, this album which was released in between both should have benefited greater from it. It didn't. It advertised in major magazines. It boasted having music produced by Dr. Dre, new material from Jay-Z, Snoop, Xzibit, 2Pac, Nate Dogg. It did average sales. They were basically making money off what was hot elsewhere. People were not buying the album to hear new music from their roster at the time.
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#15 Debut is Great for having "Gangsta Rap" radio song only in LA markets and a couple small westcoast stations -- "Change The Game Remix" was the big song off this album and I remember radio stations giving clue credit for the track but saying the album was available on both places and some bought the Death Row version for the track while others bought the Clue album (FYI, the Death Row version didn't have the shoutouts allover it). For what it's worth Above The Law's manager said it was 500k at the time (I think what he said happened was they shipped GOLD worldwide)
The "Still I Rise" is a Death Row album, it has the logo smacked on it and Suge owns the publishing on those tracks -- pulling promo just means they did exactly that, they pulled back advertising dollars because of a disagreement with Amaru
"R U Still Down" was a Death Row album that was released by Amaru Records -- those were mostly all Death Row material on that album that because of a court ruling allowed Afeni to release it on Amaru (same thing happened with Nate Dogg album when he released it, those were Death Row recorded tracks)
"Until the End of Time" Debuted at #1 LONG after 1996 -- it was supposed to promote the new artists -- Tha Realest, Eastwood, Soopafly, Top Dogg, El Dorado, Crooked I, Ray J, NINA, etc. all had material for this album -- some ended up coming out on the mixtape by Death Row and others came out on Tupac "Nu-Mixx for the Streets" which featured a banger from Crooked I & 2Pac -- Tha Realest songs leaked out later but were scrapped from UTEOT and the Nu-Mixx album because of contract issues with the label
Death Row had GARBAGE promotion after they lost Interscope -- Interscope was pushing Top Dogg hard in magazines and ready to give him the big push in 1998 before Suge and Jimmy got into a disagreement and they broke it off
Suge was also getting ready to push Soopafly really hard too -- and he had the "Cindafella" track in rotation on The Box and BET -- again, it comes down to shitty promotion
There's no way to deny Interscope/Universal would have promoted Suge's stuff a shit ton better than the garbage he got at Koch Records -- Suge got so-so average promotion by Priority Records in the short stint with Chronic 2000 (Priority could get a single in rotation, but they couldn't push like Interscope where it was basically guaranteed spins)
When Koch/D3/Wideawake were promoting, Death Row couldn't promote shit -- nobody knew about the release dates cause they were always changing -- they fucked up Soopafly and Crooked I's albums big league -- Death Row thought buying a billboard with Crooked I in LA was going to push the album and a small radio tour -- but there was no serviced spins on regular playlists outside LA and Hot 97 in NY for "So Damn Hood" -- I remember I was in Miami and they were on the radio tour and played it once or twice and it was never heard of again -- Shitty promotion! Artists solo albums were promoted and then all of a sudden that artist was put on the back burner or secretly kicked off the label and then a new artist came up to be promoted and the same shit kept happening over and over again -- We heard about Crooked I's solo album for almost 3 years, he recorded 8 different versions of it and then "Hood Star" -- then all of a sudden the website says "Eastwood -- Born To Be Hated" was the new album being pushed -- he did a track with Top Dogg called "If You Can't Take The Heat", then it was supposed to be on the debut album, instead they were to put it on TGFR and then they pulled it off there cause Top Dogg left the label, then that shit never dropped! Then instead we got a 2Pac album and a new Kurupt album later -- Shitty business and fans were left in the dark relying on a website that was barely updated, full of empty promises that failed to deliver, and little to no promo! I remember getting the promo poster for TGFR and it was fucked up and had a bunch of artists who weren't on it like Top Dogg and DMX
The second generation got a shit deal -- for a superstar label like Death Row Records, those distribution deals were garbage after Priority
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Found this (Really Really RARE) version
This is a Really dope track!
https://youtu.be/DdOuaAOyoQw
There was a rumor that these lyrics were Pac's (again, not accusing Realest of stealing lyrics, but that was the 'Rumor')
I wonder if Darryl Harper, and Realest may be able to shine some light on it
Looking for the Other Versions!
ANYONE?! Mitek23 I saw your Youtube quite impressive...do you have it?!
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#15 Debut is Great for having "Gangsta Rap" radio song only in LA markets and a couple small westcoast stations -- "Change The Game Remix" was the big song off this album and I remember radio stations giving clue credit for the track but saying the album was available on both places and some bought the Death Row version for the track while others bought the Clue album (FYI, the Death Row version didn't have the shoutouts allover it). For what it's worth Above The Law's manager said it was 500k at the time (I think what he said happened was they shipped GOLD worldwide)
Your recollections seem extremely suspect. For starters, the remix of “Change the Game” wasn’t a single. The original version off Jay’s album was. I’m sure some stations played it but neither Clue nor Suge was pushing it for spins. Also, radio station DJ’s generally don’t talk about the tracks and what albums they are off of when they spin music unless the artist or label is at the station promoting it. I doubt it was on any major radio station’s daily play list and if it did end up getting spun, the DJ wasn’t randomly stopping to give the listeners’ a tutorial on what albums it was available on.
The song itself was not a Death Row song. It was a Clue track that Suge licensed so he could advertise a Jay-Z feature. JT the Bigga Figga and Daz also licensed it for the “Game 4 Sale” soundtrack. And FYI to your FYI… every released version of the remix has the DJ Clue tags over it including the Death Row one. Given that Clue’s label never pressed a radio single for it, I’m calling bullshit on your story.
Your creative imagination is building up an elaborate revisionist history to make every move that Death Row does seem like it happened on a grander scale.
#15 Debut is Great for having "Gangsta Rap" radio song only in LA markets and a couple small westcoast stations
Here is where your defense contradicts your argument. If Death Row is still a hot label, why is there single only getting played in the West Coast market? 2Pac is still hot so his shit is getting played. Death Row on their own isn’t.
The "Still I Rise" is a Death Row album, it has the logo smacked on it and Suge owns the publishing on those tracks -- pulling promo just means they did exactly that, they pulled back advertising dollars because of a disagreement with Amaru.
Incorrect. Their logo isn’t on the back cover and Suge isn’t listed as executive producer. They didn’t pull because of a disagreement with Amaru either. Amaru and Death Row both pulled their names off of it over issues from the success of “Greatest Hits”. Amaru and Death Row felt Interscope was profiting off their participation but not contributing enough money to marketing and promotion.
"R U Still Down" was a Death Row album that was released by Amaru Records -- those were mostly all Death Row material on that album that because of a court ruling allowed Afeni to release it on Amaru (same thing happened with Nate Dogg album when he released it, those were Death Row recorded tracks)
Wrong again. “R U Still Down” contains no recordings from Pac’s Death Row days. This is his early Interscope material from 1993-94 (outtakes from Thug Life, his song from Poetic Justice soundtrack, tracks he recorded in between Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. and Me Against The World). Nate Dogg’s situation was different. He did record an album with Death Row but he retained the rights to his solo work and was allowed to shop it elsewhere like King T did with his Aftermath project.
"Until the End of Time" Debuted at #1 LONG after 1996 -- it was supposed to promote the new artists -- Tha Realest, Eastwood, Soopafly, Top Dogg, El Dorado, Crooked I, Ray J, NINA, etc. all had material for this album
You’re once again taking massive creative liberties here. Death Row was going to release this on their own with their artists but it was planned as a four-disc box set called “The Vault” with “Untouchable” featuring Crooked I as the single in early 2001. Amaru blocked it and split it into two different albums and took over creative control on it with Interscope backing them. It didn’t sell off the strength of Death Row as most of the references to Death Row were taken off and artist involvement was minimal. Whether those artists you named were all going to be included is anyone’s guess but it sounds like you’re once again trying to play up your imagined version of how things were going to happen.
Death Row had GARBAGE promotion after they lost Interscope -- Interscope was pushing Top Dogg hard in magazines and ready to give him the big push in 1998 before Suge and Jimmy got into a disagreement and they broke it off
They had garbage promotion because there was nobody to oversee the label and push new artists. The albums with 2Pac’s name and likeness on them like his albums and movie soundtracks sold because 2Pac was still hot, not because of who Interscope was “pushing hard in magazines” or whatever Death Row song you remember secretly getting airplay all over the place.
Suge was also getting ready to push Soopafly really hard too -- and he had the "Cindafella" track in rotation on The Box and BET -- again, it comes down to shitty promotion
Promotion only does so much. You’ve created this exaggerated idea that all the labels have to do is “push” something while ignoring all the other elements that go into it. Snoop didn’t become a star because Interscope decided to push him after he recorded an album. He was already on numerous Dre singles and videos and doing award show appearances before they even started working on his album. Lady of Rage had a massive hit single and her album didn’t do anything, Obie Trice had a commercial for himself in the opening of the first single off one of Em’s albums and still got put behind 50. Just because they played somebody’s video a couple times during a block for a rap video show or gave them a write-up in a magazine doesn’t mean they had proper momentum to be a star. None of the artists that came after 1996 were built up to sell anywhere near what the artists before them did.
There's no way to deny Interscope/Universal would have promoted Suge's stuff a shit ton better than the garbage he got at Koch Records -- Suge got so-so average promotion by Priority Records in the short stint with Chronic 2000 (Priority could get a single in rotation, but they couldn't push like Interscope where it was basically guaranteed spins)
It’s pointless to argue because Koch was where they were at. You’re still buying into the illusion that just because it’s Interscope that Jimmy Iovine will wave the magic wand and make it a hit. The labels themselves are a big factor (hence why G-Unit Records broke more artists than Shady Records despite them both being on Interscope and Eminem being the bigger artist). Death Row went south because all of their established artists were gone and their CEO went to prison.
The second generation got a shit deal -- for a superstar label like Death Row Records, those distribution deals were garbage after Priority
That’s because the label had nothing to sell. They chose to sever ties with all the artists who people associated with Death Row during its peak period. Everything that people loved about Death Row was still selling, courtesy of the the Up in Smoke tour. When those artists stood next to Xzibit and artists like that, people took notice. That’s how it is. The brand is only as strong as the stars connected to it. You can have the biggest hit movie in the world. If all the stars and producers jump ship and don’t do the sequel, the odds of it being a hit become more difficult. It has nothing to do with distribution or how hard the studios push. The studios aren’t pushing because they don’t want to invest money when they don’t forsee a return.
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#15 Debut is Great for having "Gangsta Rap" radio song only in LA markets and a couple small westcoast stations -- "Change The Game Remix" was the big song off this album and I remember radio stations giving clue credit for the track but saying the album was available on both places and some bought the Death Row version for the track while others bought the Clue album (FYI, the Death Row version didn't have the shoutouts allover it). For what it's worth Above The Law's manager said it was 500k at the time (I think what he said happened was they shipped GOLD worldwide)
Your recollections seem extremely suspect. For starters, the remix of “Change the Game” wasn’t a single. The original version off Jay’s album was. I’m sure some stations played it but neither Clue nor Suge was pushing it for spins. Also, radio station DJ’s generally don’t talk about the tracks and what albums they are off of when they spin music unless the artist or label is at the station promoting it. I doubt it was on any major radio station’s daily play list and if it did end up getting spun, the DJ wasn’t randomly stopping to give the listeners’ a tutorial on what albums it was available on.
The song itself was not a Death Row song. It was a Clue track that Suge licensed so he could advertise a Jay-Z feature. JT the Bigga Figga and Daz also licensed it for the “Game 4 Sale” soundtrack. And FYI to your FYI… every released version of the remix has the DJ Clue tags over it including the Death Row one. Given that Clue’s label never pressed a radio single for it, I’m calling bullshit on your story.
Your creative imagination is building up an elaborate revisionist history to make every move that Death Row does seem like it happened on a grander scale.
#15 Debut is Great for having "Gangsta Rap" radio song only in LA markets and a couple small westcoast stations
Here is where your defense contradicts your argument. If Death Row is still a hot label, why is there single only getting played in the West Coast market? 2Pac is still hot so his shit is getting played. Death Row on their own isn’t.
The "Still I Rise" is a Death Row album, it has the logo smacked on it and Suge owns the publishing on those tracks -- pulling promo just means they did exactly that, they pulled back advertising dollars because of a disagreement with Amaru.
Incorrect. Their logo isn’t on the back cover and Suge isn’t listed as executive producer. They didn’t pull because of a disagreement with Amaru either. Amaru and Death Row both pulled their names off of it over issues from the success of “Greatest Hits”. Amaru and Death Row felt Interscope was profiting off their participation but not contributing enough money to marketing and promotion.
"R U Still Down" was a Death Row album that was released by Amaru Records -- those were mostly all Death Row material on that album that because of a court ruling allowed Afeni to release it on Amaru (same thing happened with Nate Dogg album when he released it, those were Death Row recorded tracks)
Wrong again. “R U Still Down” contains no recordings from Pac’s Death Row days. This is his early Interscope material from 1993-94 (outtakes from Thug Life, his song from Poetic Justice soundtrack, tracks he recorded in between Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. and Me Against The World). Nate Dogg’s situation was different. He did record an album with Death Row but he retained the rights to his solo work and was allowed to shop it elsewhere like King T did with his Aftermath project.
"Until the End of Time" Debuted at #1 LONG after 1996 -- it was supposed to promote the new artists -- Tha Realest, Eastwood, Soopafly, Top Dogg, El Dorado, Crooked I, Ray J, NINA, etc. all had material for this album
You’re once again taking massive creative liberties here. Death Row was going to release this on their own with their artists but it was planned as a four-disc box set called “The Vault” with “Untouchable” featuring Crooked I as the single in early 2001. Amaru blocked it and split it into two different albums and took over creative control on it with Interscope backing them. It didn’t sell off the strength of Death Row as most of the references to Death Row were taken off and artist involvement was minimal. Whether those artists you named were all going to be included is anyone’s guess but it sounds like you’re once again trying to play up your imagined version of how things were going to happen.
Death Row had GARBAGE promotion after they lost Interscope -- Interscope was pushing Top Dogg hard in magazines and ready to give him the big push in 1998 before Suge and Jimmy got into a disagreement and they broke it off
They had garbage promotion because there was nobody to oversee the label and push new artists. The albums with 2Pac’s name and likeness on them like his albums and movie soundtracks sold because 2Pac was still hot, not because of who Interscope was “pushing hard in magazines” or whatever Death Row song you remember secretly getting airplay all over the place.
Suge was also getting ready to push Soopafly really hard too -- and he had the "Cindafella" track in rotation on The Box and BET -- again, it comes down to shitty promotion
Promotion only does so much. You’ve created this exaggerated idea that all the labels have to do is “push” something while ignoring all the other elements that go into it. Snoop didn’t become a star because Interscope decided to push him after he recorded an album. He was already on numerous Dre singles and videos and doing award show appearances before they even started working on his album. Lady of Rage had a massive hit single and her album didn’t do anything, Obie Trice had a commercial for himself in the opening of the first single off one of Em’s albums and still got put behind 50. Just because they played somebody’s video a couple times during a block for a rap video show or gave them a write-up in a magazine doesn’t mean they had proper momentum to be a star. None of the artists that came after 1996 were built up to sell anywhere near what the artists before them did.
There's no way to deny Interscope/Universal would have promoted Suge's stuff a shit ton better than the garbage he got at Koch Records -- Suge got so-so average promotion by Priority Records in the short stint with Chronic 2000 (Priority could get a single in rotation, but they couldn't push like Interscope where it was basically guaranteed spins)
It’s pointless to argue because Koch was where they were at. You’re still buying into the illusion that just because it’s Interscope that Jimmy Iovine will wave the magic wand and make it a hit. The labels themselves are a big factor (hence why G-Unit Records broke more artists than Shady Records despite them both being on Interscope and Eminem being the bigger artist). Death Row went south because all of their established artists were gone and their CEO went to prison.
The second generation got a shit deal -- for a superstar label like Death Row Records, those distribution deals were garbage after Priority
That’s because the label had nothing to sell. They chose to sever ties with all the artists who people associated with Death Row during its peak period. Everything that people loved about Death Row was still selling, courtesy of the the Up in Smoke tour. When those artists stood next to Xzibit and artists like that, people took notice. That’s how it is. The brand is only as strong as the stars connected to it. You can have the biggest hit movie in the world. If all the stars and producers jump ship and don’t do the sequel, the odds of it being a hit become more difficult. It has nothing to do with distribution or how hard the studios push. The studios aren’t pushing because they don’t want to invest money when they don’t forsee a return.
Your recollections seem extremely suspect. For starters, the remix of “Change the Game” wasn’t a single. The original version off Jay’s album was. I’m sure some stations played it but neither Clue nor Suge was pushing it for spins. Also, radio station DJ’s generally don’t talk about the tracks and what albums they are off of when they spin music unless the artist or label is at the station promoting it. I doubt it was on any major radio station’s daily play list and if it did end up getting spun, the DJ wasn’t randomly stopping to give the listeners’ a tutorial on what albums it was available on.
The song itself was not a Death Row song. It was a Clue track that Suge licensed so he could advertise a Jay-Z feature. JT the Bigga Figga and Daz also licensed it for the “Game 4 Sale” soundtrack. And FYI to your FYI… every released version of the remix has the DJ Clue tags over it including the Death Row one. Given that Clue’s label never pressed a radio single for it, I’m calling bullshit on your story.
Your creative imagination is building up an elaborate revisionist history to make every move that Death Row does seem like it happened on a grander scale.
Completely Not True -- They played this song in Detroit, Los Angeles, New York, it was allover Power 106 -- this was a HUGE Hit, "R-O-C with the D-P-G", they performed it Live at Shows! Huge track that Remixed a Huge Track!
Here is where your defense contradicts your argument. If Death Row is still a hot label, why is there single only getting played in the West Coast market? 2Pac is still hot so his shit is getting played. Death Row on their own isn’t.
As I said, their distribution was TERRIBLE -- the LA Radio Play was the Hometown local airplay -- you can have the hottest artists in the world, but if you have no promotion, you aren't getting spins and it's going to be really really hard to sell -- 2Pac's Death Row material was distributed by Interscope/Universal, everything else was distributed by Koch/D3 (Small basement label with NO Promotion)
Incorrect. Their logo isn’t on the back cover and Suge isn’t listed as executive producer. They didn’t pull because of a disagreement with Amaru either. Amaru and Death Row both pulled their names off of it over issues from the success of “Greatest Hits”. Amaru and Death Row felt Interscope was profiting off their participation but not contributing enough money to marketing and promotion.
Still I Rise is a Death Row release -- I remember the Official Death Row website promoting it and putting the tracklist up and the promo posters had tha row logo -- in fact, "Baby Please Don't Cry" single was furnished on the website and "The Good Die Young" (tharow.com had all that) -- Outlawz were signed and owed Suge one more album, and this was their album that fulfilled their contract -- the 2pac material had to be done together with Death Row/Amaru as the court ruling stated -- Johnny J, Daz (lead producer at Death Row when this came out), Daryl Big D Harper, and QD III all the Death Row producers did the music -- Outlawz were actively signed to Death Row at the time
Wrong again. “R U Still Down” contains no recordings from Pac’s Death Row days. This is his early Interscope material from 1993-94 (outtakes from Thug Life, his song from Poetic Justice soundtrack, tracks he recorded in between Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. and Me Against The World). Nate Dogg’s situation was different. He did record an album with Death Row but he retained the rights to his solo work and was allowed to shop it elsewhere like King T did with his Aftermath project.
Not entirely true -- There was a lot of stuff on that album that came from Death Row -- take for instance the Jon B. track -- here's MTV talking about him recording it at Death Row studio -- http://www.mtv.com/news/1430675/jon-b-talks-about-working-with-tupac/
Also, Nate Dogg's publishing was all 'Suge Publishing' -- the court ruling said Nate could release the album on his own but Suge also had rights to Nate's music recorded on the label and the publishing ("Suge Publishing") -- Suge kept ALL the publishing for ALL his artists -- he's one of the Only Executive Producers to OWN everything that was recorded at his label in some capacity
You’re once again taking massive creative liberties here. Death Row was going to release this on their own with their artists but it was planned as a four-disc box set called “The Vault” with “Untouchable” featuring Crooked I as the single in early 2001. Amaru blocked it and split it into two different albums and took over creative control on it with Interscope backing them. It didn’t sell off the strength of Death Row as most of the references to Death Row were taken off and artist involvement was minimal. Whether those artists you named were all going to be included is anyone’s guess but it sounds like you’re once again trying to play up your imagined version of how things were going to happen.
And you're wrong again and trying to rewrite history on this one -- Death Row & Amaru had ALL the Rights to Pac's Music -- she couldn't "bump" Death Row out if she wanted -- The edits you're referring to are because Johnny J got pissed he thought he was owed money by Suge so he removed some of the references as a get-back and before Suge could get them to fix it, he did it at the last minute -- Suge Knight is the EXECUTIVE PRODUCER and his logo and name is stamped on the album -- it was promoted on the website
Yes, "The Vault" was a rumor, and they decided to break it up into 2 double albums because they concluded they would sell more than someone having to shell out $100 for a Rap Album (which is what they wanted to do and release it around Thanksgiving to make Christmas money)
The main disagreement is that originally Above The Law was going to be HEAVILY INVOLVED with the direction, packaging, and the total delivery of the albums -- Amaru didn't feel comfortable with Big Hutch running the whole show for Suge -- Originally, Daz was the Lead Producer for Death Row Records when these projects were in the beginning stages, and Suge KICKED Daz off the label, and BIG HUTCH aka Cold187um, who did the Too Gangsta For Radio, Eddie Griffin, and Dogg Pound album, tookover for Daz -- Afeni didn't know Hutch, wasn't really familiar with his work, and didn't have the same type of trust for him as she did Daz, who she knew thru Pac, and Daz was one of Pac's biggest producers -- NINA was also supposed to be heavily featured on this project -- the conclusion was they decided to try to keep it with "artists and producers pac knew" with a little bit of commercial flavor with a couple modern artists (jazze pha, trick daddy, etc.) to appeal to the new crowd for sales
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvHCCnhzOxI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYDhZLI1KjI
This other version they have several versions, made it onto Kurupt's album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z4NufnEkQE
They had garbage promotion because there was nobody to oversee the label and push new artists. The albums with 2Pac’s name and likeness on them like his albums and movie soundtracks sold because 2Pac was still hot, not because of who Interscope was “pushing hard in magazines” or whatever Death Row song you remember secretly getting airplay all over the place.
Interscope/Universal largely controlled the mainstream radio and anything they sent out to radio stations got mad plays -- Suge lost Interscope and they became somewhat of an enemy when he posted Jimmy Iovine's directions to his house and personal information on "Too Gangsta For TV" release -- Jimmy at that point decided to use his networking ties to "blackball" non-Pac releases from the radio stations (it wasn't hard, Death Row had shit promotion as we talked about)
Promotion only does so much. You’ve created this exaggerated idea that all the labels have to do is “push” something while ignoring all the other elements that go into it. Snoop didn’t become a star because Interscope decided to push him after he recorded an album.
No artist went platinum on D3 Records -- Soopafly could've had at least a hit record or sold at a minimum GOLD if he was on Interscope Records -- Suge Knight's Deal with Ted Fields and Jimmy Iovine is what pushed Gangsta Rap into white suburbia -- No Gangsta Rap label ever went as far as Death Row did with around the clock MTV videos, MTV News, spins allover the USA, award shows, etc. all pushed by the Interscope machine -- Suge, Ted, & Jimmy had a deal -- Suge just go do the music and Jimmy & Ted will handle ALL the promotion, set up interviews, MTV airplay, MTV specials, furnish all singles to radio outlets -- Suge just worry about making bomb music while they handle the rest -- Soopafly didn't have that type of Luxury with D3, not EVEN close!
The labels themselves are a big factor (hence why G-Unit Records broke more artists than Shady Records despite them both being on Interscope and Eminem being the bigger artist). Death Row went south because all of their established artists were gone and their CEO went to prison.
The Game became a multi-platinum superstar, Young Buck, Lloyd Banks sold records, & Yayo got spins and features allover the radio under Interscope umbrella -- that's thousands of more exposure than Soopafly got with garbage Koch -- Interscope had the promotion machine ramped up on YGD "The Top Dogg" and then when Tha Row lost Interscope, all the buzz with Top Dogg went away too when they pulled the rug out -- Imagine if Top Dogg dropped on Interscope, Daz followed with "RAW" on Interscope, then they followed with Tha Realest & Crooked I, then laid down a NINA album, Eastwood, & Ray J -- there would've been some hits with that group just like G-Unit!
That’s because the label had nothing to sell. They chose to sever ties with all the artists who people associated with Death Row during its peak period. Everything that people loved about Death Row was still selling, courtesy of the the Up in Smoke tour. When those artists stood next to Xzibit and artists like that, people took notice. That’s how it is. The brand is only as strong as the stars connected to it. You can have the biggest hit movie in the world. If all the stars and producers jump ship and don’t do the sequel, the odds of it being a hit become more difficult. It has nothing to do with distribution or how hard the studios push. The studios aren’t pushing because they don’t want to invest money when they don’t forsee a return.
The biggest artist on Cash Money Records was Juvenile at one point -- fast forward years later and it's Lil Wayne who turned into a Dynasty, then Drake and Nikki Minaj took it over -- Tha Row had Top Dogg, Soopafly, Tha Realest -- then Suge revamped the roster to Crooked I, NINA, Ray J, Kurupt, & Eastwood -- That's not a bad core of players by ANY stretch -- And to say those artists are garbage is just flat out dishonest -- Go listen to some of their unreleased (and released stuff for that matter) -- it's amazing how Irv Gotti took Eastwood & Crooked I & had people buzzing allover them "Nexxt Niggaz," "Connected," "Baby" -- Irv Gotti had these guys rolling -- Suge had shit distribution -- the biggest mistake he made is he thought he could beat out all the distributors that black-balled him and wanted to shove it in their face and spike the ball and prove he didn't need a MAJOR to make it back to the top -- Suge's biggest problem was that not only was the Promotion TERRIBLE, but his artists weren't getting the exposure they needed -- they had all this bomb music they were sitting on and Suge on them to stay in the studio til 5 AM as Crooked I and Tha Realest both said he did, and then you have nothing being released -- Crooked I wanted to drop mad mix tapes and Suge told him not to because it would kill off his buzz for an album -- Suge left this happen because of his big head to "fight the man" and make an example -- all this at the cost of a new generation of artists getting shelved! I'm not saying the new generation was "better than" or even equal to, but they never got the same opportunities the first generation of Row artists had with all the Daily Video spins, MTV promotion, MTV News updates, magazine promotion, radio airplay (as you mentioned, even less than average talent like Lady of Rage got mad spins!) Meanwhile, they couldn't even keep Crooked I single in rotation, but Irv Gotti gets Crooked I played allover BET with the quickness! A lot of shady stuff happened to Death Row, and in a lot of way, over politics and Suge's decisions, the artists got shelved and the fans lost out on some great music! Thanks for the post, I enjoyed reading your take!
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So many lies and falsehoods from this love33 character
Not entirely true -- There was a lot of stuff on that album that came from Death Row -- take for instance the Jon B. track -- here's MTV talking about him recording it at Death Row studio -- http://www.mtv.com/news/1430675/jon-b-talks-about-working-with-tupac/
R U Still Down? was an Interscope album with unreleased 2pac recordings prior to 1995. The track you're talking about was recorded while 2pac was on Death Row in 1996 and wasn't released until 97 I think.
"Until the End of Time" Debuted at #1 LONG after 1996 -- it was supposed to promote the new artists -- Tha Realest, Eastwood, Soopafly, Top Dogg, El Dorado, Crooked I, Ray J, NINA, etc. all had material for this album -- some ended up coming out on the mixtape by Death Row and others came out on Tupac "Nu-Mixx for the Streets" which featured a banger from Crooked I & 2Pac -- Tha Realest songs leaked out later but were scrapped from UTEOT and the Nu-Mixx album because of contract issues with the label
Wrong. With Afeni and Interscope also overseeing things, there wasn't a chance in hell of there ever being tracks with Tha Realest, Top Dogg, and El Dorado. All three were off the label by that time. Ray J wasn't hanging around with Death Row until 2002.
Death Row had GARBAGE promotion after they lost Interscope -- Interscope was pushing Top Dogg hard in magazines and ready to give him the big push in 1998 before Suge and Jimmy got into a disagreement and they broke it off
Wrong and Wrong. Interscope dropped Death Row in 1997 after Lady of Rage's album was released. Death Row was with Priority after that, and with Top Dogg being on Death Row/Priority, Interscope would not push an artist that wasn't on their label
Originally, Daz was the Lead Producer for Death Row Records when these projects were in the beginning stages, and Suge KICKED Daz off the label, and BIG HUTCH aka Cold187um, who did the Too Gangsta For Radio, Eddie Griffin, and Dogg Pound album, tookover for Daz -- Afeni didn't know Hutch, wasn't really familiar with his work, and didn't have the same type of trust for him as she did Daz, who she knew thru Pac, and Daz was one of Pac's biggest producers -- NINA was also supposed to be heavily featured on this project -- the conclusion was they decided to try to keep it with "artists and producers pac knew" with a little bit of commercial flavor with a couple modern artists (jazze pha, trick daddy, etc.) to appeal to the new crowd for sales
1) Daz left the label and stole masters
2) Hutch was not around and didn't have any involvement with Dysfunktional Family Soundtrack
3) Left Eye was not supposed to be "heavily featured" on either album. UTEOT came out in March 2001 with one Left Eye track. She signed with Death Row in January 2002 and died in April 2002. Better Dayz came out at the end of 2002.
Interscope had the promotion machine ramped up on YGD "The Top Dogg" and then when Tha Row lost Interscope, all the buzz with Top Dogg went away too when they pulled the rug out -- Imagine if Top Dogg dropped on Interscope, Daz followed with "RAW" on Interscope, then they followed with Tha Realest & Crooked I, then laid down a NINA album, Eastwood, & Ray J -- there would've been some hits with that group just like G-Unit!
See above, Death Row was dropped by Interscope in 1997. They did not have a promotion machine "ramped up" behind Top Dogg. Ever.
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Completely Not True -- They played this song in Detroit, Los Angeles, New York, it was allover Power 106 -- this was a HUGE Hit, "R-O-C with the D-P-G", they performed it Live at Shows! Huge track that Remixed a Huge Track!
Me thinks you have it confused with the original version. Clue/Def Jam/Roc-A-Fella never even pressed it as a radio single. It wasn’t a single for The Professional 2 album. It wasn’t a single for the Dogg Pound’s album. It was not a B-side for the “Change The Game” single that was pressed and sent to radio stations. Radio stations very rarely just grab songs off albums and play them on their own without the artist or the label specifically pushing it. You might the occasional instance where a DJ will get an exclusive from an artist and premier it exclusively on their show but after that, the label has to get involved to give it legs on radio. It wasn’t a hit. It wasn’t in regular rotation in the New York market. They would not have performed it live at shows unless Daz and Kurupt were there as guests. It never charted on Billboard. Period.
As I said, their distribution was TERRIBLE -- the LA Radio Play was the Hometown local airplay -- you can have the hottest artists in the world, but if you have no promotion, you aren't getting spins and it's going to be really really hard to sell -- 2Pac's Death Row material was distributed by Interscope/Universal, everything else was distributed by Koch/D3 (Small basement label with NO Promotion)
Which is more or less what I said. 2Pac was still hot as an artist so Interscope held on to him. Though, technically, he was still contracted to them as a solo artist from day one. Death Row was a dying label so Interscope dumped them. Priority picked them up, thinking they might still be valuable but their projects didn’t sell so they also dumped them.
Also, Nate Dogg's publishing was all 'Suge Publishing' -- the court ruling said Nate could release the album on his own but Suge also had rights to Nate's music recorded on the label and the publishing ("Suge Publishing") -- Suge kept ALL the publishing for ALL his artists -- he's one of the Only Executive Producers to OWN everything that was recorded at his label in some capacity.
Nope. Suge owned the masters, not the publishing. Not the same. Dr. Dre owned his own publishing (read credits sometimes, “Ain’t Nuthin Going On But Fucking” is Dre’s publishing), hence why they couldn’t put out leftover Dre tracks on Chronic 2000 and why WideAwake couldn’t release unreleased Dr. Dre music. The original “Deep Cover” is owned by Sony and “Keep Their Heads Ringin” is owned by Priority. Pac’s estate owns his publishing (Joshua’s Dream). Nate Dogg’s estate owns his publishing.
Yes, "The Vault" was a rumor, and they decided to break it up into 2 double albums because they concluded they would sell more than someone having to shell out $100 for a Rap Album (which is what they wanted to do and release it around Thanksgiving to make Christmas money)
Not a rumor. It was announced. The same Death Row website you mentioned had it as the opening bumper with the single, “Untouchable” featuring Crooked I advertised. It was changed because Amaru legally prevented them from putting it out.
The main disagreement is that originally Above The Law was going to be HEAVILY INVOLVED with the direction, packaging, and the total delivery of the albums -- Amaru didn't feel comfortable with Big Hutch running the whole show for Suge -- Originally, Daz was the Lead Producer for Death Row Records when these projects were in the beginning stages, and Suge KICKED Daz off the label, and BIG HUTCH aka Cold187um, who did the Too Gangsta For Radio, Eddie Griffin, and Dogg Pound album, tookover for Daz -- Afeni didn't know Hutch, wasn't really familiar with his work, and didn't have the same type of trust for him as she did Daz, who she knew thru Pac, and Daz was one of Pac's biggest producers -- NINA was also supposed to be heavily featured on this project -- the conclusion was they decided to try to keep it with "artists and producers pac knew" with a little bit of commercial flavor with a couple modern artists (jazze pha, trick daddy, etc.) to appeal to the new crowd for salesuote]\
Nope. Daz was long gone by this point and was also getting legal flack from Afeni for trying to put out “Makaveli & Dillinger” on his own label for $500. Amaru was extremely protective of Pac’s music.
Interscope/Universal largely controlled the mainstream radio and anything they sent out to radio stations got mad plays.
Not true. They definitely were the top music label and had a great deal of power and influence but you’re feeding into an extreme misconception by saying that “anything they sent out” was getting “mad plays”. It just doesn’t work that way. Eminem had three hit singles off “Marshall Mathers LP”. D-12 had one with “Purple Pills” and despite having Dre production on “Fight Music”, it didn’t become a hit in the US. Obie Trice’s singles charted well but not great. If it were simply a matter of the Interscope machine, there would not have been such a huge distinction once 50 Cent arrived and had four singles chart off his album and B-sides get actual airplay. It wasn’t because Interscope “pushed him in magazines”. He was active in his own promotion, which allowed him to be more of an asset.
This is what you’re not getting. G-Unit Records was a bigger label for breaking artists because they had street teams and did a lot of their own marketing/promotion. This was true of Roc-A-Fella, Death Row, and a lot of other upstart labels. The majors give them the money because they know they’re going to do the footwork on the promotion.
No artist went platinum on D3 Records -- Soopafly could've had at least a hit record or sold at a minimum GOLD if he was on Interscope Records -- Suge Knight's Deal with Ted Fields and Jimmy Iovine is what pushed Gangsta Rap into white suburbia -- No Gangsta Rap label ever went as far as Death Row did with around the clock MTV videos, MTV News, spins allover the USA, award shows, etc. all pushed by the Interscope machine -- Suge, Ted, & Jimmy had a deal -- Suge just go do the music and Jimmy & Ted will handle ALL the promotion, set up interviews, MTV airplay, MTV specials, furnish all singles to radio outlets
More of the misconception. The level of airplay you’re talking about is Donald Trump-level exaggeration. There was only one MTV network in the 90’s and they were pretty diverse when it came to music genres. They weren’t playing rap around the clock, let alone exclusively Death Row music. MTV certainly had a great relationship with them but not to the level you are bringing it. Yo! MTV Raps would do specials where they sat down with Dr. Dre or Snoop or Pac but they also did this with Biggie and numerous other rappers. This “No other Gangsta Rap label ever did what Death Row did” talk is silly as well. When Ruthless was at its peak, they were doing just that. Bad Boy wasn’t really Gangsta Rap but they were also getting that coverage.
As for it being Interscope who pushed Gangsta Rap into white suburbia. That’s nonsense. N.W.A. was the starter kit for the gangsta rap craze. When they broke up, Ice Cube was having just as much success over at Priority. Interscope wasn’t even in the picture when they were doing “Deep Cover”. Sony was going to offer them an even bigger deal but backed out when Eazy sued them for interfering with a contracted artist (Dre). Interscope wasn’t even the exclusive distributor for Death Row until 1995. Priority and Interscope shared album credit while Time Warner was in charge of distribution.
Soopafly didn't have that type of Luxury with D3, not EVEN close!
Soopafly wasn’t even on the label when they signed to D3. He was a featured artist for Chronic 2000 and then disappeared after that. By the time, the distribution deal with D3 happened, Soopafly was releasing his Death Row album through Daz’s DPG Recordz label.
The Game became a multi-platinum superstar, Young Buck, Lloyd Banks sold records, & Yayo got spins and features allover the radio under Interscope umbrella -- that's thousands of more exposure than Soopafly got with garbage Koch -- Interscope had the promotion machine ramped up on YGD "The Top Dogg" and then when Tha Row lost Interscope, all the buzz with Top Dogg went away too when they pulled the rug out -- Imagine if Top Dogg dropped on Interscope, Daz followed with "RAW" on Interscope, then they followed with Tha Realest & Crooked I, then laid down a NINA album, Eastwood, & Ray J -- there would've been some hits with that group just like G-Unit!
This wild career-making promotional push for Top Dogg you keep talking about NEVER even existed. There was no buzz. He was on one album release for Death Row (prominently featured but no music videos or heavy radio rotation) and it was distributed by Priority. He’s not even mentioned once or featured at all on the official Death Row video, “Death Row Uncut”, which came out not long after Chronic 2000, and ended up selling pretty well. Realest is in one video, a low-budget porno version of one of the singles. They both get featured in one video on the DVD version. The rest of the video is broken up to about 90% videos of Tupac, Dr. Dre, Snoop, and Tha Dogg Pound. The most prominently featured artist other than them is DJ Quik, who also was not affiliated with the label anymore by the time the video was being produced. Soopafly’s only appearance is in some camcorder footage of the Dogg Pound running through a hotel room to cock-block him while he’s trying to fuck a groupie. To anyone who didn’t know any better, they’d probably just assume he was a member of Snoop’s entourage. Hardly promotion.
And this is why post-Tupac Death Row never had a chance. Dre brought the momentum from NWA over and used it to build hype around Snoop and the younger guys. When Pac died and Snoop left, there was no torch passing moment. It made matters worse when Suge himself was more about talking about the old roster than the new one. Meanwhile, Dre and Snoop used that momentum on artists like Xzibit (who managed to become a star on the level of a pre-1996 Death Row player despite not being on Interscope).
The biggest artist on Cash Money Records was Juvenile at one point -- fast forward years later and it's Lil Wayne who turned into a Dynasty, then Drake and Nikki Minaj took it over -- Tha Row had Top Dogg, Soopafly, Tha Realest -- then Suge revamped the roster to Crooked I, NINA, Ray J, Kurupt, & Eastwood -- That's not a bad core of players by ANY stretch -- And to say those artists are garbage is just flat out dishonest.
I never said or implied those artists were garbage. They were talented but the label wasn’t working in the right direction. Their CEO was in prison for several years and when he got out, he seemed more interested in promoting his issues with the old roster than in building the new one.
it's amazing how Irv Gotti took Eastwood & Crooked I & had people buzzing allover them "Nexxt Niggaz," "Connected," "Baby" -- Irv Gotti had these guys rolling --
Except he didn’t. Murder Inc. was already starting to sink. They did a couple songs with Death Row artists and a bunch of people on West Coast music discussion forums like this exagerrated the collaborations into “Oh my God! Death Row is coming back!”. Only one of these songs was a single. The Crooked I version wasn’t on the album, just the video. The video got moderate airplay. Since a Death Row artist was actually featured in a music video that was shown on a music channel, you’re now spinning it like the video got played every hour on BET and Irv Gotti got them all this exposure. If those same songs were done with someone like Nelly and had the same reception, they’d already be forgotten.
I'm not saying the new generation was "better than" or even equal to, but they never got the same opportunities the first generation of Row artists had with all the Daily Video spins, MTV promotion, MTV News updates, magazine promotion, radio airplay (as you mentioned, even less than average talent like Lady of Rage got mad spins!)
Firstly, I never said Rage was a less than average talent. Secondly, your argument of the same opportunities is irrelevant. If the artists who were on Ruff Ryders, Volume 4, were on Ruff Ryders, Volume 2, maybe they would be household names too. What’s your point?
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R U Still Down? was an Interscope album with unreleased 2pac recordings prior to 1995. The track you're talking about was recorded while 2pac was on Death Row in 1996 and wasn't released until 97 I think.
Correct. Pac did, I believe, revisit some of his unreleased track concepts, when he got to Death Row but everything put out on "R U Still Down" was material recorded under his Interscope contract. The track Jon B. mentions was a song for his own album.
So many lies and falsehoods from this love33 character
Also true. It's almost humorous how exaggerated he gets. Anything Death Row did with anyone remotely popular was some "major hit", even if it was just an album cut that never even got played on the radio. While their actual hits were on every channel and radio station non-stop. As someone who actually remembers that time period, yes, they were hit records but the only West Coast song that was constantly played everywhere in 1995-96 to the point of exhaustion was "Gangsta's Paradise".
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First of all, I remember hearing "Change The Game Remix" allover Power 106, and I traveled to Detroit and they had it regularly in the playlist on WJLB 97.9 -- It was also played on Hot 97 in NY, go look it up it was on their playlist
Next, Top Dogg WAS promoted heavily by Interscope when he was on Death Row, in fact his hit track "All About U" was featured on MTV, The Box, and BET.
Here's the video that was played allover:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y0v5DVoJxQ
Also, here is the Soopafly video that was in rotation on BET and THE BOX from "The Chronic 2000" & "Dat Whoopty Whoop" (was supposed to be released on DR/DPG Records)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVaEx-j4Zjk
Next,Daz was kicked off Death Row after a visit with Suge Knight in 2000 -- He took Soopafly with him, who was signed to Death Row/DPG Records, and Daz also ran up to the Bay to visit JT The Bigga Figga to teach him how to release indy albums -- after he learned this, he went and started dropping stolen material ("RAW," Soopafly album, Makaveli & Dillinger, etc.) - Daz was originally supposed to be a strong part of TGFR (obviously he was the lead producer at the label), and instead it featured a new version of "Gangsta Rap" which pulled Daz off and Hutch redid the beat and they added Scarface, then they changed the album to diss Daz and REMOVE Top Dogg -- Top Dogg recorded multiple tracks with Eastwood -- these were all removed -- Also, that version of "Gangsta Rap" got pushed back to Dogg Pound '2002' album -- Crooked I said multiple times right after Daz got booted, he started being a major hater against Crooked after he asked him to leave with him and Crook told him Hell No that he's going to get his album released.
Yes, I remember Tharow.com putting "The Vault" up there -- They also cancelled it soon after as I mentioned they split it into the 2 double albums -- I also remember ThaRow.Com putting singles from "Still I Rise" on there (The Outlawz owed Suge 1 album, and this was it, which is why the album was called 2Pac + "Outlawz" -- "Still I Rise") -- Also, LOOK at the album credits -- SUGE KNIGHT is the Executive Producer -- Source: http://www.angelfire.com/wa/DefRow/a.stillrise.html
Here's a catalog of Death Row releases: http://www.angelfire.com/wa/DefRow/albums.html
** Notice: "Still I Rise" is on there!
And here's where you're wrong -- Suge OWNED ALL HIS PUBLISHING -- he mentioned it OVER and OVER again in Interviews -- Anyone he signed to Death Row, he owned the publishing on in some capacity (either shared or he owned it all) -- what happened with Dr. Dre is that he got a judge to issue an order that Suge could only reissue the music "as is", except for the SINGLES, which appeared on compilations ("Keep Their Heads Ringing" was re-issued on Death Row's Greatest Hits) -- In exchange the judge ruled Suge owned the rights to the album title "The Chronic 2000," which is why Suge had to cut the tracks with the Top Dogg ft Dr Dre off the album -- Dr Dre could not call his album "Chronic 2001", the real name of the album is "Dr. Dre 2001" -- There's no "Chronic" in the album title, just a pic of a chronic leaf on the cover
R U STILL DOWN Death Row Unreleased -- https://soundcloud.com/2pac-ogs-and-unreleased/2pac-r-u-still-down-og-unreleased-original-version-rare-death-row-records/recommended
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO_daEkpWHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dJ0ctJsAro
And Irv Gotti showed he could push Suge's artists -- there's a rumor that Suge got pissed about Crook working over there and blackballed him quietly (kept promising him he would drop the album, but really had no plans to drop it) -- they said that was Suge's way of getting back at artists -- lock them in longterm contracts where he owns the publishing and then put them in stalemate and never release their album, meanwhile tricking them into thinking the album is "coming soon"
You give Suge no credit when Death Row was ALL Suge -- the artists when they left never became as good as they were on Death Row, with Dre being the only exception as "2001" outsold "The Chronic" -- but "The Chronic" set off the entire G-Funk Era with the mainstream explosion -- EVERY other Artist who has left Death Row except Bow Wow, has become worse than they were before --> FACT
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First of all, I remember hearing "Change The Game Remix" allover Power 106, and I traveled to Detroit and they had it regularly in the playlist on WJLB 97.9 -- It was also played on Hot 97 in NY, go look it up it was on their playlist
The fact that you remember hearing it doesn’t go very far. You seem to remember a lot of things that didn’t actually happen like there being a non-tagged version of the song on 2002, which is not the case.
As far as looking it up, I have. I see the original version included as a single with a chart position. I don’t see any for the remix so unless you can provide a link, you’re essentially asking me to go look for proof of something that I have never stated. This is your argument, you can provide the links.
Next, Top Dogg WAS promoted heavily by Interscope when he was on Death Row, in fact his hit track "All About U" was featured on MTV, The Box, and BET.
That ISN’T heavy promotion. Death Row had an unreleased video they actually filmed with Tupac in their vaults. Death Row and Amaru were both involved in putting together “Greatest Hits” but since Snoop was no longer on peaceful terms, Death Row pulled him off of the “Hits” version and added Top Dogg as a way to feature a new artist. They did a similar thing with Swoop G by adding him to a pre-existing Snoop video/song for “Head Doctor”. Neither video was a major hit.
“Changes” was the hit single off “Greatest Hits”. It’s the one that was pushed as the first single. It was the one that got the most spins on radio and most play as a video. It was nominated for a VMA and was arguably the most popular posthumous hit for Pac. Death Row put out “Unconditional Love” as the follow-up single but that didn’t chart anywhere near as well.
To claim that Top Dogg was promoted heavily is preposterous. He was given a short verse on a song that ended up getting put out as a video. They didn’t send him on a promotional tour to premiere or push it. He wasn’t given any major featured articles. He wasn’t given a follow-up single. Hell, this song never charted as a single in conjunction with “Greatest Hits” and am pretty sure it was never released as such. No record of it in Pac’s list of album singles. The Outlawz were a whole lot more singles/videos and even got an album released with Pac and I wouldn’t say they were “promoted heavily” either. I also wouldn’t say they were “heavily promoting” RL because he sang on “Until the End of Time” and was included in the video (which got much more play than “All About U”).
Also, here is the Soopafly video that was in rotation on BET and THE BOX from "The Chronic 2000" & "Dat Whoopty Whoop" (was supposed to be released on DR/DPG Records)
Great. Thanks for showing me a video that I already knew existed. Death Row made lots of videos for songs that didn’t get played very much, if at all. I’m not arguing that they didn’t make videos or release singles. I’m challenging you on your argument that they were hits or that Interscope was in the process of “heavily promoting” them.
Next,Daz was kicked off Death Row after a visit with Suge Knight in 2000 -- He took Soopafly with him, who was signed to Death Row/DPG Records, and Daz also ran up to the Bay to visit JT The Bigga Figga to teach him how to release indy albums.
Daz and Soopafly actually weren’t cool at this time. Big C-Style did an interview talking about how Daz rolled up on him at a swap meet and beat him up. I can’t recall the specifics at this time but they didn’t leave at the same time.
Daz was originally supposed to be a strong part of TGFR (obviously he was the lead producer at the label), and instead it featured a new version of "Gangsta Rap" which pulled Daz off and Hutch redid the beat and they added Scarface, then they changed the album to diss Daz and REMOVE Top Dogg -- Top Dogg recorded multiple tracks with Eastwood -- these were all removed -- Also, that version of "Gangsta Rap" got pushed back to Dogg Pound '2002' album -- Crooked I said multiple times right after Daz got booted, he started being a major hater against Crooked after he asked him to leave with him and Crook told him Hell No that he's going to get his album released.
“Gangsta Rap” existed in multiple versions but it was never a Daz track. It was produced by Fredwreck originally and was a Kurupt solo. Top Dogg was already getting pushed to the side by the time that “Too Gangsta” came out. He doesn’t have a single featured song on there. Eastwood wasn’t on there either and didn’t get starting pushed as a Death Row artist until much later.
I also remember ThaRow.Com putting singles from "Still I Rise" on there (The Outlawz owed Suge 1 album, and this was it, which is why the album was called 2Pac + "Outlawz" -- "Still I Rise") -- Also, LOOK at the album credits -- SUGE KNIGHT is the Executive Producer -- Source: http://www.angelfire.com/wa/DefRow/a.stillrise.html
Alright, let’s break this one down real quick before you start confusing yourself again.
#1 – Your source is clearly just a link to a fan page.
#2 – Even the fan page says that “Death Row/Amaru logos were not included”.
#3 – My original quote regarding this was, “Their logo isn't on the back cover and Suge isn't listed as executive producer.” Your fan page backs up what I said.
Death Row and Amaru were involved in the creation of this album but not the promotion. Their logos were not included and Suge is not credited as an executive producer so while they may have received proceeds and credit for the album, people were not buying it off the strength of Death Row’s involvement because Death Row was not advertised. If you own the physical album, the CD back cover, the back of the booklet, and the CD itself all give sole copyright to Interscope, 1999. Suge is given publishing credit but there is no mention of Death Row inside other than in the artist thank you’s.
Here is the Wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Still_I_Rise_(album)
It lists label as “Interscope Records”.
Death Row/Amaru were obviously involved in the process but the fact remains they withdrew their credit so the album sold because it was 2Pac, not because it was Death Row.
And here's where you're wrong -- Suge OWNED ALL HIS PUBLISHING -- he mentioned it OVER and OVER again in Interviews -- Anyone he signed to Death Row, he owned the publishing on in some capacity (either shared or he owned it all)
Which would be why he couldn’t put out releases on certain artists. He didn’t own full publishing. He owned the masters. He had publishing credit but Dre, Pac, Nate had publishing as well.
Suge could only reissue the music "as is", except for the SINGLES, which appeared on compilations ("Keep Their Heads Ringing" was re-issued on Death Row's Greatest Hits)
Death Row’s Greatest Hits had Priority music on it because of their working relationship, hence why “No Vaseline” was on there. Death Row owns publishing on it but the rights are shared with different companies.
And Irv Gotti showed he could push Suge's artists
No, he didn’t. He showed he could put them in a video.
There's a rumor that Suge got pissed about Crook working over there and blackballed him quietly (kept promising him he would drop the album, but really had no plans to drop it)
That doesn’t even make sense. Death Row had a working relationship with Murder, Inc. In order for him to work with them, his label would have had to sign off on it. If they didn’t want him to be in a video, they could have also stopped it. It would hurt them more to not clear him for the video. In which case, Murder Inc would have gone in another direction than it would to give him the go ahead and blackball him later.
You give Suge no credit when Death Row was ALL Suge
I have given Suge credit. I stated that one of the reasons the label fell apart after 1996 was because he was not around to handle the business side anymore. You’re the one crediting all their pre-1996 success to Interscope pushing them. By doing this, you can mold the narrative that they were still hot in the later years but they just didn’t have Interscope to help them when the reality was they just didn’t have a strong creative direction once they hit a cold spot.
EVERY other Artist who has left Death Row except Bow Wow, has become worse than they were before --> FACT
That isn’t a FACT. That’s an opinion. If you look at their peak period from inception until about 1997, you had only a handful of artists/groups who put out albums (Dr. Dre, 2Pac, Snoop, Tha Dogg Pound) and a few with hit singles (Rage, Nate Dogg).
Pac was a superstar BEFORE Death Row and as mentioned whether Death Row was on the release or not, he still sells.
Snoop is still a huge star. He continues to chart without Death Row and has remained a household name for 20 years. He’s had more #1 singles off the label, than he has when he was on it. Death Row has put out Snoop projects after 1997, they haven’t sold as well as Snoop’s own projects on other labels.
Tha Dogg Pound had a huge hit with “Dogg Food”. If you look at DPG (post-97), here’s the comparison of peak positions for their major label projects.
DEATH ROW
Retaliation, Revenge, and GetBack (Daz) - Billboard #8
2002 (Dogg Pound) – Billboard #36
Against the Grain (Kurupt) – Billboard #60
NON-DEATH ROW
Kuruption (Kurupt) – Billboard #8
Streetz Iz A Mutha (Kurupt) – Billboard #31
Cali Iz Active (DPG) – Billboard #28, #1 Independent Charts
Rage had a hit single with “Afro Puffs”. Once the label lost momentum, she put out an album that peaked at #32 with no hit singles.
Nate Dogg had one major hit single on Death Row. He went on to have countless more after he left. His solo career never took off either on Row or after it but his contributions to best-selling albums were far more frequent.
It wasn’t just the label and Suge making the roster hot, it was the talent working together. Once Dre left, they never had a single new breakout artist (no hit singles or platinum albums).
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pretty much people only cared about 2pac and when he died death row died 8)
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Once again, "All About U" wasn't a Top Dogg song, so it wasn't HIS hit.
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First of all, I remember hearing "Change The Game Remix" allover Power 106, and I traveled to Detroit and they had it regularly in the playlist on WJLB 97.9 -- It was also played on Hot 97 in NY, go look it up it was on their playlist
The fact that you remember hearing it doesn’t go very far. You seem to remember a lot of things that didn’t actually happen like there being a non-tagged version of the song on 2002, which is not the case.
As far as looking it up, I have. I see the original version included as a single with a chart position. I don’t see any for the remix so unless you can provide a link, you’re essentially asking me to go look for proof of something that I have never stated. This is your argument, you can provide the links.
Next, Top Dogg WAS promoted heavily by Interscope when he was on Death Row, in fact his hit track "All About U" was featured on MTV, The Box, and BET.
That ISN’T heavy promotion. Death Row had an unreleased video they actually filmed with Tupac in their vaults. Death Row and Amaru were both involved in putting together “Greatest Hits” but since Snoop was no longer on peaceful terms, Death Row pulled him off of the “Hits” version and added Top Dogg as a way to feature a new artist. They did a similar thing with Swoop G by adding him to a pre-existing Snoop video/song for “Head Doctor”. Neither video was a major hit.
“Changes” was the hit single off “Greatest Hits”. It’s the one that was pushed as the first single. It was the one that got the most spins on radio and most play as a video. It was nominated for a VMA and was arguably the most popular posthumous hit for Pac. Death Row put out “Unconditional Love” as the follow-up single but that didn’t chart anywhere near as well.
To claim that Top Dogg was promoted heavily is preposterous. He was given a short verse on a song that ended up getting put out as a video. They didn’t send him on a promotional tour to premiere or push it. He wasn’t given any major featured articles. He wasn’t given a follow-up single. Hell, this song never charted as a single in conjunction with “Greatest Hits” and am pretty sure it was never released as such. No record of it in Pac’s list of album singles. The Outlawz were a whole lot more singles/videos and even got an album released with Pac and I wouldn’t say they were “promoted heavily” either. I also wouldn’t say they were “heavily promoting” RL because he sang on “Until the End of Time” and was included in the video (which got much more play than “All About U”).
Also, here is the Soopafly video that was in rotation on BET and THE BOX from "The Chronic 2000" & "Dat Whoopty Whoop" (was supposed to be released on DR/DPG Records)
Great. Thanks for showing me a video that I already knew existed. Death Row made lots of videos for songs that didn’t get played very much, if at all. I’m not arguing that they didn’t make videos or release singles. I’m challenging you on your argument that they were hits or that Interscope was in the process of “heavily promoting” them.
Next,Daz was kicked off Death Row after a visit with Suge Knight in 2000 -- He took Soopafly with him, who was signed to Death Row/DPG Records, and Daz also ran up to the Bay to visit JT The Bigga Figga to teach him how to release indy albums.
Daz and Soopafly actually weren’t cool at this time. Big C-Style did an interview talking about how Daz rolled up on him at a swap meet and beat him up. I can’t recall the specifics at this time but they didn’t leave at the same time.
Daz was originally supposed to be a strong part of TGFR (obviously he was the lead producer at the label), and instead it featured a new version of "Gangsta Rap" which pulled Daz off and Hutch redid the beat and they added Scarface, then they changed the album to diss Daz and REMOVE Top Dogg -- Top Dogg recorded multiple tracks with Eastwood -- these were all removed -- Also, that version of "Gangsta Rap" got pushed back to Dogg Pound '2002' album -- Crooked I said multiple times right after Daz got booted, he started being a major hater against Crooked after he asked him to leave with him and Crook told him Hell No that he's going to get his album released.
“Gangsta Rap” existed in multiple versions but it was never a Daz track. It was produced by Fredwreck originally and was a Kurupt solo. Top Dogg was already getting pushed to the side by the time that “Too Gangsta” came out. He doesn’t have a single featured song on there. Eastwood wasn’t on there either and didn’t get starting pushed as a Death Row artist until much later.
I also remember ThaRow.Com putting singles from "Still I Rise" on there (The Outlawz owed Suge 1 album, and this was it, which is why the album was called 2Pac + "Outlawz" -- "Still I Rise") -- Also, LOOK at the album credits -- SUGE KNIGHT is the Executive Producer -- Source: http://www.angelfire.com/wa/DefRow/a.stillrise.html
Alright, let’s break this one down real quick before you start confusing yourself again.
#1 – Your source is clearly just a link to a fan page.
#2 – Even the fan page says that “Death Row/Amaru logos were not included”.
#3 – My original quote regarding this was, “Their logo isn't on the back cover and Suge isn't listed as executive producer.” Your fan page backs up what I said.
Death Row and Amaru were involved in the creation of this album but not the promotion. Their logos were not included and Suge is not credited as an executive producer so while they may have received proceeds and credit for the album, people were not buying it off the strength of Death Row’s involvement because Death Row was not advertised. If you own the physical album, the CD back cover, the back of the booklet, and the CD itself all give sole copyright to Interscope, 1999. Suge is given publishing credit but there is no mention of Death Row inside other than in the artist thank you’s.
Here is the Wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Still_I_Rise_(album)
It lists label as “Interscope Records”.
Death Row/Amaru were obviously involved in the process but the fact remains they withdrew their credit so the album sold because it was 2Pac, not because it was Death Row.
And here's where you're wrong -- Suge OWNED ALL HIS PUBLISHING -- he mentioned it OVER and OVER again in Interviews -- Anyone he signed to Death Row, he owned the publishing on in some capacity (either shared or he owned it all)
Which would be why he couldn’t put out releases on certain artists. He didn’t own full publishing. He owned the masters. He had publishing credit but Dre, Pac, Nate had publishing as well.
Suge could only reissue the music "as is", except for the SINGLES, which appeared on compilations ("Keep Their Heads Ringing" was re-issued on Death Row's Greatest Hits)
Death Row’s Greatest Hits had Priority music on it because of their working relationship, hence why “No Vaseline” was on there. Death Row owns publishing on it but the rights are shared with different companies.
And Irv Gotti showed he could push Suge's artists
No, he didn’t. He showed he could put them in a video.
There's a rumor that Suge got pissed about Crook working over there and blackballed him quietly (kept promising him he would drop the album, but really had no plans to drop it)
That doesn’t even make sense. Death Row had a working relationship with Murder, Inc. In order for him to work with them, his label would have had to sign off on it. If they didn’t want him to be in a video, they could have also stopped it. It would hurt them more to not clear him for the video. In which case, Murder Inc would have gone in another direction than it would to give him the go ahead and blackball him later.
You give Suge no credit when Death Row was ALL Suge
I have given Suge credit. I stated that one of the reasons the label fell apart after 1996 was because he was not around to handle the business side anymore. You’re the one crediting all their pre-1996 success to Interscope pushing them. By doing this, you can mold the narrative that they were still hot in the later years but they just didn’t have Interscope to help them when the reality was they just didn’t have a strong creative direction once they hit a cold spot.
EVERY other Artist who has left Death Row except Bow Wow, has become worse than they were before --> FACT
That isn’t a FACT. That’s an opinion. If you look at their peak period from inception until about 1997, you had only a handful of artists/groups who put out albums (Dr. Dre, 2Pac, Snoop, Tha Dogg Pound) and a few with hit singles (Rage, Nate Dogg).
Pac was a superstar BEFORE Death Row and as mentioned whether Death Row was on the release or not, he still sells.
Snoop is still a huge star. He continues to chart without Death Row and has remained a household name for 20 years. He’s had more #1 singles off the label, than he has when he was on it. Death Row has put out Snoop projects after 1997, they haven’t sold as well as Snoop’s own projects on other labels.
Tha Dogg Pound had a huge hit with “Dogg Food”. If you look at DPG (post-97), here’s the comparison of peak positions for their major label projects.
DEATH ROW
Retaliation, Revenge, and GetBack (Daz) - Billboard #8
2002 (Dogg Pound) – Billboard #36
Against the Grain (Kurupt) – Billboard #60
NON-DEATH ROW
Kuruption (Kurupt) – Billboard #8
Streetz Iz A Mutha (Kurupt) – Billboard #31
Cali Iz Active (DPG) – Billboard #28, #1 Independent Charts
Rage had a hit single with “Afro Puffs”. Once the label lost momentum, she put out an album that peaked at #32 with no hit singles.
Nate Dogg had one major hit single on Death Row. He went on to have countless more after he left. His solo career never took off either on Row or after it but his contributions to best-selling albums were far more frequent.
It wasn’t just the label and Suge making the roster hot, it was the talent working together. Once Dre left, they never had a single new breakout artist (no hit singles or platinum albums).
Interesting Spin -- I can tell you I remember hearing "Change The Game Remix" multiple times on the radio -- that was the Remix, so it's like the "Ha Remix" from Juvy, the song itself was the hit, and the Remix was a sub-hit that drove DJ Clue album and Dogg Pound "2002" album debuting at #36 as you correctly pointed out.
2Pac + Outlawz - Still I Rise -- Suge is the executive producer
Be careful with Wikipedia -- ANYONE can edit those articles - have to look at the Sources on anything on that website
To claim that Top Dogg was promoted heavily is preposterous. He was given a short verse on a song that ended up getting put out as a video.
Yes, YGD the Top Dogg was the big push for Death Row -- He got a bigger push than Crooked I, and Crook got a push too -- Suge put A LOT of stock in him when he shocked the world with the "Goin Back To Cali" track he threw on the Gang Related Soundtrack that you had to let play through a blank segment to hear -- then he invested in his future with the 2Pac single (that was the big push to introduce him to the world, during a highpoint of Pac's career after he had the "Changes" single, just right after he passed) -- he recorded multiple albums on Death Row -- he was pushed on MTV and magazines, that was the big medium in 1998 for music -- Suge was running around mentioning he's got the Top Dogg coming out and signed up on his label --
Great. Thanks for showing me a video that I already knew existed. Death Row made lots of videos for songs that didn’t get played very much, if at all. I’m not arguing that they didn’t make videos or release singles. I’m challenging you on your argument that they were hits or that Interscope was in the process of “heavily promoting” them.
Sure, but they didn't make videos just for the memories -- remember the costs involved with these videos in the 90's and early 2000's -- Videos have actually went backwards as far as budgets since CD Bootlegs & videos moved from television to the internet (they stopped putting the Busta Rhymes $300k videos together for the most part when it shifted off tv to the net)
Top Dogg was already getting pushed to the side by the time that “Too Gangsta” came out. He doesn’t have a single featured song on there. Eastwood wasn’t on there either and didn’t get starting pushed as a Death Row artist until much later.
This is not entirely accurate -- Top Dogg and Eastwood were on the label together and recorded a lot of tracks together -- Yes, Top Dogg was about to get cut, and Eastwood was about to be pushed towards the front of the line, but they both hammered out multiple tracks together: here's a few for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mxb9odQQy4 -- This was originally supposed to be on the TGFR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfl6Mtq0vGA -- Here's Eastwood & Ray J with "The West"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmck384d5Y -- Eastwood & Top Dogg "Raw & Uncut" -- This was also on the table for TGFR
Just A lil Bit ft. Sharna
Dope Money
Who Do U Believe In
Just a few that come to mind
Daz and Soopafly actually weren’t cool at this time. Big C-Style did an interview talking about how Daz rolled up on him at a swap meet and beat him up. I can’t recall the specifics at this time but they didn’t leave at the same time.
Daz went after EVERYONE after Suge booted him off -- Really lame because other cats were focusing on their career prospects and doing them, and he declared internet war on anyone that aligned themselves (just because he got booted, really lame!) -- Crook talked about how he came up to him and told him to leave and then Crook told him No and the beef happened -- Soopafly was the same thing -- Daz lost his job so he thought everyone should just bolt the company -- that's how his brain works -- Then he had the beef with Kurupt just because he signed up to work with Suge -- instead of being a smart businessman and recognizing the label is a pathway for a career, he went at anyone on the label
That doesn’t even make sense. Death Row had a working relationship with Murder, Inc. In order for him to work with them, his label would have had to sign off on it. If they didn’t want him to be in a video, they could have also stopped it. It would hurt them more to not clear him for the video. In which case, Murder Inc would have gone in another direction than it would to give him the go ahead and blackball him later.
In one of Crook's past interviews he talks about how he recorded all the albums and music, and for some reason it was never released -- he went to Suge multiple times, and he got angry -- this was right around when he re-recorded "Hood Star"album
No, he didn’t. He showed he could put them in a video.
Irv Gotti did WAY more than put them "in a video" -- he featured them heavily on his projects heavily -- in fact, they got more prime exposure with Murder Inc at that time because that label ran the game until 50 Cent rubbed them out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XAqWbIliPY
Hutch and the Outlawz's E.D.I. were credited as music supervisors, and Suge Knight was the OG Executive Producer on "Still I Rise" -- Here's an article with Hutch talking about being the Dr. Dre of Death Row after he took Daz's job as Lead Producer:
http://www.mtv.com/news/1445272/with-suge-behind-bars-big-hutch-is-in-charge/
As I mentioned before, this is where the disagreements came up with Amaru, in that Amaru wasn't all bout it bout it with Suge using 2Pac's Material to build the new Death Row, whereas Suge took the standpoint that Pac always worked with Tha Row in-house artists -- this is where a lot of events happened behind the scenes in that Suge didn't want these Pac albums becoming mainstream politicized events with all these mainstream cats like Eminem allover Pac material, where Afeni wanted to make the money this way -- On the other hand, Afeni didn't want Hutch calling all the shots and loading up the album with Death Row artists so that Suge could push his new roster -- she viewed this as Suge running it as promotional vehicle for the new roster rather than trying to capitalize and max out sales -- that's why she was okay with Daz, but didn't know Hutch -- Daz was supposed to be the shotcaller behind Suge with the Pac projects before he was fired, then all of a sudden Big Hutch comes along, and they want to put the new artists on there
These are a few of the many many tracks that Death Row recorded lining up the new roster for the 2Pac albums (and there are MANY, this is just a small little appetizer):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyHzdIPsv-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z4NufnEkQE -- Pushed back to Kurupt's album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3PGffnFrLc (Crooked I & Tha Realest also made their underground track "Drunk Drivin In My Glasshouse" based off the Pac verse on this track)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jALP4taxiyk
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Here we go again….
Interesting Spin -- I can tell you I remember hearing "Change The Game Remix" multiple times on the radio -- that was the Remix, so it's like the "Ha Remix" from Juvy, the song itself was the hit, and the Remix was a sub-hit that drove DJ Clue album and Dogg Pound "2002" album debuting at #36 as you correctly pointed out.
It isn’t a spin. You claim to have heard it multiple times on the radio but there is no listing of it as being a major rotation in terms of radio spins or even being pressed/released as a radio single so even if your account is accurate, that isn’t evidence of it being any kind of hit, it means you heard it on a specific radio station. You’ve already set a precidenct as having a very exaggerated and questionable view of what constitutes a “hit” and having shaky recollections of how big certain singles/videos were.
2Pac + Outlawz - Still I Rise -- Suge is the executive producer
Uncredited. Suge and Afeni would have been executive producers as Amaru/Death Row were involved in the production of the album but both labels pulled their credit over disputes stemming from the success of “Greatest Hits”. There isn’t a Death Row or Amaru logo on any portion of the physical CD release and they are not credited as executive producers in the album booklet. You are making the argument that “Still I Rise” sold of the strength of Death Row’s popularity and they weren’t actively promoted as being involved with the project.
Be careful with Wikipedia -- ANYONE can edit those articles - have to look at the Sources on anything on that website
True, which is why, in this case, I brought up the actual album release, which only has Interscope Records as a listed label with the copyright notice. In other cases, I have cited only information that has a link to it, such as Billboard website numbers.
Yes, YGD the Top Dogg was the big push for Death Row -- He got a bigger push than Crooked I, and Crook got a push too.
Completely untrue. Suge wasn’t home during Top Dogg’s peak role at Death Row. Crooked I was easily the most pushed artist from 2000 until about late 2003. He was going to be on the first single from the 2Pac Vault project until Amaru pulled rank and had it changed. He put him on 2002 with “Gangsta Rap” (presumably, the intro to the song was added to more prominently feature him), he mentioned him in several interviews as being “the best in the West”, he brought him to New York to debut “So Damn Hood” during an interview with Angie Martinez, he was featured on the XXL cover with the new roster (May 2003), he brought up on national TV for an interview with Jay Mohr on Real Sports where he specifically brought him out in the middle of the interview and had him spit a freestyle, he was the most featured artist on “Dysfunktional Family” soundtrack with six songs and was the featured artist on the selected single/video. Suge was actually out of prison at this point and could actually promote him but it just didn’t pick up how it should have and by late 2003, he was asking to leave and was getting fazed out in favor of Kurupt. He wasn’t being blackballed for working with Irv Gotti. Suge stopped promoting him because he was pushing to be released from his contract with the label.
Suge put A LOT of stock in him when he shocked the world with the "Goin Back To Cali" track he threw on the Gang Related Soundtrack that you had to let play through a blank segment to hear
Yes, lots of stock in him by putting him in a hidden track on a two-disc album with no mention in the credits that wasn’t even included in but a rare amount of pressings. Most versions of that album don’t even contain that song and he’s not featured anywhere else on that album.
then he invested in his future with the 2Pac single (that was the big push to introduce him to the world, during a highpoint of Pac's career after he had the "Changes" single, just right after he passed)
Gang Related was released in October 1997. 2Pac’s “Greatest Hits” didn’t come out until November 1998. In between that time, Death Row put out two solo albums (Daz, Mich’elle). Neither one had a single Top Dogg/YGD track on there. Now, “Changes” was already acknowledged as being the first single, which means it would have been the most prominently-pushed song connected to that project. In other words, they wouldn’t have pushed anything else on that album for months. And when they did release a second single, it was “Unconditional Love”. They shot a video for that one and it never got much play.
Contrary to what you think, “All About U” was a three-year-old already released song. They added Top Dogg because they didn’t want to feature Snoop and had an unreleased video they filmed with Pac already. It never took off as a major hit. Period.
He was pushed on MTV and magazines, that was the big medium in 1998 for music
No, he wasn’t. In 1998, they had already pulled “Goin’ Back to Cali” from the retail release of Gang Related soundtrack. He wasn’t on RRGB or Hung Jury and didn’t have any videos out. Why would he be on MTV and what would he be promoting? Why would the label be pushing him over the artists that actually had music out?
Suge was running around mentioning he's got the Top Dogg coming out and signed up on his label.
Running around where exactly? Suge was locked up in prison from 1997 until 2001. He was very rarely granted in-person interviews. Most interviews were conducted in print via prison telephone or by having a reporter go in with a notepad or recorder. And at this point, the focus of the media was far more into the East/West feud, the murders of Tupac and Biggie, the falling out with Dre and Snoop, and his time in prison. He wasn’t heavily promoting new artists and even if he was, I doubt the magazines would have made them the focus when he was being connected to murder conspiracies and extortion.
Sure, but they didn't make videos just for the
memories -- remember the costs involved with these videos in the 90's and early 2000's -- Videos have actually went backwards as far as budgets since CD Bootlegs & videos moved from television to the internet (they stopped putting the Busta Rhymes $300k videos together for the most part when it shifted off tv to the net)
No, they made them to promote their music but not every music video that gets made is played in heavy rotation. Loads of big-budget videos were being made at that time. Not all were being played. New Death Row videos were not getting played frequently in 1997-98. You had Tupac and that was about it. And even some of his videos were not getting heavily played.
Irv Gotti did WAY more than put them "in a video" -- he featured them heavily on his projects heavily -- in fact, they got more prime exposure with Murder Inc at that time because that label ran the game until 50 Cent rubbed them out
Heavily, huh? Let’s examine this.
The first Murder Inc. release to feature Death Row artists was “Irv Gotti Presents, The Inc”. It featured one song, “Next Nigguz”, which had Crooked I and Eastwood on it with five other featured artists. Not only was it not a single but nobody on that song even went on to have an album for years. This would have been at the peak of Murder Inc’s popularity, right before they start to fall.
The second release to feature them was the “Remix” version of the same album. This, once again, had ONE feature. Crooked I on “Baby” with Ashanti. Contrary to your theory that “the label ran the game”, this was late 2002 and people were getting tired of them. This album debuted at #26. It should also be noted that “Baby” came with numerous versions (one with Scarface, one solo, and one with Crooked) and Crooked was never pushed as a prominent selling point. Crooked ended up being in the video but since he wasn’t on the version on Ashanti’s album (which went multi-platinum), the exposure was limited.
Their third and final appearance was on “Connected” on Ja Rule’s Last Temptation. Not a single. Released right around the time when the label was starting to sink.
By my calculations, that amounts to approximately three songs and one video. The closest claim to fame here was being in a video for an Ashanti single and being included in a posse cut with Cadillac Tah on the last top-selling album Murder Inc had.
Since you’re the one making the claim, how exactly were they being “heavily featured” again?
Hutch and the Outlawz's E.D.I. were credited as music supervisors, and Suge Knight was the OG Executive Producer on "Still I Rise" -- Here's an article with Hutch talking about being the Dr. Dre of Death Row after he took Daz's job as Lead Producer:
http://www.mtv.com/news/1445272/with-suge-behind-bars-big-hutch-is-in-charge/
You got your facts mixed up, homeboy. Read your own article again. It says Hutch and E.D.I. were music supervisors on Until The End of Time, not Still I Rise. From what I understand, Hutch didn’t come onboard until Too Gangsta For Radio.
As I mentioned before, this is where the disagreements came up with Amaru, in that Amaru wasn't all bout it bout it with Suge using 2Pac's Material to build the new Death Row, whereas Suge took the standpoint that Pac always worked with Tha Row in-house artists -- this is where a lot of events happened behind the scenes in that Suge didn't want these Pac albums becoming mainstream politicized events with all these mainstream cats like Eminem allover Pac material, where Afeni wanted to make the money this way -- On the other hand, Afeni didn't want Hutch calling all the shots and loading up the album with Death Row artists so that Suge could push his new roster -- she viewed this as Suge running it as promotional vehicle for the new roster rather than trying to capitalize and max out sales -- that's why she was okay with Daz, but didn't know Hutch -- Daz was supposed to be the shotcaller behind Suge with the Pac projects before he was fired, then all of a sudden Big Hutch comes along, and they want to put the new artists on there
Parts of this are true. Afeni didn’t want Suge using Pac to promote Death Row but more specifically, she didn’t want anyone using Pac. She wanted complete control of his music and likeness. She compromised with Death Row because they had some legal ground to stand on because of the contracts. I have never heard anything about her being specifically being against Hutch doing anything and she definitely wasn’t pulling for Daz. Those two had a huge falling out over “Makaveli & Dillinger” and he was dissing her pretty regularly on his website by this point so I don’t know where you got your info from. Seems like you took a small piece of truth and used it to spin your own story.
These are a few of the many many tracks that Death Row recorded lining up the new roster for the 2Pac albums (and there are MANY, this is just a small little appetizer):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z4NufnEkQE -- Pushed back to Kurupt's album
Not pushed back. Kurupt didn’t record this until he came back. He wasn’t working with Death Row during the UTEOT recordings. Hell, it’s pretty clear by Kurupt’s lyrics on the song that this was recorded much later as he’s throwing shade at artists being inserted into Pac’s music who never knew him and this really hadn’t become a trend until later on. UTEOT predates the addition of Nas, Ja Rule, Eminem, 50 Cent, and others being added to Pac recordings. Kurupt, while not publicly beefing with Suge, did not have a working relationship with Death Row from 1999 until he went back in 2002.
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I have physical copies of both the original and re-released Gang Related Soundtrack and neither have hidden tracks. For the re-release the songs by Top Dogg and Chocolate Bandit have full credits in them. I don't know what Love33 is smoking with all these Death Row fairy tales, but he's wildly off-base with most of everything he posts.
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I have physical copies of both the original and re-released Gang Related Soundtrack and neither have hidden tracks. For the re-release the songs by Top Dogg and Chocolate Bandit have full credits in them. I don't know what Love33 is smoking with all these Death Row fairy tales, but he's wildly off-base with most of everything he posts.
On my copy of Gang Related, it plays blank at the end for a few minutes then "Goin Back To Cali" comes on
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Here we go again….
Interesting Spin -- I can tell you I remember hearing "Change The Game Remix" multiple times on the radio -- that was the Remix, so it's like the "Ha Remix" from Juvy, the song itself was the hit, and the Remix was a sub-hit that drove DJ Clue album and Dogg Pound "2002" album debuting at #36 as you correctly pointed out.
It isn’t a spin. You claim to have heard it multiple times on the radio but there is no listing of it as being a major rotation in terms of radio spins or even being pressed/released as a radio single so even if your account is accurate, that isn’t evidence of it being any kind of hit, it means you heard it on a specific radio station. You’ve already set a precidenct as having a very exaggerated and questionable view of what constitutes a “hit” and having shaky recollections of how big certain singles/videos were.
2Pac + Outlawz - Still I Rise -- Suge is the executive producer
Uncredited. Suge and Afeni would have been executive producers as Amaru/Death Row were involved in the production of the album but both labels pulled their credit over disputes stemming from the success of “Greatest Hits”. There isn’t a Death Row or Amaru logo on any portion of the physical CD release and they are not credited as executive producers in the album booklet. You are making the argument that “Still I Rise” sold of the strength of Death Row’s popularity and they weren’t actively promoted as being involved with the project.
Be careful with Wikipedia -- ANYONE can edit those articles - have to look at the Sources on anything on that website
True, which is why, in this case, I brought up the actual album release, which only has Interscope Records as a listed label with the copyright notice. In other cases, I have cited only information that has a link to it, such as Billboard website numbers.
Yes, YGD the Top Dogg was the big push for Death Row -- He got a bigger push than Crooked I, and Crook got a push too.
Completely untrue. Suge wasn’t home during Top Dogg’s peak role at Death Row. Crooked I was easily the most pushed artist from 2000 until about late 2003. He was going to be on the first single from the 2Pac Vault project until Amaru pulled rank and had it changed. He put him on 2002 with “Gangsta Rap” (presumably, the intro to the song was added to more prominently feature him), he mentioned him in several interviews as being “the best in the West”, he brought him to New York to debut “So Damn Hood” during an interview with Angie Martinez, he was featured on the XXL cover with the new roster (May 2003), he brought up on national TV for an interview with Jay Mohr on Real Sports where he specifically brought him out in the middle of the interview and had him spit a freestyle, he was the most featured artist on “Dysfunktional Family” soundtrack with six songs and was the featured artist on the selected single/video. Suge was actually out of prison at this point and could actually promote him but it just didn’t pick up how it should have and by late 2003, he was asking to leave and was getting fazed out in favor of Kurupt. He wasn’t being blackballed for working with Irv Gotti. Suge stopped promoting him because he was pushing to be released from his contract with the label.
Suge put A LOT of stock in him when he shocked the world with the "Goin Back To Cali" track he threw on the Gang Related Soundtrack that you had to let play through a blank segment to hear
Yes, lots of stock in him by putting him in a hidden track on a two-disc album with no mention in the credits that wasn’t even included in but a rare amount of pressings. Most versions of that album don’t even contain that song and he’s not featured anywhere else on that album.
then he invested in his future with the 2Pac single (that was the big push to introduce him to the world, during a highpoint of Pac's career after he had the "Changes" single, just right after he passed)
Gang Related was released in October 1997. 2Pac’s “Greatest Hits” didn’t come out until November 1998. In between that time, Death Row put out two solo albums (Daz, Mich’elle). Neither one had a single Top Dogg/YGD track on there. Now, “Changes” was already acknowledged as being the first single, which means it would have been the most prominently-pushed song connected to that project. In other words, they wouldn’t have pushed anything else on that album for months. And when they did release a second single, it was “Unconditional Love”. They shot a video for that one and it never got much play.
Contrary to what you think, “All About U” was a three-year-old already released song. They added Top Dogg because they didn’t want to feature Snoop and had an unreleased video they filmed with Pac already. It never took off as a major hit. Period.
He was pushed on MTV and magazines, that was the big medium in 1998 for music
No, he wasn’t. In 1998, they had already pulled “Goin’ Back to Cali” from the retail release of Gang Related soundtrack. He wasn’t on RRGB or Hung Jury and didn’t have any videos out. Why would he be on MTV and what would he be promoting? Why would the label be pushing him over the artists that actually had music out?
Suge was running around mentioning he's got the Top Dogg coming out and signed up on his label.
Running around where exactly? Suge was locked up in prison from 1997 until 2001. He was very rarely granted in-person interviews. Most interviews were conducted in print via prison telephone or by having a reporter go in with a notepad or recorder. And at this point, the focus of the media was far more into the East/West feud, the murders of Tupac and Biggie, the falling out with Dre and Snoop, and his time in prison. He wasn’t heavily promoting new artists and even if he was, I doubt the magazines would have made them the focus when he was being connected to murder conspiracies and extortion.
Sure, but they didn't make videos just for the
memories -- remember the costs involved with these videos in the 90's and early 2000's -- Videos have actually went backwards as far as budgets since CD Bootlegs & videos moved from television to the internet (they stopped putting the Busta Rhymes $300k videos together for the most part when it shifted off tv to the net)
No, they made them to promote their music but not every music video that gets made is played in heavy rotation. Loads of big-budget videos were being made at that time. Not all were being played. New Death Row videos were not getting played frequently in 1997-98. You had Tupac and that was about it. And even some of his videos were not getting heavily played.
Irv Gotti did WAY more than put them "in a video" -- he featured them heavily on his projects heavily -- in fact, they got more prime exposure with Murder Inc at that time because that label ran the game until 50 Cent rubbed them out
Heavily, huh? Let’s examine this.
The first Murder Inc. release to feature Death Row artists was “Irv Gotti Presents, The Inc”. It featured one song, “Next Nigguz”, which had Crooked I and Eastwood on it with five other featured artists. Not only was it not a single but nobody on that song even went on to have an album for years. This would have been at the peak of Murder Inc’s popularity, right before they start to fall.
The second release to feature them was the “Remix” version of the same album. This, once again, had ONE feature. Crooked I on “Baby” with Ashanti. Contrary to your theory that “the label ran the game”, this was late 2002 and people were getting tired of them. This album debuted at #26. It should also be noted that “Baby” came with numerous versions (one with Scarface, one solo, and one with Crooked) and Crooked was never pushed as a prominent selling point. Crooked ended up being in the video but since he wasn’t on the version on Ashanti’s album (which went multi-platinum), the exposure was limited.
Their third and final appearance was on “Connected” on Ja Rule’s Last Temptation. Not a single. Released right around the time when the label was starting to sink.
By my calculations, that amounts to approximately three songs and one video. The closest claim to fame here was being in a video for an Ashanti single and being included in a posse cut with Cadillac Tah on the last top-selling album Murder Inc had.
Since you’re the one making the claim, how exactly were they being “heavily featured” again?
Hutch and the Outlawz's E.D.I. were credited as music supervisors, and Suge Knight was the OG Executive Producer on "Still I Rise" -- Here's an article with Hutch talking about being the Dr. Dre of Death Row after he took Daz's job as Lead Producer:
http://www.mtv.com/news/1445272/with-suge-behind-bars-big-hutch-is-in-charge/
You got your facts mixed up, homeboy. Read your own article again. It says Hutch and E.D.I. were music supervisors on Until The End of Time, not Still I Rise. From what I understand, Hutch didn’t come onboard until Too Gangsta For Radio.
As I mentioned before, this is where the disagreements came up with Amaru, in that Amaru wasn't all bout it bout it with Suge using 2Pac's Material to build the new Death Row, whereas Suge took the standpoint that Pac always worked with Tha Row in-house artists -- this is where a lot of events happened behind the scenes in that Suge didn't want these Pac albums becoming mainstream politicized events with all these mainstream cats like Eminem allover Pac material, where Afeni wanted to make the money this way -- On the other hand, Afeni didn't want Hutch calling all the shots and loading up the album with Death Row artists so that Suge could push his new roster -- she viewed this as Suge running it as promotional vehicle for the new roster rather than trying to capitalize and max out sales -- that's why she was okay with Daz, but didn't know Hutch -- Daz was supposed to be the shotcaller behind Suge with the Pac projects before he was fired, then all of a sudden Big Hutch comes along, and they want to put the new artists on there
Parts of this are true. Afeni didn’t want Suge using Pac to promote Death Row but more specifically, she didn’t want anyone using Pac. She wanted complete control of his music and likeness. She compromised with Death Row because they had some legal ground to stand on because of the contracts. I have never heard anything about her being specifically being against Hutch doing anything and she definitely wasn’t pulling for Daz. Those two had a huge falling out over “Makaveli & Dillinger” and he was dissing her pretty regularly on his website by this point so I don’t know where you got your info from. Seems like you took a small piece of truth and used it to spin your own story.
These are a few of the many many tracks that Death Row recorded lining up the new roster for the 2Pac albums (and there are MANY, this is just a small little appetizer):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z4NufnEkQE -- Pushed back to Kurupt's album
Not pushed back. Kurupt didn’t record this until he came back. He wasn’t working with Death Row during the UTEOT recordings. Hell, it’s pretty clear by Kurupt’s lyrics on the song that this was recorded much later as he’s throwing shade at artists being inserted into Pac’s music who never knew him and this really hadn’t become a trend until later on. UTEOT predates the addition of Nas, Ja Rule, Eminem, 50 Cent, and others being added to Pac recordings. Kurupt, while not publicly beefing with Suge, did not have a working relationship with Death Row from 1999 until he went back in 2002.
Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him. Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)
DX: You mention invisibility. You appeared in two major videos. I remember seeing you on MTV and BET. What did it mean for you to have the 2Pac “All About U” video, and then “Top Dogg Cindafella”?
YGD Top Dogg: [Laughs] Back then, if I was inside [with my friends], and the videos would come on, I’d go outside. I don’t wanna see the videos, I’m humble. If the video comes on, I’ll disappear. [Laughs] I never really let that shit go to my head.
(Source: http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.16748/title.ygd-top-dogg-recalls-controversies-while-at-death-row-records-new-album)
That Crooked I promotion tour that you are referring to, I remember that, he played a completely different version of "So Damn Hood" that sounded way better on Hot97 -- but that was it, he had a ground game where Suge flew around with him and they made a nice couple of appearances on BET with Tha Row Hitterz -- Crook was there with Suge, Kurupt, NINA -- My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him than playing a track once or twice on Hot97 or putting a Billboard up of Crook taking a shit! Crook had more of a ground game than Top Dogg (because Suge was locked down), but he never got the spins Top Dogg did on MTV and BET other than what Irv Gotti got him (and BET Uncut at 2 AM EST played "Still Tha Row", but the video for some reason was blackballed and considered 'too explicit' for daytime tv so he got screwed -- they also changed the beat on the video and it sounded off)
There's an interview, I should see if I can find it, I think it's Danny Boy, talking about how he believes Suge put him in stalemate -- and Danny B said that's what Suge does to his artists, he tells them to keep recording, and if he's pissed off at them low-key for something, he won't act like it, but he'll just blackball all your work (i.e. SNOOP getting blackballed around the time of Smokefest and several other examples) -- There was no payola to the radio stations because Death Row didn't have the distributor (D3 couldn't do much more than press the CDs and send them out, but they couldn't get these songs on radio playlists outside of California)
Tha Realest got a push from Suge too -- Realest was featured on 6 tracks on "The Chronic 2000", which that album sold 5 times TGFR & Dysfunktional Family OST
Danny Boy talked about how Suge would blackball his artists by telling them how great the albums were, how he loved the material, and he would tell them "it's coming soon" and it would never drop -- he would just string along his artists -- Many believe this is what happened to Crooked I -- Danny Boy pointed out that he may have been jealous that he recorded with Irv Gotti and Irv offered him more than what Suge could offer him, and Suge took offense to that (remember Crook was offered deals by Aftermath and Bad Boy at the time) -- the album had a release date set and after it was delayed, then it was supposed to be "Hood Star", then it kept getting delayed, delayed, delayed, and Crooked said, he was pissed his album didn't drop over and over again, and the same shit happened to Tha Realest, he said he had 150 songs recorded, and he kept visiting Suge in prison 3 times a week, and he told him how great the material is and that the album is coming soon, and he never dropped the shit.
Danny Boy said he would trap the artists in longterm deals so they couldn't sign another deal and he wouldn't let them off, they would have to go through a long ride in the court system to have the ability to record elsewhere (i.e. Nate Dogg, Tha Realest) -- Danny Boy said Suge would string his artists along in a stalemate purgatory where they were locked in and completely lost their buzz with nothing coming out!
Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him
Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine -- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")
Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!
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Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him. Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)
DX: You mention invisibility. You appeared in two major videos. I remember seeing you on MTV and BET. What did it mean for you to have the 2Pac “All About U” video, and then “Top Dogg Cindafella”?
YGD Top Dogg: [Laughs] Back then, if I was inside [with my friends], and the videos would come on, I’d go outside. I don’t wanna see the videos, I’m humble. If the video comes on, I’ll disappear. [Laughs] I never really let that shit go to my head.
(Source: http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.16748/title.ygd-top-dogg-recalls-controversies-while-at-death-row-records-new-album)
That Crooked I promotion tour that you are referring to, I remember that, he played a completely different version of "So Damn Hood" that sounded way better on Hot97 -- but that was it, he had a ground game where Suge flew around with him and they made a nice couple of appearances on BET with Tha Row Hitterz -- Crook was there with Suge, Kurupt, NINA -- My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him than playing a track once or twice on Hot97 or putting a Billboard up of Crook taking a shit! Crook had more of a ground game than Top Dogg (because Suge was locked down), but he never got the spins Top Dogg did on MTV and BET other than what Irv Gotti got him (and BET Uncut at 2 AM EST played "Still Tha Row", but the video for some reason was blackballed and considered 'too explicit' for daytime tv so he got screwed -- they also changed the beat on the video and it sounded off)
There's an interview, I should see if I can find it, I think it's Danny Boy, talking about how he believes Suge put him in stalemate -- and Danny B said that's what Suge does to his artists, he tells them to keep recording, and if he's pissed off at them low-key for something, he won't act like it, but he'll just blackball all your work (i.e. SNOOP getting blackballed around the time of Smokefest and several other examples) -- There was no payola to the radio stations because Death Row didn't have the distributor (D3 couldn't do much more than press the CDs and send them out, but they couldn't get these songs on radio playlists outside of California)
Tha Realest got a push from Suge too -- Realest was featured on 6 tracks on "The Chronic 2000", which that album sold 5 times TGFR & Dysfunktional Family OST
Danny Boy talked about how Suge would blackball his artists by telling them how great the albums were, how he loved the material, and he would tell them "it's coming soon" and it would never drop -- he would just string along his artists -- Many believe this is what happened to Crooked I -- Danny Boy pointed out that he may have been jealous that he recorded with Irv Gotti and Irv offered him more than what Suge could offer him, and Suge took offense to that (remember Crook was offered deals by Aftermath and Bad Boy at the time) -- the album had a release date set and after it was delayed, then it was supposed to be "Hood Star", then it kept getting delayed, delayed, delayed, and Crooked said, he was pissed his album didn't drop over and over again, and the same shit happened to Tha Realest, he said he had 150 songs recorded, and he kept visiting Suge in prison 3 times a week, and he told him how great the material is and that the album is coming soon, and he never dropped the shit.
Danny Boy said he would trap the artists in longterm deals so they couldn't sign another deal and he wouldn't let them off, they would have to go through a long ride in the court system to have the ability to record elsewhere (i.e. Nate Dogg, Tha Realest) -- Danny Boy said Suge would string his artists along in a stalemate purgatory where they were locked in and completely lost their buzz with nothing coming out!
Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him
Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine -- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")
Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!
Funny you cited that interview because the very next question asks about an album
DX: You were, if I’m not mistaken, the last Death Row artist to have his own video, of the new guys. Years later, you have Renegade out. But on the real, how close did you ever get to releasing an album at Death Row?
YGD Top Dogg: Actually, we never really got to an album. I’m so grateful and thankful for that, ’cause I’m able to [release] my own album [now]. I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development. I just blessed to be on songs so big that motherfuckas still play ’em on the radio, and still remember ’em.
DX: What happened next? What progressed?
YGD Top Dogg: I was ready, but I wasn’t developed. I’d just been rappin’ for a year or two, and I was on a [very well-known] label. We made it. [Laughs] I just took that and ran with it. I just stuck to the script, man, and my name motivated me. I know it sounds weird, but “Top Dogg” was powerful in some ways.
Top Dogg wasn't a "go-to" guy. You're having delusions of grandour if you think otherwise.
More falsehoods:
1) Crooked I never had a release date in stone, and the album that would have been released was "Say Hi To The Bad Guy", not "Hootstar"
2) Nate Dogg didn't have a long trip through the court systems. He actually won against Death Row and got the rights to his DR album, and was able to drop an album a year or so after leaving the label
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lol this thread is pure comedy to think this delusional moron thinks tha fakest and top none were stars is hilarious :laugh:
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Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him.
In what interviews? Do you have a link?
Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)
The interviewer says he remembers seeing his videos. Nothing about major spins. I didn’t have BET back then but MTV sure as hell wasn’t playing those videos regularly. Even the video in the link is from some obscure video network.
Also, since you brought up the link, here’s a quote that contradicts your own statements.
"I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development."
These are the man's own words. You said he was the big artist in 1998 but neither of those videos came out until, at least, 1999. So I'll ask the question again - Why would he have been on MTV in 1998 for anything?
My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him.
And my point is you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. A feature on a superstar rapper’s album is nowhere near what you make it out to be. Plenty of artists end up featuring on major artist’s albums, that doesn’t immediately make them stars, at best, that helps generate a buzz.
Ja Rule did songs and videos with lots of artists. Cadillac Tah was featured on “Ain’t It Funny”, an actual #1 hit record with an actual mainstream video with Ja Rule and Jennifer Lopez. More exposure than Crooked I and during a stronger selling point in Ja’s career. What happened? Nothing. People remember the song for Ja Rule and J-Lo like they remember D-12 songs for Eminem and don’t remember which Outlaw is featured on what Pac song. It’s not a diss. MC Ren is featured in all of the NWA tracks and videos but he’s not put out there like Cube is. Crooked I was never “pushed” by Irv Gotti. He did a few songs with Murder, Inc. and it was when Ja was on the way down. Irv actually “pulled” Vita, Charlie Baltimore, Cadillac Tah, and Black Child on numerous projects. They didn’t become stars and they were constantly linked to Ja in videos, albums, singles, etc. One guest verse isn’t going to make you a star. Quit believing your own nonsense.
Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him
Nope. Top Dogg never got a real push. He and Realest were looked as the artists during Chronic 2000 but no real money or promotion was ever put into them. Death Row put out an official home video full of music videos in 1999 and the only time either one of them is featured is in a low-budget porno video for Daz’s song that has Tha Realest in it. They weren’t getting magazine covers or big interviews. When Tha Realest got shot in the studio in 1999 during the shooting that killed Kurupt’s bodyguard, The Source called him “Realness”.
And enough with this “heavy feature” talk. Comparing Crook at that point to Dre is absurd. Dre was a superstar producer by the time he got on and the pushing of Snoop was far more substantial. They didn’t just give him a forty-second verse at the end of a video. They put him on equal billing and had him trade bars with Dre on Deep Cover and G-Thang. He was constantly put next to him. The people you’re mentioning were more like Bushwick Bill. One song on The Chronic.
Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine.
Yes, that project was “Until The End of Time”. We already went over this before.
-- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")
And here is where you lose me. Where did Afeni ever say any of this?
Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!
Try to stay with me so this can hopefully, be the last time we go through this. I didn’t say Death Row didn’t work on the album or list it on their website. I said they took their name off the project. It was intended as a Death Row/Amaru release but at some point, both labels removed their names from the project. They both still include it as a release in their discography but they withdrew their logos and were not credited at the time of the release.
It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website.
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It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website.
[/quote]
and we all know the ONLY reason top none got any exposure was the 2PAC song and video all about you i don't know what parallel world this guy lives in but in our world top and fakest were never going to be stars
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Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him. Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)
DX: You mention invisibility. You appeared in two major videos. I remember seeing you on MTV and BET. What did it mean for you to have the 2Pac “All About U” video, and then “Top Dogg Cindafella”?
YGD Top Dogg: [Laughs] Back then, if I was inside [with my friends], and the videos would come on, I’d go outside. I don’t wanna see the videos, I’m humble. If the video comes on, I’ll disappear. [Laughs] I never really let that shit go to my head.
(Source: http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.16748/title.ygd-top-dogg-recalls-controversies-while-at-death-row-records-new-album)
That Crooked I promotion tour that you are referring to, I remember that, he played a completely different version of "So Damn Hood" that sounded way better on Hot97 -- but that was it, he had a ground game where Suge flew around with him and they made a nice couple of appearances on BET with Tha Row Hitterz -- Crook was there with Suge, Kurupt, NINA -- My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him than playing a track once or twice on Hot97 or putting a Billboard up of Crook taking a shit! Crook had more of a ground game than Top Dogg (because Suge was locked down), but he never got the spins Top Dogg did on MTV and BET other than what Irv Gotti got him (and BET Uncut at 2 AM EST played "Still Tha Row", but the video for some reason was blackballed and considered 'too explicit' for daytime tv so he got screwed -- they also changed the beat on the video and it sounded off)
There's an interview, I should see if I can find it, I think it's Danny Boy, talking about how he believes Suge put him in stalemate -- and Danny B said that's what Suge does to his artists, he tells them to keep recording, and if he's pissed off at them low-key for something, he won't act like it, but he'll just blackball all your work (i.e. SNOOP getting blackballed around the time of Smokefest and several other examples) -- There was no payola to the radio stations because Death Row didn't have the distributor (D3 couldn't do much more than press the CDs and send them out, but they couldn't get these songs on radio playlists outside of California)
Tha Realest got a push from Suge too -- Realest was featured on 6 tracks on "The Chronic 2000", which that album sold 5 times TGFR & Dysfunktional Family OST
Danny Boy talked about how Suge would blackball his artists by telling them how great the albums were, how he loved the material, and he would tell them "it's coming soon" and it would never drop -- he would just string along his artists -- Many believe this is what happened to Crooked I -- Danny Boy pointed out that he may have been jealous that he recorded with Irv Gotti and Irv offered him more than what Suge could offer him, and Suge took offense to that (remember Crook was offered deals by Aftermath and Bad Boy at the time) -- the album had a release date set and after it was delayed, then it was supposed to be "Hood Star", then it kept getting delayed, delayed, delayed, and Crooked said, he was pissed his album didn't drop over and over again, and the same shit happened to Tha Realest, he said he had 150 songs recorded, and he kept visiting Suge in prison 3 times a week, and he told him how great the material is and that the album is coming soon, and he never dropped the shit.
Danny Boy said he would trap the artists in longterm deals so they couldn't sign another deal and he wouldn't let them off, they would have to go through a long ride in the court system to have the ability to record elsewhere (i.e. Nate Dogg, Tha Realest) -- Danny Boy said Suge would string his artists along in a stalemate purgatory where they were locked in and completely lost their buzz with nothing coming out!
Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him
Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine -- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")
Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!
Funny you cited that interview because the very next question asks about an album
DX: You were, if I’m not mistaken, the last Death Row artist to have his own video, of the new guys. Years later, you have Renegade out. But on the real, how close did you ever get to releasing an album at Death Row?
YGD Top Dogg: Actually, we never really got to an album. I’m so grateful and thankful for that, ’cause I’m able to [release] my own album [now]. I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development. I just blessed to be on songs so big that motherfuckas still play ’em on the radio, and still remember ’em.
DX: What happened next? What progressed?
YGD Top Dogg: I was ready, but I wasn’t developed. I’d just been rappin’ for a year or two, and I was on a [very well-known] label. We made it. [Laughs] I just took that and ran with it. I just stuck to the script, man, and my name motivated me. I know it sounds weird, but “Top Dogg” was powerful in some ways.
Top Dogg wasn't a "go-to" guy. You're having delusions of grandour if you think otherwise.
More falsehoods:
1) Crooked I never had a release date in stone, and the album that would have been released was "Say Hi To The Bad Guy", not "Hootstar"
2) Nate Dogg didn't have a long trip through the court systems. He actually won against Death Row and got the rights to his DR album, and was able to drop an album a year or so after leaving the label
1) Duh, I know it was "Say Hi To Tha Bad Guy" - If you read my post, they pushed it back and renamed it to "Hoodstar" after multiple delays -- Yes Crooked I had a release date of September 10, 2002, go look it up!
2) Nate Dogg had to do a shared publishing deal where if Suge wanted to release it he could -- Many of Suge's artists have been tied up for years in the court system -- even on the latest Death Row bankruptcy proceedings, Suge sued the new owners of Death Row for $146 million so none of the artists could get anything (smart move)
Go Listen to the Danny Boy Interviews and Educate yourself
Top Dogg:
YES, Top Dogg was the Top Dogg for the label -- he had an album called "Every Dogg has Its Day" -- This album title was posted on the WEBSITE and I have the album (and so do many other people) -- he said that because he's trying to promote his new work, and doesn't want people salivating over the Death Row classics, because he knows that's what his career will likely be known for (maybe he can prove me wrong?)
Now back to your claim -- Your totally wrong -- Suge put him on MULTIPLE TRACKS with Dr. Dre -- If you had NO PLANS for an artist, would you have him on multiple Dr. Dre tracks?! I mean there's a lot! Some of them that leaked -- "the Hoe Hopper, Die MF Die, the Columbine One that's rare as f... just think for a second -- you're in charge of the record label --> Put your business cap on, are you going to have your multi-million dollar producer's beats be put on some guy that you only have plans to be a scrub? Hell no, that would be a terrible investment -- He put him on Dre Beats to promote the shit out of him! How many people can say they've been on Dr. Dre beats and on Death Row Records -- Top Dogg was ONE OF A VERY FEW SELECT GROUP -- Dre doesn't even have that much shit released post NWA!
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lol this thread is pure comedy to think this delusional moron thinks tha fakest and top none were stars is hilarious :laugh:
Are you not comprehending -- here let me give you a dunce cap --> IF you were running a business, would you put a multi-platinum legend producer's beats with an artist you wanted to blow up?! Of course you would -- Suge put Dre beats allover Top Dogg's music -- he's one in a million to even get that treatment
That's like winning the lottery, you come into the rap game, and you're barely known, then all of a sudden you're on Dr. Dre beats and allover a 2Pac single that's on MTV and BET and played in the clubs, then you got your own single in rotation!
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It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website.
and we all know the ONLY reason top none got any exposure was the 2PAC song and video all about you i don't know what parallel world this guy lives in but in our world top and fakest were never going to be stars
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How many people do you know that have had videos in rotation on MTV and BET?? Count them on your toe!
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Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him.
In what interviews? Do you have a link?
Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)
The interviewer says he remembers seeing his videos. Nothing about major spins. I didn’t have BET back then but MTV sure as hell wasn’t playing those videos regularly. Even the video in the link is from some obscure video network.
Also, since you brought up the link, here’s a quote that contradicts your own statements.
"I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development."
These are the man's own words. You said he was the big artist in 1998 but neither of those videos came out until, at least, 1999. So I'll ask the question again - Why would he have been on MTV in 1998 for anything?
My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him.
And my point is you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. A feature on a superstar rapper’s album is nowhere near what you make it out to be. Plenty of artists end up featuring on major artist’s albums, that doesn’t immediately make them stars, at best, that helps generate a buzz.
Ja Rule did songs and videos with lots of artists. Cadillac Tah was featured on “Ain’t It Funny”, an actual #1 hit record with an actual mainstream video with Ja Rule and Jennifer Lopez. More exposure than Crooked I and during a stronger selling point in Ja’s career. What happened? Nothing. People remember the song for Ja Rule and J-Lo like they remember D-12 songs for Eminem and don’t remember which Outlaw is featured on what Pac song. It’s not a diss. MC Ren is featured in all of the NWA tracks and videos but he’s not put out there like Cube is. Crooked I was never “pushed” by Irv Gotti. He did a few songs with Murder, Inc. and it was when Ja was on the way down. Irv actually “pulled” Vita, Charlie Baltimore, Cadillac Tah, and Black Child on numerous projects. They didn’t become stars and they were constantly linked to Ja in videos, albums, singles, etc. One guest verse isn’t going to make you a star. Quit believing your own nonsense.
Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him
Nope. Top Dogg never got a real push. He and Realest were looked as the artists during Chronic 2000 but no real money or promotion was ever put into them. Death Row put out an official home video full of music videos in 1999 and the only time either one of them is featured is in a low-budget porno video for Daz’s song that has Tha Realest in it. They weren’t getting magazine covers or big interviews. When Tha Realest got shot in the studio in 1999 during the shooting that killed Kurupt’s bodyguard, The Source called him “Realness”.
And enough with this “heavy feature” talk. Comparing Crook at that point to Dre is absurd. Dre was a superstar producer by the time he got on and the pushing of Snoop was far more substantial. They didn’t just give him a forty-second verse at the end of a video. They put him on equal billing and had him trade bars with Dre on Deep Cover and G-Thang. He was constantly put next to him. The people you’re mentioning were more like Bushwick Bill. One song on The Chronic.
Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine.
Yes, that project was “Until The End of Time”. We already went over this before.
-- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")
And here is where you lose me. Where did Afeni ever say any of this?
Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!
Try to stay with me so this can hopefully, be the last time we go through this. I didn’t say Death Row didn’t work on the album or list it on their website. I said they took their name off the project. It was intended as a Death Row/Amaru release but at some point, both labels removed their names from the project. They both still include it as a release in their discography but they withdrew their logos and were not credited at the time of the release.
It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website.
Lots of stuff here -- First, an artists career being launched off a featured appearance has been common in hip hop throughout time -- that's how Snoop blew up off "Nuthin But A G Thang" and "Dre Day" -- Ask Young Buck, who got his break during a 50 Cent feature (After he was featured on "Get Rich or Die Tryin" everyone was like you gotta sign this cat!), too many examples to name -- but featuring on a superstars track is one of the biggest ways artists break in and get their name out there for recognition and label signing (you know this)
Let me ask you this -- this is totally your opinion, if you're running a business, and you have Dr. Dre instrumentals, extremely rare for anyone to even have them, and in his prime at that, would you put them on an artist who you thought was some bum? Would you go give Dr. Dre's instrumentals to Spider Loc or CPO Boss Hog? Suge had HUGE plans for YGD Top Dogg, starting with his "Goin Back To Cali" diss record, aimed directly at Bad Boy, in the midst of an ugly beef! Top Dogg was actually signed when Snoop was still contractually obligated to the label! The only reason why people make the comparison is because he has the "Dogg" in his name and the timing of it all, coupled with the "Top Dogg Cindafella" vs. "Snoopafella" thing (and Snoop named his album after Suge's artist as a middle finger to say that he's the Top Dogg, not his artist) that went down during the No Limit beef -- Top Dogg said after all the bullshit, he actually met him and they were cool with each other while all this was going on! Think about the time line ---> 1) Suge releases "Goin Back To Cali" to create the buzz -- 2) The Magazine mentions & interview mentions by Suge along with Interscope pushing him before they pulled the rug 3) The "All About U" feature played on MTV/BET 4) Top Dogg records a track called "Come My Way" for the 2Pac + Outlawz album that gets pulled 5) The Top Dogg Cindafella video and doubling up on Snoop beef putting it up against Snoop "Cindafella" to get the media to talk about it...the last event is to drop the album -- the exact SAME thing happened to Crooked I -- he did all the leg work up front, but pulled the rug out underneath the album (Crooked I had the released date even!)
If there's a way we can search "The Source" and "VIBE" archives, you bet there were mentions of Top Dogg by Suge's camp
Top Dogg -- SOURCE = https://www.revolvy.com/topic/YGD%20Tha%20Top%20Dogg&item_type=topic
"In 1998, Death Row Records CEO Suge Knight planned to launch many new rappers to come for the second generation of Death Row Records. Although he was incarcerated, he pushed rapper Top Dogg (also known as YGD) as his first new face making his television debut appearance in the video "All About U" on the 2Pac "Greatest Hits" album replacing Snoop Dogg. Top Dogg had generated a buzz from a hidden track on the "Gang Related" titled "Goin Back To Cali" aimed toward Biggie Smalls & Puff Daddy.[3] The video, "All About U," received heavy play and Suge followed in 1999 with Suge Knight Represents: Chronic 2000 album to introduce a brand new roster headed by Top Dogg, Tha Realest, and Soopafly, with Daz Dillinger as the veteran lead-producer.
In 2000, the music video for Top Dogg's "Cindafella"[4] track received minor airplay with an innovative concept produced by TC as many earlier videos and directed by K.C. Amos, and his album "Every Dog Has His Day"[5] was shelved as his contract expired and he was not renewed."
Here's one of the tracklists for Top Dogg's album "Every Dogg Has Its Day":
01 Intro
02 Ghetto Fairytales
03 Envy
04 Cant Fuck With Dogg
05 Me and My Boyz
06 Going Back To Cali (Notorious BIG Diss)
07 If U Can´t Take The Heat Ft. Eastwood
08 Cindafella
09 B Thankful
10 I Gets No Sleep
11 Cry 4 Me Die 4 U
12 We Don't Love 'Em
13 Death Row Raw & Uncut Ft. Eastwood
Still I Rise -- Here is the info on the Lawsuit filed by The Outlawz: The Outlawz have filed a lawsuit against Death Row, heres the story from CDNOW.com:
"The rap group the Outlawz, best known for their work with the late Tupac Shakur, have filed a $4.5 million lawsuit against Death Row Records, the label's incarcerated chief Marion "Suge" Knight, its distributor Interscope Records, Suge Knight Films, and Suge Publishing. The suit, filed Tuesday (April 4) in Los Angeles Superior Court, cites 11 complaints, including breach of contract, unfair business practices, intentional interference with prospective economic advantages, racketeering, and others. The Outlawz, which signed with Death Row in March 1997 and delivered their first master recordings in January 1998, claim that, "Death Row refused to release said master recordings in retaliation for the Outlawz' refusal to enter into a separate agreement granting to Suge Publishing a publishing interest in the compositions contained in the masters delivered to Death Row."
In July 1998, the group claims that because the label didn't release the recording or give them notice of extending the term of their recording contract that their contract expired on approximately May 6, 1999. The label then released 2Pac + Outlawz' Still I Rise Dec. 21, 1999, while the Outlawz maintain that they were no longer signed to the label. The album debuted at No. 7 on The Billboard 200.
"Beginning prior to the release of Still I Rise and continuing to the present," reads the suit, in part, "Death Row and Knight have falsely asserted to third parties, including representatives of Interscope, that the Outlawz remain obligated under the Recording Agreement; and Death Row and Knight have otherwise interfered with a) the Outlawz' career in the entertainment industry and the value of their trademark, b) the marketing and exploitation of the Still I Rise record, and c) the agreement between the Outlawz and the Estate of Tupac Shakur and Interscope."
The group, which began writing songs with Shakur in 1994 until the rapper's death in 1996, claims that Death Row and Knight had instructed Interscope not to include the Outlawz (formerly known as Dramacydal and Outlaw Immortalz) in any promotion for the album, including videos, radio promotion, street marketing, and press; and that they included their performance in the video Death Row Uncut for Knight Films without any license, authorization, or compensation.
Attorneys for the group sent a cease and desist letter to Death Row and Interscope on Feb. 23 of this year asking them to stop asserting that the group is still signed to the label; to cease interfering with the marketing of Still I Rise; to cease selling the Death Row Uncut video unless the appropriate licenses and releases are issued; and to give the group an accounting of their work with Shakur on the 1997's Gang Related and 1996's Supercop soundtracks, and the aforementioned video, released in 1999.
The Outlawz are credited on Gang Related for three tracks with 2Pac ("Staring Through My Rearview," "Made Niggaz," and "Lost Souls") and one with Daz Dillinger ("What's Ya Fantasy?"). They're credited on Supercop again for "Made Niggaz" with 2Pac.
The full complaint is for unfair business practices, violation of the Lanham Act, intentional interference with prospective economic advantage, violation of civil code 3344, quantum meruit, unjust enrichment/implied contract, negligence, declaratory relief, accounting, breach of contract, and violations the Federal RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization) Statute."
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It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website.
and we all know the ONLY reason top none got any exposure was the 2PAC song and video all about you i don't know what parallel world this guy lives in but in our world top and fakest were never going to be stars
How many people do you know that have had videos in rotation on MTV and BET?? Count them on your toe!
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again the only reason all about u had radio and video play on mtv and bet was because it was a pac track biter on it or not
those 2 wannabes were always under "developmental" till they left suge was never going to do anything with those bootleg artist and the people wouldn't ever accept these clones after how much backlash and disappointing numbers c2k did those clones never got a push
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1) Duh, I know it was "Say Hi To Tha Bad Guy" - If you read my post, they pushed it back and renamed it to "Hoodstar" after multiple delays -- Yes Crooked I had a release date of September 10, 2002, go look it up!
2) Nate Dogg had to do a shared publishing deal where if Suge wanted to release it he could -- Many of Suge's artists have been tied up for years in the court system -- even on the latest Death Row bankruptcy proceedings, Suge sued the new owners of Death Row for $146 million so none of the artists could get anything (smart move)
Go Listen to the Danny Boy Interviews and Educate yourself
Top Dogg:
YES, Top Dogg was the Top Dogg for the label -- he had an album called "Every Dogg has Its Day" -- This album title was posted on the WEBSITE and I have the album (and so do many other people) -- he said that because he's trying to promote his new work, and doesn't want people salivating over the Death Row classics, because he knows that's what his career will likely be known for (maybe he can prove me wrong?)
Now back to your claim -- Your totally wrong -- Suge put him on MULTIPLE TRACKS with Dr. Dre -- If you had NO PLANS for an artist, would you have him on multiple Dr. Dre tracks?! I mean there's a lot! Some of them that leaked -- "the Hoe Hopper, Die MF Die, the Columbine One that's rare as f... just think for a second -- you're in charge of the record label --> Put your business cap on, are you going to have your multi-million dollar producer's beats be put on some guy that you only have plans to be a scrub? Hell no, that would be a terrible investment -- He put him on Dre Beats to promote the shit out of him! How many people can say they've been on Dr. Dre beats and on Death Row Records -- Top Dogg was ONE OF A VERY FEW SELECT GROUP -- Dre doesn't even have that much shit released post NWA!
Since reading seems to be a little difficult for you, let me repost what Top Dogg specifically said about an album on Death Row from the interview you keep bringing up.
DX: You were, if I’m not mistaken, the last Death Row artist to have his own video, of the new guys. Years later, you have Renegade out. But on the real, how close did you ever get to releasing an album at Death Row?
YGD Top Dogg: Actually, we never really got to an album. I’m so grateful and thankful for that, ’cause I’m able to [release] my own album [now]. I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development. I just blessed to be on songs so big that motherfuckas still play ’em on the radio, and still remember ’em.
DX: What happened next? What progressed?
YGD Top Dogg: I was ready, but I wasn’t developed. I’d just been rappin’ for a year or two, and I was on a [very well-known] label. We made it. [Laughs] I just took that and ran with it. I just stuck to the script, man, and my name motivated me. I know it sounds weird, but “Top Dogg” was powerful in some ways.
The album you're referring to was a Demo of tracks, not an album.
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Lots of stuff here -- First, an artists career being launched off a featured appearance has been common in hip hop throughout time -- that's how Snoop blew up off "Nuthin But A G Thang" and "Dre Day" -- Ask Young Buck, who got his break during a 50 Cent feature (After he was featured on "Get Rich or Die Tryin" everyone was like you gotta sign this cat!), too many examples to name -- but featuring on a superstars track is one of the biggest ways artists break in and get their name out there for recognition and label signing (you know this)
Your deductions on how Snoop and Young Buck got there are missing a lot of factors that go way beyond just their featured appearances.
Snoop was not simply a guest artist on a song, he was a featured artist on an album that was built to feature him. There is a clear distinction in how he was promoted from the very beginning. He was in the video for Deep Cover. He is on the intro for The Chronic. He’s on nearly all the big songs. He’s on songs that don’t even have Dre on them. The video for “G Thang” is Dre going up to his house and walking into his room, introducing him as his partner. He is standing next to him through out the video. Once they broke through the first layer of the story which was Dre leaving Ruthless for his own solo career, they made the second layer about Snoop so he could be part of the brand and they could build him off Dre’s momentum. He was on stage with Dre for nearly every public appearance. He was next to him on the magazine covers. That is an effective marketing campaign on how to break a new artist.
Now, for Young Buck. He had that one guest verse on Get Rich. That didn’t launch him. That got him some buzz. The buzz lead to him being signed. His first project with the label was the G-Unit group album. This was put out off the strength of how hot 50 was. 50’s momentum sold the album. Buck was on about a good dozen songs and featured in all the videos. He toured with 50, he did media appearances with 50, he was on magazine covers next to 50, his name became associated with the G-Unit brand, they put him on mixtapes and gave him his own mixtapes.
With both Snoop and Buck, the initial momentum of their association was still utilized when they took the training wheels off. Dr. Dre and 50 Cent are both respectively featured all over their first videos so the consumer can feel the association. This is calculated. This is how building a brand works.
Now, we’ll go to Top Dogg. His first song for the label isn’t even included on most releases. It isn’t pushed. He’s not on any of the new artist solo releases after that. His video debut comes at the tail end of a Tupac video that comes out much later. Since Tupac is dead, they never share any screen time, and good portions of his forty-second verse are dedicated to showing shots of Tupac instead. It’s him alone in a car, rapping. The actors at the beginning of the video get more uninterrupted screen time. This is very clearly not a video about Top Dogg or well-marketed introduction to him as an artist.
And your Interscope push talk is bullshit too. They were ending their deal with Death Row. You have yet to present any evidence of this push beyond your own confused concept of what you think a push is. Priority was going to distribute the catalog.
Let me ask you this -- this is totally your opinion, if you're running a business, and you have Dr. Dre instrumentals, extremely rare for anyone to even have them, and in his prime at that, would you put them on an artist who you thought was some bum?
This is clearly you presenting a “Strawman argument”. I never said Suge thought Top Dogg was a bum. I said neither Interscope nor Death Row was pushing him as heavily as you claim. But, regardless, if generally speaking, I own a label and have a brand new roster of artists that haven’t been established, I would look into finding ways to utilize the aspects that people love (in this case, the old artists) and use them to sell the unfamiliar. And it wasn’t just Top Dogg. They were planning to put Realest and Doobie on songs with Dre too. They put Swoop G on a song with Snoop. They put Crooked, SKG, and The Relativez on songs with Dogg Pound. They added J. Valentine to 2Pac’s song on TG4R.
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1) Duh, I know it was "Say Hi To Tha Bad Guy" - If you read my post, they pushed it back and renamed it to "Hoodstar" after multiple delays -- Yes Crooked I had a release date of September 10, 2002, go look it up!
2) Nate Dogg had to do a shared publishing deal where if Suge wanted to release it he could -- Many of Suge's artists have been tied up for years in the court system -- even on the latest Death Row bankruptcy proceedings, Suge sued the new owners of Death Row for $146 million so none of the artists could get anything (smart move)
Go Listen to the Danny Boy Interviews and Educate yourself
Top Dogg:
YES, Top Dogg was the Top Dogg for the label -- he had an album called "Every Dogg has Its Day" -- This album title was posted on the WEBSITE and I have the album (and so do many other people) -- he said that because he's trying to promote his new work, and doesn't want people salivating over the Death Row classics, because he knows that's what his career will likely be known for (maybe he can prove me wrong?)
Now back to your claim -- Your totally wrong -- Suge put him on MULTIPLE TRACKS with Dr. Dre -- If you had NO PLANS for an artist, would you have him on multiple Dr. Dre tracks?! I mean there's a lot! Some of them that leaked -- "the Hoe Hopper, Die MF Die, the Columbine One that's rare as f... just think for a second -- you're in charge of the record label --> Put your business cap on, are you going to have your multi-million dollar producer's beats be put on some guy that you only have plans to be a scrub? Hell no, that would be a terrible investment -- He put him on Dre Beats to promote the shit out of him! How many people can say they've been on Dr. Dre beats and on Death Row Records -- Top Dogg was ONE OF A VERY FEW SELECT GROUP -- Dre doesn't even have that much shit released post NWA!
Since reading seems to be a little difficult for you, let me repost what Top Dogg specifically said about an album on Death Row from the interview you keep bringing up.
DX: You were, if I’m not mistaken, the last Death Row artist to have his own video, of the new guys. Years later, you have Renegade out. But on the real, how close did you ever get to releasing an album at Death Row?
YGD Top Dogg: Actually, we never really got to an album. I’m so grateful and thankful for that, ’cause I’m able to [release] my own album [now]. I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development. I just blessed to be on songs so big that motherfuckas still play ’em on the radio, and still remember ’em.
DX: What happened next? What progressed?
YGD Top Dogg: I was ready, but I wasn’t developed. I’d just been rappin’ for a year or two, and I was on a [very well-known] label. We made it. [Laughs] I just took that and ran with it. I just stuck to the script, man, and my name motivated me. I know it sounds weird, but “Top Dogg” was powerful in some ways.
The album you're referring to was a Demo of tracks, not an album.
He's not being honest -- "Every Dogg Has Its Day" was the album -- it was posted on the Death Row Records website as "Coming Soon" and it was posted on the Death Row fan sites -- He wants people to focus on his newer stuff, not his run "that could've been" on Death Row -- That's like playing for the LA Lakers and you have big plans to start and you never get off the bench -- They DID move him and Tha Realest to "Artist in Development" Section of the Website right before his contract expired and they didn't renew him (he was slated for TGFR and did tracks with unreleased 2Pac)
And I do agree with you that the numbers in Chronic 2000 didn't meet Suge's expectations (he expected at least 3 million, and it did GOLD)
Again, you provided no answer to my question -- WHY would SUGE KNIGHT put all the investment of UNRELEASED DR. DRE TRACKS & INSTRUMENTALS behind him and SPEND MASSIVE DOLLARS on music videos and recordings if he just had no plans for him?
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Again, you provided no answer to my question -- WHY would SUGE KNIGHT put all the investment of UNRELEASED DR. DRE TRACKS & INSTRUMENTALS behind him and SPEND MASSIVE DOLLARS on music videos and recordings if he just had no plans for him?
I don't recall anyone saying he had NO plans for him. What was said was he wasn't being pushed anywhere near how you claim he was. Putting him on unreleased tracks is not some massive investment. He did the same thing with Doobie, Swoop G, The Relativez, SKG, Crooked I, and many others.
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even if the top dogg album would've came out it would of flopped just like every other dr project since 2pac