West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on November 16, 2003, 06:21:47 PM
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It's true.
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Some do, some don't. Some are descendants of eastern Europeans, particularly the Khazzar tribe which converted to Judaism in the 8th century.
P.S. It's not modern-day Jews, but modern-day Israelis.
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Some do, some don't. Some are descendants of eastern Europeans, particularly the Khazzar tribe which converted to Judaism in the 8th century.
P.S. It's not modern-day Jews, but modern-day Israelis.
excellent point in regards to the Khazzars, although based on the readings that i have done, the Khazzars account for alot of modern Jews
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The modern day Jews, who are Jews by blood, are the Decendends of the Biblical Sons of Jacob(Israel), though for the known part of only one of the tribes, the Jewda(Jacob's son) tribe (therefore we're called Jews). All the other tribes were supposeblly lost. Some people decide to convert to Judaism for all kinds of reasons, It's a very long and tiring process, and even when you're done, and converted, and u can produce Jews to the world(in Case you're a woman), u yourself still are not considered a Jew but a Gior(from the word Giur- Convertion to Judasim), what Im basicly saying is that there is a big diffrence between Jews' by blood and converted Jews(who in fact aren't Jews).
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The modern day Jews, who are Jews by blood, are the Decendends of the Biblical Sons of Jacob(Israel), though for the known part of only one of the tribes, the Jewda(Jacob's son) tribe (therefore we're called Jews). All the other tribes were supposeblly lost. Some people decide to convert to Judaism for all kinds of reasons, It's a very long and tiring process, and even when you're done, and converted, and u can produce Jews to the world(in Case you're a woman), u yourself still are not considered a Jew but a Gior(from the word Giur- Convertion to Judasim), what Im basicly saying is that there is a big diffrence between Jews' by blood and converted Jews(who in fact aren't Jews).
Yup...
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I've went through this before, but here goes again.
In the bible, Abraham was a great man, that's about all you need to know about him, it sums it up perfectly. He couldn't have children until very late in life, when he finally had 1 son, after praying for years that he could have children to pass along his lineage.
As the boy grew older, Abraham was commanded by an angel to kill his 1 son as a sacrifice to god. Abraham was such a devout man, he was at the brink of killing his son (had him sprawn out on the rock that rests under the Temple Mount in Jerusalem), when an angel appeared and told Abraham he didn't have to kill his son, Abraham instead sacrificed a symbolic lamb tangled in the thorns nearby.
Anyways, as a reward for Abraham's obedience (he was willing to sacrifice the only thing he had ever wanted more than anything in the world simply because God had told him to), Abraham was given the Abrahamic Covenant with God. God told him that everyone who entered heaven would be one of his seed.
In short: Jews will simply claim (if they're versed in the old testament) that anyone saved by God today is a descendant of Abraham. They believe this because the bible says it right there in black and white, so to them, there's no way a muslim can be a descendant of Abraham.
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I've went through this before, but here goes again.
In the bible, Abraham was a great man, that's about all you need to know about him, it sums it up perfectly. He couldn't have children until very late in life, when he finally had 1 son, after praying for years that he could have children to pass along his lineage.
As the boy grew older, Abraham was commanded by an angel to kill his 1 son as a sacrifice to god. Abraham was such a devout man, he was at the brink of killing his son (had him sprawn out on the rock that rests under the Temple Mount in Jerusalem), when an angel appeared and told Abraham he didn't have to kill his son, Abraham instead sacrificed a symbolic lamb tangled in the thorns nearby.
Anyways, as a reward for Abraham's obedience (he was willing to sacrifice the only thing he had ever wanted more than anything in the world simply because God had told him to), Abraham was given the Abrahamic Covenant with God. God told him that everyone who entered heaven would be one of his seed.
In short: Jews will simply claim (if they're versed in the old testament) that anyone saved by God today is a descendant of Abraham. They believe this because the bible says it right there in black and white, so to them, there's no way a muslim can be a descendant of Abraham.
Yes, you're right, there's no way a muslim is going to heaven because some terrorists do the shit they do. But of course Hitler will be in heaven right next to Stalin and Bush. ::)
By the way, I hope you know that muslims descend from the line of Ishmael, Abraham's other son.
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also true, Muslims do decend from Ishmael(Abraham's son with his egyption slave Hagar), in the old testament his seeds are called Ishmaelites, god promissed to Hagar after she was deported that a great nation will come out of her son...
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By the way, I hope you know that muslims descend from the line of Ishmael, Abraham's other son.
even white muslims like infinite? :D
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By the way, I hope you know that muslims descend from the line of Ishmael, Abraham's other son.
even white muslims like infinite? :D
Nope. Neither are Black Muslims.
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so sandnigga was wrong 8)
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so sandnigga was wrong 8)
How?
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because he said muslims descend from someone, and they dont..
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because he said muslims descend from someone, and they dont..
I think he meant Muslims in the Middle East. I could be wrong however. I can't speak for him.
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yes, and my other point is.. muslims arent a race... you can "opt in" to being a muslim
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yes, and my other point is.. muslims arent a race... you can "opt in" to being a muslim
Understood.
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I've went through this before, but here goes again.
In the bible, Abraham was a great man, that's about all you need to know about him, it sums it up perfectly. He couldn't have children until very late in life, when he finally had 1 son, after praying for years that he could have children to pass along his lineage.
As the boy grew older, Abraham was commanded by an angel to kill his 1 son as a sacrifice to god. Abraham was such a devout man, he was at the brink of killing his son (had him sprawn out on the rock that rests under the Temple Mount in Jerusalem), when an angel appeared and told Abraham he didn't have to kill his son, Abraham instead sacrificed a symbolic lamb tangled in the thorns nearby.
Anyways, as a reward for Abraham's obedience (he was willing to sacrifice the only thing he had ever wanted more than anything in the world simply because God had told him to), Abraham was given the Abrahamic Covenant with God. God told him that everyone who entered heaven would be one of his seed.
In short: Jews will simply claim (if they're versed in the old testament) that anyone saved by God today is a descendant of Abraham. They believe this because the bible says it right there in black and white, so to them, there's no way a muslim can be a descendant of Abraham.
Yes, you're right, there's no way a muslim is going to heaven because some terrorists do the shit they do. But of course Hitler will be in heaven right next to Stalin and Bush. ::)
By the way, I hope you know that muslims descend from the line of Ishmael, Abraham's other son.
Honestly, you're a mental midget. I was giving an argument a Jew could use, I'm not Jewish. I realize it's impossible for you to think as if you were someone else, or see something from someone else's position, but that's what I was attempting to put across. If you read the bible, to a Jew, that is how they would interpret it. Please don't respond when big boys are talking, you simply are in over your head on this one.
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You fuckin idiot. If you're gonna take someone else's position, at least get your fuckin facts straight before you add your opinion. You said that Jews could argue that no muslim could possibly go to heaven, and that only descendants of Abraham could. When in fact muslims are descendants of Abraham. There goes your whole fuckin argument. Now eat a dick because being the ignorant bitch that you are (seeing that you didn't/couldn't respond in that thread about the Patriot Act and stopped replying after I showed that your argument about spending in Kosovo and Iraq were bullshit lies) you are actually the one that needs to realize that shit is way over your empty head.
At least you gave us all a good laugh with your theory on "WMDs do exist. We just can't find them. Just because we can't prove it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Why don't you prove to me they dont exist"....LMFAO. Classic.
Now go and do some research so you can reply to the shit you couldn't to earlier. When you're in a hole of shit, try to get out little by little, instead of digging yourself deeper in. In other words, start posting shit that's actually true and use some common sense. LMAO@ They exist we just can't prove it.
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I'll clear it up, the muslim religion was based in the middle east, at first this was a paganic religion it's monoteistic direction was brought by Muhamed, but even up untill that point it existed just in a differend form, now the people who were the original Muslims were those same Ishmaelite tribes in the Arabic Paninsula.
Islam is not a rase it's a religion, and it's the easiest one to convert into, u have to say one sentence to become Muslim, I was talkin' bout the Original Muslims and about the background Islam is based upon.
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I'll clear it up, the muslim religion was based in the middle east, at first this was a paganic religion it's monoteistic direction was brought by Muhamed, but even up untill that point it existed just in a differend form, now the people who were the original Muslims were those same Ishmaelite tribes in the Arabic Paninsula.
Islam is not a rase it's a religion, and it's the easiest one to convert into, u have to say one sentence to become Muslim, I was talkin' bout the Original Muslims and about the background Islam is based upon.
One thing wasn't very clear to me; are you saying that a form of Islam existed before Mohammed? If you are, that is completely false. There was no Islam before Mohammed, Islam began with Mohammed. That's why the belief in Mohammed is one of the main principles of the religion.
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You fuckin idiot. If you're gonna take someone else's position, at least get your fuckin facts straight before you add your opinion. You said that Jews could argue that no muslim could possibly go to heaven, and that only descendants of Abraham could. When in fact muslims are descendants of Abraham.
Hey Genius. JEWS DONT BELIEVE ALL MUSLIMS ARE DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM. Damn. Like I Geezy just said, it's not a race, whereas Jews are ALL descendants of Abraham, those who aren't are symbolicly adopted into Abraham's lineage. Jews would never believe that a descendant of Abraham who wasn't jewish would be saved! I didn't say it was RIGHT, I just said it's what Jews believe, because that's what's in the BIBLE. Slow your roll, as I said, you're way over your head on this one.
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I'll clear it up, the muslim religion was based in the middle east, at first this was a paganic religion it's monoteistic direction was brought by Muhamed, but even up untill that point it existed just in a differend form, now the people who were the original Muslims were those same Ishmaelite tribes in the Arabic Paninsula.
Islam is not a rase it's a religion, and it's the easiest one to convert into, u have to say one sentence to become Muslim, I was talkin' bout the Original Muslims and about the background Islam is based upon.
One thing wasn't very clear to me; are you saying that a form of Islam existed before Mohammed? If you are, that is completely false. There was no Islam before Mohammed, Islam began with Mohammed. That's why the belief in Mohammed is one of the main principles of the religion.
Man, honestly, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Let me give you some lessons in English. He's clearly, to the educated, saying that at first, in the middle east, there were Paganic religions, Muhammad took that religion and turned it into what is now modern day Islam. Are you even Muslim? All Muslims know that Muhammad didn't invent the Islam religion, many muslims consider Islam the original religion.
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I'll clear it up, the muslim religion was based in the middle east, at first this was a paganic religion it's monoteistic direction was brought by Muhamed, but even up untill that point it existed just in a differend form, now the people who were the original Muslims were those same Ishmaelite tribes in the Arabic Paninsula.
Islam is not a rase it's a religion, and it's the easiest one to convert into, u have to say one sentence to become Muslim, I was talkin' bout the Original Muslims and about the background Islam is based upon.
One thing wasn't very clear to me; are you saying that a form of Islam existed before Mohammed? If you are, that is completely false. There was no Islam before Mohammed, Islam began with Mohammed. That's why the belief in Mohammed is one of the main principles of the religion.
no it's not false it's a historical fact in fact, the holly black stone in mecca(if not meddina, I may be mistaken as for the city) which remains Holly to Islam even these days was one of the things that pre-monoteistic pre-muhamed Paganic form of Islam worshiped(it kinda reminded the ancsient Egyption religion). This Muhamed-menifested Islam in fact was directed at the Paganic-Islam worshipers that's why it's impact was so instant.
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About the Mohammed/Pagan topic:
Paganism was the dominant religion, then Mohammed destroyed it. He didn't "re-direct" paganism to become monotheistic, he converted all the Pagans (or Killed them ;D). They are 2 different religions, Islam did not derive from Paganism at all.
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Trauma you clearly have no fuckin clue about anything. Muhammed didn't turn paganic religions into Islam, he spoke out against paganism, and informed people about there being One Almighty God. In addition, muslims don't belive that Islam is the original religion. We accept and believe what happened before, we acknowledge the Torah and the Bible to be holy books, we believe in all the prophets that came before Muhammed, including Jesus; the only thing is that we consider the other religions to be incomplete because they don't include the life of Muhammed, who to us was God's last messenger.
Please stay out of topics you don't know shit about. I already schooled you on the patriot act discussion, and the spending bill one, when will you learn you fool.
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About the Mohammed/Pagan topic:
Paganism was the dominant religion, then Mohammed destroyed it. He didn't "re-direct" paganism to become monotheistic, he converted all the Pagans (or Killed them ;D). They are 2 different religions, Islam did not derive from Paganism at all.
destroy
I never said Muhamed was pro-paganic he wasn't, to re-direct a paganic religion into a monotheistic one is the same as to destroy the paganic one and replace it with a monotheistic one, so the arguement is not about a technical describtion, but what proves Islam did not totally alienate from it's origin, is that black stone(I think it's called Kabah or something) it's still considered holly, and another thing, acording to some historions Allah was actually one of the many gods that the earlly form of Islam worshiped, his massage to Muhamad was what rendered him as the only god, or may be as the god of all gods(as some chose to acsept it at first).
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Trauma you clearly have no fuckin clue about anything. Muhammed didn't turn paganic religions into Islam, he spoke out against paganism, and informed people about there being One Almighty God. In addition, muslims don't belive that Islam is the original religion. We accept and believe what happened before, we acknowledge the Torah and the Bible to be holy books, we believe in all the prophets that came before Muhammed, including Jesus; the only thing is that we consider the other religions to be incomplete because they don't include the life of Muhammed, who to us was God's last messenger.
Please stay out of topics you don't know shit about. I already schooled you on the patriot act discussion, and the spending bill one, when will you learn you fool.
Thank you.
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About the Mohammed/Pagan topic:
Paganism was the dominant religion, then Mohammed destroyed it. He didn't "re-direct" paganism to become monotheistic, he converted all the Pagans (or Killed them ;D). They are 2 different religions, Islam did not derive from Paganism at all.
destroy
I never said Muhamed was pro-paganic he wasn't, to re-direct a paganic religion into a monotheistic one is the same as to destroy the paganic one and replace it with a monotheistic one, so the arguement is not about a technical describtion, but what proves Islam did not totally alienate from it's origin, is that black stone(I think it's called Kabah or something) it's still considered holly, and another thing, acording to some historions Allah was actually one of the many gods that the earlly form of Islam worshiped, his massage to Muhamad was what rendered him as the only god, or may be as the god of all gods(as some chose to acsept it at first).
The Kabaa stone is part of the Hajj to Mecca. It is used so one can get a feeling of Mohammed's life (I think). And yes, Allah was one of the Gods worshipped but remember, Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. Muslims, Christians & Jews all worship the same God.
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Christianity and Judaism had pagans convert, does that mean Judaism and Christianity have paganic origins? NO
Muhammed said to the pagans that it was wrong for them to worship all these gods, and told them about the one, almighty god. To Jews and Christians he simply said that he was the last of God's messengers. Islam, Christianity, and Judaism have nothing to do with paganism just because pagans converted into the religions. The 3 religions are tied together by the prophets and the one god. Jews accept all prophets before Jesus, Christians accept the same prophets including Jesus, and Muslims accept the same prophets Jews do in addition to Jesus+Muhammed. We believe the Torah and Bible to be holy books, but we consider them to be incomplete because of the exclusion of Muhammed's being. Also, the Bible has been re-written so many times that it's lost some truth. The Quran hasn't and can't be revised (I'm not sure, but I think this is true for the Torah as well)
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About the Mohammed/Pagan topic:
Paganism was the dominant religion, then Mohammed destroyed it. He didn't "re-direct" paganism to become monotheistic, he converted all the Pagans (or Killed them ;D). They are 2 different religions, Islam did not derive from Paganism at all.
destroy
I never said Muhamed was pro-paganic he wasn't, to re-direct a paganic religion into a monotheistic one is the same as to destroy the paganic one and replace it with a monotheistic one, so the arguement is not about a technical describtion, but what proves Islam did not totally alienate from it's origin, is that black stone(I think it's called Kabah or something) it's still considered holly, and another thing, acording to some historions Allah was actually one of the many gods that the earlly form of Islam worshiped, his massage to Muhamad was what rendered him as the only god, or may be as the god of all gods(as some chose to acsept it at first).
The Kabaa stone is part of the Hajj to Mecca. It is used so one can get a feeling of Mohammed's life (I think). And yes, Allah was one of the Gods worshipped but remember, Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. Muslims, Christians & Jews all worship the same God.
yea,you're almost accurate, Lah' is the Arabic word for GOD, AL LAH is it's articled form, something like "The God" , some claim that the articled form apeared only after he was proclaimed as the only god. Another thing though, the fact Kabaa is part of the hajj only proves they still feel atouched in some way to their origin
(Kabaa was considered to be very holly by the Paganic-soon to be -Muslims).
Well Judaism had all kinds of people convert into it yet it was originated Monotheisticly, Christianity was forced uppon some Pagans...
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"Well Judaism had all kinds of people convert into it yet it was originated Monotheisticly."
This is true for Christianity and Islam as well. So, since some pagans converted to Judaism, does that mean Judaism has "pagan roots"? No.
You claimed at first Islam was a paganic religion, and Muhammed brought that change. What I'm saying is, there was NO ISLAM prior to Muhammed. Those were just what you claimed they were, pagans. Just because pagans converted to these religions doesn't make the religions have pagan roots. Because with that argument, your statement would be true for almost all religions.
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People did worship God in the Kabah, but later those people started worsipping idols,icons,etc. However, that Kabah was in the city of Ur, not Mecca. That Kabah was destroyed (the idols and icons were destroyed by Abraham himself, furious at the townspeople for worshipping the idols). Then, after Abraham had his two sons, he "rebuilt" the Kabah at a different location (Mecca...in those days called Bacca).
So, I guess I can see why you thought that about the paganic roots, but the "story" shows that it wasn't even the same Kabah.
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Christianity and Judaism had pagans convert, does that mean Judaism and Christianity have paganic origins? NO
Muhammed said to the pagans that it was wrong for them to worship all these gods, and told them about the one, almighty god. To Jews and Christians he simply said that he was the last of God's messengers. Islam, Christianity, and Judaism have nothing to do with paganism just because pagans converted into the religions. The 3 religions are tied together by the prophets and the one god. Jews accept all prophets before Jesus, Christians accept the same prophets including Jesus, and Muslims accept the same prophets Jews do in addition to Jesus+Muhammed. We believe the Torah and Bible to be holy books, but we consider them to be incomplete because of the exclusion of Muhammed's being. Also, the Bible has been re-written so many times that it's lost some truth. The Quran hasn't and can't be revised (I'm not sure, but I think this is true for the Torah as well)
one minor correction... Islam only believe in the Bible's old testament, which is equal to the Torah... the new testament is not a religious book, it have been written only by humans and have not God directly or indirectly involved in any way...
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Let me clarify. Islam does accept Jesus is what I meant, and that's not included in the Old Testament. So we believe in the Torah and Jesus. :)
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Let me clarify. Islam does accept Jesus is what I meant, and that's not included in the Old Testament. So we believe in the Torah and Jesus. :)
aight.. i see your point
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"Well Judaism had all kinds of people convert into it yet it was originated Monotheisticly."
This is true for Christianity and Islam as well. So, since some pagans converted to Judaism, does that mean Judaism has "pagan roots"? No.
You claimed at first Islam was a paganic religion, and Muhammed brought that change. What I'm saying is, there was NO ISLAM prior to Muhammed. Those were just what you claimed they were, pagans. Just because pagans converted to these religions doesn't make the religions have pagan roots. Because with that argument, your statement would be true for almost all religions.
Never said it was a paganic religion, I said it originated from a paganic religion, again people who converted into Judaism aren't considered Jews acording to the Jewish Religion, they are considered Giors(Converted Jews- underlining the absence of Judasim in their blood) The Kabaa stone, no meter how many times it was replaced\ siwtched by a diffrened one had those pre-Muhamed Muslims worshiping it much later(the religious meaning of the Kabaa stone never changed as far as it concenred Muslims both from the pre-Muhamed and post-Muhamed times), Long after the times of Abraham, and closer to Muhamed's reforms' times.