West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: Don Breezio on February 26, 2004, 12:30:16 AM
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i hear people all the time saying things like "real R&B isnt around anymore...now its all beyonce and b2k and r. kelly"....
well....since when is that not real R&B? just because it gets more radio play? i'll be the first to admit i hate beyonce and everything about her, her voice, her looks (i personally think shes not that great looking), and her replay value (none). but that doesnt mean its not real R&B...just because i dont like it....im sure there were tons of people who didnt like keith sweat or jodeci...but nobody will ever say they werent real R&B.
and b2k...why are they not real R&B? just because theyre all teens? seriously listen to their lyrics...they are exactly the same as every other R&B act ever out whether it be r. kelly, musiq soulchild, or marvin gaye...the lyrics really arent any different. people hate on them because they are young. i personally like b2k...yeah the amount of radio play they get is annoying but they get annoyign a lot less fast than most of the shit on the radio.
some people say there is NO real R&B anymore...so since when do R. Kelly, Jagged Edge, Maxwell, Marques Houston, Frankie J, TQ, Case, Lauryn Hill, Alicia Keys, Usher, Jaheim, One Twelve, Ray J, Brandy, Monica, Montell Jordan, The Isley Brothers, and countless others not count as real R&B?
i know a lot of people on this forum either wont read this because they dont care or they just dont like R&B...but imo R&B is the best kind of music out there so hopefully any other R&B heads will feel me on this. but seriously can you name one thing about any of the so called "Fake R&B Artists" out there that actually makes them fake?
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i hate it that B2K act real 'ghetto' but they've never seen a ghetto i think..
but B2K isn't R&B for me, it's pop. so is beyonce.
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Well I would split most of the artists you mentioned into soul and rnb.
I would consider R Kelly, Lauryn Hill, Alicia Keys, Jaheim, The Isley Brothers as soul artists. This is sort of stuff I like to listen to.
I personally think that the rest of them that you mentioned don't have enough soulfulness to be considered soul artists, and they are what I consider to be RnB. They will have the odd dope track, but I wouldn't ever buy one of their albums (ok, so I got TQ and Montell's first albums, but thats the g funk influence).
So to answer your question RnB is still around in large quantities, but Soul isn't as much as I think it should be.
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Mary J. still around. 8)
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mayne, i can sum rnb up in 1 word. "Aaliyah" if she was still alive RnB would still be as hot...
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dunno what's the general definition of RnB but if B2K are RnB then it's obviously them being black what makes them RnB cuz they basically do the same kinda music that white boy-groups do.. maybe they feature rappers a bit more often but other than that it's the same
whether it's real or not, I can't stand none of the cats that be in the charts and are considered RnB nowdays
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ok so let me prove you guys wrong then:
Jagged Edge - I Got It (feat. Trina) vs. B2K - Uh Huh
....hmm...both party beats, bout the same lyrics, only difference is jagged edges featured trina...so how is b2k pop?
lets try another:
Joe - Treat Her Like A Lady vs. B2K - Girlfriend
again...same lyrics, beats not much different...so how does b2k fit into pop?
oh yeah i know how they fit into pop....because they have more radio play...wow...
i imagine i could probably prove wrong just about any song you threw out there.
i dont agree that R&B & Soul should be split up...just like i dont think rap & hip hop should be split up...its all the same thing just with different styles.
and throwback...i am going to say this as nicely as possible:
i hate it that B2K act real 'ghetto' but they've never seen a ghetto i think..
just by the fact that you said i think proves you dont have any reason to say that. unless you've actually grown up w/ b2k then we dont know. chances are your probably right...i doubt they've ever been to a ghetto either...but then again i dont know...nor care. and i really dont care how they act...that has nothing to do with how they sound. but just to humor you. there was a guy on this board who went to school with lil fizz i believe...if he reads this then hopefully he'll give us the info on how they grew up.
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dunno what's the general definition of RnB but if B2K are RnB then it's obviously them being black what makes them RnB cuz they basically do the same kinda music that white boy-groups do.. maybe they feature rappers a bit more often but other than that it's the same
so in that same thought then white boys cant be R&B singers? because last time i listened to the solo justin timberlake album i thought wow...this guy is a damn good R&B singer. (if you've heard his album you'll know why i say that) the guy has more talent than most of the R&B singers out there...sure nsync sucks but him solo is dope.
or eamon...the guy is whiter than i am and he's got a hit on the charts right now.
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i dont like R&B, unless i wana fall asleep
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Artists like Floetry, Alicia Keys, Goapele, Anthony Hamilton, Erykah Badu, Bilal, Musiq, etc. They bring back the essence of Soul music. When I hear people like Ray J, Jagged Edge, B2K, Marques Houston, R.Kelly(now at least) etc. they don't really keep that "Soul essence." It's more Hip Hop influenced, which to me, is rather lame. Catchy, but lame.
As fro B2K being similar to White Pop acts. Lyric wise, of course. They sing about love etc. But, it's their style(harmonies etc.) and beats. I mean, you can tell the difference between a B2K beat and say N*Sync.
An artist like Frankie J. He was Justin Timberlake before Justin Timberlake. He used to make Latin Pop, but now is considered R & B.
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frankie j isnt pop to me...to me he's just keeping the older R&B styles alive...he reminds me of the older stuff like keith sweat, gerald levert etc...and then in some instances he reminds me of a latin craig david. all i know though is i can kick back and listen to his cd all the way through and not skip 1 track.
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Artists like Floetry, Alicia Keys, Goapele, Anthony Hamilton, Erykah Badu, Bilal, Musiq, etc. They bring back the essence of Soul music. When I hear people like Ray J, Jagged Edge, B2K, Marques Houston, R.Kelly(now at least) etc. they don't really keep that "Soul essence." It's more Hip Hop influenced, which to me, is rather lame. Catchy, but lame.
Exactly, there is an obvious difference between Soul and RnB.
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Who cares.
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I duz. I like the soulish R&B more most of the time.
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I'm not sayin only balcks do RnB, infact im sayin the opposite cuz to me it seems like many of them do the same music, yet white groups/singers are nearly always considered pop and black singin groups/singers are always considered RnB.. which is bullshit to me.. maybe the beats are often a lil different but a lot of all that shit sounds the same to me and I know for sure that I'm not the only one..
anyway that shit ain't even important to me cuz I don't listen to RnB.. singin I like is basically soul and a few artists like MJ
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homie its like this, if usher was white, he'd be king of pop........but since his black, u know these clowns aint gonna say that, instead justin is king of pop now......
anyways.....on the topic, which is kinda dope imo, even tho alot of shit has been spoken to imo.......
anyway, r kelly is dope, anyone who says r kelly aint rnb is stupid.......and he writes n produces alot of his own shit, i cant hate.....
usher, thats dope rnb......he brings that mj influnced style but he def adds sumthang onto it rather than justin who jus copies it with the best hitmakin producers around......
marques houston......his killin it write now, i dono much about his new album but his joints hittin hard everywhere in the clubs n he aint to bad i guess.......r kelly produced his joint by the way
micheal jackson.........well, c'mon man, aint no nigga fukin with him, bille jean alone shits on everyone else career alone.....in many genres
who else did ya list.........ummmmmm
alicia keys, man shes the most gifted chick out right now, she aint rnb though, shes a real soul sister
jodeci, back in the day......... they wer killin it,lol
lauren hill is sick, its jus y'all can relate to her, damn even niggaz findin it harder these days, but everyone knows her potential.....
truth is theres alot od DECENT shit being made, but like u said, only a few are keepin it to its roots n continuing, its jus took a wrong turn which can easily be taken like in hip hop, which most jus talk about the ice they be flexin
but only a few cats can say they doin sumthang for rnb which is good right now.......usher leadin the way........r kelly gotta stay away fromt he kids though
peace
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its not a racial factor dude...if it were then everyone would consider B2K & Destiny's child R&B and not pop. thats my point...theres like a rule saying that if it gets a ton of radio play it cant be R&B anymore which is sad. but then again you made a lot of sense w/ the usher-mj comparison.
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Hate all you want, but Beyonce has fuckin talent. "Me Myself & I" is a dope fuckin song.
I popped in Raphael Saadiq's "Instant Vintage" today, I seriously listened to it 3 times without skipping a track.
Good shit is still out there, you just gotta look for it.
I got my eye on this girl Kia Kadiri, she sings a couple hooks on Abstract Rude's new album, she has an amazing voice.
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I popped in Raphael Saadiq's "Instant Vintage" today, I seriously listened to it 3 times without skipping a track.
and thats the way most of it is...people just want to jump to calling shit pop because it gets radio play...you can bet if raphael saadiq was played on mtv 42 times a day people would hate on him too.
theres so many albums out there that are damn near perfect albums (one reason why i love R&B)....like as i type this im listening to jaheim's "Still Ghetto"...i love this album...have since it came out. songs like "Fabulous", "Me & My Bitch", "Lets Talk About It", "Put That Woman First", "Beauty & A Thug"...all dope shit.
then you could go to say...Marques Houston...another artist that gets hated on because he is played on the radio alot and is the man behind B2K. i can pop in his cd "MH" and listen to it all the way through. even "Clubbin" (feat. Joe Budden) doesnt ever get old for me...i think thats one of the most relaxing songs i've heard in a long time.
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Yeah but Luke, Raphael Saadiq has soulfulness, so no matter how much he would be played on the radio he'd still be amazing, but he is soul, not rnb.
To me it has nothing to do with radio play. People consider Jaheim rnb just cause "Fabulous" got a lot of radio play, but I would still classify him as soul on his newest album. On previous albums he wasn't really letting the soulfulness shine through, but on "Still Ghetto" its a straight soul album for me.
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lmao your first comment only works towards some people. some people dont like the soulful sound. like a dude i was talkin to last night...he likes what you would call R&B and hates what you would call Soul. saying no matter how much he's played on the radio he'd still be amazing is straight up dumb and you know that. lucy pearl got annoying as fuck after awhile, so did toni tony tone back in the day. if raphael saadiq put out a really hot single people would say the same shit about him.
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Well I would split most of the artists you mentioned into soul and rnb.
I would consider R Kelly, Lauryn Hill, Alicia Keys, Jaheim, The Isley Brothers as soul artists. This is sort of stuff I like to listen to.
I personally think that the rest of them that you mentioned don't have enough soulfulness to be considered soul artists, and they are what I consider to be RnB. They will have the odd dope track, but I wouldn't ever buy one of their albums (ok, so I got TQ and Montell's first albums, but thats the g funk influence).
So to answer your question RnB is still around in large quantities, but Soul isn't as much as I think it should be.
My thoughts exactly 8)
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lmao your first comment only works towards some people. some people dont like the soulful sound. like a dude i was talkin to last night...he likes what you would call R&B and hates what you would call Soul. saying no matter how much he's played on the radio he'd still be amazing is straight up dumb and you know that. lucy pearl got annoying as fuck after awhile, so did toni tony tone back in the day. if raphael saadiq put out a really hot single people would say the same shit about him.
No, saying he'd be amazing no matter how much radio play he got isn't dumb, because its true, if the single was soulful then I'd be pleased no matter how much love it got.
Lucy Pearl didn't get annoying either because they had soul, stuff which is rnb to me has no replay value at all, good for clubs maybe, but not for constant listening. Soulful artists have something special in their voices which sets them apart from rnb artists and gives them much more replay value.
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Artists like Floetry, Alicia Keys, Goapele, Anthony Hamilton, Erykah Badu, Bilal, Musiq, etc. They bring back the essence of Soul music. When I hear people like Ray J, Jagged Edge, B2K, Marques Houston, R.Kelly(now at least) etc. they don't really keep that "Soul essence." It's more Hip Hop influenced, which to me, is rather lame. Catchy, but lame.
As fro B2K being similar to White Pop acts. Lyric wise, of course. They sing about love etc. But, it's their style(harmonies etc.) and beats. I mean, you can tell the difference between a B2K beat and say N*Sync.
An artist like Frankie J. He was Justin Timberlake before Justin Timberlake. He used to make Latin Pop, but now is considered R & B.
^^^word
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lmao..,.you know damn well if they played raphael saadiq 1000 times a day and he had 4 million 12 year old girls screaming for him all over the place people woudl say "damn man saadiq is wack...remember back when he was a soul singer"....people put a double standard on artists and its sad.
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lmao..,.you know damn well if they played raphael saadiq 1000 times a day and he had 4 million 12 year old girls screaming for him all over the place people woudl say "damn man saadiq is wack...remember back when he was a soul singer"....people put a double standard on artists and its sad.
If he made a wack track to cater for that audience then yes I wouldn't be feeling that track, but if he continues making quality music that just happens to get a lot of radio play then he would still be just as dope. I can't really ever imagine 12 year old girls screaming over Raphael Saadiq.
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lmao..,.you know damn well if they played raphael saadiq 1000 times a day and he had 4 million 12 year old girls screaming for him all over the place people woudl say "damn man saadiq is wack...remember back when he was a soul singer"....people put a double standard on artists and its sad.
If he made a wack track to cater for that audience then yes I wouldn't be feeling that track, but if he continues making quality music that just happens to get a lot of radio play then he would still be just as dope. I can't really ever imagine 12 year old girls screaming over Raphael Saadiq.
the point is you may still love it but there are hundereds of thousands of people out there who would totally flip if it got popular. take an artist like linkin park for example. back when hybrid theory dropped they were unknown for months but the people that knew about them loved them. but then as soon as the album started getting tons of radio & video play everyone started to hate on them.
another example:
Blink 182...i know probably 50 people who own their first few albums and loved em...then as soon as blink released "All The Small Things" to the radio and it started getting played 1000 times a day they hated blink. even though their albums sounded exactly the same as far as style goes.
my point is some of us (as in me and you) are more conscious towards shit and really dont care if it gets play or not...but there are thousands of people who would drop their favorite artist in a minute if they heard them more than twice a day on the radio.
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Yeah I totally get what you're saying, and its pretty sad that is how a lot of people are. On the Blink thing though, there first two albums did have more of a cali-punk feel to them, there was definitely a switch up in style for the album with "All The Small Things" on it, but I feel that album was probably the highlight of their career.
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Yeah I totally get what you're saying, and its pretty sad that is how a lot of people are. On the Blink thing though, there first two albums did have more of a cali-punk feel to them, there was definitely a switch up in style for the album with "All The Small Things" on it, but I feel that album was probably the highlight of their career.
yeah actually i've really felt all of their albums but especially their last 3 (minus the concert album even though it was easily the funniest one i've ever heard)
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I don't think R&B ever really did exsist. You got your pop and your soul. I guess some artists you can consider a mix of both and that can be R&B.
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I don't think R&B ever really did exsist. You got your pop and your soul. I guess some artists you can consider a mix of both and that can be R&B.
what? dude what do you call Keith Sweat, New Edition, Blackstreet, Toni Tony Tone, Jagged Edge, R. Kelly, and the list goes on?
i dunno bout you but when i think of pop i picture britney spears, the backstreet boys, and n'sync.
when i think about soul i picture sade, marvin gaye, and al green
the other stuff is straight up R&B
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I don't think R&B ever really did exsist. You got your pop and your soul. I guess some artists you can consider a mix of both and that can be R&B.
what? dude what do you call Keith Sweat, New Edition, Blackstreet, Toni Tony Tone, Jagged Edge, R. Kelly, and the list goes on?
i dunno bout you but when i think of pop i picture britney spears, the backstreet boys, and n'sync.
when i think about soul i picture sade, marvin gaye, and al green
the other stuff is straight up R&B
EXACTLY
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I don't think R&B ever really did exsist. You got your pop and your soul. I guess some artists you can consider a mix of both and that can be R&B.
what? dude what do you call Keith Sweat, New Edition, Blackstreet, Toni Tony Tone, Jagged Edge, R. Kelly, and the list goes on?
i dunno bout you but when i think of pop i picture britney spears, the backstreet boys, and n'sync.
when i think about soul i picture sade, marvin gaye, and al green
the other stuff is straight up R&B
Jagged Edge and R.Kelly are a mix of both if you ask me so I guess I can agree with you in a way if you were following what I said.
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my point is some of us (as in me and you) are more conscious towards shit and really dont care if it gets play or not...but there are thousands of people who would drop their favorite artist in a minute if they heard them more than twice a day on the radio.
feel u on this. i even know people who loved Linkin Park fore that song ("One Step Closer" i think) got airplay, but ever since it did they been too commercial releasin singles off the same album lol. Same for 50, i know peeps who luved him when "Guess Who's Back" dropped and are now talkin bout how he got no talent
as for the original subject i pretty much agree with
stuff which is rnb to me has no replay value at all, good for clubs maybe, but not for constant listening. Soulful artists have something special in their voices which sets them apart from rnb artists and gives them much more replay value.
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my point is some of us (as in me and you) are more conscious towards shit and really dont care if it gets play or not...but there are thousands of people who would drop their favorite artist in a minute if they heard them more than twice a day on the radio.
feel u on this. i even know people who loved Linkin Park fore that song ("One Step Closer" i think) got airplay, but ever since it did they been too commercial releasin singles off the same album lol. Same for 50, i know peeps who luved him when "Guess Who's Back" dropped and are now talkin bout how he got no talent
as for the original subject i pretty much agree with
stuff which is rnb to me has no replay value at all, good for clubs maybe, but not for constant listening. Soulful artists have something special in their voices which sets them apart from rnb artists and gives them much more replay value.
im one of those 50 haters you described...now i never heard guess whos back but i used to bump the in too deep soundtrack all the time just for the 2 50 songs...i know he's got talent i just feel like he's not using it all. i've heard some shit he released before grodt and its not bad at all. he isnt using his talent which is why i dont like him.
as far as linkin park goes does it really matter if they release singles from the same album? if they are good songs it really shouldnt matter what album it comes from. and its not like they were all from the same album at the same time...they had a few other songs they released from other peoples albums (like the X-Ecutioners "It's Goin Down")
my point is though if the entire album is good enough to get millions of people psyched about the album then i say sure release em all as singles! just dont play the hell out of them...as far as playing the hell out of them though thats not linkin parks decision...people say oh well they get played so much on the radio now they sold out...thats stupid. they have no control over that.
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The thing with the Linkin Park situation is that people were still buying the singles even when it was like the sixth released from the same album. You would have thought that by about the fourth single anyone who was gonna buy their album would have bought it already, and therefore wouldn't need to buy the single as well.
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mayne, i can sum rnb up in 1 word. "Aaliyah" if she was still alive RnB would still be as hot...
dunno where u were staying, but in earth, Aaliyah was a decent artist like many others, but she wasnt running shit on the R&B tip... seemed like a nice person, and its a damn shame what happened, but thats the truth
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im one of those 50 haters you described...now i never heard guess whos back but i used to bump the in too deep soundtrack all the time just for the 2 50 songs...i know he's got talent i just feel like he's not using it all. i've heard some shit he released before grodt and its not bad at all. he isnt using his talent which is why i dont like him.
well then ure not one of the haters i described tho. i don't completly disagree with u on 50 havin been better before GRODT, cuz I like "Guess Who's Back" much more than GRODT too and also i was feelin him more as an MC back then. But the haters i described are now actin like 50's always been wack as fuck when they used to like him too back then, mainly cuz he's that famous now...that's what happens to many artists who blow up. if u say he's wastin his talent that's a point and u ain't even totally wrong IMO
as far as linkin park goes does it really matter if they release singles from the same album? if they are good songs it really shouldnt matter what album it comes from. and its not like they were all from the same album at the same time...they had a few other songs they released from other peoples albums (like the X-Ecutioners "It's Goin Down")
I think u got me wrong there. i was sayin people who liked "Hybrid Theory" before it got that much recognition are now (ok well, that was a year ago or sumthin, not now actually) complainin bout songs released as singles/videos even though they're off "Hybrid Theory" too, which is stupid cuz they used to say it's a dope album. that's what i was tryin to say
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^^ oh lol yeah i just misunderstood a little...but yeah its sad when people are like that...like seriously (im going to sound totally gay when i say this) i really dont care who it is...if i like it im going to listen to it...like today me and my girlfriend were watching TV and the movie Toy Story happened to be on the disney channel (dont deny it, you all know you felt that movie) and during a commercial a hilary duff music vid came on for some sad sappy ass song or something...and i really liked it. my point is if it sounds good to me then i could give a shit less if they sell 1 copy or a billion copies. the music doesnt change.
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^^ word it's that simple, yet too many people are too dumb to get it lol