West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Connection => Topic started by: Sccit on March 22, 2017, 02:35:06 AM
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PAC JACKED THE BEAT, RIGHT?? OR AARON HALL GAVE IT TO PAC?? BECAUSE I KNOW TEDDY RILEY OFFERED IT TO AARON HALL BEFORE BLACKSTREET TOOK IT.
JMIX, CAN WE GET AN INTERVIEW WITH AARON HALL ON THIS??
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PAC JACKED THE BEAT, RIGHT?? OR AARON HALL GAVE IT TO PAC?? BECAUSE I KNOW TEDDY RILEY OFFERED IT TO AARON HALL BEFORE BLACKSTREET TOOK IT.
JMIX, CAN WE GET AN INTERVIEW WITH AARON HALL ON THIS??
They literally stole the reel from Dre & Blackstreet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn24AbLdDzs
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so who is that doin the main humming adlib throughout the beat?
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so who is that doin the main humming adlib throughout the beat?
Bill Withers
https://www.youtube.com/v/TdrChyGb574
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THAT JMIX VIDEO WONT PLAY FOR SOME REASON....
WHY WAS THE SECOND VERSE REMOVED FROM THE ORIGINAL THAT LEAKED?
AND "NO DIGGITY" WAS RELEASED AS A SINGLE AFTER PAC DIED+THE ALBUM IT WAS ON DROPPED RIGHT AFTER HE WAS SHOT..HOW'D THEY EVEN HEAR IT IN TIME TO REMAKE IT?
DRE REALLY PRODUCED THE SHIT OUT THAT BEAT UP THO, THE "NO DIGGITY" VERSION SOUNDS WAY CLEANER THAN THE ONE PAC USED (I KNOW TEDDY RILEY GOT THE CREDIT, BUT IT'S OBVIOUS DRE HAD HIS HANDS ALL OVER IT WHEN COMPARIN BOTH VERSIONS)
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THAT JMIX VIDEO WONT PLAY FOR SOME REASON....
WHY WAS THE SECOND VERSE REMOVED FROM THE ORIGINAL THAT LEAKED?
AND "NO DIGGITY" WAS RELEASED AS A SINGLE AFTER PAC DIED+THE ALBUM IT WAS ON DROPPED RIGHT AFTER HE WAS SHOT..HOW'D THEY EVEN HEAR IT IN TIME TO REMAKE IT?
DRE REALLY PRODUCED THE SHIT OUT THAT BEAT UP THO, THE "NO DIGGITY" VERSION SOUNDS WAY CLEANER THAN THE ONE PAC USED (I KNOW TEDDY RILEY GOT THE CREDIT, BUT IT'S OBVIOUS DRE HAD HIS HANDS ALL OVER IT WHEN COMPARIN BOTH VERSIONS)
Tommy D said that Dre produced the original version. Check out the interview.
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THAT JMIX VIDEO WONT PLAY FOR SOME REASON....
WHY WAS THE SECOND VERSE REMOVED FROM THE ORIGINAL THAT LEAKED?
AND "NO DIGGITY" WAS RELEASED AS A SINGLE AFTER PAC DIED+THE ALBUM IT WAS ON DROPPED RIGHT AFTER HE WAS SHOT..HOW'D THEY EVEN HEAR IT IN TIME TO REMAKE IT?
DRE REALLY PRODUCED THE SHIT OUT THAT BEAT UP THO, THE "NO DIGGITY" VERSION SOUNDS WAY CLEANER THAN THE ONE PAC USED (I KNOW TEDDY RILEY GOT THE CREDIT, BUT IT'S OBVIOUS DRE HAD HIS HANDS ALL OVER IT WHEN COMPARIN BOTH VERSIONS)
Maybe Suge had the foresight to dodge that potential legal issue.
Also, remember that the Toss It Up OG is likely not a final mixdown, so it's not going to sound as crisp as a finished product. Not that it would really have fucked with No Diggity, from a beat/mix perspective.
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THAT JMIX VIDEO WONT PLAY FOR SOME REASON....
WHY WAS THE SECOND VERSE REMOVED FROM THE ORIGINAL THAT LEAKED?
AND "NO DIGGITY" WAS RELEASED AS A SINGLE AFTER PAC DIED+THE ALBUM IT WAS ON DROPPED RIGHT AFTER HE WAS SHOT..HOW'D THEY EVEN HEAR IT IN TIME TO REMAKE IT?
DRE REALLY PRODUCED THE SHIT OUT THAT BEAT UP THO, THE "NO DIGGITY" VERSION SOUNDS WAY CLEANER THAN THE ONE PAC USED (I KNOW TEDDY RILEY GOT THE CREDIT, BUT IT'S OBVIOUS DRE HAD HIS HANDS ALL OVER IT WHEN COMPARIN BOTH VERSIONS)
Tommy D said that Dre produced the original version. Check out the interview.
it's funny how many people say dre has ghost producers when he's actually the one notorious for ghost producing others
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THAT JMIX VIDEO WONT PLAY FOR SOME REASON....
WHY WAS THE SECOND VERSE REMOVED FROM THE ORIGINAL THAT LEAKED?
AND "NO DIGGITY" WAS RELEASED AS A SINGLE AFTER PAC DIED+THE ALBUM IT WAS ON DROPPED RIGHT AFTER HE WAS SHOT..HOW'D THEY EVEN HEAR IT IN TIME TO REMAKE IT?
DRE REALLY PRODUCED THE SHIT OUT THAT BEAT UP THO, THE "NO DIGGITY" VERSION SOUNDS WAY CLEANER THAN THE ONE PAC USED (I KNOW TEDDY RILEY GOT THE CREDIT, BUT IT'S OBVIOUS DRE HAD HIS HANDS ALL OVER IT WHEN COMPARIN BOTH VERSIONS)
Tommy D said that Dre produced the original version. Check out the interview.
it's funny how many people say dre has ghost producers when he's actually the one notorious for ghost producing others
Way the industry works. It goes both ways.
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PAC JACKED THE BEAT, RIGHT?? OR AARON HALL GAVE IT TO PAC?? BECAUSE I KNOW TEDDY RILEY OFFERED IT TO AARON HALL BEFORE BLACKSTREET TOOK IT.
JMIX, CAN WE GET AN INTERVIEW WITH AARON HALL ON THIS??
Where did you hear Aaron Hall was offered the beat from Teddy? The true OG of Toss It Up, which is unleaked, is an Aaron Hall song. It might have featured Danny Boy and or Kci & JoJo at that point, not sure when they came into the picture.
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PAC JACKED THE BEAT, RIGHT?? OR AARON HALL GAVE IT TO PAC?? BECAUSE I KNOW TEDDY RILEY OFFERED IT TO AARON HALL BEFORE BLACKSTREET TOOK IT.
JMIX, CAN WE GET AN INTERVIEW WITH AARON HALL ON THIS??
Where did you hear Aaron Hall was offered the beat from Teddy? The true OG of Toss It Up, which is unleaked, is an Aaron Hall song. It might have featured Danny Boy and or Kci & JoJo at that point, not sure when they came into the picture.
"Co-producer Teddy Riley originally offered the song to Guy as part of their short-lived reunion in 1996. After failing to record any material, he then suggested the song to Guy's lead singer Aaron Hall, who refused to take part in recording the song.[2] He then offered the song to his other group Blackstreet. In a 2010 interview, Riley revealed the song was initially a hard sell among group members."
from the wiki entry
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PAC JACKED THE BEAT, RIGHT?? OR AARON HALL GAVE IT TO PAC?? BECAUSE I KNOW TEDDY RILEY OFFERED IT TO AARON HALL BEFORE BLACKSTREET TOOK IT.
JMIX, CAN WE GET AN INTERVIEW WITH AARON HALL ON THIS??
Where did you hear Aaron Hall was offered the beat from Teddy? The true OG of Toss It Up, which is unleaked, is an Aaron Hall song. It might have featured Danny Boy and or Kci & JoJo at that point, not sure when they came into the picture.
"Co-producer Teddy Riley originally offered the song to Guy as part of their short-lived reunion in 1996. After failing to record any material, he then suggested the song to Guy's lead singer Aaron Hall, who refused to take part in recording the song.[2] He then offered the song to his other group Blackstreet. In a 2010 interview, Riley revealed the song was initially a hard sell among group members."
from the wiki entry
Thanks. I googled it before you replied and found that info in an old Billboard magazine so it's not just some wiki BS.
So maybe the truth is that Dre was never involved in producing the No Diggity/Toss It Up OG beat. It was always just assumed it was Dre's.
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What tracks did Dre ghost produce?
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(http://dissociatedpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/caps-lock-day-lg.gif)
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PAC JACKED THE BEAT, RIGHT?? OR AARON HALL GAVE IT TO PAC?? BECAUSE I KNOW TEDDY RILEY OFFERED IT TO AARON HALL BEFORE BLACKSTREET TOOK IT.
JMIX, CAN WE GET AN INTERVIEW WITH AARON HALL ON THIS??
Where did you hear Aaron Hall was offered the beat from Teddy? The true OG of Toss It Up, which is unleaked, is an Aaron Hall song. It might have featured Danny Boy and or Kci & JoJo at that point, not sure when they came into the picture.
"Co-producer Teddy Riley originally offered the song to Guy as part of their short-lived reunion in 1996. After failing to record any material, he then suggested the song to Guy's lead singer Aaron Hall, who refused to take part in recording the song.[2] He then offered the song to his other group Blackstreet. In a 2010 interview, Riley revealed the song was initially a hard sell among group members."
from the wiki entry
Thanks. I googled it before you replied and found that info in an old Billboard magazine so it's not just some wiki BS.
So maybe the truth is that Dre was never involved in producing the No Diggity/Toss It Up OG beat. It was always just assumed it was Dre's.
I was thinking about it, and other than his own artists who he was involved with developing (Snoop, Em, 50 and to some degree Knoc), he rarely did a guest appearance AND produced it. I was reminded of that Jay-Z song "Watch Me" that had Dre on it, but even though people thought Dre produced it too, it was an irv Gotti beat. So something like No Diggity kind of falls in line with that.
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What tracks did Dre ghost produce?
most of dogg food, for starters
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Thanks for kicking those capitals to kerb, now heres the scoop as I see it.
Dre made that beat on DR and it was to be used for an R&B project, possibly Danny Boys album and originally had one Pac verse over a skeleton work in progress version of the beat. Now bear in mind that Dre had a home studio and from when Pac got onto the Row Dre did most of his work there so he had a more finished version of the song with him when he left DR, he handed it over to Teddy Riley to finish the track which was a clever move as it keeps his name out there and gets him publishing points from his appearance whilst being able to give him a ghosted beat that legally was owned by DR anyway so he couldn't put it out there with his name attached.
Getting Riley was a slick move anyway as he knew the original featured Aaron Hall (who had fell out with Riley over issues with Guy) and that with the right polish it would be a hit, Teddy jumped on it and finished up the track which Dre mixed down (listen to it and you can hear a Dre mix a mile off compared to the rest of the album).
Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
I'm not bothered about what that Billboard article says as Teddy is a known liar and the above fits the timeline, the people, their temperaments/style, Pacs verses and everything else.
Dre always needed someone else to stand beside him, Pac moved quick, Aaron hated Teddy, Teddy has no morales.
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Thanks for kicking those capitals to kerb, now heres the scoop as I see it.
Dre made that beat on DR and it was to be used for an R&B project, possibly Danny Boys album and originally had one Pac verse over a skeleton work in progress version of the beat. Now bear in mind that Dre had a home studio and from when Pac got onto the Row Dre did most of his work there so he had a more finished version of the song with him when he left DR, he handed it over to Teddy Riley to finish the track which was a clever move as it keeps his name out there and gets him publishing points from his appearance whilst being able to give him a ghosted beat that legally was owned by DR anyway so he couldn't put it out there with his name attached.
Getting Riley was a slick move anyway as he knew the original featured Aaron Hall (who had fell out with Riley over issues with Guy) and that with the right polish it would be a hit, Teddy jumped on it and finished up the track which Dre mixed down (listen to it and you can hear a Dre mix a mile off compared to the rest of the album).
Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
I'm not bothered about what that Billboard article says as Teddy is a known liar and the above fits the timeline, the people, their temperaments/style, Pacs verses and everything else.
Dre always needed someone else to stand beside him, Pac moved quick, Aaron hated Teddy, Teddy has no morales.
GOOD POINT ABOUT BLACKSTREET GETTIN PAC BACK WIT "DONT LEAVE ME", I DIDNT EVEN THINK OF THAT
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DBUz2nkOKsc
THAT WAS MY JOINT
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(http://dissociatedpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/caps-lock-day-lg.gif)
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(http://dissociatedpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/caps-lock-day-lg.gif)
YES .. WE SAW THAT IT UPSETS U THE FIRST TIME. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC.
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Thanks for kicking those capitals to kerb, now heres the scoop as I see it.
Dre made that beat on DR and it was to be used for an R&B project, possibly Danny Boys album and originally had one Pac verse over a skeleton work in progress version of the beat. Now bear in mind that Dre had a home studio and from when Pac got onto the Row Dre did most of his work there so he had a more finished version of the song with him when he left DR, he handed it over to Teddy Riley to finish the track which was a clever move as it keeps his name out there and gets him publishing points from his appearance whilst being able to give him a ghosted beat that legally was owned by DR anyway so he couldn't put it out there with his name attached.
Getting Riley was a slick move anyway as he knew the original featured Aaron Hall (who had fell out with Riley over issues with Guy) and that with the right polish it would be a hit, Teddy jumped on it and finished up the track which Dre mixed down (listen to it and you can hear a Dre mix a mile off compared to the rest of the album).
Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
I'm not bothered about what that Billboard article says as Teddy is a known liar and the above fits the timeline, the people, their temperaments/style, Pacs verses and everything else.
Dre always needed someone else to stand beside him, Pac moved quick, Aaron hated Teddy, Teddy has no morales.
Your theory sounds plausible except for Pac was definitely not on the OG. It was an Aaron Hall song and Pac jumped on it later. The rest of what you said fits though.
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.
but think how quick pac had to make toss it up tho....thats my take. how did pac even know about "no diggity", that song was literally released 2 days after he got shot. so from what I gathered, both parties had some inside information, probably from aaron hall, since he was in contact with both sides. cats have mixed and mastered an entire album in weeks, so 1 song is not inconceivable.. especially when u got that kinda passion behind it that comes from tryna get some getback. it fuels the motor.
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.
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In a similar vein, I always found it odd that Dre allowed Blu Cantrelle (who wasn't well known at all) to wholesale take the beat to 'What's The Difference' and use it for her single 'Breathe'. Now I know that Dre's track itself uses a sample, but it's still surprising that it was allowed so soon after Chronic 2001 came out. Anyone know the deal with that?
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.
but think how quick pac had to make toss it up tho....thats my take. how did pac even know about "no diggity", that song was literally released 2 days after he got shot. so from what I gathered, both parties had some inside information, probably from aaron hall, since he was in contact with both sides. cats have mixed and mastered an entire album in weeks, so 1 song is not inconceivable.. especially when u got that kinda passion behind it that comes from tryna get some getback. it fuels the motor.
I wasn't saying it was impossible, I'm just saying that's a tight timeline for it to happen. We need Aaron Hall to clear it all up for us, but after seeing his interviews with Vlad I bet he would just make it more confusing for us. Dude definitely did some serious drugs in his day.
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In a similar vein, I always found it odd that Dre allowed Blu Cantrelle (who wasn't well known at all) to wholesale take the beat to 'What's The Difference' and use it for her single 'Breathe'. Now I know that Dre's track itself uses a sample, but it's still surprising that it was allowed so soon after Chronic 2001 came out. Anyone know the deal with that?
Why would they need Dre's clearance to use the sample? And there was a 4 year gap between the songs.
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In a similar vein, I always found it odd that Dre allowed Blu Cantrelle (who wasn't well known at all) to wholesale take the beat to 'What's The Difference' and use it for her single 'Breathe'. Now I know that Dre's track itself uses a sample, but it's still surprising that it was allowed so soon after Chronic 2001 came out. Anyone know the deal with that?
That's a different situation.
Blu Cantrelle straight up used the same beat for What's the Difference. She recorded her song using Dre's instrumental, like a remix. kinda like how Cam'ron's My Life uses Ambitionz Az A Ridah.
I Ain't Mad at Cha and AEOM are two different beats which interpolate the same song. the songs sound very different. just the single version and the album version are pretty different from one another.
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.
but think how quick pac had to make toss it up tho....thats my take. how did pac even know about "no diggity", that song was literally released 2 days after he got shot. so from what I gathered, both parties had some inside information, probably from aaron hall, since he was in contact with both sides. cats have mixed and mastered an entire album in weeks, so 1 song is not inconceivable.. especially when u got that kinda passion behind it that comes from tryna get some getback. it fuels the motor.
They most likely just had inside info. Remember Pac's last interview with VIBE... he even talks about Cube making the song Bow Down, which didn't come out until August 28th, but I'm pretty sure that VIBE interview was definitely done before that.
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.
u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.
but think how quick pac had to make toss it up tho....thats my take. how did pac even know about "no diggity", that song was literally released 2 days after he got shot. so from what I gathered, both parties had some inside information, probably from aaron hall, since he was in contact with both sides. cats have mixed and mastered an entire album in weeks, so 1 song is not inconceivable.. especially when u got that kinda passion behind it that comes from tryna get some getback. it fuels the motor.
They most likely just had inside info. Remember Pac's last interview with VIBE... he even talks about Cube making the song Bow Down, which didn't come out until August 28th, but I'm pretty sure that VIBE interview was definitely done before that.
yup...lota those peoples in question ran in the same circles. wouldn't be surprised if some1 came at teddy like "yo pac jacked u, but I heard he just used this debarge sample..bet we can get him back by flipping that sample on a r&b joint".
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.
u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.
The "revenge" wouldn't have gone back that far though because there was nothing to "avenge" until August 96.
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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.
That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.
u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.
The "revenge" wouldn't have gone back that far though because there was nothing to "avenge" until August 96.
yea...so the revenge happened in august. thats what I'm saying in my following post. its not a sure thing, but it would be one hell of a coincidence if that wasn't the case.
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u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.
I don't have any inside information, it's just common sense. Since the album was out as early as February, it's n and chronologically it doesn't really add up.
1) I Ain't Mad At Cha came out before Toss It Up was made.
2) Pac was dead before Toss It Up was released.
3) Toss It Up and No Diggity were released within the same week in late september.
4) Stay With Me came out as a single in early 97. A little late for revenge don't you think ?
Now, the Backstreet album was released on September 9, that means, knowing you have to submit an album to the record company at the very least a month and a half before the actual release date, that at best Don't Leave Me was recorded, mixed and mastered in late July 96. They hadn't even shot the video for Toss It Up, and most likely not even recorded it. So Blackstreet anticipated Pac to jack their song and went out of their way to rush a song with the same sample, and made a late minuted inclusion on their album just in case ? Doesn't make sense to me.
Also, how is using the same sample is revenge exactly ? How is it jacking ? It's neither. If Blackstreet had beat Pac to the punch by releasing a similar song, with a similar concept and similar video, that is revenge and jacking cause it makes the later artist look bad. But in that case, not really.
In that case, did Wreck N Effects release Rump Shaker to piss off N2Deep ? Both songs came out around summer 92.
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u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.
I don't have any inside information, it's just common sense. Since the album was out as early as February, it's n and chronologically it doesn't really add up.
1) I Ain't Mad At Cha came out before Toss It Up was made.
2) Pac was dead before Toss It Up was released.
3) Toss It Up and No Diggity were released within the same week in late september.
4) Stay With Me came out as a single in early 97. A little late for revenge don't you think ?
Now, the Backstreet album was released on September 9, that means, knowing you have to submit an album to the record company at the very least a month and a half before the actual release date, that at best Don't Leave Me was recorded, mixed and mastered in late July 96. They hadn't even shot the video for Toss It Up, and most likely not even recorded it. So Blackstreet anticipated Pac to jack their song and went out of their way to rush a song with the same sample, and made a late minuted inclusion on their album just in case ? Doesn't make sense to me.
Also, how is using the same sample is revenge exactly ? How is it jacking ? It's neither. If Blackstreet had beat Pac to the punch by releasing a similar song, with a similar concept and similar video, that is revenge and jacking cause it makes the later artist look bad. But in that case, not really.
In that case, did Wreck N Effects release Rump Shaker to piss off N2Deep ? Both songs came out around summer 92.
lol if u dont see how its a slap in the face to purposely use the same exact sample for the primary melody on a beat as a single that just came out, I duno what to tell ya .. n2deep and wreck n effects is completely different, because theres no history and backstory like there was in this incident. if it was a coincidence wit wrecks n effects, then theres REALLY no problems. but lets say wreck n effects did hear the n2deep joint and then decided to use the same sample, then yea, that would be biting and could become a problem (I vaguely remember a diff beef starting over artists jacking sample ideas from each other)...but unlike the n2deep-wreck n effects example, in this case, theres a clear history between the artists using the same sample; it would straight up be on some "we took your joint and made it ours, so it aint u no more" shit. aint nobody hearing that was thinking debarge at the time. when both songs was on pop radio, the general consensus was thinking "aw shit, blackstreet is singing on that new pac joint".
"I aint mad at cha" came out months before, but what does that have anything to do with this? ur points make no sense at all..what u missin is that "I aint mad at cha" was scheduled to be pac's new single around the time "toss it up" was made. like I said, a lot of peoples run in the same circles out in cali- especially when u dealing wit aaron hall, who was playin both sides..that means inside info aint that hard to come by. teddy riley produced "dont leave me".. that song coulda literally been done in a day; the same day they heard about "toss it up" (summer of 96) ..remember they was saying aaron hall did the joint before pac got on it. even if they didnt hear the actual song, people talk..word musta been floating around that pac was taking that joint as a diss around July- same time blackstreet woulda did "don't leave me"...and what joint was being released as pac's next single during that time-frame?...."I aint mad at cha".
the timelines add up perfectly
not saying thats what happened for sure, because we dont know unless the artists speak on it...but to act like u do know when theres no evidence either way is getting ahead of yaself.
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lamb gets it.
The use of the flip and how they followed No Diggity with it was always intended as a dig and as I said Dre would've known that Pac was smoothing out the flipped sample for the I Ain't Mad At Cha video version and Teddy replayed it with a very similar vibe/style. Had it just been an album track with its production the way it was it might've been a "hmmm" and no more thing but the fact that it was a planned single always lead me to believe that No Diggity/Don't Leave Me was going to be a double A side release but that was canned when Pac died and moved to two standard releases.
Can you imagine his reaction if he were alive? Dre gave them "his" beat, he took it back and they jacked his new singles sample and dropped them both at once?
Pac himself did the same thing to Nas over the Friends sample ("I took your beat and am whupping your ass with it") and in the competitive nature of hiphop jacking someones beat after they've declared it theirs is an act of aggression that always warrants a response.
These are the facts, even if you can't see them.
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not saying thats what happened for sure, because we dont know unless the artists speak on it...but to act like u do know when theres no evidence either way is getting ahead of yaself.
that's precisely what I'm NOT doing. i'm saying that everything u been saying about this situation is pure hypotheticals. at the end of the day, the only thing we DO know, is that Toss It Up & No Diggity have similarities and that Don't Leave Me & I Ain't Mad At Cha interpolate the same song. U and eyeball are the ones making claims about "beat jacking" elaborating from a few tangible elements. as you said there's no evidence either way. only a few elements.
it's far fetched and exaggerated to use the word "jack" for the use of a same song that do not belong to Pac. that's it.
lamb gets it.
The use of the flip and how they followed No Diggity with it was always intended as a dig and as I said Dre would've known that Pac was smoothing out the flipped sample for the I Ain't Mad At Cha video version and Teddy replayed it with a very similar vibe/style. Had it just been an album track with its production the way it was it might've been a "hmmm" and no more thing but the fact that it was a planned single always lead me to believe that No Diggity/Don't Leave Me was going to be a double A side release but that was canned when Pac died and moved to two standard releases.
Can you imagine his reaction if he were alive? Dre gave them "his" beat, he took it back and they jacked his new singles sample and dropped them both at once?
Pac himself did the same thing to Nas over the Friends sample ("I took your beat and am whupping your ass with it") and in the competitive nature of hiphop jacking someones beat after they've declared it theirs is an act of aggression that always warrants a response.
These are the facts, even if you can't see them.
that's a nice theory but please don't call facts hypotheticals. you use facts to make assumptions and deductions, that's fine, we all do, but the word fact is one of the most misused term nowadays. . I understand your point better now though, fair enough, and it does make sense although I still don't think we can say Dre did it and that they "jacked" Pac's beat.
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Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
fact
fakt/
noun
noun: fact; plural noun: facts
a thing that is known or proved to be true.
I've outlined a nice and simple flow of events from the rooter to the tooter about this track, if you want we could get extra nerdy with all the recording dates, pertinent external activity, character references and examples of ways each involved choose to conduct business along with a whole load of anecdotals that further reinforce the facts of the scenario outlined.
Bottom line is it went down as I stated and as for why Dre did it, simple:
a) He acts like a bitch when it comes to confrontation and isn't the type to beef out in the open but doing it via proxy using Teddy Riley fits his style.
b) He knew Pac was coming for head and that DR would be pissed that he slid a beat out of their vault that they wouldn't be able to bank or nor sue him for as it was credited to Riley but he still got publishing for his verse and thus still ate/increased his profile
c) There was some background legal shenanigans around this era between Dre and DR which was why the beat was reproduced for Makaveli
I'm surprised that you require clarification on this topic given the nature of the personalities involved, the history, how hiphop was at the time, what Pac was like, the tension between Aaron Hall and Riley and all the other points I outlined.
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But you have to remember that that was a time where beats getting jacked (whether intentionally or just coincidentally using the same sample) caused a lot of animosity. It's not like now where artists can put up songs they made that day. Back then, they made stuff and had a strategy for releasing it, so imagine how annoying it was to have a hot potential single in your hands and plan to have it generate buzz, then someone else puts out a song that sounds the same. Then they either have to scrap or remix it, or put it out anyway and suffer from the law of diminishing returns where people hear it and go, "heard that already, they copied it."
Pac went off about that with Ready to Die, and when more unreleased stuff came out, we did hear Time to Get My Drink On with the same "Between the Sheets" sample, so he wasn't reaching too far about how he had to change things around. And I think there was an OFTB interview where they talked about how Ladies Night was supposed to be a single of theirs, but when Lil Kim remixed Not Tonight with that same sample and made it a single, then that kind of screwed up their plans, which is hard since OFTB wasn't the radio single type of group.
Shit, even Puff beefed over beats, albeit with a softie. Remember how he socked Drake over the 0-100 beat?
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not saying thats what happened for sure, because we dont know unless the artists speak on it...but to act like u do know when theres no evidence either way is getting ahead of yaself.
that's precisely what I'm NOT doing. i'm saying that everything u been saying about this situation is pure hypotheticals. at the end of the day, the only thing we DO know, is that Toss It Up & No Diggity have similarities and that Don't Leave Me & I Ain't Mad At Cha interpolate the same song. U and eyeball are the ones making claims about "beat jacking" elaborating from a few tangible elements. as you said there's no evidence either way. only a few elements.
it's far fetched and exaggerated to use the word "jack" for the use of a same song that do not belong to Pac. that's it.
lamb gets it.
The use of the flip and how they followed No Diggity with it was always intended as a dig and as I said Dre would've known that Pac was smoothing out the flipped sample for the I Ain't Mad At Cha video version and Teddy replayed it with a very similar vibe/style. Had it just been an album track with its production the way it was it might've been a "hmmm" and no more thing but the fact that it was a planned single always lead me to believe that No Diggity/Don't Leave Me was going to be a double A side release but that was canned when Pac died and moved to two standard releases.
Can you imagine his reaction if he were alive? Dre gave them "his" beat, he took it back and they jacked his new singles sample and dropped them both at once?
Pac himself did the same thing to Nas over the Friends sample ("I took your beat and am whupping your ass with it") and in the competitive nature of hiphop jacking someones beat after they've declared it theirs is an act of aggression that always warrants a response.
These are the facts, even if you can't see them.
that's a nice theory but please don't call facts hypotheticals. you use facts to make assumptions and deductions, that's fine, we all do, but the word fact is one of the most misused term nowadays. . I understand your point better now though, fair enough, and it does make sense although I still don't think we can say Dre did it and that they "jacked" Pac's beat.
wrong .. you are the one making conclusive statements like u got inside info over there ala "they didn't jack anyone" .. i said from the very beginning that these are all hypotheticals and i'm not ruling out either scenario. meanwhile, u ruled out the same sample bein flipped as a slap in the face. gotta be careful what info u put out there as definitives when u aren't positive, not just on this meaningless topic, but in general.
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At the very least I bet that Teddy was inspired to to use the Debarge sample after hearing I Ain't Mad At Cha.
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At the very least I bet that Teddy was inspired to to use the Debarge sample after hearing I Ain't Mad At Cha.
"inspired" makes it sound friendly lol
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sorry i missed this thread. i am working on Mr. Hall now.
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At the very least I bet that Teddy was inspired to to use the Debarge sample after hearing I Ain't Mad At Cha.
"inspired" makes it sound friendly lol
That's what I meant. At the very least he heard I Ain't Mad At Cha and decided he wanted to flip it for the Blackstreet album, not on some revenge shit. I Ain't Mad At Cha wasn't a single until right before Pac died so he might not have thought it would be a big deal to use the same sample.
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Your Teddy Riley apologist tone is quite strange.
Consider Riley took that beat when offered it by Dre even though he knew Pac had spit on it before and if he didn't he certainly did once the Toss It Up promo vinyl dropped one month before Makaveli. It's also quite strange how you can't appear to put together the pieces of how he'd Jack Pacs beat in return for him doing the same.
Simple question:
What age were you in 96?
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At the very least I bet that Teddy was inspired to to use the Debarge sample after hearing I Ain't Mad At Cha.
"inspired" makes it sound friendly lol
That's what I meant. At the very least he heard I Ain't Mad At Cha and decided he wanted to flip it for the Blackstreet album, not on some revenge shit. I Ain't Mad At Cha wasn't a single until right before Pac died so he might not have thought it would be a big deal to use the same sample.
i think it's either done wit intent or by coincidence .. i highly doubt there's an in between here.
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Your Teddy Riley apologist tone is quite strange.
Consider Riley took that beat when offered it by Dre even though he knew Pac had spit on it before and if he didn't he certainly did once the Toss It Up promo vinyl dropped one month before Makaveli. It's also quite strange how you can't appear to put together the pieces of how he'd Jack Pacs beat in return for him doing the same.
Simple question:
What age were you in 96?
You misunderstood what I said, I'm not being an apologist at all. I said "at the very least," as in we can at least concede that without knowing more. I was definitely not ruling out him doing something nefarious by using the same Debarge sample. The narrow window Teddy had to use the same sample as get back is why I am not convinced one way or the other on it, without going off more than what somebody said on dubcc. But like I said before, your theory is very plausible even with the narrow window.
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the good thing is that the great jmix is guna clear it all up for us .. what would dubcc do witout him? a shame rud hasn't got at him yet to make him dubcnn's exclusive interviewer .. whatever happened to shima btw?
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A lot of songs were re-sampled & remade with the same beats or tweaking them a bit in the mid 90s. It was common knowledge. Nothing different here no theories or conspiracies.
No Diggity, NO DOUBT!.
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Me and Sccit were talking about the whole situation with those songs and he send a link for this hread. We were talking about toss it up because I知 recording over the beat and I知 using the OG lol
Any way
I think the reason nobody sued was both pac and black street were sighed to interscope. I still think if pac was alive he was going after them and he kinda say that on the actual song like you were not quick enough to release it
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Me and Sccit were talking about the whole situation with those songs and he send a link for this hread. We were talking about toss it up because I知 recording over the beat and I知 using the OG lol
Any way
I think the reason nobody sued was both pac and black street were sighed to interscope. I still think if pac was alive he was going after them and he kinda say that on the actual song like you were not quick enough to release it
The whole story has been told. Teddy explains really well in a recent Vlad interview. I was old enough but unfortunately I was living in Kansas City at the time. But did you know if you had been living in LA in early August 1996 you would've actually been driving down the freeway one day and suddenly "Toss It Up" No Diggity version comes on radio before ever hearing or knowing of the Teddy Riley version!!!
So Teddy and Blackstreet were getting ready to release their monster single featuring when Suge and Pac did one of the most epic boss moves in rap history and beat Dre and Teddy to the punch and had Pac on radio with the banger before Teddy's could drop!!!
that's some epic shit right there. So anyway, Teddy tells the story, that Jimmy then contacted Suge and made Suge stop that shit immediately. Later that month in August "No Diggity" came out Teddy's version and if you were living in KC like I was at the time none of us even knew all that shit went down until way later, the Teddy version as the first version we heard in Midwest. And that track was such a banger I still remember where I was at the time I first heard it!!
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so did jmix ever get aaron hall痴 account?
:hmmm:
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I recall (my memory may not be 100% correct), that I think Jimmy Iovine or someone from Interscope were having a meeting with Suge (and I think some artists/producers were present) and I think they had the No Diggity track on a sampler trying and played it to Suge to get his opinion.
After Jimmy left, Suge told the producers who were present and heard the track to reproduce it/jack it from as best they could from their memory.
2Pac made the original version, it got back to Jimmy/Interscope and put a block on the original version then 2Pac/Death Row were forced to remix it (the released version).
Blackstreet's Another Level album (which contains No Diggity) was released on Interscope, so this would make sense.
I can't remember which interview I heard this from but i'm sure it was one of Art's interviews from one of the Makaveli producers.
EDIT:
I found this J-Felxx interview (go to 6min):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSo3qZzosCU
This is of interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW0pTFLFMCQ&pp=ygUPbm8gZGlnZ2l0eSAycGFj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGBF7zbAbP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irNrvTohvps
I'm still trying to find the makaveli producer talking about hearing No Diggity and ripping it off for Toss it up
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^^^ Yeah man it's in those Teddy Riley interviews with VLAD that the story is told in full.
...Like I said, what a boss move to do by Suge and 2pac at the time. They were on that epic summer run where they were getting the best of all their enemies. Fuccin Puffy's wife, fucking Biggie's wife. Going out bowling with them...
...Well now, Dre leaves Death Row. And this was all set to be Dre's first big banger and post-Death Row hit. "Nas is Coming" was some weak ass shit. And Guess what? Pac had some fucking heat for Nas ass as well because "Me And My Girlfriend" was about to one-up Nas' "I Gave You Power"--and then on top of that he beats Dre to the punch and bangs out "Toss It Up" is bangin' on LA Radio before Dre's "No Diggity" can get released--undermining Dre's efforts!!
These mutherfuckaz was playin chess not checkers!!!
....(of course, in the long run--Dre gets over on Suge after Suge goes to prison, Eminem blowing up, 2001, Up In Smoke Tour, 50 Cent, Straight Outta Compton movie, etc....)
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I recall (my memory may not be 100% correct), that I think Jimmy Iovine or someone from Interscope were having a meeting with Suge (and I think some artists/producers were present) and I think they had the No Diggity track on a sampler trying and played it to Suge to get his opinion.
After Jimmy left, Suge told the producers who were present and heard the track to reproduce it/jack it from as best they could from their memory.
2Pac made the original version, it got back to Jimmy/Interscope and put a block on the original version then 2Pac/Death Row were forced to remix it (the released version).
Blackstreet's Another Level album (which contains No Diggity) was released on Interscope, so this would make sense.
I can't remember which interview I heard this from but i'm sure it was one of Art's interviews from one of the Makaveli producers.
EDIT:
I found this J-Felxx interview (go to 6min):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSo3qZzosCU
This is of interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW0pTFLFMCQ&pp=ygUPbm8gZGlnZ2l0eSAycGFj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGBF7zbAbP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irNrvTohvps
I'm still trying to find the makaveli producer talking about hearing No Diggity and ripping it off for Toss it up
DeVante wasn't even involved in that song
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I recall (my memory may not be 100% correct), that I think Jimmy Iovine or someone from Interscope were having a meeting with Suge (and I think some artists/producers were present) and I think they had the No Diggity track on a sampler trying and played it to Suge to get his opinion.
After Jimmy left, Suge told the producers who were present and heard the track to reproduce it/jack it from as best they could from their memory.
2Pac made the original version, it got back to Jimmy/Interscope and put a block on the original version then 2Pac/Death Row were forced to remix it (the released version).
Blackstreet's Another Level album (which contains No Diggity) was released on Interscope, so this would make sense.
I can't remember which interview I heard this from but i'm sure it was one of Art's interviews from one of the Makaveli producers.
EDIT:
I found this J-Felxx interview (go to 6min):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSo3qZzosCU
This is of interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW0pTFLFMCQ&pp=ygUPbm8gZGlnZ2l0eSAycGFj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGBF7zbAbP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irNrvTohvps
I'm still trying to find the makaveli producer talking about hearing No Diggity and ripping it off for Toss it up
lol no way that was reproduced based off memory
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I can' see why it couldn't be remade from memory, the No Diggity beat is really basic - the beat is the first few seconds of Bill Wither's 'Grandma's Hands' and looped.
I found Danny Boy saying this (check from 43min:40sec), where he briefly speaks on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEqYVKrjV0o&t=81s
I'm still trying to find the interview where the guy says that the heard the No Diggit and tried to remake it from memory
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I can' see why it couldn't be remade from memory, the No Diggity beat is really basic - the beat is the first few seconds of Bill Wither's 'Grandma's Hands' and looped.
I found Danny Boy saying this (check from 43min:40sec), where he briefly speaks on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEqYVKrjV0o&t=81s
I'm still trying to find the interview where the guy says that the heard the No Diggit and tried to remake it from memory
yea but to get it exact like that from suge of all people hearin a snippet.. c知on fam
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There were some Death Row producers/artists present at the meeting with Jimmy when he played No Diggity for an opinion (Jimmy wasn't originally feeling it for the first single).
I would imagine it were the producer(s) who were present, not Suge who memorised the track and reconstructed it.
It's not a complicated beat at all, just the intro to this track looped:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdrChyGb574
and a short piano drop and 'heyo, heyo, heyo, heyo' vocal.
Really simple to remember in my opinion
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The whole story has been told. Teddy explains really well in a recent Vlad interview. I was old enough but unfortunately I was living in Kansas City at the time. But did you know if you had been living in LA in early August 1996 you would've actually been driving down the freeway one day and suddenly "Toss It Up" No Diggity version comes on radio before ever hearing or knowing of the Teddy Riley version!!!
So Teddy and Blackstreet were getting ready to release their monster single featuring when Suge and Pac did one of the most epic boss moves in rap history and beat Dre and Teddy to the punch and had Pac on radio with the banger before Teddy's could drop!!!
that's some epic shit right there. So anyway, Teddy tells the story, that Jimmy then contacted Suge and made Suge stop that shit immediately. Later that month in August "No Diggity" came out Teddy's version and if you were living in KC like I was at the time none of us even knew all that shit went down until way later, the Teddy version as the first version we heard in Midwest. And that track was such a banger I still remember where I was at the time I first heard it!!
Bro I was living in Israel I was introduce to toss it up video only when greatest hits came out lolll all we had was mtv UK and they used to play no digtty all day long
I saw that teddy interview it痴 like jimmy took their side but I can understand why 😂 and the first version that came on the radio is the one without the last pac verse ?
And I notice when they rerelease toss it up as a single it came out under MCA
I hope I値l get clear for the cover with the piano drop but I値l recored on both version..
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There were some Death Row producers/artists present at the meeting with Jimmy when he played No Diggity for an opinion (Jimmy wasn't originally feeling it for the first single).
I would imagine it were the producer(s) who were present, not Suge who memorised the track and reconstructed it.
It's not a complicated beat at all, just the intro to this track looped:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdrChyGb574
and a short piano drop and 'heyo, heyo, heyo, heyo' vocal.
Really simple to remember in my opinion
every other account says otherwise
i知 not buyin this at all
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I thought it was Teddy Rieley and he just used the same beat hence Aaron Hall.