West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Sccit on February 05, 2017, 07:17:07 PM
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JUS CAME BACK FROM DOWN 25...GAME HEADED INTO OVERTIME..PATRIOTS MORE THAN LIKELY GOT THIS
THIS CEMENT HIM AS THE GOAT?
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no but sadly I can't keep him outta my top 3 anymore :'(
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Yes it does! theres no more debate on who's is the greatest now. He's tied with no one for most Super Bowl wins. 7 appearances and 5 championships. nuff said. I hate to admit but he is now and this is coming from a niner fan who always held Montana in that regard. HE PASSED THE GOAT Montana and now Brady is. Respect!
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no but sadly I can't keep him outta my top 3 anymore :'(
Who's better?
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A few things here.
I think before, it was easy to look at Brady as NOT the GOAT because he may have won Super Bowls, but it was the way he won. Always on the last drive, but always with Adam Vinatier kicking or a failed comeback by the other team. It was never Brady marching down the field and actually winning the game like we saw with Montana. When you did see that in 2008, Eli threw that crazy pass that stuck to the guys helmet, which killed a great moment of Brady throwing to Moss on what I thought was the game winning touchdown.
Also, Brady's stats were always just okay. I had him many times in fantasy and that cost me, except the Moss years.
With all that said, this was Brady's moment. This was his signature win. This puts him in the top 3 at least all time. You can't argue anymore of him not being a top QB. He led that comeback in the end, threw the game winning touchdown in OT. He's now in the conversation of greatest QB's of all time. I think you have to look at different eras. What would happen if Montana played in today's era, would his career lasted as long as Brady's, how great would Otto Graham be with a modern offense. All of those questions are legit questions, and will be debated for years and years and years. But one question that will not be debated is if Brady belongs in this conversation. He's up there.
With all that said, I must reminder everyone... IT WAS A FUMBLE!
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A few things here.
I think before, it was easy to look at Brady as NOT the GOAT because he may have won Super Bowls, but it was the way he won. Always on the last drive, but always with Adam Vinatier kicking or a failed comeback by the other team. It was never Brady marching down the field and actually winning the game like we saw with Montana. When you did see that in 2008, Eli threw that crazy pass that stuck to the guys helmet, which killed a great moment of Brady throwing to Moss on what I thought was the game winning touchdown.
Also, Brady's stats were always just okay. I had him many times in fantasy and that cost me, except the Moss years.
With all that said, this was Brady's moment. This was his signature win. This puts him in the top 3 at least all time. You can't argue anymore of him not being a top QB. He led that comeback in the end, threw the game winning touchdown in OT. He's now in the conversation of greatest QB's of all time. I think you have to look at different eras. What would happen if Montana played in today's era, would his career lasted as long as Brady's, how great would Otto Graham be with a modern offense. All of those questions are legit questions, and will be debated for years and years and years. But one question that will not be debated is if Brady belongs in this conversation. He's up there.
With all that said, I must reminder everyone... IT WAS A FUMBLE!
What was a fumble?
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https://www.youtube.com/v/ixloKY7HoWs
Basically when Brady pump faked, he started to tuck the ball in as both hands were on the ball. Once that happened, it should have been ruled that he was carrying the ball. But the refs counted the "tucking" of the ball into his body as part of the forward motion therefore it was an incomplete pass. But it should have been ruled a fumble, which would have sealed the game. The reason for the fumble is once both hands are on the ball, he's not attempting to pass but rather carrying the ball like in a running play. If you are carrying the ball, and are stripped that's a fumble.
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https://www.youtube.com/v/ixloKY7HoWs
Basically when Brady pump faked, he started to tuck the ball in as both hands were on the ball. Once that happened, it should have been ruled that he was carrying the ball. But the refs counted the "tucking" of the ball into his body as part of the forward motion therefore it was an incomplete pass. But it should have been ruled a fumble, which would have sealed the game. The reason for the fumble is once both hands are on the ball, he's not attempting to pass but rather carrying the ball like in a running play. If you are carrying the ball, and are stripped that's a fumble.
That was terrible .. Raiders made it to the Super Bowl the next year tho, I remember that like it was yesterday
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https://www.youtube.com/v/ixloKY7HoWs
Basically when Brady pump faked, he started to tuck the ball in as both hands were on the ball. Once that happened, it should have been ruled that he was carrying the ball. But the refs counted the "tucking" of the ball into his body as part of the forward motion therefore it was an incomplete pass. But it should have been ruled a fumble, which would have sealed the game. The reason for the fumble is once both hands are on the ball, he's not attempting to pass but rather carrying the ball like in a running play. If you are carrying the ball, and are stripped that's a fumble.
That was terrible .. Raiders made it to the Super Bowl the next year tho, I remember that like it was yesterday
Yeah, but that year was the better team. The one that lost in 2001 was better than 2002. Plus after this game, that's when Al Davis traded Gruden as they couldn't get along. Now Gruden and Mark Davis, the current owners, are actually big buddies off the field. But Al had huge disagreements with Gruden and traded him. Some Raiders even commented after the game that Gruden yelled out, "they wouldn't ever let you guys win." Which they took that, one, Gruden already knew he was leaving the team, and two, Gruden also felt the NFL had something against the Raiders.
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Unquestioned.
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Undeniable.
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Forever.
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Meh. What I've learn is someone will come and everyone will claim them the GOAT in the future, then some sports hipsters will still argue for Brady, or Montana, or Otto Graham, as the greatest and say the game was more violent or it had better players that the future. It's a cycle.
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It's been 16 years of sheer dominance. The favorite to win next year too,
To put it in perspective for this site; imagine Kobe was still in the league, going strong, winning titles & me coming on here being like "meh, it's a cycle".
Colin Cowherd actually dropped a bomb statistic that wins the argument. He set it up by the obvious "If your QB has to throw 50 times a game, it tells you that you got no running game, your defense is letting up points, you're probably behind & the opposing defense knows you have to throw the ball...worst case scenario for an offense".
Given that, among the greatest names ever to have to throw the ball 50 times a game, it was like Marino & Brees are 5-5 & 5-11 & everyone else is well under .500. Brady is 18-9 in those games. That's pure separation from the pack.
You can be a guy like Shallow (waiting for him) & come on here & start talking about 40 years ago or "if Peyton Manning had the AFC pro bowl team in Indy..", but the reality is the man has been flawless for 16 years & do you really believe they won't at least go 11-5 next year & likely be in the AFC title game?
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It's been 16 years of sheer dominance. The favorite to win next year too,
To put it in perspective for this site; imagine Kobe was still in the league, going strong, winning titles & me coming on here being like "meh, it's a cycle".
Colin Cowherd actually dropped a bomb statistic that wins the argument. He set it up by the obvious "If your QB has to throw 50 times a game, it tells you that you got no running game, your defense is letting up points, you're probably behind & the opposing defense knows you have to throw the ball...worst case scenario for an offense".
Given that, among the greatest names ever to have to throw the ball 50 times a game, it was like Marino & Brees are 5-5 & 5-11 & everyone else is well under .500. Brady is 18-9 in those games. That's pure separation from the pack.
You can be a guy like Shallow (waiting for him) & come on here & start talking about 40 years ago or "if Peyton Manning had the AFC pro bowl team in Indy..", but the reality is the man has been flawless for 16 years & do you really believe they won't at least go 11-5 next year & likely be in the AFC title game?
I don't argue Kobe is the greatest player ever. That's Sccit. It's why he and I argue and he says I'm not a real Laker fan. Like right now, people saying LeBron could be better than Jordan. Do I think he's better than Jordan, that's laughable. But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron. But last shot, to win the game, give me Michael. In QB's, I actually like Brady's style of play. He's a smart QB, very few mistakes and he's basically the new, better Joe Montana. Similar styles, but newer players are stronger, faster and better trained than older players, it's just fact. But in 20, 30 years, we'll say the same thing about the next great QB. One day we'll finally get the best black QB ever, who takes the style of Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick, Cam Newton, and everyone will throw around the title GOAT to that person. It just is. I use to argue Magic as the GOAT ball player, but as I watch NBA players today, they do things Magic could never do. At the same time, they don't come off as "greater" than Magic to me. I'll end it like this, GOAT player, that argument is irrelevant. To me, it's who's the best of each era, and who came out with more rings and memorable moments. In that case, Brady for 15 years has dominated. He led the Patriot team to dominate in 2 decades. That's NEVER happened before. Usually when you win in one decade, you don't return for a while. The Browns of the 50's, Packers of the 60's, the Steelers of the 70's, the 49ers of the 80's, the Cowboys of the 90's. Then you have the Patriots of the 00's, which makes sense, but then the Patriots of the '10! That's AMAZING! No franchise has dominated like that. For that, you have to say they have ran a great franchise. And that's what will be remembered.
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But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
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U of M alumnus always comes through you bitches
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But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
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But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon. It's about what they can do with a basketball. I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario. Just my opinion.
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But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team. Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team. I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.
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But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up
I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.
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But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon. It's about what they can do with a basketball. I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario. Just my opinion.
But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up
I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.
Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.
But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team. Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team. I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.
The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.
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3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
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But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon. It's about what they can do with a basketball. I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario. Just my opinion.
But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up
I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.
Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.
But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team. Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team. I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.
The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.
LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFLom4GZy0
Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.
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Cmon guys that was the most obviously rugged game since Super bowl 3. Just watch the Falcons game plan after goinng up 28-3. They switch from rushing 3 and 4 to 4 and 5 and over play the routes. They were begging for big plays. And on offense it was ridiclous. Just run run run punt and play cover 2 and you can't lose.
To my basketball fans imagine a team is up 30 in the 4th and they start playing press d and shooting 30 ft 3s with 15 left on the shot clock.
Kyle Shanahan just got his reward too.
Just watch the fumble. 3rd and 1 and overload on the right side and Ryan in shotgun. Every receiver runs deep and Freeman let's the guy run past him and Ryan doesn't even look to his visibe side.
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Cmon guys that was the most obviously rugged game since Super bowl 3. Just watch the Falcons game plan after goinng up 28-3. They switch from rushing 3 and 4 to 4 and 5 and over play the routes. They were begging for big plays. And on offense it was ridiclous. Just run run run punt and play cover 2 and you can't lose.
To my basketball fans imagine a team is up 30 in the 4th and they start playing press d and shooting 30 ft 3s with 15 left on the shot clock.
Kyle Shanahan just got his reward too.
Just watch the fumble. 3rd and 1 and overload on the right side and Ryan in shotgun. Every receiver runs deep and Freeman let's the guy run past him and Ryan doesn't even look to his visibe side.
So u still got Peyton Manning as goat?
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Cmon guys that was the most obviously rugged game since Super bowl 3. Just watch the Falcons game plan after goinng up 28-3. They switch from rushing 3 and 4 to 4 and 5 and over play the routes. They were begging for big plays. And on offense it was ridiclous. Just run run run punt and play cover 2 and you can't lose.
To my basketball fans imagine a team is up 30 in the 4th and they start playing press d and shooting 30 ft 3s with 15 left on the shot clock.
Kyle Shanahan just got his reward too.
Just watch the fumble. 3rd and 1 and overload on the right side and Ryan in shotgun. Every receiver runs deep and Freeman let's the guy run past him and Ryan doesn't even look to his visibe side.
So u still got Peyton Manning as goat?
I always had Unitas. I just know Peyton is as much better than Brady as Kobe is better than Pippen.
And for the record, last year was fixed for Peyton too.
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Cmon guys that was the most obviously rugged game since Super bowl 3. Just watch the Falcons game plan after goinng up 28-3. They switch from rushing 3 and 4 to 4 and 5 and over play the routes. They were begging for big plays. And on offense it was ridiclous. Just run run run punt and play cover 2 and you can't lose.
To my basketball fans imagine a team is up 30 in the 4th and they start playing press d and shooting 30 ft 3s with 15 left on the shot clock.
Kyle Shanahan just got his reward too.
Just watch the fumble. 3rd and 1 and overload on the right side and Ryan in shotgun. Every receiver runs deep and Freeman let's the guy run past him and Ryan doesn't even look to his visibe side.
So u still got Peyton Manning as goat?
I always had Unitas. I just know Peyton is as much better than Brady as Kobe is better than Pippen.
And for the record, last year was fixed for Peyton too.
I don't see the Brady/Peyton Kobe/Pippen analogy
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3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon. It's about what they can do with a basketball. I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario. Just my opinion.
But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up
I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.
Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.
But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team. Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team. I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.
The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.
LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFLom4GZy0
Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.
I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.
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Cmon guys that was the most obviously rugged game since Super bowl 3. Just watch the Falcons game plan after goinng up 28-3. They switch from rushing 3 and 4 to 4 and 5 and over play the routes. They were begging for big plays. And on offense it was ridiclous. Just run run run punt and play cover 2 and you can't lose.
To my basketball fans imagine a team is up 30 in the 4th and they start playing press d and shooting 30 ft 3s with 15 left on the shot clock.
Kyle Shanahan just got his reward too.
Just watch the fumble. 3rd and 1 and overload on the right side and Ryan in shotgun. Every receiver runs deep and Freeman let's the guy run past him and Ryan doesn't even look to his visibe side.
So u still got Peyton Manning as goat?
I always had Unitas. I just know Peyton is as much better than Brady as Kobe is better than Pippen.
And for the record, last year was fixed for Peyton too.
I don't see the Brady/Peyton Kobe/Pippen analogy
I'm just comparing talent levels
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3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
And what's a 2000s Belicheck team with Peyton look like. Or the current Pat with Rodgers?
Of course I'm not joking with my rigged theories. I all but stopped watching Sports after two years ago. They don't loOK real anymore. And as I look back it was fishy back then.
Remember pro wrestling NWA was real once. Then George Hackenshmidt and Frank Gotch figured out they could make more money on best two out of three feuds. Soon promoters saw the fans were getting bored and started spicing up matches with over the top stuff. Coming back from 25 points in a Super bowl is like seeing a Power bomb in the Olympics wrestling final.
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3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon. It's about what they can do with a basketball. I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario. Just my opinion.
But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up
I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.
Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.
But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team. Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team. I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.
The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.
LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFLom4GZy0
Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.
I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.
Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.
-
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon. It's about what they can do with a basketball. I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario. Just my opinion.
But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up
I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.
Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.
But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team. Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team. I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.
The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.
LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFLom4GZy0
Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.
I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.
Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.
2015-2016 LeBron>1997-1998 Jordan!
I SAID IT!
-
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon. It's about what they can do with a basketball. I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario. Just my opinion.
But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up
I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.
Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.
But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team. Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team. I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.
The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.
LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFLom4GZy0
Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.
I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.
Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.
2015-2016 LeBron>1997-1998 Jordan!
I SAID IT!
Can't tell if u trollin at this point, but not even as good as wizards Jordan .. 2015 he shot under 40% in the finals, 2016 he was terrible until Draymond got suspended game 5 and then Kyrie was the go to guy down the stretch .. Imagine Pippen being the go to guy on an MJ team. LOL!
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3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But your hypotheticals are based more on the disparity between the starting QBs (all very good and very talented) and their backups (all of varying talent and experience) and not so much on the rest of the team. The Packers would be absolute crap with Brett Hundley taking all of the snaps... and I'm a big Hundley fan too and watched him closely while he was at UCLA (and still regret not going to the Alamo Bowl where he led them to beat Kansas State). We saw what happened to the Raiders when Carr went down. But the same thing can happen with Brady, and it can very much be similarly ugly, but you're erroneously believing that the Patriots TODAY are a 10-6 team without him because they actually did that in 2008... which at this point is close to a decade ago. To gauge the capability of a Bradyless 2016-2017 Patriots on a Bradyless 2008-2009 Patriots is crazy. So many different pieces on the table. If the Patriots of today could go 10-6 without Brady, it's because their backup QB has the goods.
All of the teams in discussion are great, but you're acting like the offenses of the Packers and the Raiders are great QBs who have to work with five scarecrows dressed up like linemen and masking their deficiencies. You're acting like the Patriots' other ten guys on offense and eleven guys on defense at all times are head and shoulders above every other team's lineups.
-
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon. It's about what they can do with a basketball. I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario. Just my opinion.
But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up
I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.
Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.
But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team. Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team. I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.
The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.
LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFLom4GZy0
Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.
I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.
Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.
2015-2016 LeBron>1997-1998 Jordan!
I SAID IT!
Can't tell if u trollin at this point, but not even as good as wizards Jordan .. 2015 he shot under 40% in the finals, 2016 he was terrible until Draymond got suspended game 5 and then Kyrie was the go to guy down the stretch .. Imagine Pippen being the go to guy on an MJ team. LOL!
I'm not trolling. I'll get back to the point. My rational to this is that I think of Kobe as a more athletic MJ with longer range and a worst shot selection. So using Kobe vs. LeBron, you see how LeBron would fair against Jordan, you notice Kobe's production goes down. He put a lot of energy trying to stop LeBron and so you have to assume that MJ would also see his offense suffer trying to stop LeBron. It's not even about skill, it's about LeBron being so big, so strong, so fast, so explosive, that MJ would struggle. Just the size of LeBron would wear MJ down.
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3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But your hypotheticals are based more on the disparity between the starting QBs (all very good and very talented) and their backups (all of varying talent and experience) and not so much on the rest of the team. The Packers would be absolute crap with Brett Hundley taking all of the snaps... and I'm a big Hundley fan too and watched him closely while he was at UCLA (and still regret not going to the Alamo Bowl where he led them to beat Kansas State). We saw what happened to the Raiders when Carr went down. But the same thing can happen with Brady, and it can very much be similarly ugly, but you're erroneously believing that the Patriots TODAY are a 10-6 team without him because they actually did that in 2008... which at this point is close to a decade ago. To gauge the capability of a Bradyless 2016-2017 Patriots on a Bradyless 2008-2009 Patriots is crazy. So many different pieces on the table. If the Patriots of today could go 10-6 without Brady, it's because their backup QB has the goods.
All of the teams in discussion are great, but you're acting like the offenses of the Packers and the Raiders are great QBs who have to work with five scarecrows dressed up like linemen and masking their deficiencies. You're acting like the Patriots' other ten guys on offense and eleven guys on defense at all times are head and shoulders above every other team's lineups.
My hypothetical 10-6 record was a conservative record. I was going to say 12-4, based off the 3-1 record but that it couldn't have been that many wins minus Brady.
Also, Matt Cassel went 10-5 as the back up QB in the 2008. He used that year to get a starting job outside New England. He was so good he went 4-11 the next year. He finished with a total starting record of 26-39 when not in New England. Cassel showed that the Belichick system makes the QB look way, way better. I would say Jimmy G. is a way better QB than Cassel. But with that said, Brady does benefit from a great system and great pieces around him.
In terms of other teams, the Packers do have a crap team. Rogers is basically the team. They go as far as he can take them while carry the team on his back. The Raiders on the other hand have a great offense, but their backup situation is horrible as McGloin is only good enough to be a backup and Cook wasn't ready to see the field this year. So both teams to have worse backups. But with that said, Hundley and McGloin would both look way better under the Patriot system than their current systems.
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3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But your hypotheticals are based more on the disparity between the starting QBs (all very good and very talented) and their backups (all of varying talent and experience) and not so much on the rest of the team. The Packers would be absolute crap with Brett Hundley taking all of the snaps... and I'm a big Hundley fan too and watched him closely while he was at UCLA (and still regret not going to the Alamo Bowl where he led them to beat Kansas State). We saw what happened to the Raiders when Carr went down. But the same thing can happen with Brady, and it can very much be similarly ugly, but you're erroneously believing that the Patriots TODAY are a 10-6 team without him because they actually did that in 2008... which at this point is close to a decade ago. To gauge the capability of a Bradyless 2016-2017 Patriots on a Bradyless 2008-2009 Patriots is crazy. So many different pieces on the table. If the Patriots of today could go 10-6 without Brady, it's because their backup QB has the goods.
All of the teams in discussion are great, but you're acting like the offenses of the Packers and the Raiders are great QBs who have to work with five scarecrows dressed up like linemen and masking their deficiencies. You're acting like the Patriots' other ten guys on offense and eleven guys on defense at all times are head and shoulders above every other team's lineups.
They were 3-0 with Jimmy and with no Gronk they looked as good or better than they did with Brady when there was no Gronk.
Do I think they win it all with Jimmy? I don't know. But I think it's mostly fixed anyway.
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3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon. It's about what they can do with a basketball. I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario. Just my opinion.
But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.
Kill yaself
Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.
Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up
I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.
Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.
But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team. Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team. I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.
The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.
LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFLom4GZy0
Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.
I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.
Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.
2015-2016 LeBron>1997-1998 Jordan!
I SAID IT!
Can't tell if u trollin at this point, but not even as good as wizards Jordan .. 2015 he shot under 40% in the finals, 2016 he was terrible until Draymond got suspended game 5 and then Kyrie was the go to guy down the stretch .. Imagine Pippen being the go to guy on an MJ team. LOL!
I'm not trolling. I'll get back to the point. My rational to this is that I think of Kobe as a more athletic MJ with longer range and a worst shot selection. So using Kobe vs. LeBron, you see how LeBron would fair against Jordan, you notice Kobe's production goes down. He put a lot of energy trying to stop LeBron and so you have to assume that MJ would also see his offense suffer trying to stop LeBron. It's not even about skill, it's about LeBron being so big, so strong, so fast, so explosive, that MJ would struggle. Just the size of LeBron would wear MJ down.
Mental gymnastics .. Lebron is not a good one on one player, period. He thrives off other players, which is why he's a pass first. U need to check yaself brodie.
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Fuck Nah Bruh, Roethlisberger is the GOAT and he's coming to Miami Bruh.