West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Pillow on September 04, 2002, 10:09:41 AM
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when i got my newspaper this morning it said bush plans to go to all out war with iraq, tony blair or britian said he would gladly help bush...i dont agree with this shit at all, although saddem which is a fucking asshole is very close to having a nucular weapon....this shit is starting to get a lil scary, could break out into WWIII
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Personally, I think that War is inevitable.. If Saddem doesnt let weapons inspectors in or doesnt let them in under the rules that are under the UN sanction then US/Britan can either: attack Iraq, or leave him. and im 110% sure that they wont leave him to make nukes.
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^you wrong
Rumsfeld said even if Saddam let in UN weapon inspectors it would have no effect on war plans
fact is, Israel wants the US to atack Iraq
yall say Iraq has nukes? how do u know? wheres the fuckin proof, Iraq aint GOT SHIT
no nukes, nothing, this whole thing is a farce
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^you wrong
Rumsfeld said even if Saddam let in UN weapon inspectors it would have no effect on war plans
fact is, Israel wants the US to atack Iraq
yall say Iraq has nukes? how do u know? wheres the fuckin proof, Iraq aint GOT SHIT
no nukes, nothing, this whole thing is a farce
how do u kno he doesnt
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^you wrong
Rumsfeld said even if Saddam let in UN weapon inspectors it would have no effect on war plans
fact is, Israel wants the US to atack Iraq
yall say Iraq has nukes? how do u know? wheres the fuckin proof, Iraq aint GOT SHIT
no nukes, nothing, this whole thing is a farce
Could you show me where Donny Rumsfeld said this?
Plans are just plans you know. We have plans for everything. There are papers out there on the proper action to take if aliens invade... Why shouldn't war plans stop?
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The argument for invading Iraq is this. You be the judge.
America's Argument for War
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As part of the cease-fire agreement in 1991 ending the Gulf War, the Iraqi leader agreed to international weapons inspections of his potential use of weapons of mass destruction. Sadaam kicked those inspectors out 4 years ago and have not let them back in since.
Anti-War Argument
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Even if Iraq opened up to inspectors and no weapons of mass destruction were found, would the santions end? According to Louis Farrakan a German man who was a member of the UNSCOM team, a Mr. von Sponeck, and he went and visited some of those sites Iraq and reported that they have no weapons of mass destruction. And if the Sanctions were dropped, they would gladly show the US they have no weapons of mass destruction. But 1.6 million of their people have died since 91 at the hands of the US and the United Kingdom. And they are being bombed in no fly zones that are illegal. So if America is able to put up these no fly zones and deny Iraq the right to defend themselves, then how is Iraq wrong in denying American weapons inspectors? Furthermore, let the people of Iraq overthrow Sadaam if they choose to. But it is not America's place to pick and choose who they want to do business with. They tried to do that recently in Afganistan and it failed miserably.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38183-2002Sep4.html
Some highlights:
"In addition, Iraq is known to have converted crop-dusting gear into a germ-spaying device mounted on helicopters, U.N. files show. It also has developed biowarfare "drop tanks" that can be mounted on Iraq's fastest fighter aircraft."
"Iraq's expanded capabilities appear to offer new ways to terrorize civilian populations, including the cities of Israel, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, among others that could bear the brunt of Iraqi retaliation."
"Former U.N. inspectors say Iraq was only months away from making a crude nuclear device when Operation Desert Storm began."
"Before inspections abruptly ended in 1998, U.N. officials crisscrossed Iraq searching for a rumored new drone that could carry biological and chemical munitions. But not a shred of evidence turned up until Dec. 17 of that year, when British Tornado jets swooped over Iraq's Talil air base southeast of Baghdad and reaped an intelligence bonanza.
Photos of the ruined base revealed rows of the new drones, which Iraq had hidden inside a hangar at the remote base. The aircraft were identified as Czech-made L-29s, a light trainer jet Iraq had purchased years ago and converted to unmanned flight. The tanks for spraying biological and chemical agents appeared to be a unique Iraqi adaptation."
"Iraq has not attempted to hide all of its progress in weapons systems. Last year, at an annual military parade, Iraq displayed two short-range missiles, the Al-Samoud and the Ababil, and mobile launchers..."
"In a declaration to the United Nations in 1995, Iraq acknowledged filling 25 Scud warheads with biowarfare agents, including anthrax spores and deadly botulinum toxin. But despite seven years of intensive inspections, the warheads were never found or accounted for."
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38183-2002Sep4.html
Some highlights:
"In addition, Iraq is known to have converted crop-dusting gear into a germ-spaying device mounted on helicopters, U.N. files show. It also has developed biowarfare "drop tanks" that can be mounted on Iraq's fastest fighter aircraft."
"Iraq's expanded capabilities appear to offer new ways to terrorize civilian populations, including the cities of Israel, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, among others that could bear the brunt of Iraqi retaliation."
"Former U.N. inspectors say Iraq was only months away from making a crude nuclear device when Operation Desert Storm began."
"Before inspections abruptly ended in 1998, U.N. officials crisscrossed Iraq searching for a rumored new drone that could carry biological and chemical munitions. But not a shred of evidence turned up until Dec. 17 of that year, when British Tornado jets swooped over Iraq's Talil air base southeast of Baghdad and reaped an intelligence bonanza.
Photos of the ruined base revealed rows of the new drones, which Iraq had hidden inside a hangar at the remote base. The aircraft were identified as Czech-made L-29s, a light trainer jet Iraq had purchased years ago and converted to unmanned flight. The tanks for spraying biological and chemical agents appeared to be a unique Iraqi adaptation."
"Iraq has not attempted to hide all of its progress in weapons systems. Last year, at an annual military parade, Iraq displayed two short-range missiles, the Al-Samoud and the Ababil, and mobile launchers..."
"In a declaration to the United Nations in 1995, Iraq acknowledged filling 25 Scud warheads with biowarfare agents, including anthrax spores and deadly botulinum toxin. But despite seven years of intensive inspections, the warheads were never found or accounted for."
Essentially, what you are eluding to is that Iraq is wrong for producing weapons for war or resistence. If that is what you are saying, then the US is 100x worse. And the US is also transgressed unfairly against Iraq by setting up no fly zones so Iraq can't defend herself.
The situations are obvious. The US eliminates these countries ability to defend themselves. And then when they are reduced to terrorist tactics, America acts like they are the great satan of the world.
If you really want to put an end to terrorism, give all the terrorist networks 1/6 of the military power the US has. And they would never be reduced to terrorist tactics again!
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Essentially, what you are eluding to is that Iraq is wrong for producing weapons for war or resistence. If that is what you are saying, then the US is 100x worse. And the US is also transgressed unfairly against Iraq by setting up no fly zones so Iraq can't defend herself.
The situations are obvious. The US eliminates these countries ability to defend themselves. And then when they are reduced to terrorist tactics, America acts like they are the great satan of the world.
If you really want to put an end to terrorism, give all the terrorist networks 1/6 of the military power the US has. And they would never be reduced to terrorist tactics again!
How many times has America Gassed it's own people to keep a rebellion down? Never
How many times has America witheld food that was given from the UN from it's starving? Never
How many times has America invaded a sovigern country with the intention of making it, it's own? Never
You don't get it, but Saddam is tyrant. He dosent respect democracy.
He dosent respect life,
He dosent respect the sanctions imposed on him after his failed attempt at taking over the middle east.
I thought the only argument for war was the one you posted above?
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How many times has America Gassed it's own people to keep a rebellion down? Never
How many times has America witheld food that was given from the UN from it's starving? Never
How many times has America invaded a sovigern country with the intention of making it, it's own? Never
You don't get it, but Saddam is tyrant. He dosent respect democracy.
He dosent respect life,
He dosent respect the sanctions imposed on him after his failed attempt at taking over the middle east.
I thought the only argument for war was the one you posted above?
Like Louis Farakkan was saying. Let's put Sadaam on trial and see some real, hard evidence that he gassed his people.
And didn't someone post a couple months ago about an incedent in Texas where the American government gassed it's own people.
America is not over there because Sadaam wants to "take over the world" and kill and starve his people. If that were true, then why do all these other countries disagree with America being there?
America fears and hates any governments that aren't democratic.
America is over there for oil, and to expand it's global market. They want a leader in power that will work with them. Like Musharaff in Afganistan. But you saw how well that worked. Musharaff was quickly assasinated.
It is not America's job to bully the rest of the Nation.
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And the stupidest thing you said was, "How many times has America invaded a soveriegn country with intentions on making it it's own."
Well, I don't know about countries. But definetely terrotories. First America killed the Indians and made the 13 colonies. Then we killed some more Indians and Spanish and expanded Westward. We added the territory of Texas by killing off their people, and stealing land that was legally theirs. President Polk thought it was okay because "God favored America. God Bless America. From sea to shining sea."
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Like Louis Farakkan was saying. Let's put Sadaam on trial and see some real, hard evidence that he gassed his people.
And didn't someone post a couple months ago about an incedent in Texas where the American government gassed it's own people.
America is not over there because Sadaam wants to "take over the world" and kill and starve his people. If that were true, then why do all these other countries disagree with America being there?
America fears and hates any governments that aren't democratic.
America is over there for oil, and to expand it's global market. They want a leader in power that will work with them. Like Musharaff in Afganistan. But you saw how well that worked. Musharaff was quickly assasinated.
It is not America's job to bully the rest of the Nation.
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And the stupidest thing you said was, "How many times has America invaded a soveriegn country with intentions on making it it's own."
Well, I don't know about countries. But definetely and made the 13 terrotories. First America killed the Indians colonies. Then we killed some more Indians and Spanish and expanded Westward. We added the territory of Texas by killing off their people, and stealing land that was legally theirs. President Polk thought it was okay because "God favored America. God Bless America. From sea to shining sea."
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Just wait and see... the next coming months will answer all your questions about Saddam.
It's amazing that you are trying to justify a genocide...
"Iraqi President Saddam Hussein used mustard gas on Kurds in northern Iraq during a 1987-88 campaign known as the Anfal. The worst attack occurred in March 1988 in the Kurdish village of Halabja; a combination of chemical agents including mustard gas, sarin, and possibly VX killed 5,000 people and left 65,000 others facing severe skin and respiratory diseases, abnormal rates of cancer and birth defects, and a devastated environment. Experts say Saddam also launched about 280 smaller-scale chemical attacks against the Kurds."
http://www.terrorismanswers.com/weapons/mustard.html
"BOSTON, MA (April 29, 1993) - For the first time ever, scientists have been able to prove the use of chemical weapons through the analysis of environmental residues taken years after such an attack occurred. In a development that could have far-reaching consequences for the enforcement of the chemical weapons treaty, soil samples taken from bomb craters near a Kurdish village in northern Iraq by a team of forensic scientists have been found to contain trace evidence of nerve gas."
http://www.phrusa.org/research/chemical_weapons/chemiraqgas2.html
I think you wanted to say: It's not Americas job to bully the rest of the WORLD...
Im not even going to dignify the rest of your response, but I'll leave you with this. In America's case that was something that happend hundreds of years ago. How long ago was Iraq?
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::)
Just wait and see... the next coming months will answer all your questions about Saddam.
It's amazing that you are trying to justify a genocide...
"Iraqi President Saddam Hussein used mustard gas on Kurds in northern Iraq during a 1987-88 campaign known as the Anfal. The worst attack occurred in March 1988 in the Kurdish village of Halabja; a combination of chemical agents including mustard gas, sarin, and possibly VX killed 5,000 people and left 65,000 others facing severe skin and respiratory diseases, abnormal rates of cancer and birth defects, and a devastated environment. Experts say Saddam also launched about 280 smaller-scale chemical attacks against the Kurds."
http://www.terrorismanswers.com/weapons/mustard.html
"BOSTON, MA (April 29, 1993) - For the first time ever, scientists have been able to prove the use of chemical weapons through the analysis of environmental residues taken years after such an attack occurred. In a development that could have far-reaching consequences for the enforcement of the chemical weapons treaty, soil samples taken from bomb craters near a Kurdish village in northern Iraq by a team of forensic scientists have been found to contain trace evidence of nerve gas."
http://www.phrusa.org/research/chemical_weapons/chemiraqgas2.html
I think you wanted to say: It's not Americas job to bully the rest of the WORLD...
Im not even going to dignify the rest of your response, but I'll leave you with this. In America's case that was something that happend hundreds of years ago. How long ago was Iraq?
I can't believe your trying to justify America killing 5,000 Iraqi citizens a month through sanctions. Or how America has killed 1.6 million over the last several years.
Not dignify with a response? Anytime someone says that, it means they don't have a proper response.
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aahhhh Englewood
Nobody is denying that Saddam is not a positive man
What we are debating is America's self imposed right to go into countries and destabilize regions, and toppling regimes, simply because they dont like em
I cant believe some of yall are tryin to tell me AMERICA is so fuckin righteous that it is on a higher moral ground than the rest of the world
There is no moral justification, str8 the fuck up, there isnt
George W Bush is calling for the assasination of another human being, am i the only one who finds that fuckin ridicolous??
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aahhhh Englewood
Nobody is denying that Saddam is not a positive man
What we are debating is America's self imposed right to go into countries and destabilize regions, and toppling regimes, simply because they dont like em
I cant believe some of yall are tryin to tell me AMERICA is so fuckin righteous that it is on a higher moral ground than the rest of the world
There is no moral justification, str8 the fuck up, there isnt
George W Bush is calling for the assasination of another human being, am i the only one who finds that fuckin ridicolous??
Exactly. In the Wars of today. Tech and I have repeatedly said that both sides are guilty of wrongdoing. While ya'll try to justify America and Isreal's repeated aggression against weak, defenseless countries.
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Infinite, just leave the U.S. You obviously don't like it here. Just get out, you're not wanted.
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Infinite, just leave the U.S. You obviously don't like it here. Just get out, you're not wanted.
Who is it that doesn't want me hear? Some dork from the WCC board. LMAO!! If Farrakan lives here in peace, I think it's okay for me to be here.
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George W Bush is calling for the assasination of another human being, am i the only one who finds that fuckin ridicolous??
I dont know if you are old enough to remember properly...
But Saddam sent a revenge assination squad to kill George bush SR in 1993.
What goes around comes around...
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Like Louis Farakkan was saying. Let's put Sadaam on trial and see some real, hard evidence that he gassed his people.
And didn't someone post a couple months ago about an incedent in Texas where the American government gassed it's own people.
America is not over there because Sadaam wants to "take over the world" and kill and starve his people. If that were true, then why do all these other countries disagree with America being there?
America fears and hates any governments that aren't democratic.
America is over there for oil, and to expand it's global market. They want a leader in power that will work with them. Like Musharaff in Afganistan. But you saw how well that worked. Musharaff was quickly assasinated.
It is not America's job to bully the rest of the Nation.
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And the stupidest thing you said was, "How many times has America invaded a soveriegn country with intentions on making it it's own."
Well, I don't know about countries. But definetely terrotories. First America killed the Indians and made the 13 colonies. Then we killed some more Indians and Spanish and expanded Westward. We added the territory of Texas by killing off their people, and stealing land that was legally theirs. President Polk thought it was okay because "God favored America. God Bless America. From sea to shining sea."
have u ever travelled to a foreign country? do you have any relatives that are immigrants....?
otherwise cool urself down... u dont know the whole story, every country has problems we are the biggest we get the most attention...
good news travels fast bad news travels faster..... we did a lot of fucked up shit, we do a lotof fucked up shit, but so does a lot of other people.. we also do a lot of good...
go to a foreign country see how they treat their poor. see how they treat their criminals...
see how well their population is doing economically
how well the older generation is living..
then maybe u can have a valid opinion..
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have u ever travelled to a foreign country? do you have any relatives that are immigrants....?
otherwise cool urself down... u dont know the whole story, every country has problems we are the biggest we get the most attention...
good news travels fast bad news travels faster..... we did a lot of fucked up shit, we do a lotof fucked up shit, but so does a lot of other people.. we also do a lot of good...
go to a foreign country see how they treat their poor. see how they treat their criminals...
see how well their population is doing economically
how well the older generation is living..
then maybe u can have a valid opinion..
AMEN BROTHA. Preach On, Preach On. Make me wanna... Make me wanna stomp my feet.
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Like Musharaff in Afganistan. But you saw how well that worked. Musharaff was quickly assasinated.
INFINITE: Quick sidenote
Musharaff is the leader of Pakistan. Not Afghanistan. He is still alive, so thus, unlike you claim, was not assasinated.
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have u ever travelled to a foreign country? do you have any relatives that are immigrants....?
otherwise cool urself down... u dont know the whole story, every country has problems we are the biggest we get the most attention...
good news travels fast bad news travels faster..... we did a lot of fucked up shit, we do a lotof fucked up shit, but so does a lot of other people.. we also do a lot of good...
go to a foreign country see how they treat their poor. see how they treat their criminals...
see how well their population is doing economically
how well the older generation is living..
then maybe u can have a valid opinion..
Err, America treats its criminals more barborously than any other democratic nations in the world. Lets not even go into the "Electric Chair", "Lethal Injection" etc. and Guantanomo Bay.
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I don't know how to do the quote thing on this forum, but Englewood-Quik you said the USA has never invaded a sovereign country with the intention of making its own. Do not make a statement like that without checking the facts (and i'm talking about in recent memory). Don't believe me then do some research on that lovely man Henry Kissinger, then read what happened to Hugo Chavez this year, then rethink your answer.
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I dont know if you are old enough to remember properly...
But Saddam sent a revenge assination squad to kill George bush SR in 1993.
What goes around comes around...
lol @ this dork
yes i remember that, my father was there to hear what Sr. Bush had to say.....
so based on a personal grudge, Bush is justified in leading his nation into war?
LOL
are u tryin to prove YOUR point, or mine? LOL
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I don't know how to do the quote thing on this forum, but Englewood-Quik you said the USA has never invaded a sovereign country with the intention of making its own. Do not make a statement like that without checking the facts (and i'm talking about in recent memory). Don't believe me then do some research on that lovely man Henry Kissinger, then read what happened to Hugo Chavez this year, then rethink your answer.
WORD
especially on the Chavez point
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have u ever travelled to a foreign country? do you have any relatives that are immigrants....?
otherwise cool urself down... u dont know the whole story, every country has problems we are the biggest we get the most attention...
good news travels fast bad news travels faster..... we did a lot of fucked up shit, we do a lotof fucked up shit, but so does a lot of other people.. we also do a lot of good...
go to a foreign country see how they treat their poor. see how they treat their criminals...
see how well their population is doing economically
how well the older generation is living..
then maybe u can have a valid opinion..
no sense whatsoever
see, always trying to justify American aggression instead of admitting wrong in this war on Iraq
You and Englewood are proving mine and Infinites points for us
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no sense whatsoever
see, always trying to justify American aggression instead of admitting wrong in this war on Iraq
You and Englewood are proving mine and Infinites points for us
no sense what so ever?
thats a great reply... ok sarcasm in case u didnt get it..
lets look at it this way.. if i write someting and you just write back that made no sense... what did u really prove to me?
i can give that reply to anything u say, does that mean it in fact made no sense...
ur response was very childish
give me an example of one country that does everything 100% perfect and does not fuck over anyone in the least bit..
u can't... and until u are well travelled and can understand bot sides i dont think anyone here should speak
non of you are well read, well travelled, well learned with few exceptions..
infinite reads a lot but all focused in one direction, he listens to what he agrees with and rejects everything else
the rest of u making these retarded arguements who the hell are u? what do u know?
what gives u the justification to be so certain of ur claims?
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non of you are well read, well travelled, well learned with few exceptions..
actually.....Im pretty well read and well travelled
And i understand both sides of the fence better than alot of people here
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Like Gareefa, war is inevitable. Doesn't mean it's right though.
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aahhhh Englewood
Nobody is denying that Saddam is not a positive man
What we are debating is America's self imposed right to go into countries and destabilize regions, and toppling regimes, simply because they dont like em
I cant believe some of yall are tryin to tell me AMERICA is so fuckin righteous that it is on a higher moral ground than the rest of the world
There is no moral justification, str8 the fuck up, there isnt
George W Bush is calling for the assasination of another human being, am i the only one who finds that fuckin ridicolous??
No moral Justification? Besides saving a populace from it's leader, Im intrested in seeing on how you justify this:
Since 1998 Iraq has been breaking it's agreement with the UNITED NATIONS to have weapons inspectors.
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Like Gareefa, war is inevitable. Doesn't mean it's right though.
It might be, but matter of fact only the UK agreed to help the US
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No moral Justification? Besides saving a populace from it's leader, Im intrested in seeing on how you justify this:
Since 1998 Iraq has been breaking it's agreement with the UNITED NATIONS to have weapons inspectors.
yawn
do u know how many nations have broken agreements with the UN, (the US is among the list)???
Vladimir Putin thinks George Bush is an idiot that will lead his nation into war, so he come over there and invade to save the "populace"
and i find it funny that everyone makes a big deal out of the UN, when some rogue nation is breaking its laws, but when AMerica routinely flaunts its powers, no one says shit
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It might be, but matter of fact only the UK agreed to help the US
Like I said, it doesn't mean it's right. Other nations aren't backing away because they don't agree, just like I don't.
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i just dont get how some people think...
Sadam is a very evil man... he've been the reason of like 50'000 death.. but is USA clean??? american planes have killed 1'600'000 people trying to kill Sadam, have USA the right to do that?? .. its like if Bin Laden concured New York City and started ruling it, he starts killing citicents now and then and manage to kill 50'000 New Yorkers, would it it be rightfull by great britain for example to nuke NY 24/7, killing 1.6 millions citicents ???
oooh.. its not the same thing , is it?? the diffrence now is that YOUR people would die, you yall cant accept it...
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no response??
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no response??
My response...... WORD!! to everything you said. Your on point like ice sickles!