West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: Primo on October 23, 2003, 06:59:05 PM
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Aight... First off, I am gonna come out sayin' hip hop is hip hop whether its mainstream or underground..This whole commercial hatin' shit gotta stop. The catagories should be Dope/Wack rappers, and should not be catagorized on how many units they sell.Flashback to the beginin of hip hop to about 96'. Notice there wasn't really a distinct split between "Shiny suit rap"/Underground shit. Hip hop was hip hop back then. Either you were dope or wack. I wish it was like that.. There is so much hatin' on Eminem cuz he 'sold out' in there eyes. Why hate on him when he is better than 95 percent of whats on the radio right now.Think about this, what if you were like Eminem.You came from the bottom, sellin records out of ya trunk or what not.Would you be like "Oh im gonna be underground forever cuz they are doper and be broke my whole life". Of course you wouldn't.. You would want to be at the top. Nobody goes through life wanting to be at the bottom. Yeah there are dope lyricists in both of the imaginary worlds of 'mainstream' and 'underground'..I am a fan of the dope lyricists...If you go to a site like UGHH.com and check there forums. You cannot post there about a mainstream artist or u will get attacked with shit like "Oh he sold out" or "Copywrite and Eastern Conferance are 100 times doper"..The ignorant underground fans will attack you for anything "mainstream" u listen to.. I hear it everywhere..I understand about opinions and people may not like alot of mainstream artists. But some people purposely attack people because of what people they listen to..If someone likes shady/Aftermath they are not a dickrider.It is there opinion..
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while this is in the wrong section its a good topic but one we've been over many times...i agree though...i like a lot of mainstream but i like more underground...although i dont like the underground shit most like...im into atmosphere, buck 65, etc...but then again I LIKE JA RULE (yes i said it), and i like DMX, and i like Jay-Z, and Nas....if its dope im cool with it...i just dont like this corny bullshit like nelly...and i hate 50 cent and his "im so gangsta" image...its too played out.
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i hate the underground shit that tries to be all scientific and fucking like using superwords they cant even spell, that lines dont even make sense.
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i hate the underground shit that tries to be all scientific and fucking like using superwords they cant even spell, that lines dont even make sense.
they make perfect sense dude you just gotta have an open mind...i'd rather listen to that than listen to shit about lolo's and AK's and shit...its not that it doesnt make sense its that its too deep and you dont comprehend with it...deep shit is what a lot of people like but its entirely different...most people hate it.
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I LIKE JA RULE (yes i said it)
If I were you, I would never admit that again.
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I LIKE JA RULE (yes i said it)
If I were you, I would never admit that again.
Why? just cuz 90% of the people on this board cant see past the singles he drops...he makes good songs on his albums they just dont get put on the radio and nobody ever listens to them and then he gets criticized for being "soft"...so i will say it again...I LIKE JA RULE
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I hate Ja rule, and I don't even listen to his shit singles, much less any crap that don't become a single. Sorry but I can no longer trust your opinion. and that goes for all who like ja rule.
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i second that acgrundy, i cant trust ur opinion either when u bumpin some ja rule. when you say that 90% of the board cant see past the singles he drops, man too bad its because hes dropped like 10 consecutive wack singles, what the fuck does that say about him. man i was listening to atmosphere and all them like 5 years back, back when underground hip hop was in a good state, with all these guys starting to come up and release good shit, and then now its fucking saturated with all these backpack people trying to spit out any scientific word that fucking rhymes. shit just gets mad repetetive, when thats all you hear.
rasco said it best "It's like, how in the hell do these cats even sell? Be spittin big words your ass can't even spell"
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Aight... First off, I am gonna come out sayin' hip hop is hip hop whether its mainstream or underground..This whole commercial hatin' shit gotta stop. The catagories should be Dope/Wack rappers, and should not be catagorized on how many units they sell.Flashback to the beginin of hip hop to about 96'. Notice there wasn't really a distinct split between "Shiny suit rap"/Underground shit. Hip hop was hip hop back then. Either you were dope or wack. I wish it was like that.. There is so much hatin' on Eminem cuz he 'sold out' in there eyes. Why hate on him when he is better than 95 percent of whats on the radio right now.Think about this, what if you were like Eminem.You came from the bottom, sellin records out of ya trunk or what not.Would you be like "Oh im gonna be underground forever cuz they are doper and be broke my whole life". Of course you wouldn't.. You would want to be at the top. Nobody goes through life wanting to be at the bottom. Yeah there are dope lyricists in both of the imaginary worlds of 'mainstream' and 'underground'..I am a fan of the dope lyricists...If you go to a site like UGHH.com and check there forums. You cannot post there about a mainstream artist or u will get attacked with shit like "Oh he sold out" or "Copywrite and Eastern Conferance are 100 times doper"..The ignorant underground fans will attack you for anything "mainstream" u listen to.. I hear it everywhere..I understand about opinions and people may not like alot of mainstream artists. But some people purposely attack people because of what people they listen to..If someone likes shady/Aftermath they are not a dickrider.It is there opinion..
I agree 100%.
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If you dont understand the music, it doesn't mean its tight, nor wack. Pickup a book kids, build up on your vocabulary. And it's not only underground rappers who spit 'big/scientific' words, eminem does it all the time, when he raps about pills or drugs, kurupt and rosco always throw around that 'psychoschematic, automatic, static, bubonic, supersonic' shit all the time. Don't hate on an emcees ability to use 'superwords' to express his feelings, instead of spittin at a 3rd grade reading level, goddamn what hip-hop has come to nowadays...
*leaves thread bumping eyedea - music music*
I'll be writing till I'm dead or maybe till I'm alive
All the emptiness I've bled has only helped me survive
Something melted inside when the tones hit my pulse
And stifled the idle eagerness to grow into my clothes
No one that I know is any longer good at actin'
Like they comprehend the motive uncoated to feed the corroded passion
Actually needs to stay eye level with the rest
That's the least I deserve for the love that I've shed
I've trudged through the sediment in search of the rhythm
Dove soul first to bathe nude in its abyss
Paid dues and made music my religion
Now I listen, close my eyes, and forget I even exist
I sing a bastard's tune, inspired by the noise
The ship made before it sank and was finally destroyed
I flaunt the grin of a man made for disguising a boy
Who tried to avoid showing the cry in his voice
But there's something special about the notes that he hears
Those scales are redemption, unraveling repressed memories
And when he breathes, a new energy enters and consumes him
To heal his wounds and unseal his doom
If only I could make you understand
But words are just words so I can't
The universe's deepest art form keeps my heart warm with influence
I tell ya
Ain't nothing quite as beautiful as Music
To be an angel, you gotta earn your wings
To control your own, you gotta burn your strings
To hit blackjack, you gotta turn a king
But to live forever, all you gotta do is learn to sing
I get a pleasure that's inevitably immeasurable
And I won't let it be rejected by no man
Why does it have to be so damn difficult
To live in the frame of a game that will slit your throat?
But I've dug in the mud in search of the drum
Dove soul first to bathe nude in its abyss
Stayed true to the music, now my favorite thing to do is
Close my eyes and forget that I even exist
I hold this fistful of degenerate ideas
For every genius that was murdered in the name of Jesus
Still deaf to the bells that claimed to free us
But I pay homage to my melody ęcause she's the sweetest
The core of our spirit is naked
The form of its lyrics are sacred
Blanketed by the original sound of the inner vibrations
I'm floating on the soft clouds of positive creation
See, I can look at a painting and admire the colors
Or appreciate any type of art that I discover
But what I dig's invisible
It's my teacher and I'm its student
I tell ya
Ain't nothing quite as beautiful as Music
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I like what I like. I don't even think about how popular it is. The only thing I won't do is bump a popular song in my car. It's too cliche.
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If you dont understand the music, it doesn't mean its tight, nor wack. Pickup a book kids, build up on your vocabulary. And it's not only underground rappers who spit 'big/scientific' words, eminem does it all the time, when he raps about pills or drugs, kurupt and rosco always throw around that 'psychoschematic, automatic, static, bubonic, supersonic' shit all the time. Don't hate on an emcees ability to use 'superwords' to express his feelings, instead of spittin at a 3rd grade reading level, goddamn what hip-hop has come to nowadays...
PUHHHHleeze with this patronizing Bullshit. You KNOW if I say it's patronizing, it must be patronizing because I patronize people all the time.
Anyways, the reason people have a problem with rappers that use 10 dollar words has nothing to do with "not understanding" it. Please. I can understand anything they want to throw at me. The problem is, these motherfuckers are spitting shit like that to TRY and sound smart. A talented rapper doesn't need to rhyme 20 long ass words to sound intelligent. "Blubonic schitzophrenic hydroponic supersonic"... fuck that. Half the time the shit Kurupt spits when he uses that shit doesn't even work anyways. You're telling us to pick up a dictionary, I know what the fuck the words mean, the problem is half the time Kurupt don't. And all these 'conscious' rappers are so fucking full of themselves it's sickening. Why is Rass Kass any more of a scholar on a subject than I or you are? Fuck that. Nobody made him spokesman. Sure, I don't mind him expressing his opinion on something, but we shouldn't hold him up to the light and say he's intelligent, or any more than any normal person is, just because he uses long words. Case in point, he said some shit in that song about the history of the world about the nose being shot off of the Sphinx, when in reality, that never happened, it's just him talking shit about stuff he doesn't know half as much as he thinks he does about.
My point: The problem isn't we're too stupid, the problem is they're patronizing us with that long word bullshit.
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none of them are trying to sound smart...its just their state of mind...its like if you read a book...if its all just basic shit, no detail, its boring...if you put detail, bigger words, it makes the story/songs more interesting...i dont wanna listen to some basic shit...i want something that will let me turn that cd off and feel like i have stimulated my mind...even if just for a second...not something that will make me feel dumber after i listen to it...if i wanted that i wouldnt've blocked AG on AIM
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Fix your goddamn avatar you inconsiderate motherfucker.
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no, every genre of music has a mainstream and underground, so why not hip-hop?!
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Fix your goddamn avatar you inconsiderate motherfucker.
LOL
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A lot of MCs that use "big words" frequently do it just for the sake of using them to sound more intelligent. Canibus is the perfect example of it.
I put a curse on your name, bombard your brain
With gamma x-rays till you burst into flames
With the scientifically quantifiable megalomaniacal
Viable style, it's like trying to ride a bull
Or even worse...
It's legibly unimaginable, mathematically incalculable
Inextricably infalible
Let's not forget utterly impossible or
Morally unsermountable to assume that I could lose if I battled you
Give me a break.
Rakim and Gza are MCs with extensive vocabularies but don't seem to force them.
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it's completely pointless to judge rappers by how known they are or how much they sell and I guess most people know that..
I LIKE JA RULE
i hate 50 cent and his "im so gangsta" image...its too played out.
both 50 and Ja claim gangsta, the only difference is Ja's never been one
and u say the other reason u hate 50 for is he ain't got no lyrical skill.. is that what u bump Ja for..? lyrical skill?
u don't make any sense
as for tha 'Ja hatin' in general.. if a fool like Ja who clowned himself big time in videos, interviews, disstracks, stricktly RnB singles etc and has been bitin Pac more than anybody else ever.. manages to have a few aight tracks on his album.. u can't expect people to say let's forget about all his bullshit, enjoy these tracks and give the bitch props for them..
even if he had a good track on his album the lyrics and everything wouldn't mean shit to me considering what a fuckin joke Ja is..
plus it ain't even like that.. i had pain is love for example and the whole album is wack
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both 50 and Ja claim gangsta, the only difference is Ja's never been one
I take it you were raised with Ja? You know him personally, right? LMAO. Get over it 50 Fan. Just because your favorite artist says he's a busta, you don't need to hop on the boat. Some of you people need to get a mind of your own. 50 and Ja are equally as "fake." If they both were so gangsta, they'd have killed each other already. At least Ja has had 50 shanked and Proof jumped, what has 50 done?
Anyway, sometimes the Vocab Rappers get boring. It's not that we don't understand, it's just that it makes no sense. Why throw a bunch of words together to sound intelligent? It's pointless. For the exception of E-40's album, all the albums in my sig are perfect examples of great underground lyricism.
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I take it you were raised with Ja? You know him personally, right? LMAO. Get over it 50 Fan. Just because your favorite artist says he's a busta, you don't need to hop on the boat. Some of you people need to get a mind of your own. 50 and Ja are equally as "fake." If they both were so gangsta, they'd have killed each other already.
first of props on that funny name u gave me.. "sgv tha undadogg"..
as for 50.. please get over that "do u know him personally" bs.. did u know Pac personally? how come u called him a busta several times..
u even called the Lox bustas and they do have credibility..
and I doubt u are stupid enough to seriously expect 50 to shoot Ja if he was a real G..
didn't Lynch (just one of 1000 examples) have beef with people who are still alive.. is he (are they all) a busta in your eyes?
I called Ja a fake before I knew he had beef with 50 it ain't about being a 50 fan or not
At least Ja has had 50 shanked and Proof jumped, what has 50 done?
that's the point.. if u got money/homies.. u can have people jumped.. it still doesn't make u shit
plus they didn't even manage to hurt Proof
as for 50.. he robbed and beat Ja twice.. and he did it himself
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scientific lyricism, as someone refered to it, is in fact a very slipery road, some rappers can express their thoughts in a cristal clear way, when the listener can understand exactly what the rapper is trying to tell, other rappers with lack of expresion abillities or ones who are for some reason lyriclly lazy, simply compile a collection of high language frazes and expresions using their undenieable vocab, but in fact, make no thematic sence, we all have heared the so called "deep" tracks after listening to which u have a wierd feeling nothing was told, either u convince youself shit was too damn deep for u to understand. So basicly both the listener both the rapper should always "watch" the lyrics and see wheather something actually stands behind them.
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ja would fall into the wack catagory for me
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Of course they try to sound smart when they words like that , and I agree with Trauma , its fucking sickening .
The thing is : good music is good music , music that makes you feel something...and truth be told , most hip hop ( and I mean all hip hop , underground and mainstream ) brings SHIT nowadays .. and It`s not a lie , only a few albums this year has been dope , and thats fucking sad ... Your favorite rappers are ruining hip hop ( thinks about shady fam , murder inc , nelly , p-didd +++++ )
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as for 50.. please get over that "do u know him personally" bs.. did u know Pac personally? how come u called him a busta several times..
u even called the Lox bustas and they do have credibility..
and I doubt u are stupid enough to seriously expect 50 to shoot Ja if he was a real G..
didn't Lynch (just one of 1000 examples) have beef with people who are still alive.. is he (are they all) a busta in your eyes?
I called Ja a fake before I knew he had beef with 50 it ain't about being a 50 fan or not
that's the point.. if u got money/homies.. u can have people jumped.. it still doesn't make u shit
plus they didn't even manage to hurt Proof
as for 50.. he robbed and beat Ja twice.. and he did it himself
I've called Pac a busta for being Suge's puppet. As for the Lox, Styles is a grimey muthafucka. I'm not sure about Donatello and the other moron though.
But, when you claim to be hardcore(Pac, 50 etc) and you don't handle what you say, to me you're a busta. Someone like Lynch never claims to be some Super Thug. Hell, he even talks about his set telling him to stop banging and just stay busting. Bad example.
Ja may not have done the dirt, but he had it handled, that's all that matters.
Lets save this for another thread, and not ruin this one.
Underground heads need to respect mainstream heads, and mainstream heads need to respect underground heads. It's simple as that. If you like Clubbin' music, more power to you, can't nobody knock that. If you like to vibe to some backpack shit, handle it. Do your do. I bump it all. From Underground to Jiggy.
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I've called Pac a busta for being Suge's puppet. As for the Lox, Styles is a grimey muthafucka. I'm not sure about Donatello and the other moron though.
But, when you claim to be hardcore(Pac, 50 etc) and you don't handle what you say, to me you're a busta. Someone like Lynch never claims to be some Super Thug. Hell, he even talks about his set telling him to stop banging and just stay busting. Bad example.
Ja may not have done the dirt, but he had it handled, that's all that matters.
Lets save this for another thread, and not ruin this one.
Underground heads need to respect mainstream heads, and mainstream heads need to respect underground heads. It's simple as that. If you like Clubbin' music, more power to you, can't nobody knock that. If you like to vibe to some backpack shit, handle it. Do your do. I bump it all. From Underground to Jiggy.
seems like u recently changed ur oppinion on Styles alot.. as for Lynch, he's not a bad example, i ain't talking about bangin Lynch doesn't want to be a banger but I'm talking about him sayin he'll smoke anyone who'd try and front but m sane for example is still alive cuz Lynch ain't taking him/the beef serious like he said on Lynch By Inch.. same about 50 plus in the position he's in right now he can't just kill Ja anyway even if he was afraid of what Ja might do cuz he might aswell go straight to jail for good after that
in beef everybody's making threads and mostly it doesn't happen the way they claim it would on wax.. if somebody who would never do it anyway made these threads it would make him a busta but 50 has reasons not to do stupid shit like killing people being who he is right now.. he did shit like that in the past though plus he done whooped Ja's ass and yes it does matter if u do it yourself or not.. if u say ima fuck beat the shit outta u and send ur people to do it u didn't do shit and u lied.. if u say ima beat the shit outta u and go and do it then u kept ur promise.. so how can u say it doesn't matter
now we can save the rest for another thread..
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The problem with a lot of underground rappers is that they lack personality. It's just straight similes/multies with songs that are pointless. Take Copywrite for example. I heard a song of his & thought it had great lyrics. Then I downloaded a few more of his songs hey all sounded the same.
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DAAMN trauma, you going at me like i'm a kurupt fan, I ain't. Forgot who said it, but yes, anyone can use 'superwords' but those who use it in a correct manner, shouldn't receive criticism for it. Those who do should, for instance, canabis(not a fan), uses 3 continuous 'superwords' back-to-back, which hurts his flow extremely(thats why he doesn't have one). Even canabis, recognizes now that in the day he was on another planet with his vocabulary, and that's why he doesn't use them anymore. Also anyone can write a multie, but not everyone can string together 3 or 4 multies back to back, while not forcing them. Give credit where credit's due.
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^^ I never said long words were bad, I just said that most rappers I've heard use them were forcing them, trying to sound condescending or intelligent. I think you can say a hell of a lot more with simple words, though, because a lot has to do with flow. Case in point?
"One, two, Three & to the Four
Snoop Doggy Dogg & Dr. Dre is at the Door"
Simplest fucking POSSIBLE rhyme, and one of the tightest things ever said on wax. Why? Emotion... Beat... Flow... Charisma... everything that makes a great rapper a great rapper. SHIT lyrics. Vanilla Ice was tighter than that lyrically... but when that shit dropped, it blew everybody away because Snoop was the shit.
Or, look at Rock... rock since the 50's has been using simple simple lyrics, and getting incredible emotion & love from fans over it. Paul McCartney had a song called "Maybe I'm Amazed"... 3 simple words, but it's genius, because his answer to why he was acting the way he was, was that "Maybe I'm amazed", just thinking about the meaning and possibilities of that 1 phrase made an entire song, and a #1 hit.